Tonight’s episode is about QUEEN Ava Duvernay, the director behind 13th, Selma, A Wrinkle in Time, and Origin as well as the founder of ARRAY, “a multi-platform arts and social impact collective dedicated to narrative change,” which is what we’re all about here on Our Voices Project. Joining us on the podcast is Dr. Katrina Overby aka DJ Spin Dr. KO, Dominique Alexandria Simmonds, and Kamesha B.

Katrina is an activist scholar who is interested broadly in media, race, sexuality, and gender. Specifically, her research interests are in:

Black Twitter, social media and culture, African American cinema, race and identity in television and popular culture, sports media, and the scholarship of teaching and learning (SoTL). Follow Katrina on Instagram and subscribe to her YouTube Channel.

To learn more about paths to repair the harm done by media, visit Media 2070: https://mediareparations.org/.

Dominique Alexandria Simmonds is a creative, mother, and founder of Caribago Designs, where Afro-Caribbean heritage, Melanated arts, and visual storytelling converge. Passionate about celebrating culture through design, photography, and textile art, she brings vibrant energy, heritage, and joy to every encounter. Visit her website at https://www.caribagocreative.com/ or give her a phone call at (585) 622-4562 to work with her! You can also follow her on Facebook and Instagram.

Kamesha B is a multifaceted creative based in NYC and Rochester, NY, weaving her talents as a writer, producer, director, and media consultant into a tapestry of storytelling. She has worked with CBS News, The Food Network, Six Point Pictures, Seed Vision est89, and Amazon Prime Video.

Kamesha’s career aspiration is clear: to create uncompromising stories that challenge conventional paradigms and bring authentic visions to the screen. Her academic journey includes a B.A. in English from Buffalo State University, followed by a deep dive into Storytelling at Johns Hopkins University, where she earned a dual M.A. in Business and Film Media Studies. Visit her website at seedvisionest89.org.

Wherever you’re listening from and hit that subscribe button. If you liked tonight’s episode, please give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you loved about tonight’s episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. We’ll be back with more episodes every Thursday with old and newly released movies that center Black, Brown, and Indigenous folks, general movie news, and interviews with film festival programmers/curators, film critics, and filmmakers!

This has been Jackie McGriff, your host for this episode of Representation in Cinema. As always, thank you again for listening!

Chapters:

00:01 - Introduction to Representation Cinema

00:56 - Introducing Ava DuVernay: A Journey Through Storytelling

22:26 - The Role of Media in Criminalization

42:25 - The Impact of Media on the Civil Rights Movement

47:08 - The Impact of Media on Historical Narratives

01:02:07 - Exploring Themes of Identity and Transformation in Film

01:18:20 - Exploring Diversity in Film Adaptations

01:25:52 - Exploring Grief and Historical Narratives

Mentioned in this episode:

Lunchador Podcast Network

Lunchador Podcast Network is a network of podcasts originating in Rochester, NY. Our goal is bringing creative people together to be a positive force in the arts community. The shows that make up Lunchador are owned by the creators and cover a wide range of topics and backgrounds. http://lunchador.org/

Behind the Studio Door

Behind the Studio Door, hosted by Molly Darling and Christian Rivera, takes listeners on a captivating exploration of artists and their creative processes. Through deep and meaningful conversations, they uncover the stories and experiences that shape the outward expression of their work. https://behind-the-studio-door.captivate.fm/

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

Hello Pod and Happy April.

We're moving right along with Celebrating Black Directors.

I'm your host, Jackie McGriff and if this is your first time listening and or watching, welcome to Representation Cinema.

We talk about the films that center Black Brown Indigenous voices as well as on the film industry itself.

I'm not only your host, but also the founder, director and co producer at our Voices Project, a production company that shares the stories and lived experiences of Black Brown Indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We we are community engaged filmmakers who firmly believe that you can't center the stories of Black Brown Indigenous peoples without also being in community and in solidarity with them.

If you're watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and a little bell to get notified about when new episodes drop.

If you're listening on your preferred podcast platform and you love what you hear on this episode, hit that follow button, Rate us five stars and leave a comment to share your thoughts about any of the things that you hear in tonight's episode.

By the way, tonight's episode is about Queen Ava DuVernay.

Again, that's no shade to Beyonce.

I just call it the Queen because that's the Queen to me.

The director behind 13th Selma A Wrinkle in Time and Origin, as well as the director behind the series When they when they See Us and the founder of array, a multi platform arts and social impact collective dedicated to narrative change, which is what we're all about here at our Voices Project.

Before I get into some background about Ava DuVernay, I'm going to introduce our guests returning to the podcast, starting with Dr. Katrina Overby aka DJ Spin Dr. Ko.

Hello.

Hello listener.

My check.

121 2.

Katrina is an activist scholar who is interested broadly in media, race, sexuality and gender specific.

Specifically, her research interests are in Black Twitter, social media and culture, African American cinema, race and identity in television and popular culture, sports media and the scholarship of teaching and learning.

Glad to have you back Katrina.

Thank you.

Happy to be here.

Yes.

Next up is Dominique Alexandra Simmons.

Dominique is a creative mother, creative mother and founder of Carabago Designs, where Afro Caribbean heritage, melanated arts and visual storytelling converge.

Passionate about celebrating culture through design, photography and textile art, she brings vibrant energy, heritage and joy to every encounter.

Welcome back Dominique.

Thanks for having me.

Happy to have you here.

And now joining us for the first time virtually is Kamisha B.

She is a multifaceted creative based in New York City and Rochester, New York.

Weaving her talents as a writer, producer, director and media consultant into a tapestry of storytelling, she has worked with CBS News, The Food Network, Six Point Pictures, Seed Vision, Established 89, and Amazon Prime Video.

Kamesha's career aspiration is clear to create uncompromising stories that challenge conventional paradigms and bring authentic visions to the screen.

Her academic journey includes a Bachelor of Arts in English from Buffalo State University, followed by a deep dive into storytelling at Johns Hopkins University, where she earned a dual Master of Arts in Business and Film Media Studies.

Welcome, Kamisha.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, so on to Ava DuVernay.

I believe films are meant to challenge us.

In the golden age of Hollywood, movies were primarily seen as a means to make money.

They still are today.

But filmmaking is an art form.

In my opinion, the greatest works of art challenge us in how we see other people, other cultures, other worldviews.

They move us toward change.

They demand that we confront our past, embrace and sit with our grief, our faults and our frustrations, and speak truth to power.

Throughout her career, Ava DuVernay is an incredible storyteller and filmmaker who has done all of this and more.

She hasn't just crafted story lines that dream force us to confront our past, but to use that education as a tool to propel us forward.

In an interview with buzzfeed about her latest film, Origin, she states, I think that we haven't taught to or haven't been taught to or asked to ignore the things that really affect us and call it by something that allows us to put it away as opposed to walking into a dark room, turning on the lights, looking around and saying, there's nothing to fear here because I have the knowledge and knowledge is power.

So that's how I see it.

I prefer to know.

