Shownotes
In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Jim Kanichirayil sits down with Kiley Ewing, Chief People Officer at McGuire Sponsel, a specialty tax consulting firm based out of Indianapolis, Indiana, to explore what it really takes to build an HR function from the ground up while staring down two of the most aggressive goals an organization can set: doubling headcount and tripling revenue by 2030.
Six months into her role, Kiley isn't just reacting to growth, she's engineering it. With a background in high-performance coaching, neuroscience, and consultative selling, she brings a uniquely systems-oriented and mindset-forward approach to people operations. She shares how she came in and immediately focused on fixing processes before adding people, why she chose Predictive Index as her first tool, and how data-driven hiring helped her build a complementary team rather than a collection of people doing jobs they don't enjoy.
Together, they dig into how Kiley thinks about the intersection of AI and human judgment in hiring, what it means to evaluate HR technology with the end in mind, and why thinking like a business owner rather than an employee is the single biggest unlock for HR leaders trying to earn credibility and drive real outcomes.
Kiley also shares how she's already saved the organization $400,000 in her first six months, why she's building for 200 people now while still at 100, and what it means to balance strategic thinking with a collaborative culture that actually wants to slow you down.
Topics Discussed:
- Why Kiley started with process before people and what that unlocked for hiring
- How Predictive Index works as a complement to human judgment, not a replacement
- The right way to evaluate and select HR technology for where you're going, not where you are
- Using AI tools like ChatGPT to shortcut vendor research and find the right feature set
- Why delegation and complementary strengths are the foundation of a lean, strategic HR team
- The role competency vs. company competency framework in hiring and performance management
- How to avoid the "guess and check" model in talent acquisition with predictive data
- Workforce planning for 200 people when you're still at 100 and why it matters now
- Thinking like a business owner: how Kiley saved $400K in her first six months
- Why you can't fix a bad process by throwing AI or technology at it
If you're an HR leader navigating aggressive growth goals, building out your tech stack, or trying to stay strategic without losing sight of execution, this episode is a practical and energizing look at what future-ready HR actually looks like in the field.
Additional Resources:
Transcripts
I think one, it starts with mindset.
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So I don't ever feel like
I'm in firefighting mode.
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I feel like that is coming from
a scarcity mindset, and I stay in
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an abundance mindset all the time.
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I look at growth as an exciting
opportunity, not as something
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that is scary or stressful.
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I crave growth.
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So I think one is how you're thinking
about growth is foundational.
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Jim Kanichirayil: You're an HR leader
and you're six months into the role and
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you have some pretty aggressive goals in
front of you, one of those goals involves
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doubling your headcount by 2030, and
that's pretty aggressive in and of itself.
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But another part of your goals is to
triple revenue as an organization.
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That is a double whammy of pretty
aggressive goals that you have to have
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a strong role in helping to solve.
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So how do you actually
even begin the process of.
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Accomplishing both of those
pretty aggressive goals.
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when you're looking at any sort of
transformation, you have to consider the
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people, process and technology components
of that transformation, and you need
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to have a framework for executing it.
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Today's conversation will dig into how.
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The foundation has been built to
successfully accomplish those two goals,
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and the person who's gonna be guiding
us through that conversation is Kiley
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Ewing, who's the Chief People Officer at
McGuire Sponsel, a special tax consulting
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firm based out of Indianapolis, Indiana.
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She and her husband started a
high performance coaching company,
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Odyssey Resilience prior to her
coming on board as CPO in 2025.
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She spent almost a decade coaching
high performers in the areas of
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mindset, neuroscience, resilience,
emotional intelligence, NLP, DISC, time
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management, and consultative selling.
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She's passionate about driving
performance through people and empowering,
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scalable success, and we're super
excited to have her on the show today.
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Kylie, welcome to the show.
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Kiley Ewing: Thank you.
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Jim Kanichirayil: I'm looking
forward to this conversation.
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There's gonna be a lot of interesting
angles that we pursue, especially since
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this is gonna be focused more on the
talent acquisition and talent development
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side, which tends to be my wheelhouse.
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So let's get right into it.
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I think the first order of business is
for you to share with us and the audience
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a little bit about the organization
and structure so that we have the
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appropriate context to move forward.
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Kiley Ewing: Sure.
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So McGuire Sponsel is a specialty tax
firm based out of Indianapolis with just
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under a hundred employees right now.
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We are looking to grow and scale
double in headcount by 2030.
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So over the next four-ish years,
we are looking to add quite
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a few new people to our team.
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So talent acquisition has been
a huge focus for me as I have
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come into the organization.
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Jim Kanichirayil: So that's
a pretty ambitious goal to
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double in headcount by 2030.
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Doubling in headcount in any timeframe
is a pretty ambitious goal to go after.
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I guess one of the things that I'm
wondering is from your perspective as an
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HR leader of a hundred person company,
when you think about doubling or tripling
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or just the scaling process, what are
the things that have to be factored
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or accounted for to pull off that
sort of scaling exercise successfully?
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Kiley Ewing: I think of
business broken down into two
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categories, people and processes.
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First thing I focused on was
building up our processes so
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that we can find great people.
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So that was the initial assessment
that I did coming into my
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role about six months ago.
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Finding the right tools, making sure our
processes were buttoned up and smooth.
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And then obviously nowadays is AI.
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How can we leverage AI
to do more with less?
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And the other part of our 2030 vision, our
ambitious goals is to triple in revenue.
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The other big part of this is not
only are we doubling in headcount,
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but we're trying to triple in revenue.
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And so that delta has
to come from efficiency.
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So efficiency is really the name of
the game in every aspect of the scaling
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process that we are focused on right now.
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So I am looking for any and every
tool that can help us do this more
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efficiently, more effectively.
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Jim Kanichirayil: Yes, your goals
are aggressive and you have the
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revenue goals on top of that too.
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One of the things that I'm struggling to
wrap my head around is my understanding
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of an organization of your size,
especially from an HR perspective.
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It's the closest thing to
survival mode that you can
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think of within an organization.
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You probably have one or two people on the
team, and it's just constant firefighting.
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If that's accurate, and even if
it's not, I'm sure there are people
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that are in similar situations
that want to do these things.
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What are the guardrails that you've set up
that allow you to think more strategically
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and get out of that firefighting
mode so that you can double or triple
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head count, double or triple revenue?
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What are the guardrails that you
put in place that allows you the
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space to think about those things
and then more importantly, start
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putting the pieces in place?
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Kiley Ewing: I think one,
it starts with mindset.
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So I don't ever feel like
I'm in firefighting mode.
