Is New Hanover County carrying too much debt—and is county government spending money on the right priorities?

Libertarian candidate Bob Drach joins Tyler Yaw and Chris Kellum to explain why he believes New Hanover County must take a harder look at its budget, debt, schools, homelessness strategy, and use of the hospital-sale endowment.

Bob is a longtime New Hanover County resident with a Stanford MBA, CEO experience, Peace Corps service, and years of local civic involvement—including running a youth basketball club. In this conversation, he explains what county commissioners actually control and why he views the county as a roughly $500 million organization responsible for public safety, public health, community welfare, and school funding.

Bob also shares why he identifies as a Libertarian, how the non-aggression principle shapes his political philosophy, and what he would prioritize if elected. The conversation covers county debt, the stabilization fund, post-COVID spending, education funding, homelessness, affordable housing, and the challenge of running as a third-party candidate.

Learn more about Bob Drach and his campaign: https://drach.us

What should New Hanover County prioritize first: reducing debt, supporting schools, addressing homelessness, or expanding affordable housing? Share your answer in the comments.

Subscribe to Whiskey & Wisdom for more honest conversations with the people shaping Wilmington and the Lower Cape Fear region.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction

00:52 Bob’s Community Roots

02:14 Moving to Wilmington

02:49 Whiskey Tasting Segment

06:34 What County Commissioners Do

09:18 Why Bob Is Running

11:00 Why Libertarian Values

13:42 The Case for a Third Party Locally

21:15 County Budget, Debt and the Endowment

25:10 Breaking Down the County’s Debt

26:29 Stabilization Fund Strategy

27:59 The Post-COVID Spending Spiral

30:09 Fixing Education Priorities

34:44 Student-Centered Funding

35:57 Debating Solutions to Homelessness

38:53 The Mathematics of a Two-Vote Election

40:19 A Whiskey Bar Detour

41:28 Advice to His Younger Self

43:58 Defining Success in the Race

45:23 The Nuance of Affordable Housing

47:34 Where to Find Bob’s Campaign

49:01 Final Thoughts

back to the Whiskey and Wisdom Podcast.

I am Tyler Yaw, and today I'm with my co-host, Chris Kellum, and our

special guest today is Bob Drach.

Bob is a businessman, financial professional, former educator,

and longtime New Hanover County resident, who is now running for

New Hanover County Commissioner.

He has an MBA from Stanford, has led companies as the CEO, served in the Peace

Corps, and has been involved in public service right here in New Hanover County.

But today, we wanna get past the campaign signs and talking points.

We wanna know who Bob truly is, why he's running, what he believes New

Hanover County is getting right, and where we think we need to do better.

We'll talk what it actually looks like to run as a Libertarian in a race

dominated by Republicans and Democrats.

Bob, welcome to the Whiskey and Wisdom Podcast.

Yeah.

Well, thank you.

It's my pleasure to be here.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Yeah.

So that was kind of a quick intro to you.

Was there anything that I missed that you were like, "You know what?

Everyone needs to know this about me"?

No.

But it, it's quite funny.

I was first told that I had- need to have a one-minute pitch.

Right.

Right?

And so it started out about a minute and a half.

Mm-hmm.

And I squeezed it down to a minute.

I think you just did that in about 43 seconds.

Right.

So that was really- Yeah.

You know, so it g- we honed it, we honed it down.

Yeah.

But there are a couple other things I'll point out.

I, I actually found that I have a bigger network in the community

than, than I give myself credit for.

Yeah.

Okay.

I ran a basketball club here in town for when my kids were growing up.

Oh, yeah.

And then after they left, we continued the club.

We grew it till we had about f- about five teams going per year.

Oh, wow.

We did that over the course of several years.

And someone pointed out to me that we've had over 500 kids go through that program.

Oh.

My goodness, yeah.

And just the other day I, I was at an event and someone recognized

me, and I said, "I'm, I'm sorry.

I-" Yeah.

I was like, "Oh, yeah, my, my son was, you know, Clay- Clayton was on your team."

And we had a great conversation and r- you know, relived some of the

memories of the kids playing ball.

Oh, that's neat.

And all the kids are grown up now, they're contributing members of society.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So I don't think I had much to do with that, but it was- Yeah.

it was a, a fun thing.

And there, there are other things like that that, that I've got

connections in the community and they're, you know, they're coming

back now to, to be recognized.

Nice.

Oh, wow.

How long have you lived in the area for then?

So, in 2004 I moved.

I actually started looking in 2003.

Okay.

Okay.

and I got a job in the area about the end of 2003.

Okay.

And we picked a place down the toward Carolina Beach.

Mm-hmm.

Which was quieter then.

Right.

That's true.

My commu- I, my work our, our factory was up in North Chase-

Oh,

yeah … on the other end of the city, so that's about a, for those

who know it, used to be a 25-minute drive, and now is an hour drive.

Big,

easy.

Oh.

And so I've kind of gone through that whole growing,

growth cycle with Wilmington.

Oh, wow.

Before we get too far into it, Chris, what are we sipping on today?

So we are sipping on a limited production whiskey.

So it's Wily Whiskey from Poor Decisions Distillery- Mm-hmm … in

a random little town of Pennsylvania.

I cannot- Which one?

… pronounce it because there's way more letters than my

brain can read at the moment.

Is it Montoursville?

Yeah.

Okay.

It's, so that distillery is actually, like, a half mile down the road

from where my aunt and uncle live.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm like there's- However- There's an extra letter from

what my brain was trying to read

yeah.

The, the other thing about it- Yeah … even though it is pretty close to a

half mile, maybe a mile, there's so many mountains and hills in that area,

you cannot walk to it from their house.

Okay.

I mean, I guess you could, but your legs would hurt a lot.

I, I mean, when you're in…

There's certain parts of this country where I'm like,

"Yeah, I'm not walking that."

