Hey pod and Happy Thursday! Tonight is the 4th part of our Black August series, where we talk about the films that highlight Black resistance, freedom fighters, and political prisoners. Sometimes Black resistance comes not only with physically fighting back, but with speaking against injustice putting pen to paper.

Tonight, we’re diving into Ida B Wells: A Chicago Stories Special, produced and written by Stacy Robinson. Freed from slavery just six months after she was born, Ida B. Wells once described her childhood with her parents and siblings in Holly Springs, Mississippi as “happy.” But a tragedy would alter the course of Wells’ youth. As a young woman and teacher, she refused to give up her seat on a train car that she was told was reserved for white women. That incident launched the young Wells into her first public fight for justice.

Through writing, Ida B. Wells found her “real” self. As she wrote, her words became an important tool to analyze, debate, and persuade readers on the issues of the day, particularly when it came to race and gender. But after the lynching of her close friend in Memphis, Wells found a new kind of power in her pen.

There are a few folks joining us on the podcast tonight to talk about this documentary.

Luticha André Doucette is the author of the groundbreaking book: Cultivating An Intersectional Mindset (Buy on Thriftbooks or Amazon.) She also was featured in an anthology, called Our Power- A Solitary Reverie (Buy on IngramSpark). An inductee into the Susan M. Daniels Disability Mentoring Hall of Fame established by the National Disability Mentoring Coalition and the 2020 – 2021 Distinguished Alumni Awardee from the Rochester Institute of Technology. Luticha’s research and writing has been featured in various publications such as Insect Molecular Biology, Toxicon, The New York Times, and Yes! Magazine. She is the owner of Catalyst Consulting Associates, which helps organizations, leaders, and advocates examine equity across race, gender identity, and disability in policies, practices, procedures, and relationships. You can follow her at https://www.instagram.com/freedomofmovement35.

Brionna Dunn is the author of the upcoming children's photography and emotional literacy workbook Follow The Lens: My World Through My Eyes. She’s also a creative director and the owner of the visual branding and photography agency Follow The Lens (also operating as Alejandra Paris Photos). Her photographic work spans editorial, portrait, fashion, event, and maternity photography, including serving as a featured photographer for the 5th Annual A&B Fashionista Fashion Show. You can follow her at https://www.instagram.com/follwthelens.

Dr. Katrina Overby is an assistant professor in the School of Communication at RIT, a public speaker, DJ, community connector, and recurring guest on the Our Voices podcast. Her work centers Black women’s representation in popular and digital media, sisterhoods in and beyond the academy, and Black feminist approaches to storytelling, pedagogy, and community care—work she continues through her newly launched brand and YouTube channel, SPIN Dr. KO Media. Make sure you go subscribe to her channel! You can also read her dissertation and articles centered on Black culture on Google Scholar. Last, but certainly not least, follow her on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/dr_ko_08.

Brianna Milon is a published author, communications professional and model who blends creativity and connection in everything she does. You can follow her at https://www.instagram.com/yesthatbri.

Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of tonight’s episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, & Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. We’ll be back with more episodes continuing our Black August series, including Attica (which is on YouTube) and Candyman, which you can either rent online or borrow from your local library before tuning into our next episodes.

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

15:22 - The Power of Women

19:24 - The Impact of Lynching and the Voices of Black Women

29:50 - Exploring Elitism and Community Division

35:32 - The Intersection of Race and Gender: Black Women's Struggles

45:14 - Community and Resistance: A Call to Action

50:57 - The Strength of Black Women and Their Sacrifices

54:46 - The Cost of Strength and Vulnerability

01:05:28 - The Untold Stories of Black Women in History

01:09:41 - Exploring Representation in Cinema

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Hello POD and Happy Thursday.

If this is your first time listening and or watching welcome to Representation in Cinema.

We talk about the films that center Black Brown Indigenous voices as well as on the film industry itself.

I'm Jackie McGriff, your host and the founder and director and co producer at Our Voices Project, a production company that shares the stories and lived experiences of Black Brown Indigenous Peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We're community engaged filmmakers who firmly believe that you cannot center the stories of Black Brown Indigenous Peoples without being in community and in solidarity with them.

If you are watching this on YouTube, make sure y' all hit that subscribe button as well as the little bell to get notified about new episodes when they drop.

If you are listening from your preferred podcast platform, hit that follow button and if you enjoyed tonight's episode, please rate us five stars and leave a comment letting us know your thoughts.

Tonight is the fourth part of our Black August series where we talk about the films that highlight Black resistance, freedom fighters and political prisoners.

Sometimes Black resistance comes not only with physically fighting back, but with speaking against injustice.

Putting Pen to paper Tonight we're diving into Ida B.

Wells, a Chicago Stories special produced and written by Stacey Robinson.

Freed from slavery just six months after she was born, Ida B.

Wells once described her childhood with her parents and siblings in Holly Springs, Mississippi as happy.

But a tragedy would alter the course of Wells youth.

As a young woman and teacher, she refused to give up her seat on a train car that she was told was reserved for White women.

That incident launched the young Wells into her first public fight for justice.

Through writing, Ida B.

Wells found her real self.

As she wrote, her words became an important tool to analyze, debate and persuade readers on the issues of the day, particularly when it came to race and gender.

But after the lynching of her close friend Thomas Moss in Memphis, William Wells found a new kind of power in her pen.

There are a few folks joining us on the podcast tonight to talk about this documentary, starting with Letitia Doucette, who's joining us virtually.

Letitia is the author of the groundbreaking book Cultivating an Intersectional Mindset.

Leticia's research and writing has been featured in various publications such as Insect, Molecular Biology, Toxicon, the New York Times, and yes Magazine.

She is the owner of Catalyst Consulting Associates, which which helps organizations, leaders and advocates examine equity across race, gender identity and disability, and policies, practices, procedures and relationships.

Welcome to the podcast, Leticia.

Thanks for having me and saying that mouthful.

I mean, listen, all of our podcast guests tonight are very accomplished women.

Next we have Briana Dunn.

Brianna is the author of the upcoming children's photography and emotional literacy workbook, Follow the Lens, My World Through My Eyes.

She's also a creative director and the owner of the visual branding and photography agency Follow the Lens.

Also operating as Alejandra Paris Photos.

Her photographic work spans editorial, portrait, fashion event and maternity photography, including serving as a featured photographer for the fifth annual A B Fashionista Fashion Show.

Welcome to the podcast, Brianna.

Hello.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

All right, and we're going to get into our podcast regulars on the show.

Dr. Katrina Overby is an assistant professor in the school of Community Communication at rit, a public speaker, dj, community connector and reoccurring guest, as I said, on our Voices Project podcast, as well as one of our storytellers in our film Being Black in America.

