In this special CLOC Talk Live from CGI 2026 episode, host Jeremiah Kincannon sits down with Lucy Bassli, founder and CEO of InnoLaw Group and former in-house attorney at Microsoft and Snowflake, to discuss the top priorities for GCs in 2026, with a focus on AI adoption, governance, and the tension between mandating AI use and actually modeling it as a leader. The conversation covers practical strategies for legal ops teams to help GCs navigate AI implementation, change management, and the cultural shift required to treat AI less like a tool and more like a working resource.

Tune in for actionable insights on leading AI adoption, driving meaningful change, and preparing your legal team for what's next.

But first, my name is Jeremiah Kincannon. I'm with Qualitas Consulting Group, but I help out with the Clock Talk podcast, and I'm part of that group and helping with that because I love these conversations. And I'm gonna hand it over to Lucy just to introduce yourself a little bit, that way we can get into the conversation at hand.

Sure. Yeah. So great to be here. This is I don't know what number of clock. I was at the very first one- Yeah ... and, and many following that for years, so it's been fun watching it all change and evolve over time. So my name's Lucy Bostlee, and I run a niche consultancy called Innolaw Group. We do legal operations consulting, but our sweet spot is contracting, improvement, automation, modernization, and all the -tions.

Yeah. But before that, I spent a bulk of my career, 13 plus years in-house at Microsoft and at Snowflake. Mm. Commercial transaction attorney by background, but a legal operations nerd at heart. So I get to bring the two together and, and work with corporate law departments of all shapes and sizes now. No, that's fantastic.

Not to be a little repetitive, but I'm sure we've all heard of ... What is that A- AI? What, what is that thing called? AI. I don't know. AI. Everybody's talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. That thing. That thing is the hottest topic, of course, and that is really right now- Mm ... a top priority. It feels like above all else.

Mm-hmm. I would say year over year, copy and paste, same top two concerns I hear for sure. But- Yeah ... this year, it is not just AI usage. It is the balance, I think, between AI governance- Mm ... so the GCs who are tapped with defining governance and compliance strategies for how an entire enterprise or company is using AI- Yeah

on balance with themselves being a leader in AI usage. So they have to be the hair club president and also a client. Again, not to date myself. But they really are threading- I get the reference. Right? I get the reference. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, God, the worst time was when I quoted Seinfeld and somebody looked at me with big eyes and was like, "Oh, I think I saw a rerun of that once."

And I can't talk about that. We need therapy. So yeah, GC priorities I think is threading the needle between advisor on governance and compliance of AI- Mm ... and being a user. And, and showcasing how the legal team is using it. I think that priority's causing some interesting intellectual tensions, I would say.

Yeah. The AI piece, the legal spend, and contracting, what do you see coming up maybe within the next year or two that's maybe a different priority than it has been for the past two to three years for GCs in this space? Even over the past two, three years, just in our geopolitical climate, internationalization of all business, I think that- Yeah

legal ops, and AI is just now a new added resource that I think what has happened this year is it is now officially, or I think, or formally table stakes. It's now a part of every law department in some way. Mm-hmm. They've either initiated the journey and they're at the starting stage, or they're optimizing and testing, or they've got licenses to five different systems and they're tweaking and checking.

Yeah. So within, like, the AI space and everything, do you feel like GCs have kind of defined strategy or a way to approach implementing it into their group or- I hate to, you know, we're, if we're talking- Yeah ... about all GCs in one bucket, I would have to say no. Yeah. They're obviously leaning on their legal ops folks, if they have them.

Mm-hmm. If they have them. There are a lot of well-intended GCs who don't have the resources, they don't have legal ops, and they're- Mm-hmm ... kind of finding themselves trying to do it all. I don't think there are many strategies yet. In fact, a lot of what we're seeing is a significant gap in strategy and more of a fast move to do- Mm.

Mm-hmm ... without spending time developing a strategy, an approach, a methodology, even a philosophy towards AI. There's very much a knee-jerk reaction- Yeah ... that could lead to some bad decisions, of course. So I'd say we're falling behind on strategy. Yeah. Do you feel like that's a pressure that's coming down to them to implement the AI, or?

For sure. I think the pressure's coming down and seeping in from the bottom. So on the one hand- ... you've got the C-suite, right? Yeah. And the C-suite is like, "Well, what's legal doing?" Because guess what the C-suite sees every first example from every legal AI tool is contract review. Not to make everything be a nail to this hammer- Yeah

but I've done contracting sexy for two decades, and the reality is right now it is the number one Example of automation for layfolk, you know, people outside of legal, in general, they're using it, they're looking at it as that. So obviously the C-suite is saying, "Hey, I got an amazing law department with a really smart GC.

