Shownotes
Today’s podcast guest is Rosie Davies-Smith. PR agencies have led clients to believe they're the only ones who can do what they do. Rosie made it her mission to prove them wrong. After running her own agency for over a decade, she founded PR Dispatch, a platform which powers in-house teams to become the PR experts. Since then, over 500 brands have been given the training, expertise and contacts they need to take control of their PR in house and secure their own coverage at just 3 percent of the cost of a PR agency.
Rosie shares her expert advice on what really matters in PR (hint - good imagery!) and the variety of publications to pitch to. She'll provide you with actionable strategies to handle your PR efforts independently, reducing the need for external agencies. This episode is a must-listen for anyone prioritising brand exposure for their products in 2024.
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Transcripts
Welcome to the bring your product idea to life podcast.
2
:This is the podcast for you if
you're getting started selling
3
:products or if you'd like to
create your own product to sell.
4
:I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product
creation coach and Amazon expert.
5
:Every week I share friendly practical
advice as well as inspirational
6
:stories from small businesses.
7
:Let's get started.
8
:Today I am so excited to welcome
Rosie Davies Smith onto the podcast.
9
:PR agencies have led clients
to believe they're the only
10
:ones who can do what they do.
11
:Rosie made it her mission
to prove them wrong.
12
:After running her own agency for over
a decade, she founded PR Dispatch,
13
:a platform which powers in house
teams to become the PR experts.
14
:Since then, over 500 brands have been
given the training, expertise and contacts
15
:they need to take control of their PR in
house and secure their own coverage at
16
:just 3 percent of the cost of a PR agency.
17
:So I know we've spoken about PR on the
podcast before, but what I absolutely
18
:love is that every guest I speak to
has a different experience, different
19
:perspective, different ideas, and,
um, this is not a conversation about
20
:PR like any that we've had before.
21
:So Rosie has a really
interesting perspective on
22
:what PR is, what's important.
23
:And she also gives you some really
practical advice about how you
24
:can do your PR yourself without
needing to employ an agency or get
25
:anyone else to do the work for you.
26
:And hopefully you will find that really
interesting and also really empowering.
27
:So I would love now to
introduce you to Rosie.
28
:So hi Rosie, thank you
so much for being here.
29
:Rosie Davies-Smith:
Thank you for having me.
30
:Very excited to be here.
31
:Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, I'm
really excited to talk to you.
32
:So can we start with you, please
give an introduction to you,
33
:your business and what you do?
34
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah.
35
:Um, so my name's Rosie, uh, Davies Smith.
36
:Uh, I am the founder of, uh, PR dispatch,
uh, PR dispatch is a platform which powers
37
:e commerce brands to be, uh, PR experts.
38
:Uh, so we have insights training,
access to a press database, and,
39
:uh, they also have access to our
community and our support too.
40
:Um, combined the team have over 24 years.
41
:Uh, when it comes to PR, I ran a PR
agency, uh, for a decade, um, kind of
42
:before just doing, uh, PR dispatch.
43
:Um, so we know if we kind of, uh, power
the people behind, uh, the econ brand,
44
:uh, to become experts in PR, they can do
a really, really, um, good job because
45
:uh, PR is most powerful when it's done
by the people closest to the product.
46
:Vicki Weinberg: Oh, that's amazing.
47
:So if I'm understanding you
correctly, because I was about to,
48
:to ask the question, but I think
you've, you've answered it, Rosie.
49
:So PR dispatch is about empowering
small businesses to handle their own
50
:PR rather than presumably spending
what can be lots and lots of money
51
:on someone to do it for them.
52
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah, exactly.
53
:So, um, kind of from running
an agency, um, we know it is,
54
:it is very, very expensive.
55
:Um, you know, when you say 2000 pounds
plus a month, um, but it's creeping
56
:up to maybe three thousand, four
thousand pound minimum, uh, if you
57
:did want to work with a PR agency.
58
:Um, and kind of over the years, I
found that, you know, people who are,
59
:um, kind of behind the product or
maybe a small team of people working,
60
:um, for the brand was so much better
at doing the PR than a PR agency.
61
:You know, they know
the product inside out.
62
:They're passionate about the story.
63
:They can pivot really quickly.
