Chris Lindstrom is joined by Chef Tim Cashette of Avvino, Frenchman Street, La Bola, and The Duke Event Space. Tim shares insights about the evolution of Avvino since his last appearance on the show and opening 3 different concepts inside the Mercantile on Main. He also discusses the challenges and rewards of running a restaurant in a fluctuating economy and the importance of a dedicated team.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

@Avvino - La Bola (@labolarochester) - Frenchman Street (@frenchmanstreetroc) - The Duke Event Space (@thedukeroc) - Seasons Noodle (@seasonsnoodle.mercantile.roc) - Arbor Venues (@arborvenues)

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone. https://shop.joebeanroasters.com

I'm Chris Lindstrom, and this is the Food About Town podcast, Rochester.

Well, why Rochester?

Chris Lindstrom was a hoot.

He was just so much fun.

He never stopped talking.

I mean, it was great.

Here's a good idea.

Have a point.

It makes it so much more interesting.

For the listener, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.

Is that clear?

Because I'm a pro.

That's what pros do.

I'm a professional.

Look it up in the book.

But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.

And we are back with another episode of the Food About Town podcast for everybody that's listening.

Really appreciate you paying attention and, you know, listening to all of our fringe preview podcasts, it's been an absolute blast doing those, and hopefully you got out to a lot of fringe events, so thank you for that.

But today I'm here with a classic Food about talent episode, and I'm here with a guest.

Guest.

Why don't you introduce yourself?

I am Tim Kashat.

I guess I'm the owner and chef over at Aveeno, and me and my wife also own a couple of businesses downtown.

Lobola, Frenchman street, and also the Duke Event Space.

Yeah.

So, I mean, if people want to go back and learn all the history.

Interviewed Tim a long time ago at Aveeno.

It was way, way, way too long ago.

Exactly.

And this is like, I'm also, like, making an effort to reach out to people I've known forever and, like, actually trying to talk to them either again or for the first time.

Yeah, I know I'm a lot grayer and a lot balder and.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I resemble that remark, Tim.

Well, you know, age is a real bitch.

So I.

So kind of what I wanted to talk about is.

So, one, Aveeno still kicking out in Brighton, Pittsford area.

Yep.

And I will say right away, just to kick off our conversation about that is to this day, that is my.

When somebody comes and asks me, I have a special event.

I have this many people, and they have different, you know, preferences for dining.

I'm like.

I have, like, two places I ever send them to, and Aveeno is one of the two.

And I've never gotten a miss.

Oh, I've never had a miss from that.

And one, I gotta say thank you for that because one, it makes me look great.

I love.

I love that.

That's.

That's part of my goal, is make you look good.

So.

But that.

That means a lot to me that when I can recommend a place to somebody else, that they're asking, like, hey, I have this special event, and I know that you guys are gonna crush it and that everybody's going to feel like they're taken care of.

And to me, that's what Aveeno is.

Is like.

You guys are dedicated to consistency, quality service, not being too pretentious, and it's a place that everybody can have a good time.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, that was the goal when we set out.

My wife was the one that actually started the place before I even got there for the first year.

So, you know, it was.

You know, the whole idea behind it was, you know, kind of almost having, like, a Taverny kind of feel to it, but elevated.

You know, Brighton's a very small little town, but we're right next to, you know, downtown, so.

And, you know, the food's a little bit more eclectic than the first year that it was running, but I kind of like that, you know, it moves around, and I think there is kind of, like, something for everybody.

But, you know, we've been very lucky.

I mean, come on, being around this long in the restaurant business is, you know, sometimes you just don't realize how time, like, flies, and you're kind of.

Like, it really does.

Yeah.

You're kind of like, oh, my God, we've been doing this for, like, that long.

I mean, I couldn't.

You know, when we started, I was like, if we made it a decade, that would be pretty cool.

I'm, like, kind of.

It's already gone, you know, so.

Yeah, well.

And also, that has become, like, a real staple of the area, and I think that's, like, it.

It's something that does matter, because just being present, just being there, is a big accomplishment.

Being still around and executing matters, and people depend on it.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, a big thing for me, too, is I'm still.

You know, this wasn't my first real career.

I know we probably Talked about this 12 years ago, but, you know, I kind of pursued my passion to cook and.

And, you know, that I still really enjoy it.

I mean, like, I. I get kind of bummed out if I don't cook every day, and I think that really helps the energy and, you know, how it's not stagnant.

And I think people can feel that it's, you know, somebody is driving, you know, the ship there that's still kind of, you know, you know, interested in the food and cares, but, you know, that's.

We're very, very Very lucky.

