This week Erin was flying solo on the radio, but Val and Hedge were there in spirit.

We have an interview with Christopher Blackwell, an incarcerated journalist in Washington discussing with Val and Hedge the challenges and dynamics of reporting from prison. The conversation covers a lot of ground: the limited technology available to even type and research stories, the dehumanization of incarcerated folks, how we can build community in prison and outside and more.

Then Erin fills us in on the latest news this week, including an update on union busting at Planned Parenthood, the new rent stabilization laws in Washington and the Strippers' Bill of Rights.

03:20 Interview with Christopher Blackwell Begins

31:59 The official cost of Union Busting at Planned Parenthood

38:46 Rent Stabilization Legislation

45:27 Strippers' Bill of Rights

Hey y'all, it's Erin.

2

This week I was unexpectedly all by

my lonesome, so I played an interview

3

between Erin Hedge, Valerie Oser and

Christopher Blackwell, an incarcerated

4

journalist who spoke with them on the

realities of reporting from incarceration.

5

And then I spent the last 20 minutes

talking, pretending that I was sitting

6

next to my best friend, filling them

in on what had happened this week.

7

So if you're not already tired

of my voice, you're about to be.

8

All right, this is Free Range, a

co-production of KYRS and Range Media.

9

And for the very first

time I'm flying solo.

10

So you're gonna have to give

me a little bit of grace here.

11

Um, but I'm excited to share a

couple of things with y'all today.

12

Um, earlier this week our reporter, Erin

Hedge and our editor Valerie Oser, sat

13

down for a conversation with Christopher

Blackwell, an incarcerated reporter.

14

Um, I'm gonna go ahead and play some

of the footage from that interview,

15

which I think is pretty interesting.

16

It's one of the things we've been

navigating as a news outlet, um, how to go

17

about reporting with incarcerated writers

who often have limitations in technology,

18

um, in the time they can spend.

19

I mean, hedge was telling me, I think,

on the radio show that in order to

20

communicate with incarcerated writers

that he's co-written stories with.

21

There is a really harsh character

limit on the, uh, system that

22

you can communicate through.

23

So he'll have to send drafts of stories

back and forth in like 500 word chunks.

24

It can sometimes be like an eight part

email, uh, just trying to share a draft

25

with edits, and then you get charged

for each of those messages you send.

26

So it can be kind of a, a complicated,

um, even expensive process just to

27

communicate with incarcerated writers.

28

But at range we really think it's

important to empower people to tell

29

their own stories and to work with

people who have firsthand knowledge

30

of some of the topics we're covering.

31

So I'm gonna go ahead and

get that recording queued up.

32

Uh, and you know, after that I think

I'm going to run through some of

33

the stuff that I've been covering.

34

I'm just gonna pretend.

35

You know, I've never done this by myself,

so I think I'll just pretend that I'm

36

talking to a good friend out there or a

roommate and trying to explain the news.

37

So we've got about 27 minutes of a

interview with an incarcerated writer.

38

A I didn't,

39

it's Val and Aaron here.

40

We're trying to get in touch

with Christopher Blackwell, who

41

is an incarcerated journalist.

42

So Chris writes about, like, you, you

had a question about like what kinds of

43

things he, he writes, he writes about

like a pretty wide range of issues.

44

Mm-hmm.

45

Um, including like environmental stuff

at prisons and like, um, yeah, he's,

46

he's mostly concerned with prison reform.

47

Mm-hmm.

48

And specifically like how to.

49

Essentially like reduce the prison

population, which is basically like

50

trying to let people out earlier

than they're supposed to be in for.

51

Yeah.

52

We're trying to interview about what it's

like to be an incarcerated journalist and

53

one of the things that we're experiencing

right now is he tried to call and I got

54

a message from him, but not an actual

call because the technology that they use

55

to, um, allow incarcerated journalists

to call civilians is real glitchy.

56

We are experiencing it

in live time people.

57

Yes we are.

58

This is fun.

59

Okay, so I'm gonna jump in here to let

you know that for about nine minutes

60

and 47 seconds, Val and Hedge are

jumping through all of these hoops with

61

this securest technology, trying to

get a hold of Christopher Blackwell.

62

Um, you know, as much as I wanna fill

dead air here, I don't think any of

63

us wanna listen to nine minutes and

45 seconds of technology issues.

64

Might be having you pulling

your hair out on your drive.

65

So we're gonna jump to the moment

they get Chris on the phone.

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Hi Chris.

67

Hi,

68

Chris.

69

You there?

70

Yep.

71

Uh, it would help if I merged.

72

I just, I I was talking

to the empty zoom room.

73

I forgot I didn't merge you in.

74

No, I, I almost hung up too.

75

Hey, thanks for bearing with us, Chris.

76

Valerie, how's everybody doing?

77

Well, how are you?

78

I am good.

79

I'm good.

80

I will only, I have till about 3 35.

81

Okay.

82

Okay.

83

Because actually my, my tablet

phone's messed up, so I'm in

84

the day room on the phone.

85

So also, you'll probably have

to forgive a little melody, but

86

good to be here with you, Eric.

87

Cool.

88

Good to meet you, Al.

89

Yeah.

90

Yeah.

91

And real quick, um, Chris,

is it okay that we record?

92

Oh, yeah.

93

You're good.

94

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

95

I figured, but, uh, just wanna make

sure we're in a two party consent state.

96

Okay.

97

So we've got, um, we've

got about 22 minutes left.

98

Mm-hmm.

99

If you gotta get off at 3 35,

thanks for letting us know.

100

Yeah.

101

Um, yeah, and you and I can catch

up about, uh, look to justice stuff

102

later on if, if we need to do that.

103

Um, but thanks so much for,

thanks so much for doing, agreeing

104

to do this interview with us.

105

We think it's, um, we think it's

important for people to know

106

it's like to be, you know, an

incarcerated journalist, activist.

107

Mm-hmm.

108

Yeah.

109

So you wanna go first, judge?

110

Yeah.

111

Yeah.

112

No.

113

Okay.

114

So, um, can you tell us, I

mean, like, you and I have been

115

chatting for a few months now.

116

Uh, I think, um, but just tell

us, can, can you just start real

117

basic, like, what got you into

journalism as an incarcerated person?

118

Well, that's, you know, you, you

want to see something different.

119

Mm-hmm.

120

Right?

121

You wanna have a voice, you want to

see the system operate different.

122

You wanna see it operate in a

way that it's not causing harm.

123

Mm-hmm.

124

And I've been in prison

for 22 years, right?

125

Mm-hmm.

126

But I've only been writing and

127

So I went through college, I learned

all this stuff, and then I was like,

128

how do I express this to people?