What are you doing with AI?" I think it's a natural first place to look on the one hand, so that's top-down. When I mean seeping in from the bottom and all around, the business, they're all using AI. Mm-hmm. They're using it on their phones. We had this discussion in the GC Priorities session, as well as in the session I did later.

The reality is, and I'm gonna say it again, you've got a bunch of teenagers having a party in your basement. And if you think you're gonna set rules around what they do, that's kind of silly, with all due respect to all the parents who try. Mm. We know that that's not a reality, and that's exactly what's happening with AI.

So the businesses, they're using AI. They're using AI to come to legal with their own thoughts already, with their own, "Hey, I chatted about this with Gemini Chat Whatever, and here it is." So that pressure is very real. And they're, by the way, doing it outside of the enterprise tools. Mm. So they are not even using their work laptops because let's say IT tried to lock it down, and they did, and you only have access to whatever they allow you to, it's in their pockets.

So why in the world would they not be using it? So I think that tension goes back to this, "Oh my God, how do we govern this, and how do we embrace it and use it ourselves at the same time?" Yeah. But there's a very real pressure. It's sandwiching the GC, and I think between the GC and probably, like, the, uh, CIO, right?

I feel like those two are under the- Mm ... most pressure to define and govern and solve and use themselves. Yeah. That's my hunch. Yeah. And I've heard a couple different perspectives and a couple different groups that people fall in. Well, a few really. But you also risk inside of that an imbalance inside of the AI piece as well.

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Thinking ahead of the curve, what would be the best way for legal ops professionals, GCs, things of that nature, to take a step back and think ahead of time about strategy- Yeah ... around the AI? Taking a step back is hard, so stop everything and let's think is not a winning approach. Not a winning approach.

Right. Yeah. So we know that doesn't work. Yeah. It certainly doesn't work in-house, 'cause the work never stops. Uh, law firms I think have some different liberties, and that's a whole other topic, and we can probably get back to it. We should circle back to one of the priorities around kind of that law firm engagement, and now what's changed because of AI- Yeah

or what's changing. But we can get to that. Stepping back is nearly impossible, so how do you in parallel show progress while developing the strategy? That's the reality, and that's what ops is really good at. We're always really good at building the plane and flying it, because that's the only world we've ever been in, right?

So I think- Yeah ... rather than kind of a stop, I think it is a slow down with the new tools, slow down with adding more tools. I love saying you probably already have access to something. Start there while you develop strategy. If you already have access to something, because likely the CIO or CTO has authorized or enabled something at the enterprise level, if we make that assumption, just stick with that.

Don't do anything else or go beyond that. Start experimenting and playing with it as you're developing a strategy in parallel. Mm-hmm. If you actually don't have anything yet, and you really don't have anything to use, and it is a bit of a free-for-all, and you're saying, "Whoa, I don't wanna do this until we develop a strategy," you probably have a little bit of time, but you still know that people are using it on their phones.

Yeah. That, again, I'm just gonna keep going back to, 'cause that is just the reality. And that's scary. That's scary. So I think the first step is, as part of the strategies, first give the people something. Give- Mm-hmm ... everybody access to some common baseline protected space, and I think that is a- Mm-hmm ... very simple enterprise license to either any of the big, pick it, Anthropic or Gemini or Copilot if you're a Microsoft shop.

That's my roots. I'm a big fan, and if you're already an Office 365 shop, don't go looking for plugins and add-ins and doohickeys. Just light up Copilot for now, suck it up for a year, and test it. And stop yourself from that desire to shop for more or learn more or add on more. Yeah. That will give you the brain space, I think, to develop a strategy, 'cause you get to experiment with it- Mm-hmm

while you're planning ahead. You can't develop a strategy for something you don't understand. Yeah, yeah. Right? You just can't. Yeah. I can't design a strategy for going to Mars. I can't. And as an attorney, you're not trained to design a strategy on the use of AI. We're not trained for that. So I think that gives you this nice balance of you gotta be able to touch it, but just pick one and experiment with a good one, a reliable brand name type of thing, in a secure, you know, environment, and design your strategy.

Yeah. And then explore more, I think. Yeah. I think that's a smart approach, too, 'cause even, like, before we dove into this, we were talking a little bit about change management- Oh, yeah ... and things like that, too, and I'm a big fan of if you can get change management practices started before you need them, then that's even better, and that's what I see with this.

