As a pet groomer, you’re brilliant at looking after dogs. But are you looking after your own finances just as well?

In this episode, Bill sits down with Romany Youell – also known as The Finance Woman – to talk about something many grooming business owners avoid… money.

If you’re self-employed or running a salon, your income depends on you. So what would happen if you couldn’t work? Would your business survive? Would you?

Romany shares clear, practical advice on:

1. Why financial literacy matters for pet professionals
2. What income protection actually is (and why most groomers misunderstand it)
3. The difference between being busy and being financially secure
4. Why pensions and investments shouldn’t be “something to sort later”
5. The types of insurance business owners should genuinely consider

One of the biggest takeaways? Many groomers prioritise their clients, staff and salon expenses – but forget to protect themselves.

This episode isn’t about complicated financial jargon. It’s about helping you feel more confident, more informed and more in control of your future.

If you work for yourself, this conversation could genuinely change how you think about money in your grooming business.

As always, I'd like to thank the podcast sponsor, Lopay, the low-cost payment platform that helps you keep more of the money you earn.

You can find out more and sign up for Lopay here:

https://merchant.lopay.app/ref/PETPASSION2500

Listeners of this podcast get £2500 of fee-free transactions.

And of course, if you feel like you could benefit from Bill's business programmes for the Pet Grooming industry, visit:

https://petpassiontoprofit.com/

If you found this episode helpful, make sure you subscribe, leave a review and share it with another groomer who needs to hear it.

Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the low rate payment app that gives you more.

So without further ado, let's get going.

Right, welcome.

Welcome back, everyone.

Welcome to the next episode.

And today we are talking finances with Romney.

Welcome.

How are you?

Hi.

I'm good, thank you.

How are you?

Yeah, very good, Very good.

So maybe so we could start off with just give a little introduction of yourself, who you are, where you're from and the business that you have.

Yeah, of course.

So my name is Romane.

I'm a financial advisor, also known as the finance woman.

And I've been in the industry, I think about eight years now.

And I'm definitely not your traditional financial advisor and not what a lot of people expect when I come on a zoom call.

And the reason for that is I'm a lot younger than the average advisor.

Most advisors are in their 50s and I'm in my 20s, so I'm a bit of an anomaly.

But I started as a financial advisor at age 18.

I've been in the industry since 16 as well.

But when I qualified, I was the UK's youngest ever financial advisor.

So you could say that I saw things from quite a fresh perspective.

And I think the industry is quite outdated, a little bit boring, like we said, and it just needs modernizing and I think people need a lot more help with the finances than what they're able to get.

Especially kind of smaller business owners and pet professionals as well.

We work with over 50 accountants now all over the UK who trust us to support their clients as well, which we don't take lightly.

And we've helped hundreds of business owners kind of in the last couple of of years and things have just grown exponentially since then.

And I absolutely love what I do.

The basically the main aim for us is to help people feel more confident, more in control of their finances from things like pensions.

Again, that's one of the areas that people tend to avoid, but also protection as well, and just making everything as tax efficient and just as simple as possible as well.

Excellent.

Yeah, I've got a question here, actually.

Were you like recognized as the youngest financial advisor?

Was there any like Guinness Book of Records or anything like that, recognition for it?

Not quite.

I was in a few papers and things like that.

And people still talk about it a little bit, but yeah, it was one of them things that you can only really talk about it for that year.

And then after that.

But I'll keep talking about it forever.

What got you into it, like 16?

I mean, you always, like, grow up thinking about money and investing.

Were you a good saver as a kid?

Did you have, like, penny jars and, like, save all your money?

Well, to be honest with you, I was.

I've been in client meetings since I was 11 years old, which sounds a little bit wild when you say it like that, but I grew around my dad and he had a mortgage advice business which he established and built from the ground up.

And he really, really inspired me doing that.

And I just used to love going along to his client meetings.

I always used to get biscuits and sweets and stuff like that.

That was the main reason.

But I also saw the way that it changed people's lives.

And, you know, we're just from Yorkshire, we're just normal people, we're not one of these big corporate firms or anything like that.

And I just saw the relationships that he had with his clients and it was just.

It was life changing to watch that.

And obviously I experienced the power of being quite financially literate from a very young age as well.

You know, we'd be having tea and talking about income protection and life insurance and all these different things.

And, you know, my dad's quite ambitious with business and stuff like that, so it's definitely given me that drive from him.

But that's why I'm so passionate about what I do.

I think people need to be talking about money so much more.

Um, and then, yeah, so I decided to do mortgages, which I did for two years.

I really enjoyed that.

But I know it's quite a big gap for kind of pensions and things.

Obviously there was nobody that could look after that within the business, so I decided to just go and do it.

Don't think about it, just do it.

And like I said, it's.

It's quite a rare thing for such a young person to go.

So I was 17, went to apply for the financial advisor college and they said, well, you're too young, basically, you need to be 18 years old.

So I did the whole interview process to give me a chance, basically, and they could not believe how much knowledge I had at age 17, the fact that I knew about income protection and all these different technical things.

And they let me on.

Next day I got a call and they said, you're going to be the UK's youngest ever financial advisor.

And the rest is history.

Nice.

Nice.

I bet.

I bet when you go down the pub with your mates or you go to restaurants.

Like, I bet the conversation always turns to like, what should I invest in?

What should I do with this?

What, Tell me about a pension.

It's been like being a doctor, I'll be like, when I was being the police, it was like, oh, what happens in this circumstances and that sort of stuff.

100%.

Yeah.

Because it's one of those areas that people don't really know too much about or it's a little bit confusing.

So, yeah, if I can, if I can help anyone, then I'll, I'll talk about it anymore.

I have to stop, man.

And I think sort of working with my clients and, and getting to know groomers, but people in general and going on my own sort of development journey.

