Part two of the interview with Angie Cooper kicks off with a guest appearance by Rory's 9 year old who provides us with a summary of some of the best books he has recently read.

Angie, Rory and Greg share insights about their respective careers, highlighting how their backgrounds in punk culture inform their professional ethics and professional relationships. The conversation explores the challenges faced by younger generations in navigating home ownership amidst economic challenges and corporate encroachment in real estate.

The important role financial planning and mentorship has played early in their careers is discussed along with how professional relationships helped the guest and co-hosts reach important milestones in their careers and lives.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Mind of Magnus

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I have a.

I have a question for Ren.

I see Bad Kitty over there.

What books do you like?

Bad Kitty.

All right, what do we got?

We got.

All right, Ren.

I see you've got Bad Kitty there.

What other books are you into right now?

What's your other favorite book, other than Bad Kitty?

Stranger Things.

Stranger Things.

Nice.

Yeah.

Is that like the graphic novel series?

Yeah.

I can't go get them.

No, don't worry about that.

Just talk about it.

Well, you've got a cool dad.

Because I, like, wouldn't let my kid who's your age read Stranger Things.

I don't think.

Maybe I would, though, if he, like, threw enough of a fit.

Are you allowed to.

Are you allowed to watch Stranger Things?

Oh, yeah, I've watched it.

I've watched three.

Two seasons.

Rory's cool dad.

We knew that.

I'm cool.

Do you think I'm cool?

Yes, Ren.

Your dad's so cool.

There's some things that, you know, we definitely crossed the line on that are hard nose.

But, you know, I.

I will say that Ren did ask me about this mug.

That is one of my mugs that is from a coffee company called Major Treat that no longer ex exists.

They're based out of Toronto, but they have this cup.

It says if you are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, or an come back when you're not.

And Ren asked me what transphobic and homophobic was today, so we got to talk about that.

The other thing, it seems that you're drawn and maybe other people are drawn as well to you in, like, that punk circle.

Like, you're.

You're drawn to connect and work with those folks.

Like, is that a natural thing?

Do you seek that out?

Like, how does that work for you?

That's an interesting question.

I don't actually seek it out.

I think it more happens naturally.

And it's not everybody, you know, I definitely have some clients that, on the surface, aren't punk, but once I get to know them, I'm like, oh, you are like.

You have the same ethos here.

It's just presented differently.

Right, right.

So, yeah, it's really cool.

And I.

I end up working with a lot of my friends or other clients, parents, which has been very cool.

There's been a cool, like, intergenerational kind of thing I've got to experience.

Whether they're moving to Richmond to be near their grandkids or things like that.

That has been a really neat byproduct of it.

One really weird thing is I'm very left Handed.

And I would say 70% of my clients are left handed.

Oh, wow.

Which has been a very creepy thing that we learn at the closing table when you go to sign the documents.

The attorney I work with, we're keeping tabs on how many left handed people there are.

So that's nature though, right?

Like, how would I know that you're a left handed person and it's been this weird draw, so who knows?

That's the unexplainable universe at work.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it's strange.

I think, I think your advice of finding a mentor is, is relevant no matter what you're doing, like whether you're going to be a teacher or, you know, a hairstylist or anything.

And I wish I had known that when I was younger.

I was very fortunate that I, you know, I encountered people who wound up taking me on and being my mentor.

But I didn't know to ask for help because I like came from a family dynamic where like you, you just didn't ask for help.

You figured it out on your own and then you took pride in like, you know, however long it took you to get a solution that someone might have been able to tell you, you know, right away and saved you a little time and trouble.

But that, that, that is like, I hope if, if people come away with nothing else, if they already own their own home or they just know that home ownership is, isn't what they want to find mentors, no matter what you do, even if it's not like professional.

Related, I, I 100 agree with that.

I mean, that's something that like I didn't know I had access to even, you know, like not going to much, much schooling or getting involved in school or college much until I really got into working in coffee and, and learning about more than just coffee and just the relationship building is so valid and important and throughout life and continuing that.