But at the same time, I always say this.

I've taken my passions, this was my hobby, and I worked really hard and so did my wife.

But I've basically monetized just being around the things that I like.

I like my job and like what I do.

I really like my wife, so I get to spend all day with her and our dog is with us all the time.

So I'm like, I just kind of monetize being around the things that I like and co created kind of an environment that I can do that quasi successfully, I guess.

Yeah, well, and that's something we've been actually talking about a lot recently is compromise and the choices that come with doing a different following of your passions.

Right.

Like having a passion for cooking.

There are so many ways to go after that.

Especially now, like with all the information that's out there about, you know, home cooking and techniques and the availability of everything, all the information's out there.

Like you can be a passionate home cook and do all the things.

It's great.

I mean, there's so much information that people can rely on.

You know, I started this very late in my life.

I started cooking professionally when I was 28, and I'm deep into my 40s at this point.

But, you know, I didn't grow up with a family that worked in, you know, the restaurant industry.

I didn't go to culinary school early or any of those things.

What I see the kids now, they're like, you know, if they're making staff meal now, it's like they flip open and look on Google and they can find like a, like, you know, an okay recipe.

When I was younger and like, you know, the person that owned the place asked me to make the staff meal, which is basically something that like, you know, one of the kitchen staff once a week, basically has to cook for everybody because we don't want people to go into service hungry or, you know, it's gonna be hard for them to focus all that stuff.

So we kind of like, it's also.

Really camaraderie too, like that being present for each other a big part of that, because it can be.

It's a lot.

And there's also, you know, there's things to use up in the kitchen.

There's things that, you know, hey, what are we going to do with this?

We can make it for staff meal.

But back in the day, you were kind of just like left to your own devices and kind of like, you know, tearing your hair out.

Like, what am I going to do with all today, they just, like, flip open the thing, and just like, 30 seconds later, I'm like, oh, okay.

I'm like, that's not.

You know, the people I came up with that kind of use it as an exercise to be creative.

And what they're doing now is fine, too, because still, you know, feeding the staff and that's the most important thing.

But.

Yeah, but now I think it's, you know, you don't have that puzzle to figure out anymore.

They're just kind of like Google.

And then they're.

I'm like.

I'm like, huh, huh.

All right, I got to come up with a better exercise, I guess.

I mean, I kind of enjoy.

Like, I agree with you in many ways.

Like, I enjoy the process of.

All right, I'm just gonna see what I want to cook today, and I don't think about it too much anymore.

And it's so weird.

Like, my wife just went and visited one of her friends in Pennsylvania, and she was talking.

She was talking about how.

How challenging it was to try to teach somebody else who is, like, anxious about cooking.

And it's.

It's weird.

Like, I've gotten so far past anxious that I don't even.

I. I don't think about it much anymore.

It's like, oh, well, I have flavor.

I'm just going to use a flavor and then just decide what I'm doing on the fly and figure it out.

And taste and season.

And taste and season.

But I don't make dishes anymore.

I just make food.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's.

It's a very.

I love that idea, though, that, like, still.

That people are looking up recipes and trying different things, and you hope that, hey, you're going to take that.

Maybe you tried this Moroccan thing.

Maybe you tried this, you know, tried this dish from Yemen, and you're like, oh, Lem Salta.

Okay, well, we tried that, and now maybe we can use a technique from that and do something else.

And I.

You know, that's always the hope, you know, that.

That really is.

Because I.

You know, we try to create an environment, especially at Aveeno.

Like, you know, it's.

You know, I know the creative aspect of it is really under my charge, but I really try to keep it as collaborative as possible.

Yeah, I like ideas from everybody.

You know, I don't care where a good idea is a good idea.

So I. I like that.

And I. I keep it kind of loose there.

I kind of like that.

You know, we're all joking around, and we're all.

We're kind of all on the same page.

And I think that also helps to the.

The longevity that we've had people work for us.

You know, the guy that runs the kitchen one not there, which is right now, Sean, he's been.

He, you know, he came with the building.

My wife hired him before I actually took over the job.

And, you know, we have kids that I basically hired out of high school that are still with me.

Wow.

And, you know, the other guy that's there, he's been with me for five years.

The people that opened up, you know, Gus, who's over at lebola down at the Sibley building, he's been with me five years as well.

And I saw a lot of myself in him and I really trusted him to go and kind of start that restaurant.

And for me to be able to support people in these other roles and these other restaurants that we have and counter service places that we have is great.

Jason, who runs Frenchman street the day to day I was going to open up Frenchman street without him.

He walked in the door and was from.

Just back from New Orleans.

