America was born in paradox—and those contradictions are once again shaping the nation’s strategic future.

In this opening episode of The Civic Brief’s 2026 season, Dr. Isaiah “Ike” Wilson III is joined by Lieutenant General (Ret.) H.R. McMaster for a wide-ranging, candid conversation on American grand strategy at a moment of compounding global and domestic pressure. Together, they examine how founding tensions—liberty versus exclusion, decentralized governance versus centralized power, democratic ideals versus strategic necessity—continue to define U.S. leadership in the world.

Drawing on history, military strategy, and civic theory, McMaster and Wilson explore the rise of an authoritarian “axis of aggressors,” the dangers of political polarization as a national security vulnerability, and why strategic honesty and civic renewal are essential to sustaining American power. Rather than romanticizing the founding era, this episode calls for a clear-eyed reckoning with America’s contradictions as a prerequisite for renewal in its 250th year.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✅ Why America’s founding paradoxes still drive modern grand strategy. How unresolved tensions from 1776 continue to influence governance, power projection, and legitimacy.

✅ How domestic polarization becomes a national security vulnerability. Why adversaries exploit U.S. civic division through disinformation and cognitive warfare.

✅ What strategic honesty looks like in an era of global competition. Why myths about primacy, unity, and inevitability undermine effective strategy.

✅ How civic renewal connects directly to American power abroad. Why trust, agency, and institutional legitimacy matter as much as military strength.

Join the Travelers Community and explore resources at Wilson WiSE Consulting, as well as at Dr. Wilson’s companion Substack Newsletter, “Compound Security, Unlocked,” where you can share insights, ask questions, and help shape the future—one brief at a time.

1. Wilson WiSE Consulting Website: https://wilsonwise.com/
2. Substack: https://compoundsecurityunlocked.substack.com/

Key Timestamps:

00:00 Welcome to The Civic Brief: Leadership, civility, and the “politics of addition” as a strategic necessity

02:40 America’s founding paradoxes: liberty, exclusion, and centralized power

08:54 Compounding global threats and the return of great-power competition

11:24 Gen. McMaster on the “axis of aggressors” (China, Russia, Iran, North Korea)

18:26 American strength vs. fragility: domestic polarization as strategic weakness

29:07 Disinformation, cognitive warfare, and exploiting U.S. social divisions

35:16 History wars, critical theory, and the danger of ideological extremes

42:20 Teaching American history without nostalgia or denial

49:03 Civility, agency, and restoring trust in democratic institutions

55:25 Election legitimacy, civic confidence, and securing democracy going forward

Key Takeaways:

💎 Paradox is not a flaw—it’s the operating condition of American strategy. The United States has always balanced competing ideals, and avoiding those tensions weakens rather than strengthens the republic.

💎 Perceived weakness invites aggression. Strategic incoherence, polarization, and loss of civic trust embolden authoritarian rivals more than any single policy failure.

💎 History must be confronted, not weaponized. Replacing one ideological orthodoxy with another—whether nostalgic or hyper-critical—undermines democratic agency.

💎 Civility is a strategic asset. Rebuilding trust, dialogue, and shared civic identity is essential to sustaining U.S. leadership in a contested world

Resources & Mentions:

1. Today’s Battlegrounds Podcast: https://www.hoover.org/publications/todays-battlegrounds
2. History We Don’t Know - H.R. McMaster’s Substack: https://hrmcmaster.substack.com/
3. Wilson WiSE Consulting Website: https://wilsonwise.com/
4. Connect with Dr. Wilson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-ike-wilson/
5. Think Beyond War: https://thinkbeyondwar.com/
6. Subscribe to the Substack Community to join the discussion, share your insights, and help defend the guardrails of democracy: https://compoundsecurityunlocked.substack.com/
7. Three (3) “Key Essays” Illustrative of this Episode …
8. “The Paradox of Power: Compound Security and the Shifting Nature of Global Competition.” Isaiah Wilson III (Mar 17, 2025), accessible [online] at: https://open.substack.com/pub/compoundsecurityunlocked/p/the-paradox-of-power?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
9. 🦅 “The Tragedy of a SuperForce: America’s Rise, Its Hegemonic Fall, and the Disorder of What Comes Next.” Isaiah Wilson III (Apr 05, 2025), accessible [online] at: https://open.substack.com/pub/compoundsecurityunlocked/p/the-tragedy-of-a-superforce?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
10. “Minneapolis Is Now the Model: Illiberal Pacification or 'Principled Resistance' in the American Republic’s Endgame.” Isaiah Wilson III (Jan 24, 2026), accessible [online] at: https://open.substack.com/pub/compoundsecurityunlocked/p/minneapolis-is-the-model?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web

