Shownotes
Join Samuel Bertram, the CEO and Co-Founder of OnePointOne and Willo Farm, on an inspiring podcast journey as he shares his vision for revolutionizing the way we grow and consume food through vertical farming. With a passionate drive to solve the world's poor nutrition problem, Samuel’s innovative approach includes a patented automated vertical farming solution called Opollo Farm and a direct-to-consumer marketing and sales business known as Willo. Discover the challenges faced by his companies, the significance of healthy competition, and their ultimate goal of promoting human and environmental well-being. Get ready to be inspired by Samuel’s unwavering dedication to making a lasting impact on our world.
Thanks to Our Sponsors
CEA Summit East - https://indoor.ag/cea-summit-east-2025/
Indoor AgCon - https://indoor.ag/
Key Takeaways
- Discover Samuel’s inspiring journey from discovering nanotechnology to founding two companies that aim to revolutionize the way we grow and consume food.
- Uncover how Samuel’s passion for vertical farming is driven by his belief that poor nutrition is the number one problem facing humanity.
- Learn about Apollo, the automated vertical farming solution integrated with cutting-edge technologies, developed by OnePointOne under a patent-protected umbrella.
- Find out how Willo, a direct-to-consumer marketing and sales business, allows members to receive fresh produce directly to their doorstep.
- Explore the company's ultimate goal of promoting human and environmental health through personalized health and diet.
- Gain insights into the challenges faced by OnePointOne, such as adapting to global macros and capital limitations.
- Understand why Samuel believes in the power of competition and the positive impact of other vertical farmingcompanies.
- Hear Samuel’s advice on the importance of demonstrating large-scale production and having patience in scaling this technology.
Tweetable Quotes
“Poor nutrition of humanity is the number one problem that faces humanity quite clearly. And so we said, how can we possibly solve that problem? And we've got to take a big swing. That the problem's. Got to be big, and the solution's got to be big. Big doesn't mean fast. There's a huge conflation between big and fast. Big and fast can exist in software. Big and fast cannot exist in hardware. So big is important to us. Fast is less important to us. So when poor nutrition came up as the biggest problem, we couldn't quite find that match on the traditional farming side, couldn't quite find that match on the greenhouse farming side.”
“I have very little internal negative speak. So I'm not negative on myself, really at all. None of those loops apply. So there's a lot more of the board game that it is now available to me to be critical. So I think it's just so fundamentally important to your improvement as a human and your ability to be efficient as an operator, to be able to look at yourself and see where you have flaws and deficiencies.”
“Our goal is human health. Our goal is environmental health. It's much wider than that. We think we have to put one foot in front of the other mate. Believe me. We have to get the first five facilities up this year, 100 facilities next year. Once that's up and running, we're hitting real volume. Then we can start to juice the Willo side of the business more. Because health is going to become personalized. It's just flat out inevitable. When is the real question and how. So Willo is going to participate in the personalization of health, the personalization of diet.”
“I reckon the best thing any vertical farming business can do for this industry and for the Earth is to demonstrate large scale production.”
Resources Mentioned
Samuel's Website - www.opo.farm
Samuel's Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuelbertram/
Samuel's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sambcbertram/
Samuel's Email - [email protected]
Connect With Us
VFP LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/verticalfarmingpodcast
VFP Twitter - https://twitter.com/VerticalFarmPod
VFP Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/direct/inbox/
VFP Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/VerticalFarmPod
Subscribe to our newsletters!
AgTech Digest - https://agtechdigest.com
The Indoor Farmer - https://www.indoorverticalfarm.com/
Horti-Gen Insights - https://www.hortigeninsights.com/
Sponsor Links
Cultivatd’s Website – https://cultivatd.com/
Cultivatd’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/cultivatdco/
Cultivatd’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/cultivatd
Cultivatd’s Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/cultivatd/
🎙️🎙️🎙️
Podcast Production and Marketing by FullCast
Discover the best podcast services in the world at The Podosphere: https://www.thepodosphere.com/
Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
Speaker:Autonomous weeding robots dominated, and John Deere made 2 acquisitions in 3
Speaker:months. A food company, not an equipment maker, bought a
Speaker:robotics startup to protect its own supply chain. The deals are
Speaker:accelerating, the money is moving, and the winners are already separating from the
Speaker:pack. If you're investing, building, or buying in this space,
Speaker:you need the full picture before your competitors get it. The 2025
Speaker:Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report From iGrow News is now
Speaker:available. Get your copy today at
Speaker:igrownews.com/precision. If you are starting a vertical
Speaker:farm and don't know where to begin or which technology would suit your needs,
Speaker:then reach out to the experts at Cultivated. As indoor farm brokers, they
Speaker:help connect you to the right technology and ensure your project is successful.
Speaker:Best of all, their service is free because they work on behalf of their partners.
Speaker:Visit cultivated.com to learn more. And that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com,
Speaker:or click the link in the show notes. Strongly that this endeavor has the
Speaker:capability to have a massive impact on humanity on planet Earth and
Speaker:beyond. And so my head is down getting the
Speaker:technology done, getting that technology into the market so we can start
Speaker:to get a little bit of a flywheel momentum effect, and then start to apply
Speaker:this in all the places we know it can be applied.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations
Speaker:with fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.
Speaker:Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical
Speaker:farming with your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 8. Regular listeners, welcome
Speaker:back. I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedules, your busy
Speaker:day, your busy life to keep listening to the show. I've been getting
Speaker:so many good comments and feedback from people who are
Speaker:listening, who have been listening from episode 1, for people who have just discovered
Speaker:it recently, keep coming back, giving me feedback on the guests,
Speaker:and that's always nice for me to hear. If this is your first time listening,
Speaker:I am sure you're in the right place. If you are queuing up a
Speaker:show called the Vertical Farming Podcast, it's likely that you want some information or
Speaker:looking for some guidance around something vertical farming, indoor
Speaker:farming, CEA-related, and you are in the right place because
Speaker:this is the one where I interview fascinating CEOs, and founders of the leading
Speaker:vertical farming companies from around the world. I'm your host, Harry Duran. I've
Speaker:been podcasting since 2014 with my first show, Podcast Junkies.
Speaker:In case you missed last week's episode, it was round 2 with Alexander
Speaker:Olesen of Babylon Microfarms. So exciting to see the
Speaker:progress that the team is making, the recent round of
Speaker:investment that they secured. I even saw some photos of Alexander
Speaker:with Vice President Kamala Harris. So lots of visibility, which is
Speaker:always good news for our industry, vertical farming, CEA,
Speaker:and so great to see the progress that they're making. It's always fun to see
Speaker:the vertical farm that's set up just outside the indoor
Speaker:AgCon registration area, which they've been securing the past 2
Speaker:years, probably before then because I've only attended 2, and I'll probably see them again
Speaker:in 2024 in Las Vegas. So if you haven't checked that out, please
Speaker:do so. It was episode 100, so I'm still on that high, riding that
Speaker:100-episode high, and congrats to— Congratulations. My
Speaker:entire team, all the past guests, everyone that's had any
Speaker:part in making this happen and getting us to this 3-year,
Speaker:100-episode mark. I'm so excited and so grateful for all of you.
Speaker:This week, we have a high-vibe conversation that I queued
Speaker:up and previewed last episode. It's with Samuel Bertrand. He's the
Speaker:CEO and co-founder of 1.1 and Willow, and we
Speaker:go on an inspiring podcast journey. He shares his vision for
Speaker:revolutionizing the way we grow and consume food. through vertical farming.