He's his partner at the time, and they just had a kid.

They moved up here for her family's from up here.

And he was kind of like, Janine's like, I just got this resume from this guy in New Orleans.

He was working at a place at Toupes, which is actually pretty cool.

So he worked for Isaac.

Fascinating guy.

Yeah, he worked for Isaac and Amanda for years.

And so did his partner, Courtney.

They ran north and south.

So Courtney works for us on our catering team.

And he came in and he's like, yeah, I worked with Isaac, too.

So I was just like, I didn't really have a job at the time for him.

I was like, well, I am opening this place downtown.

And I'm like, I'm kind of opening this New Orleans place and I kind of want to kind of smoke meaty place.

And I'm like, would you be interested in, like, I'll hire you here.

We'll work together for like a year, and then you can help me kind of get it on its feet.

And that was just like a serendipitous situation that was just like, you know, and, you know, we go down to New Orleans and, you know, we've met the Tupes a couple of times now.

They like our dog really well.

He goes with us everywhere.

But, you know, it was just.

It worked out really well.

But to give him the platform to kind of do what he wants to do and What Gus wants to do over at lebola.

You know, I helped write the initial menus, but at a certain point I just, I'm very happy that I've kind of got to the place in my career that I can still cook every day and I have that.

But I can be this support system for people that might not be able to express themselves in that way.

Yeah.

And it's kind of like having the hand on the back of the bicycle, like, I'm there for you, whatever you need.

But I kind of want you to creatively do what you want to do and is, you know, we talk about what, you know, the direction of the food is and what should be on the menu to appeal to the most guests.

But to be able to get to that place is cool.

Yeah, it's fulfilling in itself.

Well, and I think that's also a testament to.

That's culture top to bottom.

That's not just.

It's not the moniker of culture that is often used say, oh, yeah, we have such a positive culture that comes with.

When you mention like, oh, this person's been here for five years and then had an opportunity to do this thing, that's like, that's the testament to culture, not the words.

Right.

The fact that there are people there for five years that are still content to be there.

That is culture.

Because you don't, especially in this industry.

Five years is a long time, just is a lifetime for a lot of things.

We've definitely, you know, interviewed a lot of people.

They're like, yeah, usually, you know, you can see on their resume they're like someplace for like six months.

I'm like, I don't know if that's really going to work for us, you know, and we like to, you know, we like to promote with within.

And if somebody has a passion, whether it being a dish or they have a long term goal.

I know I don't want to speak for Janine, but I'm pretty sure she'd be on my.

She would agree with me that if we're able to do something to help them, we're going to do it.

I mean, we have people that might not necessarily be in the food community.

They might like.

We've had people that wanted to get into flower, I guess I don't really know designing of flowers and stuff.

We know some people and then we can get you an introduction.

Kind of like what we were talking about earlier and then is somebody, hey, I'm thinking about opening up a cool bar that doesn't.

I'm like, well, it's not something we don't really into, but we can help you with the process, and we'll support you and if there's anything we can do.

So that's been cool, too.

I mean, we know we've seen a lot of employees that we've had really, not just with us, but they've moved on, and we're still very friendly with them, and we still support each other.

One of our employees that used to serve for us, Jessica Klein, opened her own event venue called the High Line that is down the street from the Sibley building.

And then Zach and Athi Graham, who opened up the Arbor venues.

Zach worked for us for a while, and I consider them friends, but we've known these guys for a while, and it's kind of cool to see these guys just kind of, like, juggernaut into their own, like, little stratosphere.

So.

Yeah, no, it's really cool.

And that's kind of what I wanted to talk about is like, you know, that growth, you know, because I did just.

Sure.

Because it is such an interesting.

It's such an interesting space that I know when I first walked in there when it was under development, we were actually part of, like, what was high tech Rochester and, you know, the.

You know, the incubator upstairs.

So we were walking through that space.

Completely empty.

Yeah.

And we walked through it a lot.

Yeah.

And we saw it, and we're like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of opportunity here.

And then walking through it the first time, like, oh, okay, Where.

How is this going to progress?

How is this going to go?

And I think part of what has, you know, what's turning it into.

Where I think it's going to end up is the influence from you guys.

And I love that.

My buddy Yunzhin's in there doing Seasons Noodle now.

Like, what a genuine guy.

I love him so much.

He seems very.

I've met him a bunch of times.

We have, like, these little staff meetings once a month with the different operators.

Seems like just the sweetest guy in the world.

So.

So, yeah, we're excited to have him on the team.

It's great.

And that's what it should be.

It's.

We're trying to.

All the different operators are really trying to come together to lift up the space.