64
:Whereas trying to translate that
to a PR agency is it's actually
65
:really, really difficult.
66
:And it is, it's a job in itself.
67
:Um, So we launched PR Dispatch in
:
68
:give those smaller brands, um, the
opportunity to kind of pitch to the press
69
:at a really, really affordable cost.
70
:So just 3 percent of what it
would cost, um, them if they
71
:were doing it with a PR agency.
72
:And actually what we started to
see is that the brands that were PR
73
:dispatch members and were doing it
themselves, were doing as well, if
74
:not better than the clients we were,
we had at, um, at our PR agency.
75
:So it became very apparent very
quickly that actually people that
76
:are kind of closest to the product
do actually, um, do PR best, even
77
:if you've got no previous, previous
experience or never done it before.
78
:Vicki Weinberg: That's really fascinating,
and I guess that comes back to what
79
:you said about those people being so
familiar with their product, their
80
:brand, their story, and maybe seeing
opportunities that PR agency maybe
81
:wouldn't, um, because they obviously
know everything in so much more detail.
82
:I also think that must be really
empowering for a small business
83
:because I've, um, obviously I'm a
service business, not e commerce,
84
:but I've done, had a little bit of
PR this year that I've got myself.
85
:I did a little bit of training, and
I think there's something really
86
:nice as well about that feeling.
87
:Like, okay, I can do this and just
getting over those barriers of approaching
88
:journalists or pitching your ideas.
89
:Um, I think that's also a really good
skill for small businesses to have.
90
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah,
it's, it's not rocket science.
91
:I think that's what I
learned pretty quickly.
92
:I mean, my background before I started
kind of the PR agency was not PR.
93
:Um, I actually worked
for a small business.
94
:I was given the task of
pitching to magazines.
95
:I'd never, um, I didn't even know
that's how magazines are compiled.
96
:I was completely naive.
97
:I just didn't know that, you know,
you emailed a magazine about your
98
:product and they then compiled pages
and they might email you back at some
99
:point and say, hey, actually, this
works really well for what I'm doing.
100
:And I was just completely blown away.
101
:Not only how beneficial it was to a brand,
it was a knitwear brand called Loewe.
102
:We worked with them for 10 years, then
our PR dispatch member and they got really
103
:good traction in kind of the first few
months of me just kind of consistently
104
:emailing magazines every single week.
105
:And it made a massive difference,
um, you know, to their awareness
106
:and it was a key time of year.
107
:It was leading up to Christmas and you
could see it was having a big impact
108
:kind of on people coming to their
website and probably sales as well.
109
:Um, but it was so easy.
110
:I couldn't believe it.
111
:I was like, this is so easy to do.
112
:And actually quite enjoyable.
113
:Um, so yeah, I, I agree.
114
:Once people kind of start the ball
rolling with it, um, it's, it's a very
115
:addictive, it's a very addictive feeling.
116
:It's just getting over that initial,
initial hurdle of starting and not
117
:feeling that imposter syndrome or like
you're annoying them or, you know,
118
:you don't know what to say, kind of
getting over that first hurdle, I
119
:think is kind of the biggest, um, the
biggest stopping point for many brands.
120
:Vicki Weinberg: Absolutely.
121
:I know for me it was
definitely a mindset thing.
122
:I just felt a bit silly, sort of
emailing someone I've never met and
123
:saying, I've got an idea for a story.
124
:It just felt really daft until
you realize, like you say,
125
:that's what everyone's doing.
126
:Like any story you read
presumably has started that way.
127
:Unless of course a journalist puts out
a request, which is also, um, obviously
128
:another way of, another way of doing it.
129
:But I think that once you send that
first email, it just gets a lot easier
130
:and it becomes, I hope this is useful
for everyone listening, as well for
131
:me, especially, you know, I think you
can send lots of emails and you might
132
:only get one or two replies if that,
but it's water off a duck's back.
133
:You don't really, you think that
you're going to care if someone doesn't
134
:reply or if they say no, thank you.
135
:And actually they don't
usually say no, thank you.
136
:Do they?
137
:Let's face it.
138
:They're busy.
139
:They just don't reply.
140
:But I think you soon realize it's
not personal and you just move on to
141
:the next one and just keep doing it.
142
:And no harm done really.
143
:Rosie Davies-Smith: It's,
it's, it's totally true.
