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Commandment #4: Thou Shalt Drive To An Action
Episode 725th April 2024 • • Richard Matthews
00:00:00 00:54:40

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Dive into the heart of podcasting success with the latest episode of Show, where we unravel Commandment #4: Thou Shalt Drive To An Action. In a riveting discussion with Kevin Rundle, we break down the essential strategies for making every podcast episode a catalyst for audience engagement and conversion. 

Learn how to craft compelling calls to action that resonate with listeners, turning passive consumption into active participation. Whether it's boosting sales, increasing subscriber counts, or forging deeper connections, this episode offers the insights needed to make it happen. 

Don't miss out on transforming your podcast into a powerful tool for influence and growth. Listen now and take your first step towards mastering the art of actionable podcasting.


Richard Matthews: [:

Whether you're an entrepreneur, podcaster, expert, or thought leader, you'll discover creative ways to leverage your digital content from blogs to video, from YouTube to TikTok and everything in between. We'll show you how to stand out from the noise so you can directly connect with potential customers, build strategic partnerships, and drive leads into your business.

Get ready for actionable tips and tangible takeaways on improving your digital presence across the board. With that, let's dive into this week's episode of

Hello and welcome back to the podcast. I'm Richard Matthews, CEO of Push Button Podcasts, and I've got my recording buddy here, Kevin Rundle. Kevin, are you there?

Kevin Rundle: I am here, Richard.

Richard Matthews: Awesome.

Glad to have you here. I know last time we talked a little bit about project management and managing your post-production and your podcast. Today we're gonna move back into our 10 Commandments of Podcasting series that we've been working through and talk about thou shalt drive to an action and it's one of the the rules of your podcast.

If [:

Kevin Rundle: I mean, because I've been in marketing so long, the the driving to an action feels like a natural way to talk about this. From a business perspective, I can't, right. If it costs you more to do it than not to do it, not doing it sounds like the right choice.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Kevin Rundle: So those are my initial thoughts, but

Richard Matthews: So

for me,

edia podcast is the podcast. [:

when the podcast is the business, these are your big podcast names, Joe Rogan you know, the Daily Wire, stuff like that where the podcast is the business and the business model is get eyeballs. And with those eyeballs put advertising in front of them. Or saligated content of some sort, right? And that's the model. And so that advertising pays the bills for all of this stuff. And then the podcast itself is a business. So you've got very different KPIs and very different calls to action that you'll be using on those kind of things.

unning a strategic Influence [:

people. And so those prices [:

'cause most of our businesses aren't looking to build thousands upon thousands of followers. They're looking to get their name known in their either local community or in their specific niche. And so we're gonna talk about a different type of ad, which is generally a self-sponsored ad, right?

And so the self-sponsored ad is you know, just as an example. You have your podcast going halfway through the podcast. You're a real estate agent and you're talking about, you know, maybe you're talking with one of the local restaurant owners about you know, their restaurant in the community and whatever's going on in there. Halfway through the show, you might have a short little Twenty-thirty-second thing they like, Hey, this podcast is brought to you by our real estate company, right? So if you or someone you know in the community is looking to move into this community, reach out to us here. Right? That's the end of your commercial.

So it's a self-sponsored style ad. That might be either at the

odcast, the in middle of the [:

Call with us over at Push Button Podcasts, right?

It's a real simple commercial that just lets people know when they're engaging with your educational content, that there is more that they can do, that you actually have an offer in the marketplace. Does that make sense?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. Yeah, makes perfect sense. Yeah.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. So that's the first one.

Kevin Rundle: So when you're talking strategic, oh yeah. I'll let you go. Actually, I'm gonna wait till the end because I, this is gonna be a more overarching question

Richard Matthews: So the second one is direct sales. And so

and I are talking Kevin's my [:

But say you have your Dream 100 clients you can start inviting them onto your podcast and you can use the podcast as a way to build a relationship with them. And to find out how, you know, how you can use your podcast as a direct acquisition of sales, and we'll talk a little bit about how you do that.