Lieutenant General (Ret.) H.R. McMaster is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and a former U.S. National Security Advisor. A distinguished military leader, historian, and bestselling author, McMaster brings decades of experience in strategy, leadership, and civil-military relations to today’s most urgent national security debates.

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Join Black Horizon’s flagship exercise, Baltic Storm: Geopolitical Simulation on February 25th and 26th, featuring LTG (Ret.) Milford H. Beagle Jr. who examines escalation, deterrence, and alliance dynamics in today’s complex global landscape.

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Mentioned in this episode:

Black Horizon, LLC. Preparing Leaders for the Unpredictable

Leadership isn’t tested in theory—it’s tested in crisis. Founded by former U.S. intelligence officer Jeremy Boss, Black Horizon, LLC is a leadership and strategic-simulation company that prepares leaders for real-world uncertainty through immersive geopolitical simulations that put leaders inside high-pressure decision environments. Join Black Horizon’s flagship exercise, Baltic Storm: Geopolitical Simulation on February 25th and 26th, featuring LTG (Ret.) Milford H. Beagle Jr. who examines escalation, deterrence, and alliance dynamics in today’s complex global landscape. Train your judgment. Strengthen your strategy. To learn more or secure your seat, visit https://www.blkhrzn.net/ Spots are limited, and registration is filling quickly. Secure your seat today: https://buy.stripe.com/3cIaEX7YE8Ad7iad9BaZi00

[00:00:18] Yeah. And, and well, you know, but you know what, I, I'm starting to lose faith in the political class to do that, man. They're not gonna do it. So, so we can't wait for the political class to do that. Right.

[00:00:44] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: fellow travelers. Welcome back to the Civic Brief. I'm Ike Wilson. Now this month we open our, not only our 2026 series, but this episode, this episode one, um, is gonna find us returning really framing the, the whole [00:01:00] year, the whole programmatic year of season two of the civic brief. So, you know, wanna, wanna thank our guests and I'll introduce him here properly here in a second.

[00:01:33] We're gonna return to the beginning. Uh, the beginning of, uh, America's founding and framing, uh, core principles and specifically what I, what I call paradoxes. Uh, we're not, we're not doing the revisit to romanticize those paradoxes, but in fact, to reckon with them, they're cyclical. They shaped and framed our original cause for, um, revolution and, um, the creation of our nation state, uh, back in 1776.[00:02:00]

[00:02:22] It's not only a right but a duty and a hard earned duty to grapple over time with the paradoxes that lie core to our American self. And that's where we're gonna begin that conversation today. Um, deliberately, America again was born in paradox. A republic committed to liberty that tolerated exclusion.

[00:03:03] Those founding contradictions are, are no longer abstractions. Again. They are, once again, they have returned and become the operational pressures undergirding how America and Americans go forward together. Or, or somewhat disunited at different times and context. These paradoxes, they shape how we lead, how we deter, how we govern, and how we imagine our future.

[00:03:51] General McMaster, welcome to the Civic Brief. It's truly an honor to have you with us today. Hey, Ike. It's great to be with you. Awesome. Okay, [00:04:00] uh, general Before we were Preem Laing before we went, uh, live here, and I explained, you know, my travelers, my, my, my followers know me well, and you know me very well, and you know that I am both gifted and cursed.

[00:04:30] I apologize upfront. You know, some of this may embarrass you, but you know, there's a reason why I wanted to, to get you on the, on this opening because you're really your own, your own background, your professional life, uh, really is an exemplar of, um, a lot of those paradoxes, how America has led. Um, uh, through those paradoxes in good ways and, and sometimes challenging in bad ways and with some ugliness along the way.

