In this episode of Clock Talk, hosts Jeremiah Kincannon and Tanya Voda sit down with leadership and DEIB expert Reggie Butler for a thought-provoking conversation about belonging, connection, and humanity at work.

The discussion explores:

• The role of curiosity and empathy in leadership
• How to foster a sense of belonging across teams and organizations
• The difference between scarcity and abundance mindsets
• The evolving importance of “power skills” (formerly “soft skills”) in the hybrid and AI-enabled workplace
• Practical strategies for leaders and employees to build inclusive, human-centered communities at work.

Reggie challenges listeners to lead with intention, expand their “go-to” networks, and “pay attention now” to the human connections that drive real performance and fulfillment.

Welcome to the Corporate Legal

Operations Consortium Podcast, where

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we dive deep into conversations with

technology and legal operations, thought

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leaders from across the ecosystem.

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This is Clock Talk.

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In today's episode, my co-host Tanya

Voda, and I sit down with Reggie Butler.

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An expert in leadership development and

a passionate advocate for diversity,

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equity, inclusion, and belonging.

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With nearly four decades of experience,

Reggie brings a powerful lens to what

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it means to truly connect at work from

the role of curiosity and empathy and

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leadership to the difference between

scarcity and abundance mindsets.

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This episode is packed with

insights that challenge, and

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invite us to lead with intention.

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Reggie's wisdom will leave you thinking

differently about what it means to belong.

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For anybody who's listening in,

we've got another Clock Talk podcast

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today, which I'm super excited

about for two different reasons.

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One, we've got Reggie on to talk

about some stuff that's very close to

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my heart because it has to deal with

people, and I think a lot of things stem

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from people, personal relationships.

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A lot of things can be solved if

you get it right in those arenas

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with yourself and with other people.

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And secondly, I've got Tanya

Voda on here with me who is just

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an amazing person all around.

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Tanya.

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You know, we've had a lot of just personal

conversations and things like that, so

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I'm super happy to have you on here.

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A lot of you who are listening

already know a little bit

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about me, Jeremiah Kincannon.

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Currently working with Kutas Consulting

Group in the legal operations space.

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But I'm gonna hand it over to

Tanya real quick to intro herself.

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And then Reggie, if you wouldn't mind

following up on that for those who

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are listening in and may have not seen

you around and filling in a little

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bit on who you are and all of that.

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So, Tanya, if you wanna start it off.

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I've been working in legal

tech for the past three years.

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I am with Jeremiah on the Clock, voice

and Brand Council, and I'm currently

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at Workday as a content leader working

with the EOR team, so still working

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with Legal Tech and it's just an

audience that I love, and I think it's

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an audience that gets really excited

about learning more about soft skills.

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So it's just the perfect episode.

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Happy to be here.

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I'm Reggie Butler.

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I've been in the.

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Leadership development evolved

teams, diversity, equity,

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inclusion, and belonging space.

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This is year 38 for me, and I

had one of my team members do a

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little bit of number crunching.

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It says, in your career, Reggie,

we wonder how many people

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do you think you've trained?

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And we came up with 1.5

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million.

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I started off as a school teacher.

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I'm a classically trained

pianist, so musician first.

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That transitioned over into I

was a professor at a university.

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I taught strength through

cultural diversity as a professor.

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I worked at a small niche boutique

firm that focused on leadership

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and diversity and inclusion.

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I had a lot of clients in that

space and actually cut my teeth on

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training through that particular

context, and then wound up getting

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recruited by PricewaterhouseCoopers.

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So sat in there and helped build out

their strategy around people issues,

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mostly diversity, equity, and inclusion.

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But that's where I got my first sort of

entree into the Office of General Counsel.

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Legal and compliance, and I spent a lot

of time while I was at PWC collaborating

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with them as we delivered these messages

and then have dealt with law firms as a

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consultant for them for almost 20 years.

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So I'm so used to the prototype of

people who have to use compliance and

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metrics and the legal profession backdrop

to make decisions that impact people.

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So I sit here in front

of you in that context.

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Today, I'm gonna say something

that sound really strange,

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but I'm not a people person.

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I like helping people help other people.