But that's the second method is, right. You can invite people that you want to be your clients onto your podcast. And there's some, like I said there's some specific things that you can do to make that not feel like you're, I. Being gross and salesy, but how to make that actually be cool and mutually beneficial for the both of you.

e. And then the third one is [:

so we'll do that and we use we use our podcast to build relationships with people, generally speaking, who either have a stage that we can speak on or have a podcast that we can speak on, or their audience. Of clients is our audience of clients, and we want to be able to build a referral relationship with them. So we'll use the podcast as a way to start that relationship and to build a strategic partnership with them that actually turns into sales down the road. So those are the three

different ways that you can drive revenue with your podcast. Adds to your. Services that takes time. And then the director of acquisition of clients and networking partners, both of those can happen very quickly.

So that's the top-level-like thought processes, there.

, what are the KPIs? Because [:

How many sales do I see? What's the ratios?

Richard Matthews: Yeah,

Kevin Rundle: For the other two, what kind of KPIs are you looking for?

ld be a good client based on [:

And then when it's a yes, then you know, it's like, okay they are, they would potentially be a good client and then you can turn those into sales calls. So that's my sort of gut benchmark is about twenty-five percent of the people when I'm specifically targeting. And that's for either one of those, either strategic partnerships or the direct sales as I'm looking to, if I invite four people on, I'm gonna get four great episodes for my co podcast either way.

So it's a, it's one of those win-win things. I'm gonna get good stuff. We're gonna build that relationship up. And we've built the networking. And then it, a lot of times, a hundred percent of those relationships will turn into something like, Hey, when in the future if they run into someone, they might just, you know, either refer 'em to our podcast or refer them to our services, those kind of things.

So they turn into positive relationships regardless. But as far as like this turns into an actual, like partnership an official partnership or an official sale, my, my goal is twenty-five percent of the people I invite on turn into those. And that's my gut benchmark for those.

y topics. I've been focusing [:

I'm not in control of 25% of people buying, if that makes sense.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

n say, I want to show this to:

, but I wanna make sure that [:

Richard Matthews: Yeah, that's a really good point. And so to that end I do the same thing. So

my recommendation is for all of our clients is that your show is gonna be weekly, right? So you're gonna do. At least four calls every month, right? Four recorded episodes per month. And and you know, some month it's gonna be five, right?

'cause you know, I think March has like five weeks in it or something like that. A few of the months have

five. So it's [:

25 or other 50%, seventy-five percent of them are you or you and someone on your your team, like what you and I are doing, talking.

And we're actually not doing, we're not doing a great job out here on the PBFM podcast 'cause we're actually we're doing all us. Right. But the when you're

Kevin Rundle: I mean, we could change that in the future if that's what it looks like, right.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. But right now we're doing all us, but our recommendation for our clients and people who are looking to drive revenue with their podcast is to have that every other episode just about is an a guest interview.

And so that means, you know, if you're doing two interviews a month right with someone else, I.

ome months, it could be both [:

every month that you're just like, Hey, if I'm doing, if I'm meeting with one strategic partner every month, at the end of the year, if you've met with 12 potential strategic partners, and three or four of them actually turned into like a good call and a referral like it. That's, that can be big, right? So for us, this last year we met

with I probably met with four or five different strategic partners, or maybe even more than that, maybe six. We ended up with three of them saying yes and turning into stuff, turning into like an official relationship. One of them was at the beginning of the year and that one strategic partnership was worth half of our revenue for the whole year. And so it's the kind of thing that can be, and that was, it was over a quarter million dollars in revenue. So it's the kind of thing that you know, depending on your business and depending on like what your price points are for your services and those kind of things, one good strategic partner is worth its weight in gold.

k that can be a huge revenue [:

Or there's lots of different ways you can look at like, what's a high value client look like in your business?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah, so the high value client is a potential strategic partner almost every time anyways.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. And so a high value client when you close a high value client it turns into more revenue generally than what they what their initial, like,

you know. Service fears or whatever. And so if you have

he marketplace. There's four [:

Buy, borrow, build blitz, right? You can buy audience, you can borrow audience, you can build your own audience, or you can blitz, that's like cold outreach audience. And so your podcast is all about building your own audience, which takes time. And what we're talking about

here is that while you're putting in the time and effort to build your own audience, to put your offers in front of people you can also be. Using that time strategically to help borrow other audiences. And that's where, so you we're using the podcast to hit two different categories here and drive leads multiple ways. Hopefully that makes sense.

