Audrey Snyder and Gabe Snyder stop by the studio to reflect on their “whirlwind” transition at Ward Black Law since the passing of founder Janet Ward Black last November. In January, they purchased the Greensboro-based firm and will preserve Janet Ward's faith-driven culture while reshaping it as their own. In this conversation with host Amber Nimocks, they discuss their vision of serving clients spiritually as well as legally. They are both active with NCAJ: Audrey has served as chair of the Women’s Caucus and the Products Liability Class Actions and Mass Torts section while Gabe is a graduate of the NCAJ’s leadership program and was chair of the Auto Torts and Premises Liability Section. So, they share their positive experiences with the organization. Tune in to hear about their “meet cute” as college undergrads.

🎙️ Featured Guests 🎙️

Name: Audrey Snyder

Connect: LinkedIn

Name: Gabe Snyder

Connect: LinkedIn

💡 Episode Highlights 💡

[03:00] A Whirlwind: Audrey reflects on the “whirlwind” that she and the entire Ward Black Law team has experienced since founder Janet Ward Black passed away last November.

[04:00] Stewarding a Legacy: Audrey and Gabe share their career journey that brought them to Ward Black.

[11:16] The Path to Law: “We both had law in mind.” Gabe describes how he and Audrey pursued a career in law after meeting as undergrads.

[26:45] The Gift: Janet Ward left $50,000 to NCAJ, which will help fund a mentorship program.

[25:47] Life-Changing Program: Gabe credits the NCAJ NEXT leadership program with teaching him management and leadership skills that law school doesn’t cover.

[29:29] 20 Years: Audrey describes the firm's 20-day celebration honoring Janet Ward's birthday and the firm's 20th anniversary, culminating in a staff dinner on March 6.

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Welcome to Voices of NCAJ.

We're talking to members of the North

Carolina Advocates for Justice about what

it means to be a trial lawyer, what it

takes to be great at the practice of law,

and how being a part of NCAJ

enriches their lives and careers.

Produced and powered by LawPods.

Welcome everyone to Voices of NCAJ,

the podcast for the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice. I am Amber Nimocks,

your host and director of

external affairs for NCAJ.

Before we get started,

I'd like to thank our circle of leadership

gemstone level members for supporting

NCAJ's mission and this podcast.

If you're watching on YouTube,

you can see a list of circle of leadership

firms at the end of the podcast.

To find out how your

firm can join the circle,

go to ncaja.com/circle.

My guests today are Audrey

and Gabe Snyder. In January,

the Snyders bought Ward Black Law in

the wake of the passing of the firm's

founder, Janet Ward Black in November.

The Snyders have both been actively

involved for NCAJ in years,

as was Janet Ward.

Audrey has served as chair of NCAJ's

Women's Caucus and the Products Liability

Class Actions and Mass Torts section,

and she has served as president of the

North Carolina Association for Women

Attorneys. Gabe is graduate of

NCAJ's NEXT leadership program

and has served as chair of the Auto

Torts and Premises Liability Section.

Audrey, Gabe,

welcome to the program and congratulations

on being the new owners of Ward Black

Law. Thank.

You. Thank you. Thank you.

So you announced the purchase

of the firm in early January,

and that followed very shortly

after Janet Ward's passing.

So this must have been, I'm only guessing,

a whirlwind few months for you guys.

You screeze Christmas in there in

between somewhere, right? Yeah.

With your two small children.

How are you both feeling?

Well, now that you asked,

I've taken a moment to pause

and maybe reflect on that.

It has been a whirlwind, as

you said. And to be honest,

I feel like we have not

really stopped to even

recognize or appreciate

all that's happened.

So between losing Janet Ward,

and of course that was

extraordinarily hard on our firm,

a lot of mixed emotions

with seeing her pass

and losing her,

but also knowing that she

is in a place that she wants

to be with her Lord and

savior. That's comforting.

And then just trying to continue

to steer a whole law firm

across a finish line and into

a transition has just been ...

A whirlwind is a really

good description of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'll echo what she said.

I feel like it's been difficult,

but in a lot of good ways.

Janet Ward did a good job of kind of

preparing us for this in a lot of ways,

letting us in the

leadership team for years.

Audrey and I have been at the

firm for six, seven years a piece.

So we really have been

involved in business decisions

and handling things with

the firm. And so the thing motivating

us now is keeping the team together,

keeping our staff together,

keeping our clients together,

and really trying to continue on with

Janet Ward's legacy of giving and care.