[00:05:13] This is, you know, let me, let me kind of set the stage here for our conversation. Now general, you're, you're one of those rare American figures whose professional lifespans, battlefield, courage, intellectual rigor and service at the very center of power and force, and crucially, whose career is unfolded at inflection points in American history.

[00:05:58] And do a little study [00:06:00] on the battle of 73 Eastons. There are some, there's a lot of, uh, great stuff out there, some great, uh, YouTube, uh, podcast and oral that capture an oral history of this seminal battle. And I'll explain that very briefly here now. As a young calvary officer, sir, you led what remains one of the most studied armored tank engagements in modern warfare, destroying a numerically superior Republican guard force through discipline, initiative, clarity of purpose and mission command under fire.

[00:06:57] Arguing that strategic failure often begins [00:07:00] not with bad intentions, but with institutional silence group think, and the erosion of professional candor. That work wasn't just historical scholarship. It was a warning and a warning that we need to heed, frankly, bluntly, that we need to heed today. Later on in Iraq, particularly in Opher, Iraq, Northern Iraq, you helped pioneer population centric counterinsurgency at a critical moment with the United States was relearning painfully that wars are won, not just against enemies, but most importantly for societies.

[00:07:56] Growing strategic and coherence a moment [00:08:00] when assumptions about US primacy, alliances, and norms were all under strain amid a dramatically global, uh, system in transition. Uh, and amid that ambiguity, ambi ambiguity that comes with those kinds of transitions. Since then, through your recent books, teaching and public engagement, you've continued to ins to insist on a core idea that anchors today's conversation.

[00:08:54] Abroad certainly, but also at home. Across the global chess board, compound [00:09:00] security dilemmas are stacking, they're converging, they're feeding back into one another, just a quick list, and we're bombarded with them day by day, minute by minute. Russia's war against Ukraine, grinding into, into a protracted contest of endurance, Israel Gaza, reshaping the regional security order in the Middle East.

[00:09:45] And simultaneously a gloving, what I'll call a growing illiberalism on the home front where civic trust, international legitimacy, or institutional legitimacy that is and democratic restraint are increasingly contested. America [00:10:00] remains the most forceful nation on earth, but force in what really matters power, real power today is no longer unitary.

[00:10:31] The question is more about how America leads into what ends and at what cost, especially when the founding paradoxes of the Republic. Oh, no longer background noise, but again, once again, front page variables and strategic competition. So General McMaster, with that framing, uh, let's genuinely begin. And first I want to give you the microphone, sir.

[00:11:19] Again, thanks so much General McMaster for being with us. The Mike's yours. Hey, I,

[00:11:40] Of the people's Republic of China and, and Russia. And, and essentially what, what, uh, China, Russia have done is pulled into the fold. The only hereditary communist dictatorship in the world in North Korea and the Theocratic dictatorship in Iran, as well as others. Others who are fellow travelers with them who can reinforce their efforts [00:12:00] in this hemisphere.

[00:12:20] And in China's case in particular, its status mercantilist economic model. Yeah. And if they were to succeed, uh, they would make, that would make the world less free, less prosperous, and less safe. Now, fortunately, I think for us, uh, you know, they, they were emboldened, um, by a perception of weakness in the United States, uh, and in the western world and, uh, more broadly, and the belief that, that, uh, that we were, uh, that we were that weak, you know, divided, decadent and, and, uh, and they were emboldened by this perception of weakness, which I think in recent years, you tra can trace back, uh, [00:13:00] to the disastrous.

[00:13:21] Support for Ukraine with weapons and munitions in the 2022 to 2023 period. And this is when I think Ayatollah Honi, uh, looked at his to-do list and thought it was time to cross destroy Israel off that to-do list and lit the ring of fire around, around Israel with the, the, the horrible mass murder, uh, you know, rape kidnapping attacks that occurred on October 7th, 2023.

[00:14:10] Democratic form of sort of government, you know, all, all of our, all, all the ugliness and everything is, is for everybody to see. Uh, I think that these regimes are now showing how brittle they are. Mm-hmm. Uh, whether it's Iran. Which is spiraling downward in terms of the ability of that theocratic dictatorship to survive, whether it's Venezuela.