Kevin Rundle: it makes perfect sense. So then the follow up question is what are the actions They, you've already sold 'em, they want a strategic podcast, they see it's there. What are the things they actually have to do or pay somebody to do to make that work?

Richard Matthews: Yeah, so you have a podcast like this one, right? Where we're actually, you know, we're

h your with your networking, [:

So if you're gonna do high-value clients or

high-value strategic partners. So we'll talk about that first. And then the second one we're gonna talk about the actual driving of leads, which is your calls to action in your actual podcast. So the, on the first side, which is your question, how do you how do you actually turn your podcast into. A leads a lead source with the networking that you do. So the first part is course you have to have who you wanna talk to, right? That's where you're gonna put together your list of potential clients or put together your list of potential partnerships. And so let's assume you have those things.

You invite someone onto your podcast. Here's what I generally do. So the invitation is the first part of that process. 'cause if you invite people on and you say, Hey, I wanna invite you into my podcast so I can sell you my services you're dead in the water, right? Like, that's not what we're looking to do. So what you're looking to do is is ultimately, You want to create value for your audience, and you want to create value for the person that you're bringing on, right? And so as long as you always approaching

how, and we'd like to invite [:

It doesn't actually help entrepreneurs, and entrepreneurs, you know, help change the world. And so we're working to change that narrative and we'd like you to become be a part of that. You get to help contribute to the value of that for being one of our guests. And when you are one of our guests, we'll talk about your business and we'll talk about who you are and what you do in the marketplace, right?

nd we might be interested in [:

then, you know, so we're talking about the intersection of their business and ours, right?

And that's generally what you're doing is you're gonna be talking about some intersection between how does what you do in the marketplace and what we do in the marketplace, you know, what do they call those?

Venn diagram. What's the Venn diagram of our life and our business?

Kevin Rundle: How do they overlap?

Richard Matthews: How do they overlap? Yeah, what's the synergistic stuff? And so when you approach it that way, it was like, Hey, we wanna talk about the synergy between what you do and what we do in the marketplace. That it that'll create a good, valuable conversation for our audience, and we will be putting you in front of our audience, right?

Even if our audience is small or whatever, it's, it doesn't really matter. The idea is that the podcast itself and the discussion we have will be valuable to you. It'll be valuable to me. It'll be valuable to our audience. So that's the first thing. As long as what you're approaching and what you're asking for is we're going to create a valuable piece of.

the marketplace. That's your [:

And so when you're inviting people have that mindset in place, right? Again, that's completely antithesis too. I want you to come on my podcast so I can pitch you, right? That's not what we're looking to do. And so the second step when you get the yes, I'd like to come onto your podcast is we always, I always book 15 minutes before and 15 minutes after the podcast interview. So I book 90 minutes slots, generally speaking 'cause I generally do about an hour podcast. If you do half an hour podcast, you might book, you know, 50 or 60 minutes for the your time slot. And. What your goal is, you want to have some time to talk to them before the interview and some time to talk to them after the interview, right? And so the before interview part is where all the magic happens. I say all the magic, half the magic happens, or the other half happens at the other end. But the, so your pre-interview conversation is where you get permission. To soft pitch them. And so here's what that looks like. 'cause again, our goal is not to just pitch them on your offer. 'cause now you feel gross and yucky and they feel gross and yucky. So we want to avoid that.

And so what we're doing is [:

It's like, Hey Kevin, it's great to have you here. Here's, I wanna just, before we get into the interview, let's take a few minutes and talk about what we're gonna do on the show. And and just, you know, you know, get to know each other so we have good context for the conversation. So can we start off, let me ask you a few questions about your business. Just so I understand you and I can make this really valuable for you. And so I might ask things like, what do you

do in the marketplace? What's your offer? How does, you know, how can we make sure that we're, we are framing the offer well for our audience right. What are some of the things that, you know, you're looking to accomplish in your business as you, those kind of things that just gives me a good idea of like who they are, what they're looking for and we can. We can just sort of make sure that as we're going through the interview, that I'm bringing up their offer and talking about their stuff. So we're actually making it valuable to them and still making it valuable to the audience, right? And so we're building that reciprocity and we're making sure we understand who they are and what their offer is.