Her work centers Black women's representation in popular and digital media, sisterhoods in and beyond the academy, and black feminist approaches to storytelling, pedagogy and community care work she continues through her newly launched brand and YouTube channel, Spin Doctor Ko Media.

Make sure y' all go and follow that as well.

We'll put that in the show notes.

Of course.

We're going to.

And then of course, yes.

Welcome to the back to the podcast, Katrina.

What's up pod?

Please do become subscriber 51 to the.

To the YouTube 51.

100 500.

Come on, let's get those numbers up.

Get those numbers up.

Last but certainly not least, another podcast regular, Brianna Milan.

Bri is a published author, communications professional and model who blends creativity and connection in everything that she does.

Welcome back, Brie.

Thanks for having me.

Always happy to be here.

Yes.

Okay, so all that being said, let's get into the discussion.

So I want to know your initial thoughts, your initial reaction and also too if there was anything because there was a lot packed into to this hour long like like 59 minutes or 59 minutes but an hour long film about IDB Wells.

You know, was there anything that you didn't know?

And we'll start with Letitia.

Well, I'm kind of a Ida B.

Well, Stan, she was my inspiration to become a writer and especially talking about those intersections between being black, a woman and disabled because we're often left out of so many conversations, especially in Black conversations.

And so it just felt really good to see yet again how her story, like, mirrors mine and my mirrors hers.

Okay.

Even down to the story of, like, sorting through the kids who's gonna take which kid.

That happened to my mother when her mother died.

And her father had the exact same reaction that I had to be wealthy.

My kids.

Right.

So it was just, like, super powerful to see the photos because we only get that one photo.

It was a little eerie.

They animated it.

That was creepy for me.

But seeing her young, her as she aged, living this full life, and she was such a badass.

Yes, yes.

She was like, I gotta be more like her.

All right, we'll start with.

And then also go to Brianna.

Yeah.

One I had always known the name Ida B.

Wells, roughly some of the impact she had, but I did not know that one.

I knew Rosa Parks wasn't the first Rosa Parks.

Right.

So even that.

Um, and like Letitia said, like, truly a badass and just having to have so many enemies.

Right.

Like, there's really no pocket of people that black women could turn to and automatically assume that they had their back, you know, and you always had to kind of still forge your own way, knowing that the people who look like you, racially or gender wise, neither one, were really for you and found ways to kind of bring you down still.

So her forging ahead and still doing what she did, also, one small thing, just like the fact that she was someone who was of a higher class and unlike her peers, was able to still recognize the true need, which is helping those who don't have as much as we do.

Like, that should always be the goal is pulling people who are in more need up.

Yes.

And it's just.

It's so interesting that she grew up in wealth and in some form of wealth, and there are people who probably didn't and escaped it and still turned their back on people who were struggling.

Right.

So I just enjoyed learning more about her.

Yeah.

Lifting as you climb.

Oh, yeah.

For sure.

Katrina.

I love a good documentary.

I think that's why I recommend it.

Yes.

This one.

And I think just at the opening, hearing her described as a ultimate agitator was like, yes, that is exactly how I envision Ida.

Even though we get these very short pockets of information about Ida, we don't often Talk about her as an educator or as an organizer.

And she built these sustaining foundations, thinking about who would be coming after her and what works there was to be done.

Again, like Leticia, I believe a lot of my life mirrors Ida's.

I'm a graduate of Russ College out of Holly Springs, Mississippi.

And so the Ida B.

Wells Barnett Museum was two minutes off campus, walking distance.

And I often drove by as a student at the time at Russ College in mass communications and journalism, and was like, wow, you know, the privilege I get to be here and in close proximity to the history and understanding and knowledge of Ida B.

Wells.

And really finding out that she faced tragedy early on at 16 and again taking care of her siblings while also doing all of these other things that she very much found purpose in.

I just am fascinated about the lives lived before us.

And we think things are difficult now.

They are.

Right.

But at such a time, like being able to be that mobile and to mobilize is just astounding to me.

And so I hope we continue to dig deeper into that today.

Oh, we will for sure.

And Brianna.

So to me, I.

My original.

I cried.

Oh, yeah.

Because it was.

It was a little overwhelming.

I was like, wow, okay.

Heard the name, but I can't really say I knew much of her story.

And I actually watched it like three times because I just needed to do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine.

And it was.

It was absolutely touching because I felt like not also realizing the privilege that I too, may have come from, and then always realizing that I was always told, like, oh, you always root for the underdog.

I felt like that's what she did.

She always had those uncomfortable conversations.

Like, she didn't mean.

She was like, she was adamant about it.

Like, we're going to talk about this.

I'm going to push it.

I seen that within myself.

And then she just kept going.

Regardless of the trauma, regardless of what she constantly kept facing, she continuously pushed on.

And that was just so encouraging, so motivating.

And then it made me like, okay, you know what?

I see where I am in life.

I see how I keep going, but let me look back and see what has been done.

And now I see the importance of doing that and having more information.

And it kind of just.

It's grounding was like, oh, okay, all right.

Because I'm looking for it in the today's community of, okay, who is like that too.

But also understanding, paying that respect to her.

And then I don't know.

So I watched it a couple times.

I loved it.

And, yeah, I definitely cried because I just was like, what?

Yeah, I did.

I did, too.

I didn't know much about.

This is crazy.

Yeah.

No, I.

Yes.

I only knew about her writing about lynching down South.

That's the only thing I really knew about.

I didn't know.

So the thing to me that.

That there's so.

There's so much in this film.

But, like, the thing that stuck out to me the most was.

Well, the two things, really.

One was the fact she was so.

As an educator, she's writing about school segregation and basically writing things against her employer.

And I'm like, that sounds like some stuff I would do.

Like, I'm like, I'm sorry, but y'.

All need to be called out right now.

Yeah, so.

Right, exactly.

So.

So then the.

The other thing is the fact that she co founded the NAACP, but then W.E.B.

Du Bois takes her off.

Talk about the list.

I was like, web, listen, Web.

I'm like, can I cuss.

Yes.

Web ain't.

What is it?

I had read.

We were rooting for you.

We were all rooting for you.

Listen.

With his daughter's lavender marriage.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bri, you.

I read this book called Harlem Rhapsody, and it's like fiction, nonfiction, and it's the story of his mistress, and, you know, how she navigated.

And it gives her a little bit of humanity as well.

Like, she was a prominent writer at the time, but she was definitely full in on being his mistress.

And I just did not like him through that entire book.

So hearing him and hearing this, it was just.