Yeah, just the driveway to get to that distillery is, like- … straight up.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah.

I'm good.

Don't need to…

I'll drive.

Yeah.

I mean, luckily I had my truck, but the one we got, I think it's 100 and- Five

five proof.

Mm-hmm.

So super cool.

Something we have not tried yet.

Nope.

So we're gonna take a sip, and we'll get your opinion, Bob.

Absolutely.

I'm looking forward to this.

That's pretty good

It tastes even lighter than a 105- Yeah … to me I mean, I can

definitely t- taste young, but not like- Mm-hmm … super young.

But it's a relatively new distillery, so that does make sense.

Oh, yeah.

Y- young I agree with, and it's…

Actually, I found it a little bit sweet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know why that is, but I like that.

But not overly sweet.

Like, we had a maple, Yeah, it's not maple … we've done maple- No … two

or three times, and like, sometimes it's just so saturated with, with

that, like, maple flavor, and this is just, like, it's a nice sweetness.

Almost toffee.

I can get that.

So I approve of it.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for letting me share in this.

I'm not- Yeah … typically a, a whiskey taster or drinker.

Yeah.

this may be a little bit off topic, but- Yeah … i, I took a lot

of interest in the details of Dolly Parton's life when I was reading

the, the biographies, of course, on her- Right … at, at her death.

And was particularly interested in, you know, she was unapologetic about

her family being moonshiners and- Yep.

Yeah … you know, that's part of putting food on the table for a large family.

And I was thinking when I was reading that, I'd, I'd like to try some moonshine.

Yeah.

Cool.

So maybe this is close.

I don't know.

Well- … this is a nice step towards moonshine, but most of…

Like, if you're thinking a traditional moonshine, it's

not gonna have this mouth feel.

Mm-hmm.

I won't say who it was on the podcast, 'cause I don't want to get him in

trouble, but there was a person who came on the podcast, I believe you know them.

And this particular person brought us some homemade whiskey, rye whiskey.

Hm.

Awesome.

Yeah.

It was, it was actually pretty good.

Yeah.

I, I was pretty impressed by it.

That wasn't, isn't- That was a while ago … true.

Well, we've been doing this- We've been doing this for a while, so Yeah.

It's, it's kind of crazy how long we've been doing it.

That we've been able to, like, work with people and have people on the podcast

during multiple, like, voting cycles.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

'Cause, like, originally when we started this I was like, "Oh, I don't know how

long we're gonna go," and now we've gone through three different- Yeah

Periods of people needing to vote.

All f- all for different things.

And it's, it's great to see the change in the community and, like, the fact

that there's people that are stepping up and, like, wanting to do something-

Mm-hmm … a little bit different.

Which leads me to you, sir.

Thank you.

so as a newbie adult I like to call us, 'cause we're under 40.

We don't, we don't get a ton of voting knowledge prior.

You are running for county commissioner.

Can you tell, like, our audience, like, kind of what that would entail

when, like- Well, yeah … when we hope you get the position?

Yeah, absolutely.

County commissioner is actually one of the more recognizable

activities in, in government, right?

We all pay federal taxes and state taxes- Mm-hmm … and we hear about

stuff in Raleigh and Washington.

But the stuff we really care about is done here in the county.

And it's paid for through property taxes and, and sales tax that's collected.

Okay.

The county budget is about half a billion dollars, about $500 million.

So it's not a small thing, right?

No.

and they spend money mostly in three areas: public safety, public

health and welfare, and schools.

Okay.

So it's about one-third, one-third, one-third.

And there are lots of needs in the community, a lot of competing interest.

And, The county commission is the one charged with kind of making the trade-offs

and trying to make those decisions.

And as we go through the talk today, we'll, we'll talk about affordability-

Mm-hmm … and taxes play a big part in affordability, and then also the services

that we all want from our government.

And you know, there's never enough money to meet all of the needs of the community.

Never.

So then how do you figure that out?

Well, you elect representatives to help you figure that out.

So that's, you know, that's kind of the nuts and bolts of

what the county commission does.

Another way to look at the county commission is that the

county is a corporation, right?

$500 million corporation, and it collects revenues, tax- y-

with taxes we talked about.

And it's got like any other corporation, it's got a board of directors, and then

it's got an executive and operation-

Mm-hmm

… Bob: group.

So the county commission is like the board of directors.

Eh.

Okay.

Okay?

You got five county commissioners, and reporting to the five county

commissioners is a chief executive.

They hire an executive in the county.

And the executive develops an organization that, that delivers the

services you know, across the the need, the needs of the community.

So, it's really helpful to think about the county as a corporation.

Really, every government is a corporation.

Right.

and so we're the board of directors, and we're trying to steer policy.

We're not gonna change the day-to-day.

We're not gonna intervene with Child Protective Services or,

you know, necessarily b- be on the front line of every service.

But we will be monitoring, and when we get feedback from the community

that things need to change, we try to adjust policy, make sure the staffing

is there or the budget, or reduce the staffing and the budget because that's

how you make the thing work, right?

Yeah.

Right.

Well, with that being said, what made you wanna run for county commissioner?

Yeah.

Well, I've always been involved in, in public service at some level.

Right.

In your introduction, you mentioned I was a Peace Corps volunteer.

Yep.

So here I am, a, you know, a 20-year-old kid in college, and I'm already

thinking, "Well, you know, what's, what's my obligation to society?"

Mm.

I o- I grew up in a time the Vietnam War, and I…

Not my generation.

My generation that, it was not drafted.

Right.

Or, or, or my year, but a year or two prior, yes.

Oh.

Oh, wow.

So, I knew people faced with that, that decision, and many people

honorably went off to, to serve in, in the Vietnam War, and I have huge respect.

They were, they were trying to do what they thought was right for the country.

Mm-hmm.

but since I was not drafted, I'm still thinking about, "What's

my role in national service?"

And that's part of the reason for going to the Peace Corps is you're

a little bit- Okay … altruistic.