Does that all make sense?

ically getting permission to [:

Kevin, would you mind if I told you a little bit about what we do with our company so you understand the context that I'm coming to the conversation from? Right. A hundred percent of the time, the

other person will say yes. Please tell me what it is that you do. Because what you're doing essentially is you're giving them the same benefit that you just got. Right? I understand who you are and what

you're doing in the marketplace. So now we can have a smarter conversation, right, on our podcast. And so what I do then is I have a short version of my pitch that is not actually, it has no close in it, no. Like, you know, hard close or soft close or any of the


Kevin Rundle: It's, it's the it's the before the doors open, part of the elevator pitch.

Richard Matthews: Before the doors open, it's like, is, you know, here's what we do in the marketplace. And so for a push button podcasts, when now you have someone on the hero show, I'll be like, okay, awesome, Kevin, here's what we do. Right? I'm the CEO of push button podcasts, and this is the offer we have in the marketplace.

uestions on that? Yes or no, [:

So you're creating their reciprocity, you're giving them your offer, and then you're gonna get on a podcast interview and you're gonna. Talk for the next 20 minutes, thirty-five minutes, forty-five minutes. Or sometimes like we have like hour and a half long podcasts, occasionally where we really get to dive into and know their story and get to know them and talk back and forth and get to see who they are.

And they get to see who I am and we get to exchange stories with one another. And so that's, that first part is you can get that soft pitch in at the beginning. And so that's part of the whole process. And that's before the interview. And so, if that makes sense, we can stop there for a second.

'cause I wanna talk about how you handle the interview in just a minute. 'cause that's important. But do you have any questions on how you handle the

Kevin Rundle: Yeah makes good sense. I've, and I've watched the interviews, so knowing that's the way you lead into it. I mean, I haven't watched all of them, but I've watched about 50,

Richard Matthews: Yeah,

Kevin Rundle: which I think is pretty good. I might be one of your best viewers.


Kevin Rundle: I know you got a lot. I was gonna watch them all, and then I started just picking the ones I was interested

Richard Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. When they got something that's

that big, it's,

Kevin Rundle: because I'm a human and there's a lot, there's a lot of content

Richard Matthews: yeah.

Kevin Rundle: Literally if you didn't sleep, you'd have 10 days worth minimum.

Richard Matthews: At least. So the that's the first part is you want to frame the first part of the interview before the interview as a way to, to be able to both find out who they are, find out what the value is, give them a soft pitch and then you move into the actual interview portion. And so if that makes sense, I'll talk about how we handle the interviews. So the interview

Kevin Rundle: Yeah, let's do it.

n someone else's podcast and [:

Tell me more about that. So ignorant and curious. 'cause your goal is we want this interview to be valuable to the person who's listening to it, right? And so that's the first part, ignorant and curious. And then the second part is. The mutual exchange of stories, and this

is a really interesting thing to understand.

ight call that person a best [:

And so we actually, we define our relationships based on how much of the other person's stories that we know. Right. And the people that you know the best, right? Like perhaps your wife or your best friend for your whole life, the only way that you actually deepen your relationship with them is to go out and create new stories together, or go have new experiences that you can share with each other, right?

And so that's how we judge the depth of our relationships is on how much the other person's story we know.

Are you ready to amplify your influence and stand out from the noise? Join Richard Matthews on pbp. fm as he explores the power of podcasting, social media, and strategic content to boost your reach. You'll discover the latest trends in video, audio, and influencer marketing. Plus, unlock insider tips to create binge worthy content spotlighting you as a leader.

with your perfect audience. [:

Kevin Rundle: that's a super interesting perspective. I never thought of it that way. You just gave me, you gave me two nuggets. The ignorant and curious, I think it's funny that you use those words 'cause I'm thinking about some cold marketing. I've been, I don't know if it's marketing, but some cold outreach I've been doing recently 'cause it's not really with a cold action.

ot back to me, which is like [:

And it's all been because I've been like, Hey, student here. Don't have anything for you. Could you answer a question within your industry that I can't seem to figure out on my own?