[00:14:50] So this creates an opportunity. If we take it, uh, in, in the United States and with our allies and partners, uh, to, I think, to, to [00:15:00] prevail, uh, over the, the aggression of this, this, this axis

[00:15:35] The rise of the. Of, of the two plus four or two plus five, um, axis, you know, growing axis of ops, opposition, they call it resistance. One man's resistance is another community's opposition. Right. But you've gi you've given a brilliant layout. I want to, I was planning on doing this labor. I want to go back to, and I've really revisit this a lot since, uh, you and, and your counterpart in, um, uh, as the [00:16:00] economic advisor when you were National Security Advisor, uh, Gary Cone.

[00:16:30] The new, the 2018, um, national Security Strategy, defense strategy. And I would hold that defense strategy for what it's worth up, uh, as an exemplar. I mean, I think it's one of our best national security strategies. I don't necessarily agree with everything substantively in it. I, I'm an American citizen, I have a right, but I think in terms of getting the framing right in the due logic and cause behind America's foreign, um, policy and security strategy and defense strategy undergirding it.

[00:17:21] Uh, and, and here's a quote. Uh, we engage with the world. Not to impose our way of life, but to secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity. That means identifying the interests and principles that make America uncommon and advancing them in the Middle East with our NATO allies, with the G seven nations and beyond.

[00:18:05] Rather than deny this elemental nature of international affairs, we embrace it. I think that, I think that is elegant. I think it's eloquent, certainly eloquent, but I think it's an eloquent, elegant articulation of that changing cha nature change in the character of geo global geopolitical competition that you've put texture onto today.

[00:19:02] Gen. McMaster: Well, like, you know, what we're getting at there was that, that, that the assumptions that we made about the post Cold War world were clearly by 2017, um, that they were, they were flawed assumptions.

[00:19:13] Gen. McMaster: Those being that, you know, an arc of history guaranteed the primacy of our free and open societies and over, over closed authoritarian systems.

[00:19:39] Right. Such that we could. Work on global issues under the auspices of international organizations, cooperatively, and that we were dealing with these, these two R's powers, uh, and, and had, and had to, to recognize the nature of the competition because our, because of those flawed assumptions, we had vacated critical arenas of competition, economic and security, and [00:20:00] diplomatic, uh, arenas of competition.

[00:20:29] To try to resurrect the run nuclear deal and wasn't responding to, to, you know, scores of, of attacks against, uh, by the Iranian proxies. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and client, you know, terrorist organizations against, uh, US forces, um, in, in the region, uh, had relaxed sanctions, you know, to the tune of we think about 80 billion to a hundred billion dollars, you know, filling the coffers of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps.

[00:21:16] So that, to the second part of your question, they perceive weakness because in in large measure, because of how. Politically polarized. We are and, and because of the vitriolic nature of our, our political discourse. And so what I would like to see is, is US politicians, you know, from the president and those who oppose 'em in Congress.

[00:22:09] Uh, he is, you know, in, in many ways circumventing congress in, in some of these areas, uh, the way that unit unitary, unitary executive theory brought to practice. Right. Well, yeah. Which is o which is okay in my view, in c in certain cases. I mean, you, for example, I don't think that that bureaucrats who are, should be unac, you know, uh, unaccountable to the executive.

[00:22:51] For example, you know, with some of the, uh, the president's kind of retribution agenda. Mm-hmm. Uh, but also under the Biden administration, the degree to [00:23:00] which the Biden administration had. You know, gone after President Trump, you know, or, or people actually in the state of New York, for example, you know?

[00:23:32] That's very dangerous. I would say the Biden administration was pushing a radical social agenda on the US military, you know, and that social agenda was, you know, uh, a quality of outcome instead of a quality of opportunity. Uh, as well as kind of the valorization of victimhood and, and this sort of affinity they have for various, you know.

[00:24:17] You know, I, and, and just, that's crazy to me. So I, I think that. Now what you're seeing is when Secretary Hexes came in, in their effort to, you know, to, to get rid of some of that stuff, they further politicized the military, you know, by or trying or trying to drag the military into, into, into partisan politics.

