In this episode, we talk to Nick Pezzuto, a career changer with 19 years in education. Mr. Pezzuto shares his journey from the restaurant industry to teaching. He discusses the challenges and rewards of transitioning into education, emphasizing the transferable skills from his previous career. Mr. Pezzuto highlights the importance of relationship-building, patience, and adaptability in teaching. He also addresses the financial adjustments, and the need for flexible programs to accommodate career changers. The conversation underscores the value of career changers in education, their unique perspectives, and the impact they can have on students' lives.

Action Items

• Explore ways to make teacher preparation programs more accessible and appealing to career changers.
• Promote the benefits of career changers in the teaching profession and highlight successful transition stories.
• Provide more support and guidance to early career teachers, especially those transitioning from other fields, on the practical aspects of teaching.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

career changers, teaching transition, educational impact, family business, financial adjustment, transferable skills, classroom dynamics, student relationships, administrative roles, teacher shortage, flexible programs, professional goals, networking benefits, career advice, educational challenges

SPEAKERS

Amy Vujaklija, Nick Pezzuto, Joi Patterson

You're shaping people that are going to grow and do great things, and you never know at the dinner table, 20 years from now, someone's going to be like, you know, remember Mr. Pizzuto, he did X, Y and Z.

This episode was originally released under the podcast titled teaching and learning theory versus practice. This rebooted episode has been migrated to teaching and leading with Dr Amy and Dr Joi I am Dr Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation,

and I am Dr Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer, our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators.

So join us on our journey become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it.

Hi. Dr, Amy, hi. Dr,

Joi, how are you good?

I'm excited to see you today, and we're going to talk about a topic that's kind of near and dear to both of us.

I know we were both career changers. I spent probably the first 10 years of my adult life, working in administrative jobs or other spaces and places before entering into education. What were you involved? Oh,

I was a research microscopist. I don't know if you know what that is, but I'm going to go way back. This is probably before you Silkwood. You know, who share is she was in the movie silk wood. And then that movie, she was a research microscopist. So I used to isolate micro particles like plutonium, uranium particles. So that was my job after graduating with a degree in biology and in chemistry, and I thought that I was going to stay in the field, because when you have a bachelor's degree in biology and chemistry, much like English, it's like, what can you do that really, can really earn you some money, and it's not a lot that you can do in those fields at an undergraduate level that can really earn a nice salary. So I went back to school, got my master's degree, thought I'd stay in the field, but then I spent some time with my children and teaching discovered me. I enjoyed teaching my children so much and started designing curriculum for me that I decided to teach instead

well, and I started with an undergraduate in English and then moved into a master's in English program when I had the opportunity to teach freshman composition. And it was exciting to me. It's kind of like teaching discovered me as well, because it wasn't my first thought. It was something I did while I was going to school for my master's in English, and so I switched into a teaching credential program, and have not turned back

right. And it's It's strange how it discovered us. It wasn't something I was planning to do and act. When I started teaching, I started with subbing. I said, I'll sub a little bit, get some experience, see if I like this. And of course, within I say, two weeks, the principal latched on to me of like, can you stay? And so I stayed. And so I got into a program, a Transition to Teaching Program at DePaul University, and got my credentials pretty quickly. It was an alternative program, and I haven't looked back. But from there, I got my administrative license, another master's degree, and a doctor degree, and I just continue to go and now I've been in higher ed for 25 years. So I've done the whole thing. I've been done the teacher, the principal, the superintendent, and now higher ed for 25 years.

Well, our guest today is has a similar background. He also was at DePaul University. So let's talk a little bit about Nikolay Pezzuto who has been in education for over 19 years in Indiana and in Illinois as a teacher, a baseball coach, an advisor, Dean, athletic director and administrator. He spent eight years as the principal of the STEM program and district 170 including being the PB BPA advisor, and is currently in his third year as the district's athletic director and assistant principal. He received his bachelor's from de. Hall University, a master's from Calumet College of St Joseph's, and his Illinois administrative license from Olivet Nazarene University, and he currently holds teaching and administrative licenses in both Illinois and Indiana. So welcome to our show. What we're talking about is really not so much the present, perhaps, or at least we're going to start the conversation with more, like the decision he you made 19 years ago.