So you mentioned, Angie, that like you don't necessarily seek people out who like have a punk rock background.

But I like definitely do.

Like whenever I'm in a situation I'm like, all right, if I can't find someone who likes hardcore, then I at least have to find someone who like knows what bad religion and like the misfits are, I guess.

And I think the reason for that is people who come from a punk background are okay, I think more so than average admitting to the mistakes that they've made.

And I feel like from my mentors I've learned more from the people who have been candid with me.

Like, oh, yeah, I totally screwed my career up for five years because I was putting in the wrong effort or I had the wrong attitude.

So take Angie's advice, because I definitely can tell from your bet, from, you know, everything behind you.

You've got your shit together better than I do.

But you can also, you can also be kind of a fuck up like me and make it somewhere in life.

And I think the solution is find people who will admit to their mistakes, and then someday you've got to like, pay it forward and like, admit the mistakes you've made to someone else in a way that saves them from doing that same thing.

Amen.

Yeah.

Yep.

And I think, you know, being in a position now, even people look to me for leadership or advice in coffee and spaces.

And giving back to that is also fulfilling and fills me up and make, helps me learn.

And I love that aspect of it totally.

And that's something I have to like, remind myself with how all consuming my job is sometimes that I need to slow down and, and recognize those bids for connection from, you know, maybe other realtors in my office or other people around me.

So that's a, that's a good reminder that I need to slow down and allow myself to be that for people.

Sometimes I get kind of in the weeds with work and sometimes neglect the personal stuff.

So that's good reminder, guys.

Thanks.

Rory.

I have a kind of an aside question.

When you started Ugly Duck, did you like, deliberately go out and like, find someone who was like a small business owner and say, like, hey, I'm thinking of like breaking off on my own.

What did, what did you wish you knew?

Or did that just kind of come organically, like through your, your friendship with like, Brian Vanetten?

You know, there's so, so many things I wish I would have done.

Uh, my stubbornness was when I moved back to Rochester, I gave myself a five year plan.

Um, and my five year plan was I got hit with the coffee thing.

And I knew right away that I wanted to be involved in it.

And so when I left Rhode Island, I knew that I wanted to continue working at coffee.

Like, I was like, that was it.

Um, so I wanted to start a coffee business.

I wanted to pay off all my touring credit card debt, which was a massive thing.

And then I wanted to buy a house.

Those are the three super important things for me.

And I moved home, moved back in with my parents house in Fairport.

So I was moved, not in the city, but the Owl House was starting to open and they needed someone to work There, which is Jeff and Andrea at the time's business, and Brian was helping with the menu.

So I got in there and just started paying off my debt.

And.

And I met with my bank when I got home, which I never left, which is a small cooperative bank, because, you know, punk and money, but also still keeping it small and local.

So I kept it with.

And they really helped me and supported me with that process of checking the boxes of what I needed to do to buy a home and also start a business, because I told them that was my goal, and they knew financially where I was at, so they really helped me, guide me that way.

And I learned a lot by being on a small team, opening a restaurant, because I was on the ground floor when.

Right before the Owl House opened and helped them scale, essentially.

So I knew what that took, the work and energy and all of that.

And so that was really.

That was really important for me to be a part of.

And then what really kicked it off for me to know that I could do it was when Jeff, a friend of mine who's amazing and someone I still reach out to, and we talk often about these types of things, even though he's a peer, still, mentorship happens just.

Just naturally was when he was like, do you want to be the gm?

Do you want to run this place?

And I was like, oh, you see me like this?

This is crazy.

So I think that was.

That was really when I realized.

Realized that I could do it, when people kept coming to me for the answers or allowing me to lead in an organic way.

And so I didn't seek a mentorship specifically for certain things, but I just had that.

Maybe more of the stubbornness that I wanted to achieve this goal and do it.

And I checked off all the boxes and did it.

And then also had a.

Had a kid and got married.

All in there, too.

So which ugly duck turns 10?

Two kids.

We have two.

