Rory and Greg interview Angie Cooper, a real estate agent from Richmond, VA. Angie first met Rory on the 1999 xHead Onx tour. We hear about how a chance encounter facilitated through "Book Your Own Fucking Life" lead to their friendship that now spans over 25 years.

Angie has worn many hats throughout her life: teacher, tour/merch manager for bands like The Disaster, Strike Anywhere, Avail and Lamb of God, video editor and producer, and now real estate agent. She discusses how punk rock has influenced her the various stages of life and each of her career choices.

Angie also discusses some practical advice for people looking to buy a home in this turbulent real estate market. This is part one of a three part interview.

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And when you were in Wilmington, that's where we met.

That's where we met.

That's where we met.

What year was that?

99.

Yeah, 99.

99.

It's crazy.

You want to tell the story of it or do you want me to?

Yeah, I'll tell my side and then.

You can tell your story.

So, Greg, I don't know if you know this, so Head On.

You're familiar with Head On?

The band.

We were on tour.

I wasn't in the band, but I elected myself to just tag along.

And we.

There was a tour that was booked, and myself and Licky, Jeff and Alicia rolled with them.

And we all piled in the van and we got to.

I think we maybe played one or two shows.

And on the way to the next show, the singer Jeff and bass player John got into a spat while driving.

And John decided to right then and there say, drop me off at this bus station.

I'm taking a bus home.

See ya.

And we're like, okay.

And that all happened.

And at the.

This is obviously pre Internet, pre cell phones.

And there's this wonderful book called Book youk Own Fucking Life by Maximum Rock and Roll.

And that was the bible for us on the road.

And so we found a payphone and Brian's.

I think this was Brian and Jeff's idea.

I'll say Beardy.

So Jeff Ashbrand, the singer, because there's also a Jeff Motion playing drums, and then there's Licky, who's also a Jeff.

So they all had nicknames.

And so I think it was Brian's idea was let's find a beach town and let's find somebody in this book.

And so Angie was the number that was in there that elected to put themselves in this punk rock phone book.

And we called, he answered, and we drove.

I think it was like six to eight hours or overnight or something, but we ended up landing in Wilmington.

Rolling into your apartment or dorm room.

I forget what it was.

Dorm room.

So that summer, I was an orientation leader for freshmen, and I had a room in a dorm, and I was waiting the new crop of freshmen to come in to, you know, get them, show them where their classes were and all that.

So the campus was kind of dead.

So I had this whole dorm kind of to myself.

So I was just like, yeah, sure, just come stay in this dorm.

And it was awesome.

And it created lifelong friendships.

I mean, I went to Motion's wedding.

Amazing.

We've been pals ever since.

Thanks to Book your own fucking life.

And I will say that I'm solo parenting right now.

I know.

It's nine o'clock.

Very risky.

Very risky.

Chris.

Chris is at an EDM show in Buffalo right now, which her brother ended up opening DJing, which is pretty cool.

That's amazing.

And so Flip is sleeping and Ren is quietly in his room right now and hopefully pass out.

Just Ren read a little bit of the Hobbit with Flip and some.

Some Bad Kitty with Ren.

So if they.

If they peek out that we might have another guest.

So that's all right.

The more the merrier.

It's funny because just tonight my wife started reading the Hobbit to Alvy, my youngest.

So we're in.

We're in tandem.

I love it.

Real Hobbit night.

Some synchronicity.

Love it.

So thanks for checking it out and being our first actual interview.

Am I really?

Oh, my gosh, I'm so honored.

Yeah.

And I also kind of secretly love that it's an or.

The first interview is an all vegan interview.

That's awesome.

In May it'll be, gosh, I went vegan in 98.

So what is that?

Can you do the math on that?

I'm not fast at math.

That is 25, 25 years.

26.

25.

27.

27.

There you go.

27 years more than half my life of vegan times.

Woo.

Love it.

That's awesome.

I.

Yeah.

My vegan anniversary is.

Wow.

It's June of this year and it'll be 24 years.

Nice.

That's awesome.

How about you, Greg?

When's your anniversary?