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I feel like that is coming from
a scarcity mindset, and I stay in
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an abundance mindset all the time.
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I look at growth as an exciting
opportunity, not as something
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that is scary or stressful.
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I crave growth.
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So I think one is how you're thinking
about growth is foundational.
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And I think the other thing that
I did was hire an generalist.
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So Timmy is my wing woman in
our department, and I have
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to trust her completely.
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Delegation, I think is the only way
I can stay strategic in my function
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and I have to trust her fully.
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She takes stuff off of my plate so
that I can stay higher level, and we
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have to trust each other and have open
communication and just stay in constant
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contact so we have those check-ins
on Monday and Friday just to set the
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tone for the week and then also talk
about, okay, how did the week go?
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What do you need from me?
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And then we just stay in constant
communication throughout the week.
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And monthly strategy meetings so that
she knows, Hey, this is what I've
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got focused on my plate this month.
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What do you have on your plate so
that we can stay high level together
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and we have constant communication
on what the priorities are.
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And she knows what I'm
gonna be focused on.
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And sometimes there's things that
I wanna join in on, but I can't.
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So we have to divide and conquer.
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Jim Kanichirayil: So if I'm taking
what you just described and breaking
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it down into sort of fundamental
pieces, there's one element of how you
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establish the right cadences, delegation.
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The other element is asynchronous
accountability for each person's
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areas of responsibilities.
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Three is discipline where
your staying within your lanes
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because you can't afford to like
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cross over into a lot of different lanes.
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'Cause that'll just suck
up your areas of expertise.
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and then four is regular touch points
so that you can gauge progress.
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So that's a nice little framework,
or at least if you're setting
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up a framework of communication
and areas of responsibilities,
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that offers a pretty solid set of
rules for people to operate with.
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Sounds pretty basic, but I think a lot
of people would probably, when they're
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in the thick of it, get a little lost
on how do I even start this process?
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So that gives us a good foundation of kind
of what you were looking at and seeing
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as you get started on this initiative of
doubling headcount and tripling revenue.
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But let's dig into one of the
other pieces that you talked about.
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Which was the whole people
side of the equation.
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And if you're looking to do all of
those things, doubling headcount,
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triple in revenue, there's a significant
people investment that has to be done.
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And when you look at
that people investment,
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what were the changes in the talent
acquisition process or even the
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employee lifecycle that you needed to
factor in as you started building the
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next generation of this organization?
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Kiley Ewing: Yeah.
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Again, I go back to the
people in the process, right?
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So I'm looking at the process and
I'm saying, okay, what's working?
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What's not?
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Where can we streamline things?
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Where can we get more dialed in and
have a little less risk in the process?
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And I think, when it comes to talent
acquisition, the greatest risk is you hire
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somebody and then they turn over, right?
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So we all know the cost of
a bad hire is very high.
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So as we think about, okay, we're gonna
be hiring lots of people over the next
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few years, so we've gotta get this right.
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We've gotta get the process down and we've
gotta be able to continuously refine it.
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So even as I was looking to hire
Timmy, one of the things that
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I leveraged was Active Index.
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It's the first tool that I
implemented when I came into my role.
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And the great thing about this tool
was it gave me a readout of how our
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dynamics were going to be together.
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It predicted how we were gonna work
together based on an assessment that I
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had her take before I even spoke to her.
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So I was able to have a little bit
of an idea of how we would gel before
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I even had a conversation with her.
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And I had already benchmarked the position
to what exactly I was looking for.
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Knowing what my strengths were
and where my weaknesses were,
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because we all have them.
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Knowing that I'm trying to stay high
level and strategic in my role, I need
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somebody who's gonna be focused more
so on details and helping me build
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processes because I know I can't spend
all of my time doing those things if
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I'm gonna be strategic in my function.
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So I looked for somebody with really high
precision and higher consistency so that
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she could be the builder and maintainer
of the systems and processes for me and.
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Lo and behold, she's in the role and
loving all of the things that I hate.
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So it works phenomenally well to have
some predictive data before you get
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somebody into the role and have a guess
and check model with no data whatsoever.
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But you're just going off of your gut
feeling, which a lot of businesses do.
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And there's nothing wrong with
that, but it's a higher gamble
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that I'm not willing to take.
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Jim Kanichirayil: So there's
a lot there to unpack and I'm
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sure people are listening to
that part of the conversation.
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You probably have two camps of
people that heard what you said.
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On one camp you have the people that
are fully on board with assessments
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as part of the hiring process.
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In the other camp, you have people
that are probably looking at
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that stuff and rolling their eyes
because a lot of assessments aren't
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really any better than horoscopes.
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And one particular thing
that I wanna respond to.
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I think you and I both agree
that the cost of a bad hire, is
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exorbitant for every organization.
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My research, from my doctoral research
was actually on retention and turnover.
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And at the time you're looking at
200% of first year salary as the cost
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or replacement cost of a bad hire.
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So we're on the same page there where
you and I might differ and other
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people in the audience might differ
too, is the value of some of these
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predictive tools in the hiring process.
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And my main critique of how
some of these things are used is
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that HR leaders will use them.
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In lieu of actually vetting out or
validating a candidate's capabilities.
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So how would you respond to people that
are on the oh, I don't like these things
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because they're like glorified horoscopes.
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What's your response or what's your
experience to that sort of position?
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Kiley Ewing: Sure.
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One, the assessment tool is
scientifically validated.
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So if you're gonna use an assessment,
make sure it's scientifically validated
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so that you have more of a backbone to it.
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Two, I look at every single
resume that comes through.
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So I'm not sending the
assessment out unless I have
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had eyes on the resume myself.
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So there is a human element to our process
that is only enhanced by AI and data.
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So it's not that I'm replacing my human
expertise with AI, it is complimentary
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to what I know is valuable with my
skillset in seeing so many resumes.
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Because I will say that, i've seen so
many resumes in my recruiting career
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that nothing is going to replace the
knowledge that I have from recruiting.
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Same as you.
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You've seen probably thousands
of resumes, and you're gonna be
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able to draw conclusions very
quickly based on your experience.
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I'm not eliminating that at all.
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In fact, I'm only enhancing that by
saying, okay, is the data confirming
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what I think to be true that this
is potentially a good hire or is it
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maybe disqualifying what I think to
be true and making me second guess it.
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I could still have a conversation and I
have, there's been plenty of candidates
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where maybe the percent match to my
benchmark was 46% and we still hired
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'em anyway because the experience that
they brought to the table was more
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important what the data was telling us.
