In this episode Rich and Paul discuss Apple's new release of Vision Pro. They share their in-depth take on this new technology when it comes to productivity, accessibility, and even human connections. They also envision how it might mix with our sponsor - Aboard.

Hey, Paul, what's up?

Whoa, rich, where are you?

I I, I, hold on a minute.

I can't get this thing.

Oh my God.

Wait, okay.

You, you're now a giant web browser.

Can you see my eyes?

Yeah, but they don't look right.

Uh, okay.

I, I kind of spent $3,500 on these new goggles called Vision Pro from Apple.

Why do your eyes look like the eyes of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo?

My face hurts and I, but the good news is I can email in 360 degrees

Whoa,

and I'm in the California Rockies.

I gotta say, they don't look to, are they goggles?

Are they future go?

Are these, is this apple goggles?

Has a brand new paradigm in technology suddenly

been unleashed in our world?

Should we discuss this?

I can't figure out how to get 'em off.

Z and Ford Advisors Pro.

All right, here we go.

All right, so Rich, we watched the event, the event, the event.

It's five hours

Five Apple does not, they should create a product that will shorten

those fricking product release event.

Can I see something gross?

Yeah,

I.

I think about bad bodily functions at the Apple offices for some reason.

Oh, cuz it's all so sterile.

Well, it's just like, I gotta step, I'll be back, I gotta go to the

restroom and it's like 18 minutes going.

David, are you okay?

Uh, I don't know.

That was that crab that I had for lunch.

of all, it's a 75 minute walk to the nearest bathroom.

Second of all,

yeah, it's gonna, that, that fog,

do you know, like door?

If you, if a baby, you know, like if a baby fills its diaper in the

apple, like 12 sirens go off like it is absolutely like there is

no room for, for human moistness

No, no, no.

We can't have it.

Which is oddly, strangely depressing, but we're not, that's not what this is

about.

is.

It's a weird one because it used to be the least sterile of the consumer

companies, but it's very sterile now.

Like everything is like that's office and the environment, the way they

pitch, the way that their voices work.

There's no hair outta place.

It's a lot and it is grounded in what they believe is like if you design

well, then you elevate consciousness and it's actually, you touch something

emotional, but they've come full circle.

Such that, that like when you perfect anything right, the soul comes out.

Right?

And that's, that's just reality.

And look, I, I am, this sounds like I'm shitting on Apple, I own.

So many

No, I've got, I've got you.

And I have $4,000 of apple gear strapped to our bodies a lot of the time.

So listen, um, you know what though?

Hold on.

Tell

your take on it and I'll tell you mine,

I'll tell you.

First of all, I just want to go go back to the point that you're making earlier,

which is, and it's, the design is sterile.

It's very clean.

Apple actually used to, because computers were not an established category, they

made them accessible by making them cute.

The Mac was cute.

Cute is a

Oh, it said hello.

It had a funny little smile, and that actually stayed

for like 20 years, 25 years.

They kept it cute and it's just not cute anymore.

Everything is bevels and shadows and it, it's serious.

It's, it's very, you know, it can, it, it can be accessible and friendly and it can

bounce around a little bit, but there's no sense of it being like your happy pet.

Well, the, the days of experimentation and personality

I think have given way to.

A, you know, I find design systems in, I find no, I like design systems.

They're good for work.

We have a software product.

We use design

systems.

Sure.

I hate it when people talk about design systems,

Oh, that's a particular kind of conversation, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a, boy.

design systems is another way of saying, You will stay in these

lanes and when you stay in lanes, you know what you get end up with

Really boring network television.

Yeah.

And really lousy music.

Because you stay in lanes and Apple has gotten to a scale where the

design system isn't just a system.

The design system is, is is religious.

All like to the point where there is an unspoken set of ground

rules you're gonna adhere to.

all so every discipline takes itself so seriously.

And now that we've, you know, kind of been floating around the world a

little bit, we're allowed to laugh.

But like you, you, I remember seeing a tweet that was like, oh man,

dynamic island and name the designers like the best, whoever did it.

And

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Is that LeBron James of making a circle?

Like I

working title for, I Send this in a previous podcast was dynamic

whole, but they had to rename it to

do it, can't do it.

it to Dynamic Island.

rewind it.

Okay.

So Apple comes out with the new super goggles and you look into them and

there's like a 360 degree ultra high resolution screen, and you can interact

with those objects using your fingers, and it's like a whole new kind of

computer that you strapped to your head.

Uh, is virtual reality, but it's a little more focused.

Like desktop and productivity.

It's not super like gamey oriented, like the Facebook

It's not gamey.

It is, it

there's no metaverse.

That word didn't come up.

It didn't come up.