I prefer to read the book, talk to my elders and understand the theories, look at the pictures, watch the movie and know what's going on and empower myself in that way.

I just invite people to think about it like that.

That as opposed to trafficking in trauma.

That's how I go about it.

Born in Long beach and raised in Compton, she was encouraged at a young age to say something through the arts by her mother.

She'd spend every summer in Lons County, Alabama.

For for anyone who isn't familiar, this is a place where black the black community members there, as well as activists and students from sncc, fought for voting rights for the the black population there.

This is a town that is no stranger to political action and where Ava would eventually get the inspiration to write and direct a movie about Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. DuVernay was already an established entrepreneur who created a successful film publicity agency, but picked up the camera in her early 30s out of a desire to tell her own stories.

For me, it was really whatever I could do to not be lonely, duvernay said during Fast Company's Most Innovative Companies Summit.

I would get into these spaces as an artist and feel lonely.

I wasn't seeing any other people like me.

Some people get in a room and they're the only one and they like that.

They feel special.

They like that position.

I don't like that.

I look around a room and I and I think, where's everyone else?

Since then, she's also launched the production company Array Filmworks, which recently added podcasting, and the nonprofit division Array alliance, which houses resources for grants, mentorship and online education, tools and and now Array Crew, an inclusive database of below the line workers, meaning camera operators, script supervisors, boom operators and so forth.

She's an amazing filmmaker who's opened the doors to so many people, lifting people as she climbs and telling stories that we wouldn't have seen on the big screen had it not been for her.

For me, giving Ava DuVernay her flowers comes from a personal place.

Had it not been for 13th, I wouldn't have taken the leap to become a filmmaker to launch our Voices project.

None of this I would have thought possible, especially in my early 30s, had it not been for Ava DuVernay doing the very same to speak to the queen's integrity herself.

She's always she's always had counselors, provided onset for anyone who needs to decompress, and allowing her cast and crew the space and time in order to do so if work becomes too much, especially given the subject matter that Ava, through her storytelling, forces us to face.

I also want to share another quote from her I'm not a director for hire, so I don't go around saying give me work.

I write things that I want to express as an artist, that I want to share and the things that interest me.

I'm interested in history.

I'm interested in community.

I'm interested in solidarity.

I'm interested in my brothers and sisters around the world and our interconnectedness to the spaces around us.

So whether that comes out as a wrinkle in time with a black girl traveling the universe searching for her father, or whether it comes out as when they see us the story of injustice of five boys who go up against the whole system to write their name or whether it's something like Origin, which contemplates humanity overall.

Indian people, Nazis, black folk, and the American south and the ways in which they are all braided together.

I think storytelling comes in all forms, and I'm fortunate that I get to tell the stories I want to tell.

That's why I'm giving Ava DuVernay her flowers.

If you haven't already watched her films, I highly recommend that you do so.

Okay, so with that, let's dive into these films.

And just so you know, we're going to be getting into spoilers, so you have been warned.

All right, so first, let's break down the movie.

For me, at least, that started it all.

13Th 13th explores the history of racial inequality in the United States, focusing on how the nation's prison system is a modern extension of slavery through the 13th Amendment's loophole, allowing involuntary servitude as punishment for a crime which drives mass incarceration, particularly targeting black Americans.

All right, so as far as your initial reactions, because I definitely know what mine was, Katrina, I want to start with you.

Yeah, Finally.

And I remember, I believe one of the quotes was from Donald Trump and talking about taking things back to the good old days.

But she interjected these cinematic moments where people were getting beat down in the streets, getting pulled from cafeteria counters, and so good old days for whom?

Right, right.

And so for me, it felt like finally, I had a cousin at the time who had sort of been repeating a lot of Raven Simone's talking points around colored blindness at the time.

And we had tried to have conversations before, and, you know, those sort of fell off.

And she had to watch 13th in a class, and she came out of the class crying hysterically and called me and said, cousin, I had no idea, you know, that this was truly the history.

And we just watched the first part.

So I would say that the impact has been long lasting, but there's still so much work to do.

That's.

That's.

That's.

That's my Reaction.

Yeah.

Kamesha, how about you?

I would say, like, I agree with everything Katrina said, because finally was my thought too.

And 13th was my intro to Ava.

And I just said, oh, my gosh, girl, where you been?

Like.

Like, you know, that's like, where you been?

And it just made.

I don't know.

It just.

It was heartbreaking to watch.

But I also enjoyed it so much because it.

You saw all the strategies that each policy and each president used to continue to, like, oppress black people.

And it just was.

It was beautiful just to tap into her cinematic brain.

But also the scholar that Ava is, it was a great intro to who she is as a filmmaker and as a storyteller.

And I think it's just a documentary that kind of played as a cinematic film in a way.

And I like how she was able to ask someone who put out just like, indie film was able to tap into the documentary world as well.

Because sometimes in the industry, it's said that you can't do those two things, that you either have to be a documentary filmmaker or a filmmaker or a TV writer or director.

But she was able to.

She's done it all.

So from.

Yeah, from going to.

I will follow to this, and then directing, like, Scandal episodes, it's like, what.

You know, like, the talent is just, like, there.

She's.

Yeah.

And I just.

I.

13Th is.

Is a great film to show a family member who might be struggling with identity or a student who may not know anything about the history.

Especially when these amendments come up in Congress just like it did yesterday, it's just like, you know, these are.

These are just good conversations to have even now.

So.

Yeah, for sure.

Dominique, how about you?

Wow.

Yeah, 13th was my.

My opening act for Ava as well.

And coming from a design aspect, just how impactful and, like, contradicting the visual was when it popped up on Netflix, like, ooh, what's this?

Like, I had no idea who the director was or who.

And I'm.

I'm not gonna sit here and sugarcoat.

I'm not a film buff, but when a graphic gets my attention visually, it's just like judging a book by its ever judge need to open, press, play.

And it.

All the things like, so.

What's the word?

Not impactful, but just so simplistic, but meaning so powerful.

All within 113.

You know, we already know how much weight that holds in our nation, and it was just very well portrayed from.

From top to bottom.

I'm not a big fan of documentaries either.

I'm not gonna lie I usually fall asleep, but not this time.

You're talking about when it came out.

I'm super pregnant, and I'm calling everybody in my family to come down and watch this with me.

So very well done.

It resonated extremely with others that I know who have been impacted.

We probably all know someone in our household, not household, excuse me, family or extended friendships or whatever, who have dealt with this type of discrimination or relations in.

In our everyday environment to this day.

So it was really good and well thought out to.

To shed more light to the masses.

Yes, I would absolutely echo what every single one of you said.

It was also my intro to Ava.

That's the first time I ever thought to, like, it seemed possible and plausible to become a filmmaker.

So sitting here watching this documentary, and I'm like, I.

Like, I could do this.

Like, I could.

Like, I'm sitting down, I'm hearing all of this, and also, like, annoying the crap out of my mom because, like, I'm.

I'm watching this and, like, I'm having to pause and going, but did you know this?

