Shownotes
Is it possible to truly stick to your New Year’s resolutions? This week, The Grit Show spotlights why big changes feel impossible at the start of every year. Shawna Rodrigues and Dr. Kelly Hamilton, a specialist in organizational psychology, reveal the science of the “fresh start effect,” explore hidden competing agreements, and introduce the Positive Intelligence Framework. These tools help listeners identify why their inner perfectionist, people pleaser, or rebel might be running the show—and what realistic steps can be taken to make real change.
Curious about habit formation and how self-compassion fits in? Tune in for motivational tactics, expert insight, and a fresh perspective that could shake up your approach to personal development and goal setting.
Kelly Hamilton, PhD, is an executive coach, consultant, and organizational psychologist who helps leaders deepen self-awareness so they can lead with greater courage, creativity, and resilience. His coaching blends psychological science with real-world experience, giving clients both the insight and the practical tools to navigate growth, transition, and complexity with more confidence. He works with values-driven leaders who want to grow with intention and lead with greater authenticity and impact.
Before becoming an organizational psychologist, Kelly spent 15 years co-founding and leading media and marketing firms—bringing a pragmatic, entrepreneurial edge to his evidence-based consulting. His research on inclusive leadership and the workplace experiences of LGBTQ+ individuals has been recognized by the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP).
Kelly earned his PhD in industrial-organizational psychology from Portland State University and has completed advanced training in the Co-Active coaching model.
Learn more about Kelly:
Instagram: @kellyhamiltonphd
LinkedIn: Kelly Hamilton, PhD
Substack: @kellyhamiltonphd
Interested in taking an assessment on your saboteurs? Find the link in Dr. Hamilton’s Substack Article
Here's the link to the episodes Shawna mentioned:
Episode 31 - with Gin Stephens Intermittent Fasting
Episode 125- with Will Halpin - IFS
Shawna Rodrigues has been hosting the The Grit Show, since 2022 and has loved every minute of it. She has an award winning career in the government and non-profit industry, an LCSW, and a passion for making a impact.
She is currently facing her biggest plot twist yet—a breast cancer diagnosis in early 2025—this year is about her fight, victory, and healing. Join her warrior community Being Honest and check out the podcast episode where she shares more.
Connect with her journey:
Instagram @Shawna.Rodrigues | Everything else: https://linktr.ee/37by27
Stay Connected to The Grit Show
Follow us on Instagram: @The.Grit.Show or Shawna @ShawnaPodcasts
Grab your copy of our Self-Care Coloring Pages & as a bonus, you’ll get weekly email reminders when episodes come out!
https://ColoringPages.TheGritShow.com
You can also purchase the full-size gift worthy Color of Grit Adult Coloring Book here bit.ly/TGSMermaid
Really love us and want to show it??
Give us a review on your favorite platform and share this (or any) episode with a friend.
Word of mouth builds podcasts - we appreciate your support!!
Transcripts
We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.
Shawna Rodrigues [:It's that time of year again.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Fresh calendars, big plans, and somewhere in the back of your mind a quiet voice whispering that this year probably won't.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Be any different than the last.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Today on The Grit Show, I'm talking with Dr. Kelly Hamilton about why change feels so hard, especially at the start of a new year.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Before we even get to February.
Shawna Rodrigues [:We've been through that cycle enough to know the pattern. But what if the problem isn't the goal itself? After all, we do want to get better. The fact you listen to this podcast shows you are someone who cares about self improvement and about making changes that can last. So what if it's something deeper? What if it is these voices, these parts of ourselves that show up right when we're trying to make a change? Perhaps our inner critic, that part of us is a perfectionist, or maybe our people pleaser. These saboteurs have a way of hijacking our best intentions and most of us don't even realize that they're running the show or where they're even coming from, and that they probably started from a good place and with good intentions. Today on the Grit Show, I'm talking with Dr. Kelly Hamilton about why change feels so hard, especially at the start of a new year. We're going to explore what these saboteurs actually are, how to recognize them when they're driving your decisions, and most importantly, what we can actually do about them.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Kelly introduces us to some simple and practical ways that we can actually address them. If you're ready to make 2026 the year you finally break the cycle, this conversation is for you.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Welcome to The Grit Show where our focus is growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm honored to be part of this community as we journey together with our grit intact to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today. As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates a friend that thinks of them and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Today I get to introduce you all to Dr. Stacy Hamilton.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Kelly Hamilton.