144
:And that mindset is such a good mindset
to have, you know, we say, we say to
145
:our members, it's, it's actually PR is,
yeah, the coverage is great, but the
146
:actual work of PR is just sending those
emails consistently, you know, going
147
:back to them every three, especially
if you're an econ brand, going back to
148
:them every three months with maybe a
new product that you've got or something
149
:that's seasonal that they might be
interested in that time, they're only
150
:going to respond if you're relevant.
151
:And, you know, a lot of the time
you're not going to be relevant.
152
:You know, they might be doing a different
feature or they might have filled that
153
:quota for the features that they're doing.
154
:You know, they might store it for future.
155
:What we see a lot, especially with the
econ brands is, um, and I saw this a
156
:lot during when my agency days is the
press email back of previous pitches.
157
:So you might send a pitch about, I don't
know, uh, I'm looking at my press board
158
:in front of my pyjamas, for example.
159
:And, um, you send it in November and then
in March they respond and they say, hey,
160
:these pyjamas are actually really relevant
for something that I'm working on now.
161
:So it's about being, it's about
being visible, being in their
162
:inbox because they're the brands
that are going to get featured.
163
:The brands that are
being proactive about it.
164
:You're totally right.
165
:The brands that are being proactive
about it are the ones that are
166
:going to secure those features.
167
:Um, so yeah, just don't be disheartened
if you don't get those responses.
168
:Vicki Weinberg: Thank you.
169
:So it definitely sounds like
it's a case of just doing it.
170
:Um, and I know it's not as simple
as, well, it is and isn't as simple
171
:as that, but actually let's, if you
don't mind Rosie, let's go back to the
172
:beginning and talk about, so for small
businesses listening, how do you know
173
:if your business is actually ready to
do any PR in the first place, or whether
174
:there are other things you should be
thinking about before you get excited
175
:and and start sending out pictures.
176
:Rosie Davies-Smith: So my advice
to anyone is the way to think about
177
:PR is you should be doing it for
the lifetime of your business.
178
:You're never too small.
179
:But there is a difference between
being too small or being ready.
180
:And I'll talk about
being ready in a second.
181
:But PR is not something
that you do seasonally.
182
:It's not something that
you pick up and drop.
183
:You know, even if you've got a seasonal
product, the rest of the year you work
184
:on profile press or podcasts or, you
know, getting speaking opportunities
185
:that, you know, industry shows that
are really relevant to your sector.
186
:So PR is something you should be
doing consistently from the day
187
:that you launch your business.
188
:If, are you ready is a different question.
189
:So the only thing you do actually need
to do PR and it's not a press release.
190
:You do not need a press release.
191
:PR it is imagery.
192
:Um, so for econ brands, we talk
about four different types of
193
:imagery, um, product shots.
194
:So there obviously you'll cut out
white shots, clear or white background,
195
:and they will be included in those
kind of roundups, product roundups,
196
:um, lifestyle shots, which probably
most of the listeners have, you
197
:know, your product in a lifestyle
um, setting being used or whatever
198
:it is, um, behind the brand imagery.
199
:So that might be, you
know, your office space.
200
:Um, if you've got a physical store,
it might be a physical store.
201
:It might be, you know, making photos,
the process, um, and finally, uh,
202
:founder shots, so photos of you
headshots, um, kind of something
203
:with a person, a key person in your
business, um, you don't need all four.
204
:You actually just need
one of them to start.
205
:So if you only have a founder shot
and you know that you're going to
206
:run with that, then start with that.
207
:Start with kind of these more
interview based, um, stories.
208
:If you've got product shots, then
that's a great place to start, you
209
:know, pitching into these product
features, roundups, print and online.
210
:Um, and I say, build, you know, we
haven't got endless amounts of budget.
211
:That's like an extensive
list of imagery to have.
212
:So every time kind of, you have some
budget or you're thinking about next
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:season, or you're thinking about,
you know, ramping up your pressing,
214
:what is the next kind of imagery I
can add to my rapport, if you like.
215
:So I've got more imagery to send out.
216
:But once you've got imagery, which
I'm going to assume if you're
217
:launching a brand or a business, you
have some form of imagery to sell
218
:the product, you are ready to do PR.