Like, oh, my God, like, did you even realize that about the 13th Amendment?

Like, I'm such a nerd.

And like, so when.

When it's introduced, like, the 13th has this.

13Th amendment has this loophole.

Like, we're.

I remember it like, it was like, in.

In school, there was, like, a brief moment that we, like, talked about each of the amendments, right?

You're talking about the Bill of Rights.

You're talking about all these different things, you know, and what each of these amendments are, right?

And, like, their significance.

But of course, there's not, like, a deep dive into what this really means.

And so to actually take that amendment, look at it, break it apart, and then see how it's been used time and time again, especially when it involves mass incarceration.

I mean, that first.

The first figure, right, that comes up is like, America makes up for five.

United States makes up for 5% of the population, but it is 25% of the world's incarceration.

I had to pause right after that.

There's so many moments within, like, the film where I'm having to pause.

And like I said, I'm.

I'm going to my mom.

Like, listen, I need you to.

We.

You need to sit down and watch this.

Like, this is.

And she.

She didn't.

Because she's.

She's not a documentary person either.

Which is fine.

Which is fine.

But, you know, I'm.

I'm a documentary filmmaker.

I love documentaries.

I love Documentaries.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, same.

Me and my mom.

It's our.

It's our thing.

So, yeah, we love a good doc.

Yes, absolutely.

We need shirts.

Oh, my go.

Yes.

I love docs.

Something there is out there.

But, yes, we will definitely make the T shirts.

But, yes, like, all of this.

All of this knowledge, and I'm sitting there, I'm soaking all of this in, like, having to really just, like, take and, like, digest, because there is so much packed in this one film.

I know that Ava, at some point made it, or they worked out a.

She worked out a deal with Netflix where they would also make it free on YouTube.

So for anyone who doesn't have Netflix, but, you know, to have access to that kind of knowledge, because it was being taught in CL or being shown in classrooms.

Right.

To make it available to people, and now anyone can access.

Right.

That film.

So really, you don't have any excuse, like, not, like, to go get that education for yourself.

But then, like, with all of this knowledge, I just remember, like, all of.

All of the things that I was learning through this film, all of the moments that I'm sitting here, I'm going, you know, like, I know, like, I have these aspirations to become a filmmaker.

I don't know if it's necessarily possible for me and then for her to have made that film.

Not saying that filmmaking is at.

At all easy, because it's not.

Every film is a miracle.

Every film is a miracle.

But, like, to sit there and she's put all these pieces together, you know, Dominique, you're talking about all of the.

The graphics and everything, all the interviews like, that she's made, the research that has gone behind this.

I'm just looking at that and going, oh, my God, I could actually.

I think.

I think I could do this.

I think I can actually become a filmmaker.

And it wouldn't be till, like, years later that'll be able to do that, but, like, yes, the planet.

She definitely planted the seed.

Nice.

So with that, I kind of want to, like, jump.

And of course, like, feel free to also, like, chime in with anything from the film that sticks out to you.

But for me, it wasn't all.

It wasn't just that.

That figure that we talked about about us being the 20, like, 25 of the world's incarceration just crazy.

But also talking about how Birth of a Nation, like, brought back, like, the Ku Klux, like, inspired the Ku Klux Klan to, like, come.

We can do this right there.

Yeah.

I was like, it's possible quite what we're looking for, right?

Like.

Like, what are you talking?

Like, hi.

That's another moment I had to, like, pause because I was like, are you.

So a movie that inspired this terrorist group, which, by the way, still isn't terrorist group.

Really?

No.

All right.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

But KKK, right?

No.

Remains to be seen.

Listen, you gotta have friends in high places.

Boom.

And clearly they do.

That's all he can say in that.

Like, oh, let's just erase.

But yeah, like, I would love to know, like, your thoughts about that or like, anything else in the film that stuck out to you.

I mean, a couple of things jump into my head right now, and I will be straight, transparent parents.

I have not watched this film since that time.

Like, I didn't rewatch it.

And these things are still stagnant in my brain.

Right?

So, like, again, the 13, the stripes on the flag to the unluckiness of the number 13 to the colonies or the original states that give the most detriment to our nation, if you.

If you ask me.

And of course, like, you mentioned the amendment, they're just so.

Those are like, the biggest factors that pop to mind.

And I think it brings more cur.

Curiosity to.

To deep dive on the meaning of those things.

Right.

And this, the.

What is it called?

The brand or the food industry?

Who can remember?

It starts with the letter A.

Is it archway or do you guys remember the.

That did the food for the jail?

Oh, gosh, trivia time.

I know.

Yeah.

I don't remember.

It's okay.

We won't.

We won't.

We won't take too long.

But it's in my brain and I've seen that brand, you know, in hospitals and things and just look at them differently.

I've.

After watching this, that, like, oh, that's.

What you guys do.

Yeah.

You're like, not okay, where are we food?

Anyway?

But yeah, those are just, like, at the top of my head right now.

Some very impactful situations.

And I.

Again, with that particular food industry, I'm not going to deep dive too far with it.

That is a. Aramark.

Aramark.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah.

What a delightful college experience it is eating Aramark food.

Sponsor of representation in our.

Aramark food.

Never, never in your life.

Everywhere.

Like, I can picture the.

The logo.

Obviously I could draw it right now, but I could.

The name just slipped for a second.

But, yeah.

Never knew about that until she shed light on them in the documentary.

And it just makes you look at things so differently, because I know they're not ones.

Right.

Yeah.

I would say, for me, it was the storytelling about media's role in black criminality and how it has played a key function in perpetuating stereotypes.

And so I'm glad you brought up Birth of a Nation because.

And this might have.

Even this.

This might have been.

In an interview for this film, Ava talks about how, you know, at the time, DW Griffith was seen and is still seen.

Yeah.

It's still lauded as a.

A di.

A film producer director that was ahead of his time because he was using.

I've been in a class that people are still using.

Yeah, yeah.

Classes where they're like.

Even though, like, we don't condone wd And I'm like, no, I don't even want to hear his name.

Why would you even.

Let's not.

And so in the interview, she's talking about, you know, this person, while maybe a great director, was racist and continue.

You know, really.

And.

And.

And the power of film.

When we really are thinking about the.

Power of film and they still give them their flowers.

Yeah.

They utilize everything at their disposal to push the narrative of criminalization of.

Of sexually deviant men.

And that is why it's okay for them to be locked up, because they do not see them as human to begin with.

And so I think it's easy to discard humans when you do not see them as human.

Right.

Turn the other cheek.

Yeah.

Kisha, how about you?

What Stuck.

Stuck out to you again?

I like Dominique.

I haven't seen it in a while, but it's still so many parts have.

You know, I still remember so many parts in the film.

Still has, like, you know, stuck with me over the years.

But I would, again, agree with Katrina, because I'm.

I have.

I have an interest in what media does to the black psyche.

And I.

That's why I connect so much with Ava's work, because I love how she talked about images and how the media, newspapers, just created these lies to make it seem like black people needed to be criminalized and how so much of these systems are connected to just slavery, the interconnectivity of it all just for labor and to build wealth off of us.