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I'm what's called a trained extrovert.

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I had to learn how to be an

extrovert to do my job, but

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that's an outward perception.

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I'm an introverted heart.

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I prefer to, to reflect and, you

know, spend time with myself.

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So I need to recharge a lot.

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But my life mission, my passion

is to help other people.

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Help other people.

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That's a little bit about who I'm,

I love how you spoke about being

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an introvert, but focused on other

people and, and teaching them.

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'cause I'm the same way.

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I had to learn how to be extroverted

and my dad naturally extroverted.

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So that was helpful in me learning that.

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But I was very much, even when I

would skateboard things like I'd

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be in the garage for hours on end,

trying to practice something to get

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it down, spending time by myself

before I would go out and do anything.

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And I can relate to that a ton.

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And I think a lot of people can.

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I think that kind of helps a lot

in kind of guiding into kind of the

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first question that Tanya and I had

thought about around belonging and

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how important that can be, whether

you're an extrovert or an introvert.

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I think in that space, the first

question that we kind of had we'd like

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to dive into was why is, you know,

in your opinion, a sense of belonging

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important in our professional lives?

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I'll take it from a life backdrop,

meaning we are social creatures first.

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We survive and thrive, you know, a

spectrum of survival and thriving based

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on our connection with other people.

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So we are literally wired to be connected

to each other, except somewhere along

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the way the wiring to be in community

was disrupted by either societal

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norms or pandemics, uh, disasters.

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So people get separated because

of external pressures that pull

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people apart, but our natural

wiring is to belong to a community.

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I spend time digging into like

an adjacent category, which would

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be for me, like longevity study.

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It's like, why do some people

live longer than other people?

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And I'm like, uh, it, it's not always

directly related to health and genes.

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What researchers has told us is that.

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If you cut across our globe and you look

at the people that live the longest,

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the number one thing they all have

in common is they have a community.

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They're connected to a group of people.

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And so part of that learning suggests

that when I'm connected, when I feel

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like I'm a part of something, it's

psychosocial, but when I feel like I'm

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part of something, I don't wanna leave.

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If I am in isolation or am alone,

which cut across some cultures and

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just think about this, the older we

get, the more we're isolated and the

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less we have, and I'm, I'm using the

term visitation, which means strong

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community to eventually we just sort of

deteriorate because of the isolation.

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If you look at other continents

though, people who are older, the

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more they age, the more they're

surrounded by people systems.

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Community drivers, which

gives them a sense of purpose.

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So there's a correlation to me that

suggests belonging is important

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for our day to day survival.

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Attach that to work.

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And you look at the, an organization

someone may be in, if they feel like they

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belong, you have higher retention rates.

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If they feel like they belong, they're

more innovative, they take more risk

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because it is in service of the community.

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And that's what makes for strong cultures.

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So I believe belonging from the

genesis of it, with us being

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social creatures first is why

belonging matters in workplaces Now.

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I'd love to dig into that because

I think, I think we're around the

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same age 20 years of work, and I've

worked at a lot of different cultures.

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I've worked at places that have had great

culture that invest a lot in culture, but

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I haven't necessarily always felt like

I've belonged in all of those places.

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And I think that having investing

in culture and investing in building

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a workplace that fosters a sense of

belonging might be two different things.

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And I'm curious about

your thoughts on that.

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There's all sort of adjacent ways to think

of this, but I look at how people frame

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what is the point of the culture itself.

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So I have some of the clients I work

with and I go in and I do culture forming

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work, sort of sit around the table.

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I talk to leadership and I

go, so what is this culture?

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Is it a culture of innovation?

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Is it a culture of learning?

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Is it a culture of, and not just sort

of lead them down a path, but you'd be

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surprised how many people don't put.

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This is a culture of inclusion.

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I'm saying that from the context of not of

what the world is saying about diversity,

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equity, inclusion, and belonging.

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Leaders who say, I have a culture and

I want everybody to feel like they can

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be themselves here, backslash included.

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I want everybody to have a cult

be in our culture where they are

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seen, heard, and valued Inclusion.

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You just put those two.

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Variables in place.

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Those cultures where those

leaders are building that culture,

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outperform the cultures who

say, we have a growth culture.

