Welcome back to Dont get this Twisted

This conversation explores the topic of polyamory, the practice of having multiple romantic relationships with the consent of all parties involved. The discussion begins with personal health updates and transitions into an introduction to polyamory. Statistics on polyamory are shared, followed by a detailed account of the speaker's personal experience with non-monogamy. The challenges and emotions involved in navigating non-monogamous relationships are explored, including jealousy, trust, and the impact on emotional well-being. The conversation also touches on the long-term viability of non-monogamy and the societal perception of such relationships. The speaker reflects on their own journey and the lessons learned from their experience. In this conversation, Tina discusses her experience in a non-monogamous relationship and the impact it had on herself and others. She reflects on the sustainability of such relationships and whether they can drive people apart in the long run. Tina also shares her feelings of not wanting to be a second in her own relationship and her desire for a monogamous connection. She discusses the challenges of keeping the relationship a secret and the repercussions of revealing it to family and friends. Ultimately, Tina expresses that she has no regrets and believes in living life to the fullest.

Explicit

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This podcast and website represent the opinions of Robb Courtney and Tina Garcia and their guests to the show and website. The content here should not be interpreted as medical advice or any other type of advice from any other type of licensed professional. The content here is for informational purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare or other applicable licensed professional with any medical or other related questions. Views and opinions expressed in the podcast and website are our own and do not represent that of our places of work. While we make every effort to ensure that the information, we are sharing is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors. Privacy is of the utmost importance to us. All people, places, and scenarios mentioned in the podcast have been changed to protect confidentiality. This website or podcast should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever, including but not limited to establishing “standard of care” in a legal sense or as a basis for expert witness testimony related to the medical profession or any other licensed profession. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast or website. In no way does listening, reading, emailing, or interacting on social media with our content establish a doctor-patient relationship or relationship with any other type of licensed professional. Robb Courtney and Tina Garcia do not receive any money from any pharmaceutical industry for topics covered pertaining to medicine or medical in nature. If you find any errors in any of the content of this podcast, website, or blogs, please send a message through the “contact” page or email DGTTwisted@gmail.com. This podcast is owned by "Don’t Get This Twisted,” Robb Courtney.

i'm good rob how are you

and we're both not sick that's good because it seems like we've been going back and forth so it's nice to see you not coffin and sneezing and right

m

yeah we're both at least getting better so nice it's definitely at the it's at the it's at the end of its rope to almost two months though i bet you by the time i'm better february will be it'll be the end of february it will be almost two months because i got sick new year's eve pretty crazy

yeah

well yeah

is he pretty crazy but yeah it's a beautiful day here in california at least it was it was about thirty nine degrees this morning

yeah it's a little chilly today and it's superb sunday

yeah you know if it is super bull sunday so if you're listening to this on wednesday we are recording on the day of the super bowl not too shabby that's i'm not doing anything i don't have a i don't have a horse in the race so i give two ships who wins that game i'll probably i'll probably see it but i have a few things i'm going to do today before the game starts so we'll see anyway

yes early so we don't miss the super bowl or i don't miss it i don't know what you're doing rob

me too i just like to do it just like to be part yeah

uh check out of social medias facebook instagram twitter and you can hear this show on apple spotify google amazon i heard radio all those cool things go check them out wherever you hear podcast and let's get on to what we're going to talk about since we are still doing february the love and sex month because this is you know that lovable month where we give each other gifts since we talked about valentine's day i had a friend down the street for me who said hey

and you check out this subject and i was like all right what are you thinking and she said polly amory and i was like hey i kind of know what that is because i know some people who have that nonsense in their twitter profile so i was like i will check it out and do some research because i don't really know anything about it so i shot it your way and you're like yeah i know something about that so let's do it and i was like cool let me at least look

m hm

some statistics because you know i don't know anything about it so let's start with the definition just so we can get that out in the open polly amory is a pra is the practice of our desire for romantic relationships with more than one partner at the same time with the informed consent of all parties involved

that does that sound about right

hm

that sounds about right

so basically now that sounds like kind of a weird thing i'm guessing that everyone involved is allowed or is it just you know what i mean like i really don't even know how to go down there is it like a dude that has multiple chicks and none of his chicks cheat or they allowed as well

i think it depends on the couple the people that are involved and what they've made their their relationship lie

okay so there can be rules to said relationship okay kind of like no there is but i kind of like swingers right where you know some some people in the relationship are allowed i guess outside and some aren't i don't know is that also

hm there's rules in every relationship

swingers is a different story because swingers

the connotation is that everybody is doing everybody you know what i mean that's not i don't think that's exactly what polly amory is because that could still be an exclusive thing but it's just opened to more than just two people like a couple yeah

hm

okay

okay sounds good that kind of makes a little more sense i found a few statistics that we can kind of throw out that and i'll kind of give you the high end of both because i think it's more without because they have a pie chart and without getting ithout getting totally crazy um basically the high end of people who say they are is about six percent give er take um there's used to

yeah

okay

and that's about seven and then the bigger the pochard obviously like sixty percent of the country or these people pulled said they weren't the high end on gender is men at about nine percent and women at about four point nine that that say they are let's see