Speaker:He has a passion to solve the world's poor nutrition
Speaker:problems, and their innovative approach includes some patented
Speaker:vertical farming tech called Apollo and their
Speaker:direct-to-consumer marketing and sales business known as Willow.
Speaker:We'll hear about the challenges he faced in creating these companies, the significance of
Speaker:healthy competition, and their ultimate goal of promoting human and environmental
Speaker:well-being. Get ready to be inspired by Samuel's
Speaker:unwavering dedication to making a lasting impact on this
Speaker:world and its Something that you'll hear as a consistent thread through our
Speaker:conversation, and definitely through the vibe and the energy
Speaker:of his enthusiasm. I can't wait to share this with you. If you've enjoyed
Speaker:past episodes, if you end up enjoying this episode, please, you know what the
Speaker:call is. If you're a regular listener, leave a rating and a review.
Speaker:Is there any reason you haven't already? Have you been thinking about it and you
Speaker:just haven't had the time to? Well, this is not something you'll hear a podcast
Speaker:host do often, but you can actually pause this now. Pause. Head on over to
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp, and
Speaker:you know what'll happen? I'll read yours out on the next episode and you'll become
Speaker:world famous. How cool is that? Please do so,
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp. These episodes are always
Speaker:chock-full of great takeaways, and as a listener, I want you to focus all your
Speaker:energy on this conversation. You don't have to have a pen handy or take notes
Speaker:as you listen to things. Rest assured, you'll always be able to visit
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com and read the full show notes for each
Speaker:episode, which includes all the guest links as well. As of this
Speaker:recording, I'm getting ready for my trip to Indoor AgTech NYC, which you'll hear about
Speaker:shortly, and I can't wait to engage with past
Speaker:guests, new guests, potential guests, fans of vertical farming. These
Speaker:indoor farming conferences are becoming a really high point in
Speaker:my year. I've got a couple more lined up, so I can't wait to connect
Speaker:with you if that's going to happen. I'm excited. All right, enough of that. Before
Speaker:we get into this conversation with Samuel, here are a few words from the amazing
Speaker:folks support this show. This year, Indoor AgTech is coming to New
Speaker:York City's Times Square, and it's bringing together the world's leading growers,
Speaker:retailers, tech providers, seed companies, and investors. Join
Speaker:us from June 29th to June 30th to meet, expand networks, and
Speaker:produce fruitful partnerships. The team has been gracious enough to provide
Speaker:listeners of this show with an additional 10% off of the registration.
Speaker:Simply use promo code VFP when you register and lock that in.
Speaker:And by the way, if you're on the fence, remember that early bird discount ends
Speaker:on May 11th. After a pivotal year for CEA, the summit will
Speaker:explore what's needed to ensure the industry can continue innovating and growing
Speaker:into a crucial part of the global agri-food supply chain. I'm excited to
Speaker:introduce our latest sponsor, Ounce of Hope, an aquaponics
Speaker:cannabis company. Ounce of Hope utilizes aquaponics to cultivate
Speaker:cannabis and seafood livestock. They also perform their own
Speaker:extraction and product formulation in the heart of Memphis, Tennessee. While
Speaker:managing 5,000 gallons of koi and tilapia, Ounce of Hope's
Speaker:system allows for abundant production of fish poop nutrients, which you
Speaker:can now buy online. This product is concentrated plant food for any
Speaker:size garden. Fish poop is free of emulsions, bad smells, and
Speaker:won't burn your plants. Ounce of Hope is giving Vertical Farming Podcast
Speaker:listeners 50% off their first order, so swim on over to
Speaker:ounceofhope.com to experience the aquaponics side of cannabis
Speaker:and use promo code fish poop. How fun is that? Mark your
Speaker:calendars for the CEA Summit East in Danville, Virginia from
Speaker:September 19th to the 20th, 2023. This 2-day
Speaker:event co-hosted by Indoor AgCon and the Virginia Tech IALR
Speaker:Controlled Environment Agriculture Innovation Center brings
Speaker:businesses and academia together to help you grow your business.
Speaker:Immerse yourself in a full lineup of research showcases, panel discussions, and keynotes
Speaker:featuring top experts, grower operators, and other thought leaders.
Speaker:Explore the latest CEA innovations from tabletop exhibitors.
Speaker:Enjoy quality networking opportunities. Don't miss this unique opportunity to
Speaker:attend a conference at a research facility where you can get a firsthand look at
Speaker:cutting-edge research projects happening right now and explore ideas for
Speaker:collaboration with Virginia Tech and IALR researchers as
Speaker:well. Vertical Farming Podcast listeners can save 10% off the standard
Speaker:passes with code VFP. Visit
Speaker:ceasummit.com for more details and to register. Okay,
Speaker:Samuel Bertram, CEO and co-founder at 1.1n Willow, thank you
Speaker:so much for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Pleasure is
Speaker:all mine. I love hearing where people are at and all the cool little
Speaker:gadgets that they've got to podcast with, and I love giving folks a little
Speaker:peek behind the scenes. I do have plans to eventually make this video and go
Speaker:on YouTube, but that's not happening just yet. So for right now,
Speaker:Listeners will have to use theater of the mind. So if you could describe that
Speaker:little contraption you created to help with the sound baffling on
Speaker:your microphone. Oh, this little thing. Oh, bloody hell. So I went and
Speaker:found— there's so many echoes in rooms and rather than putting all the soundproofing
Speaker:stuff on the wall, which takes time, I bought this eccentric soundproof. I cut
Speaker:out some holes with a wire cutter at the base of the fitting and then
Speaker:put a spit guard on the front. And then what do you know? I sound
Speaker:about 7 out of 10. I'm really happy with that outcome. You got MacGyver in
Speaker:your blood? Is that something you've always been known to do? No, I
Speaker:mean, I don't think MacGyver was cheap, was he? I don't think he was cheap.
Speaker:Yeah, but you do have an engineering background.
Speaker:I do, and certainly not by nature. I went through high school and
Speaker:did business topics, maybe some science topics. I didn't do math for 4 or 5
Speaker:years. I discovered the concept of nano— not discovered, but I came upon
Speaker:the concept concept of nanotechnology and just thought it was so insanely
Speaker:cool. So I went and, well, I got a scholarship to Santa Clara
Speaker:University to play tennis there and walked into the engineering school in the middle of
Speaker:summer and said, guys, I don't have any background in engineering, but I promise you
Speaker:I'm going to finish this degree in 3 years. I promise you. Wow. Like, all
Speaker:right, this dude seems crazy. We'll let him in. But I got— I went into
Speaker:math, I went into Calculus 3, multivariable calculus,
Speaker:after 4 years of not doing math. And you can imagine a
Speaker:gladiator-like scenario where I'm being eaten by alligators. That was almost the best description of
Speaker:how Math 3 went That's interesting. I
Speaker:get the sense since you went to college on a
Speaker:tennis scholarship, there's a bit of a competitive streak in you. I love it,
Speaker:dude. I love it. I think competition, it can breed bad things,
Speaker:but properly managed competition can bring out the best in you and
Speaker:the best in others. I love it in sports. I love it in the business
Speaker:marketplace. You know, in vertical farming, we're all in the ring
Speaker:competing to develop the best technology and the highest quality produce and who
Speaker:wins. Well, the winner wins and ultimately the consumer wins. So I think
Speaker:competition is a phenomenal thing. How young were you when you started playing
Speaker:tennis? Oh my goodness. Before I can remember, I
Speaker:was— mum tells me that I was 3 or 4 when I started hitting the
Speaker:ball up against the wall and we had a little sports room in our house.