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So we make exceptions all of the
time, but the data is and always
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will be something that helps us
gain conviction in our decisions.
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And also gives us more of an informed
decision going into hiring this
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person, knowing, okay, they may
not have all of the strengths that
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we're looking for in this position.
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This is something we're
gonna have to manage them to.
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Or this is something that we're
gonna have to coach them on.
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We're okay with that.
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We are making an informed hire with this.
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Jim Kanichirayil: There's something
in what you said that that triggered
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one of my agency recruiter memories.
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So one of the reasons why I have this
sort of position on a lot of these
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assessments is that I was an IT recruiter
and one of the HR leaders that I talked
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to when we are looking at doing a
search for them, they walked me through
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their process and they said, we use
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insert tool name here.
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And I asked them, how do you use it?
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And they said, as soon as we get
an application that comes in, the
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first response that they get from
our hiring team is we send them
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the link to the assessment and
have them complete the assessment.
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Already at that point I'm
thinking candidate experience.
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I was like, ah, that's a pretty terrible
candidate experience, but keep going.
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And then I said, okay, what do you do
with the response when they come back?
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Because I'm already anticipating that
they're gonna have a lot of fall off if
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that's the first step in their process.
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And what they described as a
researcher, like to my brain,
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I was like, oh, and a recruiter,
I was like, oh, this is terrible.
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So what they said was, we get the
response, we look at it compared
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to our benchmark, and if it doesn't
meet our benchmark or ideal profile,
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we don't even talk to those people.
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And I'm like, oh, that's really bad.
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So if people are using assessments that
way, in that hiring process, what are the
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gaps that they need to be thinking about
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that creates not only candidate
quality issues, but potential
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compliance issues too.
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Kiley Ewing: I'm less concerned about
the compliance issues because we don't
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collect information on gender or race.
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So there's no discrimination.
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We're doing based on data.
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In fact, this is actually more of an
unbiased process than anything else.
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we're making informed decisions
based on strengths and whether or not
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you're gonna actually enjoy the job.
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Honestly, I'd rather have people who like
doing the tasks we're about to assign
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to them versus people that were gonna be
forcing square peg, round holes situation.
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I'm less concerned about
the compliance stuff.
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What I would say is, my top performer
on our sales team, aside from our
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leaders, she does not fit the benchmark.
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So I have a breathing, walking
example of an exception that we never
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would've hired if we were excluding
everyone who didn't fit the profile.
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So I look at their experience and I say,
okay, they don't fit the sales profile
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per se, but their entire career history
is sales, that probably means that they've
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come up with some systems that work for
them and they actually do enjoy sales.
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So it's not a square peg,
round hole situation.
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In fact, they've learned how to
adapt to what the role requires.
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So I do wanna talk to that person
because if they're saying, hey, I like
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sales and I wanna do this, then who
am I to say, nope, you're not a fit.
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when their history is
telling me, yes, they are.
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So it's a balance.
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You have to use critical thinking and
leverage the tools at the same time.
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And I think that's where maybe some
organizations are getting it wrong or not
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quite right, and they need to have more of
a hybrid blend of the best of both worlds.
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Because I am a big believer that
AI is not gonna replace humans.
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The humans need to know how to
leverage the AI correctly in
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order to get the most out of it.
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00:17:25,830 --> 00:17:28,861
Jim Kanichirayil: So that last bit of
what you said, I really like, you're
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00:17:28,861 --> 00:17:32,641
hinting at more of a human in the lead
versus a human in the loop philosophy.
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And you and I are on the same
page there where I think a lot
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of people think that they can run
a lot of these implementations
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that involve AI on autopilot,
and we know that's not realistic.
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It might never be realistic.
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but I want you to say a little
bit more about the validation
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process that you go through.
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You implemented this AI
assessment component.
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You have the human
validation portion of it too.
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How does that show up in the
interview process so that you're
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either confirming or rejecting what
the benchmarks are telling you?
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Kiley Ewing: Yeah.
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This tool, maybe unlike some of the other
tools out there, has a customized GPT.
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Her name is Aria, and you can
interact with Aria at any time
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about a profile in the system.
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So I can go into Aria before
an interview and say, Hey, what
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questions should I ask this candidate?
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Here's the job description
they're applying for.
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This Aria already has their profile on the
backend, and I just have to say based on
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their blind spots and the job description.
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What questions should I ask
in this upcoming interview?
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00:18:45,456 --> 00:18:49,716
Aria will kick out some questions
for me to ask that will specifically
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be pointing at some of the challenge
areas that they may have in this job.
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It's helping me get more precise
with my interview questions and get
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meatier answers from the candidate.
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and then again, I have to use my
brain too in this process and in the
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conversation I have with the candidate,
if I'm hearing something that's
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not quite making sense in my head.
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00:19:14,711 --> 00:19:17,861
I double down on it and ask
a second level question.
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00:19:17,861 --> 00:19:21,461
Like if they say something that's not
quite fitting what their profile's telling
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00:19:21,461 --> 00:19:25,721
me, I'll ask them to elaborate on that
or say, Hey, can you share an example
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00:19:25,721 --> 00:19:31,121
of that with me and go a layer deeper so
that we can get more context or get more
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detail or perhaps catch 'em in a lie.
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I don't know.
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'cause a lot of times, especially
if you're interviewing salespeople,
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they're gonna tell you what you
wanna hear, and so you have to be
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very discerning in the process.
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Thomas Kunjappu: This has been
a fantastic conversation so far.
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00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:49,530
If you haven't already done so,
make sure to join our community.
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00:19:49,770 --> 00:19:52,440
We are building a network of the
most forward-thinking, HR and
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00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,620
people, operational professionals
who are defining the future.
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00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:58,710
I will personally be sharing
news and ideas around how we
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00:19:58,710 --> 00:20:00,720
can all thrive in the age of ai.
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00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,065
You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary
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00:20:04,495 --> 00:20:05,105
community.
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00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:06,570
Now back to the show.
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Jim Kanichirayil: I like what you said
about digging deeper in the interview
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process to flesh out the story.
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What are some good examples of second or
third level questions that you can ask
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that really help you identify the depth of
a candidate's capabilities or abilities.
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Kiley Ewing: Yeah.
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It's almost sometimes what they're
not telling me, if I can't get the
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answer I need to hear, it's almost
like that's how I disqualify them.
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I'll give you an example.
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I was interviewing a guy, he was applying
for a sales role and I always ask
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sales professionals what motivates you?
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Any really driven sales professional is
gonna have a very lengthy answer for this.
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One, it should involve money.