m

kind of makes sense because guys tend to be less monogamous than women

yeah i would agree with that totally that makes a way more sense actually um age so the high end of age is between twenty six and thirty two no i'm sorry between thirty three and fifty five at eight percent followed by twenty six thirty two and obviously once you start getting into the late teens and early twenties it drops to about six per cent

yeah

a race let's see h t looks like the highest is ten per cent and that's black followed by white slash hispanic at eighty eight point two percent followed by asian at six point nine and us white folk at the bottom at six point one per cent not not too far behind sexual orientation

and by sexual highest amount four point fourteen point five m followed by homosexual at eight point seven and hetero at six and let's see religion which religion atheists what do you know eight point three percent top of the barrel followed in by hindu at six point seven yeah never saw that one coming

really

but so there's a few small statistics about the the i guess relationship status is what you would call it is that so we talked about it sort of off air about how are we going to go down this road you know and it's kind of an interesting thing because we all have opinions on like for me personally this would never ever ever ever work for me

hm

ever only because i'm like like i said i don't share very well i couldn't that this would be a mental disaster for me i would i would be it would be on my mind all the time so i couldn't even function under that those circumstances so i would have to be more in a traditional relationship like the sixty percent that was more involved m what is your take on said

hm

hm

relationship status

my take um

i know i led you into that a little a little a little too much but

i'm like that's a little that's a little vague for me so back when i was married i was in a relationship where it wasn't going to be monogamous i was told from the very get that that was not his cup of tea and that um the lifestyle of i guess polly amory i don't know that we really called it that but it was it was going to have to be

let's

something that was a part of our lives or we wouldn't work out so there was a lot that went on to to bring this all about but that's the life style that we had for many years and we our rules i don't know rules i kind of weird word but our thing was there was not to be any other men but that there would be other women and again i knew that

from the get go it wasn't like it was a surprise

and we did that for quite a while so i'm very knowledgeable about what you know what you go through how it is what you know what it takes but you got to give me more questions like what part do you want to know

well well here's here's the thing well yeah let's let's that makes it a little easier so you're leading which is good because like for one we have to start with actually the base line right so you you were told quite early in this i'm assuming

hm

mhm

first what was the what was the first thought let's let's start there

i didn't think he was i mean come on somebody tells you that you're like yeah whatever you know you really think especially then we're talking m twenty two years ago so it wasn't as as common place as it is now although it was starting to to become more main stream but to be honest with you i don't i don't really think about what i'm doing what i'm doing if it's something that that

hm

hm

i do or whatever i don't know that i put a lot of thought into it i didn't i didn't think it was going to be real to be honest with you if you want to know my initial instinct i was like yeah come on whatever who's goin want to do that so i didn't think that there would be any pressure because i didn't think that that was really a thing

so how long into this did it did it happen or did it be brought up obviously on a very serious level not like ha ha

it was always brought up seriously it was m my ex did not pull any punches he was very honest and up front about the whole thing um but when things started it wasn't i can't really tell you maybe like a year into things started to pop off it was very slow because i had never had any experiences with any of that with you know sharing a partner or being with an

woman um so it was

i didn't know what to expect to be honest with you i had no idea how it was going to work if it was going to work and i didn't really know if i cared to be honest with you when you're in a new relationship like you don't have the feelings or emotions that you would have as time goes on so i didn't i didn't put a lot of thought in it he wanted to try it i just kind of was like okay whatever and that's yeah there wasn't a lot of thought just how it went

so so this is while you were dating

yeah yeah we were living together though it wasn't like we weren't together together we weren't married though

okay

right right

so

the marriage wouldn't have even happened if he knew that that i couldn't be a part of it he would not have married me

right well that would make sense i mean there's no reason to get you know nee deep into a marriage and then realize that it's going to get torn apart over something that you knew about the so it wasn't see like to me it's it's a very vague thing at least how it's defined so and i don't know because maybe you know it is different with different people to me it seems like you maybe it's a relationship not

hm

yeah yeah

marriage person that you that you all the partners know but maybe you're having sex with them at different times it's not always one thing together so is that how yours was was done where or was it always all in one

no it wasn't always all in one

okay so it was it was him with another person at some point and then him with you and then maybe all together

hm at times i had to think about that yeah um with when when there was somebody in the situation that that i trusted um things were much different you know because when you trust somebody i didn't need to be a part of everything or in everything and and a lot of it was me testing myself to see if i could even do that if i could even trust

yeah so

the situation not being right there so i did do things to try to like walk away or be separate so that i could even see if i could handle it i was to me i was always testing myself because i didn't realize what boundaries i even had or how i was going to do this or if it was going to you know there was so much questions so many questions i should say that that i experience that i had to

hm

try to figure out for myself so but for the most part we were together

okay

yeah

so um you know it's obviously this is all looking back so it's

do you is there i say i hate to say regret because that's kind of a bad word you were with him for how long

twenty two years

and for how long of your relationship was it like this

i would say that at the end of our relationship when it wasn't happening that was when things started falling apart but for the most part it went on throughout most of our relationship i couldn't tell you exactly when it didn't or yeah