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We're in high growth mode,

we are transactional.

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We want people to get their jobs done.

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We wanna support them

to get their jobs done.

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Again, I can go down a bunch of

other variables, but the difference

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between the two is that one culture

is focused on the humanity of it all.

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The other culture is focused on

the business, the transaction of,

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you know, KPIs and OKRs because

they're in a growth modality.

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So both those mindsets, one

reduces the human connection.

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Totally.

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And the other supports

the human connection.

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Both are still gonna reach business

objectives, but how they do it

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becomes a cultural touchstone.

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It becomes normalized.

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I think that's so important.

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Because the way that I've grown up

and the people that I've learned

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from along the way, especially, are

you familiar with Keith Ferrazzi?

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I don't think so.

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So he's a family friend and he

used to be CMO of Deloitte back

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in the nineties, and he is written

some books like Never Eat Alone.

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Who's Got Your Back?

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Things like that over the years,

and it's so focused on people,

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and so I've grown up around that.

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I've been involved in that sort of stuff.

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So it comes a little bit more

naturally for me, but I still

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have to make sure that it happens.

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Maybe for those leaders who

are stuck in that mindset of.

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The productivity and we have to hit these

goals and like all of that sort of stuff.

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What do you think it takes to kind

of shift that perspective on more

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of the humanity side of things,

knowing that it's going to impact

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the other stuff in the long run?

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That is interesting.

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And even, you know, Tanya, as I listened

to you talk a little bit earlier,

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I believe that the way you think.

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Does have a correlation to how you

behave and how you behave is perceived

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by other people, and I'm gonna

use people as an entire workforce.

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One of the things I think leaders

have to do is they have to figure out

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what is the message they are sending

about the importance of humanity that

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has oxygen inside our organization.

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I use a frame to sort of position this so.

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Every leader who sits in their role

has to make decisions to do what's best

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or do what's right for their company.

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They're supposed to, they're leaders.

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They have a company, by the way,

no shade to those cultures that

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are focused on big business goals.

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You're supposed to, you're the leader.

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You're supposed to focus

on your business goals.

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It's those that I'm trying to get to

enter into a, a deeper dialogue about,

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it's not business without your people.

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And I think as you said earlier,

you get those business results

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when you have that connection.

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So you essentially are focusing on your

business when you're focusing on building

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that sense of humanity and inclusion.

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I think it's interesting, and I like

that you keep talking about inclusion

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and humanity in the same sentence.

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So I'm hearing impaired and I often

hear about inclusion talked about

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in terms of including people with

disabilities, including people who you

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know are coming from other cultures and

making sure they feel like they belong.

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But there's still that sense of

otherness, like, we wanna make

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you feel like you're part of us,

but you're still sort of an other.

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But when you think about it in

this bigger scope of like, we

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want everyone to feel like they're

part of this human experience.

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I like that approach.

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I think that changes the conversation.

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As humans, we all have a

bias toward a similarity.

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So people who are like us, so if I am

part of an the impaired community and

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so we can sort of put that in bracket

for right now, then I'm gonna do a

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lot for that particular community.

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Because I am familiar with it.

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I'm comfortable with it.

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I am one of them, meaning I belong.

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And what we're asking people to sort

of pay attention to, if you're truly

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gonna be an inclusive leader, inclusive

colleague, inclusive teammate, or better

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human, you are supposed to lean in

toward all the dimensions of humanity,

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not just the ones that represent you.

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I'm not gonna lie.

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It is hard because Jeremiah, back

to your point, it's our wiring.

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Like you saw your father

do certain things.

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We all saw people around us do certain

things, and at some point we have to go.

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The things that I have been conditioned

with have been imprinted inside of me

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about how to interact with other people.

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I should challenge them.

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What's moving past out of survival

mode, right, because it's, there's

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survival mode that makes you like,

I'm gonna focus on this, this my

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orbit, because that's how I'm gonna

survive with whatever it is, this

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disability, these obstacles, whatever.

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We all have something.

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But yeah, to evolve to that next level.

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I did some coaching in there,

was talking to a person the other

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day and they inherited a team.

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This is through a, a

merger, an acquisition.