If you bring in Copilot and you start getting them to use Copilot- Yeah ... and they get used to that, especially earlier adopters of AI- Yeah ... like this is their first kind of foray into it- Mm-hmm Then they're used to it, they're gonna use it more, and they may be less likely, maybe not 100%, but less likely to go on their phone- Yeah

and use ChatGPT, or use something outside of the enterprise, right? Yep, yep. When you wanna keep them governed and inside of the enterprise. Mm-hmm. So I think it's a smart strategy. Give them something- Give them something ... that's not gonna break anything. That's right. No, that's exactly right. I always use, like, examples of things that are real in life.

Kids before they're teenagers, they're younger, and you have to give them choices, or else things get a little chaotic. So it's much- Yeah ... easier when you're like, "Do you want this green vegetable or that green vegetable?" Mm-hmm. Than it is, "Hey, it's time to eat. You're hungry. What do you want?" What do you want?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this is similar, right? Everybody's hungry for AI, you're getting a lot of pressure, you're also curious about it, and don't forget, all the people at the company are also talking to their friends, and they're talking about AI. What's AI doing to your job? And AI, it's everywhere. It's such a fever pitch right now.

Yeah. Give them something to talk about. Yeah. But controlled. So something small, I would say start with that. Yeah, absolutely. I do wanna circle back real quick around kind of the bottom-up piece that we were talking about earlier- Yeah ... from legal ops up to GCs. Mm-hmm. And I'm just curious, like, in your opinion, what are ways that the legal ops team could support the GC more in meeting their priorities when it comes to this or other things?

Yeah. Legal ops is the change maker. They're the change driver, in many ways. They are the grease in the wheel that has to be there to help the GC. If the GC accomplish... You know, has a goal, and we hear this all the time, there's mandates from GCs, which is a first good step, but that is not the only job of the GC.

Yeah. So the first step is the mandate has to happen. The GC says, "Hey, we're gonna modernize, we're gonna use AI, it's here." The GC then has to demonstrate their own experiences with AI. In order to be an effective leader in today's age, you cannot be a mandator only. That is not enough. You lose your people, you lose your team.

They don't feel an authentic con- interest from the leader, and that's a problem, and we see it. We see it quite a bit in some of the, frankly, clients I've worked with, and it's a little discouraging, and it's a sad reality, and you have to be able to say it honestly because that's gonna be a game change.

It's gonna be a killer to that initiative- Yeah ... if they don't feel it. So as the ops leader- Mm ... your job's to have a really honest and tough conversation with your GC. You're gonna assume that you guys are in tight. You have to assume that ops is in tight with their GC. I sure hope so, especially if you're in a function of a chief of staff, whether you're called that or not.

If you're a right hand to the GC/CLO, whatever, you know, in the organization, you are in the job to tell the hard truth of, "Hey, GC, you're gonna have to do this, too." Mm. You may not like it, and you are too busy, I know. You're battling the board. You're battling the C-suite. The last thing you wanna do is upload a document, ask chat to take a look, but you're gonna have to do something.

So even make it personal. Don't worry about work stuff. Experiment with it in your personal life. Have it summarize an email. Mm. Have it write a funny poem about your law department at the next quarterly all-hands. Yeah. Demonstrate with some humility, make some mistakes, and share your stories. I think the legal ops function is to educate the GC that they have a slightly different job to do this time around.

This change isn't like the others. Yeah. This is happening, and it isn't in the GC's control. It isn't in the control of the company. It's- Yeah ... just going to happen. It's more than compared to kind of the shift to the cloud. The GC had a big role there and all that, but they could also say no, and they kept stuff on-prem longer than they should have, and they were still, "I like my file cabinet and all that stuff."

Mm-hmm. This is completely In fact, out of their control. That's a little bit of a new space, I think, for the C-suite in- including the GC to be in. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say as legal ops, you, you have to guide the GC- The GC ... pretty handheld white glove of what they need to do to make you effective as the change driver for their whole department.

Yeah, 100%. They have to lead. They have to lead. Yeah, 100%. And I like the taking it out into the personal space, too. Even as we're talking about within the world of business- Mm-hmm ... this is also a cultural shift- For sure ... into AI. And so it becomes even more than that. But, like, I can speak from experience, taking it out into personal life, that's led me to certain conclusions when I use it- Yep

in other ways, to where I now question the result of the AI by asking the AI. Yeah. The AI, and saying, "Hey, what did you miss- Yeah ... in the answer you just gave me?" Yeah. And it'll go back through and rethink through it. Yes. Yeah. Or if I come up with an assumption of some sort, it's like I have this and this plan, but what did I miss?