I don't remember the date or the month, but that's.

That's where I met too.

I met.

I think I'm at 24 years, maybe 23.

So I've crossed that threshold though, where it's half my life, which I think if I understand things correctly, like all the cells in my body have like turned over completely now and should all be entirely plant based, I think.

So I think we're just like solid vegans through our core now.

That's awesome.

Sweet.

So, all right, Greg, how do we roll into this?

Do we roll into.

Do you want to just.

Yeah, I'd say let's just start because I found that sometimes the banter before you think you're recording actually is like some of the best stuff.

So usually, if I can.

I should probably edit this part out.

If we leave it in, record that stuff because it can be like a good candid movement.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

The one thing I will mention, I think Greg and I Chatted about this, Angie.

If we do, like, a clap, it's basically just a space for us to possibly have an edit or throw in something in the.

In the.

A good spot for an ad that are.

These folks that we work with have.

So.

So it's not as awkward.

Yeah, that sounds good.

Yeah, totally cool.

And I'm happy to be the guinea pig.

So, like, whatever we need.

If we need to rerecord or go back on anything, I'm all in.

We've been pretty.

Pretty lucky so far, which is great.

Yeah.

So the question I came up with, and I think it's a good introduction to how we even kind of how we would describe ourselves now.

Right.

Would be like, if you went to a high school reunion.

Who are you at the high school reunion?

Like, hey, what have you been up to for the past three decades of life?

What are you up to?

What are you doing?

That's a great question.

And I actually have been to both of my high school reunions, and they've been shockingly fun, so.

Oh, sweet.

Not a hater there.

It was.

It was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'm at my high school reunion.

I'm Angie Cooper.

Still never changed my name.

Cheers.

I am now in real estate.

I am a licensed realtor.

But it took me a long time to figure out what I wanted to be, and a very winding path to get here.

I am a dog mom and a kitty mom and was a foster parent at one point to human children.

I love my job.

I like to travel.

That's kind of the nutshell.

I live in Richmond, Virginia.

Obsessed with Richmond.

It's still wonderful.

That's kind of my.

My high school reunion pitch.

We can unpack all of that or some of it.

You know, we don't have to.

We don't have to get to everything.

So, like, my.

Like, where did you graduate high school from?

I went to Caroline High School, which is about 30 minutes north of Richmond, near an amusement park called King's Dominion that is still really fun to hit.

Yeah.

I went to college or into high school in Caroline and then went to college at UNC Wilmington.

And have been in Richmond with the exception of 11 months in D.C.

since then.

When I moved to Wilmington, I didn't really know anybody, and I wasn't involved in the punk scene there at the time.

It was either my.

I think it was my second year of college.

And, you know, growing up in the Richmond scene, we had such A strong community that I was really seeking that in rich in Wilmington.

And Wilmington did end up having an amazing, like kind of more thrashy scene.

That was really fun.

But at that time I was like, how do I like, build community and make sure I'm still staying involved in punk?

And that's when I submitted my, my number to Fazeen.

It's one of my favorite stories of all time.

Just because of like the great friendships it created.

How wild, like how random is that?

It's so random and I think so pure in it.

Like, I think Greg and I talk about this often as it solidifies that community communal aspect and ability to just put yourself out there and connect with people.

And that's really kind of a beautiful thing of me.

Working in coffee is still something that I gravitate towards.

Greg's in the library system and still opens himself up to community.

And then you as a realtor, you're constantly connecting with people and, and you know, trying to connecting people with housing.

And it's amazing how these connections are still community based.

100%.

Yeah, it's so cool.

And you know, as the Internet and cell phones and everything came along, I feel that we, you know, have.

It's easy to lose touch with that community.

You don't have to work as hard for it.

And if, you know, even the superficial interactions can sometimes feel more meaningful.

But then there are these things we look back on that are very, very meaningful.

And you know, I think it's really cool that a lot of us have carried that into our current professions, if you will.

Careers.

Right, it's whatever, right?

And I was going to school for education, so I got my degr from UNC Wilmington in science education.

And I ended up teaching high school biology after I got out of college.