okay

no no no it's more like a percentage of like a lot so we're thinking a lot

a lot was the expectation was that it was supposed to be happening

all the time like there wasn't supposed to be a time when it wasn't the thought was that if there was another woman in our relationship first of all i would never get lonely because there would always be somebody around and women definitely or more in tune with with women things than men are so you know the idea was that it was to benefit a

and too because there wouldn't be you know with working and taking care of the house and the kid and everything else that has to do with it you always had somebody there that would be supportive or helpful you know in a certain way so and that part was true like when there was somebody in in our relationship that was in like in it i would say or like committed to it um there was a lot of

hm

more working together and and friends and and doing things and being close and sex was a small part of that but it was more the being together having other needs met you know because my my ex wasn't very affectionate so if i was sick or if i needed something there was somebody there that but it wasn't him and it kind of like for me i felt like it took it took the the human part

from him too you know that he didn't have to do that or be you know he didn't have to be as much of a husband in the emotional part of things that

hm

that i would have liked you know because i was i was definitely raised catholic when i was younger and being native american you know we have we have totally different values so the way i was raised was more where you know my my dad did a lot for my mom and and i would say that in my relationship i did the most for everybody's emotional well being and mine was left not being

fair

taken care of hm

fulfil yeah and and i just don't think he could do it i just think that we're different people and he comes from a different background and you know that wasn't his forte not i'm not saying he was a bad guy or he was mean or anything he just he was just more on the culture end of the spectrum as far as affection and attention

it kind of reminds me of my friend in north carolina you know we talked about it before that her husband also was an engineer and kind of in the same the almost identical to what you're kind of saying that he was he was kind of colder or aloof and looked at things very differently than um and i hate to say most men but most men when you know that they're just different man

hm

hm

people are different they everything looks everything is a problem and they try to solve it a certain direction instead of throwing your emotion into it so

yeah

no emotion there as it was all reasonable um thought process yeah a critical thinking sort of thing so so yeah so for me having somebody around was and and growing up we always had people in our house there it wasn't like you know we it was just the four of us there was always somebody living there there was always somebody you know taking up space and time and attention you know so i'm

critical thinking critical thinking yet

i'm okay to let people do whatever they're going o do you know if they're around and you know like even as kids like everybody used my parents as their parents so you know you had to learn how to how to just be okay not being the center of attention all the time and i'm really good at that like i'll let people do whatever the hell they want to do and i'll just sit back and watch because i'm entertained anyway so um it wasn't it didn't seem like a far fetched sort of thing i mean

right

fact that could we even make this happen i was like yah i don't see that happening but whatever but as far as my ability to to share i didn't know what it was like but it wasn't as hard as i thought it would be and i often wondered myself is it because i was a little guarded i never fully like fell in love with my x and i do think i did so when i questioned these things it's just questioning um but

hm

i always wondered how i was even able to do that being that i wasn't that wasn't anything that i thought i ever wanted to do

but it wasn't as hard it wasn't as hard as i thought it would be but you really have to check your jealousy at the door you really have to be okay sharing you have to you have to be able to talk and explain exactly what you're feeling and what's what you're going through in order to to keep things going and working um it wasn't easy it wasn't easy at all i mean there at the end of our relationship i was

right

like i was tired of trying to make something happen that i i didn't necessarily believe in um and i said that i said i said you know what if i want to try just being me in you how how why can't we do that why can't we see what it's like and he that wasn't for him that wasn't what he wanted and he said he felt stagnant in in a relationship when it was just one on one and ultimately because i didn't want to

make things work is as i had tried in the past it it it didn't do anything for our relationship it definitely added to blowing it up but at the same time like really if you ask some people people will say well blew what up because you never really had a relationship anyway if if you were going out of your marriage so i struggle with all that trying to

hm

you're like where i went wrong what went wrong went wrong i don't think it was just one thing but that didn't help for sure

all right i don't think it's ever just one thing ever never ever um u i would say you know obviously that's a hard thing to do um it's kind of like polygamy where you know obviously i think they're very similar with the exception of you just marry more people

m right

yeah

yeah it's marriage is involved there was nobody else got married we were

right you know well because there's only a few states that ll actually allow you to do that but but it's a similar thing where i mean i couldn't again having one person's hard enough that's another reason i couldn't do it it being able to i think it's a very bizarre way to live long term it's a short term thing for that i could see working maybe in your in your early twenties to maybe your thirties but once you start getting

yeah yeah

hm

hm

into like your late forties and your fifties and your late fifties you know that's got to be a hard thing to keep up for one sexual desire is going to drop because the people that you're with are going to be you know changing physically both men and women you know so you know once you get into that what how are you going to fulfill your life when your dick doesn't work anymore because that's coming

m hm

well it's not always just about sex though

no no no no i'm just saying the sexual part of it though right now i agree i understand that that that you want more people in your life that that's i'm before we get to that part of it so that part is going to be a sustain the sex part is only sustainable for a long a short period of time you're right the emotional part of that is something different because you're dealing with with different people that may fulfill a different emotional gap for you i understand