Yes.

Ugly duck turns 10.

This.

This may.

So.

10 is crazy.

Yeah.

So here we are.

This guy turns 10 may 1st, and then the business turns 10 a couple weeks after that.

That's amazing, man.

Good.

Good on you for having a kid and a business in the same month in the same year.

That is nuts.

You're, like, really on top of it.

Or, like, really, really crazy, figuring it out everywhere.

Really in the weeds.

Yeah, really, really in the weeds.

I.

You know, I would say, like Angie said, though, if people.

When people ask me my advice, I tell them the truth.

Like, this is hard.

This is brutally hard.

Like, I.

When.

When Ren was Born and we started Ugly Duck.

I, um, I was working every weekend, and I was still working both the jobs that I had.

I was still working at the restaurant.

I was still working at a coffee shop, another coffee shop.

And I was honest with everybody.

I was like, this is my priority, but I'm here too.

And I put everything back into the business until we opened the brick and mortar.

And then even a few months into that, I was still working at the Owl House.

And then Chris was like, you gotta.

You gotta just go all in.

Let's go all in here.

So you learn.

I learned a lot by just making a lot of mistakes, like you said.

Sorry for Ren.

Got a little coffee.

But.

So, yeah, making a lot of mistakes and.

But owning up to them and realizing it and then entrust allows you to entrust others to get you further along in the process, which has been huge recently.

And the conversation I have with a lot of people now is like, you got to trust your team.

Build your team to trust them, fill them up, and keep moving forward.

It's huge because it can be really lonely also being an entrepreneur and doing your own thing.

That was something I was really struggling with before I started my team was just the loneliness of it, because you just really are in the shit with your clients all the time, that it's hard to see yourself as anything else sometimes.

And I really struggled with that.

So having Anna Shay and my team has been really nice for the.

The loneliness factor.

Rory, something you said really spoke to me, was the.

The going all in thing, which is terrifying when you don't, oh, my God, paycheck.

I.

I continued to work.

I had one foot in the door in production.

When I started in real estate, I was still, like, doing business management at a small production company in Richmond.

And I kept that job for almost two years of my real estate career.

And it was bananas.

And my partner at the time was like, you have to just stop.

And same thing that Chris said.

You just gotta do it.

And it is scary because you're used to having something you can rely on, going into something that's totally in your own hands, and having the confidence to do that can be very, very tough.

But look at us.

We did it.

We did it, we did it.

We're doing it, actually.

Yeah, we're still in.

Continuing to do it and learning and growing through that process too continually.

I mean, you know, it's not without any.

Still failure or whatever, but, I mean, that's what skateboarding and punk and hardcore have taught me.

It's like let's fail upwards.

Let's continue to, like, figure it out and adapt.

And, you know, that's what we did, you know, and I'm sure all of you have had to do it during COVID That was like a total shift of, like, how we.

How we operated and live life, you know, and affected so many people.

But also, like we've hinted at, the work from home was huge.

It helped flexibility, helped people realize that their homes weren't a right fit for them and gave them the courage to move forward and have another step to push beyond what they thought was possible.

One question.

I have another question.

I said not one question, but for you, Angie, is what are some, like, skill sets you believe that you use now and where do you think you found them?

Do you think that you found them through, like, punk and hardcore?

Do you?

Or were they just, like, naturally a part of something you embedded?

That's a really good question.

I think the skill sets I use the most on a day to day basis are probably my listening skills and an organization, organizational skills and teaching.

So taking all of those things to help empower my clients to feel good about the decisions they're making.

I mean, obviously the empathy piece comes from punk and hardcore and traveling all the years working for bands.

I got a really awesome opportunity of traveling and getting to see different parts of the world and different parts of the country and experience, you know, how other people live.

And I think that helped build a lot of empathy for me.

So I come at each client from a place of, you know, really trying to understand where they're coming from, what their goals are, what their needs are, and also trying to meet them where they are through their preferred means of communication.

And that was something I learned from being a teacher.

Right.