And that summer I was working at the Plan 9 warehouse.

So Plan 9 is a really cool record store here.

It's been around for decades.

And I was a.

I was the punk and metal buyer for the Warehouse.

And I got a call from Guamper, the bass player for Revail.

And he was like, hey, what do you do in the next two weeks?

And I was like working.

He's like, can you just come with us?

And I was like, okay.

And so I hopped in the van with them and did merch on a two week tour.

I did not re sign my contract to teach.

I stopped teaching and I ended up working for bands for about seven years.

So that degree was worthless, but taught me a lot of skills.

But yeah, I ended up working in music for Quite a long time and got to travel the world and it was very cool.

Yeah.

That brings me into my, really, probably my only interaction with you, which was when you were doing merch for the disaster.

And I think I probably encountered you at like St.

Joe's the homeless shelter that let punk bands have shows in Rochester.

That would totally make sense.

Yeah, I had like, super overprotective parents, but for some reason they had no reservations about like dropping a 15 year old me off at a homeless shelter, you know, under.

You know, at night, under.

In a questionable neighborhood.

Totally fine.

I just want to circle back to the book your own life thing because I feel like, you know, at least on paper, you know, it's.

We have more connections to people in other cities through the Internet and social media now.

But I really question whether that would have happened, you know, once social media had been invented.

I feel like there was just something about kind of the analog connection that makes that possible in a way where, you know, nowadays you just like, I don't know, get an Airbnb or something and not reach out to get help from someone.

Yeah, you wouldn't, you wouldn't make that kind of organic connection, I don't think.

Or it would be.

It would be maybe a watered down version of it.

Right.

Like, I had to, like, think ahead and be like, I want to put my name in this and like, provide a place to stay for bands traveling, yada, yada.

And then you guys had to find that.

Get the nerve to like, call a random person out of a book, be like, we want to go to the beach.

What's up with your town?

You know, and I don't know who else was in.

In it for Wilmington.

It may have just been me and maybe Raph who put on shows down there.

I think maybe just two of us.

Yeah, I mean, I.

I couldn't tell you what the.

And what are the chances that I answered the phone exactly right?

You couldn't text me.

I just picked up the random phone number.

I didn't know.

Yeah.

So interesting when, When, When Guapr hits you up at the warehouse.

Was that your first experience, like, going on tour with the band doing merch?

No, it wasn't.

I think I had done a few things with Strike Anywhere before and Majority Rule and a few other bands like that, just in like, smaller kind of more like friend capacities.

Just, hey, I'm gonna roll on a few dates here and there, but that was my first like, paying gig.

Okay, so, like, what's, what's your, like, merch Table like, Resume look like we've got Strike anywhere.

Majority Rule and Avail, which are all, like, super popular here in Rochester, but what other bands have you.

Have you, like, gone out on the road with?

Yeah, after.

After Avail kind of slowed down.

I started working for Lamb of God, which is, you know, a huge metal.

Band, and I've never heard of them.

What are they all about?

They're great.

So I worked with them for quite a long time.

That was my biggest stint of working for a band.

I did their merch, and then I moved into some more tour management roles.

I was handling a lot of their press on the road.

I was doing all of their mail order fulfillment for a while, which was bananas because I was doing that from the road.

And as they got bigger and bigger, that became super nuts, and we outsourced that eventually.

And then after that, I worked for.

Against me for a little bit.

Danzig.

I got to do a Danzig tour with.

With Doyle on it, and they were playing misfit songs every night.

So that was really cool.

Full circle for me.

Yeah, that's.

There's a few other random little things in there, but that.

That was the bulk of it.

All right, so you, like, definitely win the award for, like, hustle.

Hustling and turning, like, one thing into something bigger.

Hey, I was good at it.

I don't know.

Like, I could.

I could sling some merch and manage.

Manage a crowd of people.

I really like the tour management stuff.

I did that a little heavier down the road.

Stressful, but also very cool.

Yeah, it was.

It was a fun time, but I kind of got tired of traveling a lot and not being able to, you know, keep my relationships at home super fulfilled, and I ended up getting a dog and things like that.