Speaker:I mean, obviously not, not well, but our dad was a tennis coach, a tennis
Speaker:fanatic, and he was our coach for basically the whole time we were in
Speaker:Australia until the age of 18. We came over here. To the US, my brother
Speaker:and I. So yeah, since sport, I played probably
Speaker:between the ages of 8 and 18. I probably
Speaker:didn't play sport on like 20 of those days. Sport was my life. What
Speaker:was your reaction to King Richard? King Richard? I haven't seen it yet, mate. I
Speaker:haven't seen it yet. But just, I mean, this is the thing is that
Speaker:look at that rise. Look at the rise of those 2 from
Speaker:nothing to the best female tennis players in the world and the best
Speaker:tennis female tennis player ever. I mean, I just love
Speaker:that stuff, man. You know, there again, the beauty of competition. They just— they sacrificed.
Speaker:Their dad sacrificed so much. They sacrificed so much, and now they're reaping the
Speaker:reward. Love it. What's your relationship when you
Speaker:think of that combination or the dichotomy between, you know,
Speaker:sacrifice and lifestyle or quality of life? Do you
Speaker:think about those two, and how do you manage that relationship? Well, first
Speaker:of all, my baseline for life is sort of a heap of
Speaker:gratitude, gratefulness. You know, my baseline is not the
Speaker:person living next door to me. My baseline is a man or a woman in
Speaker:the 1600s that hasn't had a shower in their entire life, that has no access
Speaker:to medicine. All of their surgeries have no antiseptic, no anesthesia.
Speaker:Like, that's my baseline. So every day on planet Earth is an absolute
Speaker:freaking gift. Every sip of water coming out of a tap is
Speaker:magical. Obviously being a little excessive, but you understand that's
Speaker:kind of my baseline. So, you know, work-life balance according
Speaker:to who and according to which standard when, you know, my
Speaker:life is so phenomenally high quality, so
Speaker:comfortable. I don't, you know, what work-life balance, like I get to go home to
Speaker:a warm bed with my daughter and in a beautiful house. I mean, what the
Speaker:heck, man? Like, I don't, I'm in here on the weekends by choice. I'm not
Speaker:ever thinking, oh, I wish, you know, I had some more time to go out
Speaker:on a jet ski. Screw that. I'll go out on a jet ski when I'm
Speaker:50 and my brain doesn't work. But now there are a lot of people
Speaker:that— I'm no martyr, believe me. This is just the way I think and my
Speaker:brother thinks. We just have a very finite period of time where
Speaker:we can be very productive, and we want to aim that
Speaker:productivity at making the world a better place in a meaningful way. So
Speaker:it's simple in the end. How do you think about guidance for
Speaker:your daughter in light of the experience you had growing up and in light of
Speaker:the reference you made to King Richard? Do you think about those things in terms
Speaker:of like how You know, how much effort do you direct someone
Speaker:or you just let them find their own way? Sure. I
Speaker:mean, I spend, I, even with the business, I still spend hours
Speaker:with her every day. You know, I, that's something, you know, that's something I'm not
Speaker:willing to sacrifice to a significant extent.
Speaker:So I'm still, of course, very involved with her. It's a complicated question,
Speaker:dude, because the outcome you desire is not necessarily
Speaker:the outcome she desires. The impacts you hope you
Speaker:will make along the way may or may not impact her in that way.
Speaker:There are— it's so complicated. And there are so many unknowns that
Speaker:really, and it's the same in business, in my opinion, you have to apply
Speaker:yourself. The control you have is over yourself and the way that you apply
Speaker:yourself to the situation. So with my daughter, very attentive, I speak in
Speaker:large words, we play sport, I'm not perfect. I think adult humans
Speaker:have a habit of overthinking things sometimes.
Speaker:And, you know, at the end of the day, when you look at the data,
Speaker:parents have a 10 to 20% impact on the outcome of the child. The
Speaker:rest is genetics and friends and experiences and all that kind of stuff. So look,
Speaker:that's 10 to 20%. I'm going to do what I can to make sure that
Speaker:she has the freedom to stretch her boundaries, and I encourage her to stretch her
Speaker:boundaries. But also I set those boundaries such that she isn't doing silly things
Speaker:or going down the wrong path. So we'll see, dude. I don't know. I, I
Speaker:had fantastic parents. I don't think I'll ever live up to that standard, but I'll
Speaker:do my best. Yeah. And how old did you say when you made it to
Speaker:the States? I was 18. What was your first reaction? First
Speaker:reaction. I was awake for 60 hours. I arrived in Fresno,
Speaker:California, and I was a couple of weeks late to the semester. And my
Speaker:teammates thought it was a good idea to start doing the
Speaker:initiations and the hazings. Oh, okay. They're going to the, my first
Speaker:ever American football game. So that was an intriguing 60 hours,
Speaker:but many stories that I can't share on a podcast. It was a phenomenal 60
Speaker:hours. What can I say? It's very similar to Australia, dude. You know,
Speaker:Culturally, it's very similar. It's just a very similar place. There was no shock. I
Speaker:was an 18-year-old coming over here and getting rewarded to play tennis. I mean, what
Speaker:the heck, I'm gonna love every moment. I get the sense that on the West
Speaker:Coast, because I lived 4 years in LA myself, so the vibe there is a
Speaker:bit more relaxed and a bit more in line with like the friends that I
Speaker:have that are Australian and from other parts of the country, the UK
Speaker:as well. And just there's certain vibes, I think, where people
Speaker:learn how to take care. And the fact that I grew up in New York
Speaker:also, so Sometimes when it comes to playing around with my
Speaker:friends, I do have thicker skin as well. Yeah, but that's the
Speaker:funny thing because I think Australians are like Californians with
Speaker:thicker skin. I think it's a very apt way of describing it because we, I
Speaker:mean, we just did a— John, my brother and I, co-founder of the business,
Speaker:CTO, we just did a 2 or 3 hour due diligence call just
Speaker:before this. And during the call, we're jabbing back and forth at each other. And
Speaker:I hope Americans don't think that we actually like have some deep-seated problem with each
Speaker:other. I mean, we're smiling while we're saying this stuff, but yeah, it's, uh, the
Speaker:jousting is— unfortunately, you can't get away with much jousting in California, I'll tell
Speaker:you that much. I had to shut my mouth pretty quick. Yeah, and especially in
Speaker:this environment that we find ourselves in. I think it's a— it's going to be
Speaker:a bit of a correction because the pendulum has swung a bit too far to
Speaker:the correctness side. So watch what you say nowadays.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, especially— I don't mean to say it this way, but especially
Speaker:in my— me and my brother's position, We've got to be so bloody
Speaker:careful what we say publicly, even if, you know, we can get in a lot
Speaker:of trouble real quick, especially being Australian. So this is me tightening my
Speaker:lips, by the way. It's not a good sign. We'll record a special version
Speaker:of this, the after-hours version, once we're done with the official one. Oh
Speaker:no. Yeah, I'll just hand in my resignation as soon as we conclude.
Speaker:So 2017, you started the company, which is
Speaker:relatively early in this space. You know, how did this
Speaker:get on your radar? And I know you were still— looks like you were still
Speaker:in school as well. So talk about those early days. Yeah,
Speaker:going through robotics school, my brother going through electrical engineering.