Like, not all kids learn the same.

Not all adults learn the same.

So, you know, when I have my initial consults with my client, I ask them, I'm like, how do you like to communicate?

Do you like text?

Do you like email?

Do you like talking on the phone?

Like, what works best for you to absorb the information so you feel empowered with these decisions?

So, yeah, I think my education background, working in punk and traveling around has really given me a unique perspective and set of skills that help me my job.

Does that answer it, Rory?

I think you're muted.

There we go.

Yeah, I think all of that is so valuable.

I mean, learning so many things on the fly and being open and adapting to the willingness to serve others.

I mean, that's what it is.

That's what you're doing right.

Service industry job.

Yeah.

At the root of it, yep.

It is.

It is very much a service industry job.

And, you know, I know we've all probably worked in those and still do.

We all still do.

Yeah.

Greg, did you ever wait tables?

No, no, but I delivered pizzas, which, you know, almost the same thing.

I think anybody that's ever worked in a restaurant, which.

I worked in plenty of restaurants also, I think that gives us a very good perspective going into any other service type of job.

Yeah.

Food service is important because you get people when they're hangry and, like, there's never a point in time where you're more unreasonable than when you're hungry.

And it.

I know I'm not.

It teaches you about how to cope with, you know, people who are challenging in ways that, you know, if you only ever work an office job, you're never going to get that.

That raw, visceral angle of it.

Yep.

I kind of alluded to it earlier about, you know, finding a mentor who's going to, like, acknowledge their mistakes.

Like, is there, like, a mistake you've made on your path?

It doesn't necessarily have to be related to being a realtor, but is there a mistake that you've made that you, like, learned something, you know, valuable from that maybe, like, you don't regret making?

In hindsight, absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, the main thing that jumped out at me is I spent about five years working in advertising as a producer, and I never felt purpose doing it.

You know, the creative piece was cool, and learning how all that works is cool.

And I love video production.

But I.

At the end of the day, I was so.

Just uninspired.

Like, it was.

I had no purpose.

Right.

Like, I couldn't get fired up about it the way I can about finding somebody a home.

And I spent five years doing that.

When I look back, I'm just like, oh, God, that was a long time to spend doing something that did not drive me.

I'm grateful for my time there.

I think I did learn some.

Some positive things from it, but I do feel like I.

I wish I had found real estate sooner and found my purpose sooner.

I truly feel like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

And I know, Rory, you mentioned that with coffee, like, as soon as that hit, you're like, this is the thing.

I mean, when I sold my first house, I was like, this is the thing.

Like, where has this been?

Like, why did I waste all this time?

I mean, I don't believe in wasted time.

But you know.

Yes.

You know what I'm saying?

Why did it take so long?

Why did it take so long?

And why did I spin my wheels in this job where I wasn't proud of the output?

So, yeah, that.

That would be my one thing.

Like, if you're doing something that you're not super hyped on or not feeling purpose.

I mean, Grant, we're not all going to be hyped on our jobs 100% of the time.

We're not going to feel purpose 100% of the time.

But if you're really doing something where you're not purpose driven or you feel like you have found your thing you're really good at, I would.

Yeah.

Reconsider as quickly as possible.

Get out if you can.

Yeah.

I think that's something that the younger generation is more.

More adept at doing than we are.

They're so good at it.

Yeah.

If they're not happy, they're out.

Which is, you know, something that even as someone that's in a hiring capacity has to also understand, too, and not just go by, okay, why didn't you work here for six months?

Why didn't you work here for three months?

Like this?

This isn't great for me.

Right.

You know, on paper.

On paper, quote, unquote.

But if those folks, those younger folks communicate it in a way that's authentic and say, hey, it wasn't a right fit, that's.

That's amazing.

Totally cool.

Yeah.

And I think it's okay for younger folks to be honest in those interviews, in those spaces, so people can understand that, you know.

Yeah.

Rory, that was something I was going to ask you, being, you know, someone who is managing people.

Yeah.

Which is very difficult.

