Daniel and I first met in Hadar's Teacher's group a few years ago, and now we both live in Mexico. He actually went through her Accent Makeover course and decided to continue on the path!

Daniel has been teaching English for 13 years and emphasizes the importance of rhythm in language learning.

He discovered the significance of rhythm through courses on pronunciation and fluency, realizing that grammar knowledge alone doesn't guarantee fluency or confident speaking.

Daniel recommends recording yourself to improve rhythm and pronunciation, comparing it to looking in the mirror before going out to a party.

Daniel highlights the importance of stressing certain words and using correct intonation to enhance clarity and understanding in communication.

Daniel Advanced Rhythm

Daniel: Yeah, sure. Well, I actually been teaching English for 13 years,

BIanca: Did I make a mistake? Yes. Or did I just lowball you on purpose?

Hmm. .

Daniel: Yes. So it's been a while. Yeah. Yeah. And well, you know something, this is part of the things that even as a student, I didn't think that we could practice. Because, uh, this is something that I always thought that if we only knew grammar, everything was going to be good, and then we were going to be fluent and we were going to have a good rhythm.

But then I started to notice, because I consider myself a passionate learner of English. Mm-hmm. Hmm. . , I started noticing that even though you know a lot of grammar, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to have a lot of fluency , or that you are going to sound like you want to sound, right?

but this is so something that is normally not taught , you know. . But I think that it is because, well, obviously the most important step is going to be for us to be able to use grammar properly, to make sentences correctly, and so on. . And then this is something that we can learn in order, like to polish our English

And that is, um, something that I discovered along the

BIanca: years.

And was that as a student or when you were teaching? When did that come No, I was already a

There was something in there that I didn't have, and then I discovered a program on the internet. Um, a course. I took it and it changed the way I think of English right now.

BIanca: Changed, changed your life? Changed the, it changed everything. Sometimes you just need one.

Daniel: Do you, do you remember who, whose course that was? Do you wanna say or do you wanna just Yes. I need to say it.

BIanca: Okay. Okay. Tell us.

Daniel: Yeah. Hadar's.

BIanca: Hello, Hadar!

I didn't know you did that one. Oh, wait, this was, this was which course?

Daniel: It was Accent Makeover at that time.

BIanca: Accent makeover. Yeah. And then she's got a bunch of other courses too.

And did you, didn't you and I meet in her teacher's academy as well? Yes. That's where we first met.

That's right.

Daniel: I was also a member of the Teachers Academy. Mm-hmm. , uh, because when I took her course I was like, I really want to teach this because it's going to be so useful that it's going to help a lot of people.

BIanca: I'm in . Yes, yes. Definitely, definitely. That's, so you saw both sides of it then. did you feel like there was some connection or some difference?

What, what were those two perspectives like in having that, that kind of, that idea, that transformation, that information from the side of, as a student, And as a teacher, what, what was different or the same for you?

Daniel: No, they were definitely not the same. Mm. .

And I was like, ah, okay, now it, everything makes sense now. Hmm.

BIanca: Yeah. And, and it's funny because you were already teaching at that time, you just weren't teaching the same. Things. So you already had this mindset probably to deconstruct things and figure out like where the problem exactly was and like, like you said, the mechanics of it.

Yeah. Right. We all have the same mouth, but I'm sure there are a lot of sounds, there are many click languages, for example, where like, , I would have a hard time. Tonal languages are really difficult for me, and so I know that like we all have the same structure biologically, but it's, there's something missing.

Daniel: Yes, I have it, it is on Facebook. I just need to try to find a way to download it because I don't know how to do it.

Oh. But yeah, I have, I have a lot of videos in there, like my practice and stuff.

BIanca: And, and would you recommend people keep videos of themselves right when they're beginning? Uh, through middle through, through like their whole time. For you, you found that useful, but you were already a teacher. If you could give advice to other people who say, nah, I don't think I'm gonna record myself, what would you say to that?

do it .

Daniel: When you, when you go to a party. Yeah. Before going out of your house. Mm-hmm. , you go to the restroom and look at yourself in the mirror, right? Mm-hmm. . And it's like, okay, my hair is good, my clothes look good. Mm-hmm. and everything. So when you speak, you also need to see. . Mm-hmm. yourself on video.

Mm-hmm. . It's like, okay, don't look at me. Look at your own video. Mm. , and then it's like, are you really rounding your lips for the pronunciation of the R? And then they say it again and it's like, oh, no. Then I tell them like, you need to look like this. And I try to exaggerate my Yeah. gesticulation a little bit so that it is clearer for them.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And then when they repeat the same thing, but they are paying attention to how they look, they notice the, the difference. Something that happens is that, and this, this happens to me a lot. It's like, hey, Bianca, you need to round your lips. And you're like, but I'm rounding my lips. And it's like, no, you're not, but you will not be conscious of this until you see yourself.

