Artwork for podcast META Business
33. China Crypto Ban, Web3 Gaming Console, Axie Infinity Hack, Nike NFT, Shanghai Metaverse Investment
Episode 3311th July 2022 • META Business • Holodeck Media
00:00:00 00:36:33

Share Episode

Shownotes

In this episode, we discuss fake LinkedIn Posts & DAO permissions leading to an Axie Infinity hack, the world's first NFT/web3 gaming console coming out in 2024, a new patent hints at Nike getting into NFT gaming, Chinese companies banning cryptocurrencies, Shanghai investing in the metaverse and so much more!

Episode 33 Keywords: fake LinkedIn Posts, DAO permissions, Axie Infinity hack, NFT/web3 gaming console, 2024, patent, Nike, NFT gaming, Chinese companies, cryptocurrency ban, Shanghai, metaverse

Transcripts

Unknown:

Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

Unknown:

Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

Unknown:

revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

Unknown:

prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

Unknown:

you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

Unknown:

what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

Unknown:

From the boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

Unknown:

business podcast. I am Paul the profit that will lead me. I'm

Unknown:

joined today by my friend and co host, Jeff the juice Cohen,

Unknown:

those of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast

Unknown:

of the metaverse. What we do is we cover the most pressing,

Unknown:

Metaverse, topics and news of the week. But we look at all of

Unknown:

it through a business and C suite lens, we dissect, we

Unknown:

analyze the business implications of everything

Unknown:

happening in this industry. For our regular listeners. Thank you

Unknown:

guys for tuning in every week. Thank you for all the love. If

Unknown:

you haven't already, go leave a review on the podcast a five

Unknown:

star review. Tell everyone how much you love it. It's how other

Unknown:

people discover the podcast and please share the podcast with a

Unknown:

friend with a colleague if you're big into web three big

Unknown:

into Metaverse shared with all the people you know, and and we

Unknown:

appreciate it. Jeff, how you doing this week? I'm good. I

Unknown:

just got back from a week long trip to Paris. So I finally feel

Unknown:

like I'm a little bit rested. I actually moved into my new house

Unknown:

yesterday. Although currently there are only there we are

Unknown:

about 50% moved in now we still have a bunch of little stuff to

Unknown:

do. So I'm still a bit of a nomad in law's basement. But I'm

Unknown:

hoping by next week, this time we will be officially in and

Unknown:

then I can kind of put my feet up for like an hour and relax.

Unknown:

It's been a long month as a nomad some extent. I will say

Unknown:

I'm hoping by next week also, I will be back to proper studio

Unknown:

setup. So people should sort of apologies for the last few weeks

Unknown:

because you know, we're both in transit and in transition, and

Unknown:

hopefully be back to sort of the audio quality that people would

Unknown:

come to expect and things like that. But I was going to ask

Unknown:

you, are you fluent in French now? Like, there's no no issues?

Unknown:

No, no, but I do know how to say croissant ate a lot. I had a lot

Unknown:

of croissants, a lot of ham and cheese. I had a lot of Italian

Unknown:

food too, which I'm sure will not shock you, Paul, or anyone

Unknown:

who's listening who knows me. But I had a lot of Italian for

Unknown:

you. You may have missed the boat on that one. I mean, it may

Unknown:

be better opportunities for other cuisines in France. But

Unknown:

as long as you as long as you were happy you had a good time.

Unknown:

But you missed not you didn't miss what's happened while you

Unknown:

were away. And I think we need to break it down as we always

Unknown:

do. And I think we need to start with a story that we touched on,

Unknown:

in fact on a previous episode, and that was the XE infinity

Unknown:

hack. And finally, more details have come out in terms of how

Unknown:

this all happened, how it all went down, so to speak. And the

Unknown:

headline in this article is AXIe infinity hack committed via fake

Unknown:

LinkedIn posts, and Tao permissions. So x infinities

Unknown:

Ronin bridge hack started with a fake LinkedIn job offer

Unknown:

according to this article. And according to the US government,

Unknown:

the culprit was Lazarus group, which is a North Korean group of

Unknown:

hackers. Obviously 625 million was stolen. And the way they did

Unknown:

it was they set up fake LinkedIn accounts with fake job offers.

Unknown:

And Lord in AXIe infinity employees with promises of you

Unknown:

know, big salaries, big, extremely generous compensation

Unknown:

packages, to attract the employees. And then as part of

Unknown:

this job process, they did fake interviews. And and were sent a

Unknown:

PDF file, which was supposed to be the job offer.