This sounds right.

Every.

Every time I've.

That's probably the third or fourth time I've heard him brought up in a.

In a tale, in a narrative, and it's always on some grimy stuff.

But I'm glad she wasn't against challenging not being on his side all the time, even though she sort of called him, what their grand old man, like, in writing, first of all, like documentaries that use the voices to read the writing.

Like, it sort of brought me into the moment, like, hearing the writing.

But, you know, her saying, I wasn't going to go support this thing, because I don't think he should have accepted that.

Oh, Frederick Douglass.

Another one.

Another.

Which two of them are all the men?

And that's the problem there.

There's too many.

All the men.

Yes.

Okay.

The sexism was rampant.

And it's shown through and through, through each of these men that come through in these stories of these women that we're hearing more and more about.

As we start to shine a light on them, we are getting the truth.

We are getting the.

The truth of the history.

Oh, yeah.

It's like when the sexism was so bad that even Susan B. Anthony called him out to his face, and that was one of the reasons why they stopped being friends.

Because she was like, you don't really like women like that.

You just want men to have a vote.

You don't want women.

Any woman to have a vote before.

You or at all.

He ain't like his wife either.

No.

Well, the first.

The first one that he lived here with.

Yeah, yeah.

Who.

Who basically got him out of.

Right.

She got him out of slavery.

Yes.

Right.

Is like.

Yeah.

There's so much that's not talked about with.

And like.

Yeah.

The power of women.

The power of women.

That could be its own series, Jackie.

It really could.

Yes.

No, I'm for real.

Listen.

Okay, let's talk about it.

And the thing is, is, like, I feel like as I've been kind of, like, doing what you've been doing, Katrina is like, looking back to those who came before us.

And so, like, I was.

I've been doing more, like, looking into the Black Panther Party.

I've been doing more, like, looking into people like Kwame Ture.

And the theme that seem.

I seem to hit every single time is the misogynoir.

And I'm like, y'.

All.

Like, I'm trying to.

Trying to, like, hold y' all to, Like, I'm holding y' all up here.

But then I have to hear something else about y' all saying something or not including women, you know, when we're doing the absolute most, like, in this fight for.

For liberation.

So I. Oh, it's always I'm sitting there, and I'm going, not again, like, with misogynoir.

And like, of course.

Of course I want to get in.

Well, like I said, we're going to dive deeper into many of the different things that were talked about in the film, because, like I said, it's.

It's packed.

Of course.

This is Black August.

We're commemorating black resistance.

And I really was going through and looking at all the.

All of the acts of resistance that are going on.

And, you know, you.

You all had already mentioned a few.

I also want to talk about what it must have been, especially in that time, to not only being a black person, but a black woman who is speaking out against injustice in that time.

Not only.

She's writing about segregation in schools and again, criticizing the Memphis school system.

Power to her.

Like, Also, she's writing about.

She starts writing about lynching when one of her closest friends, along with, I believe it was two other men.

So Thomas Moss, who was the.

Was the owner of a grocery store, a local grocery store.

He's lynched.

So she starts writing about it to make that decision.

And I. I want to get your thoughts about this as well, is like her decision to.

To write about it, but then also the white.

The white backlash that she got, like, I guess, like, as.

As you were watching that, you know, I want to hear from each of you, like, what were your thoughts about.

About that?

Brianna, I'll start with you.

Okay.

So.

Yes, because she ended up.

By the time they made it to her, she was gone.

Yeah, she hadn't left.

Yeah, but I loved it.

I love that she was able to.

Even to do that, to sit here and say it.

And then they took it, reprinted it, made their comp.

I think they reprinted it, right?

Yeah.

It was a white editor who reprinted it.

And.

And then they had their comments on it.

I feel like that's kind of like social media now.

And so, like, that would have been something that went viral, you know, I mean, like.

No, they.

No, she didn't.

And it was so much backlash, but it was more like, how dare you?

How dare you call me out?

How dare you talk about me?

And then they'll say, I'm coming back.

And then you want to go and burn and kill anything that you could get closely, remotely.

So her was like, that just shows the history.

Like it's.

It's there.

It's kind of still repeated in a way.

But that was their response to everything.

There was no, let's have a conversation amongst ourselves about how we can be better, how this, you know.

Right.

Yeah, they were.

Yeah, it was pitchfork and fire.

Ready.

Yeah.

And I'm glad that she was able to leave, though.

Yes.

No, for real, I was.

Yes.

Because I was like, gosh, you know, what does that look like?

Even if you confront that?

But can you really.

I feel like we also don't see stories of a lynch mob happening for women.

Right.

Or seeing that.

We don't.

We haven't heard stories of that being followed through or just like what that looks like.

And that feels like another level of just intensity to think of a black woman, like, being pulled apart by this lynch mob.

Yes.

Always happy.

Good sis got away.

Yes.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You read the story of.

Oh, gosh, what's her name?

Mary.

She was the first church to row, the first black spy.

Oh, gosh It's, It's.

It's gonna bother me to no end.

Mary Bowser.

Thank you.

I literally did a paper on her.

Like, I'm like, it's gonna, it's gonna leave.

But yeah, there's like, definitely go.

And I'll put a link to an article I wrote about her because she's.

Talk about another badass.

I need the movie.

So, you know what?

Never mind.

I will.

I'm going to make the movie.

Say that for real.

Putting in.

I'm manifesting it right now because this, that one was a badass.

But yes, when you're talking about black women, you know, being chased, being being chased after or like that, that sort of backlash happening for black women, we don't, we really don't.

We don't get a whole lot of that.

And so to know that about, again, this, this woman who's speaking out, right.

You know, putting pen to paper, it's getting out there.

And also challenge the, the thing that she's writing that they are angry about is her challenging white people, basically saying, get your people like, like.

And for folks to be, like, mad enough that they're going to go and try to kill this woman.

Yeah.

That's something we don't often hear about.

Katrina or Letitia, if any.

Either of you had additional thoughts.

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh, you can go ahead.

Letitia, you go first.

I went first.

I am.

You know, I decided to buy her book, the Red Record, and it says the truth demands to be heard.

That in itself, right to the duty of the record keeper in the book is called Tabulated statistics in Alleged Cases of Lynching in the United States.

Right.

Where Wells talks about maybe only three white men ever holding formal trial when there had been thousands lynched.

And I think, I often think what would be had the.

Maybe the hope or the.

Or the result of, you know, someone's responsibility and duty, like Ida B.

Wells.

What would be had these things been realized already?

I think one of the most compelling parts was hearing the guy say that, you know, what she wrote about Memphis schools could still be true today.

You could pick up that article and still be true.