Yes. Right? Yes,

BIanca: yes, yes. Or yeah, definit objective data. Yes. We don't believe it. And, and in fact, think of a time before cameras and pictures when somebody just was doing a portrait in charcoal, right? Outside of a picture of ourselves outside of a recording of ourselves. We don't actually know what we sound like.

I, I experienced the same thing and so I know what that's, I know what that's like on the other side for sure. Yeah. I'm pro, I'm pro video too. Not to say that it's easy. Super, super difficult, but so worthwhile I think. So you have all these old videos of yourself and you gave example of the, the voiced TH for example, that used to not exist and now it does.

So in Hadar's course, you were learning a lot of the, the mechanics, it sounds like, and maybe ways to put it together. And besides pronunciation, was there any kind of a bell that went off about rhythm specifically?

Daniel: Yes. I always remember that rhythm is a combination of the short versus sorry, how did she say?

First of all, we are going to be able to identify, like when we have a challenge, and to disguise it a little bit so that the other person doesn't, uh, realize like, ah, he made a pause in there because probably he finds it difficult to pronounce this. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. . . And then if you, if you stress something, um, then you're not going to sound monotone and you're also going to be giving like hints to the other, to the other person, like,

Okay. He, he emphasized this. It's because that part is important. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . He wants to be ironic. So for that reason, he emphasized this other thing, right? . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And the other thing that I consider that was also something completely new for me was reductions.

BIanca: Ah, bulb went off.

Daniel: Yes, because I remember, uh, like being a teenager and trying to sing songs, right?

BIanca: That, that's not it.

Daniel: I saw,

yeah. Mm-hmm. , and I remember I saw that and they didn't say that. They didn't say thee it's like the, the right? Or, or I saw with, yeah.

Yeah. And it was not with, it was like with, with, with. And now I imagine. with a, with a, with a Uhhuh. . Right? Uhhuh . And it's like, they didn't say with that, like, I was even like expecting that there was going to be like a pause between one word and the other. And it's like, for that reason, I don't understand.

No. Yes, yes.

BIanca: And you said when you were a teenager, so are we talking about cassette tapes? Are we talking about CD eras? When, what were you doing this on? Because nowadays, I mean we can, we can see it, but I know when I was a teenager, which I think I'm older than you, I was, um, playing a cassette tape.

I had some cassettes, but mm-hmm. , it was just like in the last part of the mm-hmm.

of that, of that, uh, stage. And then it was more like CDs and Uhhuh, WinAmp. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

I forgot about that. Then MP3s came along and, and, and I think we lost that, like tact, tactile sense. Right. I remember with, the, the cassette tapes, right? Everything was very physical and there was a weight to the buttons.

Right? And, and you could feel the machine going zzzZZZZzzzz and the, and we don't have that anymore, right? When you press fast forward or you move the little slider, it's like there's something missing, I think now to that kinesthetic reaction. You know what I mean? That maybe I'm just showing my age here.

Daniel: no, it's okay.

But yeah, and now it's actually simple.

BIanca: True. True. Easier, right?

BIanca: Yeah, exactly. You can do the, you can change the settings right On your podcasts, on your YouTube videos. And nowadays we have, we have all the subtitles, you know, I shouldn't say subtitles.

The captions. The captions at the bottom, so we can really match what we see with what we hear pretty instantly. Right? No more fumbling around with papers and your, your CD booklet or anything like that, you can just so easily see it. And I don't know if you do this, I, I, as even in my first language in English, I'm, I'm a big fan of using subtitles or captions mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yes. Mm-hmm. . And also even in my own language, like sometimes when I compare, for example, the captions on TikTok.

Mm-hmm. , because they are generated in automatic, oh. Even when I say something in Spanish sometimes it's like, what's going on? Why? Why is it a different word? .

BIanca: Oh yeah. I get that in English all the time. It's like, yeah. I know what I said is correct. I know it's pretty clear sometimes for me, you know, there's symbols or sounds, and I know they're not gonna get that, the, the auto captions, but, and it's, it's okay to begin with, but I go through every word and I make sure that everything is there because I know they're helpful to people.

Yeah. And, so to come back to rhythm, like if you're looking at captions on a movie or whatever, how can that, how can that help you with your rhythm if you're seeing words? And listening to them at the same time. You mentioned short and long and, and, and like maybe groups of words. How does that help you understand the rhythm of English?

yeah. Mm-hmm. . So it's like, okay, uh, there need to be pauses and before that pause, everything is just going to be like a string of ideas.

Mm-hmm. , like everything is going to be connected. Right. And then you make a pause, you read a little bit, and then you continue saying something like, until you pause. Right. Uhhuh, , Uhhuh, . That is something that I like about captions, because you can pay attention to those things. Mm-hmm. . And then the next step would be that we need to pay attention to the words that are emphasized.