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So they inherited a team.

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And they said, one of the things I'm

really good at are people connections.

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And he says, but now I'm nervous.

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I said, nervous.

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Why?

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He says, because I'm good at team

connections because my team has, up

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until this point in my career, been small

enough for me to manage having these

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very what feel like intimate one-on-ones

because they were small enough.

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Now small is relative, small.

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Could be 10 depending on who you are.

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Where you are small, could be 50.

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Small enough to manage

in that person's context.

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He said, I just inherited a team.

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I have no clue how I'm gonna make

a connection with them at scale.

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He says, so my new ask

and Reggie helped me out.

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How do I make connections with people

at scale when some of them aren't even

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geographically located near me and I

couldn't get to them if I tried yet?

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I know.

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The hybrid workforce is normal.

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Geo-located teams, you know,

geographically dispersed teams

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are the new way that we work.

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And I have never had to think

about the power of the human

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connection with teams like this.

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I've had this thought, and you can

say, Jeremiah, that's horribly wrong.

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Feel free, or you can add to it, whatever.

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But I have this thought around business

in general and the combination between

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productivity and the humanity piece.

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A lot of it comes down

to curiosity and empathy.

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It's empathy for the other person,

but also the curiosity to engage

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and find out where people are at, as

well as obviously the curiosity into

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how to get the business to grow and

meet KPIs and OKRs and all of that.

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But the curiosity of, I'm not

gonna come into this conversation.

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Assuming based on my background, instead,

I'm gonna enter this conversation or this

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meeting or whatever with a curiosity to

learn so that I know how to make things

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work for the business and for the people.

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But I'd love your thoughts.

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There's a session I've built a couple of

years ago, it's called Evolved Leadership,

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and what we talk about in the framing

that you're talking about right now

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is that my ability to remain curious.

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Specifically during challenging times

is what makes me a better leader.

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Our typical stance when a challenging time

comes up is to pull away from the humanity

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of it all and get into deep analytical

problem solving mode, because that's

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the wiring of survival at that moment.

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And what I talk about it in my session

is the curious leader goes further.

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The curious leader is more respected.

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The curious leader has a higher level

of commitment, and even if you look at

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their organization retention, because

if I'm around a person who is curious

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about how we're gonna solve something,

but they're curious about how we're gonna

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solve it together, and they see me as an

important variable in the solution itself,

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because I am you as much as you or me.

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Then I'm gonna stay there.

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I'm gonna work there.

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I tend to push people toward, there's

nothing wrong with being curious, but

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there's some very, very deep research

that suggests a couple of things.

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When we are curious, meaning we are

interested, we actually care more.

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When we are not interested, we care less.

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Notice I didn't say we don't care at all.

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But when you're interested, it leads to

being curious because you're interested.

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Think about all the things that you're

interested in, you're curious about.

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Every time you're interested in

curious, you follow through because

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you want to get to an answer.

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What is the thing you were interested

and curious about was the human.

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You would follow through.

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You'd be more empathetic,

you'd be more compassionate.

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'cause to me, empathy and compassion,

even though they're in the emotional

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intelligent framework, empathy means I

understand how you feel and I'm with you.

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That doesn't mean I'm gonna do anything a

compassionate leader does something for,

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because they care at a different level.

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I feel like fear is sort

of the kryptonite to that.

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As you know, I don't wanna keep

throwing things on the table.

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I'm mirroring impaired, I'm

anxious, but I have anxiety as well.

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And for me, one of the things I've noticed

is that when I get into that anxious,

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fearful space, it's harder to be curious.

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It's harder to be empathetic, and I think

that's something I know I've had to work

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on so that I can be a more empathetic.

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Coworker leader.

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You know, I think what that sort of leads

to, so I'll give you this way to think,

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and Tanya, your anxiety has a source

and everybody's anxiety has a source.

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What I suggest to people is that no

matter what your source of anxiety

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is and how it shows up, what is

the mindset you're gonna live in?

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'cause fear should not be

a driver toward anything.

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Fear is a limiting mindset.

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But there is, um, I know you all know

about the work of, you know, Carol Dweck

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and growth mindset and all that kind

of stuff, but there are two mindsets

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that exist that actually can either

help or hurt the human connection.