I had a big issue throughout most of my life around maths and how I was taught maths and the barriers that, that built when I was at school and stuff like that.

And I see it quite a lot.

You know, I don't want to do my tax return.

I turn off from my bank account, I don't look at my banking apps, I don't look at my phone finances and tax really freaks me out in numbers, you know, And I think there's, there's a real barrier here, isn't there, around education?

I mean, I just wanted to reassure, obviously, you, you went to college at 17, so you, you have got maths degree.

You know, did you do maths A level or anything like that?

You don't.

No, no, I don't have any A levels, which is crazy.

You know, when I tell people that, in fact, I had a conversation with somebody the other day and she was like, so you don't, you didn't like graduate from college, you didn't even graduate from university or anything like that.

And you know, obviously I got my GCSEs and things like that.

And to be honest with you, this, this again, this sounds quite crazy, but I've never ever loved maths, which sounds, you know, it sounds weird, but it also proves a point that actually it's so much more than that.

It's your relationship with money.

To be honest with you, most of my job is speaking to people, need to be able to speak to people, kind of empathize with people.

And I think the best financial advisors can do that.

I think the ones that are great at maths, that's great.

But if you can't even kind of empathize with people and want to actually help people, you're not going to go very far.

Yeah.

If they rock up on a Zoom call or in your office.

And like the back, the back wall's full of equations, like the, the movie, the Accountant sort of thing.

You're like, ah, that'd be quite scary.

If you like right by, I'm off and, and you know, we see it obviously, I was speaking to Vicky about this yesterday, but we see it obviously in the accountant industry as well and I think it can be quite unapproachable sometimes.

And obviously I'm hoping to change that and hopefully take it a little bit bigger this year as well with that.

But you know, I just show up as me every day and without the suit and all of that sort of stuff.

And I think, I think it stands out in the industry, which is nice.

I think it's really important to start breaking down these barriers because obviously as business owners, but also as, as humans, as people, you know, we, we shouldn't find our accounts and find money.

So scary.

And you know, we need to start embracing it, talking about it like we are today, you know, looking at.

And I think I really resonate with what you're saying.

Like financial advisors might be a bit stuffy and old and you know, but I think you're right in saying like the world is changing so much so quickly.

The information and, and how we react.

I mean, you only have to look at jobs, don't you, and, and see like employment.

20 years ago the options were completely different to what they are now.

You could be a social media influencer and, and earn your money through there and earn a lot of money really quickly and not understand what to do with it or how to manage it sort of thing.

So maybe a financial advisor that is in their like 50s, 60s sort of thing that have grown up in a different generation, they might not quite resonate with that or understand that.

So I think that's really important.

Definitely a lot of my clients are content creators and even things like only fans.

You know, these people are making extreme amounts of money very, very fast and who knows how long it's going to go on for.

So you know, they need to be making sure that they're investing it for their future and actually they're making the most of it.

But again, these things can happen quite fast.

You know, it can blow up on social media and all of a sudden you're like, what do I do with all this money?

And it sounds like a great problem to have, doesn't it?

But you know, it be quite scary for people.

Yeah, definitely, it can be quite overwhelming, especially if your money mindset or the way you've grown up around money and you're at home and.

And how you've been talked about around money, it could be quite, quite scary.

You can push money away by your mindset sort of thing.

Oh, my gosh.

Definitely.

I think what most of it is mindset, to be fair.

And even in the conversations that I have with clients, I think what's a good.

A good financial advisor is somebody who, like, kind of challenges those mindsets a little bit in.

In a nice way, of course, but, you know, in a way that, you know, you said this, and you said this.

These don't kind of match up.

Why, you know, and I think that's quite helpful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I see it in my coaching pet groomers.

Like, they come to me and.

And I had a conversation with someone yesterday, and a lot of the conversation was around looking after the customers and looking after the staff members.

And after a while, I sort of stopped.

Stopped and said, right, we've kind of looked at your goals and understood where you.

What you want to achieve.

And you've talked a lot about your customers and you've talked a lot about your staff, but you've not mentioned yourself.

You know, you.

The business owner.

You've not mentioned how much money you want to make.

You know, it's all very well paying your staff and, you know, bringing in all your customers, but you've not mentioned yourself.

You know, you've got to.

You got to start thinking about yourself.

And again, this.

That sort of value system, isn't it?

And like, putting everyone else first and.

And also just think, like, a lot of people just tend to think about the present, you know, you know, I'm making money, I'm paying the bills.

You know, maybe I'm saving up like an emergence fund, which is great, and obviously I'd recommend that to anybody, but I think it's really important to think about your future self as well.

Kind of where.

Where do they want to be?

Do they want to look back and think, thank God I put some money away.

Thank God I've put something, you know, I've got a pension that I can kind of rely on in the future, or, you know, I've protected myself, all of these different things.

I think you'll definitely thank yourself.

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My.

My clients getting sick of me.

Sorry, my coffee machine's just.

Just emptying itself.

My clients are probably getting sick of me.

I've read the Psychology of Money a few times by Morgan Houselike and there's a passage in there that really resonates with me and he sort of says, you know, you don't need to have an excuse to save money.

And he kind of says, like, history has taught us that we don't need an excuse to save money.

So, like, if you haven't got any kind of like real specific goal to save money, you don't need one.

Just start saving your money.

You know, it's easy said than done.

Is it?

Sometimes.

But, yeah, I'd say that's where we should kind of start, if possible.

Yeah, definitely.

And be intentional about it.

And we talk about like, the Challenger Banks, like Starling and Monzo and stuff like that.

It's never been so much easier to sort of allocate your money and, and save your money.

I'd started the 1P challenge with Monzo on in January where they, they take a penny every day and hopefully it will save, if I get to the end of the year, 600 odd quid.

But, you know, it's having that intention, isn't it, and being intentional.