I'm Nick how are you?

Hello everybody. Hi. Dr Patterson, hi. Doctor Amy. How are you doing great

today.

Yes, tell us, so. Amy and I, before you came on, Doctor Amy and I, we were talking about our transition to education, because, like you, we are career changers, and you know, it is a big deal. And when I think about you and where you've come from, I really think that it was a big deal. It was a huge transition for you, because you were in a very, very successful, at least lucrative, career. So tell us about what led up to your decision to become a professional educator.

Sure. Well, it all started. I had a colleague of mine who was a science teacher, and he was looking for an assistant baseball coach. We played baseball together, so I was interested. And he's like, Hey, why don't you come help me coach? So being in the restaurant industry, there's really not a lot to do between 7am and 3pm which is a standard school day. So I just asked him in a whim. He goes, You need substitutes. I'm kind of bored. He's like, Sure we do. So I start substituting at Homewood, Flossmoor, high school, wow, probably like 2003 I substituted a little bit, and then I coached. Well. The principal came to me one day and said, Hey, why don't you go back get your teaching license. We need a business teacher. You run a business. Find a way to get an Illinois license, or any state licenses, just reciprocate, because we'd like to hire you as a business teacher. So that kind of, like, got me going, but I'm like, wait a minute, I don't want to leave the family business to become a teacher. I heard all the stigmas of teaching. Oh, you know, the underpaid you're always babysitting someone else's children. The kids don't listen. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I actually had substituted for a while, so I got to see, really behind the curtain that that what the educators go through. And I'm like, it's not as bad as the public is making it out to be. The only thing that was accurate is the low pay, which has gotten a little better, but we'll get to that in a minute. So that's how I basically got into education. I started searching all kinds of of colleges and universities that had a alternative program, and I came to Dr Patterson's doorstep at Calumet College. I, at the time, was living right here in Northwest Indiana, so it was only about a 15 minute ride to Calumet College. I started going on Saturdays. I think that's when was it. Saturdays, all day, Dr Patterson, all

day,

all day. So, and that's how, that's how I got into education. That started my path.

You mentioned the restaurant business, I want to know more about that and how having that previous career prepared you for the classroom.

So dealing with the public or people outside of your own family, you develop skills and understandings of the human being, so to speak, once you step outside your family, you know, you know your family or your inner circle, when you're dealing with strangers all the time and you're providing a service or you're doing something for them to benefit them, it gives you a different perspective. And I think I had a really good understanding of how to build a relationship with people coming from the restaurant industry also having a lot of patience. I think one thing that a lot of educators that I see, especially new ones that come to our school, they seem to get frazzled and really frustrated quickly, and that's impossible. I think to teach in the undergrad, you have to have that ingrained or you have to actually, like, indoctrinate yourself, knowing that this is what's going to happen, and you have to have a really calm, cool, collective attitude, and having someone scream at you because their steak was undercooked, or having someone throw their dessert at you because it wasn't the right dessert. You know, those instances made me really just relax. So when a student is upset, or a parent is screaming to me, that's nothing, having that previous experience and prior knowledge, as they always talk about in in education, you know, bringing that prior knowledge, and I think by having that, that's that aided me tremendous. The salinity classroom, because I really never got upset, right?