129

How do I show people what's going

on inside so we can start to change

130

some of this and actually build a

system that is releasing people that

131

are better off in society, right?

132

That are adding society.

133

And that was like the spark of like

wanting to share that and wanting to

134

share that through personal stories.

135

Like humanizing stories is something

that we always talk about, right, Aaron?

136

Like how do we tell something in a

way that humanizes the people we're

137

talking about so that we can change

the way we think about these things?

138

Mm-hmm.

139

And these structures that aren't

extremely harmful and obviously have been

140

harmful for hundreds of years and are

built off things like slavery, right?

141

Mm-hmm.

142

So how do we revamp that and

rethink these structures?

143

And I think that writing offered that.

144

Writing gave me the opportunity

to tell people's stories, who

145

couldn't tell it for themselves.

146

Mm-hmm.

147

And also to share and tell my story

so I could begin to let people kind

148

of see how these systems function

and how easy it is for someone to

149

get put on a trajectory where they

end up in prison or incarcerated for

150

most during the rest of their lives.

151

Hmm.

152

And when you say that you went to college

and everything, were you doing college

153

through, uh, like in while in prison?

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Or was this before?

155

Oh, yeah.

156

Yeah.

157

I definitely wasn't in

college before prison.

158

Yeah.

159

Okay.

160

I probably would've changed

the trajectory of my life.

161

Yeah.

162

But no, I, I was blessed to be at a

prison at the Monroe Correctional Complex.

163

Mm-hmm.

164

The Washington State Reformatory,

where we had University Beyond Bars,

165

which was a nonprofit organization that

literally was raising all the funds

166

before pay grants and they from private

donors and foundations and bringing

167

education in, bringing educators from

the University of Washington, Seattle

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University, evergreen University.

169

Wow.

170

And coming in and teaching

us credit based classes.

171

Huh.

172

You know, and, and for me that was

hard 'cause I had dropped outta school.

173

Mm-hmm.

174

You know, I dropped out in early ninth

grade, but I literally quit participating

175

in about fifth and sixth grade.

176

Mm-hmm.

177

So my level of math and reading

and writing was like crazy bad.

178

Yeah.

179

And I struggled so hard just to get

to do algebra and things like that.

180

The poor guys, they helped me

learn through this process.

181

And the teachers that volunteered their

time, like, you know, God saved them

182

because they really went through a lot

and, and specifically that's because like.

183

You grew up in a community that was

really beset by a lot of like, very

184

troubling social circumstances, and

can you talk a little bit about that?

185

Right.

186

So I grew up in Tacoma, Washington.

187

I grew up in the nineties, um,

obviously in the early two thousands.

188

And I grew up on the Hilltop

area in Tacoma, which, you know,

189

is, is in downtown area, Tacoma.

190

Everybody knows it is, you know,

probably one of the, you know, most

191

violent neighborhoods, especially

during that time in our state, you

192

know, um, it's, it's rough, right?

193

You grow up in a way where you're

basically living in survival mode.

194

Mm-hmm.

195

So it's not like, oh, I'm just

trying to get by and go to

196

school and do this in life.

197

It's like, no, how do I

freaking survive daily?

198

Like how do I get them the

poverty that we're living?

199

'cause my mom is a single parent,

you know, that ran from an abusive

200

relationship in Oregon with my dad,

you know, and moved up here, you

201

know, and we're trying to survive.

202

She's working two jobs,

so she's not really home.

203

I'm out in the streets, you know, my

only role models are drug dealers.

204

Right.

205

They're the only successful people I know.

206

Mm-hmm.

207

And you're just surrounded by violence.

208

Yeah.

209

You know, when you grow up in a

space like that, you know, there's

210

two things that you know for sure.

211

The system and the police are not

there to support you or help you.

212

They're there to manage you and often

take you away to be incarcerated at times.

213

Right.

214

Because you have practices of

things that are far different than

215

they would be in any other places.

216

I was actually introduced to

the Carceral system for having

217

a gram of weed at the age 12.

218

Oh wow.

219

From that day on, I never

got out of the system.

220

I was always on probation.

221

I was always in the juvenile

system, you know, and it just

222

perpetuated and snowballed and

snowballed until eventually, like

223

I cause extreme, serious harm.

224

Mm-hmm.

225

You know, it took someone's

life in a drug robbery.

226

Right.

227

Just something I need to be accountable.

228

And it's something that's like, you know,

this is at my hands, but also it's also in

229

our state's hands and our society's hands

that we allow children to be raised in

230

such environments where they're literally

trying to survive day in and day out.

231

Mm-hmm.

232

And at what point as a society, like do

we have to take responsibility for those

233

communities that are suffering in that way

and start to rebuilding and reshift them

234

communities to be in a much better place?

235

That's, that's the environment I was in.

236

Right.

237

Yeah.

238

So what kind of reporting do you do?

239

Like, do you do column based

reporting or do you work on like

240

more straight news type things?

241

I've read, I do it all.

242

Okay.

243

Because I've read some of

your work and I do it all.

244

It's not all, I made it a.

245

Right.

246

And I made it a point to do that.

247

Mm-hmm.

248

Right.

249

You know, when I started writing,

it was a personal essay and

250

then Covid happened to hit.

251

Mm-hmm.

252

And I was the first person

that was incarcerated and write

253

a piece about Covid inside.

254

Okay.

255

You know, and then I wrote

about 30 pieces about Covid.

256

Right.

257

What we were experiencing,

how things were going down.

258

I wanted to be documented, right?

259

Mm-hmm.

260

I wanted to make sure in history that

people had something to turn back to and

261

say, this is what's going on, this is what

happened, at least in Washington State.

262

But then I got to a point to where

I was like, man, I want to make

263

sure I'm not pigeonholed as someone

that's just writing about Covid.

264

Mm-hmm.

265

In prison because other journalists

don't have access to it.

266

Yeah.

267

So I started working with other

journalists that were investigative

268

journalists and learning how

to do some of that, right?

269

Like how to dive, be how

to do public disclosures.

270

Mm-hmm.

271

Um, you know, how to do interviews

better and stuff like that.

272

And I started working with them,

you know, sometimes I would

273

partner, they would teach me a lot

and, and mentor me in that space.

274

And then, you know, as, as time

progressed, like I learned how to

275

tell stories in very different ways.

276

Right.

277

Sometimes it's best to do it through

personal stories and other times it's

278

best to do it through an investigation

and show people that this is an actual

279

harm that's happening or something that

people are experiencing on the inside.

280

So how do you get, like, those ideas

for stories are, are they usually

281

issues you observe yourself or are

other inmates like telling you tips?

282

Like how do you navigate that

283

one?

284

I've never used the

word inmate or offender.

285

Oh, sorry.

286

Now I always try to educate

people on this and it's okay.