Kelly Hamilton [:Uh, thanks for having me, Shawna. Super excited to talk to you.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And I think this is great timing because we are on the cusp of the new year and even though a lot of us are in this holiday mindset, a lot of us are staring down that we only have a few more weeks left of 2025. And as we're looking forward to that, I would love for us to have a conversation. Looking at 2025, where do you think a lot of people are at when they start to think about New Year, new you, what they want to do differently in the coming year?
Kelly Hamilton [:Yes. So looking at 2026 is on all of our minds, I think, Shawna, it's so interesting. I was looking into this around New Year's resolutions and New Year's goals, like the research behind, like, why we even do it, you know, if you've read much about that. But it's so interesting. It's sort of this temporal or time based moment, like New Year's, our birthdays, where researchers have found that it creates this little distance because it interrupts the day to day. Yeah, A normal day to day where we go, oh, there's this opportunity to turn the chapter and a little bit of psychological distance is created where we can think, oh, I have new ideas about myself. You know, there's a sort of an opportunity to change things up. You can kind of take a step back.
Kelly Hamilton [:So that makes sense. Like, I think intuitively know that, but it also, that then creates this like, attachment to the new me. Right. Like I will I do this for myself around my birthday. Do you notice for yourself? Birthday or New Year's, like, where do you start to think about both?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh, well, luckily, my birthday is six months after Christmas and six months before Christmas. So, like, for me, it's like this nice thing that both of them are, like, this equidistant from each other. So both are times when I think. I start to think about this is a new beginning for things, if that makes sense.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, yeah. So it's like, because time has interrupted, there's these moments where we naturally take a step back and look at our lives from this wider lens, and we go, hey, how am I doing? And what do I want to do next? Or who I want to be next? But what they found is they call it a fresh start effect, where there's this just, like, old me, new me. And so there is that slogan of, like, new you, new me. But there is some truth to that. Like, I get to kind of think about this fresh start. And, you know, it's. It's something that I think you're right. Like, I'm already starting to do it.
Kelly Hamilton [:I think about things kind of slow down around Thanksgiving here in the US and it's just like, okay, I feel like I want to think about this for 2026. So how do I slow down more? How do I work out more? You know, we all have these certain. There are some trends in the types of goals we set, but that's sort of what I think is already on all of our minds, is kind of, how do we want to be and how do we want to change in the new year?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. I've never been a fan of New Year's resolutions, so to speak, and yet I find myself telling everyone, because 2025 has been the year that I had breast cancer, and I've had all this medical stuff just kind of take over. And so I see myself looking for 2026 for all of this change for me, that I get to focus on something different. I want my medical stuff to be in the background and health to be the focus for the new year, and I want for my business to shift. So it's so funny that as much as resolutions aren't my thing, I still have this very much, like, new start mentality. About 2026 needs to be a different focus for me. And honestly, I'll be disappointed if a lot of that follows me into the new year.
Kelly Hamilton [:Right. Yes. I want to close that chapter. Yes. And have a new one. I'm with you. I don't like resolutions either. I think when I was a younger person, I used that, and I was like, yeah, resolution.
Kelly Hamilton [:I want to stop doing this. I feel it now. It's too negative or constrictive, like too negative for me to think. What do I. It makes me think about things I need to stop or things I need to promise. Right. Or what I'm going to resolve to do. And it just makes me way too perfectionistic, which we'll get into in a moment.
Kelly Hamilton [:Like this sort of voices come online like ah. Whereas intentions or goals is more where I start. I like to think of them as right. So however we want to think about it, for all of us, it's like change. Right. How do we. What change starts to be a thought.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. I love that. I love that. So let's talk a little bit because we're going to get into that a lot. But I would love for us to talk a little bit more about your specific background in training. And industrial and organizational psychology is not something a lot of people know about. So tell us a little bit more about what led you to that and a little bit about your coaching and kind of what you do.
Kelly Hamilton [:Sure. So I am an executive coach and a consultant and yes, my background now is in industrial organizational psychology, which is just a fancy way of saying that I study how people show up at work and manage their careers. So it's the science of human behavior at work. And I'm a career changer. So I previously had a 15 year career as a founder and owner of a media company based here in St. Louis, where I live now. And I built that and ran that with partners and it was fun and exciting and all the things you can imagine of the magazine, if you remember those, we all read magazines and it was a great time. I learned a lot.
Kelly Hamilton [:And over time, really, we were very young when we started, we were early 20s. So we learned a lot of lessons along the way about building a team, motivating a team, all the things you could imagine running a business. And decided at some point, late 30s, but you know, what's next for me? You know, thinking about big changes, career change, growth. I love your slogan growth on purpose because it took a lot of stepping back and thinking about my work identity, which was so tied to my company, which can happen for so many founders, of course, and worked with the coach to really get clear on where did I want to go next, where did I want to grow next and what did I need. And it took a lot of work. So then I decided to go ahead and take a fresh start, if you will. But it really was something that I was aware of for a while. It wasn't like an overnight awareness, right it was growing over time, probably about five years, and then was like ready to make the jump.