And it's not you strolling around some fantasy island.

It's not that or dynamic

fantasy island.

Um, it's not that.

It's more like a new.

Interface that's more sort of engrossing and whatnot, like

very big on on it goes kind of like translucent, you know?

Not really cuz you're strapped in there, but like it'll show you the outside world.

It shows people coming in the

that up and down, right?

You can say, okay, you know what?

This is an ugly collection of people.

Let me dial it up and be in a

But you were making a point earlier.

Okay, what's the name of it and the last word in particular.

It's called Vision Pro

Pro.

Right.

So it's 3,500 bucks.

Like they basically have come out of the gate saying it's not for you.

It's a they, they exactly.

Look, they are, they are one of the few companies where people

will go into debt to try the thing.

Like people go into debt to buy their iPhones.

That is a reality.

There's financing.

Actually, probably most FI iPhones are not bought outright.

They're financed through your mobile contract.

That's actually how people get them.

But they want 'em, man, and they know that these things cost two, $2,000 an up.

And they want 'em, right?

Uh, because they've created these incredible objects of desire, and so

they can do that, and it's not too shocking, but what are they doing here?

Right?

What they've done is, first off, it's not, it's not high margin,

by the way, because it's worth talking about what's in this thing.

It is.

the same, like a similar class of internals that's in a

they gotta, they gotta sell, they gotta sell like a million of these

before they start to make any money.

I mean, you think about how much they've invested.

Oh, on a, and on a per unit

basis.

Yeah.

It's not great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

there's, I think, seven cameras.

There's cameras that are looking down at your fingers.

have spent billions of dollars probably, or at least hundreds of

millions to bring this thing into reality.

Yeah.

Yeah.

it's billions of, so what have they done?

They were like, time to sell this and.

Keep going.

And what I mean by that is I think, you know, there is a prototype video

inside of Apple that just has what looks like a normal pair of glasses

doing the exact same thing of course.

And then what they're saying is we are 10 to 15 years away from technology

and battery technology and all of that, uh, being able to do what

well, I mean there's another element, which is that

they understand their own vertical integration better than anybody else.

Like they own the chip production.

They own, they own the, the lens manufacturing at this point, so

they can actually make a 10 year prediction and then drive certain

things along in a way that if they were dependent on only on Samsung.

very few companies can make that kind of a long game.

and.

And look, I mean, I'm, I'm wearing an Apple Watch right now and the reason I

got an Apple watch was my kids got Apple watches, and Apple watches now include

cellular, and this one has a little keyboard and we're, we're minutes away

from it having the, you know, the camera and, and just sort of like be, you know,

it's probably two generations from now.

It will be a, pretty much a sufficient phone, but really small.

Like it's not, you know, a sufficient smartphone.

Like we're, so they, what we see with Apple is that they're willing.

There is no absolute category destroyer like the smartphone in the world.

Like there's nothing where you go.

Okay.

Obviously.

So they have to, they have to do things where people kind of

roll their eyes a little bit.

Like when the iPhone came out, everybody's like, okay, okay.

But, but with the watch, everybody's like, oh, who cares?

And now it's, you know, a vast category.

So I think, you know, they're doing this with augmented reality.

If anyone can pull it off, et cetera, et cetera, you know, it'll be them.

And, but, uh, where, where did you land on it?

Did you want it?

No, I don't do well with them.

Uh, I, I, I, I had an Oculus.

Um, I will, I want to try it.

Absolutely.

Um, uh, do I want it?

Uh, no.

I don't want it.

Uh, I, I think I don't want it mainly because, um, the idea of leaving my, I

think, and I think, I think VR generally is facing this is the idea of leaving my

surroundings to take on an experience.

It's kind of cool for a little bit.

Yeah, but like an eight hour workday and they tried to push productivity as a thing

I just don't think they know what to do with it.

Right.

So they, it's, you know, they're showing people using a web browser in 360 degrees.

Yeah.

And let me tell you something, man.

Uh, most websites can barely work in two degrees.

Yeah.

Two dimensions,

Don't even mention mobile, right?

Yeah.

Look, I I, to that point, right?

Like, I'll, I'll tell you a use case.

That would be cool.

Not $3,500.

Cool.

Uhhuh, I'm, I'm trying to learn piano.

That's like a lifelong process.

It's very hard to play piano.

if, and I look down at the keyboard.

Okay.

And I watch where my fingers go.

Yeah.

And they usually go in the wrong place.

Yeah.

Okay.

the, the

the

goggles, whatever, that the Vision Pro could look at the keyboard and say,

here's where your finger, it could light up the keys on that keyboard.

And it could say, play here.

Whoops.

Bad note.

And that would be really interesting.