How.

How do you bring, you know, punk ethics into that?

And like, how do you just.

How do you do that?

You know, it's something that, for me, it's being consistent, showing up, being consistent, first and foremost.

You know, whether that is having a schedule that comes out on time for your team working in service.

You know, there are times on that Sunday I didn't know if I was working Monday.

And the chaos of that in your brain, you're not a lot.

You don't.

You can't set a schedule.

You can't allow yourself to settle in or plan things.

Like, so right out of the gate, it was like, okay, be consistent with scheduling.

Have it be at least two to three weeks out.

And so folks can plan their lives and adapt.

And if we need to adapt, we'll adapt, you know, and there's other things we've added along the way, but it's, it's peeling back the layers of the work trauma, especially in hospitality.

Yeah.

It's like, it's okay to be sick.

You have sick time, use it.

And so when new folks come in, it's like, yes, we do onboarding and we talk about these things, but also live.

Live it right.

So like the team, the team lives it, you know, so like the rest of the team can speak to it that have been there for a while.

We have very low turnover, which is amazing.

And I think it speaks to, you know, paying folks.

Well, it speaks to giving people time off, telling them that they have it, to take it, supporting them with being able to pay some health insurance, you know, vision and dental care.

We cover as a small business and can bring them along with those processes.

Ask them their input.

Would you rather have this benefit or would you rather have this benefit?

You know, let's figure this out.

What works best for all of us.

And right now, I would say, like, none of our team are necessarily like punk or hardcore people, but there are a lot of folks that are, you know, counterculture folks.

So.

But they appreciate transparency, open communication, honest feedback, and they want to be seen, and they are seen at our space.

And I think that's also super important.

Show up authentically in who you are.

And.

And that's across the board.

Um, and honestly, I step into messy conversations and pull people aside and talk to them authentically.

And.

And it's not always like a slap on the wrist or a write up.

It's like, hey, what's going on?

Are you okay?

Like, it's okay to take some time.

Like, that's usually an underlying issue.

That's not.

Yeah.

Not work.

Typically it comes down to communication 100%.

Typically it's like you're bottling something up and you're bringing it here, like this volcano or whatever bomb that's going on.

Great visual.

Yeah.

Perfect timing, Ren.

And so, you know, it's these moments that get exacerbated in so many other places that if you don't avoid them and you're empathetic like you were talking about, that's huge for me.

It's like I've.

I.

I can empathize with your position and I understand other jobs aren't like this, but, like, you can be okay.

Yeah.

Coming here and saying, I'm not feeling it today.

I gotta go home.

Okay, let's.

We'll figure it out.

Yeah.

Because it allows other folks to show up in A better way when you're feeling like you can take a day off, you know, if you're not feeling it.

And that's important, you know.

And our team volunteers those moments, like, hey, I might not be feeling well tomorrow.

I'll let you all know.

But.

And it's like our team, our managers that are salaried are awesome.

And they're like, do what you need to do.

And then I support everyone.

You know, it's like, people will fill in and figure it out.

And it's.

It's reciprocal because our team then picks up the ball too.

So it's amazing.

So cool.

Yay.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it's weird, you know, it's like putting forth those ethics that I've grown into.

And I've always just wanted.

I wanted to create a space that I felt like I wanted to work at.

And that's like the end all, be all and be consistent about it.

And I think we've done, I've.

So far, I've done, I think, what I've set out to do and just keep adding little things like, you know, simple ira like, you know, the corporate kind of stuff.

But then, yeah, this past year, I rolled out a quarterly massages for our team.

Like, that's that, you know, there's a masseuse in the area that comes from the punk world.

I'm like, okay, we're all going to go here a quarter.

I'll pay for a quarterly massage for everyone on the team.

If you don't want that, then there's acupuncture we can work on or mental health stuff.

Let's figure something out.

That's so cool.

And then you're also pulling in more people from the community to support your exact.

Yeah, I love that.

Many of the vendors that I choose to work with and recommend to my clients come from the punk world as well.