Unknown:

And ended up being essentially the the file that hacked their

Unknown:

PCs. And by getting four of the nine validators of the ronin

Unknown:

network, they were able to get control of the network and steal

Unknown:

$625 million. So

Unknown:

you would think

Unknown:

to steal 625 million this would have been a massively

Unknown:

sophisticated you know, like you see in the movies, kind of

Unknown:

operation and reality it was just some basic social

Unknown:

engineering of LinkedIn. I'm curious what you think about

Unknown:

this one? Well, we had known it was social engineering but this

Unknown:

that level of detail here is is entertaining a funny and also

Unknown:

like a little bit scary because it's like it you can see a lot

Unknown:

of people falling for this right like I don't want you got to

Unknown:

feel bad for the guy who fell for this. Like I'm like imagine

Unknown:

going back into the work the next day. I mean, I don't know

Unknown:

if he still works there. I probably assume no, but like,

Unknown:

going back and be like, yeah, so not only was I looking for

Unknown:

other job, I also caused us to lose 625.

Unknown:

But having said that, like, it's not that outrageous to think

Unknown:

that, you know, if you're on the if you're an early member of sky

Unknown:

maybes team, I'm sure you are incredibly skilled. You were

Unknown:

very early to, you know, the metaverse early to crypto early

Unknown:

to plan on gaming. So it stands to reason that you probably do

Unknown:

have a lot of job offers coming your way, at extremely lucrative

Unknown:

compensation, like, I wish I wish we got more detail on that,

Unknown:

because I'd be very interested to see like, what are we talking

Unknown:

ridiculous numbers, like someone's like, Hey, you're

Unknown:

gonna make $18 million a year or, you know, something? Like,

Unknown:

I'm very curious to know what that actual number they were

Unknown:

kind of dangling there was, but it's not that original. It

Unknown:

sounds like they went through a very, like, reasonable interview

Unknown:

process. They still were incredibly prepared. As as

Unknown:

hackers to like, put that much effort into it. You had to

Unknown:

obviously, I assume make a website like you've probably had

Unknown:

to put a lot of effort into, because anyone who's getting a

Unknown:

job offer they're gonna Google okay, what is this company do?

Unknown:

Where are they? Are they on LinkedIn, they have employees.

Unknown:

So I assume that all of that kind of backstory had to be

Unknown:

there.

Unknown:

So you know, maybe they earned their 625 million just a little

Unknown:

bit. But

Unknown:

at the heart of it, honestly, I think it's a humorous story for

Unknown:

us on the outside. But it's also a cautionary tale, both for

Unknown:

employees, like do your due diligence, and your if you're in

Unknown:

this web three world and you're getting job offers, because if

Unknown:

it sounds too good to be true, it may actually be too good to

Unknown:

be true.

Unknown:

And then the other reason for caution is for companies like

Unknown:

maybe don't have it so that one employee can effectively break

Unknown:

down your entire security system if you're going to use a

Unknown:

permissionless blockchain and irreversible transactions on a

Unknown:

on a distributed ledger, like, like

Unknown:

mine. But yes.

Unknown:

That topic I think has been covered a lot and I think

Unknown:

actually are in time Amis have done a lot in since then to

Unknown:

bolster that security have have more nodes and have it be a bit

Unknown:

a bit less penetrable.

Unknown:

But yeah, I think that those are my takeaways. I'm curious what

Unknown:

you think. No, I like where you went with it. Like there's not

Unknown:

that much to break down here. It's sort of a funny,

Unknown:

interesting story.

Unknown:

There's not much like business discussion around it. I do think

Unknown:

there, you're where you're spot on is it's a bit of a cautionary

Unknown:

tale. And I think anything that touches the crypto world, people

Unknown:

sometimes have a false sense of security, right? Like it's

Unknown:

crypto, but it's in the world, right? It's by its nature

Unknown:

supposed to be very secure and,

Unknown:

you know, impenetrable, and, and in reality, and I think in the

Unknown:

context of Metaverse, this is truly where it's a cautionary

Unknown:

tale. And people need to be thinking about this as we build

Unknown:

out meta versus, and there's more at risk than even $625

Unknown:

million dollars, right? Where potentially there's billions,

Unknown:

trillions flowing through meta verses.

Unknown:

That anytime you have a human link in the chain, it's

Unknown:

vulnerable, right? Like you can have all the security in the

Unknown:

world, you can have as much cryptography as you want. You

Unknown:

can, you can have as many nodes, you can do all these things. If

Unknown:

you have a human being in the chain, there's a vulnerability.

Unknown:

And I don't think there's any way of ever getting around that.

Unknown:

And this is a pure, perfect demonstration of that, right?

Unknown:

Like, you can have this Fort Knox of digital security, but

Unknown:

you can easily manipulate the human brain, fortunately, or

Unknown:

unfortunately, and, you know, let's hope that this doesn't

Unknown:

happen again and that there are good lessons learned and people

Unknown:

are really careful next time but I think it's easy to say that

Unknown:

this will happen again in some capacity somewhere.