Kelly Hamilton [:So I decided to apply for full time PhD program and moved across the country from here to Portland, Oregon, entered a PhD program that started the day after I turned 40 and I did that through my five years and then came back and doing it now. So that's the big career move that I'm proud to have made and definitely, definitely grew on purpose again. I love your slogan. Yeah. So I get to coach people, I get to work. I spend my days helping leaders and entrepreneurs. But leaders in corporations or entrepreneurs better understand themselves and their patterns so they can make the changes they want to make and lead their teams the way they want to lead them and show up authentically and act with courage and creativity in an increasingly complex world.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That's so important. I think it's amazing how much we expect individuals to step into roles and develop into who they need to be to do the work in powerful ways and just expect that to happen naturally and not understand how much reflection and work that requires. So it's so powerful to have individuals like yourself that are doing that type of work to really develop and hone that and to do that. So this is very important and we're so grateful to have you here talking to us more about this.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, thanks. Excited. Thanks for having me.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. As we look to the New Year and all of us reflecting on, like, what we'd like to see different for ourselves. And I feel like with New Year's, the weather too, I feel like we're kind of almost hibernating a little bit right now. And like, I mean, how we want to come out the other side of it a little bit as we get these cozy days when it's rainy or snowy and whatever else to see, like how we want to like burgeon into spring and come out differently. Right. A little bit. So as we're having this reflective period, what do you think, like, prevents us from actually successfully doing this? Because I used to know the statistics on resolutions is not promising.
Kelly Hamilton [:Right. It's true. There's some newer research that shows that like 9% of Americans who make resolutions complete them. Not very high.
Shawna Rodrigues [:No, not very high.
Kelly Hamilton [:And that like 23% of people quit their resolutions by the end of the first week and 43% by the end of January. So we'll definitely spend a good amount of time getting into why that is. I also just want to note that there was research from just last year from the Pew center that found that as we age we set fewer resolutions. But I think that really it's what you and I just talked about, that we tend to frame it more around goals. We've also learned maybe not great, maybe what we failed in the past, getting at those statistics. If I've already quit most of the time by January, by end of January, then maybe I'm not going to set them anymore. So I don't like that. Then I'm just naming that that is also true, that we might have kind of gotten burned on our own goal setting in the past.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes, yes. And that's not just setting that just having a resolution isn't what we need, that there's actually more to it. And I think that there's like an eating pattern difference that I made. And I actually had a guest, Stacy Stevens, talked about intermittent fasting, which that term always scared me. And then she came on, I learned from her and I actually like started like little steps. And that's like the key, right, with habit change is little steps. And so I started doing the first step was not to drink sugary drinks. And I did that for all of December.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And then like by January, I was starting to think about like doing the window thing. So it was not set on the time of year. It was actually set on my me learning what I needed and changing my habits and doing small habit changes over time instead of just like one day waking up and now I'm going to be somebody different, which is the resolutions kind of imply, right?
Kelly Hamilton [:Yes. So I think that a few things tend to get in our ways of actually accomplishing. One is that we tend to set overly ambitious goals. You know, as humans, we're prone to the planning fallacy, which is that we vastly underestimate how much time and effort it takes to do things. And you just mentioned habit change takes on average about two months for like habits, new habits to really be something that's more automatic for us. Some research totally even takes longer than that. But that's one thing is that we tend to over plan. So we might decide to overhaul our entire lives in December.
Kelly Hamilton [:Like right now, like, we've just eaten too much at Thanksgiving. We eat all the things in December. And then we want to overhaul our entire lives by January. Like, let's work out more, let's don't eat this, let's not do this. And then we get overwhelmed by mid January and think we failed. But in reality we just didn't set as realistic of goals. That's like the first thing that happens. Another one is we have these hidden Competing agreements with ourselves.
Kelly Hamilton [:That's a word I'm borrowing from Robert Keegan and Lisa Lay's research on immunity to change. Are you familiar with this one?
Shawna Rodrigues [:No, but I love it. It's resonating just the words you're using.
Kelly Hamilton [:They call it hidden competing agreement. And the research found that even when we really want a change, we often have an unconscious competing agreement to something else that's blocking the new goal. So for example, if I have a goal to launch a podcast or do more writing or work out five days a week, any of those, I may not realize that I unconsciously not going to follow through because I've already committed to spending more time with my family or getting a promotion at work or whatever it is it's gonna like. Time is time, right? We can't create more things. So I love that frame framework to go, you know what, there's a hidden competing agreement here. Like this is why I'm not showing up to buckle. It's because I've already said I'm gonna do this other thing. And so I like.