Richard Matthews: Yeah,

Kevin Rundle: and then the second one the idea that relationship or the way we think of other people is based on how many of their stories.

You know, I think that's a brilliant perspective. I've never heard anybody say it that way. There's probably some source that you came to for that, or maybe that's

Richard Matthews: that is.

Kevin Rundle: a Richard original, but

Richard Matthews: That one, as far as I know, is a Richard Original. I've been talking about that for years.

It's my if you go on my LinkedIn profile, my about section, I've got a whole story about that. But it's the reason why

Kevin Rundle: Well, don't worry, I've stolen it.

Richard Matthews: you still, you can use it. Anyone can use it. I think it's, I think it's a really good way to think about how, like anything in business or in life or in your relationships at home or with your family and kids, it's all about the other person's story that you know.

So if you know that you can hack relationships. And so the podcast

is relationship hacking on steroids, right? And it's 'cause you're

leading with value. [:

And so you're leading with value, which is great. And then we're going to. In the podcast, we're going to share stories with one another. And so when I ask someone a question on the podcast interview, whatever those questions are, right, whatever your outline is, this is why it's difficult to like teach people how to do this.

'cause you have to have like your own process and whatever you wanna talk about on your show, right? The hero show, we go through a very specific set of questions and we tell people to tell their stories. On this podcast, we're doing a lot more education, but we're still. Sharing stories and examples back and forth as we go is like, Hey, here's what I'm working on.

Here's what we're working on. We're hearing us share these stories back and forth, and occasionally we'll pull on our family and stuff like that. But the idea is anytime that you ask your guest to share a story or they do share a story in response to to a question that you've asked, your goal then is not to just listen to that story and be great.

, you know, just, we'll just [:

And so we talked a

little about that and then. My response then is I'm looking for in my life, where do I have stories that are similar? And so I was like, Hey, I actually had that happen to me as well. Like I had my 2-year-old, you know, run butt ass naked through the back end of my thing. And now we've shared, we've sh mutually shared a story back and forth, and that's what you're looking for, is you're looking for as many opportunities as

Kevin Rundle: It's a shared experience. We're both blocked.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. You're looking for as many opportunities you can through that podcast interview for them to share a story and then you to look through your bank of stories that you have and share one back with them, right?

udience has heard this story [:

So when people have,

you know, internet fame, it's because your audience knows so much of your story and you don't know any of theirs. Right. And so it's okay to share the same stories over and over again. And I also look at that as. Practice, right? We talked about this, I believe when we talked about listening to we talked about listening to comedians and practicing your stories. And

so practicing your stories, you can practice your stories over and over again with your different guests. And so you end up having a bank of really good stories that you have refined over the course of time which makes you a better communicator.

So it's okay to share the same story with multiple guests.

And so what you're looking at is how can I.

hange with them. And there's [:

Kevin Rundle: a caveat I'd give to that, and I'm just saying this because it happened to me recently, I don't mind hearing the same story from somebody kind of on loop. What I find is that you can give yourself a serious authenticity kick and one of the major creators that I follow. A lot tells the same stories quite frequently, but one of the problems I have with his retellings is sometimes he'll frame them different or he'll do lead-up or the details of the story will change significantly enough that it's jarring.

'cause I already know the story. So be careful to make sure the stories you tell you try to keep consistent.

Richard Matthews: Yeah,

that's a, it's a good point. You wanna.

ry, but you've edited it for [:

As much as you don't wanna hear the same story, people do actually remember the stories you tell them often,

Richard Matthews: Yeah. So stories are how we relate to each other. So if you're going to change the story, generally what I'm talking about is like, which emotion are you gonna

emphasize this time? Or which detail makes the most sense, right? Because you're looking for, in this

Kevin Rundle: Right.

Richard Matthews: how do we connect with the story that you just told, right?