That's not, like I said, not 3,500.

500 maybe, right?

Like, you know, you can start to triangulate.

So there are a lot of use cases where it's like skill improvement, um, yeah.

You know, various aspects that are professional.

I could see doctors loving this thing, right?

Like so, but, so I, I think it has use cases.

That's why they put pro with it.

I will say something even more optimistic think

specialized training is interesting.

these things are gonna get really, really good and, you know, a lot of

surgeries, especially like more complex surgeries, are assisted with computers.

In fact, if you're doing sort of micro movements already

are, there already is software.

So what you're talking about here is something where, A surgeon of 30

years experience that's in Chicago can actually administer a procedure

Listen, buy

miles away.

It's pretty wild.

Right?

Let's pause and talk about

Buying a thousand of these for the hospital system is not even a thought.

Not even a thought.

Right?

3.5 million for this, if it works with the software as opposed

to the, you know, 2 billion we were gonna spend throughout the hospital.

Specialized software for, for medical procedures is insane.

The hardware is insane, but there's another, I think this isn't about me.

Um, uh.

Or do I want it?

Uh, no.

Is this a mass consumption product?

No.

What is it?

Is it a product that can open up a world for someone who's disabled?

I mean, oh my God, yes.

Right.

Uh, in

That's true because it uses eye tracking.

Very minimal motion.

Minimal motion.

Does it open up a world for someone who's, uh, elderly, who will not be able

to travel the two connecting flights to some location and experience it

or do anything really much anymore?

And so mobility is highly limited.

That is fascinating and interesting to me.

Um,

also, again, situations very often in which,

um, money finds its way, right?

Like it's just, that can be really worth it.

like wheelchairs are incredibly expensive.

Is this an augmenting accessible technology?

And actually I, a lot of people don't know this.

Apple's accessibility reputation's excellent.

They, they don't

go into your settings on your phone.

It is a world.

They've have teams of people who have done a lot

you don't have, if you don't have eyesight, you probably use an iPhone.

It's, it's surprising people don't think about it cuz they're so visual.

Yeah.

But they are inc.

Um,

no, it's a top.

I actually spoke to some of the team members on the accessibility team when

readability was making its way out to, they wanted to feature it in the

accessible apps section or whatever.

It's a priority.

So this, I think you're, I think you're right.

When they say pro, what they mean is doctors, people with special needs

communities where buying 500 of these to support the members of that

community could be really valuable.

And rich people who buy things and use them for 20 minutes.

one of the most important sectors of our economy.

Yeah.

Um, so let's go back to what they, I thought they kind of got wrong.

So look, you're a Guinea pig, 3,500 bucks.

Big bulky thing on your head.

I think the battery lasts two hours.

They're testing this on you and people will buy it because, my

God, it looks kind of cool to watch Spider-Man that way, I guess.

I guess,

I don't think they've solved.

you

know, Facebook is so awkward.

I, I think people find joy in, in, in seeing and experiencing

things together generally.

And Facebook, in its infinite awkwardness said, well, of course they're together.

Each of you will be a bottomless thing in the space, and now you're together again.

Apple didn't even

Now, you know what else Facebook

you're not seeing your

but also Facebook was like, oh, and, and they'll be like cryptocurrency.

Like they just couldn't, they just kept,

just kept going,

doubling down on everything that sucks until they're

like, and here's the product.

was terrible.

Right?

And so Apple was smart not to say, okay, um, you're not, you know, we're not

gonna have your husband avatar stroll on.

They didn't do that.

They were, but it, it looked incredibly sad and lonely, that woman on the couch.

And then there was another scene, which was just, so,

oh, the dad taking pictures of the birthday.

He's staring at them and he's so in one place and they're in another,

like they could have been a thousand miles

The mistake that Apple made here, right, is that there is no way for

someone who is new to this technology and hasn't experienced it, to look at

it and go, oh, that is a connective tool that will bring families closer together.

Really, you only see the gap once when somebody straps

something to their eyeballs.

And so they, they thought they could sort of push through that with little

narratives and marketing messages and humans just like, were like,

now you're wearing a blindfold.

I don't want to talk to you right

Exactly.

What they should have shown is grandma in Florida,

Uh,

talking to the grandkids in wearing the thing, because now

you're actually connecting people.

You know what the family can do for once is get on a plane and

go see grandma, but no, no, no.

We'll ship her the goggles,

but you know the OR, or the world of wonder at the Monterey Aquarium

where you're looking at the jellyfish, you know, and then you take 'em off and

and you're moving your head around to sort of

see the different angles.

Oh, yeah, It's all, look, is it a mass?

Are kids strapping these on at school for social studies?

No.

I I don't think they are.