287

It's okay, right?

288

Like, this is something we've

done in mainstream media.

289

But we should never label someone.

290

When we label someone, we

literally make them objectified

291

and create them as an other.

292

Mm-hmm.

293

So I always try to veer away

from that and don't feel like

294

that's anything to do with you.

295

Mm-hmm.

296

Because you have been

literally brainwashed to talk

297

about people in that way.

298

Mm-hmm.

299

Because that's what our

media, our media does, right.

300

Yeah.

301

So, um, but yeah, so like,

I I, the stories just come.

302

Mm-hmm.

303

You know, it's your daily life.

304

It's something that you see.

305

It's, it's harm that happens.

306

Right.

307

It's when a, a person I see being taken

advantage of, you know, I recently

308

wrote a book Ending Isolation, the case

against Solitary Confinement with a law

309

professor friend of mine De Deci, and Dr.

310

Terry Cooper was the leading expert on

solitary reform and Quanetta Harris.

311

Mm-hmm.

312

And we literally did that because

I sat in the hole, you know, on

313

a false investigation where I've

seen this 19-year-old kid getting

314

abused and treating bad by staff.

315

Mm-hmm.

316

And I was like, this is crazy.

317

We need to show people what this is.

318

So I just took the opportunity

where I was forced to be in solitary

319

confinement and I took it like

a, a, a journalist report, right?

320

Mm-hmm.

321

Like I had been sent over

to Iraq or something.

322

Mm-hmm.

323

And I took that time to just document

every single thing I was seeing.

324

And that's where a lot of it comes from.

325

And definitely guys like hit me

up, I gave hit up all the time.

326

Mm-hmm.

327

Like, Hey, you should

write a story about this.

328

You should do this.

329

'cause often you have to

explain to people mm-hmm.

330

Like, well, is this happening?

331

Can we show this?

332

Can we prove this?

333

You know, all these journalistic things.

334

And they're just like, uh, no.

335

And I'm like, well, we're not gonna

be able to publish a story because

336

like, we have to have all that,

all the elements of it, right?

337

Mm-hmm.

338

But tell some of these stories or, you

know, we totally more humanize than ones.

339

And then of course, like, you

know, publishers will reach

340

out quite often and have ideas.

341

Mm-hmm.

342

You know, the New York Times has reached

out a couple of times with like great

343

ideas, a great friendship with an editor

there, Glen Fox, you know, incredible.

344

And she's always like, Hey, we should

tell some about this In the system left.

345

Do you have any ideas or do

you have an idea about like, if

346

you were thinking about regret,

like what would that look like?

347

Mm.

348

You know, so it's always, I, it's

just you're around us all the time.

349

It's just like taking the

time and effort to share that.

350

Yeah.

351

You, you just mentioned a little bit

about, you know, some of the, some

352

of the difficulties of, you know,

reporting while being imprisoned.

353

Um, yeah.

354

What, what, what are the, what are the

advant because, 'cause I think that

355

like, I, I've done some work with, uh,

your colleague Kevin Light Roth, and he

356

has access to places that I don't have

access to and then I have access to.

357

Things that he doesn't have access to.

358

Can you talk a little bit about what are

the advantages of being an incarcerated

359

journalist and what are the drawbacks

and what makes the job difficult?

360

What makes it worth it?

361

Right.

362

Well, I mean, what makes it worth

it is you get to share what the

363

world, what's going on, right?

364

Mm-hmm.

365

We get to set the records straight.

366

Often narratives are pulled from

one side, and I think that's one

367

of the most important things.

368

The second, and equally is important,

is that we're getting to humanize

369

individuals who are inside and reminding

people in society that we are all in

370

the same thing together, or just people

that have made very bad choices and be

371

accountable to those choices, right?

372

And be remorseful, but also we need to

be reminded that we are a part of society

373

and we need to rely on the people of that.

374

Um, the drawbacks is technology, man.

375

Mm-hmm.

376

Like, you know, like you're

strict about technology.

377

No internet, no nothing.

378

Mm-hmm.

379

Any of that stuff is wiped out.

380

Everything we do, even writing our

stories on the tablets, they do give us.

381

Imagine typing every story

you have on your iPhone.

382

That's how I write every

story I've ever written.

383

I, or you can write it and

then send it out to someone

384

else and name them, type it.

385

I, I noticed when, when Kevin Ke, Kevin

has published a couple of stories with

386

us and when he sends his stories, when

paragraphs are all numbered and is, is

387

that just because like it's easier to

like share the, the story that way through

388

those, those limitations of technology

that like, you know, we have Advan,

389

the advantage is like Google Docs out

here and we can edit it in real time.

390

But is it like, is that, is

that one of the reasons I think

391

that's like kind of illustrative?

392

Right, right, right.

393

That's like something we

came up with a long time ago.

394

It's smart.

395

I think it was me and actually Jessica

Schulberg, who's at the Huffington Post.

396

We were writing this article

about solitary confinement.

397

We were going back and forth and

we were like, this is a nightmare.

398

Yeah.

399

Like we need to find a way

'cause we can't cut and past.

400

Right?

401

Yeah.

402

I was like, we need to find

a way we can number these.

403

Or, or something.

404

So I can be like, Hey, in paragraph three,

I think we should work on this sentence.

405

Mm.

406

Yeah.

407

You know?

408

And then we just kind of

conceptualize that idea.

409

And it's something that, you know, I've

been thankful to be able to pass on

410

to guys who are doing the same work.

411

Right.

412

'cause it makes it doable.

413

And there is a beautiful thing about

the symbiotic relationship between a

414

reporter out there and a reporter in here.

415

Because like you said, we

both have different accesses.

416

Mm-hmm.

417

But we also learn off of each other

when we do this work together.

418

Think about all the things we've

learned about each other just over the

419

couple months we've worked together.

420

Right.

421

Aaron?

422

Yeah.

423

I think about how important that

is that we each teach each other

424

so much when we're doing this work.

425

And again, it always goes

back to this, and that's why I

426

always think about it, humanize.

427

Mm-hmm.

428

You humanize people, you look

at people different inside.

429

You learn about things

that you didn't know.

430

And I learn about things in

society that I didn't know.

431

Right.

432

Which allows me to have the empathy.

433

And not just be charged or feeling

some kind of way because of the

434

system and the oppression that

we experience in these systems.

435

You, you, you talk, you've

talked a lot, um, during this

436

conversation about humanizing people.

437

Mm-hmm.

438

And, you know, I, I think that like,

one of the things you really emphasize

439

when we're talking is that you, you

wanna bring people, you talk about

440

events that you organize where, you

know, there's, there's, there's judges

441

and people who have murdered people in

the same room and they're just getting

442

to know each other as human beings.

