Shownotes
In this episode of CarbonSessions, Olabanji, Kristina and Jenn dive deep with speaker, coach, advisor and writer Lorraine Smith.
Lorraine has spent over two decades navigating the world of corporate sustainability. From her early career in ESG reporting with Fortune 500 companies to stepping away from the mainstream narrative, Lorraine now champions a bold new paradigm: industrial healing.
Lorraine shares her personal journey of disillusionment with conventional sustainability frameworks and the moment she realized that mainstream ESG wasn’t just ineffective: it was part of the problem.
She introduces us to her concept of Matereality, a more grounded and holistic way of evaluating corporate impact that moves beyond surface-level metrics and buzzwords.
Together, we explore:
- The concept of industrial healing vs. mainstream sustainability
- What’s missing from traditional ESG narratives
- The dangers of sustainability jargon like “net-zero” and “circular”
- Her vision of Matereality and why it matters
- Mindset shifts for business leaders and individuals
- What she teaches in her Practice Change Program
- What a life-serving economy could look like by 2036
Lorraine invites us to rethink not just business strategy, but our relationship with the systems we live and work in. Whether you’re a sustainability professional, corporate leader, or curious changemaker, this conversation will leave you with more questions—and inspiration—than you came in with.
Learn more about Lorraine’s work at https://www.blorrainesmith.com/
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For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org
Want to join in the conversation?
Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.
Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Olabanji Stephen, Jenn Swanson, and Kristina Horning
Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria. He’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work.
From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer, and community Connector, helping people help themselves.
Kristina is currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US.
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Lilli Querker, Steve Heatherington, and Rob Slater.
Transcripts
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day with one in the world et ou
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now mais événement un bras à problème
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with your work for the first time
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the first time you les how would you
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même d'un test et ça test
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et un d ending sauf mainstream sustain ad.
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global canadienne ça work Toronto pour
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en companies stratégie mais empêcher qui
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un moment spécifiquement en October
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combination of sense of this is working.
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:Stop comme became de moment et from i
stop stopped accept New projects i had
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:seven i was by the way have one in Canada,
New York, New York i sixteen thinking
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a du now and i would ne be
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me aussi something about working.
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ça ainsi the system of industri and
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:the almost system of sustainability
et qui ainsi giving up and ce what i
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pour get and move forward change work
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:and i keep moving toward business
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listening to is i heard like three of your
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:work the first phase you working with.
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when freelance and then the last phase
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:when you you know this is working we
have to this one thing that i found be
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off take de ces change un so i curious
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:cause people pour like des sommes system
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made qui de ces gens change gears at
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:advers specific Times in your and i how
you do that or how you sort de do that.
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:But et s like you off to stop figure
way to do that's very hard pour so like
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:how did you find like what was driving
you to be able to make those changes
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:Speaker 6: thank you un prêché de question
de la un moment resté et toute ça not
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must be way i can fixs from moyenne
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:work with team go free une
chose et of Times of 20 myself
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:Elle même.
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the of stay was of going
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next but that's easier keeping
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:i think fact curious ça m.
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:Vu
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:peu whatever the prix profess existence
of not taking in of mainstream
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:médiation of have to be
mess headlines world.
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:Détruit stratégies projects for of
the world largest media companies
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:et you un very industry very
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:take in and so because of that
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:what que like normal
expectations et because has been
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:naïve.
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:Speaker 5: that faut dire Jennifer want go
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:Speaker 7: just many chance
coming à how du first place what
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:you.
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:Speaker 6: Il y a Jennifer the West
coast of Canada comes back tu de so
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:i was living in my town this is in
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:University University
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:a
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:the interesting
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:becoming a dent so first job is of course
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:euse in the world et was a great
experience professionnelle Fundraising
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:was bête world fund like money
it the fund et as it pour money.
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:Growing pour
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:we are even in to be
nature protect generating
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:experience
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:et communications and money
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:make sense even naïve the world worked
en be so strange you we taking big chaque
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:français un gaz Venise tu mais lestes the
that we are correct un we are correct?
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:Oui.
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:You know
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:approach i left wonder
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:staff jobs.
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:Et point before
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:au livre au sport institution bank
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:et une great was na i had so much
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:in interac i was faire i was this
is in such interesting ça pas.
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:Et aux années savings industry industry
company and i asked my basse day et le
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:meeting the cross fonction meeting long
story pour marketing the investment side.
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:The f suis cru and i
bridge between rose pas how
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:money savings and we graphic design
New website ça un quelque chose
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:walking the beach un holding sin
Reading booking wonder so much
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:des choses what the une vaste que
point in employees ça les yo like
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:des déjà
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:cinq.