Yeah, it's funny, I read an article the other day and it was about like the different generations with money and this is, this is quite random but, like, with Gen Z's, the biggest consideration for them to take like, money into a bank would be if it had an app.

And I just thought that was so funny.

Like, obviously it's so obvious, but they didn't even think about the interest rates, they didn't even think about the charges, they didn't think about anything, just whether it had an app.

And obviously with like other millennials and stuff like that, a lot of the time it's like advertising and how they actually come across.

And yeah, I just thought that was really interesting.

Yeah, yeah, it's really.

It's all about education, isn't it?

And, yeah, our poor lad, he started working in a pub and he's at school as well.

And obviously he doesn't pay tax, but we kind of tax him in a way.

So we're like, right, you got your wages, give us a little bit.

And then we tuck it away for him as well.

So it's like education, isn't it, and starting to make savings a bit of a norm.

I suppose for everyone.

So.

Yeah, well that's.

We've put the worlds to rights.

Let's have a little chat about some questions that I see pop up quite a lot in the, in the Facebook group.

So I thought we could break this down into sort of sole traders and sort of limited companies and directors and talk about as a sole trader, like as a business owner, what kind of things we should be thinking about to, you know, help our financial journey, like protections and pensions and stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

I think first place to start with is your income.

I always say that.

And that's because, you know, we can set you up the pension, we can set you up the ISAs and things, but if you haven't got an income, how are you going to keep saving towards those and putting pensions aside, what about your bills, what about your mortgage and things like that?

I know, I know it seems quite obvious but I think not a lot of people stop to actually think about what the impact would be realistically.

We don't have sick pay as self employed people.

It's not something that we're given.

So everything is on us.

And even if you have staff and things like that, somebody needs to look after those staff members.

Somebody needs to keep it running realistically.

So I think income protection is a massive consideration for people.

Of course it depends on kind of your medical history and stuff like that, but I think a lot of the time it's cheaper than what people expect.

Obviously from the pet expo we got quite a few inquiries so we've been reviewing protection and also recommending them and I can see that a lot of people have got policies at the moment but they're not always the most suitable for them.

And what I mean by that is I had a lady who had an income protection policy already and actually she were paying like over and above for, for cover that she couldn't actually get so it wasn't matching her current income.

And basically the, the provider will only pay you for an income that you're actually receiving.

So we changed that, made it so much cheaper and she's get, she's got a better quality of COVID because it isn't increasing, it's going to stay exactly the same.

So yeah, income protection is a massive one.

I think it's definitely underrated.

I think some people don't have never heard of it.

I've come with up across so many people who've actually never heard of it before.

But yeah.

Is there any like particular questions about it?

Yeah.

What kind of things does income Protection actually cover you for.

So I asked this because we had, coming into the pandemic, we had a insurance policy that had.

What was that clause on it?

Business interruption.

And we're like, oh, we're going into a pandemic.

We've got business interruption.

We're going to be.

Oh my God, it was such a pain to.

We won, we won.

You know, the insurance company went to the high court and got.

Because they tried to avoid all our claims and then we had to.

And the high court threw them out and said, you got to pay it.

But then we had to find a person who had been diagnosed with COVID prior to something date in March, prior, before it, within 10, within I think five miles of our business.

And of course I got the bit between my teeth and she found someone who wrote a list.

And try and find people.

I put an appeal out on the local Facebook group for our.

For the village where our business was.

And the postie, the postie was really like, you know, you get friendly with your postie, don't you say?

The postie was like, actually I do know someone that had Covid before that date, you know.

And so he put us in touch and she was very like, she was like, yeah, so like up the insurance companies, I'll do you a statement sort of thing.

So we wrote a statement out for her and she signed it and stuff and we got our payout.

But even then, and this is why it's really important to understand what these policies are about.

Even though we had a payout from the insurance company for business interruption, we didn't get nearly as much as we thought we might have.

Although the accountant thought that they were quite generous.

We were like, well, but they didn't because they only paid out on sort of the kind of profit, not the turnover.

Right.

So.

So I think this is really a really important point because you, we listeners might be sitting there going, well, I've got income protection, I'm going to be okay if I'm this or if this happens.

But it's not until we actually go to make a claim that we then become a bit like, ah, because, you know, insurance companies wriggle out of things as much as they possibly can sometimes.

So what should people be looking for when taking out income protection and what sort of things, scenarios does it cover?

Yeah, it's similar to what we're saying about the investing.

It's like, you know, you can either do you need to do days and days of research, you know, to kind of figure out exactly what you need to be covered for.

And the type of policy that you need all this different stuff, or you can just kind of come to us and we'll, we'll do all of that for you.

And what I would say is, obviously it's important to make sure, like I said, it's, it's all in line with your income, all of your health stuff are disclosed.

That's really, really important.

And the cases that I've seen that like, haven't paid out of like, that I've heard of are always because they didn't disclose something or it's not like, for example, they took it out like 20 years ago and their income has changed.

You know, these things they do need reviewing and obviously that's part of what we do.

But what it actually covers is like more minor things.

So it's not your critical illness policy, it's much more comprehensive than that.

It's kind of backache, it's mental illnesses.

I had a conversation with somebody the other day, I was reviewing that, like whole protection situation and she was off work and she'd been claiming on income protection for four years.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So that, she literally said that, that saved me, like, you know, she, like I said, she was struggling with mental illness and it was just a massive example of like the impact of it as well.

Um, but yeah, I'd say it's more like your minor things.

So the, the reasons why you'd be off work and what, what I'd normally say is it's, it's not entirely short term.

So let's say you get a cold and you're going to be off for two weeks.

It's not that kind of thing, you know, I mean, the average claim period is six.

I think it's six and a half years for income protection.

And the way that we normally set it up is until age 67, so until retirement age.