443

Um, which means like, you don't just

do journalism, you do a lot of like

444

community building and organizing.

445

And I'm kind of wondering, like,

this is something that I ask you

446

sometimes, um, like, do you ever sleep?

447

Yeah.

448

I think my wife thinks I need to

start doing more of that as well.

449

Yeah.

450

Um, man, it's,

451

I took a human life.

452

Hmm.

453

Every day I think about that.

454

Right.

455

Yeah, I know you do.

456

It's not a day that goes by and I'm not

gonna think about that individual that I

457

took from his family, from his community.

458

So to me, the only thing I can

do is give a life of service.

459

But we say that we owe a debt to society.

460

Is that debt for me to sit in prison

and play cards and lift weights, or

461

is it for me to actually give and,

and, and reinstate some kind of effort

462

back into my community and the people.

463

Right.

464

And that's what I see.

465

So, you know, the work becomes it.

466

Don't get me wrong, it's stressful.

467

Yeah.

468

But at the same time, the driving

forces, it's that, that life of service.

469

Right.

470

That's what I'm giving back

for the harm that I caused.

471

'cause that's all I can do.

472

Mm-hmm.

473

There's nothing else you

can do when you take a life.

474

Mm.

475

So for me, that's how I think about it.

476

You know?

477

And, and so it, it leads me to

being able to do all this work

478

and it's deeply passionate.

479

That I can help people become,

other people can become

480

leaders in this space, right?

481

That they can have platforms.

482

I'm not the anomaly.

483

I'm not the only person that can

get published in the New York Times

484

and you know, co-found and build

an organization like I was able to

485

do with, you know, my wife Chelsea.

486

Right?

487

Like other people can do that.

488

There's a hundred more look

to justice organizations

489

that can get built out there.

490

We just have to water those seeds.

491

So for me, I think

that's the effort, right?

492

That's the work that we're doing.

493

We're laying foundations for people

to really build and change our

494

society if that's what we want to see.

495

Mm-hmm.

496

Otherwise, shit, we're just warehousing

people like a can on a shelf.

497

Yeah.

498

And if that cans dented when we

put it on the shelf, would we be

499

surprised when we come to take it off

10 years later that it's still ded?

500

Of course.

501

It's didn't do anything to it.

502

So I find that comfort in that.

503

That's my comfort.

504

That's the driving force is

knowing what we're doing.

505

Again, humanizing the people

that are a part of it, society.

506

We're not casting people off who

are incarcerated to an island

507

that'll never be seen again.

508

Mm-hmm.

509

We're putting them in a facility

and returning them to the community.

510

How are we gonna return them?

511

How do we want them to return?

512

Mm-hmm.

513

That takes work.

514

And it's a lot of narrative change, right.

515

Because we've been brainwashed and fear

mongered for so long that a lot of people

516

will have us believe that just locking

someone up for a life for a long sentence

517

is gonna change and fix everything.

518

We've been doing it forever.

519

Mm-hmm.

520

We've been tough on crime for isn't

working, it's obviously not working,

521

so we gotta do something different.

522

I, I, I wanted to point out that,

um, you mentioned your wife Chelsea,

523

you, you're talking about Dr.

524

Chelsea Moore, who's a, she's a, I

think she's a community organizer

525

with the A CLU in California.

526

Is that correct?

527

I just wanted to point out who she was.

528

No, no, no, no.

529

She's the director.

530

She's the director of our

policy at the Washington ACL U.

531

The Washington ACL U.

532

Oh, sorry.

533

Thank you.

534

Thank you so much.

535

Um, back to, yeah.

536

She's a policy badass.

537

Yeah, she's, I've spoken to her before.

538

She's extremely intelligent.

539

I was super impressed

when I talked to her.

540

Yeah.

541

Um, so I had a quick question

also about, um, like sourcing.

542

Um, so like,

543

uh, how do you find

sources on while inside?

544

Like, are you able to interview

outside sources and then if your

545

sources are also incarcerated?

546

Um, and, and you've talked a lot

about humanizing, so like, do their

547

charges ever affect how you view

their reliability as a source?

548

Um, if they are incarcerated,

because that's something that

549

we face out here, uh, you know,

the public tends to discredit.

550

People who are incarcerated

in general, you know?

551

Right.

552

Mm-hmm.

553

Because that's what we've been,

you know, like, like I was saying,

554

that's what we've been taught to do.

555

Mm-hmm.

556

I don't ever do that.

557

Mm-hmm.

558

Mm-hmm.

559

If I deserve, not deserve,

I don't want to say deserve.

560

If I want to be given forgiveness for

this serious harm I caused, then why

561

would anybody else not be welcome to that?

562

Mm-hmm.

563

Or have that opportunity.

564

Right.

565

So for me, I don't, I don't

pay attention to that man.

566

You know, it's hard, like,

there's definitely things

567

that are hard to stomach.

568

Mm-hmm.

569

I mean, and that's just

being honest, right?

570

When you think about someone

that, you know, harmed a child

571

or something, that's not easy to,

it's not an easy pill to swallow.

572

But at the same time, the more

we ostracize them and demonize

573

them, the more they will continue

to do what they do because they

574

will never feel like they belong.

575

Mm-hmm.

576

So for me, I feel like we want

people to belong in society.

577

There's this thing that happened

when I was, when I was just under

578

18, I was in the juvenile facility.

579

Excuse me.

580

They had built this bootcamp,

it was called Camp Outlook.

581

They were gonna run juveniles through it.

582

If you did four months in

there, you could go home.

583

Um, you know, early on your sentence,

you couldn't have more than a year.

584

They came and asked me.

585

I was the first group to go in there.

586

I was like, yeah, I'll do that.

587

Hell yeah, I'll do that.

588

Look, go a little bootcamp and I

get to go home that much early.

589

Let's do it.

590

So I go there, I learn all this

stuff, you know, which ran by real

591

drill instructors from the Army,

the Marines, and stuff like this.

592

It was the first time I ever

had structure in my life.

593

I thrived there immediately,

leaving that place.

594

I went and tried to enroll in the

Army, greens, the Navy, and got

595

told no by every one of 'em for

nonviolent felonies I had as juvenile.

596

Oh.

597

Immediately I felt like I

didn't belong in society.

598

Mm.

599

And went right back to what I knew, went

right back to the block, went right back

600

to selling drugs, and went right back to

all the harm and the bad things that I

601

was causing other people in my community.

602

Because I didn't feel like I belonged.

603

So I think about that every time when

someone tries to ostracize or push

604

someone to the side, I'm like, that's

gonna make that person cause more harm.

605

Mm-hmm.

606

The only way for us to stop doing

that is to show them that they

607

have a spot in this society.

608

And I think that that's

the most important thing.