And so I.

I ended up staying home.

And then I got into.

Well, somewhere in there.

Okay, so I'm on tour.

I learned from my landlord that I'm gonna have to move.

And the price was.

Or.

Well, the price was going up to a number I couldn't afford.

And I had a pit bull at the time, my sweet Zeus, who is, like, the best dog in the world.

Rory, you probably met him at some point.

I remember him.

Yeah, an angel.

And I was trying to find housing for us, and there was, like, a lot of breed restriction stuff happening in Richmond at the time.

And I could not find a place that I could afford for Zeus and I.

And one of the guys in Lamb of God had just bought a house, and he was like, why don't you just buy a house?

And I Was like, what?

That's not something I could ever do.

And he's like, yeah, you can just try it.

So I bought $73,000 house in Fulton Hill in Richmond, which at the time no one really lived in.

It was a cute little house and I could have my dog.

And that kind of started my thoughts that like, oh, you know, home ownership can actually be attainable.

And it just, it kicked off a whole thought process that kind of has led me to where I am now.

More backstory.

I grew up with a lot of housing instability.

My family never had much money, we lived in trailer parks, we moved all the time.

I never really even, like I said before, considered that home ownership would be something in the cards for me.

And when I realized that it was, I was like, this can be for everybody.

Like, we don't have to get kicked out of our homes if we can't afford the rent anymore.

We can have some stability with our housing.

We can have the animals we want, we can, you know, paint it black, we can do whatever we'd like to do.

So that, that combo of things really set my course for housing.

But I didn't realize it until much later and there's more story in between there, but I'll stop.

Is there anything you guys want me to.

No, I think that's amazing and I think that it resonates with a lot of folks that with housing instability.

I mean, I grew up moving from place to place when my parents were divorced as a, you know, my mom being a single parent and rent goes up every year and then having to move and figure that out again.

And I believe that oftentimes push comes to shove and you have to make a move that almost makes us change and reevaluate what's possible.

And that's kind of where you were.

And you're like, hey, I'm touring, but I also have this dog.

And then, oh my goodness, like I can afford a home in some capacity.

So many things are possible and I think that's something a lot of people struggle with.

And it's happening harder and harder now with everything that's going on.

And I was like, holy cow, that's crazy.

And I bought my first home for $69,000 in Rochester years and years, years later, which is.

Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting.

And it's a story I share a lot with my.

Especially my first home.

Home buyers who are scared.

You know, it is a scary process, but once you peel back the layers, it's really not that huge of a deal.

It is, but it isn't.

So it's.

Yeah, it's nice to be able to have that story to share.

And, you know, that house afforded me a lot.

Like, I, you know, I held onto it for a decade, and when I sold it, I was able to buy something nicer, and, you know, that.

That just keeps on rolling.

And I was able to provide a house for someone to buy that was nice and somewhat affordable still.

So it's this cool kind of community, passing it down aspect.

Do you still have that house, Rory, that you got?

No.

So we moved just over like, about a year and a half ago, which I left kicking and screaming ultimately, but so we're not in the city of Rochester anymore.

I live out in Canandaigua, which is about 45 minutes.

I remember that.

And so we have five acres.

We have land.

You have a waterfall, too.

Don't leave the waterfall.

Waterfall.

Excuse me.

Yes, there's a really wild waterfall, and it's beautiful.

Are you guys garden.

Are you growing food?

So we're just here the second spring and the first spring.

I wanted to see what was around, so I didn't want to, like, get crazy super fast.

And right now I.

Actually, this past weekend, I was pulling up some just predatory plants that the previous owners had.

So I'm trying to like, re.

Naturalize or do more natural plants that exist in our area.

So.

So I'm pulling out some.

Some Japanese barberry bushes that are.

Have thorns on them and.

But the roots are really beautiful.

They look like turmeric in a way.

They're like yellow roots, which is pretty wild.

But it's.

It's.

Mentally, it's one of those things, like you said initially, you're like, how no matter what the number, like coming from hardcore and punk and not having a lot of money, you know, $73,000, $69,000.