You're a little bit, you know, "This is, this is a way that I can

give back to my community before I launch the rest of my career."

Yeah.

And so, that's not all of it of course, but- that's

always been part of my DNA then.

And so we've talked about running a basketball club in the city-

Mm-hmm … serving on the New Hanover Board of Equalization and Review.

I've always tried to have some involvement in you know, local organizations

in addition to my business career.

So then what happened, fast-forward, the end of my business career, I

had a successful company here in Wilmington with a, with a good

group of partners and employees.

Yeah.

We were able to sell that to, to the next owner and move on.

I was able to spend a lot more time with my, my wife and

family, which was a blessing.

Very

nice.

And I was also able to turn my attention back toward public

service, community service.

Yeah.

So I've, I've…

this is one manifestation of that really.

Very nice.

So I guess the next question that kind of-

Yeah, I guess the next question that I guess have to beg to ask is how'd

you learn about being libertarian, and what made you wanna join that party?

Well, good.

Thank you for asking about libertarian.

So I, I mentioned I was 20 years old.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

And I was in that social environment.

I was born in 1961, so I was- Okay … still pretty young in the '60s,

but I was kind of a kid of the '70s.

Yeah.

So in that social environment I, I…

Not only did I have to register for the draft, I had to register to vote.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, when you register to vote, you get a form

and it says Democrat, Republican.

Well, libertarian was an option.

So I looked at it a little bit.

Libertarians believe in something called the non-aggression principle.

Mm-hmm.

you know, s- some people say libertarianism in a nutshell

is, "Don't take my stuff, and don't hurt other people."

Right?

So the non-aggression principle, but don't hurt other people.

You know, the, the…

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose- Right … is

another way to say that, right?

Oh.

So, I believe strongly in that.

I believe in fiscal responsibility.

One of the- Mm … big things in that timeframe was the

emergence of, of the drug culture.

Oh, yeah.

And one thing I saw about drugs was i- it's, it's what they f- often

they call the victimless crime.

Well, that changes a little bit if it's an addictive drug.

Yep.

Right.

Right?

That's a problem.

But this war on drugs was a war on victimless crime, and

causing a lot of disruption.

Mm-hmm.

And the people that were making money were the smugglers, the

mar- the narco- Yeah, right

terrorists were making all the money.

And so just from my business perspective, I've always kind of

had that business view as well.

I'm like, "This, this doesn't make good sense.

It's not good for society.

It's, it's the wrong people are making the money."

Right.

And you know, there's…

it's a victimless crime.

So you can go down the list.

They have a lot of libertarian positions, which I, I tend to agree with.

Mm-hmm.

You know, another big libertarian position is, is

it's my body, it's my choice.

That really became a a big issue in the, in the recent

COVID- Mm-hmm … experience.

And my wife is a physician.

She explained to me why the COVID vaccine's a good

thing, so I understand that.

But there are a lot of people who were concerned about taking a, a

vaccine which was experimental.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, vaccine we'll put in air quotes.

We can do that- Right … because it's different.

And people have reasonable objections to that.

Yeah.

And I, I think that my body, my choice is probably…

You know, there are a bunch of public health implications there, but I think the

libertarians largely got that one right.

Yeah.

So we can go down, you know, we keep going.

We'll…

Please ask me more questions, but that's a, a smattering of, of, of ideas for you.

Yeah, so I guess to kind of take both of those questions that we had

prior and kinda mesh them together, what makes running as a libertarian different

than your counterparts as Republicans and Democrats for county commissioner?

Well, there are so many good reasons.

And w- it, it's a fun election because- Mm-hmm … I was looking at

the statistics yesterday with, with someone who's helping my campaign.

In the last 12 months in New Hanover County, 80% of the

voters registered unaffiliated.

Wow.

So about 10% Republican and 10% Democrat.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

The Republicans are, I mean, the Libertarians are just slightly up.

But it's, People f- people want something different.

A poll by, I think it was Elon University last year, 65% of the

respondents says there's a need for a third party in American politics.

Right.

So the plurality of voters, in fact a majority of voters out

there, are looking for alternatives.

Mm-hmm.

Now, Libertarian may or may not be your, your choice, but again,

Libertarian is- ism is, like, do no harm.

First do no harm.

Yeah.

So it's not a bad place to start.

Certainly in this election it's the only alternative to the, you

know, red team or the blue team.

And people have two votes.

They, they should pick an independent-minded, you know,

qualified candidate who's gonna work in their interests.

Mm.

And they may have a favorite incumbent or they may have a favorite

party that that isn't Libertarian.

Mm-hmm.

And th- they can cast a vote there.

They should cast a vote there, but they should also, gi- given the polling we've

seen, given what the people's demonstrated preferences when they register to vote-

Right

I'm the candidate for those people.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

Everything…

It's probably the best way to do it when you have two votes.

What do you have to lose, really?

Yeah.

Outside Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, and it does h- it helps you guys out too as a third party if

you're getting enough votes, that you guys'll get more funding to help, you

know, spread the love in the future too.

Because I agree, like, if the majority of people are tired of the two-party

solution, the best way to get a third party or even a fourth party involved

is for us to be able to give them the funding so they can actually,

you know, run proper campaigns.

Yeah.

That- that's a good point, but we don't need a lot of funding, and

that's part of the message, right?

Okay.

Right.

It…

In the last election cycle for county commissioner- Mm-hmm … I think

the winner spent over $200,000.

One of the three people that were elected, it's, it's five people on

the commission- Yeah … so three one cycle, two the next cycle.

One member that was elected spent $20,000.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's Stephanie Walker, who's currently on the board.

Mm.

And that's all it takes.

So you can go out and spend a big chunk of money, or you can connect with voters.

You can talk to their, to, to their issues.

You could be good, honest, hardworking person who's just doing the key

things that are required to get the message out to the community.