Unknown:

But good to be good to be in the know.

Unknown:

Let's move on let's talk about Polian Pulliam. This story was

Unknown:

interesting, Jeff, because he remember you and I talked about

Unknown:

the first web three phone. I think this calling themselves

Unknown:

the headline here introducing poleon One, the first web three

Unknown:

gaming console. And so what they're trying to do is

Unknown:

essentially here, I'll summarize the article create a console

Unknown:

that is capable of running games that are built on different

Unknown:

blockchains. So whether it's immutable X or Solana or

Unknown:

Aetherium, or polygon, or wax, or b&b, iOS harmony lists all

Unknown:

these.

Unknown:

You don't need to switch networks. You can run all these

Unknown:

games on all these blockchains from this console. And the idea

Unknown:

is to make it easy to use. It says for a traditional gamer who

Unknown:

doesn't understand web three. So the idea here is to bring mass

Unknown:

adoption of web three with this piece of hardware.

Unknown:

The gaming console says it says is designed with a fingerprint

Unknown:

scanner. So there is this level of security and it's integrated

Unknown:

With its own wallet, so you can make transactions when the

Unknown:

console is running.

Unknown:

Other than that, it looks very much like the controller looks

Unknown:

like a PlayStation controller, I think. And it looks very much

Unknown:

like a standard console. The release date is pegged for q3

Unknown:

2024.

Unknown:

With the initial consoles, reserved for holders of the

Unknown:

Polian Pass, which is an FP like access, of course, there has to

Unknown:

be an NFT to access it. Yes.

Unknown:

And there was one thing I actually clicked into the

Unknown:

article or the the medium posts where the petroleum team

Unknown:

described it, and they were talking about how it was going

Unknown:

to this was going to be built by the community, which I had I had

Unknown:

a great chuckle about we always talk on our on our other

Unknown:

podcasts about Doctor disrespect and how he's, you know, his

Unknown:

company right now midnight society is building a game built

Unknown:

by the community. And it's like how do you build a game by the

Unknown:

community like it's almost impossible in corporate Daventry

Unknown:

back. Imagine building a console a piece of consumer electronic

Unknown:

hardware by the community. What do you get? Like? How is that

Unknown:

possible? What chips should we use? Let's let's run a poll in

Unknown:

our Dow to see what technology we should use. Like, it just

Unknown:

doesn't. You know, it's one of those things where it's like you

Unknown:

almost hope they're just saying that for lip service? Because if

Unknown:

they actually try to incorporate that it will be even more

Unknown:

ridiculous than them just saying it. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel pretty

Unknown:

similarly, I guess about this that I did with the phone, like

Unknown:

this all to me feels like a software solution. Like I do

Unknown:

agree that if we're if we do get to a point where web three games

Unknown:

are good enough, and people have this hunger for this, and they

Unknown:

really want them versus web two games, it will be a software

Unknown:

solution. Right? Like, I just don't see why you need a piece

Unknown:

of hardware, that and maybe it's because I'm not understanding

Unknown:

the technology enough. And you probably have better

Unknown:

understanding of this than me. So correct me if I'm wrong. But

Unknown:

what makes something a web three console? Like, why couldn't X

Unknown:

Xbox or Sony, just say, Okay, we now enable you to do this, you

Unknown:

know, crypto payments alike, to me, it's a payment, this is a

Unknown:

payment provider, that you've then wrapped into a piece of

Unknown:

hardware that you're going to have to make, it's going to cost

Unknown:

a ton of money. And you're gonna have to get into people's homes.

Unknown:

Like, what are the odds that even if people want to play

Unknown:

crypto games, they're not going to do it on this console. And

Unknown:

these crypto developers are not going to develop for this

Unknown:

console. Like we see this all the time. Like it goes back to

Unknown:

state it's a stadia again, right. It's like this may be in

Unknown:

I have a lot less confidence in this team than I did in Google,

Unknown:

in the ability to actually build technology. That you know,

Unknown:

stadia technology is good. And it failed, because didn't have

Unknown:

content. So the odds of polam one, being able to build a

Unknown:

better console and Xbox, Microsoft, Google and Nintendo

Unknown:

is just zero like it just by the way is all lose money on their

Unknown:

consoles, right? Completely zero, and they have no content

Unknown:

attached to it. No first party studios, no exclusive content.

Unknown:

So as I'm talking about a more though, the more angry and less

Unknown:

bullish, like the more bearish I'm getting,

Unknown:

I think is interesting, in one sliver of what we talked about

Unknown:

at the outset, is the fingerprint scanner. Because I

Unknown:

think there's some rationale, we're okay, like, you have the

Unknown:

hardware, you know, the fingerprint scanner. And now you

Unknown:

know, who's actually buying the NFT. Like, that could be a

Unknown:

little bit of ease of use. I'll give them that. So I'm glad you

Unknown:

came around, because I was worried there for a moment that

Unknown:

I was gonna have to really viciously disagree with you.