Yeah. Or what could I expand on? Or what could be great in addition? Taking that same thread, what I've told people is if you talk to it like you would talk to a new hire At any level in their career, a junior ideally, right? A junior new hire in your department, and treat it that way, not like a tool. Don't treat it like a tool.

This isn't a SaaS thing. This isn't like any other tool you actually worked with in our careers to date. Yeah. Yeah. So treat it and talk to it as if it's a person, which is weird. I know. I'm not at risk of falling in love with my AI. There's no issues I need to see a shrink about yet. Well, within this context.

That's another topic. But I've talked to GCs and stuff about this, and I see they're like, "That's weird," and, "Come on, you know, it's creating more tools. It's all about the tools." These aren't now tools. This is a new resource- Mm-hmm ... that's been added into your organization, and if you talk to it that way, it's shocking how much you learn.

Just like you're saying. I've gotten mad at mine. I've told you three times now not to look at that file. Why do you keep looking at it? And sometimes, like, because it has this title, it made me think that it was applicable, blah, blah, blah. And then it'd apologize, and it tells me how smart and right I am, which is annoying.

Yeah. Yeah. Don't keep doing that. And- You really are training it- Yeah ... in how you interact with it. So- Mm-hmm ... people have to think of it differently, and they're not, and there are still GCs out there that are putting out a mandate, and we have to, and we need AI. You know who you are. I was told I should point at that.

You know who you are. And then you get mad at the tech, and then you, you get ... yell at your ops people. Why aren't we? And I need more. That's not gonna be a winning strategy. Yeah. It's fine. You'll survive. It's corporate life at the end of it, the day, but you're not making the kind of impact you can. You're not encouraging your team.

It's a little sad, 'cause when you, especially when you have really genuinely interested and curious people in your organization- Yeah ... and you got a leader that isn't giving them the ability to really do it with authenticity. And, and I think we're gonna see a lot of tensions. I think we're gonna see a lot of, I don't wanna say fallout, but there'll be a lot of changes and movements where it's like, hey, this thing, this is the thing that's kind of breaking me.

We've heard people had career breakers trying to implement CLM. Yeah. I've heard some interesting war stories. But that's one type of tool. I think this transformation Is really gonna affect people's career paths, and not in the whole- Mm-hmm ... it's gonna do away with your job nonsense. But I think- Yeah ... it will make and redirect careers in the way people handle it.

Yeah. And I think leaders especially, GCs. Yeah. I 100% agree. And even on the CLM piece, we've talked about contract a lot. Oh, yeah. I know you have a heart for contracts and stuff. Oh, yes. But even some of the CLMs and things like that, it's a prompt behind the scenes that people are still able to work with and edit to get the information that they need, and if they don't know how to do that, then they don't get the information that they need.

That's right. Um, and so- Oh, this whole prompting, my- ... curiosity becomes the strategy, a lot of all this stuff. Yes. Curiosity plus action. Yeah. Curiosity- Curiosity plus action ... action, that's a big piece to this. GCs listening to this and everything too, we're sending out these tips so that you start doing them on your own.

But the curiosity piece, you know, when you approach AI, Copilot, things like that for the first time, it is a ask a question, assess what was delivered, and then ask another question. And then over time- Right ... start finding ways to ask better questions. But to your point, it's not like a tool where there's one input and one output.

It's a conversation that leads to what you're looking for. And it looks different every time. Yeah. Ask the same question, it's gonna answer it slightly different. Yeah. And that's a little nerve-wracking. I mean, people just aren't getting behind it. But, hey, guess what? If you ask two attorneys the same question, you're gonna get two different answers.

Two different answers. Yep. If you ask two attorneys to review a contract, you're gonna get two completely different red line versions. Yeah. And yet we're okay with that, and we're so unforgiving with AI. That's the other weird thing I'm seeing. We're so unforgiving- ... with tech and AI. Well, that was terrible.

That thing I put in and it told me, that's it, it was a once and done. Mm. Really? That's your assessment of AI as a potential and an opportunity? Dang. Yeah. And yet with humans, we're like- Yeah ... "Oh, well, it's okay. I'll explain. We need, you know, we need to train and..." Yeah. That's why I think the best analogy, and I think it lands with people, is if you really could get them to think of it as a new resource.

Yeah. It's not a human resource obviously, but it is something in between - Yeah ... tech and human, which sounds a little sci-fi, but- Absolutely. No, it makes sense. But it's true. So as we wrap things up, Lucy, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Lot of good information for people to take and use with this, so thank you again.

Appreciate you coming on Cloud9. My pleasure. Just trying to keep it real. Yep. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.