So it's not, it's not about the money as much as it's about changing politics.

Mm.

I like that.

It's a it's, it's so easy.

It's so funny, really.

We t- we talked about how there's demand for a third-party candidate.

Mm-hmm.

But I think a lot of that demand are people that are busy with their lives.

Yeah.

People are very busy, and it's a little bit of a risk to vote for

another candidate, and it's also when people are busy and they're

frustrated or disillusioned

They don't vote

Mm-hmm

They don't vote.

So the f- the 50 and over crowd in New Hanover County is gonna have the

biggest say in who gets elected, but the f- the 50 and under crowd are

the most number of votes out there.

So part of what we need to encourage people to do is get out and vote.

Yes.

And you might not do that because you're disillusioned with the two major parties.

I mean, the, the Senate, the Senate campaign is g- you know, already

taken up the airwaves and sucking- Yeah … all the oxygen out of the room.

The the national political scene is really disheartening.

But we have one election in New Hanover County where you have a

choice of a qualified independent kind of middle-of-the-road candidate.

I'm endorsed by the North Carolina Forward party.

Yeah.

That's, that's a group that's focused- Yeah … on, you know, data-driven

decision-making in government, and they've gone out of their way to seek

out middle-of-the-road kind of candidates across the, across the political spectrum.

So if you wanna change politics- Mm

if you're disgusted with what's going on-

Right

… Bob: here's a small thing you can do.

Vote for Bob Drock.

And if a Libertarian holds the balance of power in the New- in the

New Hanover County Commission, the local Democrats and the ro- local

Republicans are gonna s- look at that.

Mm-hmm.

And it's gonna change t- their messaging, it's gonna change how they

g- how they interact with voters.

Mm.

And it's gonna trickle up.

Believe me, the, the, the Democrats and Republicans in North Carolina

do not wanna have any way, shape, or form of a third party.

Yep.

You know, they, the recent voting bill, they tried to

eliminate ranked-choice voting.

Yep.

And they've tried to eliminate candidates paying people to collect

signatures for ballot access even.

Right.

I mean, they eliminated…

They were, like, there used to be, like, six or seven parties in North Carolina.

Mm-hmm.

93.

They eliminated all but f- all but four of them, and the Greens, they

only kept them on, they used a technicality- Yeah … because it

was the Republicans hoping to split Democrat votes by including the Greens.

Oh.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, you know, o- o- of all the other reasons, why should

I vote for a Libertarian?

Well, because you can, because the ma- the two, the two parties have tried to

eliminate every other option for you.

Mm-hmm.

So if you're happy with that.

Anyway.

Yeah.

No, I agree.

Sure.

I agree with that completely.

I think it would, it'd be a good rude awakening for them if there's a stro-

shot across the bow saying, "Hey, we're so disillusioned with what's going on here."

And to kind of, kind of bounce off what you said about the, the Senate election

that's going on right now too It's, it's sickening to me when, especially

when you have two candidates that I'm pretty sure most people don't really

like that well, that the only way that each party thinks they can win is to

disillusion the other side's voters.

So if you watch any of the commercials that come on or get, or read any of the

things that come across, it's never, "Vote for my candidate 'cause it has

the great ideas," but it's, "Look how terrible the other person is."

Yeah.

So, like, clearly there's an issue going on here.

Yeah.

Well, a- and, I mean, that plays two ways, right?

Right.

It fires up the base it puts fear in people, and for f- for the people that

stay at home, it keeps them at home.

Yeah.

They're like, "This is…

It's, it makes…

I, I need to take a shower after watching those commercials," right?

Mm-hmm.

It's, I'm just not gonna participate in that.

And I do have, actually, some friends in the Libertarian Party who've stepped

back, and they said, "You know, we used to view it as a alternative, you know, a

way to voice our dissatisfaction- Mm-hmm

with the major parties, but we're, we're just not gonna participate at all now.

We just don't think that's…"

So there are people who are there.

So, you know, here we are reaching out to the- Yeah.

Yeah … to those people saying "Let's make a difference."

Oh,

yeah.

I like it.

And talking about making a difference, I mean, you have a, quite a few priorities,

and I know your, I think your slogan, to improve the financial management and bring

an independent perspective to the board.

And I, I think across the country for sure is, and especially locally, working

on how well we're spending that budget and managing the debt and kinda like

just giving the community the ability to grow and do things in a better

perspective I think that's, I think your priorities are in the right spot.

Yeah.

It's…

Thank you very much.

I, you know, I'm a certified management accountant, and that's that le- like

makes me look at things financially.

Mm-hmm.

We talked about that a little bit earlier also.

But right now 12% of the county budget is debt service.

Now, that includes principal and interest on the debt.

Mm.

Okay.

But it's a pretty big chunk of, you know, the operating budget.

Debt is something that people are starting to get more aware of.

At a national level, the federal budget is also over 10% debt service.

Yeah.

That's just interest.

Interest.

Yes.

And it's crowding out other spending.

It's the biggest single line item other than you know, social security and

Medicaid on the, on the, on the budget.

So, people are starting to get aware of it.

And we all complain about affordability.

We hate the inflation we've seen over the last six years.

Mm-hmm.

underlying all of that is poor financial decisions.

And so we-- this is a county job.

It's not state or federal.

We're not addressing those problems.

But we can set the baseline of having the most well-run financial

county in North Carolina.

It's, it's already run well, well in several ways, but they've made financial

mistakes over the past four or five years.

Most notably is in the sale of the hospital and the

establishment of the endowment.

You know, think I- I'm on record as being a critic of the endowment.

Now, we have the endowment.

We want the endowment to spend their money on- Mm-hmm … for the benefit

of the citizens of New Hanover County.

Yeah.

We want the endowment to do well.

Right.

But that's because we set it up, and r- I think rather than taking that 1.2

billion, which is now, like, $1.5

billion and hiding it from taxpayers, stuffing it away so taxpayers in

the county can't direct it, and instead of doing that the bulk of

that money should've been spent for the benefit of the county.