[00:24:58] We get rid of those people, [00:25:00] you know, and or on the far, on the far right that the military is woke. I don't know about you Ike, but I don't know any woke admirals or generals, man, you know?

[00:25:19] Mim Webster still talks about the original concept of wokeness being an awakening to. One of the core founding and framing paradoxes of the American experience being a nation born out of all men are created equal, and, you know, civil liberty and rights, un unalienable rights. But at the same time, paradoxically, uh, you know, structuring in inequality.

[00:25:50] Gen. McMaster: I, I, I think here what we ought to talk about is, is, is postmodernist, uh, you know, post-colonial mm-hmm. And critical theories and [00:26:00] certain tenets associated with them. One, one of which is. You should go for a quality of outcome instead of a quality of opportunity.

[00:26:27] And, um, and so I, I think. I mean, that's really what we ought to be

[00:26:32] Gen. McMaster: you know, and

[00:26:51] Right. I mean, we, we've, we've, we've got, we've got all, got a grievance. We've got a grievance narrative that's growing on the opposite end. You know, to, [00:27:00] to quote the president, you know, as early as last night or this morning talking about, um, the Civil Rights Movement, elements of the Civil Rights movement being quote unquote unfair, unfair to white, white Americans.

[00:27:21] Gen. McMaster: ab Absolutely. I mean, I, I wrote about this in, uh, in the book Battlegrounds in 2020. Yeah. When, uh, yeah. And, and essentially the way I understand this is essentially an interaction.

[00:27:56] And then this is, this is what's spinning us apart from each other. And I, I, the [00:28:00] vast majority of Americans don't buy. E either one of the, that crazy extreme, uh, mm-hmm. Positions. But what has happened is, is really, I think a, a nu, a number of, of things have happened, uh, that have dev delivered blows to America's psyche, uh, and eroded our, our common identity.

[00:28:46] Mm-hmm. Then he, how about the financial crisis? 2008, 2009, toss in an opioid epidemic into that. Mm-hmm. And then the effects of social media. That whose business model is to show to get more and more clicks, to get more and [00:29:00] more advertising dollars and to do so by showing people more extreme content and, and uh, you know, and various conspiracy theories.

[00:29:08] Gen. McMaster: Then toss in a pandemic, you know, uh, George Floyd's murder and the violent aftermath, ma math to, to that. And then, I mean, it just goes on. Right? So, so those traumas. Uh, I think have, have, um, as well as kind of the associated with it, vitriolic nature of our political discourse. I, I is, I is fragmenting our country, you know, and it creates a perception of weakness and, you know, are our enemies take advantage of that, Ike.

[00:29:37] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: You know, I mean, I mean, I, I would, I would too just from a, just from a campaigning and strategy approach. Yeah. I would do, I would look for those. Cleavages and I would, I would aim to exploit them. Well, I,

[00:29:55] It's very clear. The evidence is clear. Even going back to the 2016 elections, [00:30:00] remember the narrative that, you know, the, that, uh, that that President Trump was an illegitimate president. That narrative on the far left, hey, that, that's like, that helped the Russians out. You know, tremendously, you know, so Nancy Pelosi and Rachel Maddow, Hey, congratulations, you just helped out the Russians.

[00:30:35] Mm-hmm. And the, the election denial activities, you know, that he was engaged in the, um, candidate for governor in Georgia. You know, Stacey Abrams, she contributed to that kind of stuff too. So this is what I'm talking about in terms of politicians who compromise our confidence in our democratic principles, institutions, and processes to either advance their own agenda or to score partisan.

[00:31:04] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: Yeah.

[00:31:15] Mm-hmm. Cyber enabled information warfare, whatever you wanna call it. Right. And what we found is that 80%. 80% of of the Russian disinformation efforts were on issues of race Yes. To try to divide Americans based on race.

[00:31:32] Gen. McMaster: Then the second was on, on, on, on the border. Right. And then the third was on, on, uh, on gun control and the right to right to gun ownership.

[00:32:03] Yes. You came right in to try to, to try to pull people apart in front. So what's the role of leadership? Right. Leadership, I think is to get to the politics of addition, right? Hey, let's begin conversations with what we can agree on, you know, and, and as a, and we could get a lot done if we just focused on what we can agree on.