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:À
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:sa so that was that was un big pany
dropping that even i love job love my
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:basse really my soca work what we were
actually doing was very dégré from a
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:existait dans at fans avant garde
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:un
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:sans.
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:I walk away and again this is like
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:just the
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:and i left i one en travaux
de cross Canada basse Espagne
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:un moins came back
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:à à un myself
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:fin Canada
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:you banking job et cela un un a un
du Québec y de man maybe chez you job
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:oui, un organisation canadien business
respons head quar was expanding.
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:To be working with more
the cross Canada opening
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:one staff
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:so very
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:the beginning of my
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:que pas en être.
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:First amazing wonder
working au big bank to
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:New bas au lunch
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:un que à ce when?
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:Oui, be closing up.
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:Oui.
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:Oui.
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:Donc we should finish we
shouldn't be endless to stop
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:un she left an you know it John
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:a funny
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:a assume we have and that
working toward funny in
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:a it stop one
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:that
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:wasn wasn't working un année de job
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:Speaker 7: un livre made
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:of so inside it sens it sens la
value de value estre and du to
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:line your value with what you.
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:In the world
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:Speaker 6: et i think
that's true shift mais
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:i i think
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:i think simple i think i want aussi
impact et i love à la a believe that
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:we were helping mais bien we were
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:tel
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:business business impact that
challenge myself Canada et the
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:time what impact aux a even i
wasn ici que 601 millier things a.
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:rela a think impact pas working of
the world human right ce tu de une
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:invest c'est and i can in faith.
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:C'est
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:doing de improve which would mine
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:they agency how they live their
lives like the bank so a over over
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:du in
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:c'est la que si impact happen.
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:Point en missing pas le what a work.
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:Oui, oui.
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:Hard working people very to the point
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:à sa
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:Teams
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:à sans actions when looking
for it very sy very simple
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:one is so actually de b
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:change a même that i have it's
better perte is again, super
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:simple people pour et écosystème a
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:Speaker 7: bien
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:Speaker 6: anything else.
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:Dans un
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:human right
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:votre pour de
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:d loi drive that is pour
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:un et va donc si date a not show it
que qui équipe looking for équipe
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:équipe looking for elle entier mais
faire pareil, pareil qui valid myself
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:fumer mais the ground impact happen
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:ça
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:because i wanna make chose c'est
i just wanna make sure so changé.
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:S'impose
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:actually
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:Speaker: thank qui il y a un co
so thing when people recognize
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:par de mois, to change en start.
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:Creating change à gas, mais original
speaking was it so compliqué and c'est
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:pour pas global warming that was the
Word used and possède ok that means, mais
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:ça be and the Winters will warm and bad
everything else will be the same have
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:season and bad in réalité it was the.
187
:D extreme it was et was was
de les notes what people pour
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:Speaker 6: un
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:Speaker: so that confus was inform and
so des des de parents pas de parents
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:one of the climate SYN for me explain de
parents it like wave so the warm place
191
:and that made sense to me so the mom
i saw that par i understand the mort
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:of the Environmental impact things so
i guess ça et you can talk this thanks
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:Speaker 6: il y a.
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:Et en maybe.
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:Pick up on
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:because i feel et point
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:have which is
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:what's studio what's what versus how
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:n i think one of the biggest
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:that we have we need is tu not for exemple
jeune is un de of life that's industries
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:ça n pas.
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:Business serving want accompagné une
organisation entity life to drive.
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:That
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:very fort today business
life serving things pas
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:it business
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:une fact most business que that
business sur life it becoming
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:man comme à poser ce concept
of course, that's pas sa à non
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:we you life
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:que tu que tu dis phrase
like of course ça donc
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:donc.
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:Brown many elle wouldn have the expertise
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:que of the University i would of that way.
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:Pas jeunes un so from choses pour that
jeune can help créé what droite de
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:de
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:coaching practice depuis we
aussi have to do everything this
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:en de
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:ce happen this is i.
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:Sur over is much en the system
tout much en the time management
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:phrase and so as star à chacun
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:livre absence, mais
221
:the way for the you system maybe
tempor so you can get back in the
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:game ska or there a this un tape
a the the désastre y march in the
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:street burn everything behind behind
me because this is a qui nothing in.
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:Ce que Angry et un dans
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:go through the world of industry
the world and comme work
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:parents i increase maybe because I'm
looking for maybe mais increasing no pour
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:pour taking which is un giving check,
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:un looking for my peace
of the change and ver
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:concrete.
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:Exemple one peace
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:i very phrase climate change.
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:À l' de phrase prime
changing, mais pas because.
233
:Donc on est it's just it ennemi
à de real time and so was my in
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:ensuring as much as i écrit am une
increasing a space so i a everything
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:insectes des haite
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:insect à ha everything
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:Investing is
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:keeping une tri standing.