And so yeah, both of you

were at the firm for, Gabe,

you said six or seven years?

Yeah, I have trouble keeping

so I'm going up on seven

and Audrey got here first.

I had joked that she actually got me

my first job. So my first big boy job.

That's handy.

That's a good job. Yeah. It's nice

being married to a successful person.

And how did you come to work

at War Black Law, Audrey?

Well, it was absolutely

a God story of how I

got to the firm. Gabe,

my wonderful husband joined his father's

firm here in Greensboro when he first

started practicing.

And I followed him and came to

Greensboro, but didn't have a job.

So I applied to several places,

didn't get much back in

the way of interviews or

offers.

So one day I got tired of sitting at home

and waiting and decided I was going to

put on a suit and print out some resumes

and just introduce myself to the law

firms in Greensboro.

So I literally walked

into Word Black Law and I

remember being so impressed by the

fact that Janet Ward led her firm

with her faith.

And so when I walked up to the front

desk here in the office, I said, "Hi,

my name's Audrey Snyder. I have a law

degree and I share your faith. Are you

hiring?" Wow. Wow. So yeah,

I've had quite the story of how

I got here. The answer was no,

we're not hiring,

but we may have some work

for you on a contract basis.

And so I got a call a couple

weeks later and they made

me an offer for, I think

the way it was phrased is,

"We don't have an office space for you.

We have no idea how long

you can work for us,

but if you're willing to

show up and work with us,

then we'll give you some contract work."

And so I actually turned down at that

time a full-time job because I was

so drawn to word black law and I

felt like it's where God wanted me to be.

So with no benefit offers

and just a contract

basis, no guarantee of

work other than two weeks.

They said they'd give

me two weeks of work.

I started working with the firm in their

family law department actually when we

used to have a family law department

and I worked for about three months and

Janet Ward decided that she needed

to sign me up for full-time and

keep me around.

So yeah, it was quite the adventure.

That is not your typical

how I came to firm X, Y,

or Z story. That's really amazing.

I would never think that in this day and

age with all the LinkedIn and all the

automated robots and

everything that you usually ...

The typical route is you

either know somebody or

you try to get it over, put the

right keywords in for your resume.

So that is really amazing that you walked

in the door and that was the door you

decided to stay in. Wow.

Yeah, absolutely. Nine

years later, I'm still here,

the first firm and only firm

I've ever worked at. Oh.

Okay. Wow. And so Gabe,

you followed her to War

Black Law a few years later?

I've been following her

around since we met.

A smart man. Smart man.

That's right. That's

and I've been following ever since.

We went to undergrad together,

law school together,

and a job opened up and my dad was

starting to slow down for retirement

and a job had opened up at

Ward Black and Audrey said,

"Why don't you apply?"

And Jane Ward hired me.

Awesome.

Been working here ever since.

Started off in workers' comp,

then progressed into PI and

comp. And then anyway, yeah.

So how did you two meet? Do you

have a good meet cute story?

Yeah, Gabe gets to take that.

One. Yeah, I like telling it because

Audrey's kind of factual about it.

And so for me, I was the one

that was kind of infatuated.

Yeah. Yeah. So what,

so we were young going to college

and we were sitting in the,

or I was sitting with my buddy at the

cafeteria and we're sitting talking and

obviously looking around for girls.

It was like all we wanted

to do when we got there.

So.

I look up and I see Audrey. First

of all, I was stunned. I mean,

I thought she was beautiful. And I said,

"I'm going to go talk to her." She's

like, "No, you're not. " I was like, "No,

no, go watch me. Watch me. " So I

walk up and she's in the burger line.

I think there had raps there, I found

out later. And I had already eaten,

of course. I'm literally just there to

talk to her. So I walk up and I said,

"Hey, my name's Gabe.

Looks like you play tennis," because

she was wearing a tennis outfit.

And she looked at me and she goes,

"Uh-huh." Like that. And I go, okay,

well, I play tennis too. And

she's like, "That's nice.

That's cool." And I'm like, "Well, if

you play tennis and I played tennis,

then maybe we should play sometime."

And she said, "Well, if you want to,

you can look me up on

Facebook." And so I said,

"Okay." And I faked getting a

burger and then I looked her up on

Facebook and sure enough,

we went and played tennis.