And I'm thinking we're still seeing lynchings happen, but in different contexts.

And so, you know, last week we're hearing about Professor Jason Art, our day passing based on a media lynching.

Right.

How do we.

When we go from physical lynching to now digital lynchings, I think it's just bringing up a lot for me in these moments, what that looks like and what it means to continue to hold truth as the ultimate thing that we're seeking.

And then how do we repair that?

What is the result then, of shining light on truth?

And for Wells, unfortunately, it resulted in losing everything.

But you don't hear about her losing everything and losing the cause.

It's.

Let me pick my stuff up, start over, and pass out these pamphlets now in this.

What was it, Chicago that she went to.

To the World's Fair.

Now I'm here with pamphlets.

I don't even have anything right.

But I have pamphlets now to hand out to people.

Yeah, there's more about that I want to say, but I'll stop there.

Letitia, how about you?

Oh, my goodness.

And at that time, those white people did not want to hear that.

The pushback, the toxicity, the anger.

And you have to stand there and tell them to the face.

It's y'.

All.

Yeah.

You know,.

I had to write a whole paper to tell white people that people are pole because they got no money, because you ain't paying them because they're black.

And so when she is facing that.

That moment, that white man bro, that I was like, oh, no, girlfriend run.

And she did.

Yeah.

You know, and there's power in that.

You know, a lot of times we tell folk, no, you gotta stay.

You gotta face them.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to dip.

Come on and find your power, and then you can still make a difference.

Right, Right.

Just in a different way.

The strategy got to change.

You know, don't stay in that toxic situation at the risk of your own.

Life.

When you can still make a difference and have that impact and still have yourself be whole.

That was the lesson that I learned.

Wow.

Is there.

Is there a link to that report, Leticia?

Yes, there is.

Okay.

On the city of Rochester.

Okay.

I'm gonna have to grab it and put it in our show notes as well, so folks can take a look.

I'm also curious myself to see, because I'm like, I don't know if I had seen that one before.

I mean, I'm like, I believe.

I believe all of it.

But, yeah, to see.

Just to see kind of like the breakdown and how you.

How you break it down for folks.

Yeah, I will definitely get that.

Read it and also put it in the show notes for people, because people.

Surprise, surprise.

The other thing that I wanted to talk about in terms of many, many, many themes of resistance in this film and from Ida B.

Wells was we're going to get a little bit into elitism, which could be, again, its own series.

But Ida founded the Negro Fellowship League, geared towards helping young black men who fell subject to.

To the stroll when black elites wouldn't.

And so for those of you who, number one, go watch the.

The film.

But also.

So in the film, they talk about the stroll.

So there was the Chicago's black belt, which was the neighborhood where most black folks lived, because otherwise, you know, white populations were not letting them live anywhere else but this strip.

And so the stroll was this.

I think it was like, what was.

Like a block or a few blocks to 33rd.

Oh, there you go.

Something like that.

Yes.

So a few blocks where it was like.

It was what, like nightclubs?

It was lit.

Yes.

Okay.

Come out in your gowns.

Right.

Beautiful gowns.

Come out in your.

But they said.

But you would be promenading.

I said, you know, we used to promenade, too.

We want to be singing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the threads.

Right.

And so they said the folks would be up and down.

You can see.

Yeah.

What you were wearing.

Engage.

Interacts with the people in the black metropolitan.

Yes.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

It was Black Metropolis.

Metropolis referred to as.

And so.

But young black men who got deep into gambling and drinking and all of that, she would.

She would hold, like.

Like, basically like Sunday school for them and.

But within what it was like Bible class.

But what it ended up turning into was just her, like, sort of like counseling them through, you know, the difficult time that they were having.

And so she founded this Negro Fellowship League.

And so when she asks.

Or I don't know if it's because I don't know if it.

She.

She asked folks or it was just black elites telling her not to bother, like, with them and because none of them would also support.

I also wanted to know, like, how y' all felt about that too, because I'm sitting here and I'm going.

Do y' all not see what's going on, like, like, around us?

Like, I.

But again, I'm like, oh, there, there is that again, this could be a whole series.

Just there's this division, like, with it within our own community, like this.

There's, you know, these different classes.

And so folks, like, using either wealth or using educational status.

Right.

To kind of like, talk down to.

Or complete, like, completely neglect, like, those who are in need I wanted to get your thoughts about that.

Letitia, I can start with you.

Take the Real Housewives of Potomac, you know, because there's that elitism, and being from Louisiana, especially from New Orleans, we have it there, too.

And it's so.

It gives me the ick.

Because there was a specific line in the documentary where they said that they were attaching themselves to white people.

And then I think of our current time, listen, with leopards eating my face,.

Right?

Talk about it.

Those were the people who would be like, oh, but the leopard's not gonna get me, right?

And would not even recognize where they came from.

You know, this.

You have all this money and this wealth, and you see your people struggle and you don't want to help means that the sickness is deep in you.

That whiteness, you know, that's where that line, you know, not all skin folk, right.

Is Kinfo.

And I had to learn that because she comes from money, so she had this expectation in her mind, oh, they're just gonna be like me.

And.

No, no, no, no, no.

And that's where that W.E.B.

Du Bois comes in for me, too, because he was almost like a eugenicist and wanting to have that talented tenth.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And that's that black elite that they were trying to aspire and to be in and that.

That kind of club.

And that's why he is the way he is, right?

Because of that mindset.

Right.

Brie, you started to touch on this as well earlier, too.

Did you want to give additional thoughts?

Yeah, I just, you know, it's f. F him all day.

I just.

And I can't get past that.

But I think my thing with.

It's just black women had no one to turn to.

Right.

No matter what their counterpart, whether it was by race or by gender, no matter what, their counterparts held more privilege than them.

Whereas, you know, men still had power over women, and white women still had power over black men, even if it wasn't over black white men.

And you just have black women over here struggling to find a foothold and kind of having a crab in a barrel mentality, no matter where you go in your community.

And I'm sorry, I had such a brain fart, and I had such a conversation like, I had such a brain fart just now.

It's all good, but they're just the only demographic that I think has to face it from both ends and him choosing.

I think we often see black women exerting so much labor and getting no output, getting no recognition for that and being there to do the footwork and then.

But when it's time for the recognition, that's no longer there.

Yep.

You know, and the elitism.

I.

It's.

She was able to look past.

I think it was also the fact that she grew up with this, and it's what her parents bestowed in her.

Something.

On the way here, I listened to a graphic novel about her because I was like, just.

Just getting in the mood.

Seeing what Spotify had.

Yeah.

And learned that her father opened Shaw University, an HBCU in the country.