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Two, it should involve something
related to their family or things they
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wanna experience or just big goals
that they have because most driven
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00:20:57,795 --> 00:20:59,831
sales professionals have huge goals.
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This guy couldn't tell me anything he
said his family motivates him and he
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just really likes building relationships.
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Stock answer, right?
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So I said, tell me some of the things
that you wanna do with your family or some
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of the goals you have for your family.
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Spend more time with my
family was his answer.
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00:21:18,479 --> 00:21:23,999
He wasn't giving me anything of
substance with this question, so
355
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it was almost what he didn't say
that told me what I needed to hear.
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00:21:28,499 --> 00:21:31,525
So a lot of times it's not exactly
what they're telling me, it's
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what they're not telling me.
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that's giving me more
information than anything else.
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Jim Kanichirayil: No,
I like that example.
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00:21:37,155 --> 00:21:39,255
The motivation example is a good one.
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Although I'd probably not give you the
answer that you're looking for either.
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'Cause, when I'm one of those sales
people that don't fit the mold of
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what a typical assessment tells you.
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and generally speaking,
it's like whenever I look at
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organizations that I want to join,
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it's mission and product.
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If I believe in the mission and I actually
think it's a great product, those are the
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00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:05,120
biggest drivers of me deciding, Hey, this
is someplace that that I wanna work for.
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The external and internal
motivation piece beyond a certain
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level, like that evens out.
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for most folks.
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I think one of the other things,
like for people that are listening
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to this conversation and they want
to think about how do you better
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qualify a potential candidate?
375
00:22:21,970 --> 00:22:25,990
I think Lou Adler has done a
bunch of stuff where he talks
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about outcomes based recruiting.
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00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:31,510
So you always have the job description
stuff, but one of the conversations
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00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:34,750
that you should be consistently looking
at or having a conversation with your
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00:22:34,750 --> 00:22:38,560
hiring managers about is what are
the outcomes that this person needs
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00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,560
to deliver if a year from now you're
thinking that they're a great hire?
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00:22:42,050 --> 00:22:46,010
That's one of the questions that I'd
always ask from a recruiting perspective.
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00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:51,995
Because then it actually opens up
your candidate pool for high potential
383
00:22:51,995 --> 00:22:56,135
candidates that have delivered at a
level that you're looking for or super
384
00:22:56,135 --> 00:23:02,465
experienced candidates that might be
overlooked because of their tenure.
385
00:23:02,735 --> 00:23:06,015
But if they've repeatedly done
this key deliverable that you're
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00:23:06,290 --> 00:23:09,125
looking for, they should be
under your consideration set too.
387
00:23:09,515 --> 00:23:11,945
And then baking in behavioral
questions underneath it.
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00:23:11,945 --> 00:23:12,905
That's pretty standard.
389
00:23:12,905 --> 00:23:16,275
But that should be like a key
recruiting part of the process.
390
00:23:16,635 --> 00:23:19,255
One thing that I'm thinking
about, so you've implemented
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this AI solution on the TA end.
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00:23:22,195 --> 00:23:27,875
As you grow from a TA perspective, how
have you factored in the growth of the
393
00:23:27,875 --> 00:23:32,965
TA side into utilization of the platform?
394
00:23:33,015 --> 00:23:38,145
How do you embed outcomes-based
recruiting into your hiring process?
395
00:23:38,325 --> 00:23:42,325
Kiley Ewing: Well, I wanna comment
on something you mentioned just now.
396
00:23:42,452 --> 00:23:47,362
You talked about what I would
call company competencies, and
397
00:23:47,362 --> 00:23:49,012
we call 'em role competencies.
398
00:23:49,012 --> 00:23:54,232
So when we think about is this person
gonna be able to do the job, part A, part
399
00:23:54,232 --> 00:23:57,442
B is, be a good addition to our culture?
400
00:23:58,447 --> 00:24:02,407
We can break that down into role
competency, company competency.
401
00:24:02,407 --> 00:24:07,837
So when I look at a job description,
I'm breaking it down into role
402
00:24:07,837 --> 00:24:10,897
competencies and company competencies.
403
00:24:11,167 --> 00:24:13,987
Which company competencies
are just our core values?
404
00:24:14,347 --> 00:24:17,722
So how are they exhibiting the
core values of our company?
405
00:24:18,637 --> 00:24:20,707
In their day to day life already.
406
00:24:20,917 --> 00:24:23,287
So are they aligned from a company fit?
407
00:24:23,677 --> 00:24:25,687
And then can they do the job?
408
00:24:25,927 --> 00:24:29,977
So one A is, are they gonna be
a good addition to our company?
409
00:24:30,187 --> 00:24:33,457
One B is, can they do this job?
410
00:24:34,147 --> 00:24:40,432
And arguably, company competencies
are the first priority because I don't
411
00:24:40,432 --> 00:24:44,212
want somebody that's a great fit for
the role but can't mesh with the team.
412
00:24:44,422 --> 00:24:45,952
'Cause we all know that doesn't work.
413
00:24:46,312 --> 00:24:50,812
So that is something that carries
through from the very beginning,
414
00:24:50,812 --> 00:24:54,982
not only in the job description,
but what I interview for and then
415
00:24:55,042 --> 00:24:59,272
from a performance management standpoint,
when we do reviews, it's gonna be what we
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00:24:59,272 --> 00:25:02,152
evaluate them on so it doesn't go away.
417
00:25:02,152 --> 00:25:05,602
And then when we incentivize and
we reward and we give out spot
418
00:25:05,602 --> 00:25:10,942
bonuses, we're doing it based on
those values and the competencies
419
00:25:10,942 --> 00:25:12,262
that we originally looked for.
420
00:25:12,262 --> 00:25:16,107
So everything is super cohesive
throughout the employee journey.
421
00:25:16,776 --> 00:25:19,006
Jim Kanichirayil: So one of the
things that I'm wondering about, you've
422
00:25:19,036 --> 00:25:23,376
implemented this AI solution, you're
going through a pretty aggressive
423
00:25:23,376 --> 00:25:26,086
scaling, process in the upcoming years.
424
00:25:26,671 --> 00:25:29,941
What infrastructure have you put
into place to make sure that the
425
00:25:29,941 --> 00:25:34,741
solutions that you are putting in
now are have a high adoption rate
426
00:25:34,771 --> 00:25:36,511
going forward as your team grows?
427
00:25:38,316 --> 00:25:38,796
Kiley Ewing: Yeah.