Mm, mm-hmm. Now we're going to see that not every word is usually emphasized, right? Um, but if, for example, if you are giving a series of steps, and obviously you have verbs. So, you're going to start noticing that all of those verbs are going to be emphasized because I don't want you to get confused with my instructions, for example, right?

Not everything needs to be formal. There are, there can be some things that can be fun. Uh mm-hmm. a little bit, uh, funny. There are some other things that can be a little bit more serious. Mm-hmm. , there are some other, uh, things that can be as if you were angry or something. Because that is going to also help us gain more control of our voice when we are speaking another language. Because mm, I can tell you, and I include myself in that, like in Spanish, I know that I express myself one way, but in English it's completely different.

Yes. Like, it was like, they are not saying it the same way I have it here.

BIanca: their English isn't very good. These people.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, yeah. Sometimes we think that in order to be clear, we need to pronounce word by word. Ah-huh. . However, when we speak to other people, this can be very tedious.

BIanca: Yes, yes. For them too. You know, not just for you the speaker, but for the listener too. Yeah. For, for example, when I listen to things in Spanish, let's say I'm watching videos and like you mentioned earlier about the verbs. Let's say I'm watching, a, cooking video, right. It's, it's a lot more difficult, I find, for me to listen in Spanish.

Yeah, but you, this is something you, you would say, Hey, here it is in English. So how can that, how can, how can that help me and what can I notice there? What should I be looking for in

Daniel: In reductions? I think that a good exercise would be to take something, to take a text and see, okay, how, how would you pronounce this?

And probably make a short recording video, audio. Yeah. Whatever. I, as long as we can hear and listen to ourselves. Like, okay, how do I pronounce it? How does it sound in my head? How does it sound when somebody else says this? Uhhuh , uh, . Like two weeks ago we were just closing one of the courses and we had this exercise, which was a speech analysis.

BIanca: like, I'm gonna, there's a lot of variation in there.

Daniel: There so many variations. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And it's like, yeah, there are many reductions that we can apply. It's just that you need to be open, you need to hear them. You need to also be curious and be like, okay, why is it like this? Yes, because there is an explanation about everything. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Another, another comment that I received is like, we saw that there are rules and we thought that there were no rules, right?

Uhhuh, , and yeah, there are some rules. Uhhuh , like for example, if we have like a consonant cluster, what you do? Mm-hmm. , in order to be more fluent, what can we do? For example, we have this combination of letters, consonants, and so on. Right? . There are many things that we're not going to be able to learn in a normal grammar course, but I always say that, uh, pronunciation needs to be like a different subject.

Oh, totally. When

I've been there so I know, I know that they're just, it's just not an ability that they have, they just don't have that ability to, to add that to their already very heavy basket of things that they're doing. So I don't fault anybody, but boy, wouldn't it be, wouldn't things be very different if that were a priority for people?

Daniel: I don't know. I don't know if it should be better to learn. Mm-hmm. first, like for example, pronunciation and so on. Mm-hmm. , because I think that probably it would make journey longer, right? . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I know I'm not, I, I, for example, I don't blame teachers for not teaching this.

Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. . But I think also another thing is that we need to learn how to love English or whatever language we are learning, because Uhhuh , I was actually thinking about it, uh, today, and I don't know anybody. , who is a fluent speaker, and they say things like, I hate English, . Yes. You're not gonna do that.

Everybody who, who knows how to speak English well and who feels, uh, comfortable, like communicating and everything is somebody who is like, uh, I like English. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But when we say, no, I don't like English. English is just not for me. English is boring. English is difficult. Mm-hmm. , it's like those people don't learn.

Yeah.

BIanca: So you, you've had a, a love for English. You notice that other people who go far, it's because they love English. Most likely everyone else kind of drops off. And what would be your goal about that if you had one?

Mm-hmm. , and they were very passionate. So when I started to see that it was not as difficult, as difficult as I, as I thought. It's when I started enjoying this. . Um, I don't know if you know this, but eh, when I was in elementary school, I was in a school that was not bilingual. Okay. And then I was transferred to a different school and my classes were in English.

Mm-hmm. And it was so difficult for me because I thought that I. knew English. But then when I arrived to this school, like my classmates would be speaking in English, my teachers, and it was like I didn't even understand anything. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I was accepted in that school because my father was a teacher there.

to other different courses and it was like crazy. Right. That was a lot at one time for a child. Yeah. That was a lot. , but the thing that I liked is that my classes were not boring. Mm. Mm-hmm. .

Bianca (2): Mm-hmm. . Right. Do do you think it was because it was in en, some of them were in English. That's what made it interesting to you as a kid?

Like it was intriguing? Or is it, was it two things? One, it was, it was interesting and two it was in English, or was it the fact that it was in English that kind of made it interesting for you?

Daniel: Um, it was in English, yes. But the other thing is that my teachers were, because they were not like, uh, these kind of teachers that gave you a lot of, uh, games or anything like that.

Mm-hmm. and mm-hmm . Some people need to have strict teachers.