Unknown:

Because I think this is probably the dumbest idea maybe I've ever

Unknown:

heard, maybe in the history of ideas. There's none dumber than

Unknown:

this other than, you know, stadia, which was maybe the

Unknown:

dumbest idea of all time.

Unknown:

This one, this one is such a head scratcher. And let me just

Unknown:

address your last one. Because initially, I was thinking, yeah,

Unknown:

maybe the fingerprint scanner is like the thing that's different,

Unknown:

right like that. I get it. Like to answer your question before,

Unknown:

which is, any console any piece of general computing hardware

Unknown:

can do everything this can if the software is written for it

Unknown:

to allow it right. Like, there's no reason why Sony couldn't make

Unknown:

their PlayStation play web three games, if they didn't want if

Unknown:

they wanted to.

Unknown:

The fingerprint scanner is sort of a unique thing.

Unknown:

But I can tell you this Sony and Xbox like Microsoft could easily

Unknown:

do this through their phone apps. In other words, you're on

Unknown:

the console, you need to you need to you know, verify,

Unknown:

validate, whatever, it'll prompt you on your phone on an app on

Unknown:

your phone, use the fingerprint scanner there, which every phone

Unknown:

has, and it'll be reflected back on the experts. This is done in

Unknown:

I've seen in many other scenarios, non gaming scenarios,

Unknown:

it works very well. So it's it's nothing really unique here. They

Unknown:

want to make consumer hardware which even the big guys like I

Unknown:

said, lose money on to play a bunch of really horrible games.

Unknown:

Today

Unknown:

makes no sense to me like, Well, why would you go make hardware

Unknown:

for this and, and their their stated goal also makes no sense

Unknown:

to me it says, We want to make like they want to build this to

Unknown:

make it easy to use for traditional gamer who doesn't

Unknown:

understand web three. I can guarantee you that traditional

Unknown:

gamer, when December rolls around, and it's Christmas, and

Unknown:

they're going to buy a console, they're going to look at the

Unknown:

shelf and go x Xbox, PlayStation, or polio or

Unknown:

whatever.

Unknown:

I wonder what's the what's the button purchase decision they're

Unknown:

gonna make? Like, let's this is only going to be for the most

Unknown:

hardcore of web three gamers, which is such a small group of

Unknown:

people. It's laughable.

Unknown:

I don't know, this is why this is still a PC, they probably

Unknown:

better off using a PC. Yeah. So in your mind is this Do we ever

Unknown:

after this story? Will we ever talk about the poem? One console

Unknown:

again? Do you think we'll hear hear more about it? Do you think

Unknown:

they'll announce exclusive games didn't go announce a nother

Unknown:

first party studio? Do you think they'll get more funding getting

Unknown:

it'll ever happen or not? We will hear about them again, a

Unknown:

year from today, where they're laying off the whole team. And

Unknown:

unfortunately, the project is canceled. That's that's when

Unknown:

we'll hear about them.

Unknown:

This has no future beyond that. If they manage to sell these

Unknown:

10,000 NF T's like lay there, there is a history of like

Unknown:

consoles that sold an initial run and then disappeared sort of

Unknown:

into oblivion. So maybe they make a few of them, and a few

Unknown:

people get them. And then no one ever talks about it ever again.

Unknown:

You just I just don't. I think it's a horrible idea. And it's

Unknown:

an unfortunate waste of people's time and resources.

Unknown:

All right, let's let's move on. Let's you mentioned I wanted to

Unknown:

actually skip ahead. I had a different order here. But you

Unknown:

mentioned Doctor disrespect.

Unknown:

And the doc is obviously a big fan of his I'm a big fan of what

Unknown:

he's accomplished in the gaming space. And

Unknown:

there's a story here which ties back to him. And it's an

Unknown:

interesting sort of NFT slash Metaverse story also. And the

Unknown:

headline here is newly published patent hints at Nike branded

Unknown:

video game NF Ts. So it says it looks like Nikes, the latest

Unknown:

company wanting to enter the NFT and video game markets with a

Unknown:

new patent filing that could include in game apparel. So

Unknown:

they talked about the world's first NFT console actually in

Unknown:

this article. But Nike has supposedly patented

Unknown:

basically integrating NF T's and a new kind of system for

Unknown:

integrating NF T's into video games. And Nike would do this by

Unknown:

court incorporating some of its branded shoes into the games. So

Unknown:

basically, you're playing a game like FIFA or Madden, and you

Unknown:

could buy Nike shoes as NF T's in those games. Now, why Nike is

Unknown:

filing this patent right now we can speculate. But what do you

Unknown:

think of Nike sort of throwing their hat in the NFT in the

Unknown:

video game ring here? Well, I mean, Nike has been pretty

Unknown:

forward, you know, on the like, I think they're they were pretty

Unknown:

early to hire someone they to be like a chief Metaverse, officer.