The inspector I use a ton, Rich Green, was an action patrol, and we shared a practice space together.

And so I really trust him to, like, inspect a house properly and tell my clients honest, honest opinion.

The attorney I use drove Inquisition to Battle of the Bands at their high school.

Oh, my gosh, that's great.

So even the attorney, I like, try to curate, like a team of people that come from the same place that we do and they, you know, exercise the same level of care.

So, yeah, because I get it.

They get it.

They get it.

They're going to treat my clients the way I treat them, and that's important.

Like, I'm not going to recommend somebody that's going to, you know, muck up the works here.

Yeah, well, it's same like, you know, working with folks that get it.

Like, you know, John Olich from Stanfast is one of our bakers.

So, like.

Oh, is he really?

Yeah, so I see him all the time and he drops off like food and, you know, I'm always pushing him to do more vegan options, like, or whatever, you know, whatever it is, or, you know, just be there in the way, like, people always ask, like, how do you do this?

Or how do you do that?

It's like, I just do it naturally with folks that I think are doing some cool stuff, you know, and people.

You trust that you've known for decades.

Like, that's the other cool thing about, you know, our community is that a lot of us have been in this for a very long time together.

We've seen all the versions of each other and, like, seen the growth.

It's very cool.

I think.

I think what we don't want to admit any of us in these circles is that we've been networking for so long in hardcore punk communities, but it's just overflows outside of that when you go outside.

So we're okay with networking, but there's.

People who, like, they join like the Rotary Club or the Lions Club 2 network.

Yes.

And I find that, like, I, I would like you're doing that all along through bands, because you have to.

That's.

That's how bands meet each other and how you get a show for your band and how you help another, you know, band out from another city with a show in yours.

So like, that seems like, so intuitive to me in a way where, like, I'm always stunned when I meet people that are older than me who, like, haven't figured that out.

It's like, no, like, you can't just expect people to create opportunities for you.

You have to share the opportunities you have with the people that are in your community, whoever that might be.

One thing too, you were talking about Rory, that, that I think is important is, you know, in terms of, like, managing people, like, not having that I'm your boss and you're gonna do what I say kind of attitude.

But, you know, having, you know, like, at punk rock, we think of ourselves as being so open minded.

And, you know, there's a way to do that in a performative way.

But when you're actually authentically open minded, it's coming from a place of non judgment and from a place where you can tolerate to some extent, like, Imperfection in others and people doing things a different way.

And that's like ultimately where innovation comes from and where what I want.

When I'm like managing the folks at the library, like, I kind of like it when people like will, you know, throw up their hand at me and be like, no, I've got a different way of doing this and will like kind of call me on my own.

And I don't.

I think you get that more readily with folks who grew up in like, the more extreme alternative, you know, non mainstream types of music.

Yeah.

And I think it's.

I think it speaks to creating an environment where it's okay to question because that's how you move the needle forward.

You know, like we.

That energy is given freely without you even speaking by, by seeing people first and foremost.

And that allows that connection to grow, either yourself or your team or others involved in the space.

You know, because that, for me, like, that affects the energy of the space.

You know, if someone feels like they're going to get in trouble for quote, unquote, messing up, yeah, you know, that's toxic, you know, with coffee.

It's an imperfect product that we're dealing with no matter what.

It's an agricultural product, so it's never going to be perfect.

And I communicate that to the team and try to allow growth from there.

And.

And so that's something hard to also get people to be comfortable with because we're so often told that we have to be right or perfect doing these things so frequently that it becomes kind of hard to push back on that narrative when you're quote, unquote, the boss, like you said, you know, and, and regardless of me wanting to be called the boss or not, they do and realizing that folks are who they are and folks aren't going to be there for the long term.

That's okay.

Not taking those things personal is also okay.

Like someone told me, two of our team members told me I was too nice last two weeks ago, you know, and I'm like, okay, am I too nice or am I not taking it personal?

And I asked them that and they're like, that's a, you know, offer that, like, offer those, like, communications points.