Speaker:We both knew Dad was heavy into philosophy and he would, you know, rather than
Speaker:going summer vacations to the beach or, you know, a resort, we would go
Speaker:to our nation's capital, Canberra, and we would go to the art
Speaker:gallery and the museum and the science museum and Parliament. and the library
Speaker:and all that kind of stuff. So bored out of our mind as we were
Speaker:as young children, I think that probably laid the correct seed. But, you know, we
Speaker:arriving at the end of our degrees, we were just saying, click your fingers,
Speaker:you're going to be 80 years old and I've missed life. You know, this is
Speaker:what you keep hearing from 80-year-olds, 100-year-olds. We listen to a lot of these videos
Speaker:on YouTube. Those people implore us, focus on what
Speaker:matters and be very efficient with your time. Don't waste
Speaker:your time. So those are 2 very clear messages. So hopefully we
Speaker:don't waste too much of our time, and hopefully we are aiming
Speaker:our fruits towards things that will improve
Speaker:humanity. So look, all we did was, what's the greatest problem on planet
Speaker:Earth? GPT wasn't around, so we had to ask 2 or 3 times.
Speaker:The answer turned out to be poor nutrition, pretty clearly. Climate change is on that
Speaker:list, but it is not number one. Poor nutrition of humanity is the number one
Speaker:problem that faces humanity, quite clearly. So, we said, how can we
Speaker:possibly solve that problem? And then, we've got to take a big swing. The problem's
Speaker:got to be big and the solution's got to be big. Big doesn't mean fast.
Speaker:There's a huge conflation between big and fast. Big and fast can exist in
Speaker:software, big and fast cannot exist in hardware. Yeah. So, big is important
Speaker:to us, fast is less important to us. So, when poor
Speaker:nutrition came up as the biggest problem, we couldn't quite find that
Speaker:match on the traditional farming side, couldn't quite find that match on the greenhouse
Speaker:farming side. But then we came across vertical farming and it was clear
Speaker:automation needed to be solved, energy efficiency needed to be
Speaker:solved. My background's robotics, even though I suck at it, and John's
Speaker:background is electrical engineering and he's bloody great at it. So we came together
Speaker:and we said, you know, and we knew nothing, dude. I mean, I'll show you,
Speaker:I'll give you one example. We had an investment come in through the Stanford Investment
Speaker:Investors Club and the guy calls me up, says, congratulations, we're going to invest $10
Speaker:grand. I said, oh, that's fantastic, best $10 grand of my life. And they said,
Speaker:you know, who should we put the check to? And I said, just make it
Speaker:out to me. And they said, no, dude, that's not how this works. We can't
Speaker:write you a check. We're investing in the business. I said, just write 1.1. They
Speaker:said, well, are you a C corp or an S corp? I don't know, dude.
Speaker:And they go, are you incorporated? I said, what's incorporation? They said, do you have
Speaker:a bank account? I said, no. Oh my God. This is like, that's
Speaker:indicative. But I'm always pretty honest about what we don't know. And I think
Speaker:ultimately that helped, even though it was very painful in the way. But anyway, yeah,
Speaker:it's— I think I really— no, I don't think, I believe
Speaker:strongly that this endeavor has the capability to have a massive
Speaker:impact on humanity on planet Earth and beyond. And so my
Speaker:head is down getting the technology done, getting that
Speaker:technology into the market so we can start to get a little bit of a
Speaker:flywheel momentum effect, and then start to apply this in all the places
Speaker:we know it can be applied. Where'd the name come from? We read a
Speaker:statistic that said 1.1 billion people started the millennium malnourished.
Speaker:And that, like, talk about smacking you in the face. My brother has an
Speaker:analogy, which is malnourishment is like this. You and your friends are in a pool
Speaker:playing a game where you see how long you can hold your breath. After about
Speaker:45 seconds, you start to feel your body telling you, I need oxygen,
Speaker:I need oxygen. And then you come up for air. Malnourishment is like that, except
Speaker:you don't know where the bloody air is. So then you multiply that by 3
Speaker:times the population of the United States. You're talking about a pretty big problem. And
Speaker:then that goes back to your previous question, which is about work-life balance. Do they
Speaker:have work-life balance? Who am I to say, oh, I really want to
Speaker:preserve my work-life balance while these people, you know,
Speaker:26% of the world's children, population of children
Speaker:is malnourished. I'll say it again, 26% of the world's children are
Speaker:stunted, not just malnourished, stunted.
Speaker:Okay, I don't mind so much about my work-life balance now. Where did this
Speaker:view of life, I mentioned some of the influence of your father taking you to
Speaker:all these Places that probably most kids don't spend a lot of time in.
Speaker:So I'm curious, like, how your worldview was created over time. Heavily influenced by
Speaker:my parents, certainly. It was this very early recognition of death
Speaker:and finiteness of life and the finality
Speaker:of death that was, oh my goodness, life is going to be
Speaker:over in a flash. And so I'm like, one day I'm
Speaker:going to be met with the news that I'm terminally ill, or I'm just going
Speaker:to be outright killed by something. That is inevitable, as inevitable as something
Speaker:can be. Before then, I'd like to get
Speaker:something done. So, you know, the worldview was certainly— it was planted
Speaker:by my parents, and then I went off and did all my dumb stuff in
Speaker:college. And then towards the end of college, I started to ask myself actual
Speaker:questions. And it was, you know, it was the sort of the disenfranchisement
Speaker:of a couple of different ideals over time. I think it was like, you know
Speaker:what, the way I see the world is not Correct. And I don't think
Speaker:there are many young people that should be tasked with—
Speaker:how do I say this— I don't think there should be many young people that
Speaker:should be tasked with setting the direction of the world from a philosophical
Speaker:perspective. I think philosophy requires experience. I think philosophy
Speaker:requires, therefore, wisdom. It's— even though the
Speaker:idealism of the young is good, it needs to be
Speaker:heavily tempered. And in my opinion, The adults in the room,
Speaker:of which I'm barely a part of, should be discussing those
Speaker:things. Do you have a favorite philosopher? I know my brother does. I
Speaker:just don't read that much, dude. That's my problem. I listen. I was about to
Speaker:say Alan Watts, but that's obviously not— I've read
Speaker:a lot of this stuff, but Stoic is big.
Speaker:Stoicism is big. You know, the Meditations, all the offshoots
Speaker:of the Meditations, even the Greeks before him. That stuff
Speaker:really resonates with me. You know, I think about the concept of being a
Speaker:man, which is not something we should discuss certainly in
Speaker:2023, but the concept of being a man is, in my
Speaker:opinion, Stoicism is everywhere
Speaker:within the fibers of being a man, in my opinion. Patience,
Speaker:strength, even-temperedness, these kinds of things. I
Speaker:think I naturally resonate with them and I think they're great ideals to aspire to.
Speaker:Yeah, I've been off and on digging some Orion Haldy stuff, even so much that
Speaker:I actually have this here on my desk. It's my coin. There you go, the
Speaker:coin. Yeah, yeah, Temperance, Wisdom, Courage,
Speaker:and Justice. So, a couple reminders. Yeah,
Speaker:yeah, dude. And we all need them, man. That's another thing I think we miss
Speaker:these days is, guess what, those things on the coin are the ideal. You are
Speaker:not them. In fact, you are very far— not you, but we are very
Speaker:far from those ideals. Yeah, and we're projects, dude. I
Speaker:mean, I don't see myself as fine the way I am. I've got a long
Speaker:way to go before I'm happy with, you know, who I am and what I've
Speaker:accomplished, you know what I mean? And that's okay. I'm not down on myself. It's
Speaker:so funny you talked about this idea of, uh, stoicism and manhood. And,
Speaker:you know, most men of this era have
Speaker:never gone through any sort of experience. You know,
Speaker:for some cultures, sometimes it's like Jewish culture, it's bar mitzvah, but really
Speaker:nothing like we're thinking about indigenous cultures, like 3 days, go out, live
Speaker:on your own, come back, and then, you know, like a sweat lodge or something
Speaker:like that. And I think that's really missing, this sort of like initiation phase.