I also.

That.

I also remember that book introducing me to the.

Not book.

That film introducing me to the book the New Jim Crow, which I think was a.

Was a very, very powerful book for this time.

So.

Yeah, I just.

Yeah.

So I just.

The imagery, I think, was huge in that film.

Michelle Alexander, I believe.

Yeah.

Yeah, Brought that up.

The wealth of it all, that mass incarceration is a money making machine.

And I'm glad Kamesha brings up what media representation does to the black psyche or black cinema.

And they provide resources and a history of the damage that has been done.

And so I was recently spotlighted in one of their faculty or people spotlight someone that's used their work in a class that I took on racial justice.

And they've just been doing highlights of people that have used their resources.

And so they talk about how can the media repair what it's done.

Community to black people.

And first, it starts with acknowledging that there was harm done and the history and origin of those harms.

And so, I mean, if you visit that site, you will find so much information and so much to discuss.

So maybe one day we can discuss.

That on the podcast.

Yeah, yeah, that would be amazing.

2070.

And a good friend of mine that lives right here in Rochester works with that or works with that group and has a, a big hand in that.

So she might be interested in coming to the podcast as well.

You heard it here first.

Media 27.

Yes, for sure.

Let us.

Segue.

Oh, my goodness gracious.

Okay.

Another.

Another thing that, like, possibly because, like, I haven't, I think maybe every other year, ever so often, I will go back to 13th because there, again, there's so much packed in, in there.

But also talking about just all the ways in which, like, our government has, has created.

Right.

Like a system of, you know, of like, mass incarceration and especially with like, the label of criminal.

Right.

That they've used.

And that's, that's something that comes up quite a bit in the documentary.

But also this idea of like, this sort of like these kind of dog whistles.

So, so when they're talking about the Southern Strategy and talking about, like, how law and order, right, where the law and order president, you know, taking it all the way back to, like, Nixon.

I think they also mentioned Reagan in there.

But then they bring it back to, like, Trump's first presidency, saying, I'm a law and order president and law and order, essentially, like how that phrase has evolved over the years, right?

They're saying, well, you can't.

There's this whole, like, sound bite that they use from someone who is, who is teaching, like, how to use this strategy, you know, with other politicians or two other politicians.

He's saying, well, you can't just say the N word anymore.

You got to say this.

And then he keeps just going through and it eventually come becomes like law and order.

Right.

Whereas it's seen as something that is, you know, well, of course we want law and order.

Right.

Because otherwise we'd be chaos.

But it's.

So there's.

There's so much behind that where it's meant to keep black folks out of having voting rights, having housing rights, like all of these different things that we are.

Right.

We.

We have the inalable right as citizens.

Right to all of these things.

But then to use a strategy and couch it in such language that would necessarily put up like, you know, connect the dots.

Yeah, exactly.

Also, shout out to Ava for putting Angela Davis.

Yes.

In the film.

And talking about being on the FBI's most wanted list.

Davis took them to school.

It was like they said she trial, but she took them to trial.

Yes.

Right.

And walked out of there free.

And in.

In the interview that they were showing that she did with some after, and someone was asking her, well, what about the violence of it all?

Almost talking about the black community.

And she was like, you mean the violence like from Bloody Sunday, the violence on the 16th Street Baptist Church.

Right.

You know, all of these things.

I think there's just a lot of interconnected alignment between Ava's films.

And so even with some of the ones that we're going to be talking about now, they have through lines somewhere embedded in them.

Right.

Also, you mentioned Angela Davis, so there's also another documentary that I would highly recommend.

I think it's the Black Mixtape.

Yes.

And so.

And it's.

It's a focus on.

On Angela Davis as well.

And I remember that.

I think it was also.

I don't know if it's available on Netflix now, but I know for some time ago it was.

It was.

Yeah, yeah.

So that.

That's a really good one.

And I know there's like so many where she's featured or like, like the center or a focus, but.

Yeah.

Because it does this.

This.

That's the beauty of this film.

Right.

Like, it makes you question so much.

It breaks.

It breaks so many of like our systems down just through this one amendment.

And then it also, like you started.

You started to become curious about other things and so you started doing all these other deep dives and everything.

Yeah.

Is there anything else about this film that anyone would like to mention before moving on to our next.

I would definitely.

I mean, one of the biggest impacts, or not biggest impacts, but resignation is the fact that they've Created that system to keep people in jail longer or incarcerated.

Yes.

They come out with different skill sets, technically, if they come out.

But it's just another prolonged way of.

In slavery, as you stated or reminded us, that comes off generalized, you know, once you're.

It's a form of mental slavery or conditioning that you feel comfortable, almost comfortable being in this position, like, well, this is my life, you know?

Yeah.

So it's really.

It needs to change for sure.

How about you commission anything else that stuck out to you?

I mean, I don't know if you could.

Is it okay to say, like, platform names?

Like.

Yeah, okay.

It's.

It's been free on YouTube for a while.

For any of the viewers that haven't seen it or are worried about if it's on, like, a Netflix or streaming platform.

The whole film has been on YouTube for a while, if anyone's interested in watching.

For sure.

Katrina, how about you?

No, I think, you know, just more to think about.

Right.

More questions to ask and.

And thinking about what I'll be thinking about the next time I decide to sit down.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is, because it's.

I mean, watching it for the first time, I think you're definitely.

If you haven't seen it before, like, you're kind of overwhelmed by the amount, like, of information, because it really is.

You could do a whole, like, curricula, like, or just around that film because there's so much that's.

And I believe people have.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Into the classroom.

So I almost feel like there needs to be a part two of the film, but in a.

Or part three or part 13, who knows?

But at the same time, because society of.

Of that population, our population has been still fighting for reparations, we still need to be angry.

But at the same time, I want to.

I kind of want to see light shed on the ones who have gotten through and broken through this system and have made a life for themselves in some type of way.

Because that's damn near impossible, realistically.

So.

Yeah, I don't know.

Sure.

Yeah, I. I would imagine.

I mean, I know that there are documentaries.

I can't think of them off the top of my head, but I know there are documentaries that are centered around that very thing.

We'll try to find those and put them in the show notes for people to go.

Because I know I have definitely watched a few, but.

Yes.

So.

Okay, well, we're gonna move on to another heavy hitter, because that's just who Ava DuVernay is.

So getting into the.

The Film Selma, which is a historical drama.

Sorry.

The film focuses on King's strategy, his tense negotiations with President Lyndon B. Johnson, and the brutal violence faced by activists.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Is played by David Oyello.

And I would love to know your initial reactions to this film.

And, Kamesha, I will start with you.

My initial reaction was.

I thought cinematically it was.

It was done very well for.

Because, you know, the look of independent film is.

Is different than, like, you know, I guess, cinematic or.

Or like studio backed or studio.

Because I think this one was like Warner Brothers or something.

So indie films are different than studio films.

And for her to pick this as her first studio film, I thought was, like, it was brave.