609

Right.

610

So people are gonna do that out there,

but it's on us, especially as journalists.

611

Mm-hmm.

612

How we perpetuate that and

how we tell those stories.

613

I've done stories where they're like,

Hey, we want to do the opening paragraph

614

with, you know, the life you took and,

and talk about that person and, and you

615

know what their family went through.

616

And I'm like, hold on a minute.

617

We're writing a story about a Raven that

I have a relationship with in prison.

618

We're not even talking

about the Carceral system.

619

Yeah.

620

Why would we fire this

piece off with that?

621

And I'm like, do you do this with

every journalist you work with?

622

Do you find the worst thing

they ever did in their life?

623

And you start their every

story off with that.

624

And not to mention.

625

Do you even think that we're probably

causing this individual's family harm

626

by having to read this every time

at the front of every story I write?

627

Mm-hmm.

628

Why would we wanna do that?

629

What benefit is it?

630

And then I think, and I remind

myself, it's trauma porn, right?

631

Mm-hmm.

632

It's the thing that we've, we, we've

used in our media and society to get

633

people to engage and they just want

to indulge more and more and more.

634

Mm-hmm.

635

So we gotta do that, right?

636

That's our job to stop that.

637

And that's why don't use

labeling language, right?

638

Mm-hmm.

639

These people, first language,

because we're talking about people.

640

So we want to humanize those people and

talk about 'em as what they are people.

641

One, sorry one day.

642

Christopher, when we have more time,

I would love to talk to you more

643

about like crime coverage in general.

644

I used to be a crime and

breaking news reporter in

645

Southern California, so mm-hmm.

646

Um, I have lots of

feelings about trauma porn.

647

Interesting time.

648

Yeah.

649

Yeah.

650

No, we can connect anytime Tyler.

651

Mm-hmm.

652

You can reach out to me anytime.

653

Cool.

654

Aaron has my contact information.

655

We can always set up a

time, you know, I find these

656

relationships extremely valuable.

657

Mm-hmm.

658

You know, Aaron's been really honest,

like, Hey, this is not my space.

659

And I'm like, oh, that's dope.

660

We're gonna learn a lot together.

661

You know what I mean?

662

And I think that's how we

get to a healthy place.

663

Right.

664

We have a lot to teach each other.

665

Mm-hmm.

666

And there, there's a reason

why we cross paths and there's

667

a reason why we do this work.

668

And I think by us doing that, not only

will we learn a lot from each other,

669

but we learn, uh, we learn things that

we can share out in our networks and

670

in our community and in our writing and

the professional careers that we have.

671

Um, do you have a quick

time for one more question?

672

Yeah.

673

Okay.

674

Come on.

675

Um, so this is kind of

a logistics question.

676

Um, so surviving on the inside

obviously costs money just like

677

surviving on the outside, except,

you know, in jail it's legal mm-hmm.

678

To pay incarcerated

people next to nothing.

679

So are you able to get paid for

your freelance journalism work,

680

or are there specific laws around

that that, uh, dictate if like a

681

news organization can pay you or,

or another incarcerated journalist?

682

Well, I definitely do and mm-hmm.

683

In Washington, we don't

have those laws, thankfully.

684

Okay.

685

Because, you know, they are

extremely dehumanizing mm-hmm.

686

And crazy that we could tell

someone that they couldn't be

687

paid for their created property.

688

Mm-hmm.

689

Um, so we don't have that issue.

690

Okay.

691

Um, so I think that, you know, we're,

we're really blessed to not have those

692

issues in this state, but there are

states that are dealing with that.

693

Okay.

694

There are many states across

the country where prisoners and

695

people in jail cannot get paid.

696

Right.

697

Yeah.

698

So, but they're exploited for

their creative properties.

699

Yeah.

700

Now they're has to do things all the time.

701

It's one of the big things that

I've always had an issue with.

702

It's not, you know, sometimes the tell

people's mad about the money, but it's the

703

fact that you didn't even offer or ask.

704

Mm-hmm.

705

Like, you just expect people

to just do all this labor.

706

You'll, you'll reach out to

incarcerated people mm-hmm.

707

And expect them to completely create

something and, and like really

708

redevelop something that you're doing

in your organization or something.

709

And you wouldn't even think that

you should have probably asked

710

that person, Hey, is there a way

I can compensate you in some form?

711

You have one minute left.

712

Oh.

713

Because that's something we would

do with anybody on the side.

714

Mm-hmm.

715

You know, on, on the outside.

716

So.

717

Okay.

718

And like getting back to humans.

719

But I can do this again later.

720

Okay.

721

But you can always connect again.

722

You can do many interviews.

723

Yeah.

724

I don't mind doing this stuff.

725

I love doing it.

726

No problem.

727

I just wanted to clarify that because know

we can get you to reach out to me here

728

or whatever, and yeah, I'm just grateful

to be able to do this with you guys.

729

Awesome.

730

Thank you so much for

talking to us today, Chris.

731

This is awesome.

732

Thank you so much for this conversation.

733

Let's touch base soon.

734

Okay.

735

All right.

736

I think it might be, it might, it might

have gone, the caller had hung up.

737

Okay.

738

So as you can tell at the end of

that interview, um, the communication

739

system at the prisons are very,

very strange and mercurial.

740

Um, it'll just cut you off when

you hit a certain time limit.

741

Um, sort of dropped the

call with no notice.

742

That's what happened

at the end of that one.

743

Um, so anyways, I thought that

was a really insightful interview

744

between Christopher Blackwell, who's

an incarcerated journalist who's

745

been published in acclaimed papers

across the country, um, and Erin

746

Hedge and Valerie OER here at Range.

747

Okay.

748

So I've never really flown solo by

myself like this before, and we've

749

got another 23 minutes to fill.

750

So I'm a yapper and I'm just gonna do my

best to pretend like you, the listener

751

or sitting here in the studio with me,

and I'm going to tell you about all

752

the news that's happened this week.

753

Um, one of the stories that range put

out yesterday actually was a piece that

754

I have been following for a long time.

755

I think I've talked about it

on the radio before, actually.

756

It's kind of my, my little

obsession right now.

757

I get into these reporting.

758

I don't know, I just, I'm like a bulldog.

759

I sink my teeth into it and I

can't really let it go, but.

760

I've been looking into union

busting at the local Planned

761

Parenthood, which is ostensibly a

pretty progressive organization.

762

Um, but we got ahold of some documents

last year that showed that they had filed

763

a contract with the government that,

um, you, you have to like, disclose if

764

you have these sort of labor contracts.

765

Um, and they had filed a contract

with a union busting firm

766

at the rate of $425 an hour.

767

That was in early November.