That's insane, right?

That's crazy amounts of money.

And I didn't think I could do it either.

And I did it much later, but I was like, working two jobs and in service and hospitality at the time, and that's just what I did to make it work.

And surprised that I could.

And then spoke like, to everyone, like, the same way.

It's like, buy a house.

Why not buy a house?

It's cheaper than renting.

Well, and it's stable, too.

The problem with rent is that it's just always going to go up.

Your 30 more year mortgage is pretty stable.

I mean, taxes and insurance change occasionally, but it's not the rates at which we've seen rent go up in America.

I don't know if Rochester has experienced that as well, but Richmond sure has.

Yeah, we're, we were.

But the thing that I, like, didn't realize when I did buy the house was that, you know, your, your, your, your rent isn't going up every year, like when you have an apartment.

And as long as your, you know, your wages or your salary kind of grows, maybe not even perfectly with inflation, but as long as you're getting like, incremental raises here and there, it's like it's going to get cheaper or at least feel cheaper as time goes on.

I don't have my first home anymore, and sometimes I get nostalgic for it because, like, my mortgage is like less than $800, which now you, like, can't, you can't even get like a studio apartment in Rochester for 800amonth.

So, you know, it definitely seems like the kind of thing that for people who are trying to build wealth or build something that they can pass on to their kids, it does seem like a good vehicle for that.

And I think Rory mentioned I work in libraries.

We've periodically had, like, workshops where people can come in and learn about the process and get some, like, budgeting help if they need help with budgeting.

You know, we've worked with real estate agents, but we've also worked with nonprofits that do this kind of thing.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

And it's, it's, it's, it's, it feels good to be able to help kind of facilitate that in some way.

But once you get on board and you make it work financially, it seems like it is a viable pathway for a lot of people out of, you know, poverty or just, you know, a paycheck to paycheck situation.

I look forward to the point in time where, like my present mortgage feels as small as $800 feels now.

Right.

Which it will.

I mean, it all is so cyclical.

Yeah.

That's really cool.

That's awesome that your library does that.

I think education is a huge piece of it and that's where my, my teaching background is valuable.

I really like educating the public on, on what is possible.

And you know, there are so many different paths to home ownership.

Like several of my clients, you know, it takes them two, three years to get there, to get their finances straight, to build their credit, to, to save.

And I work with them the whole time.

Like, I will hold your hand for a decade if I need to.

It's just, it can be a long process, but I think for a lot of people, they don't even see it as an option.

So I think that education and what you're doing in the libraries and providing resources and I don't know if Rochester has some housing assistance stuff, but Richmond has some pretty nice programs that, that help people with down payments.

And we have some land grant kind of stuff in Richmond as well.

The Maggie Walker Land Trust Trust is a really cool program where the Maggie Walker Trust owns the land, but you can buy a home on it.

So it's this cool hybrid of, you know, a path to home ownership and you can never sell that property for a ton more than you paid for it.

So it, you know, keeps some affordable housing, relatively speaking.

Yeah, yeah, I think Rochester does have some of those programs and they also have the first time homebuyer programs that are amazing.

And I, I really love the fact that, you know, working with folks that are looking to buy homes that are, you're supporting them through that process for.

No matter how long it takes.

And no matter how long it takes.

Yes.

And the education piece of it, like, like the empowerment, the community, like all of those things that we champion and punk and you know, that, that ethos of like kind of looking out for each other.

I, you know, just really want to take into this, this housing world and.

I don't know, do you feel like that encompasses your vibrancy within that and keeps you grounded and excited to do what you do?

Absolutely.

This job is very hard and very, very stressful.

Like, I've had a few moments, I'm in my ninth year now of doing real estate and I've had a few moments that I have like, wanted to break, but it is this stuff that keeps me alive.

Like, I, I truly am passionate about it.

Like really, like so passionate about housing.

I'M annoying about it sometimes, but, you know, and there are transactions that try to kill you.

But I always have in the back of my mind my story and the story of countless people that I've helped, you know, own a home or sell a home that's no longer serving them.