G- going back to the debt, w- at a minimum, they could've just

paid off all the capital expe- you know, all the loans of the county.

Sure.

Have zero debt, and now in your annual operating budget, you'd have 12% more

that you could put toward better schools, teacher pay, s- public services s-

public safety, the homeless, all of the issues that we're scrambling to find

money for, and going to the endowment and trying to f- figure out what their

rules are and structure a program that maybe gets some of that money.

We could be spending that.

The voters could, could elect pe- commissioners who committed to

certain programs, and we could im- implement them immediately.

So, I c- I mean, I can go on and on and on about what a, what a

terrible decision that was, and you know, I'm, I'm a libertarian.

I believe in property rights.

I believe that civil, civil institutions are the way to implement public policy.

I believe in freedom of association, so let's work together.

Let's choose our churches.

Let's choose our benevolent societies.

Let's choose where we give our donations in order to make our communities better.

I don't believe in socialism, and, you know, I think the endowment, you take 1.2

billion taxpayer dollars, you put it in a fund that doesn't respond

to taxpayers, and you say, you know, "You group of elite people decide how

to best spend that f- to all of our benefit," that's, that's like socialism.

It's just crazy.

That's a good point.

I, no, w- why, why would anyone do that?

So anyway, that's my take on it.

Oh.

How much debt dollar-wise does New Hanover County have?

Do you know?

So I, I don't know the number exactly.

I think if you back up from the 12% on debt service- Ah … you get somewhere

around a billion dollars in debt.

Yeah.

They, I know they keep the the, the average term of the debt about 10 years.

Mm.

So you might go to, you might go to market with a bond at 15 or 20 years.

Sure,

yeah.

But they're working to keep that lower.

Okay.

And you know, just a small financial thing, I think you

guys have a financial background.

The the average interest earned by the county is lower than the

average interest paid by the county.

Mm.

Interesting.

Yeah, that doesn't usually add up too well.

Yeah.

So, you know, there's a guy that's very famous on

talk radio the financial guy.

He can help…

Dave Ramsey, I think the guy's name is.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You know, his big thing is, you know, pay off your debt Sure, have a rainy day fund.

You know, do a few things Right But pay off your debt, 'cause

that's how you build wealth.

That's, that's how you get successful in, in, in the real world.

So it's just kinda crazy to me.

I mean, everyone who's financially sophisticated knows you don't, you don't

collect interest at 3% and pay it at 5%.

Right.

Yeah.

But I mean, there are some considerations there.

There's a thing.

When they set up, when they set up the endowment, they took

$300 million, and they created this revenue stabilization fund.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

So $1.2

million, they locked it up so taxpayers can't touch it, but 300 million, they

kept it for the benefit of taxpayers.

And there was an early run on that money to, to try to use it for

maybe s- not the best purpose.

So then they went back, and they said, "Okay, we're gonna require four votes from

county commissioners to spend this money."

Okay.

And so mostly we've got that $300 million locked up.

It'll be spent on high priority projects that have four votes.

That's not a terrible thing, but what I would advocate is spending

that money as fast as possible.

And if we don't have $300 million in good projects for the county, remember,

our budget's 500 million a year.

Mm-hmm.

300 million's a lot.

Right.

pay down, pay down a bunch of debt.

You know, pay down 200 million of debt.

Free up a couple percent of the operating budget, and now we can start

spending that on schools, and fire, and public health and safety, and

you know, spend it in the operating budget instead of servicing the debt.

And it, it doesn't change the status quo very much.

Just, it's just financially smarter to do.

It enhances the status quo.

Yeah, so, I, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm getting way into the weeds.

No.

For, for everyone who doesn't care about the finances- … we probably need to move

on, but I get wound up about this stuff.

Yeah.

So if you think it's important, yeah.

Yeah.

Something that I can't go too far into, I'm not talk- not allowed to

talk too much about on the podcast.

Anyway.

There was, this is more, like, federal kinda spending, but I was reading and

heard that if we were having the same amount of spending pre-COVID, 'cause as

we know, the government spent a ton of money during COVID, and they said it was

just because of the emergency, and we're only gonna spend it because of this.

But just like any other normal person in the world, once you get money, you

don't wanna give it up, and you don't wanna get less of it the next year.

Mm-hmm.

So that emergency spending has continued on.

If we would have stayed at somewhere close to the trajectory we were at

in 2019, the United States would be running at a surplus right

now Isn't that absolutely wild?

It is, it,

it is- Like

… Bob: it's stunning.

It's stunning.

Y- you mentioned a key point there.

People, it's temporary, people but people get used to it and

they don't wanna give it up.

Right.

And that's a huge problem.

But we were talking a little bit earlier about how I'm, I'm from a

different generation than you guys, and I, I gotta s- try to be polite.

This is- … public, right?

But our generation has not treated your generation very well, and I think

the people in my generation who are spending money that your generation

has to pay back It's reprehensible.

Mm-hmm.

And we have to as a society, especially as anyone who doesn't desperately need

that money, that social welfare that's being paid out to everyone right now-

Right

they need to stand up and say, "This is wrong."

And there are lots of good ways to, to get back on the s- the spending

trajectory that we used to be on.

A lot of those waves w- won't dramatically affect a lot of people.

It, it will take some people making sacrifices, but it's exactly the people

that should be making those sacrifices.

Right.

Y- y- the 60 and older who've done well in this society.

I'm, I'm not saying make them pay.

I'm saying don't give them social welfare benefits that

are taking money from the youth.

Right.

It's just crazy.

But anyway, that's a little extreme, but it's obvious.

Good point,

though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But pointing to that as well is, like, taking this funding and

leading it back into education.

I've, like, I know plenty of teachers 'cause I've grown up in that community,

and I know schools are having less teachers, less teacher aides, like, less

ability to actually educate kids, which then has people, "Hey, I need to pull my

kid out and put him in private school."