219
:Vicki Weinberg: That's really good news.
220
:Thank you, Rosie.
221
:Thank you for explaining that because I
think it can be tempting to think, oh,
222
:I'm not, um, you know, I'm not ready.
223
:I'm too small.
224
:I'm, there's all, you know,
there's all sorts of excuses we
225
:can give ourselves, aren't there?
226
:So I think that's really good to know.
227
:And now this might be a really stupid
question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
228
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Never,
never a stupid question.
229
:Vicki Weinberg: So you mentioned, um,
so when I speak to people, um, about
230
:social media, building media, all
sorts of other topics around starting
231
:a business, um, we're, we're sometimes
told actually start before you, you
232
:know, before you have something.
233
:So I know, for example, lots of
brands when they, even when their
234
:product isn't quite ready to sell,
they might get on social media.
235
:They might start building
up their email list.
236
:They might start with their website.
237
:Is that too soon to start thinking
about PR or is there something we can
238
:be doing then as, then as well, when
we're in those very early stages?
239
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah.
240
:I think that's a really good question.
241
:Um, so my, so the longest lead time,
so lead time is how far ahead the
242
:press are working is about six months.
243
:So anything before six months, I wouldn't.
244
:Uh, before six months before you launch,
I wouldn't be thinking about PR, but
245
:you can be building that imagery once
you've got any types of imagery that
246
:I've talked about to send to the press
and you have somewhere to send them.
247
:So I recommend a landing
page that looks nice.
248
:Please make sure it looks nice.
249
:Um, maybe capturing email addresses,
for example, before you launch,
250
:um, then you're ready to get going,
but just remember those lead times.
251
:So you're not going to contact
online press if you're still
252
:six months away from launch.
253
:Um, they, they do want to, I
should also say a launch, this
254
:is in the nicest possible way.
255
:And this is so people don't
waste their time doing it.
256
:A launch isn't news to the press.
257
:If you've got no previous you know,
brand history, you haven't run a big
258
:business before, or kind of something
that's well known, they're not going
259
:to write about your brand launching.
260
:It's just not going to happen.
261
:So I recommend trying to start with
kind of those product features, maybe
262
:kind of, um, some niche interviews,
you know, if you're a knitwear brand,
263
:for example, there was some really good
knitwear magazines out there or knitwear
264
:platforms where they really specialized.
265
:It's really, really niche.
266
:Um, we had one member that was
on a podcast, I think it's called
267
:Maker Meaning, and it was, it
was very, very, very niche.
268
:It was the stories behind why
makers make, um, but it had
269
:250 listens in the first hour.
270
:So.
271
:Think about don't don't try
and kind of just get your
272
:launch into the national press.
273
:Think about really niche, you know,
platforms that are going to drive
274
:people, um, kind of really care about
what you're doing to, um, your website.
275
:But once you've got that imagery,
I'd say anywhere between six months
276
:up to your launch date is a good
time to start thinking about PR.
277
:Vicki Weinberg: That's really helpful.
278
:Thank you, Rosie.
279
:And I also liked what you said about not
always going for the big publications
280
:and going a bit more niche as well,
because it can be really tempting to
281
:think, oh, I'd love to be in the, I don't
know, the Guardian, whatever, wherever
282
:you want to be or a certain magazine.
283
:But that's actually such a good point
about thinking about where your customers,
284
:you know, what they're listening to
and what they're reading and being a
285
:bit more targeted because actually you
could get a lot more sales, which is
286
:what we're all after from featuring
in a, let's say the sock example,
287
:featuring in a knitwear magazine or
whatever it is than being on in something
288
:big with a much wider readership or
listenership, but actually only a
289
:percentage of those people might actually
be interested in what it is you sell.
290
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Exactly.
291
:I say, I say to our members,
don't be a publication snob.
292
:Because if you just want to be in
the Guardian and the Times, you're
293
:going to be waiting a long time.
294
:Try and spread your
net as far and as wide.
295
:Obviously, it needs to be relevant.
296
:It needs to be relevant.
297
:Otherwise, they're not
going to feature you.
298
:But try and like spread your
net as far and wide as you can.
299
:Think niche.
300
:Think podcast.
301
:Think other medium.
302
:Think YouTube.