yeah

hm

and you know that that to me was very bizarre because the multiple times over the course of the twenty two years with with women that were a part of our our relationship they came to me and said that they had fallen for me not him like and i was like wait i didn't even see that coming because i had you know this was not something that i always wanted so i had no idea that that was even going to be a thing that

part

hm

went on and trying to maneuver through that as best as i could without doing any real collateral damage to anybody because that's you're very vulnerable in a situation like this extremely vulnerable and when it happened like three maybe four times that the women came to me and said that they were in to me and just wanted to be with me and i had to go wait a minute first of all i'm married on

second of all that wasn't part of of this and and you know to be honest with you i didn't fall in love with with them in the same way like i didn't leave my eggs for that i didn't i didn't try to make something more than what than what i ever said that it would be but i was very um i was surprised by that because these were

hm

these were women that weren't they were also not polly amorous before there was none of that that went on so i was kind of surprised by that

so this was also new to them

yeah

wow that so did your x has he been doing this for ever i'm assuming

i would imagine so yeah he did it before me i'm sure but he was in uh another relationship where he was just with her but he he said it failed failed dramatically because of that and other things that were that weren't happening but yeah he definitely said that it was he would never go back to be in with this one

right

hm well

man after that

yeah i can see the emotional part i can see being fulfilled mentally by by more than one person um i mean look that's what generally happens when people say you have like a work husband or work wife where someone at your work is filling that emotional gap um maybe and that sometimes does turn into something it shouldn't turn into and then there's the times where they're literally just your friend

hm

and that's it and and they fill that space and everyone goes home to their real partners and uses that knowledge to you know try to fix theirs or change or make their relationship better it

hm

yeah that really doesn't work from in my experience when when you go from if you're in like like a tree some sort of a situation and and you would go home to to whatever person you're with i don't imagine that would work at all because you realize that the reason that you're doing what you're doing is because it's not working already and then

so there's that part and then um you know that things are so different that the relationships are are so different and there's so many different layers i didn't realize getting into this like how how much when when somebody starts with this you think okay you're just going to have sex with a couple of people not a big deal right it's not that's what you're doing sounds like it could be fun let's give it a shot what what the hell m that's so

right

not just what happens there's it's such a little part of a lot of other things and it does make you question what your sexuality is uh where you're at with things what what you do feel for me i had to turn a lot of my emotion down in order to in order to do what we were doing you know i couldn't i couldn't love as deeply because

hm

i was afraid of getting hurt or being replaced and the funny thing he said you'll never be replaced because who wants to be replaced if you're doing something you know you're always going to be a part of it because why would if i'm if i'm into having more than one woman why would i get rid of anybody you know i'm like that kind of makes sense because you need that in order to go further so but it didn't i didn't feel i don't know i didn't get that

yeah

special feeling that that i got whatever i wanted okay so when this stuff was going on anything that that we asked for we got like he was like you could have whatever the hell you want but i've never been one to need things or or you know gifts and stuff that was it's never been my thing anyway so i really didn't utilize that as best as i could i should lot more considering all the work that that took place in order to make everything happ

right

and and

i don't know i just feel like for me what i needed i don't know that i was going to ever get the way i needed it from him

right well i was just about to say the same thing you were saying like the there is something special about having someone that is is only for you you know what i mean or or they give you that that you know it's a weird thing like you know like i told you before i was a second to someone's relationship which is a whole other story and a whole other thing

hm

but it was hard for me because this person made me feel a certain way let i mean super nuper you know in love but i always knew deep down inside i was always number two and and that was a weird thing but every time i saw er i did feel special so it's this very weird uh feeling to go down but there is something

hm

being special that special feeling that you know that that one person is everything to you so that's why another reason i couldn't do that mostly if and and it's hard enough like being a man there's no way i'd let another dude in my relationship ever never ever but but i'll tell you this being being close to a relationship where someone was with a woman that doesn't

mhm

yeah

right

that was also his his opinion

doesn't help the situation either you know it's just as mentally draining so it's not i'm just one person person so it wouldn't matter like you could bring ten women in and i could bang them all but it's not going to there's also always going to be what is she thinking

hm

yeah

so is she into that more than me what's going to happen this is so to me it's it's a mental drain whether you bring a guy into your relationship or you bring multiple women to me personally i couldn't do it because of how i think mentally it would drain me and i would end up you know gone anyway

hm

well that's that's why i i constantly wondered like where was my head with things because you know i i was able to do this successfully do this for quite a while i was also very undercover none of my family or my friends people that are listening to this for the first time are hearing more than what i've probably ever said to them now i do have my key group that i had to just open up when when we were getting devore

hm

didn't say this was a big part of the problem for me because i didn't want to do this any more and i didn't feel like my needs were being met and he wasn't happy with the fact that i was pulling away so it definitely was a big part of our our separating you know it was because we couldn't successfully make things happen any more but uh yeah just for me i was like wait

right

a minute i really do like having one man to go home to and and if we argue we argue if we get along we get along like i'm good at i'm good at making relationships work i do what i need to do to make things happen obviously i did this for all those years but i got tired of constantly trying to make things happen to keep him happy like one of my one of my friends