That's the other thing that we learned a lot during the pandemic.

A lot of my clients were in houses that, that they weren't happy in anymore.

They weren't meeting their family's needs, whether, you know, they were having to homeschool children or work from home.

So the other side of that is helping when somebody's kind of in a home that they're not happy in.

I mean, I think our surroundings affect us greatly.

Right.

So, you know, helping people get out of those situations has been really gratifying too.

And that was a piece of it I didn't really anticipate in the beginning.

Especially, you know, the pandemic really shifted how we view our spaces.

Yeah.

I know a lot of people who had the ability to work from home, and that opened up the possibility of like, moving to some other fundamentally different city while still keeping their job.

And it's discouraging because I see some of that work from home stuff starting to evaporate a little bit in the current climate.

And I feel like, you know, the billionaire oligarch types don't really like that, particularly because it does afford people some sort of economic mobility.

Right.

Freedom.

Terrible thing.

But I guess, you know, you've said a number of things.

Like, I'm curious to hear about how your experience doing the logistics of operating Lamb of God's Merchandise, how that fed into the logistics of keeping track of all the different leads that you probably have working in real estate.

I'm also curious, too.

This is such a volatile time for people who are looking to get into homes.

And I'm so grateful that we have one and that we got in when we did and that we, like, were able to build equity with our first home.

But, like, the reality is I live in a.

I live in East Rochester.

It's a blue collar suburb of Rochester.

It's not the most affluent.

There's a lot of kids going to the school district with my sons, you know, they, they get, you know, free lunch and free breakfast because of their economic situation.

And I don't think I could afford to buy this house today.

And it like, kind of.

It's discouraging because I'm like, not you know, I'm not making minimum wage, I make a decent salary and I can start to feel people like me getting priced out of the, out of the housing market.

Like, I'm also curious to know, you know, in addition to how like punk rock has influenced you as a real estate agent, what advice do you have for people who maybe are coming up through the punk scene?

They're like living maybe a non conformist lifestyle.

They're pursuing kind of their own path in life.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they have a college degree.

What kind of advice can you give those folks so that maybe they can realize the dream of one day owning a home?

Yeah, those are all very valid questions and stuff that I am thinking about every day.

I'll go back to the first question about the logistics, piece of parlaying, stuff that I learned, you know, managing tour stuff into real estate and I skipped a section in there.

I.

After I stopped touring, I got into production.

I worked in advertising and documentary film production.

Ended up in dc.

That's why I ended up in dc.

I was doing production work for the Smithsonian, Nat Geo, Discovery Channel, those kinds of things, which was amazing.

But I did not love dc.

I really struggled.

Did not quite fit in there.

But all of that to say I've always been a very organized person and I think my skill set is really in the multitasking universe and just keeping all of the players in the same game.

Right.

So on tour I'm making sure everybody's doing their job, everybody's where they're supposed to be, you're answering the phone at the right time.

In production, same deal, you know, like making sure all the productions move smoothly and stay on budget.

And then in real estate, I'm managing the lenders and the lawyers and the sellers and the buyers and just I'm.

I feel like I'm a really good matchmaker and like a unifier of all the players.

So I think that's where my strength comes in across all of those kind of different career trajectories.

Yes, it has gotten much harder to buy a house in the past year with where interest rates are and without home prices stabilizing.

So we're still seeing home prices increasing, interest rates increasing.

We were very hopeful that home prices would stabilize when interest rates started to increase, but that has unfortunately not been the case.

Everything is just continuing to increase.

So it's very, very tough.

I could not afford my house now either.

What I would encourage people to do is just start really early.

Like if you think you want to Buy a house like what I mentioned earlier.

Get a plan, talk to a realtor, talk to a lender.

Even if it's like three, four years down the road.

Like just get a game plan.

And a good lender can help you prioritize debt.

So if you've got, you know, car loans, school loans, things like that, they can look at your overall picture and tell you what to work on first to put you in a better position for a home purchase.

I know people are afraid to talk to lenders.

The lender, the two lenders I work with most in Richmond, one was the singer of Brace War, Shout Out Ryan.