Kelly Hamilton [:What I like about that is that it also makes it conscious. If I can make it conscious, then it allows me to, I don't know, forgive myself and have a little self compassion, change my goals. I don't know, what does it bring up for you?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Well, I think it brings up, brings it to the. I love like the hidden. I just love that term. Hitting competing agreement. Like that just like brings so much to light, right, that we, that we have that. I'm like, oh yeah, that totally names it. And it also brings the saying to mind that like every time you say yes, you're saying no to something. And that people don't recognize that by saying yes to this, they have to say no to something else.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And they just keep saying yes to everything. But that's not possible. So you had to figure out what you're saying no to by saying yes to this. And that hidden agreement is what you're not realizing that yes, you told your child you would put them to bed every night, but you also said yes to being on this committee that's going to have evening meetings that you can't possibly put your child to bed every night because you're going to be doing this meeting that's going to be doing this. And if you also have to get this project done no matter how late you work, then you can't possibly also do this. So realizing like what the cost of things. Because people. The hidden costs, right? The hidden cost of things goes to that hidden competing agreements that you don't realize the hidden costs of things that you're, that you're paying constantly not recognizing that this there.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, I love your example of putting the kids to bed every night. You're going to compete with being on a committee. So maybe someone has a goal of hey, I really want to get involved in the new year with, you know like my kids school or some other organization that I want to volunteer for maybe as part of their goal setting. It's. Are there any other commitments that might keep me from doing? This is sort of an idea of like a way for people to proactively kind of catch it. Catch it. Yeah. So that's the second one.
Kelly Hamilton [:It's really powerful because they just sort of pull us back to our old behaviors. Like so in two weeks into the year or a month into the year, we haven't made progress, we sort of like feel stuck. Right. It could be just because of this. So thinking about what they're falling victim to now, the third one is these inner patterns that we all have that just resist change. Humans don't really like change anyway. You know, we're used to like predictability. But we also all have our own special mix of limiting beliefs about ourselves and mental habits.
Kelly Hamilton [:Things that hold us back when we want to make change. And we can refer to those as saboteurs. So this is like when you hear about like the phrase getting in our own way. This is what we're talking about, you know, like, you know, you hear that and I'm like, what do you mean getting in my own way? Well, we do get in our own way. I don't really like that phrase, but it makes sense. It's like self sabotage. This is like this idea.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes, well, and I think that we don't even recognize all the things that we do or say to ourselves that is getting in our own way. And we say things like, oh, I'm just not good at math or oh, I'm just not good at eating healthy or I'm terrible at exercise and I don't do well at that. And it's not that to say if you said more specifically like, you know, when I get running, I tire easily because that's like resolvable. Because if I tire easily when I run, then I can build up so that I don't tire easily when I run. But if I say I'm bad at running, I'm not good at running, I don't do well with running. And you're like, well then you're not going to.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah. And like, where did that belief come from? And it could be that there's something there from your, your past experiences with running. Like, you didn't like it. It could just be like, hey, I don't like running.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:Having a preference. But for some, sometimes it is that we have these inner, like, voices that come up that hold us back. At one point in time, they were trying to protect us, but they become blocks. And so you would call these saboteurs. You want to talk about what that is?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes, I'd love to.
Kelly Hamilton [:Okay. So the term saboteur, for those who aren't a sponsor familiar, comes from this framework called the Positive Intelligence Framework, called PQ for short. It was created by this gentleman, Shahzad Shami. He was a longtime executive coach, faculty member at Stanford. And he developed this model as a way for leaders to recognize these internal patterns that get in their way as things like perfectionism, inner criticism, people pleasing, overachieving. I see your head nodding because we're on the video, but it's like, these are things that can come up for all of us. Some of us have all of them. Right.
Kelly Hamilton [:And in PQ, a saboteur is basically a protective mental habit. So it once developed, help you succeed or stay safe, but now just limits you or blocks you from a change. So if you think about in leadership development or in your career, you may want to take opportunities or a challenging work assignment that would help you with this goal of maybe moving up. But for some reason, you might not be aware of it, but you might be holding back, sort of taking the assignment because of some fear, for example. Right. So it's similar, you know, this is used, this framework is used a lot in performance coaching and leadership development. It is not a therapy model, but it's a lot like internal family systems like IFS. So it does overlap a lot with models that some people may know, and I know you're familiar with this one.