Unknown:

They also bought artifact. I'm pretty sure if you recall, so

Unknown:

like, and now artifact was like a digital, like a digital goods

Unknown:

more

Unknown:

designer, like almost like the Nike of the metaverse, if you

Unknown:

will. So they've definitely like kudos to them for being a big

Unknown:

company. And actually leaning into this and every step of the

Unknown:

way. I think they've been pretty smart with what they've been

Unknown:

doing. Like I think they're being aggressive, but yet also

Unknown:

like,

Unknown:

very, very focused and smart about it.

Unknown:

What was he gonna say? Let me ask you this general around. I

Unknown:

just I used to just remember my train of thought. It's a bit

Unknown:

surprising. I mean, you know, it's interesting that they're

Unknown:

doing this in sports games, because it's like, I don't

Unknown:

necessarily understand why this needs to be NFT. Right. Like

Unknown:

people are already buying digital goods in those games,

Unknown:

even shoes, right, I believe you can customize, you know, various

Unknown:

parts of your avatar, including their your clothing. So like,

Unknown:

why does it necessarily have to be an NFT in those games? I got

Unknown:

to I don't know that I see that that there's going to be enough

Unknown:

differentiation where you're going to need to trade them.

Unknown:

Like I think they'd be better off just selling a digital

Unknown:

version of the ship where there wasn't scarcity and it wasn't

Unknown:

connected to the blockchain. I mean, in the same way you could

Unknown:

buy a Valencia backpack the fortnight like why does it like

Unknown:

why didn't Mikey do a deal with fortnight you know

Unknown:

years ago to have Mikey close with the swoosh and you know

Unknown:

Nike backpack and Nike hat and like, like, cool Nike gear and

Unknown:

like your rights, you don't need the NFT at all.

Unknown:

It's interesting that they patent this now, they haven't

Unknown:

said that. The article mentions that the likely target is things

Unknown:

like FIFA and Madden. But you're right. Also, it doesn't

Unknown:

necessarily have to be. Here's the question I have for you.

Unknown:

Because this is the second time I heard Nike the same week, the

Unknown:

same week, and on the business of esports podcast, or our

Unknown:

weekly new show. Specifically, I should mention, we talked about

Unknown:

a story where

Unknown:

Dr. disrespect, who's a very well known gamer streamer on

Unknown:

YouTube.

Unknown:

He hinted we don't know if it's not confirmed, he hinted at the

Unknown:

idea that he was going to make a shoe with Nike, right? Like a

Unknown:

doctor disrespect shoe with Nike.

Unknown:

What do you think today sells better? The doctor disrespect X

Unknown:

Nike real shoe. Or if they do a an NF T shoe. And I think we'd

Unknown:

have to qualify the NF tissue where it is right? Because I

Unknown:

think it matters if it's in some random web three game versus if

Unknown:

it's in fortnight, or,

Unknown:

or FIFA or something like that. Right.

Unknown:

So but I'm curious how you break that how you would break that

Unknown:

tie? It's a great question. I,

Unknown:

my initial reaction was that the real shoe would do better. And I

Unknown:

think I will stick to that. But your last point about depending

Unknown:

on where it is, like I think if Dr. Disrespect put a Nike shoe

Unknown:

into fortnight that was branded Dr. disrespect, I think it would

Unknown:

sell very well, at a much lower cost. So you would sell more

Unknown:

shoes, but you would probably make less revenue, but you might

Unknown:

make more profit. So it was a little kind of like there was a

Unknown:

lot of nuance there. As a collector, what do I think? And

Unknown:

I guess this is this is another angle? What do I think would be

Unknown:

worth more a year after you purchased it? I think the

Unknown:

physical doctor disrespect shoe has a decent chance of becoming

Unknown:

a cool collector's item that people were fans might buy and

Unknown:

trade. I think the virtual NFT would be worth almost nothing

Unknown:

after people bought it. Unless there was an extreme amount of

Unknown:

scarcity and they sold two of them or something. And I tell

Unknown:

you why I hate the NFT because I I'm thinking about my own

Unknown:

question. And here's how I would have done it. Here's here's I

Unknown:

think the best case scenario, right?