We fight about what our first date was.

I think it was tennis.

She thinks it was Cracker Barrel because

that's all there is at Campbell at

Bowie's Creek. Plus I'm

17, I don't have any money,

but blueberry pancakes and eggs

and bacon, I think is what we had.

Aw.

That's a.

Great story. You have to tell her.

So what's really special and makes

it that much more cute the way we

met is I had told him,

"You have to look me up on Facebook."

So he friended me that day,

invited me to be his friend and

then messaged me that way. Well,

however many years later, I

think it was seven years later,

we're standing on the

altar getting married

and we're listening to a song that

his brother had written for us and

he whispers in my ear and he says,

"Guess what popped up on my Facebook

this morning?" And I was like, "No, what?

" And he said, "We've been

friends now for seven years.

Today is the day that I invited you to

be my friend." And so it must have been

the day that we met.

September 2nd.

September 2nd. Yeah. And I had no idea.

So of course I'm like teary-eyed

on the altar at our wedding.

She's like, "Why did you tell me

that now?" Whispering, of course.

That is terribly

romantic. Very, very nice.

Who knew a cafeteria

could and burgers, you.

Know? And you actually had

to buy another burger. So

that's a real commitment as a 17-year-old.

I was committed to that relationship

early on, apparently. Yeah.

I liked her so much on our first date.

I joked about, I was so nervous. I said,

"Our kids are going to have our same

sense of humor." So I was real smooth.

That was.

Terrible. Playing it cool.

Yeah. Not obsessed.

So you started dating as undergrads

and then how did you both

decide to pursue the legal profession?

I think we both had law in

mind when we went to Campbell.

I think one of the things that attracted

us the most about Campbell was that

they had a faith-based law school,

which we thought was really,

really impressive. So I think going in,

we both knew we wanted

to go to law school,

but we weren't positive that

we wanted to go to Campbell.

I was pretty confident in that, but Gabe,

I don't think made the final decision

to go to Campbell until about a couple

months before classes started.

Okay.

But yeah,

we were in classes together from freshman

year at Campbell undergrad all the

way through for seven years

through law school. So

we are very used to working

together and so it was kind of a

natural fit for us. I know working

together is not for every couple,

and we certainly have to have our

separate domains here at Ward Black Law,

but it seemed very natural for us

because we kind of grew up together in a

sense.

Right, right. What was it that

drew you to the law in general,

Audrey?

For me,

I always had a really big passion

for helping people through their

problems.

I've been drawn to the counseling

aspect of the practice of law.

I majored in psychology

and I thought about

counseling at one time,

but when I went and shadowed

some psychologists and

kind of saw what that would

look like day in and day out,

I felt a real call that that's

not something I would really

want to do long term.

I felt like I really needed a

way to help people tangibly,

to help change their circumstances.

I'm not really the best

listener all the time.

I like to hands-on problem solve.

So I think that was really the deciding

factor for me is I felt like I could

really make a difference for people

and make a difference in changing their

circumstances through the law.

Cool. And how about you, Gabe?

How long have you known that

you wanted to be a lawyer?

So since I was like in second grade,

and it probably has something to

do with my dad being a lawyer,

you idolize your father and

my second idol was Matlock,

the best lawyer that ever lived.

I used to watch with my mom.

Seriously? Oh.

Yeah. That's awesome. Absolutely.

Serious sucker and hotdogs, baby.

Absolutely.

But as I got older, when you

actually decide those things,

it became more of an object

or a goal for me because I

think I just love telling

other people's stories.

I love telling their story in

a way that impacts others and

that sometimes people,

they can't tell their story the way that

needs to be told and they need somebody

to speak for them. And

so that was very, very

something that I wanted to do.

I like advocating for people,

no matter what it is, to help them.

Yeah, that's true.

There's a great storytelling

component to being a lawyer,

so absolutely.

So you guys are about two months into the

stewardship of this institution,

which is celebrating its 20th year,

right? This month in February.

And it has a very ...

Obviously you knew this from the

moment you walked in the door, Audrey,

a unique culture.

How is it occurring to you as

the new leaders of this firm?

How are you going to preserve the

ward black law and further the word

black law culture? I'm sure you must

be thinking about that all the time.

Absolutely. I think we're trying

to take it one step at a time.

Janet Ward left a legacy and

footprints that we'll never fill.

And frankly, we don't really want to.