Kelly Hamilton [:So in IFS, they talk about parts and these different internal voices that came online to try to protect us. The similarity is that both frameworks assume these patterns aren't malicious. You know, they didn't develop to harm us. The opposite, they developed to protect us and they're adapted. Right. So we learned then early on. The difference again is that IFS is a clinical therapy approach. This one PQ was developed specifically for coaching and performance and daily decision making.
Kelly Hamilton [:So you'll also see echoes of this in coactive coaching, which was the one I was trained in. And so I use this a Lot the saboteurs with coaches where we'll talk about saboteurs. It's something that's creative. It's something that people can imagine for themselves. These like voices. Even Dick Schwartz, who created ifs, talked about parts as these inner beings inside. I love that. Like, who is this little.
Kelly Hamilton [:This little guy inside me who's trying to be overly perfectionistic, for example? I think it is very creative. So in a work context or with coaching. I'm not a therapist, so we're not doing therapy with parts work to heal deep trauma per se. Right. But we are thinking about, like, where do you want to go from. Right from now to where you. Where do you want to go, all your goals, what's coming up that's holding you back or getting you stuck?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yeah.
Shawna Rodrigues [:So when you say coactive coaching, what is the unique thing about the coactive coaching model or what does that mean when you say coactive?
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, yeah. Coactive coaching was from Coactive Training Institute. They are the coaching training program that's for dance training education. And it's been around the oldest and longest in the US and so really pioneers in the coaching industry. The meaning of the word coactive is getting at sort of like being and doing. A lot of us in coaching, sometimes we come to coaching because we really want to just change our behavior or we want something to change our lives. Of course, big benefit to kind of the being state as well. So they use this corrective model.
Kelly Hamilton [:We play a lot with that. And so something like saboteurs is an example of like staying present in the moment to experience, like, what is going on, rather than just trying to make a big change in our skills or our behaviors or whatever at work. We have to explore. So don't allow for a little more playful chill. So if you come and you're like, okay, I'm struggling with this. Well, what's coming up? You know, I'm noticing a saboteur. Is there a saboteur here? So we can kind of like play with it a little bit to get a little deeper.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Nice. So it's not just it's doing, but it's also the deeper understanding and the reflective piece. So it has both, like this internal element as well as an external element.
Kelly Hamilton [:Because we. I feel like we have to be able to get into some depth to really understand our deeper patterns. And that's a big part of before change is self awareness, right?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes, exactly. That's fabulous. So that's what. That's what differentiates that from just the coaching models.
Kelly Hamilton [:Sure. Yeah. So there's, of course, the inner critic, and that would be one that is universal to all of us, for sure. That one forms usually to help us avoid mistakes or embarrassment. Right. So later in life, it can make us be afraid to take on challenges or new opportunities because we have a sort of harsh inner judge that's telling us we're not doing something right or we might get it wrong, then maybe don't even try. Right.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:The perfectionist, aka mine, is called Mr. Stickler.
Shawna Rodrigues [:I like that he has a name. Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah. That usually developed to get approval, to get maintained safety, to sort of stand out. It kind of, for me, it kind of made me bulletproof at a young age. I was new. I'm part of the LGBT community. Back in the 90s in Texas, it was not a place where you came out. And so there was a overachieving. And that's a different saboteur.
Kelly Hamilton [:But, hey, Mr. Stickler and a hyperachiever are BFF. Okay.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:Double whammy. I'm going to be the best. I'm going to make it perfect, and then no one can really judge me for anything because I'm going to be the best. Right. And so there's a way for us to get self worth and value through achievement and through making things really good and high quality. You can imagine how as a kid, that, you know, or younger self, that could really help me get some needs met. You know, it was adaptive.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:But then later it's like it could just block me. So it could just make me over prepare for things that. And not trust myself. Right. At this point, it's like, I don't need him around all the time.
Kelly Hamilton [:Like, I got. I got it. I'm good.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yeah. So the perfectionist is like, you're gonna work those 80 hours to finish the project instead of be able to get it done in 60 hours. Cause it has to be perfect. There's nothing less than perfect. And then when somebody comes back and they've changed the goalpost for you, it's a complete meltdown because you did it perfect according to that. And so that's the way it's sabotaging you. Because nothing can truly be perfect either, really. So that's the way it's sabotaging you.
Kelly Hamilton [:Totally. So in like the example of like a New Year's goal, it's like, okay, well, if I. If I set a goal, like, let's go to the gym. I'm going to go to the gym five days a week. I'm like, really motivated. To get that best year fitness in my life. Let's do this. Well, like three weeks later, I have only been able to make it two days a week. And if Stacy has a strong inner perfectionist, then that guy shows up and is like, the whole thing's alone. Yeah. Like, wasn't at the quality, at the level that I expected of myself. So that's gonna be leading me to maybe abandon the goal. It's kind of like, okay, it's not perfect. Like, where do I go from here? And then if you've got that hyperachiever. That's what made me set that five day a week. Like, who was that? Why was I even saying five days a week in the first place? It's horrible.