Because, like, I'm not taking this personal.

This is not on me.

This is a situation that is evolving and maybe I'm in the sphere, but it's not my issue because I've been transparent.

I've been these things, I've been consistent.

So as long as you're doing those things, you're instilling that confidence and allowing people the space that's needed, which I think is important.

All right, we're back.

Yeah, timeouts are tough.

That doesn't.

Typically, they don't go for timeouts.

That does not scare them.

Put the toys in timeout, though.

Then I'm, like, manipulating their sense of empathy for their stuffed animals.

And it's gonna be your fault that.

That's.

Hobbs.

Stuffy is in timeout for the whole weekend for sure.

I mean, if I took Bunny away from Ren, that would be.

That would be.

I would.

I would be in timeout.

Yeah.

No, there's certain things you can't go there with, but.

Even threatening it is stink faces over here.

Okay, that's not gonna happen, buddy.

Better not happen.

Wonder where he gets that from.

Sometime we'll have my kids on it, and it'll be.

It'll be.

It'll.

Your kid is doing great right now.

My kids.

The laptop would be broken right now.

The screen would be detached from the keyboard.

I don't even think they know I have a laptop because it's.

It's too precious and they.

They destroy it.

So.

But I will say my kids, I did tell them about the tariff and the Nintendo Switch, and I think that that will actually be a core memory that affects their political beliefs, like decades into the future.

Yes.

I will also say to a family member is now unemployed thanks to Elon Musk.

So we have an opinion about Elon Musk, but with sister, right?

Yeah, well, my.

My sister's okay, but my brother in law got.

Got the Department of Government Efficiency Treatment.

Yeah, no, he was, like, doing important research on traumatic brain injuries for soldiers returning from war, but who cares about that?

Jesus Christ.

But I have had a conversation with my son, who's 8 and he's got autism.

He's super literal.

I've told him straight up.

I'm like, you cannot.

You cannot.

We cannot discuss our family's opinion of Donald Trump out in public because that might get me beat up.

Depending on.

The audience we're in.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't care, but, you know, I've said worse, probably so.

But you're in a different position than I am, for sure.

Yeah, No, I don't.

I don't want to.

I don't want to.

I don't want to have to, like, get into a fight because my kid told someone that, you know, in a maga hat that what his grandma thinks of Donald Trump.

Luckily, I'm from a family where most of us are on the Same page about Donald Trump.

But I know that's not universally the case.

So we don't even have to navigate that complicated dynamic.

Yeah.

So anyway, I guess, I mean we're kind of approaching the, the, the, the point where you know, we've got like, we probably got like a decent two parter here.

But since we're on the topic of politics, I kind of was like curious, Angie, like how, how is, how is it working in real estate?

You've like been through, I think like if I did the math correctly, like two Trump administrations.

And if you can't get into politics because of like the line of work you know, you're in, if that's going to affect things, I totally appreciate that.

There are times where there's like certain things I'm reluctant to speak to, mostly relating to like local politics in my, in my line of work.

Like what is, what is this effect on, on the real estate market and like first time home buyer types.

Yeah.

So politics is not a protected class.

So I can talk about that.

It's not part of fair housing.

It's interesting, honestly, not much impact during the first administration because interest rates were still in a reasonable place.

But now that they are, you know, in a, in a pretty not reasonable place, I mean if you look at history, they're still, you know, below 7% and that's still okay.

But compared to what we saw, you know, a few years ago, a lot of buyers are still stuck on the hope of that.

And with the increasing home prices combined with the high interest rates, it is tougher for first time homebuyers.

So we are seeing for the first time in years a bit of a slowdown in the market just because of the instability politically people are afraid to access and I mean the other week people got hit so hard that had money in stocks and yeah k's and a lot of people borrow against their 401ks for down payments.

So those got hit really hard.

I've had a few buyers that have pressed pause on their searches just to kind of recover from that.

And just with the instability with everything, it has really caused a slowdown.

I think we're going to start to see a bit of a market decline because of all of it.