says one of my friends said to me you know you you don't you didn't need to have any sort of stipulations on a relationship it was already it's already hard enough and you guys had major stipulations like this was going to be a part of your life you had to agree to this and when i thought about it i was like you know again you know you don't think of it at the time but she was absolutely right there were

stipulations on our relationship the this had to happen in order for us to go further in our relationship in order to get married in order to do all of it and i didn't realize at the time that that's what i was doing um and and let's let me just also say i'm not a victim i do what i'm going to do and nobody tells me any different so i'm not saying anything to to feel sorry for me but i didn't i just

hm

of course

realize what it was going to involve in what it was going to take and emotionally what it would take from me in order to make it happen and be healthy because that to me has always been important like i'll do stupid ship all the time like that's just who i am it's something i haven't tried i'll give it a shot just to say i did but you have to be healthy you have to have healthy relationships you have to be able to um you just have to be able

go through the motions and not get caught up in in all the thoughts and negativity and and jealousy and possessiveness and stuff because first of all that doesn't do any relationship any good but it definitely in this sort of situation doesn't and you know for a long time the sex was a lot of fun it was just you know something i had never experienced before there was a lot going on there was i laugh at everything so you know it wasn't like it was it was bad

what was what was the bad part was

the trying to keep everything going on and make it look normal because i was very much this needs to look normal because i live a life that i don't want everybody knowing my ship which cracks me up that i got this podcast because i can't even believe i'm talking about this i am i really had to be balls today like this was not some when i woke up this morning i said to myself all i want to do is say this

hm

uh

stay in bed i don't even know i don't have i don't even know how to say what we went through um this is going to be an interesting podcast because don't even want to talk about it i kind of feel like i didn't want to talk about it when i was in it and i really don't because i'm back to um not wanting to do it any more so my my opinion on what i want in my life is so different and i realized that even opening up about this i'm going to be judged

lo

anybody i ever get with again so this is

i mean i disagree with that i think that what you're doing is you're pouring your heart out for for what was all in all not a bad marriage okay

no no no i had a really good marriage and we're still really good friends so

that's what i'm saying so like well so much that you talked to him about doing this so

yeah i did i went to him and i said we're gonna we're thinking about talking about this what do you think and he said i totally think you should do it and just be honest

yeah it's like look again people are people are people that like i don't understand it and but it's not for me to say that someone doesn't i mean i know it's not for me and look again being the second in someone else's relationship that no one knew about me it was was difficult enough and and jealousy still exists within that even though you might know the other persons not in a happy relationship there still

hm

yeah

jealousy of time you know like and and that's one of my love languages right time i want someone's time and there is something about that and not having that and having to only see somebody for a small amount of time to get

hm

yeah and you can't share your whole life with that person because they're only with you for a couple of hours that is really hard

no yeah and being able to to go to lunch where your head's on the swivel it's not it's not the greatest but again like i still was fulfilled emotionally you know ten fold like it poured over like what my mental thing was great because what i was getting from that was awesome but there was a strain to that that it was hard because i would

m

yeah

because i knew what was going on in that relationship because we talked a lot so you know

well and but you're not ever going to be able to share christmas dinner with them you're not going to be able to go hey let's go take a ride to the beach because they're there was somebody else and that's

no

yeah or just if telling people about that person

m

you couldn't a small a very small amount of people knew about that so so there's something to it same with you i mean you wanted something to look normal in something that the society isn't so even now i mean if we're being totally honest it's not normal now

yeah

right especially at the time because this was not

you know what it's a lot more common though than i've ever heard before my life and truly i've always looked for people to make it a little more common for me because i this was not common in my world this was not the way that i thought life was going to be for me so now as as we've broken up in divorce i'm hearing about it a lot and i'm not looking for it any more trust me i just if i could go back and just blink my eyes on

not remember any of that i think i would like it was there was a lot involved in that and and nobody really thought about what i was going through or even cared to ask

yeah

so do you think that you know obviously hindsight s twenty twenty and and look we've all done things that we wouldn't have or you know and stupid things like you know if i could go back and change certain relationships or certain things like wrestling my body is so fucked up now that that i feel it every day i wish i could go back and say i never did it

hm

in a second just to feel healthy i agree

no you don't no you don't it's so much of who you were and even when i said even when you cut your forehead and i was like rob you know you're going to get older and you're going to have like these scars on your face do you care and you're like i don't give a funk and so i don't think that you would change and if given the opportunity you'd still do it and we all would you know i wonder what my life would have been had i not done this i really do but i wouldn't have the stories i mean i have really good stories

i'm garet

i mean probably not and

hm

no that's probably true but here's here's the question i was about to ask you though with hindsight it is there things or people that it affected that that um you wish you could change that part if there's is there anyone and again i hate to say victim is there anyone who was wounded from being in that relationship

but

hm

i don't think so

other than you to you think everyone walked away in your life that knew about it is okay

m

you know a couple of them went on to have more of the swinger lifestyle one ended up she's in a relationship with a woman

no i don't think i really do believe that i did everything i could to make sure everybody's heart stayed in tact

one of them said that you know she wanted to be with me and that i broke her heart she didn't look like her heart was broken anyway from you know because we stayed in contact and i know what she was going through i guess she did to some degree but um it was never anything that there was no line there was no everything was right up front talked about i talk about everything anyway you know even even doing a podcast let's just face that so to