768

Uh, at the end of every fiscal year, these

companies have to file documents that show

769

just how much money they spent on these

contracts over the course of the year.

770

And we recently got a

hold of that document.

771

So if you were wondering how much

Planned Parenthood of Greater Washington

772

and North Idaho spent on union busting

last year, I have the answer for you.

773

It is over $15,000, um,

$15,570 to be exact.

774

And you know, one of the comments I

had gotten on this story on Reddit, I

775

think was, well, that's pocket change.

776

That's barely any money at all.

777

And I do have a, a bit

of a response to that.

778

First of all, do we just let people

do a little union busting as a treat?

779

I don't, I don't think so.

780

I don't, I don't think

that's fair to workers.

781

Uh, no matter how much money you're

spending on union busting, it's

782

still probably too much money.

783

But when you really look at the

numbers, I think that $15,000 is

784

more significant than it might seem.

785

At face value first, of course,

it was $15,000 for the entirety of

786

2024, but when you look at when the

contracts were filed, it's got that

787

early November, uh, stamp on it.

788

So really Planned Parenthood spent over

$15,000 on union busting in just 49 days

789

from November to the end of December.

790

All of their 2024 spending was

done in the last two months.

791

Um, and that amounts to $317 a

day on a union busting contract.

792

I did a little rough math.

793

Um, of course they don't respond

to requests from comment from me,

794

but they have to file all of this

documentation with the government.

795

And, um, ProPublica, which is another

journalism outlet, I quite enjoy, kind

796

of collates all of these forms on their

website, including the nine 90 forms.

797

And so I have planned Parenthood's

798

where I'm getting a lot of this data.

799

Um, and as of 2023, they had, I

think it was 198 employees on staff.

800

So essentially for what they spent

on union busting in two months or 49

801

days, they could have paid employees

like a bonus of 80 some dollars.

802

Um.

803

Pulling these numbers

off the top of my head.

804

I have them written down somewhere.

805

Uh, it also, if you extrapolate

806

contract that Planned Parenthood

signed didn't have an end date on

807

it, nor did it have a spending cap.

808

So I think it's a pretty fair

assumption that they're continuing to

809

pay for those union busting services.

810

And if they continue at a rate of

$317 a day through the entirety of

811

2025, that would be an additional

$115,705 on union busting.

812

Um, when we published our initial

story back in December about

813

that first document we found that

disclosed the $425 an hour contract.

814

We continued reporting on this for a

couple of months, and one of the things

815

we found was that Planned Parenthood

was avoiding calls for accountability

816

from some of their major donors.

817

Some of these people had given

hundreds of thousands of dollars.

818

One person we talked to had given

half a million dollars, and they were

819

horrified to find out that Eastland Carl

Eastland, the CEO of Planned Parenthood

820

of Greater Washington in North Idaho

was paying for union busting activities.

821

Um, Carn Nielsen, a major

donor who gave $300,000 for the

822

construction of PP Gwynne's.

823

Spokane campus told me back in March

that the idea that the staff are trying

824

to unionize and eastlands trying to

break that just is not acceptable.

825

I'm appalled at what they're doing

and trying to silence all this.

826

Nielsen and other donors tried to get

ahold of anybody at Planned Parenthood.

827

Um, they both called Carl Eastland.

828

I think one of the other donors we talked

to called, uh, the board president.

829

They sent emails to any contact

info or any contacts they

830

still had at the organization.

831

And it was radio silence.

832

Um, and these are people who have donated

a lot of money, which is not to say

833

that they get to have any control over

a nonprofit's operations, but it is

834

to say that they wanted accountability

and they wanted to know that the

835

money that they donated was not being

spent on union busting activities.

836

Nielsen, who I just quoted from, had

written Planned Parenthood into her

837

will, and when she was ghosted by

Planned Parenthood, after she reached

838

out to inquire about union busting, she

ended up writing them out of her will.

839

For this story, I also called Planned

Parenthood, um, called the contacts

840

that I had there and tried to get

comment and did not hear back.

841

Um, on the last story, I was able to get

a hold of the board president for about 30

842

seconds until I told him what I was doing

and what I was asking questions about.

843

And then he started saying, hello, hello.

844

Like, he couldn't hear me and maybe he

couldn't, but I immediately called back.

845

He didn't answer.

846

I called back a third time.

847

He didn't answer.

848

I called back an hour later

and again, he didn't answer.

849

So I'm pretty skeptical as to

whether or not he could hear me.

850

So that was the piece that I

put out yesterday on the latest

851

update in the local Planned

Parenthoods Union busting saga.

852

Um, I would tell you, you could call

in and ask questions, but you know,

853

I'm by myself, so can't really answer

the phone and also I don't know

854

how, um, it's a little complicated.

855

Let's see other news

that happened this week.

856

Um, you know, governor Bob Ferguson

has been signing a lot of bills that

857

passed the legislature into laws.

858

Uh, one of his most recent pieces of

legislation that he signed was for rent

859

stabilization, which is an issue that

I covered a couple weeks ago in depth.

860

Um, the original version of

rent stabilization was quite

861

a bit stronger than what ended

up passing and becoming law.

862

Um, it, it was just a lot.

863

It, it, so rent stabilization

sets a cap on how much landlords

864

can raise your rent per year.

865

So if you're living in a house and you

pay a thousand dollars a month, um.

866

Without rent stabilization, your landlord

can come to you with a new lease and say,

867

okay, well the market's changed and I am

charging you $1,500 a month next year.

868

So if you wanna stay in this place,

um, you have a week or two to

869

decide if you're staying or find a

completely new pace, place to live.

870

And, um, if you wanna stay,

you have to pay $1,500.

871

And it can be really jarring for

people, um, to kind of find that out

872

with not a ton of notice that their

rent is going up by a massive amount.

873

Um.

874

Here in Spokane, we have a local remedy

to that where landlords have to give

875

a 180 day notice if they're going to

be raising your rent by more than 3%.

876

Um, my on the fly math is like notably

bad, but I think, uh, that would be if

877

you were paying a thousand dollars a month

and your landlord wanted to raise your

878

rent by more than $30, they would have to

give you a 180 day notice here in Spokane.

879

So anyways, we've got this rent

stabilization bill that wants

880

to set a cap on how much your

landlord can raise your rent.

881

The original draft was to set that

cap at 7%, so a thousand dollars rent.

882

Your landlord wants to

raise your rent by $70.

883

That's the maximum

amount they can raise it.

884

Um, I really should, uh, get my

phone out really quick and make

885

sure that that is indeed a 7%.

886

Um.

887

7%.

888

Uh, but essentially it would cap that your

landlord would not be able to raise your

889

rent by more than that in any given year.

890

Now, that doesn't necessarily

control the market in the same

891

way that rent control does.