Also a hardcore dude, awesome dad of three, lovely guy.

He's really creative and helpful with people with non traditional jobs.

1099 folks.

And the other lender is Peter hall who was in restaurant work for forever.

So we all kind of come from the same background.

So we'll look at somebody that doesn't have a traditional W2 job.

Like most of our friends are, you know, entrepreneurs.

1099 people.

You gotta have two years of work under your belt to even apply for a mortgage.

So you know, we're trying to get creative in those spaces to work with people to allow that also.

I mean, this is not something I've got to.

Well, that's a lie.

I have been part of multiple friends buying a house together.

You know, I helped buy a duplex the other year which was awesome.

So like they all qualified together.

So you know, strength in numbers, right?

And then they bought a duplex where they had roommates.

Right.

So it was like kind of a cool situation.

So I mean I love to think about communal living and like the idea.

I love all these like tiny home communities and stuff people are trying to, trying to get down with.

So I'm all for.

That's, that's my fantasy.

Like when my kids are 18, I'm living in a winterized tool shed or shipping container.

The stuff you own just.

I see it so clearly now.

I don't know why I didn't believe this when I was younger, but the stuff you own just winds up owning you.

And.

But the duplex thing, I've known a couple people who've done that and I've even known people who've just like bought a regular house and then divided it down the middle because that was the only way either of them were going to be able to afford anything.

Resembling homeownership.

So I guess it's good that you've given that your official realtor seal of approval is, like, avenue for folks, and then they can, like, turn around and sell that later and buy their own home.

So.

Yep, yep.

And there's so many.

You know, you buy it under an llc, you have an operating agreement, there's ways to protect yourself and, like, do it equitably.

But yeah, I love the creative thoughts around all of this and that.

That comes from punk too.

Like, if we couldn't figure out what to do, we just did it.

We just made it ourselves.

And like, if the societal rules weren't working, we just did something different.

And it's kind of.

I mean, it's, you know, feels a little weird with housing, but it's possible.

I don't see why not.

Like, why can't we do all of this?

I mean, I love what you're saying so much because why can't we do it is like, that mentality.

And the one thing that I've realized as getting older is that why not talk about money more openly?

Why.

Why do we have to fight against not.

Why is not having money such, like, a stigmatism?

Like, let's talk about it.

Like, that's what the generations believed before us.

And like, it's so silly.

Like, yeah, we.

We should be able to pool our resources for the greater good if we could.

I mean, that's a whole other conversation.

But yeah, you're totally right.

Like, why are we worried about money?

We shouldn't be.

And, like, that's why, like, people are still weird about calling a lender to even get this process going.

Like, you don't know what you don't know.

So, like, call them.

Just.

It's free.

It's totally free to call and talk to a lender.

It's free to talk to me.

None of us get paid until something closes.

So, like, that's the other piece I'm trying to tell people.

Like, there's no risk here.

Like, like, if this is a goal you have, like, why not start it early?

Really?

It's.

It's a.

It's a credit check, which isn't even like a.

A hard pull on your credit.

Like, it impacts you by like, a fraction of a point for a mortgage credit check and tidbit.

You can also get your credit pulled 45 as many times as possible in the first 45 days.

So if you want to shop lenders, you can.

And it counts as one pull.

And that those are the things you Know, I get asked a lot like, is it going to hurt my credit?

Those kinds of things and it really doesn't.

It's free.

Just, I don't know, the education piece again, like people don't know what they don't know because we're not taught any of this in school.

We're not.

Right.

We're not taught personal finance.

We're not taught real estate stuff.

I mean, luckily it's starting to be taught.

My best friend is a teacher in outside of Richmond and she teaches personal finance to high school students.

Amazing, amazing, amazing.

And hopefully your kids will all get that in school now too.

I think, I think they do a better job with that now.

They like shoehorned that in, in like the last three months of like senior year, you know.

But that should have been more like a tiny bit.

Yeah, it should have been more of a focus on that.

There was one other, one other question I guess I had with like you mentioned, like, you know, folks going together, forming an LLC to buy a house.