I think those customer service skills really served you well in the classroom. So I want to get a little personal with you, because you were in a family business. So not only were you in a lucrative restaurant business, it was a family business, and so you choosing a different path after being in that business for so long. How did that impact the relationship with your family? Well,

at first, it was not well received at all. My official title was like Operations Manager, so I ran the two facilities. I would work the one in stego, Illinois, and we had one in mokina. So I would bounce back and forth. I was working probably 80 to 100 hours a week. So they relied on me for a lot of things. And when I sat down with those involved in my family and told them, You know, I really wanted to do this. At first, they didn't take me seriously, obviously, but they're like, oh, just because you want to coach, why do you want to teach? You can coach. You don't have to teach. I said, No, you know, after substituting and really feeling like I'm making a difference, I felt good about like I'm terrible at algebra, but I hear I am helping kids with algebra, it was more like I was just being there and reassuring them I couldn't help them find the answer, let's be truthful, because I'm terrible at math, but I knew I had some skills to get them to where they wanted to be, strictly by just being understanding, trying to be there for them. And some of the kids that I have in my community now only have one parent or a grandparent that's raising them. So having like, actual male figure in the house, just being able to be nice to them, or talk to them, or just relate to them, was was huge. And I'm like, I was it interest me? I wanted to do it more. I wasn't interested in economics of teaching because I did have some savings. I was pretty well established. It wasn't a money issue, which is, you know, that in these days, that's usually why people switch jobs because of income. I think I did it in reverse. I went from a higher paying position to a lower paying position, which, you know, that's unusual, but I did something that I wanted to do because I knew if I failed, or, let's say, after five years, you know when that curve is where all the teachers lead to profession, I still had a profession to fall back to. So it wasn't like I'm on the high wire all by myself. I did have something to fall back on, right?

You don't, you don't lose those skills. You could always go back to that. And I was going to ask you about money, and I find this a lot with career changers going into education, that maybe it was something that they always wanted to do, but their counselor talked them out of it. In high school, their parents talked them out of it because they said you wouldn't make enough money. But now they're to the point where they feel like they can afford to do what they want to do, but some not, you know, so I was wondering how you made that financial adjustment.

Well, in the beginning, it was easy. You're using savings or, you know, if you had to adjust your lifestyle. I was used to doing certain things, going on certain vacations, and that you had to scale back. Another difficult decision is, you know, I was married and had a young child right after, I think I was teaching for only, like, two years, three years, and it was difficult, you know, then I jumped right into a master's program. So I'm writing papers while my daughter's on the bum, Bo or a bumpy, whatever that little thing is on the table while she's just singing away and dancing. But financially, back to your question, it was difficult when there wasn't that income, and you had to get used to that standard. You know, I think my first position in Portage was $29,700 I used to make that. I'm not trying to be conceited, but I would make that in a couple of months, four months, maybe. Yes, I worked really hard for that, but my first paycheck as a teacher, I'm like, wait a minute, did they mess up? I'm like, Oh no, that's that's accurate. So to give you an idea, I went from a certain lifestyle to completely 180 and it took a while to use to. It took probably three, four years to get used to I and honestly, there's, there's a family member that I used to work with daily that I don't have any conversations with anymore because I switched. But that's, you know, that's a different story.

Nick made difficult, because other people might be seeing our career paths differently. I mean, they have the best our best interest at heart, or they think they do, but really it's there's a lot of passion that we need to consider whenever we make those big. Career decisions. When Joi and I were talking about our career changes, we didn't really talk too much about the transferable skills, but it seems like every possible skill that I learned developed in previous positions, previous jobs were needed in teaching. I mean, whether it was working in marketing with an Excel spreadsheet, who knew that I would have to master Excel spreadsheet skills for the data I was collecting on students as a teacher or any number of skills? Well, you have previous training in your career, and you did talk about the customer service part of that, but what else maybe transferred into teaching that surprised you?