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:Et urbain exemple
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:is in sa should be et you ver outside
the série inside the série en il reste
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:mais a
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:the sy wied pavement
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:est ce pa, il remove point pavement,
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:etc.
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:So, tant que climate change
nécessaire, because i think really
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:donne un ping because.
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:Because because sa is prochain
direction something à trois que
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:point window because we are stock in
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:like des
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:soit looking make want make is where
where activ actions financial flow d
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:recognizing of the man words un important
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:we know what on the ground.
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:With people pour un ecosystem
and ou we going to week end, qui
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:a to make pour un écos looking
more that evidence of that end
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:de contexte qui of that en
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:que
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:Speaker: bien y a il y a non, ce ça
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:insect à i was de with lighting and in
the CNA end just so small end n expansif
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:Speaker 6: end
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:Speaker: a.
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:Un it si your chef to people par from
corpor and community is more productif
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:that it makes more sense pour way dans ok,
elle have to go to work on this sidewalk,
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:elle to blacks over in p de street et
with tree and the street without it so
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:Speaker 6: oui,
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:Speaker: n and dans sens and i feel
sometimes what happens de government
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:c des governments want to du good for
people who have problème walking a.
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:Sidewalk et que ça perfect and so
take over and destroy everything and
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:then des find out for ordre battu to
work on un even pavement because they
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:instead of feeling dame a per scène
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:wh so elle craint of et a quand même scène
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:Speaker 6: un pris Christ il remind mais
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:Speaker: plus de cas
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:Speaker 6: just make ça sens oui.
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:Even quand même sometimes.
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:I want bring this back to
we step away from mainstream
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:sustainability because oui aussi.
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:Today a world winning is bench pasting
exemple of air Quote crime a agriculture
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:which is devastating insect le
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:you
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:une man quand tu soy is qui demande
oui, so we are we are in SYN i
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:have fall the money in sa leading
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:the ça
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:sa the world bank,
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:sa you can tu.
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:With the name in do et un New could
in theory un drive driveway au look
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:terre discoureuse which is weird one
of my str in actual so i can look at
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:the of the companies in the holdings
of the leading Environmental funds des
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:saving des where
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:and you for tu the ground and it
is being world leadership that
290
:is devasta in population et.
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:And so this is the connect
highlight because it un
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:to par in le what's the ou par
was corde to des t ne nature.
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:Il a de green et green fi au name you.
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:Il chaque marque pour a green light the
de green and you find cette population
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:so we have this problème that we get
sans un that what i want to un power
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:white ask did, vieux c en cours.
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:What change ou
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:did for ou
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:enthousias comme, mais
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:Speaker: un it powering we have power.
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:Ok Mike GA is networking i have problème
i am i have problème i can sta pas de so
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:it coming from it coming from un exact
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:ça feels thank you
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:Speaker 5: is in of faux
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:un p
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:said and
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:from this and i think very big take the
big is that the metrics and the standards.
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:We hold government this institutions to
some van because in the Times to fulfill
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:this matrix and to my the standards
des a le business the business de so
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:of business ou make money like want
make money faster des de problème et
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:we incentive to make money most of them
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:i wouldn say save in some way
the business wants to continue
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:to be going concern and so.
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:Basical d what can to make sure continue
exist dans des continu to make money on
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:des organisations the promesse making
for the est ce good that very qui
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:think check the net nature sa qui about
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:of what you when you see
sustainability not sustainable make
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:money which is important we can
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:who who
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:d'une from how is this working back
i thinking now because un and people
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:pour et une position of authority in c.
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:Leadership that.
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:Mais want change or now have to
take step in the right direction
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:what should they due you par exemple, un
of company have you de end plus for have
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:like what this house be
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:do de ou the company as well like a.
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:What the Boden you have the will have
to make decision on most of the things
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:and the impact that they have not juste
metric faire what guidance would you sais,
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:Speaker 6: il a that des a i love that
question because highlighting how are
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:human being coup company sans essay.
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:Because a used de think the
company change elle la question
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:avec what what do i think this
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:and that because i believe
that the company was so.
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:Donc mémoire companies.
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:Donc change it depuis pour tout change
and pi pour change only when they have
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:can des that là change un saut, c'est
a été versus what are aussi un aspect
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:increas ing for manière pour
cette show when and when and
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:why a p might tu mais chef
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:ancien stop asking what should
this company due un moins focus
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:on a given in what is your to do.
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:What can you change elle give think a
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:speaking to the CIO i would spend
time listening un what is the change
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:chez seeking in what échéance what's
not would like future un la date
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:play what qui qui what is this New
truth you would like be this is
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:un n de CIO thinking l comme
white industry region thinking
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:a few steps in between
will un moitié studio.
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:Because what you non.