BIanca: they work better that way. Yeah. With

Daniel: parameters. Yeah. But because it's like, I, I know the way I work and I know the way that works for me. Right? Yeah. But in my case, that is something that I liked because I felt, uh, confident. I was like, okay, if I don't understand anything, I am totally free to say, can you help me with this?

Because I still don't understand and say like, okay, no, I still don't get it. Please try to find a different way to explain this to me. Mm-hmm. , and they were very patient. Mm-hmm. , that is something that is super important. Yeah.

BIanca: Okay. The games maybe don't matter as much, as long as you reach the person where they're at and you make them see that they can, that they can do it.

And the attitude maybe of the teacher.

BIanca: better.

Mm-hmm. each person. Yeah. Each person has maybe a responsibility to themselves to know what works for them. Right. Because no matter what the subject matter is, if you know how you learn best, you can pretty much learn anything. I

Daniel: think. . Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. . And I think that that is the reason why I started to love English.

Ah, because of the teachers. Because it was like enthusiasm of the teacher, because of my teachers. Because it was like everything was very like relaxed. Everything was, uh, interesting. And it was like, Hey, and did you know this? Mm-hmm. . And then like little by little I remember that they were giving me just like challenges and so on.

Mm-hmm. and it was interesting. Mm-hmm. Mm. And something else. Very supportive environment, it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that is what I want for my students. I want them to feel supported. Totally. Now, and, and, and also another thing that is important is to know like what benefits you're going to be getting from English when you feel comfortable speaking it.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. And if English was a roadblock for me, I would not be able to do it. And I would be just like, um, consuming more time mm-hmm. in order to train them. Because what I did is like, okay, this is something that I have talked many times before at work, so yeah. I will not be repeating this constantly.

So I recorded like short training videos. Nice, nice. And I was like, okay, uh, because of the time difference. It's day here. Yeah. And then for them it's night and so on. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It's like, okay, like I am going to be sleeping, but they are going to be watching the videos, and then next day we can just check questions and then see what they executed.

Mm-hmm. , right? , you're

Daniel: Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. , because probably I would be recording the video and it would be like, Nope. Again, Nope.

Again, no. People will not understand this. No this. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. , you can even make it more fluent. Yeah. Yeah. And I like my job as an engineer. I love my, my job as a teacher. Mm-hmm. . and without English, obviously, I would not be able to do any of these. Mm-hmm.

BIanca: because you're in engineering, you're, you're using your language for work, right?

Not just to communicate about work, but in the work itself. Isn't that right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're surrounded by the language. You love it. Obviously, you mentioned before some different kinds of benefits when you were talking about understanding the rhythm. You were saying that it helped you to express yourself a little bit better and make yourself more understood.

Can you think of any examples? .

Daniel: Yes. When we, when we give instructions, for example, sometimes we need to be very careful. Like, for example, first you are going to apply this change. Okay? and then, and once, once you apply it, you need to make sure that this is okay. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And then now you go to the next one.

Mm-hmm. . And then you apply the second change. You make sure everything is consistent. You make sure that this column is the same than this one. And then that the requirements are all set and now you can do the other. Mm-hmm. . So for example, notice how applying a different intonation helps the other people understand better, right?

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Because if I had said that, First you need to check this, and then you apply the next change. Mm-hmm. , and then you continue. Mm-hmm. . And when everything is consistent, the rest, it's going to be like monotone. Yeah. People are going to get lost.

I don't know what's important, so I probably just like turn off completely, you know, me hearing that.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. . and then to be like, Nope, I don't understand. Instructions are not clear.

BIanca: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , and maybe, maybe it's the exact same words, but when you change the rhythm and you focus more on the thought groups and you pick those key words and you stress specific words, then it becomes more clear.

Same words, but if you say it with better rhythm. Right. The, the point comes across much better and people understand.

Daniel: Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And even though you know the words, if you don't apply a correct intonation, sometimes people just don't understand.

she didn't understand, and then this guy repeated the same thing. and she didn't understand and she, I, I remember that this guy, uh, got angry and he was like, do you speak English ? That was so rude, . And I was like, yes, she speaks English, but Uhhuh , if you, and I was like, thinking as a teacher, it's like, if you only stressed things correctly, your message would be clear, because I found it difficult to understand him.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , but I was able to understand. Now imagine if this is somebody who doesn't speak the same language, then it is going to make this person feel lost or, mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. like

What is, what's missing here? Right. And because we're so used to that. Yeah. I think with students trying to find the mistake so we can help them, but if you're just some normal person, you are not gonna. , you're not gonna know where, where the dots don't connect, let's say. And so it's much more difficult for them.

But we're u we're used to that. But other people, other people, no. And you know the secret, you're like, okay, if you just stressed the key words and you just kind of put those a little bit longer and a little bit stronger, she would've gotten the message probably

Daniel: right? Yeah, exactly. , Uhhuh, . And then we can also take advantage of that because if, for example, we have a word that is difficult for us to pronounce, or a transition between one sound and another, if we stress correctly, we're even going to, we're even going to be helping the other people understand better.