303
:Um, I love print and online magazines
don't get me wrong, but there are so
304
:many other ways to PR um, your product.
305
:And when I, when I say don't be a
publication snob, I mean, we had a member,
306
:um, a few years ago and they really
wanted like high fashion publications,
307
:which great, so does everyone, but let
me tell you now they don't drive sales.
308
:Um, and I think they got featured in
a woman and home and country living.
309
:And actually you could see a direct
correlation between the readers and
310
:people purchasing and it was amazing
and it's not a publication they wanted
311
:to be in because I think it was seen as
a bit uncool but actually it was so, so
312
:powerful and the readers were so engaged.
313
:Um, so yeah, cast your net as far
and wide as you can when it comes
314
:to who you're reaching out to.
315
:Vicki Weinberg: That makes sense and I
think as well that I guess the more niche
316
:you go, you go the more likely you have
of your story being picked up as well.
317
:So.
318
:100%.
319
:For my example, I have had, I tried
to get a bit of PR for something
320
:earlier this year and I had much
more success with my local press.
321
:I think because I was local, there was
that angle, whereas the kind of the
322
:bigger publications, I guess there just
wasn't as much of a story for them.
323
:But the fact that someone had done
something locally, all the local press
324
:were like, oh yeah, this is great.
325
:This is really relevant.
326
:So it's not the best example for
products, but I do think that
327
:sometimes you have a bit more luck
if you're sort of really targeted.
328
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah 100%, 100%.
329
:People always forget
about local press as well.
330
:It's super, super powerful.
331
:Vicki Weinberg: So we are
recording this at the end of:
332
:Um, but when everyone's listening,
it's going to be early:
333
:And I would love to talk a little
bit about the new year and how to
334
:start the year one step ahead as an e
commerce business when it comes to PR.
335
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Um.
336
:So imagery, I can talk about imagery
for 45 minutes, I would, um, just
337
:reviewing kind of what you've got,
what you might think about getting
338
:done in 2024, what you can run with.
339
:Let's, let's go positive.
340
:Like what, like based on the
imagery that I mentioned earlier,
341
:you know, what's your strongest?
342
:What can you, um, what can you start with?
343
:I would also, um, recommend
setting time aside.
344
:So PR is one of those activities that is
important, but it's never, ever urgent.
345
:It will always, always, always go
to the bottom of the to do list and
346
:everything else will always overtake it.
347
:So, we encourage members to set
aside a minimum of 60 minutes a week.
348
:It can absolutely be done in 60 minutes
a week if they've got longer, fantastic.
349
:But 60 minutes a week just to pitch to
the press and nurture relationships.
350
:PR is all about relationships.
351
:So just nurturing, you know, those
relationships, going back to people
352
:that you maybe pitched to three
months ago, you know, following them
353
:on LinkedIn or Instagram, um, just
nurturing that PR every single week.
354
:Yeah, after imaging, I would
say set aside, um, that time and
355
:my third piece of advice would
be for:
356
:Stop, um, putting it to the bottom
of your to do list if that's what
357
:you've been doing, because the
sooner you get going, the sooner
358
:you'll start, um, to get coverage.
359
:So even if you can just set aside 60
minutes and reach out to five people a
360
:week, just five people a week, you are
doing so, so much more than your capacity.
361
:Vicki Weinberg: That's
really helpful, thank you.
362
:Because I know that times right now
are really tough for everyone, for
363
:consumers, which we'll talk about in
a moment, and for small businesses.
364
:Um, so, and why do you think it's
still important to invest in pr?
365
:Because I think, I think there will
be people who are saying yes, but you
366
:know, why should I think about PR when
I'm struggling to, I don't know, make
367
:cash flow work or, you know, there's so
many challenges at the, at the moment.
368
:So why do you advocate for businesses
still focusing on PR during these times?
369
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Because I honest,
honestly believe if you have no, if
370
:you have no kind of awareness strategy.
371
:Um, aside from social media, uh, you're
going to really, really struggle to stay
372
:in business because people, people are
not going to shop with you if they're not
373
:aware of you and Instagram is great, but
let's be honest, that is, that is limited
374
:to how many people you are going to reach.
375
:Um, PR is by far the best
activity for awareness.
376
:If you secure coverage, it makes hundreds,
thousands of people aware of you.