um i don't i don't believe that we we heard anybody there was none of that um maybe there was one person that liked me a lot more than i was ever going to like her and i just couldn't i just couldn't find you when you like somebody who just like somebody you can't turn it on turn it off like and i think she wanted me to like her and i just couldn't like we were just to different but outside of

yeah nope

right

right

i don't think that we really blew anything up

okay well see i think that's a huge positive that if nothing no one was wounded from this or took it um you know and it damaged them and again that's on them as well but at least in your own eyes you can say that that's good um looking at that style of relationship now though and i mean decidedly not not just you

yeah

do you think it's something that's sustainable

for everyone and i'm not talking just you what do you think the relationship as a as a whole is it a sustainable thing for a couple or do you think that it will drive people apart and then off to a regular relationship long run

i don't know i don't know if people would go back to a regular relationship i'm hoping for that because i just feel like that's where i'm happiest and that's where i want to be um but i don't know because you know it's not an easy situation to do is not you really have to be in check with your emotions and and your trust and your feelings towards things i don't i don't necessarily know

it's long terms terms sustainable because you know relationships aren't long term term any more like people don't go the distance and you know when you go to the go the distance in your in more traditional relationship that's hard enough now if you add more people to the mix there's more moving parts i don't necessarily know maybe two people would stay together where like other ones may drop off come back on i don't know how that works but

i know i don't see it being a lifetime commitment sort of a relationship

did you ever feel like a second in your own relationship

no i'm kind of um in life i would say that i'm more of an alpha female not i'm not that i want to be in charge or anything it's just like i'm the one that people pretty much go to or will that lead the way so i never felt like i was second to anything because i'm just not that person um but did i back up to allow somebody else to be in the forefront absolutely because

okay

hm

yeah but that's allowing that well my whole thing is like that's why i think it's not a sustainable thing for a lot of people because at some point your human nature kicks in and say i'm not getting enough of this and in a marriage it's a whole other thing because you are supposed to be second but in a relationship your you know the two dogs in the fight are one's going to be the alpha and it and

yeah

hm

hm

point you know someone's going to feel second and maybe that's when new people come in and other people leave maybe that's how that works but i m yeah i couldn't imagine that myself i'm just a different cat and i you know it wouldn't end well i mean it wouldn't start that's yeah

m hm

it didn't end well it did not end well um yeah but you know i don't i really couldn't tell you how we made it work i did a lot of soul searching i tried to make it work the best i could because we did have a good relationship the two of us and i'm one as he is a person of their word if we say we're going to do something or try something we do it you know it's it's

i guess we know our limits before we even say yes or no to each other and and so that was just something that we chose and that was what was expected of me from him because we we do um stick to our word but it was also very hard i remember in the end going i just want to know what it's like to walk in the door and there's just one person there for me and whether i can

stand him or i can you know because let's face it not every day is a good day i just want to know that that person's for me and i'm for them and when i go to bed at night i'm going to be hugging him

exactly i totally agree with that statement that's i i am that i'm like you know you know me more than than more you know most i'm a hopeless romantic i love that idea like there are going to be days that should and that's just a fact and there's days that are going to be overly good to where you're always striving to hit that that high again of whatever that day is um but i i definite

hm

yeah

hm

yeah yeah

we love that idea and again as you get older i think you're looking more for that emotional stability as coming home to having that one person that you just got to look in their like looking in their eyes i love that i'm an i person there's nothing like looking in somebody's eyes and reading them and then sitting on the couch and cuddling and then you're right in that last thing before you go to bed it's them you know

hm

yeah

so it's an interesting life style to me i i again couldn't do it and my friend down the street was like yeah you know because she said the same thing because i don't understand it that just you know it's a and i get it because it's not the social norm the social norm is that

well if you if you just look at it that all it is is sex there's you're not going to get it um when when women take care of each other their needs are met more that's just given men and women have struggled with that forever so that part of it was good like that was a solid thing to have somebody that did understand you or you know we used to team up on him at times too because like they saw the

they saw that he wasn't doing what he needed to be and that was kind of cool too because when that happened i was always right because two of us were right you know so if we're both saying it then he had to deal with that so that part was was was good or the yeah or if i worked late you know she would take on my roles of getting dinner done or you know and and he never cooked for me

yeah

man two headaches

um so that was kind of cool i was like wait somebody made dinner and i don't have to so there were a lot of elements to that that was it was okay it wasn't bad um you know the sex was when it was on was off the chain you know it was something i hadn't experience before so that was all cool it's

hm

there was a lot of good things about it i'm not saying that there weren't but it's very hard to keep if you think it's hard to keep one person happy try keeping two people happy you know and then and then throw kids into the mix you know um that's another realm because we tried to we kept that all silent from from the kid you know so it was living living a life

that's what i mean i don't want that

hm

you constantly have to be in a secret for me was so hard the secrets i'm not good at that the not you know not telling people what's going on with me is very difficult not being honest about what was going on was was horrible for me it was it was lonely because i couldn't talk about it