Unknown:

They Nike launches the shoe with Dr. If I'm Nike I'm the CEO of

Unknown:

Nike tomorrow, and launch a shoe with Dr. disrespect, right? If

Unknown:

you buy the shoe, you buy the shoe, the real life shoe, you

Unknown:

get a code that allows you to get the same shoe in game in

Unknown:

pick the game that doctor disrespect plays the most like

Unknown:

Call of Duty, let's say right? Something like that some some

Unknown:

piece of Nike apparel and Call of Duty.

Unknown:

Only if you buy the shoe and every crypto person because you

Unknown:

could make it an NF t right? Like if you buy the real shoe

Unknown:

you give people an NF T. But like I think your average 12

Unknown:

year old couldn't care less about the NFT. And what I hate

Unknown:

about the NFT is all that will encourage that it's it's trade

Unknown:

ability. It's going to encourage scalpers to go buy all the

Unknown:

shoes, right? And then and then sell them at ridiculous prices,

Unknown:

as opposed to if you buy the shoe. And it's a code to

Unknown:

download the in game skin with no ability to trade or resell

Unknown:

it. Right. Like I guess with a code you potentially could but

Unknown:

it's more difficult, right? If you lock people in without the

Unknown:

ability to trade freely. I sort of feel like there's benefits in

Unknown:

this case. But then you're just turning it into like a digital

Unknown:

drop. Like we've seen this in fortnight for years. And I don't

Unknown:

disagree with you. I think that

Unknown:

generally, yeah, I'm fully agree. I liked the idea.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. They didn't do this.

Unknown:

I bought a Samsung phone. I can't remember which galaxy one

Unknown:

it was. But there it was, maybe the one from two years ago. I

Unknown:

bought the phone because with it, you got the exclusive Galaxy

Unknown:

skin in fortnight. But only if you bought the phone, which I

Unknown:

thought was cool. It was unique, right? And you couldn't get the

Unknown:

skin any other way.

Unknown:

I just I really challenge the crypto people who listen to the

Unknown:

podcast to think through the benefits of some of these

Unknown:

technologies to the end user because it's not well

Unknown:

articulated. And if if we don't see it, clear as day and Ken

Unknown:

articulated clear as day to the average 12 year old Right? Or

Unknown:

the average 65 year old on the other end of it

Unknown:

I think I think it's all a bit of fluff, right? Like I'm Nike,

Unknown:

I feel like has better things to do.

Unknown:

However, I do see a Metaverse universe world where you can buy

Unknown:

everything Nike you can buy in the Nike store. But for your

Unknown:

avatar like, to me, that's a no brainer. The technologies that

Unknown:

uses I sort of don't care.

Unknown:

Well, that's the whole point. The benefit then becomes why

Unknown:

does there need to be a blockchain? Why does it need to

Unknown:

be secondary tradable?

Unknown:

Right, and I do see that that that increases values because

Unknown:

you know, you're more likely to buy something you think you

Unknown:

could trade it. I just think the entire ethos of the metaverse

Unknown:

currently and the blockchain gaming world. It's all

Unknown:

financialization, where it's like, people aren't buying that

Unknown:

because they want it they're buying because they thought the

Unknown:

price will go until and maybe it's happening because maybe

Unknown:

this this is all getting washed out of the system a little bit

Unknown:

because people are, you know, prices have come down and FTE

Unknown:

sales have come down. But until that happens, I think I think we

Unknown:

can't move forward to really get like the capital and Metaverse

Unknown:

because, you know, it's like, every day when I go shopping, I

Unknown:

don't buy this t shirt that I'm wearing because I'm like, Oh,

Unknown:

next week Paul's gonna come and be like, this is worth 50 pounds

Unknown:

what it is now? No, it's I bought it because I'm a any

Unknown:

clothes. And b i think it looks cool. And you know, it was the

Unknown:

right price. And if it fits, yeah, it's not like, Oh, next

Unknown:

week, I'm gonna sell it for 10. That is the wrong mentality. And

Unknown:

as long as that mentality is the current, like meta, if you will,

Unknown:

I think we can't is we can't really move forward with a lot

Unknown:

of these technologies. But take, I'm going to clip that and I

Unknown:

think we need to put that out on socials. I think it's really

Unknown:

smart. What you just said, you captured it, I think, and I

Unknown:

don't think enough people are talking about that truly.

Unknown:

All right, let's move on to our last duo of stories here, Jeff.