I think it was just the fact of that, that you use previous skills, but not going into the teaching profession, thinking, I'm going to use x skill, y skill. It just, it comes up and you start doing things, and you realize, oh my gosh, I used to do that at my previous job. Or I'm going to go back. Let me think I could use this skill of my phone skills when I deal with the parents, or when I do a parent teacher conference, when I had to talk to an employee about they did something wrong, or they were late to work, just like a student's late to class, or an employee did something wrong, just like a student does something wrong. So it's like, you take those scenarios, and if you think back, you have flashbacks, like, oh my gosh, I'm doing the same thing. It's just this person's younger, and they're more impressionable, and I could have a bigger impact on this high school or middle school, or K through eight, you know, elementary student versus a 50 year old server at a restaurant, so to speak. So to your question, it's like everything that you've done previously can be spun and you're going to come across it in teaching. I mean teaching, as we know education, you wear every hat known to man, and you have to know when to put that head on. And as experience grows, and all three of us have a lot of experience, it's almost like instantaneous, right? You're just like, Okay, I'm this. I'm a parent today, today, I'm a disciplinarian today. I'm the funny guy. Things like that. I think from my pre I can't pinpoint exactly, Dr Amy, but it's like, it's almost like, just things start coming out, and after you deal with the student, you realize, oh my gosh, I used to do that at the restaurant, or I used to for athletics. I'm the athletic director. I used to order a lot of stuff for the restaurant, and that's what I do for athletics. I'm ordering equipment. I'm ordering it's building relationships with people. You

know, yeah, my analytical side comes out all the time, and Amy technical side comes out all the time from her administrative positions, and that English, I tell you. But to have someone like Amy that appreciate my Gantt charts, I love it.

So gosh, Dr Patterson's Gantt charts, I remember

well. And I wonder, do you also see a difference from an administrator's point of view, with candidates who come in with more life experience, versus someone who is more traditional age student, who is going through an undergraduate program, not to discount the youth and the traditional age student going through an initial certification program, but there might be some differences that you notice as an administrator.

I think I'm biased in this, but it feels like any educator that I work with, or I had them work for me, or even my some of my administrators were on the same career path. They didn't come as undergraduate in education. It seems like they have more tools in their toolbox to deal with adversity. I think they look at education differently, as opposed to the the person who's undergrad and then goes through the normal procedures. It's they just they run their classes differently, they they react and act differently with the parents and the students, because I think they just have that previous, prior knowledge of human beings versus this is how you teach your subject. I feel like I was given a lot of pedagogy, pedagogy, pedagogy, pedagogy, pedagogy, but then you get into class, no one tells you how to run your class, how to behave with the children, how to build relationships. That's through baptism of fire. But if you had previous careers where you're doing something similar, you're already ahead of that person who just got out of college, who just finished student teaching, in my opinion, you are ahead of the game because you have something to look back on, to fall back on, to draw, to use in that instance, instead of going to a textbook, so to speak. Right?

I totally agree we are talking to Nick pizzuto and. And we're on the topic of career changers. Nick, I agree, some of the best teachers have been career changers. I would say, if I compare the two career changers were our best candidates, and that's what we constantly got from administrators. You take their maturity, you take their the skills that they come with, whether they're coming from the industry or wherever they're coming from, and like you said, you take their relationship that they have just as adults, and many of them are parents, so you take all of that, and that makes for a great teacher. We're really right now. We're trying to attract career changers. We have we're in the midst of this huge teacher shortage like we've never seen nationwide. We had a teacher shortage, and now due to COVID, that shortage has just amplified, and I know that you're experiencing it on your end too, and so we're really trying to capture those career changers at Governor state, and we're tailoring our a lot of our programs to meet the needs of career changers. What hybrid programs and evening programs? So I have a question for you sure, what were the elements about the program that prepared you, that made it possible for you to earn a license to teach.