Oh, I didn't know.

Well, so Russ College used to be called Shaw.

Oh, gotcha.

So we were Shaw, and then we became Russ College.

There we go.

And we make full circle.

But, like, you know, that to have someone to open that kind of space.

And she was at such a certain level and still was able to see the bigger picture.

But I think people like W.E.B.

Du Bois or folks who don't grow up within that realm, they saw themselves pulling, getting.

I feel like they have the ultimate bootstrap mentality because they did it and they did live during times we're not far removed from slavery.

They did do it when it was what not.

So why can't others?

And really that empathy gets lost.

But, I mean, even our black elite today.

Right.

The black excellence, it very much excludes people who don't look a certain way, who don't have the right job.

And we still see the respectability politics that's woven through all of it, which is very alive and well in.

Even in our HBCUs today.

So I feel like that was the.

Exactly all of that.

It was like what I'm living currently.

Like, talk about it.

I got to.

I got to experience all sorts of, like, upbringings.

I went to a city school for a very brief moment, and then I went to a private school.

Then I lived out in Bloomfield.

I went to school.

They were the only black family.

Then I graduated from Westeround Equity.

I started college at Roberts Wesleyan, and then I left and went to an hbcu.

Bethune Cookman University, where I graduated.

That was like a culture shock to me.

I was so excited.

I was like, I love it here.

All these black people.

This is beautiful.

Because that's not what I was constantly brought around.

So I didn't always understand it.

Like, I was always shoulder to shoulder with white people.

It was.

It was normal.

It was.

It was different.

But then as I became more of an adult, became a parent, life started to.

Life.

Yeah, my.

My upbringing wasn't.

Isn't reflected to My children's.

So I started to have different struggles that I didn't necessarily experience as a child myself, but as becoming a single mom, I started to experience a lot of different things.

So then I'm like, okay, I have the education, but I'm struggling.

And then you guys are.

I started to reach out to some of the people where elitism, where I'm like, hey, this is what it is.

And they're like, yeah, maybe they didn't experience it or they did, but it was so far gone from where they're living currently that they didn't have the.

The words or the compassion or the empathy to be able to help me in those like this, in this moment, situations where that became a little conflicting and different.

So seeing her still, like, reaching out to the men, and even sometimes, too, where men may not always be the strongest suit or the best support necessarily, she still was lending, you know, her.

What was it?

Her white.

Her white gloves.

She still was like, hey, I'll help you.

I'm willing to be that.

And I see that within myself where it didn't matter who what went.

Aware it feels like I'm struggling.

I might be drowning in whatever I'm dealing with, but it was something I'm able to do or be for someone else.

It was nothing.

Now I'm also learning the boundaries part so that I understand the unhealthy component of that, but I. I see where that was, so I just thought that was so beautiful.

But I do understand it, and it gives a more.

A better understanding of why, like, I'm not gonna shame my family.

I love y'.

All.

Yeah, okay.

But I do understand, you know, I mean, where it comes when people just not necessarily shame them always.

But I do see where it's just like, look, if I did it, you can do it.

Yeah, Yeah.

I think it's part of that.

And everyone doesn't want to support that.

Everyone.

And they're like, look, I am doing it, so I'm not even going to look back to help.

So, you know, kudos.

And that's what I was saying, where she still felt like she was rooting for the underdogs.

And that's what I, like, really appreciated from this.

It was them latching on to whiteness as well, and latching on to the rich white folk, you know, and feeling like.

And that's where the respectability politics come away as well.

Where it's like, if you don't associate yourself with this level, they'll think you're the good black.

Right.

You Know, So just like, the white women didn't want to march with them because the Southern white women didn't want it.

Right.

So it's just them thinking they distanced themselves.

It's gonna work.

But you're still black.

Right, Right, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was gonna say, for me, it's.

I like that someone described her.

It was Nicole Hannah Jones saying that she wrote with rage in a way to inform and to shame, and that she didn't.

She wasn't scared to stand 10 toes and say, we should have this event at the black theater.

Right.

That ball.

Or that.

Yeah.

The donation ball that she was having.

Or the fun with.

Yeah.

The charity.

And saying, like, why not hold it in our own space where we won't have restrictions on our seating?

Like, you all rather be so in proximity to whiteness that you still aren't getting the fullness of what you're probably.

Of what you're owed, of just existing, being a human.

And so I've never understood that as someone that is maybe a bit more educated.

I relate to Ida because she.

They talked about her using plain language as well.

Like, why say something with two, you know, if I can write.

She said, if I can write something in one syllable as opposed to two, then that's how I'm going to write it.

And I see my work as a scholar aligning with that.

Right.

Accessible.

And I think to some degree, a lot of times you'll see these people writing about their communities, but in such a way where the community can't even read what it is you're saying they don't understand, you know, how are they grasping or utilizing your work?

Right.

What.

What practice is being put into, you know, after we've read your work.

Okay, now what do we do, you know, with this or, you know, and that.

She saw a place, what they would call the ordinary woman to be involved in resistance, to be involved in the fight against, you know, whatever it is that she had going on, which is, you know.

Yeah, just see that lens and that being a citizen, being in community with the actual community.

That's how I see that.

And I'm by myself.

I am in the community.

I'm with the people, you know, and that's how you have to do.

Community is going with where the people are.

Yes.

I.

Especially in, like, a time, Katrina, when you were talking about writing in a way, you know, even with being like, this educated person, like, writing it in a way where folks will be able to understand it.

And I feel like.

Like translating that into today.

With all of the conversation around literacy and what that means, not just being able to read the words, but also to comprehend them.

And you know, I mean the way in which like, like school curricula is set up, the way that, you know, social media is here and you have people with less attention spans and like all these different things, I feel like writing in a way where folks don't understand it is like number one, it's almost as if like you're trying to, you're trying to signal to everyone that, you know, you're educated, you're kind of like holding that over people rather than helping people to understand what it is that you're talking about.

You have to make it plain to people.

And especially when we're talking about, you know, we're talking about politics, we were talking about, you know, organizing when folks are talking about mutual aid, like, like meeting people where they are.

And I feel like there was very much what Ida was doing.

And also understanding like, you know, at the end of the day there may be like, you know, wealth or education that sort of like puts us into these like, different brackets to like break those and to be someone's like, no, like we're.

I, I'm black, you're black.

Like we, we all have to eat, we all have to, you know, it, it's again, yeah, being part of community.

And I think again, like I said, taking it to modern day understanding, like where we're at right now, especially given the literacy crisis that we're, that we're in right now, is like using whatever privilege, whether that's wealth, whether that's education.

Right.

And helping us all out.

I also want to talk.