So I thought cinematically it was done well.

Just from the attacks on.

On the Bridge, like with the Dogs and it.

She just tied it together so well.

I was like, go, Ava.

It just.

It.

It worked out so well.

And to.

To see David O. Yellow.

Well, I have a hard time with his last name, too.

Playing.

Playing King, I. I thought he did a pretty good job.

I was nervous at first when I heard he was playing King.

I wasn't sure what to expect, but I thought he gave a pretty good performance.

I felt like the casting was done well.

I thought it was well written, too, again, and that shows her reign to go from indie films to documentary to now this.

I felt like.

I felt like we were there during.

I was at least through the planning process, through the march that.

Through the.

Through the impact that it had after.

I thought it was.

I thought it was well done for her first film.

I thought it was.

And then the.

The original song choices, you know, like the song that Common created for this film.

I can't think of the song now, but for that song to be nominated for an Oscar.

Yeah.

Yeah, it won.

Yeah.

But it was a gore.

It was a beautiful song.

And yeah, just the trailers.

Everything was on point.

I was like, go marketing.

Like, she was in her PR bag.

Her PR bag came out.

Yeah, I was like.

So I thought it was brave for that to be her first studio film.

And it was admirable to just see how she put it all together, because I know a lot of her films, she puts her money into them, into the marketing and her knowledge that she has from working at the PR company, from working at a PR firm for 10 years, I felt like it all came together and Then to have the backing like Oprah.

And that's where their friendship started.

I thought it was a great.

Yeah, yeah.

Here comes.

Oh, now she's with us.

Like, okay, Ava, you know, so I thought.

Yeah, I thought it was well done.

Well done in terms of the writing, the cinematography, the casting, marketing, in terms of like a film standpoint and just the story.

I thought she did a really good job by.

Yeah, I thought she did a good job.

Thank you.

Dominique, how about you?

I'm not going to sugarcoat it or BS that I have not seen this film as yet when it came out.

Up to now, it's one of those films that I know I need.

I want to be alert and available to sit and have quiet space to do.

And unfortunately, those moments don't come up as often as I'd like them to.

Plus readily available.

Maybe it's not in.

I'm not sure where to get to see it, but it's on my to do list.

It's.

I've known the title and like, yes, I need to see this.

I also need to be in that headspace to be prepared to be angry or what have you, because we already know the real life history of MLK and all the things.

So again, being in that headspace and being ready to go hasn't been able to align as yet.

Yeah.

But I. I do prevail in to see her soon.

Seeing this.

Not see her, but, you know, y'.

All know what, saying I'm me.

Yeah.

Katrina, what about you?

This is a film I saw once.

Yes.

I have these films where I watch them, and I can only watch them one time, possibly once.

I felt like I had insider insight on this film.

So while I worked at the Black Film Center Archive at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana, I had the opportunity to actually meet Ava DuVernay while she was actually working on this film, while she was working on Selma.

So she visited the black films in the archive to do a masterclass and have other conversations and discussions.

And so I actually moderated a panel of her documentary, My Mic Sounds Nice, which we.

Which we.

We screened before she got to iu.

She also shared a tweet with my name in it.

And I was going around telling people,.

Like,.

Also as a.

As a president of the Black Graduate Students Student association at the time, we were able to put together an intimate lunch with Ava as well.

So I was sort of wearing a couple hats and I had all my feel of Ava then.

And so seeing what it sort of was looking like to put this together and Then to actually see it on screen, I mean, I was.

I was blown away.

And because it starts with that opening scene depicting the 16th Street Baptist Church.

So you're watching little black girl, their life talking in a church.

In the back of my mind, I was like, I feel like I know this is.

This is what this is about to be.

Yeah, yeah.

The explosion happens on the screen, and then you see the shoes.

Yeah, yeah.

And I really think that even this display.

I believe this.

This was one of the displays that was in the museum that's in dc, The African American History Museum.

I mean, and that is just a moment that sits with you and it's.

You hear the story, you know the story, but then to see it on screen.

Yes.

And so for me, it reinforces that history is really not entertainment, but lived trauma.

And so I offer myself up to see the histories of the people that came before us.

And so who am I to say I can't watch the film and knowing that folks live through it.

But I still grapple with that.

That's why I haven't finished watching when they see us.

I'm trying to bring myself to.

To seeing the history, to witnessing being a part of being a witness.

I think we are all a part of making sure history doesn't get erased.

That's probably why we go see these films while we watch them, while we talk with each other about them.

What can't be forgotten is the stories we tell each other.

Right.

And so I do believe that the performances were compelling, emotionally grounded scenes.

Pissed me off.

Okay.

Oprah playing Annie Lee Cooper.

Yeah.

All those Barry.

Arbitrary barriers to voters, Black voters.

And he asked her, say the preamble.

Say the preamble of the Constitution.

Right.

And then was like, name the 67 judges.

Or of the 67.

Which he probably doesn't even have.

What?

He asked.

Yeah.

How many are there?

And she answered, 67.

And then he says, name them.

Like, dude.

And then he looks at her and puts the Denied.

Right.

Yeah.

I wish I had a table.

I was ready to flip something, build the table, and then flip somebody.

Bodies.

Quite frankly, we are still voting.

Voter suppression.

Yeah.

With the Save America Act.

So as.

As historical as this film is, it is still present day.

Present day.

Yeah.

History still happening.

Yeah, man.

So Selma, you know, and.

But Selma gets back to the power.

The power of media.

Because when people saw what happened.

Yes.

During that first march.

Yep.

It actually compelled folks of different races who did believe in the cause but hadn't stepped out to become part of the march.

Got up in the march.

It, it, it propelled, it prepared, propelled the movement forward.

So while media has done a lot of harm, something like this, in this case it became the vehicle in which inspired other people to join.

Yeah, to join in.

Yeah.

And I like that you brought that up because in this time today, especially when we're talking about folks rising up, you know, we recently had like another no kings protest and, and, or march or parade, depending on who you talk to.

Right?

Yeah, I won't go down.

You know what?

Never mind.

I'm gonna keep moving on.

I'm gonna keep moving on.

But like when we're talking,.

Girl, right after this announcement.

Oh my God.

So, okay, so, so, so, but with, with all that going on, there's been a lot of conversation and what I hear a lot of folks saying is, you know, talking specifically about non violence and so nonviolence against a violent system.

And people always want to bring up.

And most of the time, most of the time I hear it coming from white liberals talking about again, using nonviolent.

Well, we got to be non violent, non violent against this violent system.

And, and then so they'll bring up the civil rights movement and I go, okay.

But that was in and of itself a strategy.

Right.

Because they knew that the camera would be there.

They knew that Americans, if they saw the violence that was being enacted against them and them not doing a thing, this is why people would, they would also hold these kind of like practice sessions where you know, if they're at a sit in, if they're marching, right, and someone comes and spits at them, throws them down, right.

Is doing all these like horrible and violent things to them that they would resist in the form of non violence.

They had a shared goal that the non violent acts that they were doing, right.