Unknown:

We'll put two side by side here because they're both related to

Unknown:

China. And the first one is China NF TS Tencent. An app

Unknown:

group join industry pledged to ban cryptocurrency and fight

Unknown:

speculation. So it says here in the new self discipline

Unknown:

initiative, China's biggest tech firms agreed to enforce real

Unknown:

name authentication for NFT buyers and to avoid secondary

Unknown:

marketplaces. The agreement which is not legally binding is

Unknown:

an acknowledgement from the industry of regulations that

Unknown:

already exist in China for blockchain based assets. So

Unknown:

Tencent and and croup joining the fight and China to ban

Unknown:

crypto, and if you're buying NF T's there, your real name is

Unknown:

going to be exposed and you can't resell on, you know,

Unknown:

secondary marketplaces. So lots of restrictions. And then I want

Unknown:

to put this

Unknown:

sorry, before we go, there was there's no secondary trading

Unknown:

because that wouldn't sell well. It says to avoid secondary

Unknown:

marketplaces, okay, right. Because the your because your

Unknown:

real name is associated, I guess with the NFT. Now, it

Unknown:

discourages people from reselling for fear, I guess of

Unknown:

repercussions.

Unknown:

The second story is Shanghai to ramp up support for Metaverse

Unknown:

development, Low Carbon Project smart gadgets to help China's

Unknown:

economic recovery. So Shanghai plans to establish an industry

Unknown:

fund with around one and a half billion US dollars in assets

Unknown:

dedicated to Metaverse development. It'll help Shanghai

Unknown:

Foster 10 leading companies and 100 small sized firms, which

Unknown:

could launch 100, new Metaverse, products and services by 2025.

Unknown:

That's Wow, a lot of money, a lot of conviction there a lot of

Unknown:

companies potentially. So a little bit of two opposite

Unknown:

stories here read a little bit of a dichotomy, which I think is

Unknown:

interesting. On one hand, banning crypto discouraging NFT

Unknown:

trying to kill secondary markets, right? Attaching your

Unknown:

real name to those purchases so that they can find you and do

Unknown:

something bad to you. I don't know. Like, they want real

Unknown:

transparency, which is scary in a place like China. And then on

Unknown:

the other hand, you have Shanghai, devoting billions to

Unknown:

building Metaverse stuff.

Unknown:

Explain this, Jeff, how can we have these two stories side by

Unknown:

side? Well, Paul, I want to hear your take, because I think we

Unknown:

were discussing before that you may, you may have a hammer drop

Unknown:

here. But I you know, I think just to hit a couple the high

Unknown:

points. I mean, um, you know, I think we've been calling this

Unknown:

for a while that China would probably have their own version

Unknown:

of the metaverse just because of what they've done with with the

Unknown:

internet censorship and the government. So we sort of always

Unknown:

had the feeling that like, whatever whoever was the

Unknown:

ultimate winner of the metaverse in China would probably be a

Unknown:

quasi kind of government run entity. So I'm not

Unknown:

shocked that that it's interesting, you know, not

Unknown:

shocked that Shanghai is is investing into Metaverse

Unknown:

projects.

Unknown:

That's not surprising. It is interested in talking about low

Unknown:

carbon projects. I don't know if those are necessarily the same

Unknown:

because you know, the metaverse particularly if you include

Unknown:

crypto probably is not

Unknown:

Maybe not great for the environment. So it's kind of

Unknown:

ironic that they throw that in there. The other story about the

Unknown:

censorship on the fence on that one, I mean, I think there's a

Unknown:

lot of benefits to you people using their real name on the

Unknown:

internet. I think a lot more.

Unknown:

A lot of the issues on the internet and on social media

Unknown:

would probably be decreased if more people were required to use

Unknown:

their real names and not necessarily hide behind

Unknown:

anonymous accounts or just be vile and have no no

Unknown:

consequences. So I do I do like that. To some extent. It brings

Unknown:

up an interesting point about the metaverse like, do you think

Unknown:

in the future of the metaverse? Will you be able to hide behind

Unknown:

an anonymous avatar and just be a terrible person? Or will you

Unknown:

be will it be linked?

Unknown:

And then the last piece that you know, we were tying the

Unknown:

metaverse and crypto very closely here, I'm curious, we've

Unknown:

skirted around this issue for you know, 30 episodes. Curious

Unknown:

if your thoughts on that have evolved? Like do they go hand in

Unknown:

hand? Or are they maybe not completely like a suit? Good,

Unknown:

good thoughts and good questions.

Unknown:

Let me answer the first one, which is,

Unknown:

do I think we need to use our real names in the capital M

Unknown:

metaverse? I think probably not right. In my mind. I understand

Unknown:

the benefits of doing that. But I think it also defeats the

Unknown:

purpose, right? Like if we're going to create this alternate

Unknown:

universe that we can escape into

Unknown:

tying it to who I really am, in some ways, you lose. I think

Unknown:

that a little bit of the escapism, right? Like I may want

Unknown:

to be I may be the straightest arrow, you know, boy scout in

Unknown:

the real world. But maybe in the metaverse, I want to be a

Unknown:

pirate, right? Like, I don't know, maybe I just decided I

Unknown:

want to be a pirate and

Unknown:

you know, not in the criminal sense, but you know, dress up

Unknown:

like a pirate talk like a pirate. But you know what I

Unknown:

mean? Like, just maybe that's my thing and my character and the

Unknown:

place I want to escape to. And that should be okay. Right.