377
:What it also does, and this is why
we'll talk about this in a second about
378
:consumers, is it makes people trust you.
379
:So if you've got three people in your
sector, um, you know, you will make
380
:similar products, similar price point,
maybe a similar audience competitors, if
381
:you like, and one of you is doing PR and
you know, it, it's really obvious you're
382
:trusted by this magazine as seen in this
magazine, this product was highlighted.
383
:That is the brand that is going to get
the sales because people trust them.
384
:Um.
385
:So that is why I would absolutely,
I kind of not think, oh, we've got
386
:no budget, so I'm not going to do PR
right now, but we'll spend on ads.
387
:Don't spend on ads until you've
got PR coming in because ads
388
:are going to support your PR.
389
:PR should be the first activity.
390
:Vicki Weinberg: That makes so much sense.
391
:Thank you.
392
:Because also, um, when we talk about
ads and PR, PR presumably can cost
393
:you a lot less money than ads as well.
394
:So again, I think it sounds like you can
do a lot with your PR just by investing
395
:your time and not perhaps investing any
money or investing a little bit of money.
396
:Whereas ads, as we know, can, you
know, the spend can just spiral.
397
:Um.
398
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yes.
399
:Vicki Weinberg: It's a lot
more in terms of investment.
400
:And of course, you know, we
don't know what the payoff is
401
:going to be for ads or, or PR.
402
:Um, but yeah, PR to me seems like much
less of a financial commitment and more
403
:of a time commitment, which hopefully we
can all find 60 minutes a week to do that.
404
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Definitely.
405
:Vicki Weinberg: Thank you.
406
:And so let's talk a bit about
consumers as well, because times
407
:are hard for small businesses.
408
:They're also really hard
for everyone, aren't they?
409
:Because disposable income
is definitely going down.
410
:Um, but so is there anything we
can do in terms of our PR to help.
411
:When I think spending, you know, and
I think that's part of the reason
412
:small businesses are finding it tough
is people are, I think, spending
413
:a little bit less at the moment.
414
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah, absolutely.
415
:So, um, I talked about the trust element.
416
:I can't emphasize how important that
is for consumers, you know, they want
417
:to there's so many brands out there.
418
:They want to they want to purchase
with people that they trust and PR is
419
:probably the top um, thing you can do
to build trust, um, with consumers.
420
:But the other element that is really,
really important and people don't
421
:really consider a lot when they think
about PR is, um, emotional connection.
422
:So there's two types of
PR for e com businesses.
423
:One is products.
424
:Um, so, you know, product roundups,
shop this look and have all
425
:the kind of nice product stuff,
which is really, really great.
426
:And it's great for awareness
and it's great for trust.
427
:But the other type of PR for e com
businesses, and I always recommend you
428
:do both split your time across both
is, uh, what we call profile press.
429
:So, um, this is what service
businesses would do, but it's still
430
:really relevant for e com it's, you
know, meet the maker, an interview
431
:with the founder, a day in the life.
432
:Um, it might be an interview about a shop
opening, um, it might be, you know, what,
433
:how you overcame, you know, a mental
health battle to start your business or
434
:why, why your product is so relevant.
435
:What, what about your story?
436
:What about your journey, you know, has led
you to create this product or this brand?
437
:Um, and that emotional connection
is what will drive consumers
438
:to, um, spend with you.
439
:I am so brand loyal to, um, to brands
where I have an emotion that I have
440
:an emotional connection with, and
it's normally with the founder.
441
:So putting the founder at the
forefront of your stories, I think
442
:it's really, really important.
443
:Those that do will reap.
444
:Um, the rewards and we've seen it in
all the reports this year, like we've
445
:been, um, kind of pulling together
all the reports for:
446
:consumers want an emotional connection
with the brand before they shop with
447
:them, um, they want that feeling.
448
:Um, so yeah, you can use PR to
tell your story in a different way.
449
:And then when you do get that coverage,
just make sure you're sharing it.
450
:Um, don't kind of, um, just
think, oh, well, I got featured
451
:in a magazine and that's it.
452
:There are some laws around sharing.
453
:I'm not an expert in it, so I'm not going
to go into it, but, um, you know, making
454
:sure you've kind of shouted about it
on your Instagram or shared it on your
455
:LinkedIn or put that logo on your website.