Well, the program I went through, first of all, it flexed with my schedule, like we talked about earlier in a Saturday, I say all day, but it didn't seem bad once you got there. It that I couldn't do nights at the time. So I searched high and low, and the program I was in allowed for a Saturday. I think you're gonna have to be very flexible, obviously, the weeknights, but I think a Saturday would probably fit in great for those that are have a really busy family life and can't, like, jump to a class or go in person. I think the online aspect needs to be there. I know when I went to my program, was it 15 years ago,

I was closer to 20

younger. The aspect of online learning was in its infancy, so it wasn't really. It was more of like the brick and mortar. But what I'm seeing, I think if Governor state could give the option of Saturday brick and mortar or weeknights to traditional and still have some kind of online component, or make it all online, would benefit a lot of career changers, because as I was going through it, I was lucky enough to where I could quit do student teaching full time and not get paid. I don't know too many people who can do that. The previous career I had, I could still jump back and forth and make some income here and there. While I was going through the program, student teaching took up my day. But in a restaurant business, there's nothing really to do in a day. I was more active 330 to midnight, weekends till 2am so I was able to juggle and still get some kind of income. So if a career changer has to totally like, leave that, and especially when a student teach, then, you know, there's going to have to be some kind of, I don't know.

Yeah, we're finding that more and more, and Dr Amy's program and other programs, we're learning that we have to be more flexible to meet the needs of the students, to meet the needs of schools, right? We need teachers. We need dynamics, and we're finding them all over the place, but we have to meet their meet them where they are,

right? And there's tons of people that I know that are in other careers that would probably love to get an education. They just don't know how to do that. When I was searching, it was like, I just lucked out, and my uncle knew someone that worked at the college that had a program, and I just got on the phone, and voila, you know, the rest is history. Now there's a lot more programs. I mean, Governor state, obviously, if, if I was a in a career and I want to get education, I guess you have to make it to where it it's easier on me to get the courses. I guess if what I'm saying because it's difficult, the stigma of being a teacher, I think, is kind of like gone down. You know what I mean? Like, it's more people I think, want to be teachers. It's just like, they don't know how to get into the profession because they didn't get an undergrad in education. I still hear some of the people like, well, I don't have an undergrad in education. I can't get a license. I'm like, Are you kidding me? I said it should be easier now more than ever. And it is. There's, there's some other programs. It just you have to reach out and find those individuals and then like you just have to survey them and say, how do we help you become a teacher

in the Illinois State Board of Education and many universities are making it easier to use work and life experience to you. To show that you can earn college credit, our learning assessments and portfolios, that that people can try, that can be used to show that you can get a transcript of course, and that prior learning can help you get your license. I wonder about what listeners who might be considering a career change to teaching. What do you wish you had known before making a career change decision, knowing what you know now?

Well, I mean, I wish I would have known a little bit more how the classroom works, and, like, the grading, and there's power school, there's teacher ease, there's so many different programs, and it's like, I just wanted to teach those kids that were in front of me and give them the knowledge that I had. And it's like, I wish someone would have gave me some skills on, like, the programs on how to integrate, because I was I got a mentor teacher, but that mentor wasn't that good in beginning. And it's like I felt like the technology was slowing me down because I didn't know how to use things, and I wasn't I can teach, and I felt great about teaching, and it's like time to enter grades. I get evaluated. What is that I knew about that? I'm not saying I didn't know what an evaluation was, but I didn't know the process. You know, it scared me, like, wait a minute, after four years, I'm tenured, what does tenure really mean and stuff like that. I think if you give them more of of, like, a background of that. And I really, to be honest with you, I think career changers have a lot of pedagogy of how the world works and how business works and how things work in general, and then give them a little more information. Of this is, how, yeah, how?

The politics,

oh my gosh, yeah, politics of school.

I think when

command works and like, you know, don't worry about your starting salary. There's after school activities you can join. There's bus duty, there's lunch duty, there's ways to increase your income, and it's not as bad as you think when they offer you a salary of, let's say 44,000 you could turn it into 54,000 by coaching one sport and working bus duty,

right? Didn't

know any of that. Yeah, yep. I didn't know any of that when I started. I mean, it's just you don't, obviously, we all went to school, but you don't think like, Oh, I didn't know. My golf coach made $3,500 just to watch me golf. I didn't know my baseball coach made $7,000 to throw me batting practice. I mean, that adds up. I didn't know all that stuff when I started.