892

Um.

893

Because if you move out of a unit

that you were paying a thousand

894

dollars a month for, I just checked

my math that I'm correct, it is $70.

895

But if you were paying a thousand

dollars a month for a unit and you

896

move out in between tenants, a landlord

897

without any kind of notification.

898

And so the next tenant that

wanted to rent that unit would

899

have to pay that new number.

900

This just protects tenants who are

living there and continuing leases.

901

So the original pitch was a 7% cap

that got softened down to a 7% plus

902

inflation or 10% cap, whichever is less.

903

So the version of the bill that got

signed into law recently would say that

904

if you were renting a thousand dollars

a month unit and your landlord wanted

905

to raise your rent by more than, um, a

hundred dollars, they could not do that.

906

It also, I don't remember the percentage

off the top of my head, but it does

907

include a notification clause of 90 days.

908

So if your landlord is going to raise

your rent by a certain percentage, I

909

wanna say it was anything more than 5%.

910

Anything more than 3%, maybe they have

to give you a 90 day notice so that

911

you can start looking for a new place.

912

There's some other stuff in there as well.

913

There's a few exceptions

that got written in for new

914

constructions are exempt from this.

915

Um, like I mentioned, there's no limit

for that between period, so a landlord

916

can jack up the rent to whatever

they want to in between tenants.

917

So it's not really, um, controlling

the market per se, as it is just

918

protecting individual tenants.

919

And, you know, we heard from renters

rights advocates who were really pushing

920

for a stronger version of this bill.

921

Uh, and at the end of the day, there

just wasn't the support, especially

922

in the Senate to make that happen.

923

The version that passed the house was more

aggressive and had firmer protections.

924

So I don't think this is a

fight that is going to go away.

925

I don't know that people consider

it a firm victory for renters.

926

I think it's maybe a first step

forward and continuing to lobby,

927

um, both of Spokane's House of Reps.

928

Uh.

929

Or both of Spokane's

representatives, Natasha Hill

930

and Tim Ormsby were in support of

the stronger renter protections.

931

They were big advocates for it.

932

Um, and so actually I think Natasha

Hill was a sponsor on a couple

933

of housing related bills intended

to increase housing supply.

934

Uh, I think she was on the one

intended to increase density of

935

construction on transit lines.

936

And so Spokane has a pretty, pretty

strong pro housing, pro renter

937

delegation down at legislation this year.

938

Um.

939

I will link a story about what

ended up in the final version of

940

the law in our page on KYR s.com,

941

so that you can take a little sneak

peek at that, figure out what to expect,

942

figure out what to hold your landlord

accountable to in case you maybe have,

943

um, a rent raise and you think this might

be illegal and you wanna check in on it.

944

And I'll also, um, I'll dig up my old

story on the local regulations as well

945

and throw in a link to that so that

you know, if you're in Spokane City

946

limits, there are additional protections

that you are subject to as well.

947

So that was one story

that happened this week.

948

Um, wow.

949

I really am yapping.

950

Let me see what else we

posted on our website.

951

Um, you know, the other big thing that.

952

I've been working on is a piece on the

Stripper's bill of Rights, and this is

953

another one of my little, like obsessions.

954

Um, I cover city hall, but I'm

also a labor rights reporter.

955

And what that means is that I seek

out and write pieces that center the

956

struggles of the working Washingtonian,

um, that help us move towards

957

collective power building for workers.

958

And you can definitely see that

thread in my stories about union

959

busting and poor labor conditions.

960

But I think, um, the stories

that I am most excited about

961

are my coverage on sex workers.

962

I've written a few pieces.

963

One of the ones I'm most proud

of was my story on the Stripper's

964

Bill of Rights last year.

965

You may not know this, but Washington has

some of the most, or I should say, had

966

some of the most draconian laws when it

came to regulations around strip clubs.

967

So until, um, early 2024, what those laws

looked like in Washington were really

968

strict zoning laws about where strip

clubs could and couldn't operate, which

969

ultimately lent itself to very few clubs.

970

I think in 2024 there was only 11

strip clubs in the entire state

971

of Washington, and that number

might have came from before.

972

Deja Vu Club here in Spokane, which

was actually the only strip club in

973

the entire eastern Washington, closed

974

And so we've got this.

975

There are club owners that

have like a monopoly on clubs.

976

It's really hard to open a new club,

and that creates this, this market

977

that gives club owners a lot of power.

978

On top of that, until recently, Washington

did not allow alcohol service and clubs.

979

You might be thinking

that's a really good idea.

980

When people get drunk, they might get

handsy, they might make dancers unsafe.

981

Like I can see where that

regulation came from.

982

But when we actually sat down

and interviewed dancers here in

983

Washington, they were overwhelmingly

pushing for that law to change,

984

pushing for a path for clubs to be

able to apply for liquor licenses.

985

This was for a couple reasons.

986

First, um, if there was liquor service

available in clubs, it's being served

987

by somebody with a mask permit.

988

Somebody who is qualified to do that.

989

Somebody who, you know, whose job it

is to keep their finger on the pulse

990

of whether or not somebody is too

intoxicated to behave themselves,

991

too intoxicated, to be safe.

992

And a lot of times people

want alcohol in strip clubs.

993

So when alcohol service was banned,

dancers told me that people would

994

just get hammered at the nearest

bar, or they would take shots in

995

the parking lot before they came in.

996

And so that would result in people

being really intoxicated really

997

quickly to the point of unsafeness.

998

And it was nobody's job

to keep track of that.

999

Um, and so dancers found

themselves in unsafe situations

00:48:42,917 --> 00:48:44,537

with intoxicated patrons.

00:48:45,362 --> 00:48:49,502

The other reason is the profit

model for dancers in Washington.

00:48:49,922 --> 00:48:54,332

Strippers in Washington are,

um, independent contractors.

00:48:54,362 --> 00:48:58,682

And so kind of like how, um, your

tattoo artist might rent their booth

00:48:58,682 --> 00:49:03,782

space from a tattoo parlor, or maybe

the person who cuts your hair rents

00:49:03,782 --> 00:49:10,352

their chair at a salon dancers rent

club time, or they call it stage fees.

00:49:10,562 --> 00:49:14,972

Um, so you basically pay a fee to

use the stage on any given night.

00:49:15,452 --> 00:49:15,932

Um.

00:49:16,892 --> 00:49:20,222

And this means that club owners

were almost exclusively making

00:49:20,222 --> 00:49:22,322

their money off of dancers.

00:49:22,472 --> 00:49:27,032

Dancers would come in, they'd pay

their stage fee, they'd dance, and

00:49:27,032 --> 00:49:30,332

then there's also services that

customers could add on on top of that,

00:49:30,332 --> 00:49:32,342

like private shows or lap dancers.