But, yeah, when you probably walk through it, I know that space in itself, the Mercantile, the Sibley building, when it Was renovated.

And I think when they started those, you know, this place that was lobola before was a place called, I think, Rufus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then they.

Yeah, I think they.

It was just bad timing.

I think they.

The pandemic just happened and they were trying to, like, you know, you know, get this thing off the ground.

And I think, you know, they had just a couple of false starts just because of the timing of, you know, you know, it was the middle of the pandemic, so things didn't really work out the way they wanted to.

The building owners approached Jeanine and myself just because we'd been around for a while.

And, you know, I think we had a relatively good reputation in the community.

So, you know, and they wanted us to, you know, kind of, I guess, quarterback this, you know, this revival that they were kind of looking for down there.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's an interesting space.

You know, the first year that we were there, people would walk by and they would think it was a hotel.

And it's kind of like, you know, they were like, what is that?

I'm just like.

And, you know, there is still a little bit of a learning curve with that.

You know, we were really able in the last.

Lebola is going to be.

I can't believe to say this, four years, which is.

Yeah, I know.

It's incredible.

Right?

So.

And I couldn't be proud.

We really still have the.

We still have the opening team there.

Like, we haven't, like.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of the same people.

It's a.

What you said before, I think that really is a testament to not just Jeanine and myself, but I think to them.

And.

But, you know, seeing that from four years ago and seeing the growth that they've had has been fantastic.

And, you know, but we've really captured the downtown audience, at least from my view, of people that work downtown, which is great.

You know, we're still trying to really capture the people that live downtown, not just people in the building, but there are people there that I think are still kind of figuring it out.

And that might be a larger conversation of the state of downtown, but we knew that this was going to be.

And when I decided to do this, and Janine, I think, would agree with me as well, I knew this was going to be a long term commitment.

This wasn't anything that was going to be like nine months.

We're cool.

This is going to be a long term thing for us.

Yeah.

And it's part of the changing of what that area Is too, is making the space dynamic.

And it's not to say that all the original participants were the wrong choice.

No, I think it was really a timing issue, really.

Like I said, I think it was tough.

I think it was really difficult for a lot of of them to one get the word out also during a pandemic.

Yeah, like, it was, it was really hard to get the word out about something like that.

Where you need, you need the density of people, you need the, the voice of people saying, oh, yeah, we're going to meet here before we go to this place that's also lively in the same area.

Right.

You know what I mean?

It's like that whole thing.

So what I did want to do is let's, let's talk about the individual places.

So La Boa is what I would call approachable.

Approachable Spanish.

Yeah, I would say like Spanish Mediterranean.

When we started out, my first menu was like, so Spanish.

And I, and I, and I loved.

It, to be honest.

I'm also working through that right now.

I've been consulting on a place opening in Victor.

Oh, okay.

So it's a brewery that's gonna have 150 seats, 10 barrel brew house.

And the owner lived in Spain for five years called DeWolf Brewing.

And you know, I was concepting the menu and really it's like gastropub with hard Spanish influence flavors.

Sure.

With some traditional tapas things.

Yeah.

But it's, it's a tough balance, especially since still there's so little awareness of Spanish food here in town.

Absolutely.

And you know, I've been saying, you know, if somebody asked me even 10 years ago, they're like, well, what?

You know, I think I had a little bit of a history of living in Italy and working there for a while.

So, like, would you think about opening up an Italian restaurant?

Like, not really, but I would be very interested in opening up a Spanish restaurant just because.

And I know there's a lot of.

Not a huge amount of awareness, but like, if you can be into Italian food, like, that is not a quantum leap in food styling in comparison, like olive oil, garlic, you know, parsley, you know, like these things are very, you know, ubiquitous between, like the, the cultures.

And I just never thought that was a huge sell.

But people are kind of like, they just don't know a whole lot about it.

Yeah.

It's still new here.

And that's okay, right?

It's absolutely.

And I think it takes a deft hand.

And that's like, when I was concepting, I've been Really focusing on that.

Like, how do we make it approachable while not dumbing it down.

Correct.

And it's kind of the constant battle of.

Yes.

Introducing people to that.

Because we've had little fits and starts.

Sure.

Of Spanish flavors in town, but there has.

I mean, for the first.

For the first year, people were like, so where's the guacamole?

I'm like, okay, I got to show you a globe.

I mean, like, you know, so that's not.

And that.

That definitely happened one time.

It was great.

We had, like.

We had.

We were doing, like, the Spanish style.

Like, they wanted a wedding, and.

And one of the individuals planning the wedding.

We were going on and on about, like, you know, different tapas and pinchos and, like, what are little sandwiches and having, like, an Iberico hand.