Speaker:So I've been thinking about a lot. I've actually signed up for a retreat I'm
Speaker:going to be headed to in Washington. It's 3 days. No way. Yeah, it's, it's
Speaker:a men's retreat. And it's, it's so funny because they're like, prepare for like being
Speaker:outside and make sure you bring a mouth guard as well. So I was like,
Speaker:okay, but really, I don't think it's going to be too crazy, but I think
Speaker:they just want to protect people. But I think it's Definitely going to push me
Speaker:out of my comfort zone because I'm a bit anxious about going. But just from
Speaker:the pictures I've seen and the experiences, transformations, no cameras allowed, stuff like that. So
Speaker:it'll be a nice way to kind of see if I can
Speaker:deepen my connection or opening my heart because it's something I'm very
Speaker:head-based. So that's something that I want to focus on. Yeah. Yeah. The
Speaker:another notion that I think is lost is this concept of service. I mean, again,
Speaker:back to the man thing, females, of course, I'm not excluding them at all. It's
Speaker:just men I'm a little more familiar with. Being in service of your
Speaker:family, being in service of your community, being in service of your business and
Speaker:your mission. Life is about service, and I think many
Speaker:religions speak to that. But yeah, back to your previous point, which is
Speaker:very few men go through a rite of passage or a
Speaker:maturation phase. It almost has to be artificial. Sport, I think, does it
Speaker:very well. War does it unbelievably well. Outcomes
Speaker:aren't necessarily all that great for the individual after war, but
Speaker:Yeah, it's, I yearn for responsibility. I want
Speaker:responsibility. I want my actions to
Speaker:be responsible for the wellbeing of others. I want that. And I'm,
Speaker:and on the downside case, it causes harm or doesn't provide value.
Speaker:But in the upside case where it does provide value, I think that's where I'm
Speaker:going to be most fulfilled. Who do you go to or who do you trust
Speaker:when it comes to seeing whether you're in
Speaker:alignment? Because when you look at it yourself, you may think that you're on the
Speaker:right path, but who provides those guardrails for you from the outside looking in?
Speaker:Brother, family, our CEO, who now of course we
Speaker:consider family. Many inside of this business I would consider family.
Speaker:I'm very open about that. You know, I ask them
Speaker:quite often, especially after specific scenarios,
Speaker:how could I have been better? What did I do wrong? I wish I didn't
Speaker:do that. I have very little internal
Speaker:negative speak. Critical, not negative.
Speaker:Very— those two are very different things. So I'm not negative on
Speaker:myself really at all. None of those loops apply. So there's a
Speaker:lot more of the board game that is now available to me to be
Speaker:critical. So I think it's just so fundamentally important to
Speaker:your improvement as a human and your ability to be efficient as an
Speaker:operator. To be able to look at yourself and see where you have flaws and
Speaker:deficiencies. And the people I go to— brother primarily,
Speaker:family beyond that, father, mother. I keep asking my 4-year-old daughter for
Speaker:advice, but she just can't quite articulate herself too well just yet. And our COO,
Speaker:Alon, and head of business development, Dushan and Ryan. You know,
Speaker:I've had some tough times over the last 18 months, went through a divorce, a
Speaker:few other things, and that group of people has been so
Speaker:fundamental to You know, getting through that period of time, they're my
Speaker:rock upon which my emotional waves crash. Yeah, that's
Speaker:important to have that support system. Where's home for you? Scottsdale,
Speaker:Arizona, mate. Used to be Gilroy, before that was San Jose,
Speaker:Fresno, before that was Melbourne, Australia. Okay. And where's the headquarters
Speaker:for 1.1? Scottsdale, mate. Yep. Okay.
Speaker:And any— was there a choice between deciding to be there? Yeah, look,
Speaker:the number one metric we were looking for as a business was what's the density
Speaker:of golf courses. per cubic kilometer. I'm joking. No, we were in
Speaker:California for a while. As we touched on gocularly
Speaker:before, California is not exactly an easy place to be right now for a lot
Speaker:of people. And it's also— California is very
Speaker:low in acceptance. It's a funny thing is that California always preaches,
Speaker:you know, acceptance, inclusivity, all that kind of stuff. But if you don't
Speaker:think the way I think, get out. It's a fascinating thing.
Speaker:Tough place to do business. So we moved over to Arizona, probably
Speaker:You know, we moved here about 2 years ago, a little over 2 years ago,
Speaker:headquarters. In fact, I got an email today moving out of San Jose, certainly
Speaker:sad. A lot of friends, a lot of memories out there, but it was certainly
Speaker:the best trade for the business. And, you know, we looked at electricity price, labor
Speaker:costs, real estate costs, access to consumables, distribution network, all
Speaker:that kind of stuff. And Arizona, Phoenix came out as, you know,
Speaker:number 1 or 2. And I didn't really want to live in Washington State. I'm
Speaker:not a cold, uh, I'm not a cold-blooded animal. That was a joke.
Speaker:So yeah, Scottsdale turned out to be perfect. Has there been any changes
Speaker:for you in terms of culture-wise or shifts in
Speaker:what you expected? Not really, man. I mean, I'm not
Speaker:hypersensitive to that stuff. I can just sort of, I can drop myself
Speaker:in and, and also I don't have a huge amount of time to
Speaker:socialize. So it's not exactly like I've been spending time at bars and clubs and
Speaker:social clubs and stuff like that. So I don't even know. But no, I mean,
Speaker:it's, I love this place. It's a lot more accepting of different
Speaker:points of view than my previous locations. It's a lot more sort
Speaker:of live and let live kind of scenario. It's a very
Speaker:clean place. I enjoy the people very much. I've had
Speaker:very few people that I clash with from a values perspective over here.
Speaker:I don't know. You're always going to pull the positive stuff out of me, man.
Speaker:I don't know too many negative things I'd say about Scottsdale. So let's talk about
Speaker:early days. What was the idea? Who was the customer base? What
Speaker:was the product mix look like when you got started? Like, who are you intending
Speaker:to serve? I didn't even know I needed to incorporate the business. So I'll
Speaker:skip a year. Let me just skip a year. No. So yeah,
Speaker:initially it was that it wasn't product market fit. And that
Speaker:was a mistake early. And I'm talking first 12 months, it was like, we're working
Speaker:on tech, we're working on tech. Okay, draw the business model. And you're like,
Speaker:ah, that changed very quickly, obviously. But we
Speaker:brought the adults into the room. But, you know, early days, we were going to
Speaker:go down the path of building our own facilities and selling produce into the market.
Speaker:And, you know, after a couple of years of that, and we were putting produce
Speaker:out into the market, we had a 3-star Michelin chef, we had a lot of,
Speaker:you know, we had a direct-to-consumer business we were running back then.
Speaker:A lot of those learnings were vital, but it was actually, you know, thinking about
Speaker:the long-term viability of the business and looking at the failures of vertical farming
Speaker:You know, we started to realize this model of building mega facilities on your own
Speaker:dime and producing a commodity product that you then distribute out into the market, it
Speaker:wasn't optimal for a variety of reasons. But a lot of what it came down
Speaker:to was, how do we do the greatest good in the shortest period of time?