I don't, I, I think as a, as a society, we've, we sort of strangely, in the most

subtle way, rejected Bluetooth headsets.

we did.

it became such a

and Google Glass

and Google Glass.

And I think what that was is just something sort of very subtle but

very profound is just us saying, uh, you're crossing a line.

Right?

Like Cyborg guy who does sales, there's this great, I'm on blue, sorry, I

was on Bluetooth like video on you.

There's a bunch of

you know what?

You know what it is?

You have to choose a place.

You can either be entirely inside World of Warcraft.

Or you can be at Thanksgiving dinner, but you can't play World

Warcraft at Thanksgiving dinner.

I think that's what this is, right?

And the kids are playing in front of you, dad.

And I know you want to capture the moment, but you don't

have to hide your whole face.

Yeah, you could use your, the, the camera on your phone.

Yeah.

And that would be just as good.

Paul, do you know who Nick Carr is?

Oh, yeah.

Um, very well known technology analyst and journalist.

very well known.

I've gone back and forth.

He sent me a signed copy of his book, which was very sweet.

Uh, I used to blog a lot, like 400 years ago, and he used to read my

blog and I used to read his, and I used to, we used to comment on each

other's blogs, on our blogs, which was

oh yeah,

only us two

Good Days.

each other, I think.

Blog Buds.

Oh, incredibly smart.

And he, he wrote a piece, I, I didn't know he was still writing.

I saw his tweet.

And he wrote a piece about the Vision Pro.

Uh, and he said this, in most situations, the smartphone still seems

more practical, flexible, and user friendly than something that, like

the Xenomorph in Alien, commandeer is the better part of your face, which I

thought was very sweet and endearing.

And I think what he's saying there is like, I need to see your face.

Can I just see your

I mean, That's

where we are.

Although at the same time, if you had shown, um,

Images of people lying in bed, staring at their phones together 20 years ago.

Sure.

We all would've been like, look at those sad zombies.

we're that we are, that we're still there today, but nonetheless we're used to it.

All right.

So, okay, rich, you and I have a product together.

It is a web-based product.

So I think this is a way to give kind of meta advice, which is, are you and I

going to react to this new form factor?

Now we are gonna launch a mobile app.

We have a desktop app, we have a, you know, so we're, we're in

on all the different kinds of

What product are you Talking,

oh, I'm sorry.

Did I not mention?

It's called a board.

You can get to it@aboard.com.

And it's a, it's a great way to bring together all the different things that you

like to do, uh, from the web and elsewhere and organize all your data with friends.

It's a good collaboration tool.

However, that's not why we're here.

We're, I'm just asking you a little product question.

Do you care about Vision Pro in the context of our web product?

They showed web browsers all through that thing.

I mean, I gotta be honest, a board's very visual.

It's card based.

Sure.

Um, I, I, I do envision, you know, um, uh, someone moving their hands around

and moving cards around and organizing them and throwing them to their friends.

Who am I to say no?

Yeah, but that's, that's just safari.

That's just a browser

fairness

to us, they only pretty much showed Safari and Keynote in the damn

frankly, this is the perfect product for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um,

that's a little for people that know Inside Joke there.

Rich Loves Keynote.

We should probably dedicate an

so much.

it.

Yeah.

I think Keynote is a keynote is a phenomenal prototyping

and I think I view, you know what I viewed as a communication tool and

I wanna say something to the team.

Sometimes I open Keynote, um, which is, Really,

you know, go ahead, take your jabs.

Right.

Executive wants to talk to his team with a keynote slide deck.

it's a st It's the stereotype too, but I love it cuz it's, it's keynote.

It's not PowerPoint cuz you're still cool.

You're cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're a cool guy.

Uh,

us

All right.

So if we're gonna, we'll support this ridiculous thing through the web.

Who

who are we to decide where people are and

Cook is gonna tell us what to do.

Yeah.

Yes sir.

Alright, great.

So, uh, that's our sponsor is a board.

We are also the co-founders in this strange, strange environment

in which we find ourselves.

Um, check us out aboard.com, check us out.

See audi ford.com.

Check out at aboard on Twitter.

We're, I'm tweeting more, I'm, I'm, I'm social media these days.

It's pretty cool.

Yeah, I'm having a good time.

We gotta talk about gift box, the tool that I used to make animated gifts one

Gift box.

Maybe we'll do a cool Apps

Yeah.

Keynote and gift box

Well Keynote everybody knows about, I don't

No, it's time.

It's time to go back in and teach people to love Keynote again.

it.

All right.

Have a wonderful week.

week.

That's not what this is about.

Yep.

Hello.

It's audi ford.com.

We'll talk to everybody soon and be well.