So as, as, as I was watching the film too, you know, these, these, these other things, like Ida telling her black readers, you know, to arm themselves was very, I don't know, it's.

What do you think that would be considered progressive in that time?

I mean, given like what they were facing, it would make sense.

But like now I feel like it's the way in which like folks talk about it, I feel like is something that you don't often hear from folks who are like, you hear from folks that are more kind of like leftist or radical.

I feel like it's more of that progressive sort of thing.

But I don't know, I could be wrong.

I think back then it's not radical because they're coming at you with worse.

Right, right.

And their intention is fully to kill you.

And protecting yourself should always be number one.

Right.

And I love that.

I Just said that I feel like I hadn't heard someone so blatantly call for.

For taking up arms when reading about accounts from that time.

Like, I.

So I was just.

I think that was like, once again, her just being brave and not being afraid to say, this is what you need to do.

Even when her.

She's having to tell them, you need to move, you know, and.

And it's scary, but you can do it.

And it's definitely radical for like, now.

Well, I don't know.

I have not heard anyone say anything.

She.

And she not only said.

She not only said that people listened.

Right.

That was the thing that also hit me.

Like, she.

Because I was like, okay, but how many people are going to actually.

She's like, no.

Then they said in the film, no.

People actually followed and moved.

Right.

And I was like, oh, my God.

Well, I think there was an investment in collective resistance.

And I think right now there's so many pockets, and no one trusts anyone.

No one trusts that there's anyone to follow, to listen to.

So everyone's listening to themselves.

And the next person that doesn't know anything or.

And so I'm so.

For the arms, because I think it's problematic, especially at that time, to consider anyone disruptive for combating violence with the particular kinds of violence that they were facing with violence.

To call that disruptive is.

You know, we'd still be there if these folks did not take up arms, if they did not literally fight.

I don't think we have a vision, an understanding of what it was like to actually have to fight.

And the fact that folks can mobilize without technology and we are strong, struggling to mobilize with the things at our fingertips.

The immediacy of calling on our people and they don't come is always striking to me.

Yeah.

Just like you could form a lynch mob in a number of moments, you know, how we gathered.

And resistance to that.

But yet it's hard to get folks.

It's pulling teeth these days.

But, yeah.

Yeah.

Leticia, any.

Any thoughts about any of.

I'm reminded of my grandmother who had a gun by her door, and my cousin when I lived in Philly, his advice to me was, you need a blade.

And he made me one.

And so I always carry something to protect myself, because that is the history of my family.

Yeah, I'm gonna fight.

There is none of this, you know, like, oh, be nice.

It's like, no, these people are trying to hurt you.

Right.

And you're gonna go down fighting.

That is the mentality so we don't.

See that a lot.

And then when we do, it is framed as being violent.

Yes.

More violent than the violence that is being put on us.

And then we have, like, it's reactionary abuse.

Like, what is that?

It's not abuse.

Right.

You know, like, just like reverse racism.

Exactly.

And so we have such a.

Especially, like, people on the left who are so very much like, oh, my God, I'm scared of guns.

Etc.

And, yes, they have devastated our community.

How?

Forever.

It's something different when you're pushing back against a larger system and ideology who are embodied by a group of people who want to enact harm on you.

Right,.

Absolutely.

Okay.

So I.

Before we.

Before we move on, I also just wanted to say a quick thing about resistance also being.

I think there's a famous quote and I'm going to butcher it, so I'm not going to say it, but, like, it's basically James Baldwin talking about love and that being.

That also being.

Again, it's not exactly what he said, but it was.

Of course, I'll think about the quote after the fact.

But, you know, about resistance and.

And the greatest thing, you know, being.

Being love.

And I just want to really.

Just talk real quick about Ida's husband.

Yes.

Come to me first.

Listen, listen.

Her husband.

Can I have one?

I'm sorry?

Can I have one?

Right, exactly.

Where's more?

Ferdinand.

Yeah.

So her husband being someone who, like, first of all.

And I loved how they pointed out that he loved strong black women.

And I was just like, okay, okay, sir.

So his wife was one, too.

Yes.

And then him, like, getting.

First of all, him getting or hiring, like, a nanny to look after the kids, that she could continue, like, her career.

I'm like, I can't.

He saw her as an individual.

Yes, yes.

Which is just so shocking for us all.

You know, I was like, why am I so shocked about this?

Like, why am I so surprised?

Yeah.

No, Katrina, you have more to say.

I just took note and was like, listen, 10 years older.

Okay.

If I decide to go back in the market.

Ferdinand.

With 10 years older, like you said, he likes strong women.

Yes.

And he had the means to support the cause and wanted to.

And they went on this sort of crusade of activism together.

And I just thought that is, you know, as a single black woman that considers myself.

I don't wanna.

I wouldn't say strong per se.

Cause I don't always like to gravitate toward that and what that means or having to be that.

But, you know, someone that's Headstrong in a lot of ways.

Right.

Sort of determined, confident.

Understand these things about myself too.

See, other women receive that and get that who are similar to me because, you know, sometimes in my own, you know, just perspective, I'm like, ain't none left.

Right?

Okay.

Y' all scooped them up and I'm so happy for y'.

All.

Please scoop up the ones that are eligible in that and that can do these things that Ferdinand was doing.

But I'm like, take note from Ida when y' all say badass, badass all the way around, you know, and found a way to be loved through what she had to do, you know, And.

And that also propelled and held as a backbone to her success.

And.

And I say success because to me, she's a success.

Right.

We're still talking.

Right.

And we're going to keep talking about Ida.

So.

Yeah.

And she also ended up taking over his paper.

Yeah.

I was like, okay, that's what I'm talking about.

Right.

She came to like, came the editor of the conservator.

And I'm just like, that was his paper.

Okay, cool.

That's great.

I love it.

We love to see it.

It's hers now.

Yes, it's hers now.

It's mine's now.

I just like that motherhood also wasn't seen as something she had to do.

Oh, yeah.

And her loss in it was considered, like, we don't talk enough about what pregnancy takes from you, about what having to give your life at all up to motherhood takes from you.

I helped raise my little niece and nephews and I said that was enough.

Ok.

So I just.

We don't talk nearly enough about the sacrifice femmes women make every single day when they get pregnant and are willing to birth these.

These children.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

And because we believe in, you know, surface level questions only here on Rose.

Yeah, I know.

I'm going to hit you with.

Yeah, there it is.

Yep, there it is.

I am going to ask this because, well, I really do want to hear your answers, actually.

So in.

I was like, I actually have two here, but I'm gonna.

I'm just gonna ask the one because like, we.

It's.