We want to take what she

built and continue it,

absolutely,

but also reshape it somewhat to

make it our story that we know God

has for us. I love that you used the

word stewardship. That's how we feel.

We feel like we are very

blessed and fortunate to have

the opportunity to lead a

law firm.

We've got 30 staff who we care

for deeply that dedicate every

single day of their life.

They spend more time here in this law

firm than they do at home with their

family.

So part of what we're

focused on is really making

sure that they are well cared for

and that we are empowering them with

resources and things that they can

use to give their highest and best

every day.

We're all skilled in different ways.

So we're really about bringing our team

together so that we can ultimately do

what we've all been called

to do here in this building,

which is serve clients

who've been injured.

And so we're really kind

of taking a step back,

reflecting on all that Janet Ward has

built and the legacy she has left and kind

of refocusing on our

staff and on our clients.

Client service is really,

really important to us.

So we are really trying

to make sure that we are

maintaining and stewarding as best

we can with what we've been given.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll echo on

that too. I think for us,

we didn't choose it this way.

This is the way God had it happen

and the way that it just happened.

And for us,

what we've been hearing is

an understanding and trying

to listen to God in is

that God hasn't called

us to be Janet Ward.

He's called us to be Gabe and Audrey.

And that means that he's

given us certain gifts.

He gives us a different

calling. And so for us,

it's maintaining the ministry,

maintaining the idea that

we are a Christian law firm,

but it may look different.

And one thing that we have prayed

about and felt passionate about

is actually having either

one or two members of staff

who call clients, not for a case update,

not for a treatment update,

but just to call and ask them how we

could pray for them. And we want to take

those prayer requests into our

office and not just say, "Oh,

you need lunch or you're hungry

and we'll pray for that. " No,

we want to be able to give them something.

We want to be able to put them in with

all these great nonprofits that Janet

Ward built up and utilize that so

that we're kind of a funnel for them.

The idea would be, I explained it

to our ministry team the other day,

when our clients come in,

they've suffered a loss.

And the only thing that we can offer

as attorneys to fill that loss is

money. That's the way

the justice system works,

but there's something else empty there.

And so we're trying to fill that need.

Spiritually.

For them to ensure that they're

not filling it with something else.

It's really sad day whenever you see your

clients get hooked on pain medication,

alcohol,

trying to fill that void that's been

put in their life either from grief or

sadness of loss.

And so we want to promote and help them

fill that with spiritual things instead

of those other things that could

cause them harm down the line,

particularly when the money runs out.

Right, right.

And that's a tall order to

endeavor to give people more than

just the financial compensation that

is. And I know that a lot of ...

It weighs on ...

Gabe and I were in this leadership

seminar half day yesterday where

we talked about making sure that you

have something left over for yourself

or I guess putting your own

mask on first because so

many attorneys do deal with like

you're meeting people at the most

difficult, worst time of their lives.

And so you take all that

on and that's got to be a

lot and especially given that you

want to do even more for them.

So how do you guys keep it going?

What do you do to rest and restore

and build yourselves back up for

this?

You want to go first this time, Gabe?

Yeah, sure. We'll mix it up. So

my wife is really good at tennis.

I don't know if this is restoration for

me or just like a beat down that I like

to partake in. I don't know.

But we play tennis together and I very

much enjoy that because it's just a place

to go and think about hitting a ball.

Just forget about what

you got and do that.

Another thing that we really like doing

is going to the Natural Science Center

in Greensboro with our girls

and their joy just like,

I don't know, it just fills our cups.

Hearing them, I'll speak for me,

but hearing them when I come to the

door, scream, "Daddy," and come down.

So getting to watch them around

the animals and everything,

it really fills us up.

So things like that.

Fun, fun. How about you, Audrey? Beating

your husband in tennis is therapeutic?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

It's restoration.

Yes. Yes. That is a weekly

need that I have. No, and

what we did start doing is we

started playing mixed doubles,

so we're playing together,

and that's been really fun.

Most of what we do together is very

serious and intense as far as the

business goes.

And so we found that we really have to

be intentional about separating that

time because we're also,

we're business partners

and business owners now,

but we're also married and parents.

So I think what Gabe said is true. I mean,

we just like spending time with our

girls and Gabe is really good about

being intentional to make sure that

he and I are spending time together.