Speaker:If we're the ones that have to develop the market study for each of
Speaker:the individual markets, raise the project financing to build the facility,
Speaker:operate the facility, and get product out to the market, who are we? We're all
Speaker:things. And I'm not smart enough to do all things. So
Speaker:we sat down and we said, you know, look, we're a technology company. Those are
Speaker:our fundamentals. We came into this thinking we can solve the big problems of
Speaker:this industry through technology. I still believe that to be the case. It will take
Speaker:time. It'll take money. You know, we really just thinned
Speaker:down who we were and what we do. And that's how we arrived in this
Speaker:place where we've developed a proprietary solution. We have patent
Speaker:protection around the method of production, which is Not something that many
Speaker:organizations can say. And we're integrating the best
Speaker:technologies off the shelf that we can possibly find. And our
Speaker:secret sauce is in that integration and the software that runs it and the data
Speaker:and the analysis of that data. That's our, that's kind of our business in a
Speaker:nutshell. Talk a little bit about, you know, given the fact that you're around since
Speaker:2017, I'm wondering what the impact was and how
Speaker:you had to shift during the pandemic. It was actually more
Speaker:operational than anything else. When you think about COVID and
Speaker:as it pertains to vertical farming and headwinds and tailwinds, in many cases there were
Speaker:more tailwinds than headwinds. Yeah. Operationally, there were headwinds, you know,
Speaker:farming and development, these things kind of— we had to have a lot more, many
Speaker:more restrictions and travel and so forth. So operationally it was more
Speaker:difficult, but I think it sped e-commerce up. I think it
Speaker:sped up the understanding of
Speaker:produce production, plant production, and further informed the
Speaker:preferences, sped up that informing of the customer and consumer
Speaker:preferences. So, in general, I don't think, as
Speaker:it relates to vertical farming, I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker:Where I thought your question was going was more down the path of, you know,
Speaker:starting in 2017, we incorporated 2 weeks before Plenty
Speaker:announced their $200 million round from SoftBank and you know, huge
Speaker:claims, and a lot of these claims falling flat. We made a
Speaker:decision very early on to stay out of that whitewash, man. Just stay
Speaker:out of it. We— I'm not the kind of guy that wants to sort of
Speaker:hide in the shadows and not say much. I don't know how clear that is.
Speaker:I want to be the one out in the marketplace talking about this technology in
Speaker:this industry, and that's starting to occur now. We just, you know, there
Speaker:were so many massive claims and so few actual executions
Speaker:that We just stepped back and said, we just ain't gonna say much for a
Speaker:long time. And fortunately, that's assisted us now that there is
Speaker:whitewash, now that a lot of the vertical farming industry is in a difficult moment.
Speaker:I think that has assisted us. We've been different in that way. Yeah,
Speaker:definitely. And in terms of the environment, in terms of the folks in the space,
Speaker:we actually connected briefly at Indoor AgCon,
Speaker:courtesy of the team at Cultivated. So talk about your thoughts on getting out there,
Speaker:being more visible, and meeting folks and networking within specifically
Speaker:within this indoor farming space, what that experience has been like for you? Our preference
Speaker:is to do and then say. In startup world, that's not
Speaker:always possible. And so a lot of startups came out
Speaker:and said before they did. And I'm not saying that we never did that. Like,
Speaker:of course, there were times where we were projecting about what we think we can
Speaker:do. So I don't mean to be laying blame on everyone but us. We're included
Speaker:to some extent, of course. But now that we have a demonstration,
Speaker:Now that we have farm customers, now that we
Speaker:have proof of things,
Speaker:it's a lot easier to go out and say, guys, you know, great question, go
Speaker:look at it in the actual thing operating as opposed to, you know, what it
Speaker:might be in the future. So it's mainly just been about proving
Speaker:out what we thought we could do and now going out to customers and saying,
Speaker:this is what we have. And if these are our operating costs and the build
Speaker:costs and all these kinds of things, you know, so. That's the point we're at
Speaker:right now. We're starting crossing that chasm between we've got a technology,
Speaker:we've got early adopters, we need to get this out to the agnostic
Speaker:market. So that's right now, that's where we're at right now on the other
Speaker:side of that chasm as of very recently. But yeah, that's, that's how
Speaker:I'd answer that one. Do you see that more then as an
Speaker:important part of your marketing to get out there, starting to be the face of
Speaker:the company at more of these conferences? Many things. I think it is important to
Speaker:improve that sales funnel. I also, we've done a lot
Speaker:of thinking about this, and I think we've been quite sober throughout the years regarding
Speaker:how hard this is and how much time it will take. You know, continuing
Speaker:to get those messages out into the public, I think is important.
Speaker:People are very hasty with vertical farming and impatient, partially because
Speaker:of the claims that were made many years ago, I'm sure. But yeah, it's partially
Speaker:marketing, but it's also know, wanting to make this more
Speaker:mainstream, more of a conversational topic. I don't imagine we'll ever get to
Speaker:the point where it's, you know, where ChatGPT worldwide number one thing searched on
Speaker:Google. But there are messages here,
Speaker:real messages here that I think the market or the wider
Speaker:audience need to hear and align with in a lot of cases. There are other
Speaker:projections or there are other contemplations that we'd like to test against the market
Speaker:and see what the experience of other vertical farmers and customers have been. And
Speaker:so there are many different reasons why it's important for us to be out now
Speaker:in the market, but fundamentally we had to be ready to get into the
Speaker:market first. Makes a lot of sense. So for folks that
Speaker:may not be familiar with 1PointOne and Willow, can you just— assuming folks are coming
Speaker:to this new and they want to understand who you're for, who you're not for,
Speaker:who's an ideal fit— can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker:Sure. And well, great question, well asked. So,
Speaker:1PointOne is a technology company. 1PointOne has developed an
Speaker:automated vertical farming solution. 1PointOne has integrated
Speaker:many technologies under a patent-protected umbrella where our
Speaker:customers, our farm buyers or partners, come to us and say, I want a
Speaker:farm like that. They pay us a licensing fee, they pay to get the farm
Speaker:constructed, and there's a software program that runs the farm
Speaker:and integrates those other technologies like the automated seeding, automated harvest,
Speaker:automated packaging. So, we're that farming technology in the middle, that's the
Speaker:turnkey element. Then there are other elements like preprocessing,
Speaker:seeding, and then harvest storage, cleaning, waste management, stuff like
Speaker:that. All of that comes in as third-party integrations. So,
Speaker:that's essentially the 1.1 business. And our goal is to
Speaker:license as many licenses as we possibly can on the hardware side. And
Speaker:then that's the fastest way we believe to proliferate this technology is that in
Speaker:each of the circumstances, you have a buyer that knows their market, knows their
Speaker:supply chain, that has access to project financing, and we can be that
Speaker:technology inside, which is absolutely our strike zone. So
Speaker:that's the 1PointOne hardware and software solution. The farming
Speaker:technology is called Apollo with an O. So Apollo 2 is
Speaker:leafy green, Apollo 3 is strawberry, Apollo 4 is a medicinal
Speaker:plant that I'll hesitate to mention, and Apollo 5 is biopharmaceuticals. So
Speaker:that's the lay of the land with 1PointOne. Willow is a wholly owned
Speaker:subsidiary of 1PointOne. Willow is a direct-to-consumer
Speaker:marketing and sales business where consumers can become
Speaker:members of the Willow Farm. The Willow Farm will then
Speaker:produce that produce and then ship it directly to the door of that consumer.