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And one of them is scarcity mindset

versus an abundance mindset.

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Because when I have a scarcity

mindset, I have this fear that there's

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never gonna be enough resources

available to achieve my goal.

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When I have that scarcity mindset and I'm

anxious, what it drives is I don't show up

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as much in terms of being collaborative.

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I withhold information unintentionally.

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'cause I'm trying to hold on.

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'cause I don't think

I'm gonna have enough.

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I don't wanna give it away by accident.

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Not only do I not share information,

I will not show up at meetings

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where there's supposed to be

free thinking and innovative

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problem solving and collaboration.

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I just don't because I

have a scarcity mindset.

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When you have an abundance mindset, on

the other hand, wow, because abundance

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mindset suggests this, a person with an

abundance mindset sees possibilities.

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Even when resources are limited.

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They go, of course I have enough.

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I just have to use what

I have differently.

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And they sit there and think of

any, uh, companies going through

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downsizing or rightsizing.

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They go through it.

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There are people who are left behind.

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Okay?

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So at that moment.

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People with a scarcity mindset.

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I don't know how long I'm gonna be here.

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I don't know what's gonna happen next.

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I'm sure I'm next on the list.

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How they show up at work looks

really different than the person

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with the abundance mindset.

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I'm here.

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We have to work differently now to reach

some of those goals that were put out

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in front of us prior to this moment.

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Very different people.

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The fear, which is an output of anxiety

and just a bunch of other things,

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it's how you frame it in order to

have yourself move forward first,

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and then after you're moving forward.

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Everything that is progress

driven from how you show up

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actually impacts those around you.

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So I'd much rather spend my

day around somebody that has an

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abundance mindset than sit in a room.

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Yeah.

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With five or six people that

have a scarcity mindset, because

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that's some toxic dialogue.

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I've heard it said, and this is something

that I've incorporated in my own life,

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like it's not about your resources, it's

about your ability to be resourceful.

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Yeah.

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And a lot of times when you get

into that scarcity mindset and you

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happen to be one of those people

who is being affected by downsizing,

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right sizing, anything like that.

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It almost becomes a self-fulfilling

prophecy because you're in the

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scarcity mindset of, well, I don't

know how much longer I'm gonna be here.

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Then it starts affecting your

work, your attitude, and it just

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all kind of like, you know, goes

down from there versus shifting

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your mindset into that other realm.

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I think that's so important.

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When I was listening to some of your clips

before our interview, one of the things

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that I really admired about you was that

you weren't just getting on there and

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saying, you know, leaders, organizations,

this is what you need to do.

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You were also saying.

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People, coworkers, like teammates,

this is what you need to do.

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And I love that you just reiterated

that in that conversation about the

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scarcity versus the abundance mindset.

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Because when you think about how much we

impact the people we work with, it's not

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always just about waiting for that leader

to come in with that perfect statement

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that's gonna set everything to right.

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It's about bringing it and getting

that energy into the room from

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whatever angle you're coming into it.

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If you look at the lens through humanity

and we're all just flawed humans working

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on getting better, I think sometimes

leaders, they just get a bad rap 'cause

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they make some mistakes and they're,

they're trying to do the best they can.

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Seriously, you're gonna hold that

leader accountable for that full

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pod they made in that messaging

or that calms that went out.

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It's like they're trying their best.

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They're trying their best now.

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I do realize that some things don't

land, so the leader has to take the

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responsibility and accountability

for the pivot, for the recovery.

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But sometimes we judge

people way too quickly.

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We're all flawed.

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All of us real people aren't perfect

and perfect people aren't real.

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That's absolutely true.

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I think about that all the time.

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I'm like, if I wanted to see a

perfect person, I'm definitely

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not looking in the mirror.

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Yeah.

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One of the questions I wanted

to ask before I forget.

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So we're using AI more and more at

work in our personal lives, and I

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think that's one of the ways it's so

easy to kind of slip into solo mode

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and you forget to be intentional

about connection and inclusion.

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And I wonder if you had any thoughts

about that, or even just some

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suggestions for all of us that are

getting pulled more and more into that.