Like, you know, and we.

That.

That was really a lot of the original concept of Lebull.

In the beginning, you know, there was, like, tinned fish and.

Which they still do, but, like, you know, and there was Iberico, and it was like, you know, all this serrano ham and pinchos and all this tapas, and, like, it was.

It was great.

And it's evolved a little bit beyond that.

You know, there's still paellas and.

But it's a lot more seasonal and a little bit more Mediterranean.

And I feel like he just needed a little bit of.

He being Gus.

A little bit more of a wider berth to be able to do a couple of different things outside of just being like.

I mean, when I conceptualized it, it was Barcelonian, like, up the wazoo.

And it was.

And I even took.

You know, Le Bol is actually one of my favorite restaurants in Madrid, which has been open for, like, 300 years.

And I was like, you know, when I.

When I said it was like, well, what's the name of it?

I'm like, well, it's gonna be.

It's gonna be called Lobola.

And Janine did not like that.

I was just like.

I'm just like.

I'm just like.

I'm like, you gotta hear it out.

I, like, I.

You know, I just.

I love the place.

It's a place where, like, the Matadors used to go and eat after, you know, a bull fight.

And it's just.

It's.

It's exactly kind of.

I kind of dig it.

So.

But, yeah, I mean, in the beginning, that.

That's what it kind of was.

But, you know, as time evolves, you know, I gotta let you know I have to take my hand off that training, you know, off the training wheels of the bike there.

And I gotta let him kind of like grow and make it be what it is.

Yeah.

And that hybridization too.

Right.

I think that's where both letting the customers drive it a little bit.

Right.

And it's that, like I said, it's the constant battle of you never want it dumb.

Correct.

And dumb and approachable often merged together.

And I think that's the biggest challenge with passionate nerds like ourselves about food and drink is how do we do both?

How do we not, how do we not feel like we are, you know.

Like selling out or.

Yeah, yeah, it's selling out.

It's.

It's a weird confluence.

Right.

Like it's, it's the constant struggle of.

I have purity in many of my thoughts about food and drink.

But in the end you also need to be open.

Yeah.

You need to stay open.

Yep.

We have to pay the employees, we have to pay our vendors.

And I had to be cognizant of that.

You know, there's a.

There.

I can't agree more.

But you know, the problem I have is I have to live with myself at the end of the day.

And I. Yeah.

And I definitely got into this not to be.

And there's nothing wrong with this, but I'm, you know, if I'm not going to be your chicken French guy, like it's, and that's cool.

Like there's lots of cool like chicken French out there or whatever it is.

But you know, I have an idea of what I wanted to do and that's what keeps me interested and keeps me motivated.

I trust me in every other area of my life.

I can become very lazy.

I'm not lazy about this because I'm self propelled because I'm interested and if I'm not interested, it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna trickle to the guest eventually that I don't dig it.

So for sure.

And that's where I also like, I like that that person is also getting their, getting their excitement out of.

Yeah.

Maybe this is how we fuse it.

Maybe this is.

You do that with respect, with intention.

Because that's, that's the big thing is it has to be on purpose.

It has to be.

If it's not coming from within you, at least for me, it just doesn't, it doesn't work.

It just, you know, you know, there's.

This is a hard business, you know, and I, and I could tell you all about, you know, the woes of the restaurant life.

And, you know, you know, increasing food costs and payroll tax and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Oh, God.

You know, and like we said this earlier, it's like, you know, we don't want to lose money.

It's like, you know, making money is not the easiest thing to do in this whole thing, but if you're just kind of doing it to do it and just.

And also kind of sold your soul to.

I'm just like, the Verizon store is hiring, I'm sure.

So, I mean, I can go work for a large supermarket chain that lives in town.

I mean, I guess I could do that too and have a lot more stability and time off.

But I sacrificed this time and effort and kind of beat myself up about it because at the end of the day, I love it.

I mean, and I really believe that.

I mean, if you're just kind of doing it for the money or notoriety, for me at least my interest in energy is going to be quite finite if I genuinely are enjoying it and I am interested and I love it.

Love's infamous.

I'm infinite with.

With love.

I have so much energy then.

So.

Well, and I think that's the other thing too, is like when, when you make a choice to not just do the one thing, right, it has to be.

It has to be a thought.

It has to be.

Not just a thought, has to be a complete thought.

Because otherwise you're like, then you're.

You're kind of in the wash, right?

You're like, oh, yeah, I'll figure it out on the fly.

Doesn't work when you already have a home base.

You already have, you know, the new outpost.

They're adding on Frenchmen, right?