And I'm like, well, that's the point of our taxes is that it should be

paid, and you should take use of that.

Yeah, so yeah, redeploying the money to education-

Yeah … absolute f- fabulous idea.

I was our s- whole society needs a, a increased e- emphasis on education.

Mm-hmm.

The, I was reading a great article about how test scores have

declined for the last 10 years.

Yeah.

It predates COVID.

Yeah.

It predates cell phone apps.

But one of the things the authors were suggesting is that our society

has de-emphasized the importance of excellence in education.

Mm.

Subtly, right?

They, they…

There was a big push 20, 30 years ago for No Child Left Behind.

That was tied with testing, and y- you had end of term testing, and you had a

lot of pressure on teachers and students to perform on the tests year after year.

And that's, they've started pulling back on that stuff.

And I, a lot of this is well-intentioned, right?

We don't wanna, we don't wanna put kids in a situation that's

gonna cause mental anguish.

We want them to excel.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Yeah.

But having an expectation for, for kids is a part of that.

So our public education needs to crank up the expectation.

We need to fund public education so that, If they're, they can a- achieve

that excellence that they demand.

But we also should allow s- t- parents who think they can provide a better

education for their kid through a different channel, you know, we need to

allow for that also, and that's part of what drives the demand for excellence.

We, you know, do either of you have kids in schools right now?

I do.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you should be talking to your teachers and going to the PTA

meetings and demanding excellence.

Mm-hmm.

And a lot of schools step up and do that.

There are, you know, so many fabulous teachers.

You know, you're from the educational community.

I know you- Mm-hmm … you know a few of them.

Yep.

they will step up.

If teachers, if parents go to the, don't show up to the, to the meetings or parents

tell their teachers, "Hey, my kid's got too much homework," maybe the class

gets less, you know, less expectations.

So as parents, you, you gotta drive that.

You gotta drive that.

I one of my cousins is in the education system up in PA, and it's kind

of on to what you said except kind of flipped a little bit, that there's so

many parents these days that are trying to diminish what their kids are learning in

school or trying to get ahead of things.

She said, "I spend more time," like when she should be planning for lessons,

responding back to teach- teacher emails, be like, "Why did my kid get

a zero on this homework assignment?"

Well, they didn't turn in the homework assignment- Yeah … so

that's why they got a zero.

Like she's spending so much time with these parents that

are just, like, defending their kids and not doing anything.

It's absolutely wild.

Yeah, you, you hear anecdotes like that, and I, I, I, I don't know if that…

I don't wanna expand it too much.

Right.

I will say that I was a teacher in Baltimore City Schools.

Mm.

very difficult school system.

I taught in poly- at their Polytechnic School.

Mm-hmm.

I was a physics teacher.

Okay.

They brought me in t- as, as a physics teacher because the the,

Full-time teacher went out on l- on a, a leave that was gonna end

to, go through the end of the year.

So they basically had five, six months, and they wanted someone

who knew physics to teach.

Mm.

Bless the the, the chairpersons, you know, they didn't want to

just put a s- park sub in there.

Yeah.

So, I was a, a young teacher.

I made some mistakes, but I felt good about the relationship I had with my

students and, and, and driving them to learn and, and a curiosity to learn.

I got a bunch of stories from there, but I'll just tell this quick one.

We had a, a parent-teacher day.

So we set up, you know, 10 seats in the back for parents.

I had f- like five classes cycle through, and I had two parents come in all day.

Oh, wow.

and this was at one of the better, better schools in the city.

Mm.

So, I know it's tough.

You know, parents have jobs.

Parents are busy and, and, and working.

But r- really, we, we, we need to demand as much as we can from

our kids and from our schools.

And do it in a, do it in a loving way, and doing it with this- Sure … you know?

There's this concept called student-centered funding, and it means

d- different things to different people.

But at its core it says the dollars follow the student.

So if you have a student who comes from a disadvantaged home and has more

learning needs in kindergarten, first grade, second grade, that student

should get more resources, right?

You might, you might identify that population of students and put them in

smaller classes and have teacher's aides and just have a more expensive educational

experience trying to catch them up.

So that's student-centered funding.

Cool.

An- another version of student-centered funding is if kids decide that

they wanna pursue education outside the public school system, those

dollars also follow that kid.

It might not be as many dollars as- Right … the kids who have a greater need.

Mm-hmm.

That money stays with the kids with the greater need.

But that has a lot of merit.

I haven't heard a lot of discussion of that in the New Hanover County,

Right … schools, and that's really a school board concern.

But when it comes to funding the schools, two-thirds of the

budget's coming from the state.

One-third is coming from the county taxes.

Okay.

That's a discussion I'll, I'd like to have with the school board.

Oh, see, I didn't realize that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good to know.

Always learning new stuff.

Exactly.

One of the things that I went to the Power Breakfast as you were also there.

Good thanks.

One of the things that they talked about was homelessness and different ways to

kind of combat that within the county.

What are some ideas that, that you have for that, and, like, where

do you think the need comes from?

So homelessness there's mental health and there's drug addiction.

Yeah.

And the county has done some nice things to try to step up and address that.

Of course, the need is great.

There's more that needs to be done, and our civic organizations need to

s- continue to do what they're doing.

But there's also the struggle between creating dependency-

Mm-hmm … and meeting the needs of the short-term homeless.

Right.

So, I don't have a silver bullet there, but that's- Those are the kinds

of questions I would ask going in to look at what government programs

or what government spending goes into helping address that problem.

Mm.

it should take care of the immediate needs, kind of the crisis homeless,

and then it should work very hard to help homeless get back on their feet.

Right.

I know there's actually better work being done in the private sector

to address the needs of the homeless.

Mm-hmm.

and I would like to encourage that work as much as possible.