BIanca: thing. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , I got enough of the words. I got enough to know what the main ideas are and. figure everything else out. Right? I know it's, I know we're talking about past or future because I know the context, right?

So if I, yeah, if I can get the main things, I'll be okay. And what are the main things? The stressed words, right? So it doesn't matter if you're making little mistakes everywhere else, if you're go, however, if you don't stress anything, Then you, you would really have to, I guess, work much harder at making everything perfect because it's already more difficult without the rhythm there.

Daniel: . And it doesn't matter if you speak fast or if you speak slowly.

BIanca: Yes.

The pace doesn't matter.

Daniel: If everything, if everything sounds exactly the same, it is so boring and we stop paying attention and people just, will not

BIanca: understand. Right. I had that teacher in school. WahwahWahWAHwahWAHwahWAH.

That's all I heard. Exactly. Yeah. That's all I heard. Yes.

Mm-hmm. , right. If we play a little bit, like there are some things that you can say a little bit faster. Mm-hmm. , there are some things that you can say a little bit more slowly mm-hmm. , but we need to play with our voice. Definitely.

BIanca: Yeah. There's, there's this thing about like modulation, right? So if you can, I don't know if you're thinking about popcorn, let's say about pace.

You're talking about pace. So when I'm making some popcorn, right At first it's like pop. , pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And then, and then, you know, you know, it started, you know when it's in the middle and you know when it ends. So I feel like, I feel like when we hear it's not just, it's not just a monotone popping, right?

Right? Wait, something, wait, there's pause. Why? Why are we done here? Oh, no, we're just moving on. And so, so I think that that's the main thing. Like you said, it doesn't matter how slow the pace is or how fast I'm speaking, but what matters is if the words are, are punchy, right? If, if the words pop like the popcorn.

Yeah. So if the words pop, then I can follow you. But if the words don't pump, then it's just like, you know how, you know how when you're in the rain and when it's like rainy season and it's just, imagine if you just had, were in a tent and you had like a tin roof or something like that, and it's just constant.

and when it's constant it's just noise. It's just white noise. Yeah. In the background. Yeah. But you pay attention to the popcorn cuz you don't want it to burn. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like that's kind of an, the analogy that I can come up with in terms of the, the pace versus the, the actual, how should we say the rhythm, right?

Daniel: Mm-hmm. . What else? And another thing, I don't know if this happens to you or if you have had students like this, but sometimes people think that fluent means fast.

BIanca: Oh God.

Oh yes. That's a myth, right? Tell me about the myth of fast versus fluent.

Daniel: It's like there are people who in Spanish who, who speak Spanish and they speak super slowly. Mm-hmm. and it doesn't mean that they are not fluent. Mm-hmm. , if that is their first language. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Right. So, I think that it also has to do with personality.

. Sometimes I feel that because it's like there are people who are more energetic than others, and there are people who, even in their first language, they speak like this, they are a little bit more relaxed and everything. Yeah, right. Just a,

And it's not at all. It's just that's how you speak. Mm-hmm. and that's it. As long as you're understood. And to me, one of the main things of understanding, like you said, it's not. Little mistakes here and there. It's the words, the main words that are popping. Do I have enough key words to pick up what you're putting down?

Are we, are we throwing the ball back and forth, or are you just throwing it and it's just going over a cliff, because nobody cares about the ball. You know, like conversations like a ball game, I think, or like a Frisbee game. Did you ever hear that joke about, um, the person who was visiting America for the first time or United States for the first time and um, I think it was a Brit a Brit was in the, in the US right.

And the players were, yeah, we're just playing Frisbee. And he's like, okay, but, but who's winning? Like, I don't understand. How do you win ? It's not that kind of game. So I feel like conversation and comprehension and connection, it's not a win game, right? It's, it's, we're just throwing the frisbee back and forth, and if, if you're, yeah, that's how, that's how I kind of see it.

Because I think the most important thing out of anything is that connection. And I feel like you had that connection with your teachers. You're now instilling that love of language and what's the point of language? connection. In, in your students now, and that must feel really good for you.

Daniel: Yeah, I like it.

Uhhuh. . I really enjoy it. Mm-hmm. , you know something, when I started teaching, it was just going to be for one summer.

Daniel: 13 years ago. 13 years ago. And that was supposed to be summer. It be one summer . It was only going to be for one summer. Uhhuh. . And I remember that. I even, uh, I even went, um, and saw the principal of the school and I was like, yeah, you know something, I need to go back to college, so I will need to quit and everything.

But thank you. And then I remember that I went back to my classroom and I was like, no, I think that I'm really going to miss it . So I went back to the principal and I was like, I changed my mind. , I'm sorry. And she was very friendly and she was actually like, yeah, you know that you can continue. We like the way you work.