438

So again, so scarcity or abundance

mindset in relation to ai.

439

So there are some people who have adopted

about ai, a scarcity mindset 'cause they

440

believe them as a human, meaning the

human resource is going to be taken away.

441

I've gotta say this, there's

a myth embedded in there.

442

If you look just at historical context,

people said the same thing when we,

443

you know, we, the internet happened.

444

There are more jobs, so I am not

as worried about people losing jobs

445

or losing themselves because of ai.

446

I am worried that people will be in a

scarcity mindset so long that they don't

447

engage with AI in a productive way and

lose out on the opportunities to be a part

448

of how we're going to be in the future.

449

I'm not gonna go in the deep AI context

that a lot of people are talking about in

450

the privacy and all that kind of stuff.

451

That's not what I mean.

452

I mean in relation to teams and how

we, uh, collaborate with one another.

453

Removing yourself from team collaboration

because you found a way to do something

454

faster, quicker, smarter, more efficient.

455

It was supposed to allow you to have more

time for human collaboration to happen.

456

That was the whole point.

457

Not so that you could stay by yourself

and just do more efficient things.

458

It's like, no, I'm trying to

give you more think time, more

459

human time, more collaboration

time, more problem solving time.

460

I want you to communicate more.

461

Instead of having to come to a

meeting, not having fully thought

462

through a recommendation, you can

pre-think all that and actually

463

spend a good portion of your meeting.

464

Having a really good dialogue with

another human about what we both

465

found and how we both can share that.

466

So the siloed pieces, I'll say

this, it may sound a little harsh

467

as some of you're listening.

468

Siloed behavior is a choice,

and I choose collaboration.

469

And remember, I'm the one who

started this by saying that I'm an

470

introvert, but I still choose humanity.

471

No matter who it is that I'm collaborating

with and how we do it may look

472

different for me and people on just

a spectrum of preferences and styles,

473

but I still choose collaboration.

474

I choose the human connection.

475

So those of us that are pulling

away, I offer you a challenge.

476

Pull away for what?

477

I think people get stuck.

478

I think one of the things I've done

at my workplace that I've admired

479

is getting people together to talk

about what are you excited about

480

that you're doing with AI right now?

481

And then when people get into sharing

like what they're excited about,

482

that connection starts back up again.

483

And then when they do do something

that's, oh, I did this wonderful thing

484

and it made it so much faster for me

to do my job, then they bring that

485

excitement back like, oh, I wanna come

and share with the team how I did this.

486

I think that's a great way to kind of get

people unstuck from those silos because I

487

think it's natural to kind of hyper focus,

but we do need to get bumped out of that.

488

I'll put one more tip out there

and it's, there's a little bit.

489

I'm gonna say we're sort of stuck on

pause right now because we're just

490

in nascent stages of AI and I think

everybody so at the speed, if you just

491

watch when, as an example, chat, GPT

first came out to where it is now.

492

My goodness.

493

If you really paid attention and you think

about Claude and you think about Gemini,

494

that's out now and in vo you think all

this stuff that's out there as little

495

as a year ago, it didn't exist year.

496

I'm like, what internet?

497

It was 10 years before full adoption

took place, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

498

So what I am going to try to suggest that

people start to pay attention to about

499

AI is while it's still in the nascent

phase, while we're still trying to work

500

through it, then let's work through it.

501

And Jeremiah, I'm gonna go back

to your curiosity sort of framing.

502

Let's be curious about it and not pause.

503

I want us to get into the mindset of

one of the things that has become more

504

difficult for us, this has a little bit

to do with the pandemic, but what was

505

happening pre pandemic too, is feeling

connected at work, took a hit, so pandemic

506

happened, everybody got pulled away,

and then everybody got brought back.

507

In some context, whether in person or not.

508

But for three years we weren't connected

and we built a new muscle on how to.

509

Be connected.

510

So now we're all back, we're all

working together and we haven't

511

trained for this next version.

512

People say soft skills, you know the

people skills, they're soft skills.

513

I had a CEO tell me no, the soft skills

are the hard skills, and I have a

514

colleague who, and they just said this

recently, they're with a different

515

company, but we're going back and forth

and playing with the language, taking soft

516

skills because it, it seems, I'm gonna

say diminutive in some people's context.