Kelly Hamilton [:Well, if I have a strong inner perfectionist, then that guy shows up and is like, the whole thing's alone. Yeah. Like, wasn't at the quality, at the level that I expected of myself. So that's gonna be leading me to maybe abandon the goal. It's kind of like, okay, it's not perfect. Like, where do I go from here? And then if you've got that hyperachiever. That's what made me set that five day a week. Like, who was that? Why was I even saying five days a week in the first place? It's horrible.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yes. But now that I have a worries on that, I am not saying what kind of goal. It's like I said, a new habit. Start small.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. And when you show up and like the parking lot is completely full at the gym, so you can't go to the gym because there's nowhere to park and you have a meeting at a certain time. So then when you do park like 10 miles away and then had to walk to the gym and then you get there and you can only be on the machine for 15 minutes because you still have to shower before you have to leave for work. Then you didn't eat that perfect thing. And so why are you even doing this? Instead of being able to look at all the other factors that made it so that it's impossible to be perfect with the real world. Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:So fitness goals, like the number one goal most people set are health related goals. Right. So let's say someone doesn't have the strong perfectionist part. Let's say they have a people pleaser part, a strong inner people pleaser. That part developed also probably from a young age to stay safe, to get some needs met. And then now, later, later in life, it can block them from following through on goals or change or setting boundaries. Right. With something like a fitness goal or health goal, going to the gym, they're going to feel stuck. But if Stacy feels stuck between, hey, my friend wants to see me or my family, my parents really want me to come over every evening or whatever it is. There's going to be a strong need to please and starting to please. That's going to pull them away from their goal. Right. It's got to be aware of like these things are going to show up because they're going to create inner conflict in ways. They're going to make us not know what to do because you know it's going to hold us back from following through on the change we want for ourselves. It's really about what do I want and need? And how is the strong voice like jumping in and making us not follow through?
Kelly Hamilton [:They could feel stuck between, hey, my friend wants to see me or my family, my parents really want me to come over every evening or whatever it is. There's going to be a strong need to please and starting to please. That's going to pull them away from their goal. Right. It's got to be aware of like these things are going to show up because they're going to create inner conflict in ways. They're going to make us not know what to do because you know it's going to hold us back from following through on the change we want for ourselves. It's really about what do I want and need? And how is the strong voice like jumping in and making us not follow through?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. How many different areas are there for saboteurs? Is there like we basically all have the same set of ones that we can go to or.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, really like if they would say it's a creative realm. So there could be many more that you might come up with on your own. As people start to play with this and get to know it, they do name like let's say about 15 of them. So they are sort of the ones that are out there and most of a lot of us have. But it doesn't mean that we all have them or that all of them are very loud. So for example, there's the judge or the inner critic, AKA the judge.
Kelly Hamilton [:We all have that. The perfectionistic part, there's the hyperachiever, the pleaser, there's hyper vigilant. So hyper vigilant would be keeping us safe where environments were unpredictable, maybe in our younger years. So sort of this vigilant is always like looking out for threats. And I have a bit of this too. It's kind of like, is someone going to be maybe like, is the other shoe going to drop or it's fear based. Right. That can make us just feel overly vigilant and lead to some anxiety.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yes. And finding the things that are actually keeping you from achieving what you're setting out to do, whether that's specific goals or that's whether it's hindering your relationships or hindering your success at work or hindering your ability to get what you want, really. So what's the antidote? What do you do about this then? If that's keeping you from getting to where you want to be, right?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. And finding the things that are actually keeping you from achieving what you're setting out to do, whether that's specific goals or that's whether it's hindering your relationships or hindering your success at work or hindering your ability to get what you want, really. So what's the antidote? What do you do about this then? If that's keeping you from Getting to where you want to be, right?
Kelly Hamilton [:So if you think about the in general saboteurs, I think it's first, it's getting familiar with what yours are because how they play out, who they are for me and who they are for you maybe are going to be different. And how they show up for me versus you also might be different. Thinking about the New Year's goals and how this would apply. If you're thinking about that health related goal and you set a goal of changing your diet or going to the gym three days a week, it's a better goal. Then you still might have the perfectionistic part. If that's a strong noisy voice for you or this people pleasing part shows and goes, if I do that, then I'm going to disappoint this other person, right? Or if I don't hit it three times a week every week, then I've failed and maybe I should just give up on the full goal entirely. I don't know about you, Stacy, but I've had that before where I'm like, if I set a New Year's goal, I'm going to do something at a certain frequency of the week. I'm an inner rebel, which is a totally different saboteur.