[00:32:43] They're doing with, you know, with, with promoting the kind of civil discourse, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, there're lead, I mean, ASU is a leader in a lot of things. But what, but what they've done with the, this forum on civil discourse is fantastic. Yes. And they bring in controversial people, but they do it in a respectful way.

[00:33:06] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: man, I, I would, I would say it's a, it's a hard blood and treasure earned. American, right?

[00:33:13] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: Ab,

[00:33:23] Because if you put the word institutional and structural in front of every problem. You rob people of agency. Well, can I, and whatcha left with, you're left with like, a toxic combination of anger and resignation.

[00:33:45] So, you know, travelers, we've, you know, of all the things that General McMaster is, he is also a, a, a genuine bonafide historian. I'm a political scientist by my background. So the fact that, you know, we've had, you know, we're not supposed to like each [00:34:00] other, not supposed to engage each other academically in the, in the world of academia.

[00:34:33] Critical theory. Yeah. I'm talking

[00:34:34] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: like sort of a neo-Marxist orthodox. Yeah. You're, you're, you're talking plainly, you know, but just put it bluntly. You're talking about critical race theory. You're talking about crt?

[00:34:43] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: it's all, it's all sorts of critical

[00:34:44] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: got Right, but, but in this context, critical race theory where I would, I would put just like CRTI would put GRT in the same category.

[00:35:04] Gen. McMaster: drawing us from the middle. I'll tell you. I think there's, that, that's exactly way to, to think about it, is, you know, these extremes kind of make the same, uh, you know, similar arguments, you know, and, and, uh, and feed off each other in, in a lot of ways.

[00:35:35] Yes. Or, uh, or the know nothing party, for example, the anti-immigration movement. Exactly. Uh, in, in the late 19th century. Um, so the way I think we have to rec, uh, understand this is that we should, we should, you know, kind of question these orthodoxies in the academy and, and secondary education. Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, but not, you know, not say, Hey, you can't.

[00:36:13] Right. Uh, you know what this interpretation, uh, of the world is profoundly arrogant, you know, because it kind of, you know, it, it, it kind of, uh, um, doesn't acknowledge the agency and authorship over the future that

[00:36:32] Um, but you know, on the, again, another interpretation of the institutional structured inequality argument. Is that looking for structured in inequality and inequities is, and could be from a policy standpoint, from a, from a civic engagement standpoint, a way of taking the finger, pointing blame away from individual to individual and us [00:37:00] collectively looking at what is structured in, that's a different interpretation.

[00:37:09] Gen. McMaster: Yeah. I mean, so I mean it, right? It does. You know, so, so here's what I, I see going on that's really troubling from a historian's perspective is, is that, you know, the, the sort of, uh, the reaction, uh, to the various kind of interpretations of history, like the 1619 project and so forth, the reaction to that is, is to, is among some people, is to try to replace.

[00:37:45] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: cause narrative

[00:37:48] So, hey, I think Amer, we can't buy into this nonsense, right? Yeah, yeah. What, what, what we have to do is to, to your, to your point, part of. You know, our agency is to acknowledge that, hey, it still [00:38:00] matters, the zip code into which you were born. Exactly. Because, because that determines the number of obstacles you have to overcome.

[00:38:09] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: And that's true for black, brown, and white folks. I mean, I'm, I'm just thinking of, you know, places like Appalachia, right? I mean, this is, yeah. This is another ism, right? A, a, a wealth gap in, in socioeconomic, structural, socioeconomic. Disparities, right?

[00:38:32] Gen. McMaster: something

[00:38:34] Gen. McMaster: Yeah. You

[00:38:35] Gen. McMaster: you know, you mentioned was a great guy, a great a, a great guy. You know, there's a book agency by Ian Rowe. Yeah. I dunno if you know this book. I do. And, and he's, he's the founder of Vertex Academies, uh mm-hmm.

[00:39:15] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: about it, man.