428
00:25:38,826 --> 00:25:43,326
So that is something that we
are keeping top of mind with
429
00:25:43,326 --> 00:25:44,676
every decision we're making.
430
00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:49,296
So Clear Company is another platform that
I'm in the process of implementing, and
431
00:25:49,296 --> 00:25:51,846
this has an applicant tracking system.
432
00:25:52,206 --> 00:25:56,016
This has a learning management
system, performance management.
433
00:25:56,256 --> 00:25:58,956
All of it has AI baked into it.
434
00:25:58,956 --> 00:26:03,646
So not only does it do what we need it
to do, but it's on the cutting edge of
435
00:26:04,046 --> 00:26:07,291
what's most innovative right now in tech.
436
00:26:08,431 --> 00:26:10,171
It's gonna be able to grow with us.
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00:26:10,171 --> 00:26:15,691
I've used this platform before about 10,
12 years ago, and they have innovated
438
00:26:15,691 --> 00:26:18,061
significantly since I used it last time.
439
00:26:18,061 --> 00:26:22,621
So it was just a no brainer for me when
I was looking for new tools because we're
440
00:26:22,621 --> 00:26:26,591
moving away from a different applicant
tracking system, that we've just outgrown.
441
00:26:26,591 --> 00:26:29,951
Nothing wrong with it, but we've outgrown
it and we need something a little bit
442
00:26:29,951 --> 00:26:32,171
more advanced for where we're headed to.
443
00:26:32,501 --> 00:26:34,601
And this system is cohesive.
444
00:26:34,601 --> 00:26:35,921
And the other part of this is we're.
445
00:26:35,921 --> 00:26:37,331
On a PEO right now.
446
00:26:37,331 --> 00:26:38,541
So we don't really need an HRIS.
447
00:26:39,761 --> 00:26:43,891
When we move away from the from the PEO,
and we're gonna be looking for an HRIS.
448
00:26:44,681 --> 00:26:47,231
We'll look for one that
integrates with clear companies.
449
00:26:47,231 --> 00:26:51,701
So this is a platform that in my
mind, is going to stay with us
450
00:26:51,701 --> 00:26:56,061
as we continue to grow and bring
on a new tech system for HRIS.
451
00:26:56,081 --> 00:26:59,381
So it's something that I'm thinking
about not only as a solution for
452
00:26:59,381 --> 00:27:03,371
right now, but down the road so that I
don't have to redo all of this later.
453
00:27:04,806 --> 00:27:06,926
Jim Kanichirayil: I wanna sit a
little bit in what you just talked
454
00:27:06,926 --> 00:27:08,726
about and expand that a little bit.
455
00:27:09,056 --> 00:27:10,916
There are people that are gonna
be listening to that part of the
456
00:27:10,916 --> 00:27:13,946
conversation that are also thinking
about scaling their organization.
457
00:27:14,516 --> 00:27:19,316
When you think about the technology
component of a transformation initiative,
458
00:27:20,066 --> 00:27:24,206
what are the things that they need
to have checked off to make sure that
459
00:27:24,206 --> 00:27:29,546
their technology portion of the scaling
exercise is right sized for where
460
00:27:29,546 --> 00:27:30,926
they want to go as an organization?
461
00:27:32,646 --> 00:27:37,296
Kiley Ewing: I'm in this HR Facebook
group and I see a lot of HR leaders
462
00:27:37,296 --> 00:27:39,256
asking, Hey, we're looking for a new HRIS.
463
00:27:40,086 --> 00:27:41,106
What do you recommend?
464
00:27:42,546 --> 00:27:48,546
Terrible question to ask because I think
we do this so backwards all of the time.
465
00:27:48,846 --> 00:27:51,616
One, you need to get
straight on what you need.
466
00:27:52,686 --> 00:27:55,926
It's like saying, Hey, I need
to find a personal trainer.
467
00:27:56,226 --> 00:27:56,586
Cool.
468
00:27:56,586 --> 00:27:57,726
What are your goals?
469
00:27:57,726 --> 00:28:03,636
Because that matters more than who your
recommendation is because your personal
470
00:28:03,636 --> 00:28:09,156
trainer might be great for somebody who
has diabetes or is over the age of 60.
471
00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:13,606
But they don't know anything about, if
you are a power lifter and you're trying
472
00:28:13,606 --> 00:28:15,736
to compete at a national level, right?
473
00:28:15,736 --> 00:28:19,216
So what kind of goals are
you trying to achieve?
474
00:28:19,486 --> 00:28:21,616
Start with the end in mind.
475
00:28:22,066 --> 00:28:25,716
That is like goal setting 101.
476
00:28:26,581 --> 00:28:30,301
Most important thing I could
ever communicate to anybody who's
477
00:28:30,301 --> 00:28:32,641
trying to grow in any kind of way.
478
00:28:32,821 --> 00:28:35,881
Start with the end in mind,
figure out what you're trying to
479
00:28:35,881 --> 00:28:41,641
achieve, and then find the product
that has all of those features.
480
00:28:42,061 --> 00:28:45,481
And if you really wanna shortcut
the process for yourself, just tell
481
00:28:45,961 --> 00:28:48,261
ChatGPT that you need these features.
482
00:28:48,571 --> 00:28:52,501
What HRIS systems have these
features, or what applicant
483
00:28:52,501 --> 00:28:54,271
tracking system has these features.
484
00:28:54,541 --> 00:29:01,231
Use AI to help you find tools because
AI is way faster and more efficient
485
00:29:01,231 --> 00:29:04,621
than any of my Google searches
would have been in this process.
486
00:29:04,621 --> 00:29:05,791
That was all I did.
487
00:29:06,011 --> 00:29:10,001
And just get better at asking the
right questions because I think when
488
00:29:10,001 --> 00:29:14,471
we do that, then you can crowdsource
your referrals and say, Hey, have
489
00:29:14,471 --> 00:29:16,631
you worked with this company before?
490
00:29:16,631 --> 00:29:17,591
What's your feedback?
491
00:29:18,071 --> 00:29:19,091
Get more specific.
492
00:29:19,726 --> 00:29:22,846
Jim Kanichirayil: So I like your point
about getting more specific to build on
493
00:29:22,846 --> 00:29:28,246
that a little bit, there may be value in
identifying companies like you who have
494
00:29:28,246 --> 00:29:32,716
all gone through a similar transformation,
and then leveraging your community to find
495
00:29:32,716 --> 00:29:34,306
out, okay, how did you make that decision?
496
00:29:34,306 --> 00:29:35,716
What did you select and why?
497
00:29:36,016 --> 00:29:39,146
That should be another component
of that process as well.