yeah i couldn't i mean again being the second in something where the people i could talk to was easy she was in something where it was a secret every single day and and it wears people down it does and you know selfishly looking at it you know i was like i'm getting things met and obviously i think in some

hm

yeah

so is she but the mental strain on you must have been how do i make sure that no one gets this or sees this and everyone

my mom my dad like uh yeah but my friends you know when okay so when i decided to get divorced everybody was like what happened because you guys didn't look like life was that bad at all like i everybody came to me for advice and and i'm pretty good with the advice you know i had a lot i see a lot of things but it was also because of what i was doing

everyone though because you know you have a lot of friends

so

going through um it was you know so it it just not being transparent was very hard like that was the hardest part of it and not go ahead

did

did anyone know

um

like or did or did they come back to you later and go i thought things were kind of different or that was weird then and but they just kind of let it go

yeah then the next door neighbor that had heard things she is literally right next door she she ended up finding out but no not too many people did to be honest i kept it very well hidden um i'm kind of concerned now because like family friends that still don't know listen to the podcast and they're going to know i have clients that listen to the podcast and they're going to know and it's not something i talk about at work at all so

oh yeah well yeah but she was like literally next door like yeah

sure

i kept it very very well contained my mom and dad ended up finding out um that was horrible probably about ten years later now maybe five years later and my mom was devastated and cried and couldn't believe it and how could you ruin your life and allah my dad swept it under the rug and we don't we just don't talk about it so that was hard becaus

you know weird

right

s i didn't want them to know what i was doing i guess i was a little bit ashamed of it of course a little bit was an understatement but yeah yeah

but i think that's societal it's a societal shame i understand i mean again nobody most people want to go with the flow of the river because it it's easier to live it's just reality um and again you can't you can't help who you fall in love with those that's the other part you know there's

hm

hm

obviously he gave you um mental stimulation that made you fall in love that there's there's nothing that you can take away from that that's just fact so you can't help it it happens you know once you get to a certain point yes you have to make a decision you know it should get off the pot and and

hm

m

yeah

it goes it boils down to i just quit working at it i just quit making it happen i quit participating i just quit and any time in any relationship where you just quit it's not going to sustain a relationship like quit with anything you know it's it just is what it is and yeah

no you're done

it's yeah it's equal parts you have to continue to do a hundred percent or it's not going to function

hm hm and i just i just couldn't do it any more because my needs weren't met before that even started um so like the relationship wasn't doing as well as it needed to do in order for that to be okay and and the relationship really needs to be strong in order for that to work

right

hm

for sure without a doubt do you do you think and again this is kind of a personal question on the outside looking in do you think you did you fall out of love there's the first question and this is a second is a two partner did you either fall out of love and or did you just think maybe things weren't working for quite a while and you craved having that

yeah yeah

relationship of normal quote unquote relationship more than being did you crave that relationship because you were so unhappy and you thought maybe that was just the way to get out like there's because divorce is a very bizarre thing and there's reasons that we get out is you know most people fall out of love

i don't i don't believe we fell out of love i believe that love changes you know in the beginning it's more of this passionate sexual connection but as you grow as a couple that since your life partner that somebody that you share things with it something somebody you go home to that somebody that you could commiserate with if you're unhappy or be with i do believe that as people as people that were married he and i never lost that are our ability i think we could go

an amazing race right now and win it because we we are that good together we do communicate that well um so i don't think i don't think that we blew that up most people i would say definitely because jealousy will kill things faster than anything and if you don't think you're going to get jealous in a situation like this you're sadly mistaken you will you will trust me you will um but i do believe that

i was going through in my life where i needed to be the center of attention i really do not that kids don't come in between that not that jobs don't come in between that life does come in between that but when it's a relationship i wanted to be

right with him just with one person and that we cannot do it was just not something that he wanted to do and and i felt like i just i wanted that but i think i always wanted that i don't think that i i never sought this out that was not my thing i did it i don't know why i did it i don't know how i did it i know why i did it there you know you're you don't think that when you're younger you don't think that you're but you can't do so

hm

hm

sure

thing and anything that sounds fun it's like yeah sign me up let's try it but i didn't think of all the reprecustions and all the work it would take in all of the growth i needed to do in order for that to be happening so but yeah i just i i decided quite a while ago that i really needed to be just one person with one person and we just couldn't make that work he wasn't happy

sure

yeah

well and again both people being unhappy is never it's a recipe for disaster you know and again sometimes you you don't realize it mostly like in my case with my x you know you go with the flow for so long that you you don't you go past the yeah we've we've separated so far apart we just do what we're doing to do it because we have kids and we're doing this and you're doing that she's a good lady

hm yeah

hm

i wished her well she was at forty decided she didn't want what she was in and moved on she's happy she's married she's great my kid ended up being fine i think you know when you get to a point in a relationship whatever the kind you're in when you finally at the the you know end of it you you look back on it and go it was probably gone here

you know two years before and you're like or like you said like you know maybe you were never in love i mean at least that's how what i looked at i think you know i don't any more i know i don't think i was ever not the kind of love that i think i felt sense so i think there's something different

i wonder that i do wonder that to some degree

hm because if you really love somebody can you share them that was always my question you know so to me i really wonder i really wonder if we ever got to that place where we loved each other unconditionally because there were always conditions