And making that choice and then adding a venue on top of that.

Like when, when you were thinking, you know, I know there's opportunities because of the vacancies, but when the opportunity came up, was that like, oh, yes, I want.

I know what I wanted to do.

It seems like that was the answer.

Oh, I. Yeah.

I went home after this.

The conversation with the.

The building owners.

I wrote the menu for all three of them and I also knew I needed.

I outgrew.

We do a lot of off site catering and we do a lot of catering.

And I just knew that the infrastructure of the Sibley building was going to offer me a lot more square footage to do that, so.

Which is huge, by the way, for anybody that doesn't, like, if you're thinking about like one, like, the kitchen of Vino is not a huge kitchen.

No, it is like A mid size at best kitchen.

Yeah.

15 tables in a private dining room downstairs.

It was until we went downtown.

It was, we were, you know, I was running it.

Like my, my, my family runs, is in the manufacturing business and they would used to have like an A, B and C shift.

Yeah, like going 24 hours.

I'm like, I had to run it like that.

I would have people come in at 6 in the morning and leave at 11, and then people come in at 11 and then work.

And then I would have another shift while we're in service, do more prep while we're downstairs in our prep area.

I was like wild.

I'm like, I can't, I can't.

There was just no space for refrigeration.

So, you know, and obviously, you know, we love the restaurants.

We, I love Aveeno, obviously.

But you know, what we were also trying to do is create some stability monetarily.

You know, obviously at Avino we're very, very busy through, you know, the fall, through the spring.

But a lot of our customer base is like 30s, 40s and 50s and a lot of them go out of town, you know, are on vacation, you know, especially in Brighton.

So we kind of got into the event game which kind of, you know, weddings are running through the summertime and stuff like that.

Just to kind of keep the cash flow going.

So it raises the floor.

And I think it's one of those things that is wildly, wildly misunderstood.

Yeah, like when people think about what are the economics of these things, like events are the thing that raises the floor, that allows you to keep the doors open.

Because otherwise a lot of places, people don't understand.

A lot of places would not be open without events.

Oh my God.

Especially the bigger events.

If you're just waiting for the people, especially, you know, hoping, you know, we're lucky enough, we've been established, we've been around for a while at Avino, so, you know, very reservation based and we're very fortunate to have a great customer base.

But just hoping in banking on the guarantee of that revenue coming in is a dangerous thing.

And what you'll find is you have kind of like this, I always call it the revenue kind of roller coaster that you're playing.

So by introducing events which are for most, for the most part very planned, you know exactly what every individual is going to be getting there is, you know, when you're going into a restaurant, you.

It's chaos.

You don't know what an individual is going to order on it.

They could be ordering, they could be splitting A burger four ways.

They could get seven courses, you don't know.

So, you know, trying to, you know, streamline that revenue stream into something that's a little bit more flat and consistent by introducing events was something that was very interesting to me.

And my background, going downtown and having that infrastructure of that was very appealing to me.

And then, you know, the food part, once again, I was talking about Avino, how it's like, you know, I've monetized my passion.

I love Spanish food.

We spent a lot of time in Barcelona and Madrid, and then, you know, I spent a lot of time in New Orleans, too.

Janine and myself got married in New Orleans.

Yeah.

So I kind of, you know, I always kind of was like, I would love to do kind of like a New Orleans kind of thing.

So once again, monetizing my, you know, my.

My.

My own self interests.

But.

But I think that's a good thing in the fact that I'm interested in it and I'm passionate, and I want these things to succeed.

And like I said, if it.

If it was just to do it, just to do it, and, like, I was kind of half in it, like, my interest would be very finite with that, so.

Well, and I think it also, like having that amount of diverse offerings also diversifies your event offerings.

Exactly.

In a way that the capabilities, not just the capabilities, but the practiced capabilities of the staff to produce all these different genres of food on a regular basis, that means that your level is going to be higher.

Yeah, we're.

We're very lucky with that.

You know, Aveeno has been kind of like, running, you know, is a contemporary American restaurant.

But if anybody's ever been there, you can see it is not an Italian restaurant.

It's not a French restaurant.

It's.

We're dealing with a lot of local farms.

But, you know, Janine and myself, we.

We travel a lot.

So, you know, and I just love all different types of food and, like, introducing that in and out of the menu.

So there's anything from Spanish to, like, you know, Vietnamese to North African to whatever.

But the.

The huge attribute that we have, especially with events, you know, we have a catering menu that.

And we have a catering head, Sean Wolf, who I think has been on the podcast as well.

Yeah, Sean's beast.

Sean's great.