498
00:29:39,546 --> 00:29:44,621
But what I really like about what
you described is again, beginning
499
00:29:44,621 --> 00:29:48,221
with the end in mind, which seems
pretty cliche, but it's true.
500
00:29:48,311 --> 00:29:51,971
And then identifying the feature set
that you want that's gonna meet your
501
00:29:51,971 --> 00:29:54,101
needs now and also in the future.
502
00:29:55,701 --> 00:29:58,491
There's a process component
of that I want to dig into.
503
00:29:58,911 --> 00:30:02,061
Now, let's say you have a handful
of products that have the feature
504
00:30:02,061 --> 00:30:03,321
set that you're looking for.
505
00:30:03,831 --> 00:30:06,616
How should you evaluate how work is done?
506
00:30:07,416 --> 00:30:10,566
In those platforms to make sure
that you have high adoption.
507
00:30:10,596 --> 00:30:13,736
What are the things that you
look for when you're evaluating
508
00:30:13,736 --> 00:30:14,851
workflows within a platform?
509
00:30:17,436 --> 00:30:21,156
Kiley Ewing: This may not be
the right answer, but I look
510
00:30:21,156 --> 00:30:23,106
at what does it look like?
511
00:30:23,496 --> 00:30:29,736
The UI UX of a technology platform
is probably the thing that I
512
00:30:29,736 --> 00:30:31,776
look at first and foremost.
513
00:30:31,776 --> 00:30:35,436
If it looks outdated and
antiquated, it probably is.
514
00:30:35,436 --> 00:30:39,936
And so many technology platforms
I looked at, I was like, have you
515
00:30:39,936 --> 00:30:42,216
guys not innovated since 2000?
516
00:30:43,746 --> 00:30:47,936
I don't know, it just looks like
their system is completely outdated.
517
00:30:47,936 --> 00:30:52,076
And then once you get into it and
you find out it takes 12 clicks
518
00:30:52,076 --> 00:30:54,096
to get to something super simple.
519
00:30:54,516 --> 00:30:58,596
No, that's not gonna be an
efficient system for us to use.
520
00:30:58,596 --> 00:31:02,766
So user interface is gonna
tell you a whole lot about
521
00:31:03,066 --> 00:31:05,316
whether or not that system is.
522
00:31:06,126 --> 00:31:11,346
One up to date, and two, how
quickly they've been innovating and
523
00:31:11,346 --> 00:31:13,626
elevating their technology platform.
524
00:31:13,936 --> 00:31:18,596
I'm not a technology expert by any means,
so that might not be the right answer,
525
00:31:18,596 --> 00:31:23,606
but that is definitely something that I
feel like has been indicative of quality
526
00:31:23,606 --> 00:31:25,811
of the technology that from my experience.
527
00:31:27,186 --> 00:31:30,561
Jim Kanichirayil: I think what you're
describing from a UI UX is important.
528
00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:34,956
I think the add-on to that piece, I
would make the case that the add-on
529
00:31:34,956 --> 00:31:38,136
to that piece is understanding the
job that needs to be done and then
530
00:31:38,136 --> 00:31:39,996
the process to how to get there.
531
00:31:40,416 --> 00:31:45,786
Because if you implement something that
has a great UI, but the work process
532
00:31:45,786 --> 00:31:49,476
in terms of the internal execution
is so far beyond where your current
533
00:31:49,476 --> 00:31:52,806
state is, people aren't gonna adopt
it just because they're gonna look at
534
00:31:52,806 --> 00:31:58,266
it and go, this is so far away from
like how I currently do what I do.
535
00:31:58,996 --> 00:32:03,816
It's easier for me to keep doing it
my old way than adopt this new way.
536
00:32:04,096 --> 00:32:09,526
the change management piece of how the
UI is laid out of how you actually do
537
00:32:09,526 --> 00:32:13,156
your workflows in there is important too,
because if you haven't answered the change
538
00:32:13,156 --> 00:32:16,636
management question, you're gonna have an
adoption problem on the back end of it.
539
00:32:16,856 --> 00:32:17,996
Real good stuff there.
540
00:32:18,446 --> 00:32:21,776
I wanna wind this back
into a different area.
541
00:32:22,676 --> 00:32:26,366
You've implemented this and you're in
the process of implementing technology
542
00:32:26,366 --> 00:32:31,236
suite as you work through the scaling
exercise, what are the implications
543
00:32:31,236 --> 00:32:35,826
of what you're doing now on workforce
planning as you grow as an organization?
544
00:32:38,106 --> 00:32:38,566
Kiley Ewing: Oh gosh.
545
00:32:39,311 --> 00:32:43,301
All of it is preparing
us for a larger team.
546
00:32:43,781 --> 00:32:50,666
So I have like the future org chart
already mapped out on a piece of paper.
547
00:32:50,696 --> 00:32:56,526
it's not perfect by any means, but,
I have future org chart out and roles
548
00:32:56,526 --> 00:33:00,366
that we're missing and probably future
positions we're gonna have to hire for
549
00:33:00,366 --> 00:33:02,166
over the course of the next four years.
550
00:33:02,586 --> 00:33:06,766
But if systems right now are
clunky for a hundred people,
551
00:33:06,766 --> 00:33:12,346
it's gonna be even clunkier and
more difficult with 200 people.
552
00:33:12,736 --> 00:33:18,486
So we have to fix those things first,
and then we'll be ready for the 200.
553
00:33:18,776 --> 00:33:23,866
It can't be, oh, we'll just fix
it once the 200 are here, because
554
00:33:23,866 --> 00:33:25,366
that is just gonna be chaos.
555
00:33:25,366 --> 00:33:28,361
And I don't really wanna
deal with those challenges.
556
00:33:28,361 --> 00:33:33,311
I'd rather be proactive right now so
that when we bring the people on, they're
557
00:33:33,311 --> 00:33:35,921
like, man, onboarding was so smooth.
558
00:33:36,421 --> 00:33:37,711
Working here is great.
559
00:33:37,711 --> 00:33:38,941
What a great experience.
560
00:33:38,941 --> 00:33:40,681
The culture here is phenomenal.
561
00:33:40,951 --> 00:33:47,191
The operational workflows are so seamless,
and it's really easy to do my job.
562
00:33:47,191 --> 00:33:50,371
And yeah, there's some challenges,
but we're finding solutions every day.
563
00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:53,881
That's what I hope our people are
saying over the course of the next
564
00:33:53,881 --> 00:33:56,401
few years as we continue to scale.