And again, this is quite a common misconception, but if you make a claim and you end up going back to work and that income protection policy will go right back into place as before and the premium is not going to increase.

So I get the question, you know, well, what if I do, you know, what if I do claim on it, is it just going to shoot up and then I can't even afford it anyway?

No.

So the sooner you take it, the cheaper it's going to be and that's going to stay exactly the same until age 67.

It's not like you've got, you haven't got a no claims bonus attached to your body sort of thing.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

So it's obviously the younger you are, the healthier you are, the better it's going to be.

But don't think that just because you've got like asthma or you know, these like chronic health conditions that you can't get it.

We've got so many different options as well.

So things that just sort of a couple of scenarios, I'm not going to like go through them all.

But so like you said, if you, if you get the flu, this, this like winter and you're off for like a couple of weeks, it probably won't kick in then.

But if, let's say there's a few people I know that have been bitten by dogs or been been scratched by cats or bitten by cats and been out fight, you know, they've perhaps had to go and have plastic surgery or you know, like recover over a couple of like a month or so.

Would that be an appropriate scenario for income protection?

Yeah, potentially.

It depends how we set it up again.

So you can either have, you call it a defer period, basically it's like the waiting period before it kicks in.

And the shorter that is obviously said, the more expensive it would be.

So you can have one month, two month or three months and it's different depending on what kind of occupation you've got.

For example, I had an electrician yesterday and he wanted a one month one because if he broke his leg then he won't be able to work kind of immediately.

Whereas, you know, somebody who kind of works less of a manual job, you can kind of do a three month one because realistically they're probably going to be able to get back to work.

But what I will say is that anything that's going to keep you off for longer than three months, you can pretty much guarantee it's going to keep you off for a hell of a lot longer because it's something that's more serious.

So it just depends on the way that that's set up.

And actually you can compliment that protection, can't you?

Because if you set up a one month policy, all you got to do then really in your bank is to save one month's worth of, you know, turnover.

So you cover the one month with your savings and then your income protection kicks in.

Yeah, exactly.

And again, another question that I get is like, well, why don't I just like put the, let's say it's like 30 quid a month income protection, why don't I just put that away?

And that can like be my emergency fund.

Realistically, we know how long it would take to save up six years worth.

It would be impossible, wouldn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

And over the whole term, for example, if you did claim until retirement, it's it millions of pounds, like that's, that's how much you're actually covered for.

So it's important to think of it like that.

Yeah.

And so we were very naive, I suppose, with our, with our business interruption policy and thought we were going to get our turnover back.

But they were very strict with what they paid out and we had to submit a hell of a lot of figures.

Thank God we had an accountant to do all that for us.

So if you have income protection and you kind of think, well, it protects all of my income, is that right?

Or is it just protecting your drawings or does it give you money for all your bills, all your business bills?

Yeah.

So if you're a sole trader, normally, normally would work off the net profit and it would kind of just be like a percentage of your income, normally enough to cover your mortgage, your bills and kind of like your essential outgoings.

And that's the way that we normally do it, just to make sure that the full amount is definitely going to be covered.

So there's no kind of that situation where I said where you're taking too much, paying for too much, and when it comes to it, you can't actually claim for the whole amount of.

Yeah, and I think that's really important for people to understand because they might be thinking, well, will it cover my rent if I'm in a salon?

Will it cover staff wages?

Will it cover.

And I think it's really important to ask these sort of pointy questions, isn't it?

Because you've got to really understand what, what that's going to pay out for you.

So again, you know, we teach having like a, like you said, like a, an emergency fund, a business buffer to cover things like that.

Like three to six months of expenses to cover that definitely.

Sort of stuff.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

And how often do you have to review your turnover to, you know, report or change your insurance?

You know, are you looking at big fluctuations or sort of yearly.

Yeah, I think as long as it's not going down, then that's good.

You always come up, obviously, but as long as it's not going down, then the policy is still suitable.

But let's say your income is increase increasing quite substantially, then obviously you're outgoing things.

Things are likely going to increase as well, I'd say.

Probably yearly is a good time to kind of just have a look at it, make sure that it's still suitable, make any changes if needed.

But I think like I said, if you can lock it in kind of as early as you can, at least you've got it then.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's.

And I wrote something down here just to mention, I suppose if you were to be taking some of your income as cash, that's probably not a good thing when it comes to your income protection plan, because if you couldn't record it, you're not getting paid it.

Basically that's it.

So unless it's kind of in on actual paper and stuff, then.

Yeah, yeah, you miss out on your payment there.

Exactly, yeah.

Everything that's kind of on your accounts and stuff like that, that's what would normally go off.

Yeah.

And do you know whether you can claim the.

The payments back through your business or is it.

Is it.

Do you know if it's an allowable expense?

Yeah.

So it works slightly different for sole traders and directors.

So sole traders, it would.

You can't kind of put it through the business.

Obviously you can pay for it by the business, but it's not an expense.

But when it is paid out, it's completely tax free.

So that's a nice benefit for sole traders, but for limited companies it's a slightly different policy.

So it's not just the standard income protection, it's called executive income protection.

And for directors, what you can do is you can pay it through the business.

Obviously it reduces your corporation tax bill down because it's an expense, but when it does pay out, it will be taxable.

Well, just like paye.

I see.

Okay, brilliant.

I think.

Anything else to mention around income protection?

I don't think so.

I think the only other thing is, you know, realistically, if you can't get income protection, then I say the next best thing to look at is critical illness.

Obviously income protection is good for your income and stuff, but critical illness is definitely one that you should have if possible, even alongside income protection, because they've both got completely different uses.

So, yeah, just if you can't get income protection, don't worry because I was looking at crickets as well.

So the way I understand the two.

So income protection would pay out a sort of a monthly kind of wage for you.

Critical illness, should you be diagnosed with a critical illness, it will pay out like a lump sum and pay your mortgage off or something like that.