And, you know, and, you know, he's an adult, and he's been with us for a while now.

You know, I'm just very fortunate to have this staff of.

Of veteran people that are still very passionate about cooking.

But, you know, they've also graduated beyond going out and drinking their faces off and waking up on a stove.

So I know that they're coming in the next day, and they're adults, and I love that.

But the attribute that we have for events is if somebody likes something at Aveeno, we can do that on this menu or any past menu.

If they like any of the stuff at Lobola that's also available to them, Frenchman street as well.

If they're, you know, if they want, you know, fried turkey necks, we got it.

Or, you know, beignets or, you know, smoked chicken salad.

But then we have a full catering menu.

So there is, you know, it's a very diverse field, culinarily, that we can offer a guest and do it, as you're saying, like, at a high level, I hope.

Yeah.

So what I'm kind of wondering, you know, as we're.

As we're wrapping up, I kind of want to talk about when you're.

When you're actually deciding to open the Duke as a venue, when you're thinking about how to.

You have a blank space.

How do you think about laying that out?

I kind of want to get into the weeds a little bit because there's a lot of decisions that were made to choose how to make that space a whole.

Right.

How do you.

I kind of want to walk through that because, like, you have the opportunity to take that space, turn it into an active event space, obviously building the infrastructure, you know, around that for the bigger stuff, either on site or off site.

But there's a ton of decisions that go into, what is this venue going to feel like?

You know, the.

When we got into the space, it's unlike the other event spaces around the area, which are absolutely beautiful.

Like, you know, Arbor Midtown, gorgeous space.

Arbor Loft, gorgeous space.

The High Line, gorgeous space.

You know, when I looked at the Duke space, or just the space, it was.

It has some pillars.

It looks onto the DNC building.

Yeah.

And the way that the Sibley Building was constructed, there are these huge metal pipes going next to that window that looks onto the DNC building.

And there was just no way to logistically get it out.

So then the first thing we thought was, like, well, we'll just.

We'll make it raised, and we'll make it a stage.

We're like, okay, so this will be an event venue, and then we could also make it a jazz fest venue.

And Mark Iacona we've been working with for the last few years, and the Duke being a.

Having two events a night during Jazz Fest has been awesome and it's been great just being a part of Jazz Fest, which we've really amped up in the last couple years.

But I knew it was never going to be, nor did I want it to be kind of like this white kind of chrysalis of elegance.

I just knew it was going to be a little bit more metropolitan, and I was cool with that.

You didn't want it austere because I know in a lot of ways that is what a lot of current design has been, and I think it's finally springing back.

I kind of wanted it a little gritty in the fact that I just knew I couldn't.

And it's not a competition.

I just like, I could never make this look like what those places are going to look like.

And by the way, they all, you know, there's a lot of them around there and a lot of them are similar looking.

I'm just kind of like, well, I kind of want to be different.

So I kind of went like, you know, the CBGB's route.

I was like, you know what I would.

Would be cool.

And that's why it's called the Duke, too.

I mean, we needed something that was.

We were tossing around names and everybody's like, you know, they wanted it.

Something Rochester.

I was like, well, the.

One of the things that Rochesterians have really latched onto is the arrest of David Bowie in the early 80s.

So I was like, well, I kind of want that early 80s New York kind of vibe here.

And Bowie was called the White Duke.

So I was like, we'll just call it the Duke.

Let's just do that.

And then you get into the bathrooms and they're black.

And our friend Stacy K. Helped us kind of design that.

But there's pictures of like Run DMC and like Bowie and Biggie.

You know, there's kind of like a music vibe to it, but, you know, it's definitely not things that you would find at a different, you know, you know, event space.

But we kind of wanted it that way.

We wanted it kind of like a little bit more relaxed feel to it and kind of had a little bit more of that, like, New York kind of vibe to it.

Yeah, it's that it, like, it's a place that, you know, lives in the city.

Right?

It's not.

I want.

I think that there wasn't a place kind of like that.

I kind of.

And I kind of liked that.

I was like, it's cool.

We've done a bunch of music events and in the space.

And, you know, it can fit like three to five.

You know, the fire marshal says 500.

I don't know about that.

350 people I'm happy with.

But, you know, it's got a cool bar that actually my buddy Paul built.

And you know, I.

Because it's a fascinating layout too, of a bar too.

Yeah, it's awesome.

And then we have like these pictures in the background.

Know, it worked out great, but I, I'm just, you know, having that as a.

The infrastructure for off site catering too, and for lebola and Frenchman street as a prep area, but also springboarding that to having more people in the space for the Duke and introducing them.