I started doing some research on it 'cause I wanted to do, like a, a series

with the podcast about the homelessness in New Hanover County and everything,

and I've, and I've noticed that too, that it actually seems like there's quite

a few not necessarily, like, private, but, like, not funded by the government

type of deals that are out there that are doing significantly good work out

there and actually making a big, a big difference I guess debatably more than

what the government can do, right?

So I guess that's part of the reason why I lean more libertarian as well,

is 'cause I think the people that are actually out there doing the

work can probably do it better than-

Well, yeah.

So-

… Host: people sitting up in the skyscraper

… Bob: so many people are passionate about their issues, and if y- people

who are passionate about their issues and b- who, who find each other and

put together an organization like that, they can drive so much good.

They've got so much passion.

There's a real interesting issue in the city right now.

I'm not s- super well-informed on it, so I shouldn't bring it up, but I

think it's called The Healing Place.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

They they bought a house in a neighborhood.

They're gonna create a day center for homeless folks.

Of course, the neighborhood has some concerns.

Mm.

Justifiably so.

So they're trying to work through those issues.

Can we, can we put this center in this neighborhood?

So if you wanna know more, you know, about the homeless issue in

Wilmington, I, I encourage you to look up The Healing Place, and look

at the current debate there, and figure out which side you fall on.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Is, is the community, is the community right there to try to discourage that in

their neighborhood, or are The Healing Place people on the right track and that's

the longer term solution to our problems?

And, you know, let me know.

I'm- Yeah … I need to learn about this too.

That's neat.

Yeah.

Appreciate that.

Yeah.

Good to know.

Sorry, I'm…

got so many thoughts, but- … trying to narrow them down.

Got a lot of HBO

here.

so-

Trying to think

Because there's only…

Is this race, 'cause I'm jumping back to, like, the traditional- Yeah,

go

ahead … this race right now, y- you get two votes.

Are there only two seats open this time, or are there three seats open?

There are two seats open this time.

Okay.

And there are five candidates.

Okay.

So it changes the dynamic a little bit.

And you know, as I, as you approach it or as I approach it the first decision

is do you vote for the incumbents or do you vote for the challengers?

And if you're really happy with the way things are going in Wilmington,

vote, vote for both of the incumbents- Yeah … k- keep it going.

But if you think it can be done better, then look at the incumbents.

I mean, look at the challengers, right?

Challengers.

Yeah.

So if you think, well, or even think maybe, you know, I like one

of the incumbents, but I'd like to bring in some fresh blood.

So I'm really competing for that vote of the people who say, "We need new ideas.

We need fresh ideas.

We need something independent."

And if I don't get your first vote, I want your second vote.

And yeah, hopefully through appearances like this and all the campaigning

I'm doing, people can see that I'm a reasonable, rational guy that will d- go

out of my way to listen to you and, and, you know, serve your interests, and that's

the kind of person we need on the board.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry, I'm like, we hit that wall.

Yeah.

Like listening, and I'm like, all right.

Well,

it's

time

to drink

more then.

Right.

More water.

Do I have to pee again?

Oh, don't wanna do that.

Ah, no.

Need to wait.

So I, I was gonna just quickly say, I I do a little bit of offshore sailing.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

And I was helping a guy deliver a boat to the Bahamas.

We stopped in Titusville, Florida, and I don't know if you've ever been to

Titusville- Mm … but since you guys are whiskey guys, there is a bar in

Titusville where they have, like the most incredible selection of whiskey.

You go in, and the entire bar is whiskey.

They have- Wow … like a, you know, 20-page menu of whiskey.

I don't think of whiskey in Florida for some reason.

True.

Like it's- Yeah.

I don't know.

I feel like Florida's more of a rum in my head.

You're thinking- But- … more Caribbean, yeah.

Yeah, that's r- yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's

neat

to have, though.

That's cool,

Titusville.

Yeah.

So Titusville, p- put it o- I mean, for you guys, since it's your

thing, I would go out of my way.

Yeah.

Like if you go to Orlando or something, drive up.

Right.

It's not, it's also very close to Cape Canaveral.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So you know, take the kids to Cape Canaveral, and go over to-

Yeah … Titusville at night and check out this, this whiskey bar.

I'll have to do that.

Now you have a reason to go to Florida.

Yeah.

I didn't really need too many other reasons, but I'll take that one.

Right.

So one of my last questions for you, 'cause we are coming up on our time

now, is if you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?

Wow, you got me with a question I hadn't even thought about- Right.

… for a long time.

My younger self.

You know, I, I would've said that it, you know, don't worry,

it'll work, be all right.

Or, or maybe I shouldn't say that.

You know, we were talking about expectations.

Right.

I, I pushed pretty hard.

I did a lot of, I, I had ideas that I wanted to achieve things, and I,

I guess I always knew they might, they may or may not come out right.

Mm-hmm.

They've c- they've come out largely w- right.

So would that have been comforting to know?

Mm-hmm.

Pro- probably.

If not for myself, really for everyone who's out there.

We're talking about affordability as being a big issue in the county.

Yeah.

That's driven by two things.

One is about 25%, little over 25% of the people in the county are working

service or tourism industry jobs.

Yep.

L- very low on the wage scale.

It's, Those jobs are good for entry-level jobs, for learning work skills if

you can then take those skills and leverage them into something else.

But for a lot of people in the county, it is unaffordable.

You can't, you can't take a place where it's landlocked, you've got

money pouring in from all over the country, people buying, driving up

the value of real estate, and have entry-level jobs paying for, for,

for, you know, reasonable housing.

So it's, it…

That, that's a difficult situation, but f- most of those people…

the second thing that's driving the, the, I think the anxiety is social media.

Mm.

We can go and see how everyone's doing better than us.

Yep.

Right.

You know, I, I mentioned I do some sailing.

I have, like, a 14-foot sailing dinghy.

Mm.

And it's great.