565
00:33:57,711 --> 00:34:00,021
Jim Kanichirayil: I don't wanna
undersell what you just said,
566
00:34:00,121 --> 00:34:03,241
because there's something really
important in what you just mentioned.
567
00:34:03,721 --> 00:34:09,241
And for those that missed it, the key
thing that I pulled out from that is
568
00:34:09,311 --> 00:34:15,091
you can't just throw technology or AI
against a bad process or a bad technical
569
00:34:15,091 --> 00:34:18,871
infrastructure, you have to sort those
things out first and then whatever the
570
00:34:18,871 --> 00:34:21,511
new state is, is gonna be better off.
571
00:34:21,721 --> 00:34:26,371
If you've never worked on the fundamentals
of refining your process or defining
572
00:34:26,371 --> 00:34:31,021
your process, refining your tech stack
and defining your tech stack, it's just
573
00:34:31,021 --> 00:34:35,971
gonna make whatever problems you have
currently worse and more expensive.
574
00:34:35,971 --> 00:34:36,960
So instead of a.
575
00:34:37,591 --> 00:34:39,091
Less expensive, bad problem.
576
00:34:39,091 --> 00:34:41,731
You have a really expensive, bad problem
that you're gonna be dealing with.
577
00:34:42,031 --> 00:34:43,891
So I like how you you've mapped that out.
578
00:34:44,610 --> 00:34:50,751
So you're six months in roughly, and
you have a lot of runway ahead of you.
579
00:34:52,221 --> 00:34:55,971
And you've probably in
that short amount of time.
580
00:34:57,110 --> 00:35:01,341
Already picked up some things that, oh,
I thought it was gonna be this way, but
581
00:35:01,341 --> 00:35:02,991
it actually ended up being different.
582
00:35:03,471 --> 00:35:06,981
What were the key lessons in that
transformation process so far that
583
00:35:06,981 --> 00:35:09,831
you've picked up that's important for
other people to have on their radar?
584
00:35:12,306 --> 00:35:15,546
Kiley Ewing: We have a
very collaborative culture.
585
00:35:15,936 --> 00:35:21,696
One that is, unlike any other
organization I've ever worked with or for.
586
00:35:21,996 --> 00:35:28,686
So it's to the point where I
have to slow down and bring other
587
00:35:28,686 --> 00:35:31,386
people into the fold because.
588
00:35:31,821 --> 00:35:34,641
I am used to just
charging full steam ahead.
589
00:35:34,641 --> 00:35:38,391
And one thing I did not realize
is other people actually wanna get
590
00:35:38,391 --> 00:35:42,981
involved and they wanna be a part of
these change decisions and the process
591
00:35:42,981 --> 00:35:45,141
with me and they want to help out.
592
00:35:45,471 --> 00:35:49,191
And it's not just one person
owning something and doing all
593
00:35:49,191 --> 00:35:50,481
the heavy lifting themselves.
594
00:35:50,961 --> 00:35:53,466
Everybody wants to lend a hand.
595
00:35:53,556 --> 00:35:56,856
And even though they're not getting
paid extra for it, or it's not their
596
00:35:56,856 --> 00:35:59,586
job per se, they still wanna help out.
597
00:35:59,916 --> 00:36:03,696
It's a very cool and unique
culture to be a part of.
598
00:36:03,846 --> 00:36:08,616
People here really love challenges
and want to embrace problem solving.
599
00:36:08,946 --> 00:36:13,296
It is a fun and unique
place to be, and I love it.
600
00:36:13,296 --> 00:36:16,776
I think that's the coolest part because I
have people every day coming to me saying,
601
00:36:16,776 --> 00:36:18,996
Hey, I'd love to take on a new challenge.
602
00:36:18,996 --> 00:36:19,866
What else can I do?
603
00:36:20,821 --> 00:36:23,371
I would much rather have that
problem than the opposite.
604
00:36:24,556 --> 00:36:27,136
Jim Kanichirayil: So you just
mentioned, you realized that you needed
605
00:36:27,136 --> 00:36:29,266
to slow down to bring others forward.
606
00:36:29,266 --> 00:36:33,091
What happened that it
set off that light bulb.
607
00:36:34,876 --> 00:36:36,016
Kiley Ewing: My boss told me, slow down.
608
00:36:37,911 --> 00:36:42,436
Our managing shareholder, oftentimes
has to say, Hey, slow down.
609
00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:43,891
It's okay.
610
00:36:43,951 --> 00:36:44,671
Take a deep breath.
611
00:36:44,711 --> 00:36:46,451
you're going a million miles an hour.
612
00:36:46,451 --> 00:36:48,556
And it's just my natural speed.
613
00:36:48,556 --> 00:36:50,176
And you know what the cool thing is?
614
00:36:50,176 --> 00:36:54,136
The Active Index tells me that my
intensity level is high, and there's
615
00:36:54,136 --> 00:36:57,676
others inside of the organization
who also have a high intensity level.
616
00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:00,696
So I know who my fast paced
people are, and then I also know
617
00:37:00,696 --> 00:37:02,916
who my complimentary people are.
618
00:37:02,916 --> 00:37:03,831
That will tell me.
619
00:37:04,761 --> 00:37:08,601
Hold on, but did you think of this
and also did you remember this and,
620
00:37:08,911 --> 00:37:10,411
how are you gonna get that done?
621
00:37:10,501 --> 00:37:12,091
Oh, I hadn't thought about that.
622
00:37:12,091 --> 00:37:15,991
And also didn't think to bring so
and so into the mix or ask so and
623
00:37:16,326 --> 00:37:17,911
so what the history there was.
624
00:37:18,211 --> 00:37:23,841
So it's really helpful knowing who
my more deliberate paced people are
625
00:37:23,841 --> 00:37:27,941
because they really balance me out and
I feel like we're very complimentary.
626
00:37:27,991 --> 00:37:30,781
Yeah, the Active Index told
me and my boss told me.
627
00:37:30,955 --> 00:37:32,575
It's all in the best way possible.
628
00:37:34,165 --> 00:37:38,845
Jim Kanichirayil: So you've gone a
fairly long way in a relatively short
629
00:37:38,845 --> 00:37:43,105
amount of time and, you're embedding
AI across multiple functions across the
630
00:37:43,105 --> 00:37:47,575
organization and having some pretty big
systems implementations going on as well.
631
00:37:48,085 --> 00:37:52,525
So when you zoom out and you're in
a position to talk to other people
632
00:37:52,525 --> 00:37:55,885
that are considering this journey or
maybe are even in the middle of it.