no

m yeah maybe maybe we should end it on that that's you know some things are conditionary love probably won't work but being in love unconditionally will so um you know thank you for coming and spilling your beans on this one because i know sometimes you not that you hold back but you're definitely a little gun shy sometimes and i

yeah i get that

all the time all the time

a lot of the time um i'm not quite as gunchigill say whatever um look it's it's an important thing that you can maybe get a little free therapy through talking things out sometimes and look i'm glad that you who spoke with him and you could come on and and kind of just let things loose because the funny thing is as this came this subject came from my

i and my friend which was out of nowhere she just happened to put it in a text and i was like oh yeah that's you know he's like yeah do this so you know thank thank her as well because i think that's you know a lot a lot of the a lot of the people i mean it from the standpoint that a lot of people who are listening to the podcast are giving us ideas out of nowhere and and i think that they're blossoming me into things that you know people want to hear i mean

hm

yeah thanks i'm kidding

hm

you'd be surprised how many people have said things to me afterwards like oh yeah i didn't think of it this way or i didn't think of it that way you know and it's just two people who obviously for a few years have done uh relationships for long periods of time and is always kind of interesting so

m

you know i always get asked if if you go back and you have a chance to do it again would you do it again and i honestly got to say that i'm one of those people that would probably give it a shot just because i hadn't tried it you know what i mean so it wasn't it wasn't so horrible that that i don't want to do it again i did it um but if i had the chance to do it again what i would would i do it again and the answer is probably yeah because i'm just like

right

hm

i really want to get to the end of my life and if i'm sitting on my death bed say you know i got all these stories i could tell you all about them and and you know maybe that wasn't my brightest idea but it wouldn't be from lack of trying like it was i do things because at the end i want to say that i lived in and i believe even in this situation i've lived a life that not too many people could live and

all right

there's i'm okay with that i did what i did yeah

no i get you look that you know regret is regret but sometimes you have to do the things that that you think will make you happy and and whatever that is if you know if you end up if you end up going down a road because you think it was going to make you happy and it doesn't it doesn't mean that you can't continue to go forward and get back on the right track of whatever life is

hm

and

and you know what it wasn't that i was unhappy either like we talked about kind of the downfalls we didn't talk a lot about like the good parts of it but there was a lot of there was a lot of good there was a lot of fun we had you know i have stories that that when somebody gets me to open up and really tell the stories were laughing our asses off because we have experience things that most people haven't so i'm not telling people not to do it i'm just telling people know

hm

that your your chances of crashing and burning are high

yeah the repercussions of doing this kind of relationship are probably not high on the winning

yeah and if your parents are alive like really think about that because having to talk to them when i did was not the high light of my life and making them have secrets you know because i had the secret then they had to keep the secret it was probably really hard i know my mom didn't completely keep it and i know that when it came out the family it came out rather different than it was

no i get that as well

hm sure

harshly

and

yeah it wasn't easy to have to go to the next family reunion knowing that people knew stuff that i didn't want them to know so there are repercussions but not all of it was bad but when it was bad it was really bad

right no no i'm sure like look it's that's part of look that's part of the gamble of life and relationships you got to gamble sometimes you just do

yeah that's what i keep telling myself but i really should stop and put my money back in my purse and go home sometimes

you know what though it's hard when the dice are just sitting there wanting to be rolled and sometimes you got to roll them we only live once

yeah

i agree i agree i think that people should make a lot more mistakes than they do like that's how we learn that's how we grow that's how we love and that's just a part of life and i'm not going to apologize for it i may not want to do it again but apologizing you didn't hear that out of my mouth

yeah

and that's kind of the thing like you really don't know until you try it right but i mean but i mean that's in any kind of relationship you don't know unless you you know look some people like to stick their toes in the water first and some people like to jump in and see how cold it is you just got to you know it all matters who you are and what kind you do but at the end of the day if you fail it's okay

i didn't know anything

hm

yeah

keep moving there's there's there's more things out there for you

yeah

put it this way i didn't lose my friendship with my x i you know my my mom's gone but my dad's still very proud of me i didn't lose any of that um i was a little embarrassed quite a bit but outside of that you can live with it yeah

i hear you all right miss well that was a hour thanks for your hour

and i'm really glad i didn't even have to get anything super personal

now because i think it was more of just we were talking about the style of relationship without having you know i think it's more of people just need to understand that it's it's a different lifestyle and it's for some people and not for others and and if that's something that comes up in your life and you're not don't want to go down that road don't go down it and if you want to go down that road go down it it's i understand both sides of that i am

yeah

hm

is not a share i i want one woman and i want to you know throw everything i can at her and and give her that experience so all right darling well thank you very much for coming on any last words before we head out of here

i get that

think before you act

god you know that's that's for everybody hey make sure to check out those cool social media places like facebook and instagram and twitter here is on apples spotify google amazon i heart radio anywhere you can hear podcasts and just say you know this is opinion show so don't get it twisted keep coming back and listening we're gonna have more love sex all kinds of fun stuff team until next

yeah

i'll talk to you later you do

have a good one