Or pay out to friends, to family sort of thing.

Yeah, exactly that.

And it works again, slightly different.

Whether it's sole trader or limited company, there's different options.

So for sole trader, again, it's not a business expense.

It would be paid personally and obviously that's all tax free anyway.

And then if you're a limited company, there's again, it's not the same policy.

It's a slightly different business protection policy, but you can pay it through the business as an expense and.

But when it pays out, it would actually be tax free.

Okay, we'll cover limited companies in a bit, maybe.

Yeah.

So one another thing that I just wanted to clear up and maybe help people that are sole traders when it comes to mortgages.

Is that okay to sort of have a chat about?

Yeah, yeah.

Cause like I said, it's not the area that I tend to specialize in, but I hear it all.

So, yeah, we can try some general questions.

So obviously a lot of people aspire to become homeowners, and I get a lot of clients sort of coming in as part of their goal is to become a mortgage, to be a house owner and obviously have to get a mortgage.

But one, one question I always say ask them is like, well, okay, if that's your goal, have you gone and found out how much deposit you need or, or what you need to get that mortgage?

It's often like, mate, but I'll go and do that.

Yeah.

What, what are your sort of top tips for a sole trader when it's coming to, you know, getting onto the housing ladder and applying for that mortgage?

Yeah, I'd probably say just try and work backwards.

So if you can.

I know it's difficult because sometimes you want to buy a house and you want to buy it there and then.

But what I'd normally say is try and start preparing a year or two in advance.

And you can kind of, obviously you can work with us or you can work with whoever, maybe a mortgage broker to kind of support you and see, you know, if this is the house that you want to buy, this is how much it's valued at, this is how much income you'll need to have.

And then you kind of know what you need to be working towards a little bit then.

And I think that preparation is key.

You know, we do get a lot of people who come to us and just say, you know, like directors, for example, they're like, I'm taking a 12 grand salary and I want to buy a house worth 400,000.

And it's like, well, you know, on paper it's not showing that.

Again, we've got different ways that we can do it and obviously I'm not mortgage broker but all I know is they're fantastic at that sort of stuff.

I know that they can do kind of one year's accounts and things like that and they've got like different lenders who specialize in self employed people as well, which is really good that not a lot of people tend to know about.

So yeah, there were one other thing as well.

I think there's a lot of kind of stigma around it.

I think people worry a lot and think, oh my God, I'm going to struggle to get a mortgage.

Is it going to be really difficult?

Obviously there might be kind of different steps and different hoops and things that you have to jump through.

But I never think it's as bad as people kind of talk about because like I said, there are them different options.

Yeah, it was something, it was definitely something that I didn't.

It was on my mind when I went from employee to obviously self employed, stroke sort of director of a company.

It was all new to me as well.

My wife had been self employed for many years but I was still like, you know, will I still be able to get loans?

Obviously we, we had a mortgage and you know, we were lucky to fix our mortgage before I made the transition over.

But I was always that niggle in my mind like what will happen when it comes to remortgage and will I, will I be able to get loans?

And I suppose there was a period where it might have just been the country in general, but there was a period where those letters were stopping, didn't come through the letterbox offering you money because you know, but then those letters started to reappear again.

So I was like, I must be, my, my credit rating and stuff must be, I must be on the approved list again.

And I have since like got credit cards and loans and stuff as of when I needed them.

But it is a, is a niggle, isn't it?

It's a beer.

Especially people that have come from employment where you can prove your income and you've got your wage slips and stuff.

To sell and you've got that stability, haven't you as well?

It's a massive transition.

It's something that all business owners struggle with at one point, don't they?

Yeah, I suppose.

Again, you know, highlighting the importance of really good record keeping.

Is there any like behind the scenes, like do they look down on people that do their own books versus accountants that do their books or anything like that?

Is there Any stigma around that or they just look at the.

What comes through.

Yeah, I don't really think there is any stigma.

I think as long as things are done nice and tidy, you know, the way that they're supposed to be done.

Obviously, I do vouch for accountants.

I think they're very helpful.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

There's a lifesavers a lot of the time.

So obviously I'm recommending accountant to anyone just because I think it would help with the mortgage process.

You know, a lot of the time, like, even when we're doing pensions and stuff.

But mortgages, like, we'll have the conversation with the accountant and can just go directly to them to get the information we need.

So it cuts out that hassle for the client, which is nice, but just, just.

Yeah, just make sure you've got clarity around your numbers as well.

And just kind of knowing your numbers is important.

Yeah, I mean, they.

I always say to all of anyone in business, like, your accountant is.

Your business is critical friend.

And it's certainly looking back over our lives where we've taken out mortgages and stuff, there's always been some kind of input from the accountant, you know.

Yeah.

When queries are coming up, when the mortgage brokers sort of saying, oh, we need this or we need that, oh, my God, it just fries your brain because, like, where am I supposed to get out from?

But the accountant's got it, you know.

Oh, they've got it all.

Yeah.

And what I will say as well, I was thinking about this every day, is just make sure that you're working with someone that you actually like.

I know that sounds really basic, doesn't it?

It sounds.

Well, of course I am, but there are so many people I speak to who are like, well, you know, my accountant doesn't even hardly get in touch with me, or, you know, I've got a financial advisor.

And like, I don't really feel like I. I don't know.

I don't really get on with them that much.

But I think they're a critical part of your business and you need to feel like they're supporting your.

They're on your side.

They want to see you win all of that stuff.

And I think we all know the importance of, you know, the people around us and the impact they have on us.

I think we need to extend that to accountants and financial advisors and business mentors and all that kind of stuff as well.

Yeah.

And I think different cultures, they.

Or different countries have different cultures around this, don't they?

And, you know, Maybe the States, they're a bit more reliant on their accountants, I don't know.