And the violence that would be enacted on them.

Right.

Would be seen by millions of Americans also.

This is the time when million, millions of Americans sat in front of the television at the same time together to see the news.

We didn't, they didn't see the news as fake.

News was reported objectively.

News folks saw themselves as, for the.

Most part, right truth seekers.

The way you're supposed to be is the watch dog of the government.

Is literally what a lot of what media was exist though media has done the harm, right?

The headlines, the imagery, they have not always done so in good ways.

But this was pre.

We're going to record ourselves.

Yes, there's social media that's happening at the same time.

So this was a strategy that worked for the time True for the time and for the structure in which media was existing at the time, in the ways in which people regarded and lauded media representation.

Ask a question after that.

Yes, comment.

So, like bringing it to today.

Do you.

I know this is not related.

No, go.

Go ahead.

Do you feel that how they demonstrated their communication and documenting this historical moment back then would have resonated as impactfully as it up for today?

You know, dealing with what we deal with now?

Sadly, I just think that people aren't as affected because we're so desensitized.

I mean, we are watching death.

That's kind of where I was getting at.

Like, like we can see someone die.

Yeah.

Right.

Real time.

And scroll on to the very next thing that.

So there's just not even, I think, a similar.

Yeah.

It almost feels like it's harder to make something happen now.

Completely different reality, you know.

Yeah.

But anyway, sorry.

No, that's.

I mean, that was a really good point.

Yeah.

In this conversation.

So thank you for bringing that forth.

Right.

Because I mean, so.

So many technological advances.

Right.

Have happened since then.

Media is now acting in a different way.

I mean like so much news is happening, but what they choose to.

And I guess this has always been it, but it's even more so now is like what they're choosing to highlight in the media is not what we necessarily need to know about, like what's going on.

And I.

And also in the way in which so media also acts as a. I don't know.

We're talking about this next month in our, in our series about centering Arab Americans or not next month, it's this month.

I keep thinking it's March anyway, so much.

But like, but, but in, in those talks I'm also talking about like how Jack Valenti, who was a.

Who's a former CEO of Motion Pictures, Motion Picture Science and Arts, said, and I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially that the government and Hollywood go hand in hand.

So that's what happens in film.

Right.

Certain.

Certain things, certain narratives.

Right.

That come across your screen.

Right.

Are to manufacture consent, to inflict atrocities on folks here and abroad.

Wow.

Manufacture.

But, but why this is also important is because media is fragmented.

Yes.

And so people have the ability to tune into to all the things that align or closely what they believe is their reality of what's happening.

And so, and so there are many things I was going to bring up with Selma.

Yes.

That the FBI's targeting of Dr. King also reflects this systemic effort to dismantle black leadership through Survey lands and personal attacks, which at the time came through on the family.

So the FBI director is sitting in the president's office, like, so we can get rid of King, like, permanently.

So they're talking about, like, killing right in the president's office.

And then the president says, I'm pretty sure I know that you can.

And then he says, well, there is some tension in the home, and we can manufacture that as we're talking about.

Yeah, there's a manufactured dismantling of black leadership through black family.

So get them to question their leader.

Get them to question that family unit, and then.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Isn't it sick?

It's crazy.

Like, yeah.

Wow.

I, I, I want to also touch on so.

Because, I mean, everyone's bringing up great points, as per usual.

But so, yes, breaking up the family, breaking up black leadership.

At the same time, at the same time that that conversation is happening, Katrina, there's also this thing that he's also playing against, especially when Dr. King is in there, you know, talking about the importance of enforcing.

Right, like, vote.

Vote part participation, you know, for black folks.

Like, so black folks, you know, even though they technically have the right being able to actually vote.

He's talking about that.

But then in that same conversation, he's also talking about the black militants, right.

That are also coming up at the same time and using all of that against, like, against Dr. King in a way.

So.

Well, Dr. King is the more kind of like, like, the palatable one.

I was like, well, this is the, this is the black person.

I'd rather deal with how history has painted Dr. King.

Yes.

Right,.

Right.

He was writing.

He was agreeing.

Malcolm X. Oh, yeah, okay.

Oh, yes, much closer.

But, like, isn't that good trouble?

Isn't that indicative, though, of, like, how, how our government has always moved?

Because here you have this conversation happening where this, this man is trying to, again, dismantle, like, King's whole, like, move or not.

It's not even King's movement.

I shouldn't even say that because it's, It's.

It's a group of people, right, that we're working together, but, like, to paint him as.

You're the leader of the civil rights movement.

You're the leader, which is how our textbooks treat it, but you're the leader of this movement, but at the same time, like, trying to find ways in which to, like, paint these ideas.

Try to break up the family.

Right.

To break up the movement and at the same time, also use.

Well, you know, we will.

We'll.

We'll work with Dr. King because we'd rather work with him rather than, you know, the black militants.

Right.

That are out here on the street.

You know what I'm saying?

So it's, it's, it's all of that.

It's, it's all of this.

It's like any sort of resistance, whether you know, you're doing it in nonviolent acts or you're, you're, you're, you are being free.

Just a revolutionary, a freedom fighter, which, I mean, Dr. King is in of his.

In and of itself is, is also can be classified as a revolutionary.

It's just like the, the strategies and.

The strategies and the methods that you're using.

Right.

Are, are different.

But I just thought that that was an interesting point.

That that conversation right there not only just like, speaks to so much of our history, but and also just like again, Ava being the incredible storyteller and screenwriter, that she is having that, like, that moment.

This is a moment like in a film.

It just speaks to so much.

She's done her research.

She's done her research.

She's talked.

Yeah.

Gotten the right people, I think, in the room.

Yeah.

In particular for Selma.

Yes.

Last.

I think the last point I want to, to like bring out before we move on to our next film because we are covering four.

Four films tonight, y'.

All.

So the, the thing that I kind of go back and forth about and not really go back and forth.

I have my, I have my opinions, which you will hear soon, but I wanna, I wanna get everyone else's opinions about the fact that at this time, Ava DuVernay, while she is writing Selma.

And then also.

And then like, as they're in production and stuff like that, couldn't use any of Dr. King's speeches.

She had to write King inspired speeches because another filmmaker had the rights for his own film.

That, that filmmaker being Steven Spielberg.

Oh, yes, I do remember that.

Yes.

So Dr. King's estate would not allow her to use the, the speeches in the film because Steven Spielberg already had the rights to make his own film about Dr. King.

How do we feel about that?

Dominique, you're giving me a look, let us know.

This has been a public service announcement for gatekeeping at its finest.

But I mean, seriously, thank you, Alex.

We'll go with 800 points, please.

How does that, what is in your.

In just initial thoughts, like when you hear that.

What is that?

It's cringe worthy, but it's, it's a contract.

Like it sucks, you know, there.

It's a bittersweet situation.

Once you get big in the business, people make their.

Their claims, state their claims, it gets validated, and then they move forward.

But the.

I. I have to bring it to today, where people say we tear contracts in half.

So, I don't know.