Kelly Hamilton [:Okay. My inner rebel's like, oh yeah, you think so? Also, you know, I'm going to watch Game of Thrones again or something or whatever. So there's just this inner little battle. Right. So let's say any of those Salvatore shows up. Well, I want to go to writing yourself a big fat permission slip. Okay. This is one thing that I think people can go to, which is especially for perfectionistic folks, people with this inner pleaser.
Kelly Hamilton [:Because both of those have to do with other people's validation of you and like other people's priorities at times. Right. And saying permission slipped. This is borrowing. Brene Brown includes it in one of her books and I've seen it at a couple of other places, but I love it because it is giving yourself permission to set a boundary, do what you need to do. That might be what the inner people pleaser needs to be told, right?
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. And I think it's, I think it's valuable because I think that first piece you talked about, about having that reflection to see, like which thing resonated. So like for me, if it was the avoider, that resonated, right? So I feel like that I avoid things that are hard. And so if I'm like, I'll just say I'm going to do the gym and then I avoid going. But actually I need to like start the process to go to the gym or whatever else. And so I give myself permission that if I don't go to the gym the first day, that means I'm not going to start the process and at least, you know, put on my gym shoes and go on a walk until I get to the gym after the first three weeks when everyone else stops going. Right. And so I give myself a permission slip that like tailors to what my saboteur is.
Shawna Rodrigues [:If mine was a voider and if it's people pleasing that like I'll do it even if, if it's important to me to get to the gym. And I know it's going to disappoint my boss that I didn't get them coffee on the way to work because I went to the gym and it took longer that I'm still going to go to the gym even though I feel that tinge when I walk by my boss, I don't have them coffee in the morning. So that you yourself that permission to like get past what you know is your saboteur. So whichever one that it might be.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yes. I love that you said to get past because that is something we would work with, including in coaching is like, how do you bypass the saboteur? Because again, the saboteur is trying to help you in some way, shape or form or trying to protect you. But you gotta be like, okay, thank you and a people pleaser. I know you were helping me before, but for now I have a new I'm okay and I want to do this for myself. So please have to go find another job to do, you know, so just bypassing. So I love that.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Thank you, Mr. Stickler. But hey, that I didn't go five times this week. I am actually only need to go three times a week or twice a week and I'm still making progress.
Kelly Hamilton [:So permission to not be perfect, right? To take small experiments, Permission to change the goal. But that might be because it's the professional stick. But I'm like I said it was going to be five days a week and then a credit comes online. Well, why do you change the goal? What's wrong with you? So giving yourself permission to change the goal, to show up for yourself to whatever it is that you need to do to basically feel okay making the change you want to make is one strategy.
Shawna Rodrigues [:No, I absolutely love that. I absolutely love that. I think that's the biggest thing for us to walk away with as we reflect about the change we want to make because it's already percolating. All of us have something that's on that back burner that's probably going to rise to the surface this month as we prepare for the new year. That, as that happens to start, like, recognizing, like, well, what has gotten the way in the past, especially, as you said, at our age, we're less likely to be making a lot of resolutions or goals because, like, we. We probably burned ourselves in the past. So what can we do differently? And that can be to. To know, like, what saboteur might have gotten in our way, and then to give ourselves a permission slip.
Shawna Rodrigues [:To say, like, this is. I give myself permission to only go two days a week. My goal might be three days a week, but I give myself permission to only go two days a week. And if I go one day a week, I'm still making progress. Or I gave myself permission to have a twinge when I'm not pleasing everyone else because I'm reaching this goal. And that. That's okay. That I'll have that twinge and I'll still work towards my goal even though I have that twinge.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And that will. I won't let that stop me.
Kelly Hamilton [:Love it. There's another thing that I like to do and give people that we could talk about briefly, that is around expanding your inner board of directors. The Saboteurs are essentially these voices, right? And one phrase that we can use to describe these voices is our inner board of directors. You have positive voices there, too, that you can create, and there are some common ones that we could also talk about. But if we can, when we're trying to make changes, draw on these characters too, because they're allies, and that's what we call them, allies. So we have saboteurs and we have allies, and the allies are people like the inner champion, the inner character that really lifts you up and motivates you in a positive way. I have one that I love. It's the inner Maverick.