[00:39:37] Yeah. So, exactly. So a double, double insult to you. Sorry about that, Gerald. Sorry about that. You, I wanna, I wanna, you know, I'm, I don't know, I'm gonna do a weird thing and turn my back. I, let me see if I can get the shot right. Um, you can see in some cases on my bookshelf you'd mentioned 1619 project and how that narrative, um, can [00:40:00] feed a blow back extreme response of a hyper happy, you know, neo return to a lost narrative.

[00:40:35] It's 16, 19, it's McCullough's 1776. That's for all of us. All of these are for all of us. And from there it's. It could be John, you know, John Meacham's biography of, of John Lewis. Um, you know, his, his truth goes marching on. It could go through James Baldwin, it could go through Stonewall, it could go through the [00:41:00] feminist mystique, right?

[00:41:36] But I, I think the whole story. Yeah, is all of those books I laid out and many more and we're still writing the books, right, more and more towards that more perfect union. We can't self-select in the one book that tells only one part of the story of us. I think it's a really important part point for us to con to have a little bit of a discussion on in this 250th year of.[00:42:00]

[00:42:20] Thoughts on that? I know a ated a little bit. Yeah. I would just, I would just

[00:42:40] And I'm talking about, you know, efforts to sort of, you know, to portray slavery as a, as a benign. Uh, institution, uh, or to, or to, to pretend, uh, to pretend that the Civil War resolved once and for all, you know, right. Quality of opportunity in the country. It, it didn't, right? Yeah. So, so, you know, I, I [00:43:00] think, uh, I put 16, 19 in the same, the same category, manipulating history based on a presentist agenda.

[00:43:30] To end that, that criminal insti institution and, and fight our, you know, our most destructive war over it, you know, uh, uh, to, to emancipate 4 million of our fellow Americans. And then of course, though, what, what we should teach. Is that, hey, that didn't resolve the problem. You had the failure of reconstruction.

[00:44:08] You know, and, and we should, we should learn about their contributions and learn that, that one of the most famous of those regiments had to fight with the French, you know, because of, yes. Because, uh, of, of, uh, of kind of racist attitudes among, among am some American commanders. And then we should learn that when, hey, when, when they, when the, these veterans came back that thought, Hey, you know, I, I deserve equal rights, you know, equal say in how I'm governed.

[00:44:53] I mean, right. So you to teach all this and then, and then you, but then, but then. But, but then you have to acknowledge [00:45:00] that there was progress beyond that with the civil rights movement. Yeah. And yeah. And, uh, and, and the achievements of the civil rights movement. So I just think what we have to do and what we ought to maybe encourage our young people to do is, you know, question any orthodoxy that's pushed on you and, and agree.

[00:45:41] And, and there, I mean, we can look at how, why this happened, how it happened. It really was during the, the post, uh, you know, post Vietnam period. Yeah. Now, hey, that interpretation of history always existed. This is Charles and Mary Beard. Mm-hmm. This is William Apple Williams. Exactly. You know, that's, and you know, that's okay.

[00:46:03] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: know? Yeah. Well, that, that's my, you've made, you've made my point more eloquently. That's why it's not one book. It's a series of books. Yeah, absolutely. And, and my question to you, I'm so glad you teed this up the way you did and frame this the way you did.

[00:46:34] Gen. McMaster: I think you just have to, you know, well, for, for the, for the military, I mean, obviously you just don't wanna get involved with this.

[00:46:50] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: you mentioned the heritage. You mentioned the heritage of some of our great, just an example, some of the, our great African American Black American soldiers, um, you know, [00:47:00] people call 'em now, I guess with a bit of a pejorative.

[00:47:27] Yeah. Between that notion and, and aim. In current contemporary policy, how do we how that, there's a big gap there. Well, the way, the way, the way to do

[00:47:50] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: Yeah. Yeah. But what,

[00:48:14] Exactly. You can't understand America without, without it. And, and, and so, and, and you have to place it in, in, in broader context of our overall experience and Right. And I think the theme. That that holds up across all American military history is that our republic on our 250th anniversary. Is today, as our founders knew it to be, uh, a work in progress that required, in their words, constant nurturing, you know?

[00:48:50] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: see, where do you see us? Where do you see us today? How do we get back? Yeah, and we probably begin to close here. I know, I know. We're, we're pressing the graciousness of your time, so maybe we [00:49:00] can start to begin the end with, with this kinda line of conversation.