I can take it to lakes and acro- up and down the, the

coast and go sailing anywhere.

But I'll go sailing and I'll see these yachts that are millions of dollars.

Right.

Ridiculous size.

Yeah.

So there, there are lots of people out there doing better than me.

But I'm happy with sailing my, my sailing dinghy and, and

crewing on other people's boats.

Right.

And I, you know, if, if I really decided to, I could pool my resources and, and

g- get something a little bit bigger.

So I think, yeah, I think you have to kind of differentiate

where that anxiety is coming from.

Some people it's legitimate and other people, take a deep breath, keep working

hard, you know, things will work out.

So anyway, that's my r- response.

Yeah, that's great.

And then my second to last question is, I mean, besides winning in this

race, what does success look like for you, or has it looked like for you?

Well, w- winning would be fabulous because then I would get an opportunity

to serve New Hanover County in, in this public service role, and it would

send a message really throughout the state that Democrats and Republicans

are not hearing what voters want, and that voters are willing to reach out if

the main parties don't, don't step up.

Mm-hmm.

So it would be huge.

But quite frankly, even being competitive sends that message.

True.

Yep.

So, again, people have two votes.

If you wanna send that message, use one of your votes to send that message.

It's that easy.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

One of my coworkers went to the Power Breakfast with me, and she

jokingly said, like, "You know, Bob's a really bad politician.

He actually answers the questions that people ask him."

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, she really appreciated you actually answering the questions

that people were asking of you.

Well, that is…

That…

A- and she's right, I'm probably a bad politician.

I say a few things that I, I shouldn't.

I did offend…

I'm gonna just take this second to apologize to the head of the

the Wilmington Housing Authority.

I was asked a question at the Power Breakfast- Mm … about government

spending on, on, for affordable housing, and I said, "Government

doesn't do that very well."

Well, after a conversation with the head of the Wilmington Housing

Authority, I understand they've got leadership in there that's trying

to do a g- a very good job there.

Mm.

And c- you know, quite frankly, the problems that they had were historical.

Mm.

But I also think that those problems are gonna happen when you have

government running programs like that.

You may have heard my answer at the Power Breakfast where I said,

"W- well, it's nice the county's investing in affordable housing."

Some people can look at that and saying one developer is getting a sweetheart

deal to lock in his interest rate.

Right.

Right?

And all the taxpayers in the county are subsidizing a few families when

it doesn't really solve the problem.

So, anyway, did I answer the question?

Yeah.

There's one other thing you've, you've brought…

You've mentioned there, which I was at the Power Brunch, and a guy walked up to me.

You see, he was so kind.

He was smiling.

He said, "Bob, how are you?"

And I had no idea who he was, so I said, "I'm, I'm just sorry.

I don't…

I, I can't place your face."

He says, "Oh, you wouldn't know me, 'cause I called you up about

10 years ago when I was running my manufacturing plant here in the-" Mm-hmm.

And he said, "I was a commercial banker, and I had reached out to you, and I just

want to say that y- you were, you were so kind and, and, and polite and courteous

in the, in this cold call that I had."

'Cause, you know, you've done some cold calling.

It's- Oh, yeah … people th- I, yeah, it, it's-

It's rough sometimes

it's rough sometimes.

And I get it.

People are just busy, and they don't wanna be bothered sometimes.

But you know, if a commercial banker's calling me up and I'm running a commercial

enterprise- … I at least wanna Right.

I might call him one day.

Yeah.

But he was very, he was very thoughtful, and, and it was great, 'cause he gave

me a testimonial and there were two or three other people in the group,

and I said, "Did you hear that?"

Right.

They did.

So, I think that speaks to the fact I try to listen to people and, and I…

We might not always agree, but I might not buy your services,

but I, I wanna hear your story.

Yeah.

You know?

That's great.

I love that.

I like it.

I like it.

You love it.

So my actual last question: Where can people find you, either on social media

or online, to kinda read a little bit more about what you're hoping- Great

to do?

Great.

Thanks for asking that.

So drach.us,

D-R-A-C-H dot U-S.

I tell people to think of the composer, Johann Sebastian Bach.

Mm-hmm.

Drach.

Oh, yeah, the D.

drach.us,

that's my website.

Nice.

you can s- sign up there.

I'll get ya…

We're gonna start up a a newsletter.

We'll send it out once every week or two, let you know about

the status of the campaign.

Obviously, donations would be fabulous.

It would help us get the, the word out.

But more important I'm looking for people who will advocate for me,

so go out and tell your friends.

If you'd be willing to put a yard sign out for me put that in your note to me

and I'll that, that's, that's the best thing, a testimonial in your front yard

saying, you know, "I support this guy."

That's what I'm looking for.

And later on in the election cycle, if people wanna s- stand

at the polls and greet people as they come to vote that, I'd, I'd

welcome that kind of help as well.

Nice.

So social media, I've got an account on X.

It's probably drach.u-

Drach for New Hanover County or Drach for NHC.

I do Facebook as well, so you can find me there.

Bobby, it's Bob Drach for NH- Bob Drach for NC.

But there are not too many people named Drach in the country.

You'll, You can find me on Twitter and Facebook and-

Nice

… Bob: and LinkedIn.

I've got a LinkedIn a- Yeah … account as well.

Perfect.

Well, thank you for coming on.

I, I was like, one, I am one of those, like, non-affiliated when it comes

to voting 'cause I'm, I'm- Great.

You're my

people

… Host: I'm one of those people that, like, I actually like to listen to both

sides and kinda, like, make my decision.

So whenever we have the opportunity to bring people on to give a different

point of view, I always appreciate it.

Mm-hmm.

And I know our viewers do too.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for having me.

You guys are great.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And you guys, you know the deal.

Like, comment, share, subscribe.

You know, we'll be posting some cool stuff throughout the week, and we

appreciate you guys for following us, and we're heading into year five.

See what's else is coming.

Cheers.

Cheers.