456
:It's all really, really important.
457
:It's going to drive um, firstly, awareness
of people that don't already know you,
458
:but people that do know you, maybe they're
on your mailing list and they joined your
459
:mailing list, but they've never shopped
with you or they follow you on Instagram
460
:and they've never shopped with you.
461
:It just might be that final push they
need to make that purchase to know
462
:kind of your story or what you overcame
or why you're doing what you do might
463
:just be, um, that emotional connection
they need to make that purchase.
464
:Vicki Weinberg: That makes so much sense.
465
:Thank you, Rosie.
466
:I think that, yeah, knowing a bit
about the background of a brand
467
:just stops them being faceless.
468
:And I think it makes a huge difference.
469
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah, it
makes me, it makes me sharp.
470
:Vicki Weinberg: And actually, that's
kind of the whole point of this
471
:podcast is to feature brands and their
stories, partly so they could, those
472
:brands can help other people learn
from what they've done, but also to
473
:share those stories and the background.
474
:And I find that I and my listeners
as well are so loyal to brands that
475
:have been on the podcast because you
know, it feels like you know them.
476
:It feels like you know who this brand
is because you've, you've had the
477
:founder's voice and you've had them
talking about their, their products.
478
:And yeah, and I think that does keep
us saying come back to brand loyalty.
479
:I think we're much more loyal when we
feel that we know who the business,
480
:who the person behind the business is.
481
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Whenever,
whenever I need to buy something.
482
:Um, a suitcase actually is the most
recent, um, kind of example of this.
483
:I will always think who,
who did I hear from?
484
:And like, I bought a suitcase from
away because I heard the founder
485
:on a podcast, how I built this.
486
:So I, instead of all the suitcases I could
have bought, I probably spent double what
487
:I wanted to spend on a suitcase, but I
did it because I'd heard her journey.
488
:I'd heard what she had overcome
to start this business.
489
:And it's so, so true.
490
:If you're thinking, you know, Oh, I'm
going to get featured on a podcast and
491
:then I'm going to get loads of sales.
492
:It doesn't work like that.
493
:It's about people remembering you.
494
:So when they do need that product,
you are absolutely forefront of mind.
495
:You're the person that they remember.
496
:Vicki Weinberg: Absolutely.
497
:Um, yeah, that's, and that's
actually leads me on really nicely
498
:to my next, my next question.
499
:So as you've said, we, you know,
you might go on a podcast and you
500
:might not get instant sales or from
a magazine piece, but how can you
501
:tell what return, if any, you're
getting from the PR that you're doing?
502
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Oh,
I love this question.
503
:Please don't think about, uh,
PR in terms of what kind of
504
:return you are going to get.
505
:It is not a marketing act marketing
activity, it's an awareness activity.
506
:I, when people kind of really
want to measure, um PR, I would
507
:say look at it year on year.
508
:So do PR activity for 12 months and then
review at the end of those 12 months.
509
:And you're looking at metrics like,
have my website users increased?
510
:Has our revenue increased?
511
:You know, you might see some people
clicking through from online articles, but
512
:apart from that, it's so, so difficult.
513
:Um, it's so difficult, uh, to
measure because someone will see you.
514
:That we had, I don't know how
many, I think we had about 15
515
:members featured in the Guardian
Christmas gift guide, um, last week.
516
:Um, and some of them did actually get
sales from it and it's very, very clear,
517
:but a lot of them maybe didn't, and it's
about, you know, someone coming to their
518
:website that might buy something else,
you know, they'll see the product that
519
:they saw on the Guardian, but actually,
you know, something else takes their
520
:fancy or, you know, they saw a notepad
in the Guardian that they want to buy for
521
:themselves, not as a Christmas gift, so
they'll come back in January and buy it.
522
:So, I would, if you're going to look at
PR activity and kind of what return you're
523
:getting, I would annually review it.
524
:Don't drop it, and if you don't
feel like your website traffic is
525
:increasing or you're not getting the
coverage, um, that you should be.
526
:You need to look at what you're doing,
kind of what you're doing, how much,
527
:how often are you emailing them?
528
:What are your assets like?
529
:I can tell you 90 percent of the time
that people don't secure the coverage
530
:that they think they deserve it's
because their imagery is not good enough.