But definitely when it comes to like investing, like the 401k, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And people in America are a lot more educated towards investing, probably because they don't have so much of a state to fall back on and they're a bit more self sufficient, so they're, you know, they're getting that education.

Whereas over here, maybe we're a bit reluctant to sort of invest in and save because we've got a bit of a safety net.

Although it's not a great safety net.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

There's a massive difference, isn't there?

I think.

Yeah.

Like you said, you've got to be much more self sufficient, haven't you?

Whereas us, I know, like you said, it's not the best certainty, but there is something in there that's right, hopefully.

Maybe by the time we get to 80 and we retire.

So this is a big one for a lot of sole traders and the pension, you know, and again, many people might be coming from employment where they've had to be given a pension because of the new rules and now they've gone self employed and it's always kind of like on the.

Sometimes it's money that they know they need to be investing but they can't quite afford or.

But the other question now, I suppose that's coming to fruition, is pension versus investment.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, is pension the right, right way to go these days?

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, that's a question that I get all the time and I would say, I'd say they've both got totally different purposes, to be honest with you.

Yes, they've got overlaps and things like that, but I'd say the pension stuff is, well, it.

100% is the most tax efficient way to save your retirement right now with the current rules.

Isis, yes, they're very tax efficient but they're nowhere near as tax efficient as pensions.

So with the pensions, I think you're getting free money from the government.

When the hell do you ever get free money from the government?

It's, you know, it's not a common thing, is it?

Make the most of that if you, if you can, if you're a sole trader, if you're a limited company, I know we'll cover probably a little bit later, but make sure you're reducing your tax bill as much as possible.

Again, why would you not?

No brainer.

And within the pension and the isa, they're both invested.

So again, a common thing that I get is people think they're completely different, but actually what's inside them can be exactly the same with, in terms of they're going to be investing the exact same way.

Just.

Just a tax wrapper around them is different.

So, yeah, and also in terms of, like, what you said about, you know, which one's best, another thing that I hear quite a lot is, well, you know, what if I want to retire before age 57 or why should I tie my money away and not be able to access it, you know, my money, why is the government telling me when I can?

What if it keeps rising?

So what I'd say in that situation is set up your pension, get it for the tax reasons and then have an ISA alongside it as well.

Because.

Because that, I said, provides you with so much more flexibility.

Obviously with investing, you want to make sure that you're invested for at least five years, but if you did want to retire early, because you know that is the goal, then you can and you've got that option.

So I think it's the best of both worlds.

And go and Google that secret phrase, compound interest.

Yes, that is one.

And that's what I'm going to be covering a lot at the pet expo, because again, it's one of those things not many people know about, but it is, it's magical, isn't it?

It is like, it's like compound interest, a phrase that no one gets taught at school.

The most valuable thing ever.

Yeah.

As I say, I'm a bit biased.

But I remember when our mentor sort of showed us like, compounding and the compound effects and stuff like that.

And he uses.

There's a podcast about this that we've done a few years ago, but he, he shared his screen and showed us the compound interest calculator that is available to anyone.

You can play about figures.

And, and I just say to my son now, like, 200 pounds a month.

200 pounds a month from the age of 18 every month until you're like 65.

And I showed him the figures, it was like million, over a million pounds, like just through compound.

Interesting.

So interesting.

So the earlier you can start as well, the better, isn't it?

But I suppose when it comes to pensions, there's also different ways to access your money when, like buying annuities and stuff like that, so that there's loads of considerations to make.

Yeah, of course there is.

And you know, realistically, not a lot of people know what they're going to want to do at retirement.

So it's about kind of just setting yourself up the best possible way and then reviewing it over the years as well.

I think a lot of people just kind of put the pension or they've got old workplace pensions and things that just sat there and you know, it's quite frustrating for me sometimes because I see that, you know, it's been sat there for 10 years and like we were saying, with the compound interest that one there is just sat there doing nothing.

It just moved it and it could have doubled like that, you know, in 10 years.

It does have the opportunity to double if it's invested correctly.

But it, it does, it's quite sad to see sometimes when I think, oh my gosh, it's missed out on so much growth.

Yeah, I suppose that's a, that's a challenge for people listening.

If you've, if you've had employment over, over your lifetime, even if it's multiple employees, employers, go find your pensions and get all together if you can.

I can't because the police pension isn't, doesn't work like that.

But if you've been in the workplace and you've had a workplace pension, go and get them, gather them all up, put them in one pot and then like, like you said, keep going with the, with the same.

I had one of your members actually get in touch with me and say, you know, from the master class, they said, oh, thank you so much for letting me know about, you know, the Government Trace in, the Government Trace in search tool.

I mentioned it on there and she went and did it and she found a pension, I think it worth like 10 grand that she had no idea about.

She literally did not even know it was set up.

And she was like, thank you so much.

Now will you help me make the most of it?

That's it, that's it.

It's your money.

You gotta go track this stuff down and then put it all in one pot.

Yeah.

And just keep, you know, like, keep track of it because your future self will massively thank yourself for it.

Yeah, yeah.

So as a sole trader, you pay into your pension and you say you get tax relief on that.

Yeah.

So you get tax relief directly into your pension at, I think it's about 20% directly into your pension that you don't need to kind of do anything for.

If you're a high rate taxpayer then you can reclaim that when your accountant does your tax return as well.

So yeah, again you're saving your tax, but it's just done a slightly differently.

It's directly into the pension.

Excellent.

Another reason to get an accountant so they can sort all that out for you.

So you don't have to worry about all this when you're doing your tax return.

Yeah, 100.

And then is there anything else that you can think of for sole traders to sort of, Sort of consider?

No, I think we've mainly covered it.

So obviously your old pensions and things, massively important.

I think if we could try and find them, if you know where they are.

And do you think, well, you know, it might, it might be doing fine.

Just look at it anyway.

Just.