00:49:32,732 --> 00:49:37,442

And then dancers had to pay

fees for those services as well.

00:49:37,652 --> 00:49:42,212

So if a dancer's getting paid a hundred

dollars by a customer, a club might

00:49:42,212 --> 00:49:46,712

take $50 of that depending on what

their rate is or what their rent is.

00:49:47,552 --> 00:49:52,742

And this profit model created a situation

where club owners were incentivized to

00:49:52,742 --> 00:49:55,052

make their monies off of dancer's backs.

00:49:56,147 --> 00:49:59,927

Dancers had been lobbying for these

laws to be changed in Washington.

00:49:59,957 --> 00:50:02,867

They said, especially for folks

who lived in Seattle, it was more

00:50:02,867 --> 00:50:07,187

profitable to drive the couple of

hours over to Portland dance on stages

00:50:07,187 --> 00:50:08,987

in Portland and then drive back.

00:50:09,287 --> 00:50:13,577

Um, I've been interviewing, I think

I've interviewed her like five times,

00:50:13,817 --> 00:50:19,337

a dancer that lives here in Spokane,

but exclusively dances outta state.

00:50:19,337 --> 00:50:22,037

She travel dances in Wisconsin.

00:50:22,037 --> 00:50:24,467

She went down to Vegas for the Super Bowl.

00:50:24,917 --> 00:50:28,817

Um, and it just is more profitable

than trying to make a career here

00:50:28,817 --> 00:50:31,847

in Washington because of the way

our profit structure is set up.

00:50:32,267 --> 00:50:34,412

00:50:35,252 --> 00:50:39,122

Dancers organized through this group

called Strippers or workers that was sort

00:50:39,122 --> 00:50:44,072

of a labor collective of dancers across

the state that were really organized in

00:50:44,072 --> 00:50:48,632

the way that they pitched legislators, in

the way that they explained how necessary

00:50:48,632 --> 00:50:52,922

and important it was for something to

change with Washington's laws around this.

00:50:53,342 --> 00:50:54,992

They were ultimately successful.

00:50:55,172 --> 00:50:58,472

Uh, the stripper's Bill

00:50:58,772 --> 00:51:04,712

About half of it went into effect in

00:51:04,712 --> 00:51:07,802

00:51:08,522 --> 00:51:11,852

And so I did some reporting and a

story that's going to come out this

00:51:11,852 --> 00:51:17,822

afternoon, I think, on how well the

implementation of that bill has gone.

00:51:18,812 --> 00:51:19,832

Spoiler alert.

00:51:20,372 --> 00:51:25,742

Uh, it sounds like club

owners in Seattle have.

00:51:26,057 --> 00:51:29,387

Instead been looking for

loopholes in the legislation.

00:51:29,717 --> 00:51:33,527

So some dancers told me that they're

actually making a lot less than they

00:51:33,527 --> 00:51:37,727

were before the bill passed because of

what's called a revenue share model.

00:51:37,967 --> 00:51:42,437

Where instead of, um, charging

dancers for stage fees, the amount

00:51:42,437 --> 00:51:46,547

they could charge dancers was capped

in this new legislation at 30% or

00:51:46,547 --> 00:51:48,887

$150 a night, whichever was less.

00:51:49,337 --> 00:51:55,337

Um, they're now taking the money upfront

from the customer and then paying out

00:51:55,337 --> 00:51:58,547

dancers their share of the revenue.

00:51:58,877 --> 00:52:04,367

And this way it's not a fee, but they're

able to take as much of the money as

00:52:04,367 --> 00:52:07,067

they want without it being called a fee.

00:52:07,367 --> 00:52:11,597

And so dancers say that even in clubs

that have gotten their liquor licenses,

00:52:11,987 --> 00:52:17,447

it just seems like club owners are trying

to double dip, um, make money off alcohol

00:52:17,447 --> 00:52:20,297

sales and make more money off of dancers'.

00:52:20,297 --> 00:52:24,617

Laborers and dancers are really the one

getting the short end of the stick here.

00:52:25,442 --> 00:52:29,312

So I looked into, you know, how the

implementation of this bill is going,

00:52:29,732 --> 00:52:36,182

and also maybe some signs for hope,

some more organized labor from dancers

00:52:36,182 --> 00:52:40,772

who are pushing legislators to close

the loopholes in this legislation.

00:52:41,192 --> 00:52:45,332

Um, some stories from dancers who

are still looking to open their

00:52:45,332 --> 00:52:49,832

own clubs in Washington, trying to

figure their way around complicated

00:52:49,832 --> 00:52:52,622

zoning laws to open their own spaces.

00:52:52,622 --> 00:52:55,442

That would be stripper

owned, stripper managed.

00:52:55,772 --> 00:52:56,192

Um.

00:52:56,582 --> 00:53:03,932

And a dancer who throws their own shows in

Seattle with a really fair profit model.

00:53:04,262 --> 00:53:09,002

Um, they said that dancers can perform

just one set in one of their shows and

00:53:09,002 --> 00:53:16,622

come away making between, I think they

said 250 and $350 for like one set of

00:53:16,622 --> 00:53:21,092

dancing without having to do any lap

dances or private shows without having

00:53:21,092 --> 00:53:26,972

to give a cut to any club owner, which is

an extremely good rate for their labor.

00:53:27,332 --> 00:53:28,652

Um, so I think that while.

00:53:29,732 --> 00:53:32,702

You know, I think, uh, one of the

dancers I interviewed said like, club

00:53:32,702 --> 00:53:34,592

owners are gonna act like club owners.

00:53:34,592 --> 00:53:36,782

And that's definitely the case.

00:53:36,782 --> 00:53:40,532

There's, there's a lot of people

who just try to make as much money

00:53:40,532 --> 00:53:46,712

as they can, um, take as much from

laborers and workers as they can.

00:53:46,982 --> 00:53:51,752

But there's also a lot of hope, a

lot of reasons to stay optimistic.

00:53:52,172 --> 00:53:57,152

And I think, I really hope that

people read this story and start to

00:53:57,152 --> 00:54:01,382

see sex workers in a different light

start to value their labor and think

00:54:01,382 --> 00:54:05,762

of them as workers just like you and

I, who are united in the struggle

00:54:05,762 --> 00:54:11,192

for power and accountability and

fair wages, good working conditions,

00:54:11,252 --> 00:54:15,062

safety, the ability to build a life

for ourselves and our families.

00:54:16,082 --> 00:54:18,122

And that gets us to the end of our time.

00:54:18,122 --> 00:54:20,282

I hope you're not too

tired of my voice already.

00:54:20,842 --> 00:54:24,442

This is Free range, a co-production

of KYRS and Range Media.