Kelly Hamilton [:It's kind of instead of the rebel. The Maverick is bold, a little disruptive, but willing to try something new when I can channel him. It's like, let's do this, and I'm going to try something new because it's like Maverick energy can kind of help me combat a little bit of a perfectionist who might want to, like, not who might want to wait until it's perfect. The Maverick be, like, more bold.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Step out a little bit.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Have you named your inner Maverick?
Kelly Hamilton [:I have not. I just called him Stacy. I probably need to give him a name.
Shawna Rodrigues [:You do. I like that. You gotta have. Mr. Stickler's gotta have like the opposite end of the spectrum a little bit.
Kelly Hamilton [:You know, and there's also like the inner artist, which I just created myself, but that's probably going to be a common one too. There's also the inner warrior, which should be like. Yeah, like drawing boundaries. Like when you need to draw boundaries, you've got a strong, people pleasing lavator. The inner warrior is sort of that one that can. They might even have a she or they might actually have like a sword or whatever. They need to draw boundaries and protect your needs. So I like playing with that.
Kelly Hamilton [:The sage is the one that's sort of that wise, grounded part, like the self, like the higher self. You'll see that in like iss. And so the sage is that grounded part that sees the bigger picture and that you kind of always want to come back to. And that could be like, if you think about your higher self, like you're the CEO, right? So you've got the board of directors, but you're. You get to be the CEO. So the goal is to be able to listen to all the parts and still choose who you want to tap into in a particular situation. Like showing up to your goals and not giving up on them. Right.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes, you heard from this side, but you also have more people to hear from and more input to receive so that you can get to your goals still and still achieve them. Even though you've heard this side, you can also hear this side to balance it out. I love that. That's fabulous.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah. So what else can we not cover? Yeah, another light.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That's been very valuable. I think that that's a lot for folks to kind of take in and look forward to processing and implementing as they look forward to their goals and their way of looking at this new start. I love the way of looking at this as a new start for the new year.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes, definitely. That's been very valuable. And I think that folks are going to want to keep in touch with you, Kelly. Like, what is the best way for people to follow you and keep in touch with you?
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, I would say the best way to follow me and keep in touch with me would be on folks. You know, I started writing there more and even talked about my inner Mr. Stickler in one of my first posts. So I do write a lot about these topics. And on Instagram, you can find me @kellyhamiltonphd on either platform.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Wonderful. We'll make sure that's the show notes as well as like your full bio so folks can get a little more depth to you.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And I hope you do a future post that shares what you've named the counter to Mr. Stickler.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That'd be very exciting. And I'm curious if we're. Do you think you're ever going to get to have your cartoons that go with this up on your substack? Because that would be very exciting to look forward to.
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, I think so. I think there's one out there already on maybe on the Stickler might be up there somewhere. And so yeah, I think I could. I'd like to have them dialoguing and talking to each other in a culture that's very exciting.
Shawna Rodrigues [:I love that.
Kelly Hamilton [:That's.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That's even more fun to look forward to on your substack. Like you have a lot to offer wisdom, wise sharing. But that'll be a fun little boon to be able to get there to see that as well. So that's a fun bonus. This has been very helpful and I really think so to drive home. I really think that what do you feel like is the most important step? Either that permission slip or that reflection piece. Which one do you think folks should kind of hone in on as they walk away from the podcast to take with them?
Kelly Hamilton [:Yeah, I would say to get ahead of some of the things that will come up later, like a month later, like set your goals based on how you want to be in the new year and then letting yourself in a month, give yourself permission to adjust the goal, to take them slow, kind of letting yourself know it's not going to be perfect and to adjust. And so that's the number one thing that I would want people to feel that when we're setting goals to know that it's okay for us to give ourselves permission to then change.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That's perfect. I think that's very helpful because that's probably why people don't complete them, because they're holding themselves to a standard they set in a different place before they have the real world application. So I think that's a beautiful way to continue your goals, to understand that you can adjust the goalposts to real life because when we set them, we're not always taken into account.
Kelly Hamilton [:Real life 100%.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That's so valuable.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Thank you so much, Kelly. This has been so helpful. I'm so excited for folks to be able to apply this and feel like they have the right mindset to move forward into the next year to follow you on substack and get that substack in late January. It'll probably be a great reminder for them.
Kelly Hamilton [:Thank you so much. This has been great. So good to meet with you and talk to you today.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Thank you.
Shawna Rodrigues [:I'd love for us to stay connected on Instagram @shawnapodcasts or @the.grit.show. There's even a link in bio @the.grit.show where you can send me an email to let me know what you thought about today's episode. Hearing from you helps to make the effort that goes into producing these episodes worthwhile.
Shawna Rodrigues [:I hope you realize that I'll be back again soon and I hope you're following along or subscribed so that you'll know and be here too.