Or, you know, get a financial advisor to look at it anyway.

Because a lot of the time you don't, you don't really know what you're looking at, you know, is that, is that fair to say?

Yeah, you know, you can, you look at the value of it and I think the information that pension providers send out here is most of the time completely useless.

They don't tell you how much it's grown every year, they don't tell you if it's going down or they don't even tell you what your charges are and things like that.

So, yeah, I'd say just have a look.

You might be surprised at what comes back.

Yeah.

Or disappointed.

But one thing, another top tip, even if you do have to persevere, because it can be com.

Not complex, but it can be laborious trying to find pensions, especially if you've got married, you're going to have to provide marriage certificates.

If you've moved house, you're going to have to do change of addresses.

So it's not the most easiest thing to do.

And it certainly put up barriers, maybe for security reasons, but they put, they put up barriers that you've got to be really like, you got to dig your digging nails in and get, get those done and get, get the policy details and stuff like that.

Yeah, I think it's one of them things that you kind of put.

Put to the side quite a lot, but once you actually get on with it, it's not as bad as you expected.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's one of them things that you think, oh, my God, that, that's hassle.

But a lot of the time we, we can do that, like for the clients as well.

So, like, we get a lot of people that come to us and say, like, we literally have no idea where our pensions are.

Can you help?

We'll find them all.

All we need is like a driving license or like you said, a marriage certificate.

Send it over, it's all up to date.

We know where everything is and we can help you put them into one part then as well.

So there are options but I do think it's easy enough to do yourself.

It's just making sure you ring them up and they'll tell you exactly what you need to do.

Yeah, do it once, get it done.

It's done.

Yeah, done then.

So if we go on to sort of limited companies.

So these are going to be policies that your business buys.

So they're going to be allowable expenses.

You're going to be putting them through your, through your accounts as an expense.

So what kind of things can we insurances can we access as a, as a company director to protect ourselves?

Yeah, so this is a topic that I like because it's one of those things that not many people really know about.

So a lot of the ones that I talk about like pretty much daily is life insurance policies.

So.

So I see so many people paying personally like you know, paying in your personal bank account for life insurance policies when actually they can have the exact same thing but pay it through the business and it will reduce the corporation tax bill down.

It's just one of those, it's a no brainer.

Same with critical illness.

Like we mentioned before, again it's a slightly different policy.

It's got a slightly different name but you can still put it through the business.

It's.

I wouldn't say it's as comprehensive as critical illness, but you're getting those benefits as a tax as well.

So it just depends on what's more important to you.

The one thing I would say to be careful of these policies is it doesn't have children's critical illness on it as a standard like your personal ones do.

So what we tend to do is set you up the ones through the business and if you do have children, do like a small policy alongside it just to make sure you've got that children's critical illness because that's really, really important as well.

So that's your relevant life.

Any.

Sorry, can I just ask about the children?

Critical illness?

No.

Obviously my son hasn't got a mortgage to pay off.

She's only 16.

What would you, are you looking to, you know, God forbid your, your child becomes critically ill. Is this money to help you like with hospital transportation, being off work to, to look after them and that sort of stuff?

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

So it's a time off work that you need to look after them.

It's you know, Realistically, it's holidays and things like that.

If you wanted to do stuff like that, it's maybe if you want it to go private for care, it tends to be 25,000 per policy.

So for example, for a couple, we might set up a small one for each of them just to make sure they've got that.

And it's until age 21 as well that they're covered for.

And it also includes like adopted children or stepchildren as well.

So it's not just kind of, you know, it covers all of that.

Okay.

Okay.

So life insurance, critical illness, Is it like a key person?

Because if I was to go out on my bicycle and got knocked off and was unconscious for a month in.

In hospital, like my Emma and my wife could run my business a little bit, but she's not me, if that makes sense.

So is there like a key person insurance?

Yeah, there is a key person insurance.

And I'd say how suitable it is depends on the size of your business.

So if you would, like, you and M are obviously you two the only directors.

Realistically, a relevant life policy would do the exact same thing that a key person insurance would.

And most policies with key person insurance, you can't actually put them through the business as a business expense.

So that's why most of the time for smaller businesses, I would 100% recommend relevant life policy more than a key person.

I know the idea, like the name of the key person sounds like it's more applicable, but realistically, it's kind of big corporations where, you know, there's multiple business partners and shareholders and things like that.

And obviously you've got like shareholders protection as well, which again, is similar to key person, but again, they're bigger corporations, I'd say, not kind of husband and wife teams.

Yeah.

So it wouldn't.

Probably wouldn't really touch the kind of people that we work with, smaller businesses and that definitely, like, for employees, because if you've got a business and you've got a, you know, a very important manager or an employee that does a lot of your pet grooming for you, could you have any cover for them?

Yeah, yeah.

So again, for that, you probably look at key key person for the employee or like relevant life.

But with the relevant life, it would kind of go to the employee and their family.

Different people, like different employees, like, different stuff.

You've also got like private medical insurance policies that you can set up for the team and things like that.

Income protection you can also set up for the team, which again might be useful.

So yeah, there's loads of different options for that side of things as well.

Now something that we might.

It's a bit accountancy but we should mention that if you take out private medical insurance, I don't know about the other ones, but you do as a one when you.

It's taxed as a benefit in kind as well.

So the business does pay for it, but we also pay a little bit of tax towards that as well.

Is that the same for life and.

No, that's not the same.

And again, like I said, I've worked with a lot of accountants and things and a lot of them didn't actually know that that is the case.

So with relevant life, when it does pay out, it is actually tax free.

So it's not a benefit in kind.

Nice.

Okay.

And then any other insurances you can think of?

Just I think we mentioned it briefly, so I won't cover it too much.

But just like the income protection and the fact that you can pay it through your business, it's don't be switching your personal income protection and paying it through business because you won't be able to claim not claims or you won't be able to.