Is that the type of situation where you might have like two or three people, they form a company.

The company is the entity that buys the house and then they pay essentially the company or themselves.

Instead of having like a rent payment or a mortgage.

Yeah, well, you would still have the mortgage.

So your LLC would be paying the mortgage.

Yeah, you would just have a bank account attached to that that everybody feeds into and you pay it out of there.

But you have your operating agreement that spells out exactly what happens if anybody were to divulge from the home or if they want to sell it as a whole.

Yeah.

It is okay to create legal boundaries and keep friendships.

People please do that.

It can be done.

Then it gets messy.

It can be done.

You know, it is $50 to form an LLC.

It is not a big deal.

And any real estate attorney can set your deed up so that it reflects all of that.

It's really, I, I mean doable.

I mean we, I think we've all been a part of relationships getting really messy without boundaries set.

And it's totally okay to do those things just in protects you and your friendships and others super important.

And I love this the way this conversation is, is going and the question I have big question for you, Angie.

Like if someone wanted to get into your career path, like being a realtor, like I don't hear about people going to school for it.

So there is school for it.

You have to, it's, it's kind of self directed though.

Most of it's online.

You can do it in person at your local real estate governing body of your town or whatever.

Like we have the Richmond association of Realtors that provides the class.

But I did it online.

You have to pass a test and the test is, it's not easy.

Most people fail it about three times before they finally pass it.

I pass it on the first time because I'm a nerd.

But that's the first part.

And then the second part is finding a brokerage.

You have to hang your license at a brokerage.

And I'm at a really cool mom and pop.

We're the largest female owned brokerage in central Virginia.

My broker, Alexis Thompson, is amazing.

She's brilliant.

Yeah.

I'm at a small brokerage.

I would recommend going there versus like one of the big, you know, huge companies just because you get lost in the mix.

We have lots of training for first for new agents.

I would get a mentor.

You know, I try to mentor the younger agents when I can and help them.

Ask somebody to go to coffee with you.

I go to coffee with a lot of people who are kicking this idea around and I'm very, very honest with what it takes to succeed in this world.

It, it is very.

I work 24 7.

Like I do not have a day off.

I, you know, it.

My phone never stops because it's a big deal.

Right.

Like, I have to be there if my clients need me.

Right.

You're a small business.

I'm a small business, yeah.

I'm a small business.

Time really matters.

Like someone would miss a house if I miss a call like that.

That's a big deal.

So, you know, it is a lot of pressure.

It is very, very high stress.

Your partner and friends are going to be mad at you a lot because you're always on your phone or on your computer.

But that's, you know, I'm very real with people about how all encompassing it can be and how important it is to, you know, really be on top of your game just because it is a.

It's a big deal for people.

I formed a team at the beginning of this year with my colleague Anna Shay Khalili, who's amazing.

She's my work wife.

We've been pals for years.

She grew up in punk too.

She's a musician.

She was nominated for a Grammy.

She wrote a song for like a dance, a European dance duo.

She's awesome.

But so we started a team this year to have support.

Support so that we are, you know, always, literally always available for our clients.

So, yeah, anybody wanting to get into this.

Reach out to somebody in your area that you know is a high producing agent that's not a part time person and get the real scoop on how intense it can be.

I won't sugarcoat it.

I mean, I love the fact that you said, get coffee with people.

That speaks to me, obviously.

Yes, always.

Laura, you would love this.

My broker.

As part of our new agent training, we do 30 coffees in 30 days.

So we encourage each new agent to get 30 coffees in 30 days with friends, colleagues, people, family.

So that's a.

That's everybody.

Every agent in our company goes through the 30 coffees in 30 days.

Love it, love it, love it.

It's fun.

You should sponsor that.

Oh, you know what?

You know what reminded me we've seen.

We connected.

You came through Rochester.

You've been to Ugly Duck.

I have.

It's awesome.

That was the last time we got to hang out.

Very long time ago.

Yeah.

Common Thread is co hosted by Greg Benoit and Rory Van Grohl with creative support from Rob Antonucci.

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