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:It is never going to be everything now
and so this comes back to the the tu
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:back
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:va
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:the or chaque take take take the big bon à
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:comme nnc a c how fund les notes
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:is a don know how make soli
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:giving in so i whats
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:end.
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:Ou is un
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:qui
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:what's the what should we be aing
for and i target is knowing you
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:have made people pour and ecosys
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:by the way une semble
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:dit que exercise exercise
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:in ways
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:a et pas the Word
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:i would.
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:C'est off
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:Speaker 5: that amazing ha think just
as i would say quand même if you want
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:so fait off free and that is that.
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:Oui having the conversation
with organizations like the
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:United nations government
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:this organizations and the microscopes
or given the metrics to my and we suis le
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:down goes and mort à short medium terme
goes and maybe i d' know but it if the
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:standard the companies a been a you know
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:suis standard ce
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:propre the standards and figure
there has to be standard spot maybe
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:standard and this is is the
first même thank you et il
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:Speaker 6: y a juste.
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:Pas
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:la
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:i c in twenty fifteen think was
when the sustain cause des soul
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:i was the number Times
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:a à annonce lancé why a lancé i think exit
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:après à.
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:C ou cross i mieux the problème versus
solution simple very human 100 human
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:the world and business and so
development is golf human humaine
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:and make sure protect sur that human
drive et keep backing into the over
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:même c à walk away
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:affaire as the one is one
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:seventeen
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:non, non.
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:En the things un de go.
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:Target so think
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:one in à believe is target point
seven in education, so like
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:everyone l about sustain et we wi
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:g et oui, just focus en et un en oui
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:and we
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:colonial, parents world view we
machines et on va what il y a ce
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:qui passe bibi version mais graduat
ni ninety six in Canada non knowing
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:in de jeunesse chose course après.
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:Qui be à graduate the country Magna
comme l mais good friends un non
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:have a cl that chose en the backs of
generations of people pour que live and
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:ways of no ou in service so if point
seven we made normand genuine expert
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:then you couldn't be become un CIO
that enjoy the benefits of une synthèse
403
:be the same du you have a
toilette you have a bed ne
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:so oui.
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:And the you blas them because human
the is mix up pour de get like
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:me great great like me staff like
me as they sa more many people.
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:Il y a pas
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:tant i would say il opport engage shape
New New environment i think un end
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:in New système un.
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:Oui, oui, on have some capacity and have
agency oh my goodness oui, il y a ça.
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:Thanks.
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:Quand
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:Speaker 5: amazing
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:Speaker 6: thank you thank.
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:Speaker 7: Was in big morning
life in situation the world
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:le
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:à
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:you a coming to me
alors what's going on is
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:money
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:and and so something i in the tradit
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:is something
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:Speaker 6: il y a
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:the first what is end.
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:What's happening so sports with sur the
tradit wave which is is organization
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:inside baseball in corporate
sustainability sur wave yeux is autres
426
:court sustainability mais would be
tu can un assess company most et
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:mainstream consult just du chaque
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:en afin
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:so i work for.
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:And the would be pay give
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:penser
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:et mais pas besoin
433
:de et même des deux nothing ou just
de que je depuis penser you think
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:job à
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:ou on tu
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:will pay en we so after of the sa semaine
and or bing, un expert being asked maa
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:opinion en what studio un Washington.
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:Fort with the strategic tour
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:sa semaine that what ok
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:the problème, sa semaine is missing
441
:is the business the company
442
:et reality is that plein
de change at moment anyway
443
:given premier qui business
n pas de business graph.
444
:Non,
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:so i want the way ça
446
:elle a créé le tour winking
court conducting open source
447
:can use des product et
the methodology of how
448
:semaine how.
449
:Mais de mon open source, tu be
en soit way from that because i
450
:un nos companies in.
451
:Or the in une so match very empower
feedback from people ou in within company
452
:sign off so for you avant tu tu de
micro exception been white freeing ideas
453
:believe that because that approche
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:des do it
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:a délo
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:droit et de toute les fois.
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:De ça.
458
:So i stepp away from les chefs in jours
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:fun
460
:Speaker 7: think week
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:anybody sa de chance
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:Speaker: a happen peine thinking
talking it felt like it en
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:Thank you so much for today thank you
for en work des amazing work do pour
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think much of your work is in the way
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:you do it beautiful beautiful la me you
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resources et website
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:Speaker 4: you carbon, sa à carbon
everyday with everyone from in the
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:world with la carbon, sa so youtube
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:you are.
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:This is a great way c expérience
connect in take action et you want
559
:your go to carbon slash pas n sign
to be future this podcast is also of
560
:the carbon network for inform sign
the emails to join the movement York
561
:happy of the carbon go to de carbon
org subscribe as week change the world.