If it's on the tennis court or

just going to dinner one night,

we just have to prioritize it and we

have to have some of those boundaries

set up. But to be honest,

we love what we do and we talk about

that often. We're very thankful

that we have the privilege of doing

something every day that makes us happy

and excited.

So I know that a lot of people talk

about the boundaries thing and separating

it,

but Gabe and I just like sitting around

talking about cases and strategizing.

So we're big dorks that way.

Well,

we're fortunate too to have both

of you then and that passion that

you bring to it all the time.

I know you've both been in leadership

positions and with various groups in

NCAJ. What is about NCAJ

that works for y'all?

What do you get out of it?

Because you give a lot to it.

Well, that's something that

fills our cup, for sure.

Being around like-

minded people, I really,

really treasure the relationships

that I have in NCAJ,

particularly with the smaller groups

and sections, the women's caucus,

being a part of the

products liability section.

And you form close bonds because you do

similar work and you help each other out

and you get the opportunity to

learn and work with each other,

but you also just do life together.

And our favorite part about

NCAJ is that it gives us

the opportunity to come together

with our people and just be

able to spend that quality time.

And it also gives us an opportunity to

learn from each other and collaborate on

cases. We're plaintiff's attorneys.

We don't work in big giant law firms where

they have all these people to talk to

and meet with and strategize about cases.

We have to pick up the phone and

call our NCAJ members and be more

intentional about that collaboration.

Right, right.

It's two things for me. When I started

off, I started off with my dad.

He only did criminal law.

So I had a passion for personal injury

law because of the car wreck that I was

in when I was in my first semester of

law school. So I was passionate about it,

but I really didn't know what I was doing.

And I will never forget the

people who now I realize are

a very, very big deal who would just pick

up my phone call and talk to me for 30

minutes, 45 minutes.

And they really helped me through a lot.

And so I just feel like I have a debt

that I'm never going to be able to repay

for all that time and the way that

they taught me and were so kind to me.

The second thing is, not to

be true dramatic about it,

but at times I really feel like we're

in a battle. We're in a war with the

people who don't want to let

us tell our client's story

and we've got to be able to get

together. And if we're all separate,

we're not as strong as we are

together. And so being together,

coming up with plans,

coming up with ways to combat that

so we can tell our client's story,

I think is critical and the NCAJ

provides the avenue to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a different

kind of organization.

The Trial Lawyers Bar is, it's

different than the other ones.

So it's awesome that you guys have

found such a great place here.

We're really glad.

And we are very grateful

for your recent donation to

NCHA,

which we're going to use to fund some

scholarships for the NEXT program,

which you are a graduate of Gabe

and which is a great opportunity

to make the kind of connections

that you're talking about.

It was terrific to be in

that seminar yesterday.

I really got a sense of how you guys

connected and worked together and really

just the sense of camaraderie. It was

really palpable in there, I felt like. I.

Totally agree.

And I think the NCAJ is brilliant for

putting that together because when you're

young, you feel like you have to pretend

to know everything because your boss is

watching, your clients are watching,

you have to pretend to know.

It's nice to get around

to other people like,

"Do you know what you're doing?"

No. And then you both just got it.

You build that base and

It's very, very good.

I've learned so much, Jess and

Shannon and that more than just law,

more than just coming together,

but leadership qualities,

how to manage people.

They don't talk about that in law

school. They don't teach you that,

but I do it most of my day, to be frank.

Most of my day is spent doing that,

managing, communicating. And

so really thankful to the NCAJ,

and I'm really glad the donation can

go to scholarships to make sure that

everybody who has the opportunity to

go and that there's not going to be any

financial constraint because young lawyers

really just need to go and do that.

It's life changing.

Yeah.

So we're excited about that and we're

excited about Janet Ward's the gift

also. She left NCAJ $50,000,

and we're going to use that to

go to helping fund a mentorship

program.

The thing about Janet Ward

that I really learned from all

of the memorials and all the

folks who talked about her,

that she always seemed to have time.

She was very generous

with her money, obviously,

and dedicated to tithing and

giving back of her treasure.

But just all these stories

of people who just said,

"I remember when she would just

... " She didn't know me that well,

but she picked up the phone or she

called me or when I called her,

she always had time for me,

which is a real testament to true sense

of generosity because for someone as

busy as she was, obviously,

to be willing to give your time like that.

So NCAJ thought that the mentorship

program would be, scholarships for

that would be a great use of her gift.