And so, you know. You know, it might be, you know, the story that you just told was about, you know, this thing that was, you know, it was embarrassing to me, right? So I have a story, right? Another story that's similar. I might emphasize the embarrassment of the story where if, when I share it again another time with someone else, it might be you know, a different part of the thing that I might emphasize a different part of the story.

And so you know, you end up with, you know, whatever the story might be a little slightly different. But the idea what I want people to take away from this is what your goal is your goal is to have as many opportunities during the course of your interview to have that mutual exchange of stories. Because if someone

to the end of the interview, [:

You've created value together, right? So there's a lot of like benefits that are building up here, and you've spent the last, you know, however long together sharing stories with each other so you feel connected. You've built that relationship together. And so they know you, like you, trust you. They enjoyed their time with you, right?

They had a good time. They've got. They've got the good feelings together. We're like, I enjoyed spending forty-five minutes with Richard, right? I enjoyed spending forty-five minutes with Kevin. I know a bit about who he is, what he does, how he approaches the marketplace and those kind of things.

issue, I'm looking at how do [:

company. Because you're getting the opportunity to share your values as opposed to just your offer. Right? And so you're getting you get through the course of the interview, you get to. They know your offer, they know your stories and they know a little bit about of your values as well. And so that interview portion can turn into a really I said it's relationship hacking, right?

You have shortened the

amount of time it takes to go from we're strangers to we're friends, right. And we might do business

ng a recording software like [:

er, my goal is I want to get [:

And they teach marketing to attorneys. And so my question to him when we got off of the interview was. I understand that you have stages where you teach to attorneys. Do you think your attorneys have any interest in learning about how a podcast can drive revenue for their business? I have this talk and this talk already prepared. I'd be happy to send them to you to see if that might be a good value, like a value add to your audience, right? And what I've discovered is like you're looking at, you're looking for having resources already put together that you can share with someone and be like, Hey, this would be valuable for your audience.

in some way? And if someone [:

Of your I wanna see how you teach and I wanna see like what the things are. And so we booked that. We actually booked the, that first training call. And that's and you know, and I delivered a teaching to them and he was like. They all loved it. I'd love to invite you on the stage. I've spoken on their stage like six or seven times now, right?

ve already prepared books or [:

Kevin Rundle: Makes perfect sense. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome.

Richard Matthews: When you're talking to direct acquisition of clients there's just a small change, right? And the small change is instead of value to their audience, it's value to them, right? And so when the value to them, what you have generally done through the course of that interview is you're looking for where are you hearing their problems?

Where are you hearing the things that they might be struggling with in their business, and where are the points that you have value that you can offer to them in exchange? So. For push-button podcasts. And for the hero show, I have a whole selection of resources, right? So I've got like a I know for podcasts and for businesses, there's a lot of parts that go into having an offer in the marketplace, right?

the pieces of your business [:

like, that they can actually [:

It's the kind of thing that, like someone would generally pay 500 to a thousand dollars for the kind of information that's in there. And I just I just send it to them afterwards after the podcast

And so I have lots of different things like that. Everything from. From, you know, how to develop content to how, you know, a lot of the resources that we've talked about on this podcast, and lots of other things.

And I have all of those saved, as you know, essentially canned responses. When we get off the interview, I will ask their permission to send them a valuable resource, right? And so depending on what I know about them, I'll put all that in my CRM and I'll have be like, like, Hey, I sent them this one and I've got two or three other ones, and I'm looking at how do I send just two or three. Pieces of like just overwhelming value. And so they'll get

rs because you did the first [:

And now you're sitting there like, now I've got the third thing. And he's now prepared with an offer in the marketplace. For the third thing.

Richard Matthews: And that's exactly what I'm talking about is like, so for me, I know someone's journey. To getting a podcast,

right? I know what all the problems are that people have, and those are all things that I don't offer in the marketplace, right? I have, I could offer all those as services or as products, but instead I have them as in my back pocket as resources that I can give to someone.

And some of them are worth enough. Like they're valuable enough that I could sell them and make them offers in the marketplace, but that's not. That's not what I wanna do, right? I wanna, I have this one offer and I want to scale this offer to wherever. So what you're looking at is if you've read Hormozi's book on creating a good offer, you're looking at all the other problems that people have, solve all those things.