I, you know, I did a thing and I asked two really heavy questions and I'm like, you know what?

Let me just leave the one.

So there's the line of the film that I want us to sit with and reflect on.

So.

Pulitzer winner, prize winner, New York Times writer and author of the book 16.

Hannah, Nicole Jones says this.

Or is it Nicole, Hannah.

Did I just mess that up?

Nicole.

Hannah Jones.

Oh, my goodness gracious.

So sorry.

Okay, okay.

She said.

She says the strength of black women always comes at a cost.

What immediately springs up for you when hearing that.

Yeah.

And whoever wants to answer first is the cost yourself.

Like you are.

Because usually people are like, oh, you stayed strong while I did some up.

Thanks.

Right.

Yeah.

You know, I see it a lot when maybe someone goes to jail or they have a.

They have a second family and you forget about, like, just weird stuff.

Right.

And they bring up this strength that it's like.

But.

But people shouldn't have to go through the most traumatizing thing ever and then stay with that person and act like it never happened.

Because your psyche will always remember that they betrayed you that way.

It will.

You'll never forget that.

And sometimes I don't think it's strength, but codependency.

A lot of times you push through and you're like, this is who I have to stay with.

Or if it's from that frame.

For context, it was after.

So she had to close.

She had to close the.

The.

The Negro Fellowship League that she had founded for the young black men.

She didn't have the funds.

She didn't have the funds.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And.

Right.

So her strength, she shouldn't have had to be so strong.

Right, Right.

Like she should have been able to depend on her community.

Right.

And for people to be.

Because it wasn't that there weren't more of her.

It wasn't that there weren't more change makers and people who can make some moves they just didn't want to.

Right.

Yeah.

Exhausted by strength.

Yeah.

Is really where that was.

Yeah.

That's what I took from it.

Like.

Yeah.

You know what?

I'm doing a lot, but I'm exhausted by being so strong.

Everyone wants to identify you as being.

Such a strong person.

Yeah.

I think your vulnerability, sometimes you lose.

You lose a bit of that.

Or people thinking you need the help because you're strong.

So I think sometimes you're left to pick up the pieces and figure things out on your own because to some degree, people know that you can because you've shown that you can and you do time and time again.

So, again, thinking about her losing everything in one place.

And I mean, literally burned to the ground.

Right.

Yes.

Losing everything.

Yeah.

And what cost that takes.

I think a lot of times when we're.

I'm starting to write about refusal a Bit more, particularly in academia, but more so.

We're writing about the hope of refusal, what we gain.

But I don't think we've taken enough time to talk about what we lose.

And so I like this question, and I think I'm going to sit with that and something to consider in the next thing that I'm writing.

Right.

We talk about because it's important to think about what's on the other side of refusing and talking about it from that way, but thinking about, yeah, what do you lose when you don't?

And I just think to some degree, people that came before us did not have a choice.

It just got put on some people.

It was on her to do this.

It was in her to do it.

And there are certain people that it's on and it's in.

And sometimes.

And then we have to see how they, you know, navigate.

But, yeah, I think you can lose a lot.

I think your vulnerability is one of them.

Leticia, how about you?

I recently had a discussion on how I lost my health by being strong.

And I've had multiple surgeries to deal in an inaccessible world.

And I have had to.

Had surgery to be able to exist in an inaccessible world.

Like, I've intentionally changed my body because the world is not accessible to me.

And when we talk about the realm of black disabled people who are often so invisible and you have to, because you've got white folk over here being racist, but your community doesn't know how to show up because of internalized ableism.

And so you got to.

Because you have no choice.

But the cost is our bodies.

And who.

Seeing those photos of her, it aged her in a way that you could see.

She's tired.

Yes.

You know, like it.

It's that.

What's that word?

Weathering.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

My God, she was doing that because who was stepping up for her?

She did have other relationships with other black women in the suffragist movement.

An older black woman that was very kind of contentious, but with a lot of love and respect.

They just didn't understand each other until much later in their lives where they were like, oh, I get it now.

I see where you're coming from.

We need more of that.

I don't want to call it sisterhood, but stuff like this, I'm glad there ain't no man.

Things happen how they supposed to.

Yes.

Right.

Because we need that time to center ourselves and just be.

Yes.

And that's what sometimes being strong means, that you are a human doing, not a human being.

And we have to focus on being human beings.

Say that one more time because I.

Think where are the horns for that?

For real.

Wow.

A human doing.

Agreed.

In the weathering.

Thank you for bringing that up again and reminding me of.

Of that term and what that looks like.

I know we're talking about women right now.

Right.

Center us.

But I just saw that with Barack Obama.

That man got weathered.

He did.

Barack Obama.

You could see it, Michelle, you know what I'm saying?

Coming out on the other side of that, looking phenomenal.

Building up a shield against that.

Right.

Yeah.

No, thank you for bringing that back into the conversation because it's very real and I think a lot of us are experiencing it but don't know how.

To put a word to it.

And we're not understanding it's happening to the women around us as well.

Yeah, for sure.

Also to add, I feel like people act like being strong when.

When they throw that out there.

That being strong in that moment was a choice.

It was not.

Yes.

For them.

It's not really a.

You did what you had to do because.

Yeah, like, her siblings wouldn't have ate if she didn't.

Like, she would not have.

People wouldn't have known about the lynchings that are happening if she just didn't.

What she did what she had to.

Do, they would have been sold.

Right.

Yeah.

So, like, that strength was just something she had to do.

It wasn't her saying, okay, I have to be strong.

She did what she had to do.

So much could be discussed.

I'm like this so much.

There are so many.

Like, sometimes with that statement, I can resent it where it's like, yes, but no, I resent that.

I don't.

Yeah, I like to be the strong one, but I don't want to carry that.

I don't want to navigate everything that that costs to be that.

Even if I show up as it.

Sometimes it costs too much.

Yeah, it does cost.

That's why dipping okay.

And not picking the cause back up can also be.

Yes, a strategy.

It can also be your saving grace.

It can also be your.

And Letitia said that earlier, like, sometimes you just have to dip and then change things up.

For Ida, it was getting back into the fight in some way.

I'm going to write these parts pamphlets now.

I don't have this newspaper, but there's something I can do in this way.

And I think it helped preserve her for some time.

To be able to shift and pivot.

I think more of us need to just dip and pivot.

And we are I saw something earlier.

You know, we're.

We're dipping and pivoting from different spaces and in different ways.

And about.

Of these jobs for a lot of women, it's about.

Of these jobs and relationships that don't.

Serve right for sure.

So, yeah, some of us are making the right moves in our talk.

And like you said, let's just.

The more these conversations are needed.