10 Years ago.

Well, a little bit over 10 years ago.

And she was a new filmmaker going up against children.

Spielberg.

Good luck, sis.

But she still made an impact.

Right?

So.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Kamesha, your thoughts?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's one.

She's a woman, a black woman filmmaker.

She's new to the game.

You know, she's a baby in the industry.

So he's not of kind to give up rights.

When you have rights to a film, it's yours for, I think, like, 16 months or something.

And you have to relinquish your rights or sell them over to.

To the other person.

And I doubt he would do that.

So it's.

It's.

It's unfortunate.

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but she didn't need it.

She didn't need it.

Somebody go say it.

She didn't need it.

Yeah, she didn't need it.

She did what she needed to do.

Better than the historical.

Yeah.

What my reaction is, I ain't never heard of this Steven Spielberg.

Right.

Where his film at?

Yeah.

Because that's the thing.

That's the thing about rights.

You can get it, and you.

And it can stay yours.

Like, you don't have to make the film.

You can just sit on it.

Yeah.

So.

And guess what?

She skyrocketed after this.

Yeah.

She did things because 13th followed.

Yeah.

In between.

So, like, like, she said she didn't need it.

I'm like,.

Never heard that.

But you know what?

That's.

That's funny.

I mean, yes.

The gatekeeping.

But even on a side note, in the real world of real estate, they do the same thing.

Well, they'll sit on what you call it, properties that are vacant for years, but because of tax purposes, they actually.

It doesn't hurt them.

They're, you know, like, depending on that situation.

They.

So we.

We ain't got to go way, way deep in that.

But it's just funny.

Like, is he making money on the side from this?

Even though he hasn't really made anything with it?

He doesn't need Steven's book, doesn't need to make anything.

Yeah.

Does someone need to remind them, hey, dude, let this go?

Because we really need to utilize this information for other Sources.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, I definitely felt.

I, like, I feel some type of way about it because I'm like, this is a black woman making a film about one of our ancestors.

Like, and you can't just give it away for free or just, like, work with.

He could have.

He could have gave it away for free and just put his name on the film as a producer without changing the script, without giving any kind of money.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, executive producer.

Like, that's what he could.

Yeah, he could have even needed, though.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

I'm glad he didn't either, because it would have watered down what she.

Yeah, okay.

Well, it would have just been repeating history in a sense.

Oh, Spielberg.

And the very name.

A white savior.

Yeah, you didn't need a white savior.

Yeah, but he could have did a.

You know, drop a song or something, maybe.

Yeah.

I know he's not a musician, but to have his name somewhere up in there, you know, why not?

Dang.

All right, well, on that shout out.

To Spielberg, though, we.

We rock with you.

Yeah.

What the hell, man?

Oh, he's.

Sorry.

So maybe.

Absolutely not.

Boycott.

Not hilarious at all.

Oh, y' all getting her upset.

She's turning red over here.

I'm sorry.

I.

Listen, I said it.

I said it before, and I said it again on this podcast.

Chris Rock deserved that slap.

And there's.

Come on.

Good here was good.

It was.

It was one.

Anyway, moving on.

Rub some tussin on your face.

It's fine.

Oh, God.

All right, she read y'.

All.

Let's get back to business.

Listen, keep my name.

I.

No.

So.

So anyway, moving on to wrinkling time.

I can't with y'.

All.

Okay.

You could do a comedy spot.

We could do this.

Oh, my goodness gracious, no.

I am not a comedian.

I know my strengths, and that is not one of them.

Well, we're laughing.

So it's going well.

I don't know if it's with me or at me, but that's fine.

Either way, it's all love, so wrinkling time.

Okay.

It is based on a science fiction and fantasy novel of the same name by author Madeleine l'.

Engle.

Meg Murray, played by Storm Reed, and her little brother Charles Wallace, have been without their scientist father or Mr. Murray, played by Chris Pym, for five years, ever since he discovered a new planet and used the concept known as a tesseract to travel There, joined by Meg's classmate Calvin o', Keefe, and guided by the three mysterious astral Travelers known as Mrs. Whatsit.

Mrs. Who and Mrs. Wit, or Mrs. Witch.

Played by Reese Witherspoon, Mindy Kaling, and Oprah Winfrey, respectively, the children brave a dangerous journey to a planet that possesses all the evil in the universe.

Okay, so who wants to start with their initial reaction to Wrinkle in Time?

I love whimsy.

Whimsical.

I feel like that's the place to start.

Right after we've talked about some heavy.

Yeah, but there were a couple of,.

You know, heavy, you know, things or.

Yeah, that came out because you got this young, mixed biracial girl who's labeled as hostile and aggressive after being aggressed upon.

Right.

I was cheering for her, honestly.

You know, I'm sort of like.

There are these broader patterns of, like, adultification and biases.

Yeah.

That you just see.

Come across lack of advocacy from parents and.

Yeah.

Principal and teachers and, you know, I hate seeing films or depictions of children not being heard.

Right.

Yeah.

I believe even though I've had great family structures and parents and things, I truly believe there were times I want.

I wasn't heard or understood and was the person that felt like, okay, I'm sort of just here at times.

And so.

Yeah, agree, Katrina.

You know, and I've been what you could call a troublemaker, especially back in the day, you know, or people would have seen me as a troublemaker for sure.

I remember telling one teacher, you know.

You know, my teacher can't tell me what to do.

I've since grown.

Okay,.

You are the teacher, right?

Oh, I tell my students all the time I was not a model student.

Okay.

But the.

The whimsy, the.

The themes of identity, self discovery, and inner strength at the intersection of, like, transformation, like, sort of having to know who you are, believing in what you know, and it gets her to this place to be able to travel and find her father.

And so seeing a film that's about really, transformation, being rooted in self awareness and recognizing one's own value was really.

It was.

It was fun to watch because I always didn't know what was going on because why they got to call Charles Wallace by his full name.

Every time they say this boy name,.

I was like, maybe it's a book thing.

They were trying to say there's a.

They're maybe hinting at his uniqueness and individuality being adopted it into this family of Murray's.

Right.

Because they're all Murray.

But.

But that's just his middle name.

He's Charles Wallace Murray, but they call him Charles Wallace.

I still could not find really why they called him this, this full name throughout the entire film.

Lot of whimsy.

Cool, cool outfits.

Oh my gosh.

Oh yes, the costume.

I'll stop because I could say a lot anytime it has to do with whimsy.

And so yeah, I'm still, I'm still fluttering a little bit because I watched this one recently and so though a lot of it wasn't feel good, the visuals of it going, going to these different worlds and, and seeing those kind of things, I just like to have my eyes on something colorful.

Yeah, absolutely.

Kamisha, how about you?

A Wrinkle in Time, I will say is not a film.

I really remember with Ava, I did watch it and I remember when she got the green light for this film and she got a huge, huge budget.

It was unheard of for a black woman who was only in the industry for she.

Less than 10 years in Selma was a hit.

She gets $100 million to make a coming of age story.

A first African American director to get this money, to get money like this, to make this film.