Speaker:When we are in the process of licensing hardware out to our
Speaker:different customers, our customers also have a lot of interest in licensing the
Speaker:Willow, the Willow business as well. So when someone builds a
Speaker:farm in Pennsylvania, They'll also license the rights to the
Speaker:Willow business and be able to do direct-to-consumer for those individuals who
Speaker:want to be really involved in their plant production process. That's what
Speaker:Willow is really for. What's the typical size of a Willow installation
Speaker:or farm? It really depends. I mean, the installation, the farm is
Speaker:the Apollo system, the OPO 1.1 system. The Willow is
Speaker:interaction with the consumer. I mean, the average
Speaker:size of interest that we've been coming across is
Speaker:Somewhere, let's just say half a million pounds of yield per
Speaker:year. The way that would translate into square footage is between
Speaker:200,000 square feet, 2,000 and 3,000, excuse me, square
Speaker:feet for the installation. Depending on, as I said, depending
Speaker:on the output, that's somewhere between a $5 and a $7 million farm for that
Speaker:output. So that's the typical size. I think, you know, there are the
Speaker:Babylon Microgreens of the world that are for the sort of in-store
Speaker:or in-home and And I think that this technology is, is a much
Speaker:more industrial use case. I think anywhere from 1,000 to
Speaker:100,000 square feet makes sense for this kind of technology. It's very scalable.
Speaker:It's based upon a globally renowned automation system, so it
Speaker:is modular and scalable. But yeah, that's where this system plays
Speaker:best. It's challenging enough to have a company that's solely
Speaker:focused in one area and to understand the intricacies and the,
Speaker:the challenges you're going to be facing going forward, but it seems like you're doing
Speaker:it with 2 because you've got 1.1, you got Willow. Do you feel like you
Speaker:have to switch hats sometimes when you have specific challenges
Speaker:that would help the growth of Willow that are different than the challenges you might
Speaker:have at 1.1? Certainly. This game is a question of the attribution of
Speaker:resources. How do we optimally use our resources— human,
Speaker:money, all these kinds of things? So yes, I mean, I do have
Speaker:to sometimes actually close my eyes and give my brain a second to switch hats
Speaker:between OnePointOne and Willow for sure. Even within
Speaker:OnePointOne, even within Willow, I have to switch my hats for a second. I got
Speaker:a slow bloody brain up here. But yes, it is somewhat a split of
Speaker:my time. I mean, my main focus of course is on OnePointOne and on the
Speaker:technology. That's the part where we are focusing on growing the
Speaker:quickest. We have set up, we've established a Willow business
Speaker:that is scalable as well. So most of my time for sure is on the
Speaker:OnePointOne side. But I see such incredible prospects for Willow.
Speaker:You know, our ultimate goal is much greater than large
Speaker:facilities, you know, growing commodity products, right? Our goal
Speaker:is human health. Our goal is environmental health. Much wider
Speaker:than that. We think, you know, we have to put one foot in front of
Speaker:the other, mate. Believe me, we have to get, you know, the first 5 facilities
Speaker:up this year, 100 facilities next year. Once that's up and
Speaker:running, we're hitting real volume, then we can start to juice the Willow side of
Speaker:the business more because Health is going to become personalized. It's just
Speaker:flat out inevitable. When is the real question and how.
Speaker:So that's— Willow is going to participate in the personalization
Speaker:of health, personalization of diet. Talk a little bit about that. What does
Speaker:that look like for you when you say personalization of health?
Speaker:There are 30,000 edible plants in the world. We have
Speaker:access to less than 300 of them. Human health is
Speaker:predominantly based on plant-based products. I'm not saying go vegan,
Speaker:but it is clear that the healthiest diet you can eat is predominantly
Speaker:plant-based, not entirely, but predominantly. So
Speaker:understanding that, if we have the means of production on the plant
Speaker:side, and we can integrate ourselves with these biometric
Speaker:sensors like the Apple Watch and the Oura Ring and these kinds of things, of
Speaker:course, we wouldn't integrate directly into their raw data, but certainly the
Speaker:information they can yield from that data Right now, the best we
Speaker:can do is to take that biometrics feedback loop and feed it back into
Speaker:diet. What we want to do is take it a step further, feed it back
Speaker:into plant production. So if we understand on
Speaker:aggregate what New York requires
Speaker:individually, but of course on aggregate, we can then change or
Speaker:adapt what production looks like in order to be able to
Speaker:fulfill the requirements of that population. If we can understand,
Speaker:because diets are very regional and every human
Speaker:needs something different to operate at biological optimal.
Speaker:So in the future, I believe that we're going to
Speaker:dramatically expand the number of
Speaker:plant species that we grow for consumption. And
Speaker:we're also going to target those plants to ailments or
Speaker:biological deficiencies that can be rectified. That's where I
Speaker:think it's going. That's exciting. So since
Speaker:starting the company, where have you personally seen the most growth as a
Speaker:CEO and as a leader? Probably in the people. So many puns I
Speaker:can make, but probably the people, mate. I mean, our technology
Speaker:has come a very long way, and, you know, it's very hard to see the
Speaker:forest through the trees in that respect. So the objective answer would
Speaker:probably be the technology. The subjective answer is
Speaker:myself And the other people around me. This is very hard.
Speaker:The technology is one thing. Getting that product into market is
Speaker:another thing. Being able to adapt to the global macros,
Speaker:like the unavailability of cheap energy in Europe, or the increase
Speaker:in the price of inputs. This has— and the world turning on its
Speaker:head and capital drying up and vertical farms failing all over the place.
Speaker:Just have to remain very nimble and steady-headed. Many of those terms
Speaker:hopefully are on that coin. Yeah, I would say I've seen myself grow a
Speaker:lot. I've seen the team members grow a lot, and that has obviously
Speaker:benefited the company significantly. What's a tough question
Speaker:you've had to ask yourself recently? Am I doing this right is
Speaker:always a tough question. A lot of personal questions. I try and set some
Speaker:time out every half of the year to take a day
Speaker:and go through a couple of hard questions I have for myself. So many of
Speaker:them are personal. On a professional
Speaker:front, the question always becomes, am I doing the greatest good in the
Speaker:shortest period of time? Am I aiming the ship in the right direction? And
Speaker:the answer to that question may be a very hard answer. Right
Speaker:now, the answer still seems to be, in my opinion, quite clearly
Speaker:developing this technology and proliferating this technology.
Speaker:But that's probably the hardest corporate question we ask ourselves
Speaker:is, are we doing the right thing? Are we applying ourselves in the right
Speaker:place? But the personal questions are harder than the professional
Speaker:questions, for sure. You mentioned the
Speaker:goal, 100 markets. So are you looking to expand globally at this point? Well,
Speaker:it's 100 farms next year. So our major priority is to deploy
Speaker:the 5 farms that we recently sold here in Arizona. Then
Speaker:next year, we're hoping to, with the same customer— they're
Speaker:really a partner at this point— the same partner, scale those through the East
Speaker:Coast in one or more locations on the East coast of the United States. The
Speaker:United States has ample opportunity for
Speaker:scaling. I don't think we're going to run out of market in the United States
Speaker:anytime soon. But yeah, so we're going to focus on the United
Speaker:States for now. And have you been abroad? I was recently with
Speaker:Cultivator team in Dubai, so I got a peek at obviously some of the
Speaker:challenges in some of those regions, and it seems like it's ripe for growth. But
Speaker:do you feel like maintaining that focus in the States is the best approach for
Speaker:where you're headed right now? For now, yes. I mean, as a business, the most
Speaker:important thing is that we execute on these first 5 farms in Arizona in 2023,
Speaker:period. Now, that doesn't mean that we don't take any conversations
Speaker:anywhere else, of course, but that's fundamentally what we have to do as a
Speaker:business this year in order to be able to make the difference that we want
Speaker:to make. Now, in 2024, when we're outscaling that technology
Speaker:with our partner in the United States, we will rekindle many
Speaker:of these conversations or act upon many of these conversations and turn them
Speaker:into partnerships, customer-vendor partnerships. But
Speaker:the focus, you know, we're still out, believe me, mate, don't get me wrong, we're
Speaker:still out talking. That's why we— that's why I met you in the first place.