Yeah, I think those things are really good to know to help them navigate through that. The good thing is, at least in our state, the starting salary is $40,000 across the board. So that's a good thing to elevate teachers, but you're right. There's so many opportunities to earn more money. And like yourself, you took your leadership skills and you applied them to education, to become an administrator, you know, to become a director, and then an administrator, in principle, all of those things right

now the athletic director, which is, you know, it's pretty fun, because I'm a sports guy. I played ball in college, so I really enjoy what I do. I'm not going to lie. There's days that just everything goes wrong, and there's days everything goes right, but that's just life. I mean, no matter what profession you're in, you get the same kind of days you just gotta you get lemons make lemonade. I hate the old cliche, but that's how I do it. So like today, we had some some issues at school, and they always call me, not because I'm better than anybody else. It's this guy. I never get angry. The kids are like, I can't believe you're not mad at me. I'm like, I'm disappointed.

Now. Are you that way at home with your children?

Don't talk so loud. My wife might hear you. I'll admit I sometimes I do take my frustrations out at home, and that's wrong. I've gotten better, and I try and just like, as soon as I walk through the door that school, schools outside, and my home life is my home life that

goes into that when we're talking about the politics of teaching, being an educator too. It took me a long time to learn that too, to give it 100 you know, I give it 100 110% when I'm at work, and then when I leave work, leave work and go home, because you can actually burn yourself out as an educator. And we're losing lots of educators because they are burned out, because they're taking their work home with them. So work really hard, like you said, when you're at work, and when you get home, do home so that you can appreciate that, and you can appreciate home. And then when you get back into the classroom or your administrative role, you can appreciate that.

I think that goes especially for the early educator. Early career folks will take bags of papers home. I did. They took a nice little round trip with me in my car. And then. There's this weight of guilt because I didn't get to every paper or I didn't give enough feedback, but at some point you have to have family, you have to have other activities in your life. Totally agree, there

are points. I mean, when I was teaching before I got an administration, I'm like, Why did I do this again? This is every job, though. Like, when I'll have some young teachers, I know we have a male teacher just started 25 he was all into teaching, no previous career. He's like, how do you guys do this for this long? I'm like, we asked ourselves the same questions when we were your age. I said, don't worry about it. I said, you know, you have great days, you have good days, you have some bad days. But that's life. I don't care where you go work, if you sell insurance or you're a doctor, you have good days, you have great days, you have bad days. It's just life, and then you have to adjust to that. But what I told them is you're shaping individuals. You're shaping people that are going to grow and do great things, and you never know at the dinner table, 20 years from now, someone's going to be like, you know, remember Mr. Pizzuto? He did X, Y and Z. I remember teachers. I'm sure you two remember teachers when you're going to school that impacted that that teacher may or may not remember us, but we remember that teacher. I

want to talk a moment about that 25 year old teacher who says, How can you do this for so long? Tell us about some of your professional goals, and how have you switched directions occasionally during your teaching career, to branch out or to add variety to your education roles.

Yeah, because Nick you've been in multiple schools, you've been in multiple positions. You have been called upon to do a variety of things. You've gotten a reputation of being good at what you do.