633
00:37:56,395 --> 00:38:00,475
What are the key lessons and thoughts
that you would have for them in order to
634
00:38:00,475 --> 00:38:02,365
pull off something like this successfully?
635
00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:07,585
Kiley Ewing: I think my biggest
piece of advice would be
636
00:38:07,585 --> 00:38:09,055
think like a business owner.
637
00:38:09,115 --> 00:38:13,225
It came a little more natural to
me because I had my own business.
638
00:38:13,375 --> 00:38:17,455
Prior to coming here and I was an outside
consultant for the firm for five years.
639
00:38:17,505 --> 00:38:22,215
I was a business owner and I had to
figure out how to make my mistakes
640
00:38:22,215 --> 00:38:28,935
and fail fast and recover and be
financially savvy and make decisions
641
00:38:28,935 --> 00:38:31,755
like my own bank account depended on it.
642
00:38:31,785 --> 00:38:34,155
And I still operate in the same way.
643
00:38:34,155 --> 00:38:40,585
Which helps me in a tremendous way because
one, our managing shareholder and the
644
00:38:40,585 --> 00:38:45,195
rest of our shareholders, respect my de
decision making ability because of that.
645
00:38:45,595 --> 00:38:52,405
And I think all too often as employees,
we can into an employee mindset.
646
00:38:52,405 --> 00:38:54,375
It's not my money, It
doesn't matter, right?
647
00:38:54,375 --> 00:38:56,835
There's less risk in spending
someone else's money.
648
00:38:56,835 --> 00:39:02,085
But I think when I approach decisions,
I've saved the company $400,000
649
00:39:02,085 --> 00:39:03,765
in just my first six months here.
650
00:39:03,815 --> 00:39:08,825
It's really important to think
about decisions like it's
651
00:39:08,855 --> 00:39:10,595
your own business on the line.
652
00:39:10,595 --> 00:39:14,695
And I think because I've done that,
it has produced really fruitful
653
00:39:14,695 --> 00:39:20,630
outcomes for the team and our
business and our future growth.
654
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:23,190
And I would say that's my
biggest piece of advice.
655
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:24,990
And also invest in yourself.
656
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,540
Your success is never gonna outperform
your level of self-development.
657
00:39:29,540 --> 00:39:32,810
So invest in yourself and
think like a business owner.
658
00:39:33,975 --> 00:39:34,275
Jim Kanichirayil: Got it.
659
00:39:34,305 --> 00:39:37,435
If people want to continue the
conversation with you, what's the best
660
00:39:37,435 --> 00:39:38,845
way for them to get in touch with you?
661
00:39:40,305 --> 00:39:42,480
Kiley Ewing: LinkedIn is
probably the easiest way.
662
00:39:43,275 --> 00:39:43,545
Jim Kanichirayil: Cool.
663
00:39:43,545 --> 00:39:45,285
We'll include that in in the show notes.
664
00:39:45,565 --> 00:39:48,385
Really good conversation
Kylie and there's a lot here.
665
00:39:48,385 --> 00:39:51,985
This could probably have been a
two hour conversation if we wanted
666
00:39:51,985 --> 00:39:53,815
to get dig deep into these areas.
667
00:39:54,115 --> 00:39:58,465
When I think through what we
talked about, there's two distinct
668
00:39:58,555 --> 00:40:02,495
chunks of, information that I
think are really important for
669
00:40:02,495 --> 00:40:04,655
people to pay attention to on.
670
00:40:04,965 --> 00:40:08,955
The people side when you're looking at
any sort of transformation initiative,
671
00:40:08,955 --> 00:40:14,165
and especially one that comes with an
AI wrapper around it to solve the people
672
00:40:14,165 --> 00:40:18,815
side of the equation in terms of how you
structure your team, the thing that I
673
00:40:18,815 --> 00:40:22,415
took away from the conversation is that
you did a really good job of defining the
674
00:40:22,415 --> 00:40:24,605
lanes that people needed to operate in.
675
00:40:25,055 --> 00:40:28,625
You paid particular attention in
playing to everybody's strengths.
676
00:40:28,895 --> 00:40:33,425
And then, from a team construction
perspective, your mindset was let's
677
00:40:33,425 --> 00:40:37,235
build a team around the gap so
that we have a complimentary set of
678
00:40:37,235 --> 00:40:41,375
people in an organization that is
stronger than the sum of its parts.
679
00:40:41,585 --> 00:40:45,430
So you're not bringing in people
that are gonna hate elements
680
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:47,240
of the job, that are required.
681
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,320
You're actually plugging them in based on
playing to their strengths, which offset
682
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,670
some of the weaknesses that you have.
683
00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:57,090
So when you're solving for people, I think
those three lessons are pretty important.
684
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,980
From a process and technology perspective,
there are also three important lessons
685
00:41:01,980 --> 00:41:04,240
that I took away from the conversation.
686
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,605
One was answering the question,
what am I trying to achieve?
687
00:41:08,875 --> 00:41:11,365
What's the end goal that
I'm trying to get to.
688
00:41:11,605 --> 00:41:14,605
And what should it look like
as I'm getting through there.
689
00:41:14,965 --> 00:41:17,815
And when you answer that second
question, what should it look like?
690
00:41:17,815 --> 00:41:21,475
You need to have line of sight into
what's the job to be done and then
691
00:41:21,475 --> 00:41:23,365
what's the process of getting it done?
692
00:41:23,695 --> 00:41:27,820
And those things come into play
when you're trying to evaluate
693
00:41:28,825 --> 00:41:30,955
how your adoption is gonna be.
694
00:41:31,255 --> 00:41:37,135
Because if your change management process
isn't mapped out well, and people in
695
00:41:37,135 --> 00:41:41,395
the seat are looking at the process of
change as being too difficult, they're
696
00:41:41,395 --> 00:41:45,925
gonna continue doing it the same old way
because the pain of actually switching to
697
00:41:45,925 --> 00:41:51,145
something new is gonna be far greater than
the pain that they're going through now.
698
00:41:51,385 --> 00:41:55,705
So if you're looking at executing a
transformation of any sort, having
699
00:41:55,705 --> 00:41:59,950
those considerations in place is gonna
put you in a position to be successful.
700
00:42:00,220 --> 00:42:01,750
So I appreciate you sharing that with us.
701
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:04,360
For those of you who've been listening
to the conversation, if you'd like the
702
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,110
conversation, make sure you leave us a
review on your favorite podcast player
703
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,490
and then tune in next time where we'll
have another leader hanging out with us
704
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,280
and sharing with us the keys that help
them future proof their HR organization.