I'm hoping for the market correction because we have been in such a, a difficult time where we have such a lack of inventory that it is driving the prices up.

I don't know if that's everywhere, but Richmond market surely has experienced that.

We have way more buyers than we have homes to sell.

Them.

I think that's happening.

Yeah.

A lot of places in the US that's kind of the case.

So, yeah, it's still kind of early to know what's going to happen, but.

But honestly, the past few weeks we have seen kind of a slowdown, which is not normal for the spring market.

Usually spring is when it's bananas.

Another political adjacent question that I had about like homeownership, and I think this is more prevalent like in California, but around Rochester and even in my hometown, there's like more businesses or like companies that are buying houses specifically so that they can turn them into like rental properties.

And I've noticed there are like some municipalities that are starting to pass laws or consider laws where like foreign companies aren't allowed to buy like residential real estate or, you know, in the more progressive, progressive communities, maybe there's just a straight up prohibition on like businesses buying houses and then just turning them into rental properties.

How prevalent is that and how much is that affecting housing prices right now?

I've been following a lot of that as well.

Richmond.

And that's the only thing I can kind of speak to because I know that market.

But, you know, we've seen some of it.

But on a personal note, you know, I represent about as many sellers as I represent buyers.

Right.

So if I have sellers, a lot of them, when we're getting offers, they're looking at the offers.

And if, you know, if it is a llc, that is not one of the ones we were talking about earlier, you know, that's tied to some of these.

Yeah.

Terms.

The sellers are scrutinizing those offers a little differently and they often will want to go with an owner occupant instead.

So I think a lot of those big corporations are predatory towards folks that maybe don't have the luxury of that decision of multiple offers.

So I think they're really kind of attacking weaker markets, if you will.

So, you know, places that might have a little bit more inventory or people that are kind of in a bind a bit more.

Richmond is such a booming market that it's.

We're seeing it, but it's not as ubiquitous as it is in some of the other more declining markets.

I find.

You can invest in people's mortgages and then, you know, anyone who could qualify for a mortgage got one, and so they just started reducing you know, the threshold that you needed to satisfy to, like, get a mortgage.

And eventually you had people with mortgages that they, like, never could afford.

And it kind of, like, reminds me of that, but it also scares me because I, like, have this fear that, like, someday home ownership is going to be a thing of the past, and that, like, you'll have suburbs, you'll have people living in houses and on streets that look like the one I grew up on.

But no one will own their own home.

Instead, their home will be, like, just another benefit that they get through their employer, you know, so long as they stay in that particular job.

And it feels like permitting these, like, large companies to do these kinds of things gets us a step closer to, like, that kind of dish.

Yeah, I mean, they live in corporate housing.

Right.

Sign me up for the severance procedure.

I don't want to think about work when I'm at home.

But, like, that show, I think, is so successful because it taps into so many fears that we have about what our relationship with work is.

And even, like, Rory, you were saying some things that were making me think of that, like, none of us really have any choice but to work.

Um, and so, like, when you get into a situation where there's, like, toxic personalities at work or it's just, like, not fulfilling work, it really is, like, a terrible thing because, like, what else are you going to do?

Quit?

Quit your job?

Like, not everyone has the luxury of just, like, walking away from a job and waiting until they find something that, you know, aligns with their values.

Oh, 100%.

Like, I.

Something I, you know, I speak to.

To our team is you choose to work here.

Like, we could.

Let's talk about it if there's something else that we can do.

But even to talk about the housing part of that is.

I'm totally with you, Greg.

And, like, it's so concerning and overwhelming for these younger folks to even think about buying homes.

But as we know, it is possible.

But at the same time, it's critical that they maybe be open, honest, communicate about money.

Figure that out and look into other avenues.

And.

Common Thread is co hosted by Greg Benoit and Rory Van Grohl with creative support from Rob Antonucci.

Follow us on Instagram @commonthreadhxc podcast for news and updates.

Contact us at commonthreadhxcpodcastgmail.com.

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