You know, a lot of people that walk in there are still getting used to the Sibley building, the Mercantile and too.

So I'm just like, when they come in for an event, they're almost kind of like what is going on in here?

You know, so.

Which is kind of awesome too.

So I think that's the reaction you want, right, when.

When you have the opportunity to bring them in either to, you know, to a counter service at Frenchman, to, you know, to a nice bar or seating area in the, you know, in the lobby, essentially.

Lobby kind of area of the, of the Merc for Lobola.

And you can have that experience that is easy and quick, but still feels like you're being served.

Correct.

And then you have an event space all in this same area.

Like, you really have a lot of opportunities to introduce people to what.

What new downtown could be.

Can be.

Yeah, and I think that's.

That's kind of the, that's kind of what I want to leave on is that's like, that's the thing.

Right.

If anything else, like, if we all take a step back, having things that people want to go do downtown that are approachable, that's not exclusive for anybody.

Like you can go in and get a good.

Get a good meal for a reasonable price.

Sure, right.

This is not.

You don't have to go to the heights of high dining to get high quality stuff and enjoy what, you know, what you and the team do.

Yeah, I mean, I, I completely agree.

I mean, you know, we're very fortunate in that fact too.

But, you know, introducing people that are on the go, that can go eat there and, you know, you can go to Lebol and have, you know, a three course meal and drinks and all that stuff if you're, you know, Jason, over at Frenchman street, we're also open for breakfast.

So, you know, we're trying to kind of hit that market of kind of like, you know, we're doing breakfast at Frenchman.

Both places are open at lunch, and then Le Bull is kind of open at night.

Yeah.

Just to kind of serve that community.

Because, you know, people love breakfast y kind of things in the morning, and they need to, you know, they need to eat something.

And who's to complain?

Nobody's going to complain about, you know, smoked brisket and eggs and such.

I mean, who's not?

Nobody's going to do that.

So, you know, introducing those people to that is fantastic.

And then, you know, you're absolutely right.

You know, we've done many events where people kind of like, do like a cocktail hour in the lobola Frenchman space, and then they walk into the Duke's space and then they're having more of a formal dinner.

So you can kind of have like that, you know, kind of like, cool, funky vibe that we have in the mercantile with like, you know, the.

The wallpaper being kind of cool and kind of like this weird.

This not weird, but like a really cool kind of like downtown vibe.

And then you can kind of have a little bit more of a dark, kind of moody kind of thing going in the Duke space.

So, you know, we've been.

It's been great.

And, you know, we're fortunate.

Everything's been, you know, booking out for the rest of the year and, you know, hopefully we can keep on that trend, too.

So.

That's awesome.

I mean, seriously, congratulations.

Like, I'm always.

I'm always very heartened to see when people who I respect are doing things that are continuing to grow their message, continuing to grow the actual culture of doing good to their people, doing good to the industry.

It means a lot to me.

It's a.

It's a team effort, though.

I mean, there's no, you know, I couldn't do it without all these individuals who I've known for a long time.

And, you know, I, you know, genuinely love and, you know, respect them, but, you know, you know, hiring people and having people in your life that are genuinely good people and have the same vested interest, that takes about 80% of the, you know, the BS out of the situation.

You know, so if they.

If they're all on, you know, if they're all, you know, we always kind of say it's like, you know, on the boat or off the boat.

If you're on the boat, then you're on the boat.

But, like, if you're.

That's fine.

You can go do whatever you want.

But I Think you know, we've been very fortunate with the long term employment for with a lot of our staff that they are on the boat.

So.

Yeah, well if you want to get on the boat, make sure you go visit all of the different places under the Avino umbrella.

So that's Avino over in Brighton, Pittsford area.

Make sure to go visit Lobola and Frenchman street in the Mercantile on Main.

And if you need an event, you can book it at the Duke.

Make sure you do it ahead of time because it's going to take some time to get there, but you can make it happen.

Yes.

And we'll see you at Jazz Fest this year and yeah, we look forward to the future.

So it's great.

Sounds good.

Tim, thank you so much for coming over.

Oh, thanks for having me.

Also, for everybody listening, make sure you check out all the other shows on the list Lunch at our podcast network.

I would recommend you check out a couple of our newer shows.

Murphy's Rank the World, a bunch of episodes out with three siblings doing chaotic ranking of anything and everything.

Also want you to check out Common Thread, which is my friend Rory Van Grohl from Ugly Duck and his compatriot Greg Benoit from the irondequilt Public Library talking about how hardcore music has changed their lives as adults.

Damn, what a fascinating discussion.

So thank you so much for listening.

We'll be back next time with more on the Food About Town podcast.

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