517

And change it.

518

Let's change the language and the framing.

519

Soft skills are power skills and

think about those leaders who do

520

amazing things and those team members

who like change the dynamics of,

521

of the team and motivation goes up.

522

There's power in that.

523

So I'm offering everybody,

it's like, think about it.

524

Lean into the power skills of human

connection and you will go lot further.

525

And I mean, even personally.

526

A hundred percent.

527

I love that, and I love

that you brought that up.

528

I know I had another podcast conversation

with someone at the Clock Global

529

Institute who said the same thing.

530

Soft skills are the hard skills.

531

So there's this theme kind of woven

through everything and the pandemic,

532

that was a huge one where it's like you

can't anticipate it, it just happens,

533

and then you're in a new world and

now you have to navigate those things.

534

I love.

535

How the conversation has been

around, not just leadership,

536

but like community as a whole.

537

So just kind of thinking about community

teammates, whether you're a leader

538

wherever you are inside of an organization

or just personally, how can we, and

539

maybe you have like one to three things

that you could kind of leave us with.

540

How can we foster.

541

That sort of belonging community, things

of that nature in our own daily spaces.

542

What are maybe some recommendations?

543

I use a, as an acronym called pan PAN, and

it's called Pay Attention Now because what

544

we tend to do is we pay attention to late

to when the human side of the equation.

545

Is disrupted or fractured, then

we pay attention and I'm saying,

546

why don't we pay attention now?

547

So Jeremiah, I want you to think about it.

548

Do you have go-to people at work?

549

A hundred percent.

550

Describe them to me.

551

What are they like?

552

I would say there's a lot

of encouragement, grace.

553

And collaboration that exists

with each of the individuals

554

that I go to on a regular basis.

555

Very collaborative environment,

and this includes the person that I

556

report to the most, who is my boss and

also the owner of the organization.

557

It's that ability to come

together, try something out.

558

If it doesn't work, it's not

a failure, it's just a pivot.

559

Here's what it was.

560

It wasn't quite.

561

What we thought it would

be at the end of the day.

562

So what do we do about it now?

563

So I would say all of those

individuals probably encompass

564

those type of components.

565

That's your go-to formula.

566

The beginning of the formula is,

I need to go talk to somebody.

567

The end of the formula is it

winds up being those people.

568

Okay.

569

Tanya, who is it for you?

570

Who are your go-to people?

571

You know, it depends on what I need.

572

If I need someone that's just a

great big picture thinker, I'm gonna

573

go to the head of our department.

574

If I need someone who I can have a good

back and forth brainstorm session with

575

and kind of laugh with, it's gonna be,

you know, Steve over in product marketing.

576

So that's my first question.

577

What do I need first?

578

So in both your answers, I want

you to look at the formula.

579

It is coming through the lens of

self-interest, like you need something

580

and therefore I go to these people.

581

That's not a bad choice.

582

Again, that's human behavior.

583

That's what we do.

584

What I am suggesting when I

say pay attention now, who are

585

the people you don't go to?

586

Because those very people could be.

587

Resourceful, helpful, collaborative.

588

It's just that you've picked

a grouping and you just keep

589

feeding off of that grouping.

590

And so if we're gonna talk

about being inclusive and paying

591

attention to the human condition,

we have to expand our go-to group.

592

By expanding on purpose, meaning it's the

intentionality, oh, you just called me

593

out, but like in the best possible way.

594

I love that.

595

That's gonna be my mission

this week, to see how I can be

596

more intentional about that.

597

Yeah.

598

I'll tell you this, I did that same

thing with somebody and the person

599

you know, love them, they went, wow.

600

I just realized that there are people

that I have been bypassing on my team and

601

I'm supposed to be developing others and.

602

I only tend to develop

those in my go-to network.

603

I don't develop those who are not.

604

And he goes, and this huge initiative,

like Who are you developing?

605

Who are you helping?

606

It's going on in my entire company.

607

And I just realized I've

only been picking those.

608

I've been going to, he says,

and I'm not real sure why.