Build those lead magnets, build those resources. And you know, he talks about in that is like, your lead magnets can't be crap, right? They have to be good. Like the kind of stuff that when people get them, they're like, holy crap.

Kevin Rundle: I paid for [:

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

And so like I have those resources and you know, every, like, everything is thought about on those, whereas like the, you know, the videos, the stuff like, I even make sure like the graphic designers do all, you know, a good job making, you know, if it's just a PDF, it's beautiful and it looks good and it's got all the information they need on, it's actually do something in their business with it. And so when I'm looking for that strategic value to a potential high value client, I am going to. Offer them some sort of value directly after the interview. And so now what they have seen from us is they've seen they've seen our initial outreach was good, offering them value.

They get on our pre-interview call and we had that exchange. And they know what our offer is and they have that pitch. And then we go through our interview and we exchange some stories. They know us, they know our values, they know how we think, they know about us, and I know their stories. So they know, we know who they are and we understand who they are.

right? And here's a help for [:

and. You can make soft asks for that. You can start making you, you know, I call it the Bank of Goodwill. And anytime that you do things that are valuable for them and everything we've done at this point has putting, been putting deposits in the bank of Goodwill, then when you go to make an ask of them, right, like, Hey, would you like to work together?

If that's a withdrawal, you are not making the bank account negative, right? Because you've put so much into the bank of Goodwill that when you make an ask it, it doesn't even

make a dent in the, you know,

in the amount of deposits that you've made

Kevin Rundle: And the balance. Yeah.

Richard Matthews: and the balance. And so you can, after you've done that on your follow up start, you can start asking the questions like, Hey, I think you'd actually be a really good fit for a podcast.

Here's why. [:

And you can put those things in and now you can make a more hard pitch to them. And so if you're doing that strategically. Right. Have a CRM, have some, you know, have the resources in place. Your podcast can turn business like clockwork on a regular basis. And so that is the the how you use the networking side. I know that's a long discussion, but does that make sense for how you can use your podcast to


Kevin Rundle: Yeah. It's gonna be a dense episode to digest and we're already coming up on that hour. So, yeah. No, it makes perfect sense. I think this has been one of my favorite conversations we've had in a while, Richard,

Richard Matthews: Yeah, so I,


Kevin Rundle: all of it. Yeah, each step. I mean, I know it's fairly high level when it comes to the interview and stuff, but like I think you're right.

The soft and hard calls to action there are truly like, there is no real hard call to action anyways because even the hardest call is. Is after all that goodwill has been provided?

to that hard call to action, [:

course of my years experience doing this is that even when the answer is no, I don't wanna do this in my business, I. It's always followed up with, but I know someone else who would be a good fit.

How can I introduce them to you? Right. Or I have partners. And so like, it, because you've just built so much goodwill with someone that they're like, I want to do good things for you. How can I help you? And so I get invited to stages

Kevin Rundle: I want you to succeed even if I can't help you succeed today.

Richard Matthews: if I can help you succeed. And so they're looking for ways to do that.

'cause you're.

You're leading with value in the marketplace, which is what everyone tells you to do. And all we're doing here is just showing you how you can turn that leading with value into a strategic set of actions that you can take every single

month on your podcast, right? And it'll just force you to do these things

pportunity for your audience [:

And that's going to be a separate section. Those are the actual calls to action that you have on your podcast for your audience, that they're listening to them. And that's where. They're going to take longer to get to the point where they're going to convert. Right? It's not going to be, you know, I got off the interview with you and I sent you a thing, or they're gonna listen to the podcast interview the first time and then just become a sale, right? They might listen to your show for, you know, six months right before they become a thing, or they might not listen to it all. They just are, you know, they're scrolling through their newsfeed and they see you every day on your podcast thing, and they're like, oh, there's Richard talking about podcasts again.

There's Richard talking about podcasts again, and it's just, they're just not in a place in their business where it makes sense until. It starts to become interesting to them. And then they might listen to an episode or two and then they might hear your call to action. They might hear a few of your stories and then eventually become sales.