Oh, yes.

This is one of the reasons why I do the podcast.

So before we wrap, I wanted.

We always ask a representation question because of course, this is representation in cinema.

So what black women in our history need their own documentary or live action film?

I want to start with this Bri.

Right over here.

Oh, darn it.

I'm thinking I can come back if you need.

You know what?

No action film one.

I want to see a Harriet Tubman action film.

We.

Not the one we got.

It's not an act.

Yes,.

Thanks, Prince.

You mean the one with Cynthia Revolt.

No.

Hey, hold on.

Cynthia Erivo has had Chevy hate, like, what past comments come up about African Americans.

So her displaying someone who is an African American bothered me.

And for her to be Harriet Tubman.

Okay, so I.

But still, it ain't an action movie.

I'm talking about.

She had to punch babies.

She had to punch.

Yes, she did.

You know, she had to leave certain people behind, like being more in depth about the different terrors that she.

Cause it was.

I still think we're getting watered down versions of what she really dealt with and how much of a badass she was, like, really going into her espionage and what she did after.

Yeah, we didn't get that.

No.

And we could get a little bit.

What is it?

Bob the Drag Queen has.

Oh my gosh.

His novel.

And it's so good just to envision them living in this time period at all and how they would react to things and how they would perceive things.

And we definitely.

Even though I. I'm cool with no more.

Not as many slave narratives.

But this is not a slave narrative.

This is Harriet.

This is done.

And who she became.

And even if we do a little historical non.

Like historical fiction.

That's why I would be down to see her kick some ass.

Yes.

Because she would.

Yeah.

Katrina, I just like your description of this.

And I'm looking like, when is this available?

I can see this.

I would love to see a movie on Toni Stone.

I have a bobblehead of her back at the house.

But Toni Stone was an American baseball player who was the first woman to play in the Negro leagues for the Indianapolis Clowns.

I am from Indianapolis.

She played second base, I believe this was in about 19.

But, you know, they talk about her teammates taunting her, which were all men, you know, before two of the other two other ladies made it to the team as well.

Maybe Johnson, I think Connie something.

I forget.

But, yeah, they were telling her, go home and make biscuits for your husband.

You know, and so what it's like navigating sports as a woman.

And because, you know, because, you know, when the men went off to war and there's a small bit of this in A League of Their Own, is.

That the woman who throws?

I don't think it was meaning to be her, but it was an example of how black women could also play, but they weren't allowed to play.

They weren't, you know, and so we do get black women that played in the Negro leagues.

And people don't know that I wrote.

Cause I remember seeing that as A League of Their Own will always have a special place in my heart.

Oh, mine too.

It is a top film of mine.

When I was watching it growing up, I always wondered about the black woman.

Who threw that ball back.

And I'm like, wait, I want her story.

It's like, I want to know where does.

Does she get to play at some point.

Right.

And when the character Dottie catches it, it, like, stings her hand.

Because the woman had an arm.

Yeah.

It's like the found.

She picks it up and it's like, sh.

She's like, sheesh.

And the black woman sort of gives her this look like, yeah, you know, what's up?

You know, what's up, girl?

So I would love to see a film on Toni Stone.

They do plays.

There were plays, and I think they do them in Indianapolis.

Missed all of them.

But I know, right?

I know.

So.

But yeah, Brianna.

But I wait for your spy.

Okay.

Mary.

Yeah.

Mary Bowser, for sure.

Yes.

Leticia, how about you?

I would love to see the story of Eliza Suggs.

Okay.

She had osteogenesis imperfecta and was born a slave.

Wow.

And went on to become an educator and a leader.

I think we need more disabled black stories being told, because even with Harriet Tubman.

Right.

Her disability is race.

You know, she's out here with epilepsy and a gun.

Right.

And.

And freeing people.

Right.

I think that's badass and why it keeps being erased.

It's just so irritating for me.

So, yeah.

Eliza sucks is one of Those that I remember learning about when I research as a child.

And I was like, oh, how do you survive slavery with osteogenesis and perfecta.

Yeah.

Which is called brittle bone disease.

So just that story of thriving.

Yeah.

In a time where disability was seen as punishment.

Right.

Because they would punish you by disabling you or call me crazy because you want to be free.

You know, you get it both ways.

So seeing those types of stories would be helpful.

Yeah.

Okay, y'.

All.

No, no, I really, of course, as always, I. I can usually go for so much longer.

But of course, y' all will just have to come back to the podcast and at least a couple of you will be back for our Candyman episode.

So get ready for that.

So I really appreciate all of you.

Thank you so much for joining the podcast tonight.

Listeners will have information.

Oh, and actually, I didn't even ask this.

I always, lately I've been forgetting to ask this.

How can folks support each and every one of y'?

All?

Leticia, we'll just do a rapid fire thing where folks can find you and how they can support you.

All the things.

Letitia, I'll start with you.

I'm on Instagram Freedom of Movement 35 and by the Anthology.

Yes, I think it's pretty cool.

You can hear more stories from disabled.

Black one.

Awesome.

We'll have that in the show notes for folks.

We'll have all of this information in the show notes for people.

All right, Bri, real quick.

Yes, that bri on Instagram.

All right.

Dr. Erscore ko_08 on Instagram.

Also, feel free to download any of my articles that can be found on Google, Google Scholar, Katrina overby and my YouTube spin doctor Ko Media.

All right, and mine will be follow the lens, but it's F o L L W T H E L L E N S. So it's missing that second O.

So yep, that's how you can find me on Instagram and as well as YouTube.

Perfect.

Okay.

And like I said before, so we will have that information about each and every one of our guests in the show notes or in the description below.

Of course, if you're watching on YouTube, wherever you're listening from, make sure you hit that subscribe subscribe button.

Give us a five star rating and share this episode and leave a comment.

Let us know what you thought of tonight's episode.

Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, tik tok threads, all the things.

You can also visit our voices Project dot com.

Sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do.

We'll be back with more episodes continuing our Black August series, including Attica, which you can actually watch right now on YouTube, and Candyman, which you can either rent online or borrow from your local library.

Before tuning in to our next episodes, this has been Jackie McGriff, your host for this episode of Representation in Cinema.

As always, thank you again for listening.

This has been a presentation of the Lunch Podcast Network.

Even after I put raw meat all over my body, cut off their food, went into their space, and then taunted them about their spots, I never thought the leopards would eat my face.

Wait, that's from the.

Yeah.

Wait, wait, I just.

I just wrote that.

Wait, you just wrote.

I thought you were taking from.

There's a.

There's a black creator.

Francesca.

Francesca, yes.

Who wrote this song about leopards.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought you were taking from that.