And it was like, oh, that was my first job actually. Mm-hmm. .

And this, this changes things. Do you have, did you ever have a student come up to you and tell you that Yes. Uhhuh.

Daniel: Well, one of my teachers, she is actually taking one of the courses with me. No way. And yeah, and, and she's like, I didn't think that this would be possible to learn because many times it's just like we just need to replicate sounds.

But we are not told exactly the things that we need to do. So they just tell you it needs to sound like this. Try to imitate. No, it's not there. But for example, something that we see with you is like exactly the things that you need to do with your, with your mouth and so on. Mm. She fell in love with teaching, uh, pronunciation, and now she pays a lot of attention to those things.

and it was like, wow, now you live in a different place. And then the other day I remember that I saw a video and it was like, wow, . Like, now you're speaking and I see that you feel confident and I remember how you were before it. And I'm not saying that all of that advance was cause of me, but I know that

I was like a contribution. Yeah, because I know that this guy, he was like one of those people who really fall in love with the language. So I know that he was train here there and learning a little bit from this teacher and learning a little bit from this other teacher. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And that is what makes it right?

BIanca: Yeah. Yeah. What a privilege to be a part of that. . Yes. It

Daniel: feels super beautiful. It's

BIanca: so nice when old students reach out to you and they say, remember me? And of course, of course I remember you. I have to admit, I'm terrible with names, terrible with names. But as soon as I see a picture of somebody, of course I remember you.

Daniel: tell us about that.

Yeah. I have this, yeah, sure. I have this course called Pronunciation, confidence and Fluency. Mm-hmm. . So it is a, it is a program that is divided into three levels. Now the three levels are independent from each other, so you can take course number one and then jump to course number three depending on, on the content that you want to review.

Mm-hmm. . and we open doors every month. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. So every month, if you sign up to the waiting list that I have on my profiles, if you go to TikTok, uh, at pronunciationandfluency.com or Instagram or Facebook, the same mm-hmm. at pronunciationandfluency.com, you're going to find the website and then you can just register.

And when we open doors, you will, uh, students receive a notification in their emails indicating that we have doors

Daniel: it's, everything

BIanca: is online. Everything's online now. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. You, I see how many TikTok videos you put out all the time. So you have so much to tell people, so many ways in which to help them. And I know that you think that rhythm is, is one of these fundamental things that it doesn't matter, kind of what you say, it matters how you say it. And rhythm is a, a huge part of that.

Daniel: And it doesn't matter if you make grammar mistakes at the end. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , A lot of people say, no, I'm not ready because I this, because of that. Like sometimes we are very good, very good at trying to find like, not excuses, but sometimes we are like, no, we think that we are not in like the correct moments, but as I heard this week, it's like the best day to start working on something was yesterday and the second.

BIanca: right. So, exactly.

It's like sometimes people just don't pay attention, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , it's like, , was that something? It's the connection. Yeah. But I understood the message. Yeah. And that is the thing that is the most important

BIanca: right? Uhhuh, , Uhhuh, . We often have a fear that people are gonna judge us for our mistakes.

Right? And, you know, my level in, in Spanish is not very high. So imagine if I did that though. Imagine if I let that stop me and I said, oh, I'm, I'm afraid of making mistakes. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't really get very far. That would be like a boxer saying that they, they don't wanna start boxing because they're afraid of getting punched in the face.

And it's kind of your job. It's your job to get punched in the face because you're gonna get better at it, and you're gonna avoid getting punched in the face and you're gonna do great. Right? So I feel like it's, you can't actually get any better without making mistakes. It's not possible. You learn, you learn very little by being successful all the time.

You learn more with the more mistakes that you make, in my opinion.

Yeah. It's just, yeah, that is a mistake. I think that probably next time I'm not, I'm not going to do it again. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , right? Or when you realize like, oh, I said this thing and it is not like this. It's like, come on, but you learn from it. Mm-hmm. , right?

BIanca: Mm-hmm. . And if you don't make that. , you're not gonna get the feedback you need.

If you're avoiding the mistake, it's not gonna get ever fixed, you know? So we need, yeah, we need to be comfortable enough to put ourselves out there and make mistakes. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is, it is the best way to move forward, I think. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

BIanca: And yeah. Yeah. Or you do the investigation and you say, aha, I knew it. And then, and then you just love that phrase. Or you love that thing cuz you took the time to really verify that and you're like, and then you own it, right? And you're like, I know, I know that this is good. I'm gonna say it again.

This is gonna be my new thing. Yeah. I'm gonna say it every day. Yes, exactly. I have a story about it. Oh, tell me, tell. ,

Daniel: I was in New York because I went, uh, to visit my stakeholders of the company. And we were driving, we were going to this restaurant and then I said, Kevin, but you need to take the return.