Yeah. It's perfect, Amber.

It's exactly in line

with who she was, right?

It's like what you

said, she gave her time.

And I remember one of the very first

things she told me after she hired me was,

"You have to join NCHA." And

that if there's any other

organization that's more important,

it's NCHA and a lot of

that had to do with the

opportunity for mentorship. And

that's something you're right,

and Gabe said this before,

I'm stealing his thunder,

but he said that when

people think about Janet

Ward, the first thing they think of

is not she was a really good lawyer.

The first thing they think of is

her faith and the way that she

sacrificed for other people. And then

they think she's a really good lawyer.

And so for her to have

that legacy set up and

having guidance for the mentors of

the NEXT program just seems so fitting

and so perfect because like

Gabe said, in law school,

you don't learn how to manage people.

Well,

there's really not a whole

lot of opportunity to learn

how to be a good mentor.

It's not something that you

pause and think about, but again,

the brilliance of NCAJ and

you all, your staff is,

you need to take some time and make sure

that the mentors have some guidance and

what the expectations are

and what a good investment

opportunity and a way to honor Janet

Ward. I'm really excited about it.

Awesome. Awesome. We are too. We are too.

And so as we are recording this today,

we are about a week into

the firm's celebration.

It's a 20 day celebration that started

on Janet Ward's birthday, right?

Which was also the 20th

anniversary of the firm, right?

Yeah.

Correct. I know that you guys

have been hosting on social

about memories of Janet Ward.

What else will you be doing as part of

this 20 day celebration to memorialize

her?

Yeah. So Besides doing that, we're sharing

a lot of internal memories. I mean,

we thought about doing a

blowout, having an event,

that would be something that

Janet Ward would've liked,

but the staff and all of

us have been through a lot.

And so we felt like it was

important to spend it as family.

And so Audrey and I are going to

take everyone out to a nice dinner

somewhere that they may not normally

go and host them and a significant

other and just spend time together.

Not work, not talk. I mean,

people can talk about work if they want,

but just come together and

think about the loss because

it's been, Audrey and I talked about this.

I don't know that she and I have

grieved yet in a way. I mean,

we knew about the diagnosis really early

on, but because everything has been,

"Here, you've got to run this firm now,

and there's cases that we need to work

on now." And none of it's really stopped.

And in fact, our work

has gotten more and more.

We wanted to recognize that with the staff

and let them know, "Look, we feel it.

We want you to understand that we feel it.

And so we want to take this time and

just have a nice dinner for you to just

relax and let's just kind of

slow down for a night." And

so that's one of the things that we're

going to do to celebrate, if you will.

Yeah.

And something that's really special

and just neat about the 20 days

is it started on Janet

Ward's birthday and the last

day is March 6th, a Friday. So that's

when we're going to do the dinner,

but there's something really special and

significant about the 6th that we did

not plan, but that is the day for For All,

which is the talk to a lawyer

for free day that Janet Ward

established and set up when

she was president of NCBA.

It was something that she held

near and dear to her heart.

So it is absolutely fitting that

that is the day that we really

celebrate and commemorate her.

And then we will have a big

party with other people involved

later on this year to celebrate

our 20-year anniversary. But first,

we're going to spend that time reflecting

and really just being together.

Like Gabe said,

we just haven't felt like we've had a

moment. When you asked me how am I feeling

at the very beginning, I was

like, "I don't know. " But yeah,

we're really looking forward

to that dinner and honoring

her and to honoring her

in this way through NCAJ.

It's really special.

Oh, that's awesome. Well,

I hope that you guys have a fabulous

dinner and I hope that you get to

slow down and take some deep

breaths because that's just a lot.

Well,

thank you so much for your generous

gift to NCAJ and for all of

your service to the organization. And

thank you for being on the podcast today.

Thank you so much. Enjoyed it very much.

Yeah. Thanks for having

us. Thanks. Before we go,

I'd like to thank today's episode

sponsor, which is Advocate Capital.

Advocate is passionate about helping

plaintiff's attorneys get better results

for clients, mainly through their

AdvoTrack case expense funding service.

It allows firms to track case expenses

and recovering borrowing costs,

which makes the net cost of

borrowing zero on cases they win.

Learn more at advocatecapital.com.

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Thank you for joining us on

this episode of Voices of NCAJ.

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Advocates for Justice and how to join

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please visit our website at www.ncaj.com.