So it's the kind of thing that might be six months or two years down the line. But you always wanna have,

you know,

Kevin Rundle: the sales cycle's

they can go. And so on your [:

And we talked about this in the content outlining section. So you've seen this before and I just wanna make sure you see where it fits here. And that's the soft call to action, the hard call to action. So the soft call to action is your on-platform action that you want your listeners to take. Right? And that's the, Hey, if you liked this episode, click the like button and this is subscribe button. Hit that notification bell, right? Whatever it is, it's the On-platform. Action. And so you wanna make sure you have that in every single piece of content that you put out is have that soft call to action that says, Hey, if you liked this, hit the subscribe button, right?

Because if they subscribe to it, they'll get more notifications, it'll show up in your feed more, and that's your goal, right? You wanna show up in their feed all the time. You wanna create that omnipresence. And so the more people that'll take that soft call to action, the better. And then the second part is your hard-called action.

The hard-called action is an off-platform action, meaning

you're gonna have to leave YouTube, you're gonna have to

leave leave the podcast network to go

Kevin Rundle: Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. Wherever you're at, they have to leave. And that's like, Hey, if you really like this content. Right. Click the link in the you know, in the first comment, right?

And go watch the whole episode, right?

If it's one of those [:

ontent so that your audience [:

Kevin Rundle: yeah, it makes perfectly perfect sense to me. We should maybe do some content on on the hard, on the actual process of the hard call to action side later

Richard Matthews: Yeah, like do an actual interview on it and go through the details on like, here's how

you build some calls to hard calls to action. But yeah, I know that's, this has been a very

dense interview on how to how to drive revenue with your podcast.

l commercial where you drive [:

And it's all about driving that value relationship. And the third way is with the networking. Same kind of thing as with your high value clients. And the only real difference is gonna be at the end. Of the interview, who are you providing the value to? And so if it's a strategic partner, you're looking at how do I provide value to their audience?

If it's a high-value client, you're looking at how do I provide value to them? And so. As long as you're building those resources and have a good CRM to follow up with the people you can use your podcast to really drive to drive revenue in your business on a regular basis. And then the last part that we just talked about was the soft and hard calls to actions that are for your audience who are listening to your podcast.

go into actually using your [:

Kevin Rundle: Always to the

Richard Matthews: Always drive to an action. Awesome. So Kevin, thank you again so much for hopping on our podcast and having these conversations with me. I appreciate it and I hope my audience appreciates it as well. And I think we're gonna come back

next time. And we're gonna talk about, I believe the four B's, which we mentioned a bit today, which is buy, borrow, build, and blitz. And we're about how you can. Generate leads in your business and how podcasting actually is beneficial to all four of those categories. So it should be a really interesting interview. And if you've ever read Alex Formozzi's, a hundred million dollar lead, lead flow, he's got four categories as well.

His are great actually, like mine better. I think the buy borrow build blitz is more fun. So, we'll have that discussion and,

Kevin Rundle: I have somebody who does four C's in the marketing world. I can't remember what they are. Connect, communicate. I can find it. I used to know them out by heart,

Richard Matthews: So when we get that interview together, maybe you

Kevin Rundle: All you [:

Richard Matthews: I do, you know, I was at the attention, awareness, authority, buy, borrow, build blitz, like it's a mnemonics to help people remember things. And that's why we, you know, like the 10 Commandments thou shalt drive to an action. Thou shalt be consistent. Thou shalt, you know, have good, like, it's that, that, that literative liter literary repetitiveness helps people remember things. And. Maybe at some point we can do a whole podcast interview on how you do that when you're creating content. 'cause there's a method to that madness. And it it's useful to talk about. So anyways, again, thank you so much for coming on today. And if you're listening to this make sure you like and subscribe to the content.

t, if you found value in the [:

And if you'd like to get help building an omnipresent content marketing strategy with a podcast and you want help, you might want to book a podcast strategy session with us at pbp. fm. Just click the book a strategy session button and book a time on our calendar. We look forward to speaking with you and be sure to tune in next week for our next episode.





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