Yes.

Claim it as a business expense.

So it has to be called executive income protection and it's treated differently for tax and obviously it's much more beneficial.

I see.

Okay.

And then obviously the other thing that maybe some people don't really understand is that your business, your limited company can make payment, pension payments into your private pension and that is tax free.

Yeah, exactly.

So another nice benefit for limited companies, basically you can pay your premiums into your pension and basically what that would do is it would reduce your corporation tax bill down.

So let's say you put in, I don't know, 10,000 in one year, it would reduce your corporation tax bill but by two and a half thousand, which is quite significant.

It's quite a nice benefit to have and I'd say it's probably one of the most tax, again one of the most tax efficient benefits that there are for limited companies at this time.

So just something that I've considered.

So if your business pays into your pension and obviously that reduces your corporation tax, if you then pay into your pension as well, do you still get the, the tax relief from the government?

So yeah, you'd basically get the tax relief, but it just wouldn't be like you may as well just pay it through your business.

You can do.

But it's more, it's more, I'd say it's more tax Efficient to do that, just to put it through the business.

If you've got a limited company or if you're a sole trader, just obviously pay it personal and then you get that tax relief.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, I mean, loads of information, loads of education there.

Hopefully some people will be like, staring at the podcast going, I didn't know that.

I didn't know.

I didn't.

Obviously, I mean, you know, we talk about these and people just.

Some people might just be seeing the monthly premiums, like, okay, I've got this insurance and I've got that insurance.

And, you know, insurance is insurance, isn't it?

It's some.

Well, hopefully, touch wood, you never have to use it.

But that's what it's there for, isn't it?

It's.

It's in the background.

It's there to protect you.

For some people, it's there to help them sleep well at night, you know.

Yes.

The premiums can add up when you have multiple policies and maybe you'll look back and go, well, I never needed that.

But you just never know.

Of course, you know, you might need it.

It's.

I think the reason why I'm so passionate about is because I've seen the cases where, you know, like, like I said, my dad has been a mortgage broker for 18 years.

He's sold insurance for 18 years, and we've seen so many people claim on them.

Um, obviously, like, I've just got a couple of examples.

But there was a client who my dad recommended some protection for.

She never kind of replied to him, never ended up taking it out.

And then she messaged him a year later and said, please, Damien, did I take this protection out?

I've got cancer now.

I'm hoping that I took it out.

Did I?

And unfortunately, she never got around to doing it.

So I know it.

That is.

It's difficult to talk about these things, but it's so important because we all think these things aren't going to happen to us.

But the statistics do show that they do happen.

You know, every one in two people are going to get cancer.

Yeah, you know, that's it.

Either I had someone I used to work with and he got, you know, he was only in his probably late 30s and he had a skin cancer.

Mortgage paid off.

Yeah.

And then he kept saying, my wife kept taking me out to, like, these hot countries afterwards.

I don't know what she was trying to get paid off after that.

But fortunately he, you know, it was minor.

He survived, you know, but the mortgage got paid off because he had critical illness.

And I always think, you know, we've taken out private medical insurance through the business.

And I said to Emma, I was like, this is the one thing that we don't cancel.

You know, you think again, when you're looking at the money coming in and going out of your business and you're like, right, 50 quid for insurance or whatever the premium might be, that might be an easy, like, oh, just cancel that one, you know.

Yeah.

To save a bit of money.

But if you're gonna do it, like, just make sure that is the last thing that you cancel.

Because like you said, that's exactly it.

Yeah.

But as weird if he, if he did, you know, it's that feeling, isn't it, of thinking, oh my gosh, why did I do that?

And like, again, I had another, it was actually a close family friend, so this one hit even, even worse.

But I am, I'd recommended protection to them quite a few times.

You know, they'd got two, two children, a mortgage and everything.

And then unfortunately he got a brain tumor a year later and again his mortgage would have been paid off.

He was a self employed kitchen fitter as well.

So he couldn't work, couldn't drive, had like literally struggled to pay the bills and then he died as well.

So it would, that was a really difficult case for me to obviously have to deal with, but it just, again, it just shows me the importance.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

And when, when things like this do happen in people's families, as the, as the financial advisor, do you provide any support?

I mean, I'm just thinking like, do you help with like making the claims or contacting the companies?

Do you offer anything like that or does the family have to sort of do that themselves?

Yeah, yeah.

So if I had a client and a client who was obviously going through a difficult time and needed help doing it, then I'd be more than happy.

Obviously it's not exactly part of my job, but it's important.

I helped set it up.

I'm going to help you try and get the money as well.

So yeah, we definitely help with that.

It can be very daunting, can't it, to sort of have it, to wade through claim forms and speaking to people whilst having to deal with like serious illnesses and stuff.

Exactly, yeah.

So the more supply that can give the person then the better.

Yeah, brilliant.

Well, fantastic chat on that note.

Hopefully.

Yeah, on that bombshell, hopefully people have found this useful and have started thinking about it.

You know, if you're not going to do it for yourself, do it for your family.

I think it's also a message because, like, if I'm.

If I'm gone, it doesn't really matter to me, does it?

You know, but it's.

It's all about the family as well, and.

And looking after them, so.

Yeah.

Yeah, brilliant.

So how can people get hold of you?

Good question.

Are you posting this anywhere or can I give you my details?

Yeah, chuck it.

Give us.

Give us your website and details and stuff like that and then.

Have you got a website yourself?

Yeah, it's just the financewoman.co.uk so, finance woman.

And then you're on Instagram.

Is that where you hang out?

Mostly, yeah.

Again, the finance woman.co.uk on Instagram as well, so it's nice and easy.

Excellent, Excellent.

Thank you for your time and the education and we'll see you soon.

If not, we'll see you at the Pet Pro.

Yeah, take care.

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