I appreciate that. Thank you. Dr Patterson, yeah, I've been to, well, let me count real fast, 1235, different schools. I started at high school, switched over to a new high school. Then I went to been three high schools in a middle school. So I'm going backwards. Next thing, I'll be a principal of a K through three school. I hope not. That's a joke. It's just that, as every day I went to work, as you know, it's different that your class today is not the same as yesterday. That's something that I liked. It was mundane in a restaurant business, it was lucrative, but in education and goals that kept me going were, I'm making a difference. I feel good about impacting these students, not just educational wise, but giving them relationship skills, giving them people skills, giving them everyday life skills. Because, as I spoke before, some of my students would go home and have nobody to go home to, because their parents either worked night shift, rotating shift, or they only had one parent a household. I've worked with kids that were foster children. I've worked with kids that were homeless, and it just I went on the next day. I could have the hardest day in the world, but I knew if I go the next day, I don't know who I'm going to run into, who I'm going to talk to, or what I might say they might impact positively on somebody, and I didn't want to miss that opportunity. So in a nutshell, I mean, those are the things that kept me going. I'm not going to lie. There are days I'm like, I'm going to pick up and call my uncle and say, hey, when do you need me back at the restaurant? Obviously, I never did that because I'm still here. But what I could express to other people is, every day is going to be a challenge, it's going to be good, it's going to be great, and it might be bad, but that's life, and it happens everywhere. And stick with this profession, because you make greater impacts as an educator, as an administrator, a counselor, anything you do with youth today that's in a positive it just it swells and it grows. You don't even know the impact you're making on individuals,

yeah, and if I can make one observation, I think with career changers, when you are together in your class, when you're a cohort, you see all the different elements of your classmates, because They all are coming as career changers, right in your particular situation, so you see all of their skills and their life experiences. And so there's a the networking is a bit different, as opposed to someone that's starting off in education, 1819, years old in college. You know, we're all starting off from the same place. We don't know much. When you're a career changer, you see all these different facets taking place in your classroom, and you guys are looking at it with different eyes. And then you network. And then I know you that you called upon those same people throughout your career, right to. Help you with different aspects that you were going through. There's

still a person I still have contact with for my cohort back in the day, he wasn't actually in my cohort. I came back to teach his cohort, but I still talked to him. And he was in accounting. And I remember another girl in the cohort, I think she was, she was like a bartender or something like that. But it was good because they bring experiences. You learn from them. You tell them your experience. They learn from you. Then we get all this history and Vygotsky and all these other great guys, right? Get your pedagogy going, and then you go into the classroom. And I feel as if, like I said before, I'm biased those individuals that are career changers seem to be more prepared for the adversary or adverse the problems that you see in the classroom. That's the way I feel. I've, I've seen that deer in headlight look from the person that just got out of student teaching or is going into student teaching. When I went into student teaching, it was just like, this isn't that hard. I mean, I'm not trying to be cocky or conceited, but it got a lot harder, obviously. But I just related to those, those children, like I related to the employees, and it seems to be working. I've been doing this quite a long time.

Well, you've been doing quite well at it, and it has been a pleasure talking to you and hearing about your hearing your story and how you made the change and your encouragements to people to get into the profession, because that's what we're here for, is to spread the word about teaching, talk about education, talk about the trends, and shine a light on the great work that's being done.

I agree. I mean, for anybody that listens or a career changer, you do make a difference. Every day is a different day. That's what I like about education. If yesterday was bad, the next day could be great, and you're making a difference. I know everybody says, Oh, you make a difference. You really do. You don't understand how deep of an impact you make on even just one child, because that person is right now talking at home 10 years later about you and the little things you did in your class and how it helped them get over a hump, or or they were stuck on a reading assignment that you showed them a shortcut or some kind of way to get to an answer. And they keep using that throughout their life. And then they have children, they tell them the same thing, and career changers need to understand that's a huge impact that you're making on that one person and you're dealing with 20 to 30 students per day.

Well, Nick, I'm certainly glad that you're still making a huge impact. Thank you for being my goal to for a lot of things, including professional development and providing continuous learning for educators with MTI. So thank you very much for your contribution,

not a problem. Dr Patterson, I appreciate you guys putting me on the podcast, and I appreciate the questions and your time and Dr Patterson, one quick shout out. Thank you very much for holding my hand in the beginning and making sure I didn't run out of the building.

Well, you supplied us with enough. Mastaccioli, I remember you were a favorite of everyone.

Oh my gosh yes.

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