609

I think maybe 'cause it's easier

'cause I already know them and I

610

know where they need to be developed.

611

But that's not fair to those

who still need to be developed.

612

Who've been waiting on me and I

also, all the introverts, right,

613

who have brilliant ideas, but just

are a little quieter in the room.

614

Yeah.

615

And I'll say this, you realize when we

sort of tie this thread all the way back

616

to belonging, if you are not coming to

me and I don't feel like I'm in your

617

go-to network, even on the fringes, I

don't feel like I belong around you.

618

And based on who you are, it

may mean I don't feel like I

619

belong in this organization.

620

'cause you don't come to me for

anything unless you need something.

621

It's one of the formulas of belonging.

622

I have to feel like I'm

connected in some way.

623

So pan is one of my things.

624

And then the other thing is there's

the power of check-ins that I'm

625

gonna ask everybody to start to do.

626

We don't check in nearly enough on people.

627

And if you could make that a ritual or

a tradition that you're doing just at

628

the team level, like checking on people

that have nothing to do with work.

629

If they don't have anything to tell

you, great, that's their choice.

630

But the fact that you made a conscious

effort to go, I'm just checking in.

631

Do you need anything?

632

And as soon as they start telling you

about the project, you just look at 'em

633

and go, that's not what I'm talking about.

634

I'm just checking in on you.

635

You'd be surprised when I look at.

636

Some of the research out there that talks

about people don't feel like they've

637

are seen, heard of, valued at work.

638

And you know, you look at these

engagement surveys and you look at

639

all the things, there's just, I think

was one of 'em is 65% of workers say

640

they feel less connected to their

coworkers than before The pandemic.

641

Really?

642

65%.

643

What that means, somebody

has stopped checking in.

644

Because if you're checking in on

me, even if I don't have anything

645

for you, at least I know you care.

646

'cause you took the time to check in.

647

So Pans one, the power of

check-ins is the other one.

648

Just based on how the

conversation has gone.

649

I would guess you would say this, but

I'll ask, would you also say that applies

650

to employees reaching out to leadership

as well and checking in on them?

651

Absolutely don't get me on my

tear about psychological safety.

652

Yeah, because if you have psych

safety, you have no trouble

653

checking in on your leader.

654

And I know, Hey, I know some teams

where this symbiotic relationship is.

655

Fan, fantastic leader with,

again, coaching somebody.

656

And she said, my team checked in on me.

657

They knew I was frustrated

and I wasn't being myself.

658

And one of my team members pinged me,

said, can I talk to you for a second?

659

And pulled him to the side

and said, are you okay?

660

Do you need anything?

661

She said, I did my

normal thing as a leader.

662

No, no, no.

663

I'm okay.

664

And then the person just, this is a team

member, just looked at her and went, stop.

665

We can all tell, just let us

know if you need something.

666

'cause we're here for you.

667

We got your back.

668

He goes, do you know what

that's like for me as a leader?

669

They have a team member

that reports to me.

670

Check on me as the human

first, not the leader first.

671

Yeah.

672

Wow.

673

Yeah.

674

Wow.

675

Thank you Reggie, so

much for coming on here.

676

So much great information.

677

I've loved it.

678

Tanya, thank you for

joining in the conversation.

679

Seriously, you add so much to

this, like it's been amazing.

680

Yeah, my pleasure.

681

It great to be here.

682

I feel like I learned so much.

683

Normally I'd be scribbling on

post-it notes, so I'm gonna try

684

to do that as soon as we hang up.

685

All your great quotable

lines that you had.

686

Amazing.

687

So I invite people to listen

'cause I have a podcast series

688

that's called Care More Podcast.

689

And I invite people wherever you get

your podcasts from, get it there.

690

And I talk about things

like this all the time.

691

So for everybody who's listening,

just remember you are human first.

692

Thanks so much.

693

I appreciate it, Reggie.

694

And that about wraps up this episode.

695

Thank you to Reggie for reminding

us that belonging isn't a

696

box to check, it's a culture.

697

We create one conversation at a time.

698

Catch this and other episodes of Clock

Talk wherever you listen to podcasts.

699

Thanks for listening.

700

Until next time.