Unknown:

Like, people want to go to the office on Monday shouldn't know

Unknown:

that. I'm Paul the pirate.

Unknown:

And then, on the second question, I think

Unknown:

you're right. I think it's it's an important distinction to

Unknown:

make, because I think a lot of times this does get skirted

Unknown:

around. And it's important that I think we put at least I put my

Unknown:

foot down in terms of my thinking on this, which is you

Unknown:

the metaverse can and will exist or can exist, I should say,

Unknown:

without crypto. Crypto is not a necessary component of the

Unknown:

metaverse or for the metaverse to be successful. We could

Unknown:

create holodecks, which is my vision of the metaverse, we

Unknown:

could create

Unknown:

Mark Zuckerberg vision of the metaverse we could create Ready

Unknown:

Player ones vision of the metaverse we could create snow

Unknown:

crashes vision of the metaverse like every Metaverse that people

Unknown:

have conceived and dreamt about. All of them can exist without

Unknown:

any semblance of crypto whatsoever. Crypto is not a

Unknown:

requirement. What has happened is the crypto people. And please

Unknown:

don't take any offense from this. Have co opted the

Unknown:

metaverse, because crypto people for years now have been

Unknown:

searching for their killer app. The thing that brings crypto to

Unknown:

the mainstream, and they're desperate in this search, right?

Unknown:

Because crypto was supposed to put all the banks out of

Unknown:

business, and it hasn't yet. Crypto was supposed to put you

Unknown:

know, all government treasury like all the the economic sort

Unknown:

of foundations of governments out of business. He was supposed

Unknown:

to make paper currency go away, right? Like the promise of

Unknown:

crypto, while I do believe will be realized has not yet been

Unknown:

realized. And so crypto people over the years have gotten antsy

Unknown:

and are looking for that killer app. And all of a sudden,

Unknown:

Metaverse and gaming are the hottest things on the planet.

Unknown:

And so the crypto people like Wow, well, we can do that.

Unknown:

Right. And let's just we've ourselves into that narrative.

Unknown:

And, and they don't have to exist in that narrative. They've

Unknown:

they've chosen to exist in that narrative. And people have put

Unknown:

them together, because the conversations get muddled a bit,

Unknown:

but I'm here to say, I feel very firmly about this. The Metaverse

Unknown:

can exist without crypto. I think if anything, crypto will

Unknown:

end up being just like the payments layer for the metaverse

Unknown:

because it makes sense. It's digital first and things like

Unknown:

that. But I can see how China can refuse one and accept the

Unknown:

other because they are different than distinct and it's

Unknown:

interesting that China has sort of taken the stance, anti crypto

Unknown:

anti NFT pro metaverse.

Unknown:

I don't know if you agree.

Unknown:

I totally agree. I

Unknown:

I think that was incredibly well said, clip that throw that on

Unknown:

all the hot takes. No, I don't have much more than that. I

Unknown:

think that was really well said. I think it it's been something

Unknown:

we've been flirting around and trying to, you know, really put

Unknown:

together our our comprehensive like ideology and then you know

Unknown:

as maybe these thoughts can change I know that that's that's

Unknown:

your your thoughts you know, maybe Maybe mine will change at

Unknown:

some point. But

Unknown:

I think right now what you said is absolutely right. It's crypto

Unknown:

latching on because they're looking for a killer app and

Unknown:

they haven't found one yet. I think that was like a spike that

Unknown:

really resonated with me. But look, I would love I would love

Unknown:

to hear what our listeners think or viewers think I would love

Unknown:

their opinions. If you disagree. That's even more fun. And that

Unknown:

wraps up this week's podcast, Jeff So as always, thank you

Unknown:

guys, thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in every

Unknown:

week don't forget subscribe to the podcast, hit the subscribe

Unknown:

button on whatever podcast platform you get this, share the

Unknown:

your favorite episode with a friend. Share it on social

Unknown:

media. We really appreciate it. That's how it's continued to

Unknown:

grow. And go follow Jeff on Twitter because he's got all

Unknown:

kinds of hot takes all the time at Jeff Cohen 23 Don't forget,

Unknown:

and the most important thing guys, the future is fun. We'll

Unknown:

see you next week. Thanks for joining us here on meta

Unknown:

business. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast everywhere you

Unknown:

get your podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your

Unknown:

friends, family and colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to

Unknown:

follow metta TV on all socials to get more of the best

Unknown:

Metaverse content anywhere. Tune in every week for another

Links