[00:49:04] Gen. McMaster: Well, you know, I, it really begins, it goes back to what we talked about at the beginning, like, I mean, it's, it's like, you know, how about some civility, man? You know, how about, you know, recognizing, uh, you know, obviously the different cultures and races and sexual orientations, everything. And, but, but, but let's not, you know, let's also be cognizant of our common humanity.

[00:49:42] Yeah. Than our differences. So let's, let's acknowledge, and that's, that's something we can

[00:49:48] Gen. McMaster: we

[00:50:03] Yeah. And one of the things that haunts me, one of the things that ins, you know, motivated me to do the substack compound security unlocked in the companion here, the civic brief is because as a, as a veteran coming home, you know, you walk the streets of American, those old worrisome smells and senses and sights start to look all too familiar.

[00:50:50] Gen. McMaster: not, I'm not as concerned as you are because I think that.

[00:51:12] Yeah. I mean, the, the vast majority of the students I interact with, they don't buy any the nonsense on, on either end of that spectrum, right? Mm-hmm. And, and so I, you know, I, I think that, you know, the time is now. For all of us, wherever we are Yeah. To convene our fellow Americans. Right. Uh, to, to have meaningful, respectful discussions about how we can work together to build a better future, you know?

[00:51:48] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: I always, always teach. Yeah. Yeah. And, and at a SUI mean, I have, I, I have a similar experience, right?

[00:52:18] Right.

[00:52:36] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: you know, later in the year, I may ask you to come back on and we can have a conversation about a 21st century, uh, for form of national service.

[00:53:00] I know I'm, you know, you're very grateful to the time today. Um, okay. Here's, here's, here's a few questions. One, founding paradox we still misunderstand as Americans. Uh, well you from our,

[00:53:27] And um, and I think that. There's a tendency to believe that power between the branches is shifting inexorably in favor of one branch or another, when in fact they were designed to be intention with one another. Yes. And, and, uh, and, and so I have confidence that, that, that, that our, our republic will prevail because of the how brilliant the design was in 1787.

[00:53:54] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: How about, um, one strategic myth? We must retire. [00:54:00] Okay,

[00:54:28] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Um, let's end on a positive one, one civic habit that makes strategy smarter.

[00:54:54] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: Mm-hmm. I'm gonna leave you with this question. Um, it's an unfair one 'cause I didn't, we didn't [00:55:00] talk about before. We're coming up on the midterms and we're coming up on the backside of that with, uh, the 2028 elections with, with the state of, of Union or disunion. Today, we, the people, what I worry about most is a lack of fidelity, a growing lack of fidelity of the people to their governing institutions and the concepts and the ideals behind them.

[00:55:51] Gen. McMaster: Again, don't compromise confidence in our democratic principles to score partisan points. Yeah. And. Anything that, that improves the transparency of elections is a good [00:56:00] thing. Yeah. I mean, this idea, the idea that to sh to to show your ID to vote is the equivalent of Jim Crow. That's nuts. Mm. You know, or the, or the idea that, you know, voting should be invalidated and I, I mean, it's just stop it.

[00:56:39] I love it.

[00:57:03] Uh, this is the first episode. There'll be three more of this experience in exploring paradoxes, founding and framing, uh, for the month of January's experience. And you can also find companion pieces. On compound security unlocked. I want to encourage you to go out there and revisit if you haven't visited.

[00:57:51] And sir, I know you have a podcast as well. You do a lot of, of civic engagement yourself. Uh, if you wanna make a comment, comment out, a shout out to draw [00:58:00] people there. Uh, please do. But with that said, I'll give you the last word, and thanks again for your time and your participation.

[00:58:06] It's, it is a privilege to be with you and, and I, I do try as you are, and I'm so grateful you're doing it to try to promote, uh, you know, meaningful, thoughtful discussion, uh, of the challenges we're facing, and do that on today's battlegrounds, uh, on the Good Fellow Show and on the, in the Substack blog free blog, uh, called History.

[00:58:25] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: love

[00:58:26] Dr. Isaiah Ike Wilson III: outstanding. Thanks. Thanks gentlemen. Cheers. Take care. Take care.