Speaker:We're still out talking to potential customers about where we can deploy these facilities.
Speaker:The focus of this business absolutely is on the number one
Speaker:problem in vertical farming, in my opinion, which is demonstrating
Speaker:production at scale. For me, that is clearly the number one
Speaker:problem. Unit economics weaves into that. Electrical consumption
Speaker:weaves into that, you know, production surety weaves into that.
Speaker:The number one problem, dude, is that no one has
Speaker:really successfully shown vertical farming production at scale hitting
Speaker:unit economics reliably. That's so hard. And that's the number one thing that we should
Speaker:all be focusing on. And the greenhouses do it so
Speaker:unbelievably well. Yeah. Imperfectly, but unbelievably
Speaker:well. We need to learn a couple more lessons from the greenhouse industry. I think
Speaker:before we get to that scale, that's the number one problem, dude. Like, whenever we
Speaker:have conversations with distributors, with retailers, farm
Speaker:customers, they're desperate for vertically farmed product. You know, there's
Speaker:all this discussion about unit economics and how large is the market and all this
Speaker:kind of stuff. Yes, good questions. The primary question is get this stuff to
Speaker:scale somehow, you know, start fulfilling a market need. How's your
Speaker:partnership with Cultivated been? That— is it still early days or
Speaker:What's been your— Relatively early days. So we really like those guys. They've set up
Speaker:a great business. They have a big funnel that just demonstrates the interest in vertical
Speaker:farming technology and greenhouse, just typically CEA or indoor farming.
Speaker:You know, they— it's good because they have the connections in the
Speaker:markets where they can cultivate those customer relationships and really
Speaker:understand what that customer wants to achieve. As you
Speaker:alluded to before, I'd love to address the question is, where does vertical farming apply?
Speaker:Where does it should not apply. That's it. That needs to be spoken about. So
Speaker:they do a great job of triaging and applying customers where they need
Speaker:to be, sending customers where they need to be sent. But yeah, the
Speaker:Cultivated relationship is great for us so far. Very good. So as
Speaker:we wrap up, I'd like to leave a little space at the end of these
Speaker:conversations. Given the audience, we've got a lot of your peers listening to the
Speaker:show now, friends and leaders in the space. What message
Speaker:do you have for folks this industry at this current
Speaker:date and time that we're at? Integrate more than you invent.
Speaker:Focus on scale production. Focus on the unsexy stuff.
Speaker:I reckon the best thing any vertical farming business can
Speaker:do for this industry and for the Earth is to demonstrate large-scale production,
Speaker:period. When I see Bowery's next facility up and running and
Speaker:Plenty's next facility up and running, when I see IGS being prolific
Speaker:operated throughout the world. I love this, dude. I
Speaker:love it. And part of it is this thick competitive thing that
Speaker:I think I probably have, but also it is just that humble
Speaker:gratitude for the hard work that all these other businesses are doing to
Speaker:scale this technology. It's a combination of those 2 things. So that
Speaker:would probably be my advice. Be patient. It's easy to say to the
Speaker:businesses. That's hard to say to the investors. But yeah, I think that would probably
Speaker:be my advice, Harry. Well, I want to thank you for taking the time
Speaker:to come on and share your story. It's really inspiring to see your
Speaker:journey, and definitely I appreciate you bringing the energy to the conversation as well, because
Speaker:that's always fun, makes it more enjoyable for the listener as well. Any
Speaker:parting words, any thoughts about where we're headed and what has you most excited? I
Speaker:always try and end these somewhat philosophically, probably to the
Speaker:chagrin of the podcast hosts, but too much
Speaker:time in my opinion, is spent
Speaker:on the negative. And this is global. You know, there was a recent study that
Speaker:came out on what traits were most
Speaker:shared amongst the most successful people. The number one trait, or the number one
Speaker:sort of, I would just say this mental habit, is optimism. I
Speaker:think optimism, exaggerated optimism,
Speaker:it is that which drives me. I am
Speaker:dense I am disproportionately
Speaker:optimistic about the future. I don't share this belief that the world is
Speaker:going to hell in a handbasket in the next 12 months or 12 years.
Speaker:I have an incredible faith in
Speaker:humanity's ability to weather the storm. And I think we should invest
Speaker:more of our time thinking about how to weather the storm as opposed to talking
Speaker:about the freaking storm. And that goes beyond just figurative, if I may.
Speaker:So yeah, that's— I suppose those would be my parting words. And invest your
Speaker:time in things that won't appear on Instagram.
Speaker:Very well said. Nice way to put a ribbon on this conversation. So
Speaker:thanks again. 1.1.com for folks to get connected
Speaker:with the company. Anywhere else you want to send folks to learn more about you
Speaker:or the company? Sure. I mean, LinkedIn,
Speaker:www.willow.farm— Willow with no W at the end, ends in an O. Those are the
Speaker:places where you can learn most about us. And I'd encourage any
Speaker:listeners who are interested in introducing high-quality produce
Speaker:into their communities, reach out. We'd love to partner with you.
Speaker:Thanks again for your time. I really appreciate it. Thanks again to Samuel for coming
Speaker:on the show and sharing his incredibly inspiring story. Love
Speaker:when guests bring the energy, bring the enthusiasm, and Samuel
Speaker:definitely did not disappoint. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did.
Speaker:Special thanks to our Season 8 title sponsor, Cultivatd. If you are looking into a
Speaker:vertical farm and don't know where to start or which technology would suit your needs,
Speaker:reach out to them today. Best of all, their service is free because they work
Speaker:on behalf of their partners. Learn more at cultivatd.com, and that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com. Just leave out that last E.
Speaker:Podcast production marketing provided by Fullcast. Learn more at fullcast.co
Speaker:and see if a podcast is just what your brand or
Speaker:business needs next. Now, as a reminder, if you enjoyed this show or past episodes,
Speaker:please leave us a rating and a review at ratethispodcast.com/vfp.
Speaker:I promise to read those out on a future episode. And how excited would you
Speaker:be if you heard yourself on this show? Totally.
Speaker:Tune in next week for my conversation with another
Speaker:fascinating leader from the world of vertical farming. Next week, we've got something
Speaker:special planned. We're going to be dropping 2 episodes in advance of
Speaker:Indoor AgTech NYC. We've got conversations coming up with Kiana
Speaker:Mickey, the director of the Urban Ag
Speaker:Movement in New York City, a great conversation, and a return
Speaker:engagement from Nona Yehia of Vertical Harvest Farms.
Speaker:Amazing, inspiring, that's the, the 2 words that come to mind when I think
Speaker:about Nona and the work that they're doing and the new projects they've got
Speaker:coming up. So stay tuned for those, both of those dropping Until we
Speaker:meet again, here's to your health. Thanks for listening. To read the full
Speaker:show notes for this episode, which includes any links mentioned in the
Speaker:episode, as well as a full show transcription, visit
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. There you can sign
Speaker:up for our email list to be notified when new episodes are published.
Speaker:$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
Speaker:Autonomous weeding robots dominated, and John Deere made 2 acquisitions in
Speaker:3 months. A food company, not an equipment maker, bought a
Speaker:robotics startup to protect its own supply chain. The deals are
Speaker:accelerating, the money is moving, and the winners are already separating from the
Speaker:pack. If you're investing, building, or buying in this space,
Speaker:you need the full picture before your competitors get it. The 2025
Speaker:Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report from iGrow News is
Speaker:now available. Get your copy today at
Speaker:igrownews.com/precision.