I was like amazed.

And I was.

I mean if.

Yeah, it's like, oh my God, this is great because when moment.

When moment.

100 Million.

Yeah.

When moments like this happen, you feel like you can do it too.

So you.

When moments for black directors, black actors happen, even if you're not in the industry, even if you just are a witness to it, there's hope, you know.

And I was excited for her to get a green light for this because I knew more opportunities for other black directors would come and eventually it did because Ryan Coogler.

It came about.

But yeah, I didn't.

I.

It's not a film that I would watch again mainly because I felt like I don't know if it was too soon for her to do something like this after, after Selma and I know I. Yeah.

So I, I don't know if I. Judgy, judgy.

No, no, no.

Can explain.

You get what I mean?

Like, I don't know if I could articulate it well because I do like how whimsical it was.

I love a coming of age story about black youth.

Like it's so.

And I love the, the, the whimsical aspect, the colors, how colorful it was, how daring it was.

I thought that the casting was, was interesting and I loved how so many people were pushing for it even if they didn't love it.

A Lot of people were pushing for Ava to.

To win, but I think I should have read the book before watching it.

That's all I will say, because I do feel like adaptations are a bit.

They're different.

And although, in a way, Ava is an adaptation kind of filmmaker, even if something doesn't have a book connected to it, there's history connected to it, there's facts, there's archives.

You know what I mean?

So I. I just think I should have read the book before watching it.

That's all.

Yeah.

I. Yeah.

Thank you, Kamesha.

I think two.

So two things that I want to bring up.

Number one is just like, kind of like a sidebar.

I remember a friend of mine who.

I mean, Madeleine l' Engle is like, her favorite author, and so she was pretty excited to see the film and felt that it was very kind of disjointed from the book.

I do take the point.

And I always.

And I've been learning this myself over the years, that, you know, each.

Each, like, the book is always going to be different from the film.

Like, no matter how.

How similar you get to the source material, it's always its own thing.

So, like, someone who has usually will read a book, and I've gotten less and less about that because I'm like, they're going to be two different things no matter what.

But, like, someone who, you know, would usually read the.

Read the book before watching the movie just to kind of see, okay, like, where did they kind of.

Where did they stay?

The same with the book.

Where did they deviate?

You know, and why make those decisions?

And.

Has always been fascinating to me.

But, yeah, like, I. I don't know.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Maybe you would have appreciated.

Maybe you would have appreciated it.

Maybe not.

I feel like, again, any, like, comparisons, like, to the book is already.

Because there's.

You have.

I mean, as.

You know, like, there's so many people in your ear, right?

Like, so you're writing it.

You also have studio execs, right, who are also stressing something.

You may also have actors who have been doing it a long time that have their own kind of spin on how they want to do things.

Like, there's so many different decisions that are.

Are.

Are kind of like being.

Being enacted, implemented or not, that happened between when you.

You read the book, put it to, you know, you know, put it into a screen screenplay, and then when it gets to production, and then even in production as well.

So, like, there's so many moving pieces, apparently.

So according to critics, this was a Box office flop.

Oh, so it was.

Even though it did technically.

So, okay, so Just A Wrinkle in time grossed $100.1.5 million in the US and Canada and 32.7 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of 133.2 million.

Did she use that entire budget?

So in the US And Canada, Wrinkle in Time was released alongside.

Okay, get ready for at this the Hurricane Heist, Gringo and Strangers Pray at Night, which I don't know if anyone remembers those films, but that last one sucked.

Okay, word from our producer.

And.

And was projected to gross 30 to 38 million from 39 3,980 theaters in its opening weekend.

It made 10.2 million on the first date, including 1.3 million from Thursday night previews.

It went on to debut at 33.1, finishing second behind Disney's own Black Panther.

So, yeah, so then it did like a drop.

So according to critics, considered a it, the film received mixed reviews from critics and was a box office bomb with a reported loss of 130.6 million at the box office.

So another thing that I also want to reiterate.

So Ava is in a film made by or documentary, because of course I'm going to mention a documentary.

But we love docs.

We love docs.

So in the film Half the Picture, shout out to Amy Adrian, who is a registered native, she made a film with a bunch of women directors.

And, and one of the.

One of the directors she's interviewing is Ava DuVernay and Ava dude and multiple other directors talk about how if they are these bigger budgets right after they've made, you know, a few films and everything, and they get the opportunity to get these big budgets, they're not allowed to fail.

Right.

There are so many male directors who are given big budgets, flop and are.

And continue to get all of these opportunities to make other big budget films.

So there's also this.

The, the systemic, you know.

Yeah.

Hindrance at play.

Right.

That's happening with women directors.

You know, you flop once or, you know, you don't make as much money as was originally projected.

You know, you don't have the other opportunity, you know, to, to get other, like, bigger budgets and everything like that.

So I think in.

In noting all of that, especially, you know, with this film, that was constantly what was going on in my head as I was watching the film.

Like you, Kamesha, I probably wouldn't.

And I'm a big, like fantasy science fiction girly, okay, quote Star wars and Lord of the rings right back at you.

Any day of the week.

I though, like, I'm sitting there and I'm going, I know I'm not the target audience because, like, you know, it's a PG film.

It's clearly made for kids.

And at the same time, I'm also just, like, I felt like, script wise, there was like, dialogue wise, there was kind of a lot missing.

Also.

I expected there to be, like, for the.

The Mrs.

Right.

To be more animated.

Right.

Like, and I think it was just kind of.

I found it kind of lacking.

I love that the.

That the center of the story is love.

It's of self love.

Right.

It's of self discovery and sticking up for yourself.

And so.

And there were so many things, you know, that.

That she was going, like, Meg was going through that I was like, oh, I could have easily related to this.

Right.

Like, as a.

As a kid, you know, you know, with her just being unsure.

Right.

You're a teen.

You're someone who's growing up, and you were very awkward.

I appreciated that.

But at the same time, I just felt like so much of the dialogue, it was kind of.

Kind of missing the mark.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Yes.

To hear, you know, when you're whimsy.

Okay.

Storm Reed did a wonderful job.

Yeah.

Storm.

Yeah, I agree.

Oh, she's always so good.

And I loved all the kid actors.

I think that they.

Yeah, I agree.

And in the bonus material of the film, she talks about that she saw it as a standalone from.

From the book itself, and that she was trying to foreground diversity.

She wanted the film to also, you know, mirror what the world looks like.

And so they were just talking about the diversity of the cast.

And, you know, I don't know, one of the most beautiful lines that came out of that, somebody was like, yay.

Somebody said, you know, it's okay to fear difficult truths or something like, it's okay to fear the truth, but we should not avoid them.

Yeah.

There's no other takeaway, so I can always find a takeaway.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sad to hear that.

That it was considered a flop, but I could see the.

The audience it was for.

Even though it might not have been for myself either, but I like whimsy.

So.

Yes.

Might have been a reach.

I mean, she's stepping into an arena that none of her audience that she has already start to generate are used to.

Yeah.