BIanca: And if you didn't know, you wouldn't guess. I'll just take the letter U and put it as the word turn. Right. You need to, yeah, re return U-turn. Why do we need two different things? I don't know. But they exist. And how are you meant to know? Yeah, it's, it's those, it's those things that get stuck in your, stuck in your brain and it makes it more sticky.

Right? Like we were saying with the, the cassette tapes, and I remember I'm very kinesthetic, so I remember just pressing the button and it just went CLICK really heavy and I just won't forget that, you know, ever. And so if you, like you said, if you know best how you like to learn, for example, I'm super kinesthetic.

I just, I gotta touch stuff, I gotta feel it. If it's tactile, it's mine. And other people are very auditory and other people are really, A lot of people are multimodal, which is why I love subtitles as well with your audio because it just speaks to different parts of you at the same time. Oof. .

Daniel: Yeah. It's amazing.

I remember that I said the word tunnel, but instead of saying tunnel mm-hmm. , like somebody escaped using a tunnel. Yeah. I said TU-nell Ah-huh . And then, uh, his name was Chris, and he is like, what do you mean TU-nell? And I was like, yeah, he escaped using a TU-nell . He was like, TU-nell? And I, yeah, like when you make a hole in the floor. Yeah.

And then you just go from one room, you go under the ground. Mm-hmm. , and then you go out in the next room. He was like, oh no, a tunnel. And I was like, what did I say? TU-nell. I was like, how is it tunnel? I was like, what's difference? Like, it's like, no. He said no, because I thought that when you were saying tunnel, you were saying something with that.

T-O-O. Oh, I

Daniel: No, he, he said, I thought that it was like something spelled T-O-O or something like that. Ah-huh. . And I was like, Uhhuh. No, it was T-U-double-N-E-L and he said, no, it's tunnel not TU-nell. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So I noticed how, uh, pronunciation is super important.

Mm-hmm. , a lot of people sometimes think that, uh, pronunciation is like luxury, that it's like, no. , it's like, it's just clarity. Mm-hmm. , that's it.

BIanca: Mm-hmm. , it's mm-hmm. .

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. It's for communication. If you want to sound like a na, because we always talk about it, right? Like, there are people who say, I want to be, I want sound like a native speaker.

And it's like, mm, that's, that's

BIanca: good. That's what you were told to say. I mean, not told to say, but it's, it's this, oh, I have this pet peeve against when people say, I don't need subtitles. I want to get to the point where I don't need subtitles. And it's a pet peeve of mine because, You think that because somebody else said that and you think that's what you should want too, right?

Well, I don't feel like you've really thought about your goals and what that might mean for you. Cause I think you have, I think you mean something else, but you don't quite know what it is yet. And you have some other needs or desires behind that. Yeah. And, but it sounds like this has happened to you too.

Daniel: Yeah, I remember that there was a period of time when I was like, no, I want to sound like a native. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And then it's like if you, if you work towards that direction, it's like super complicated. Mm-hmm. , it's better when you start feeling comfortable with your own accent. Mm-hmm. , when you start being like, okay, I'm not going to sound like a native speaker.

And it's like, , uh, from Mexico. Um, it's because I didn't understand, uh, no, not, they don't say I didn't understand . I didn't, I I didn't get your accent. Like where you were from. Ah, they didn't get, because it's, I don't know if you are from this place or from another, because it's a little bit like neutral.

Yeah. Yeah. Not exactly American. Mm-hmm. . But it's easy to understand. Yes. And it's like my own accent. So th this is something that I like.

BIanca: Yeah. Yeah. That's what I, that's when, yeah, when, when, when somebody, well, what I wanted to say is how you said it, how you framed it. I get a lot of people who do recognize that and they'll say, they'll say, oh, it's not that I don't need to sound like a native.

And maybe they don't know what that is in the beginning of the journey, but then they realize that that's actually the, the goal that they're going towards.

Daniel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And we start creating our own accent. When we start working on it, when we start to discover like, okay, this is difficult for me, this is easy for me.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. And then when we start also mixing it with our personality, right?

BIanca: Your

Daniel: experiences. Yeah. Your experiences, the way you express yourself even in your first language. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. . And it's, it's crazy. I like it. I really like it. And because I mean, there are people who say, I want to sound like a native, and in, in my case, it's like, right.

Oh. .

Mm-hmm. , you know, for example, for me, In Spanish. Would I like to, would I like to sound like a native? Sure. Do I think I'm gonna pass ever? No. Like I get, I get in any Uber here and they're first, well, first of all, they get my name wrong. Instead of Bianca, they always call me Blanca, and and then, so it's, it's all downhill from there, usually.

But then they ask me where I'm from, right? Because. already when I've corrected them on my name, they can already tell that I'm not from there probably, right? Mm-hmm. , but they might not know where I'm from. So for me, that's, that's okay. As long as you can't guess where I'm from originally. They can probably guess because, you know, US and Mexico we're neighbors.

But I, I, I much prefer that just to say like, Hmm, this person isn't from here, but I don't quite know where they're from. I'm cool with that. I'm happy with that. . Yeah. As

Daniel: long as, that's interesting because then you can start a conversation. Exactly.

Yes. So yeah. Any, any specific closing remarks that you wanted to add to this? Is there anything else you'd like to add about rhythm? About thought groups, about word stress, about reductions.

Is there anything else you'd like us to know?

Daniel: Yeah. If you want to work on your reduction, follow the steps that we just mentioned. Mm-hmm. number one, identify where you can make pauses, okay? Mm-hmm. , if there is a combination of consonants that you consider is difficult, okay? Uh, then you can go through them and see if, for example, there is a way you can break them, okay?

Mm-hmm. . In, in some other cases, you can also see if there's a way to connect them or to drop probably one consonant, right? But we need to know how to make pauses. Okay. And then the next step would be identify the most important words. Okay? Okay. Uh, I usually like to choose one word per thought group. Hmm.

then you go down, it is going to sound better. Yeah.

BIanca: Yeah. It's gonna sound more interesting, I think. And people are gonna remain interested when they do that. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. That's a, that's a great piece of advice. And what else? Yeah. And

Daniel: the last one would be identify what words can be reduced.

Hmm. Now, . This podcast is not about that topic, but investigate function words. And you're going to discover that there are some words that when you pronounce 'em in isolation, they sound one way. And when you pronounce 'em in context, they sound a different way. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. . And then there we are going to see that you can say on the table, like pronouncing word by word.

BIanca: Mm-hmm. . Cause we're reducing that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And in that ooh, sound, that schwa sound, you'll, you're gonna start seeing it everywhere. If you look at reduction, you're gonna say, oh my God, how did I not notice this before?

It's everywhere and we're reducing. So many more words that you might realize, but once that light goes off in your head, I, I think it's much easier to, to find those things and then to use them when, whenever you want. Right. However much or however little works for you. Yeah, exactly. Definitely. And, and, okay.

And what else, and what else would you like to say before we say goodbye?

Daniel: Um, practice a lot, .

BIanca: That was simple. Yeah.

Daniel: If we only do the things that we see in class, you're not going to go anywhere, or probably you will, but it is going to be a longer journey. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So you need to do, for that reason, I always say that we need to try to fall in love with the language because then we start paying attention.

Every time, and it's like we are going to be in constant practice even though we don't know that we are practicing.

Daniel: yeah, yeah. So we need to try to go the extra mile and

do more than what we just do in the classroom.

BIanca: Mm mm-hmm. . Yes. And we, yeah. People think that that's it. I go to my class once a week or whatever and, and that's enough, but it's definitely, it's, it's enough if that's what you want to be enough, but most, for most people, that's not gonna get the results that they're actually looking for.

Yeah.

Daniel: Then, yeah, exactly. We need to also do a little bit extra, but it doesn't mean that it needs to be, like one hour Mm mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. , like I always, if you practice only 10, 15 minutes mm-hmm. , that's okay. And then you can just continue doing the, the, the rest of the things that you need to do that day.

Mm-hmm. , right? But little by little, and then we see huge.

Yeah. Great. Yeah. Excellent advice, excellent advice. Daniel, I always love talking to you, , and you always have, you have great advice, you have great stories and I, and you know that I want to have you on the show again, so hopefully we'll talk to you very soon.

Daniel: Yeah. Excellent. Yeah, I think that one day we can talk about funny experiences while learning English or Spanish.

BIanca: That, that's a good idea. I'm gonna have to start actually writing down my stories and, and yeah. You, you do the same. So your job is to prepare by writing down the stories. And I have, I have some stories from French as well, and probably Arabic. Mm-hmm. . Because every time you make mistakes, it's. It's worth writing down

I think. So, yeah. Let's, let's write down our experiences and then we'll have another chance to talk about it another time.

BIanca: Exactly. We get through them and then we're stronger because of them and it just makes a good story. So, yeah, probably teachers have the best stories, I imagine. You know, cuz the people who I don't, never made it. They never got the stories cuz they gave up probably. Totally. Yeah. And this

Daniel: is something that we usually don't share in class because we are focused on the topic and so on, right?

Mm-hmm. . But for example, this thing of the U-turn probably is going to resonate with some people and it is going to be like, ah, yeah, it's not. Return, it's U-turn, . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. .

BIanca: So it's, yes, yes. It's good. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it helps me to remember in Spanish, cuz of course I'm thinking U-turn. Of course it's a U but it's, it's, it makes sense, though,

In Spanish too, the verb is to return, so you're gonna call it the noun. Yes. The return, it totally makes sense, right. Both of them make sense in their own way, but now it's gonna help me stick, stick it in my head too. Absolutely. As usual, it's always a joy to talk to you and hopefully we'll do it again soon.

BIanca: a good evening. You too. Take care. Bye bye.