531
:Um, so go back and kind of review all that
if you're not getting, um, the coverage,
532
:um, that you kind of expected, but PR
is very much a top of funnel activity.
533
:It's about awareness.
534
:It's about credibility.
535
:And then your marketing is to drive
people through your sales funnel.
536
:Vicki Weinberg: Thank you for humoring me
with that question because I know there
537
:are always people who want to, who want to
know, is it worth me doing this activity?
538
:Will, am I getting anything from it?
539
:Should I be dropping it?
540
:You know, especially as we're coming
towards the end of the year and, you know,
541
:make, making plans for the next year.
542
:So it sounds like your advice is do it.
543
:Don't drop it.
544
:And if it isn't working, think
about why perhaps it, you know,
545
:what other aspects are not working.
546
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Yeah, exactly.
547
:Vicki Weinberg: That makes total sense.
548
:Thank, thank you.
549
:Um, and I think it's really interesting
as, as well, what you've said about
550
:how you might see immediate results or
you might not, because I've definitely
551
:had that anecdotally from clients as
well, where they've done something
552
:and then it can be quite a while later
that it seems to be paying off and
553
:often it's an accumulation of things.
554
:So it's not just one event
being in one publication.
555
:It can be, you know, a couple of
months of consistent coverage.
556
:And then all of a sudden they'll say,
oh, my sales are around month for month
557
:or whatever, you know, whatever it is.
558
:And I think that's really interesting.
559
:It comes back to what you were
saying about people having to
560
:sort of see you consistently and
get to feel like they know you.
561
:Um, and I think for lots of us, just
one article or one podcast interview
562
:probably isn't going to be the thing
that changes the whole business.
563
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Absolutely not.
564
:I've actually got, have I
got time for a quick story?
565
:Vicki Weinberg: Of course.
566
:Yeah.
567
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Um, so I think it's
about:
568
:um, the agency and just as I launched
peer dispatch, I got a few, this is for
569
:the agency and for me as a founder, we
got a few pieces of small coverage and
570
:then we got contacted by, um, Elle.
571
:Um, actually no, we pitched Ellen,
we pitched Ellen, um, and she
572
:said, yeah, this sounds great.
573
:So it was an article about 23
female founders on the 30, um, and
574
:that was a great, great article.
575
:And, um, six months later I got a
call on the line at work and, um,
576
:it was the BBC and they said, we're
shooting the final of the apprentice.
577
:We'd like you to come in, um, be a judge.
578
:And they had actually found
me through that Elle article.
579
:So it, it's about building, totally right.
580
:It's building blocks.
581
:Don't think you're going to get one piece
of coverage and, you know, that's it,
582
:you don't PR and you don't need to do
it again, all of those building blocks,
583
:all of those small pieces of coverage
that we got kind of made us seem credible
584
:so that then Elle ran the article.
585
:And then six months later, the
BBC found us through Elle and
586
:asked me to be on the apprentice.
587
:So it is always.
588
:Always, always building blocks.
589
:And we, we do it consistently.
590
:So we're always showing up and we're
always forefront of mind, because if
591
:we weren't doing it, someone else in
my space would take over and become
592
:the forefront kind of leader in the
e com, um, kind of PR, um, space.
593
:And PR is the only thing that
doesn't stop that from happening.
594
:Um, so yeah, hopefully my story
kind of spurs you on to get going.
595
:Vicki Weinberg: Well, I didn't
know you were on The Apprentice.
596
:That's very exciting first of all.
597
:Rosie Davies-Smith: It's a
long time ago, a long time ago.
598
:Vicki Weinberg: I had no idea.
599
:So that's exciting.
600
:I've got so many, I'm refraining
from asking my questions about
601
:that, holding myself back.
602
:But I really like that story.
603
:And I really like what you said as
well, because the key thing that's, as
604
:you've been speaking, that came to me
like lots of things in business is about
605
:consistency and not just you know, trying
to get some PR in January and then think,
606
:right, take the rest of the year off now.
607
:I've done my bit.
608
:Um, I think it's like
everything, isn't it?
609
:It's just keep on doing it.
610
:Um, and as you say, it all
starts to build a bigger picture.
611
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Exactly.
612
:Yeah.
613
:Keep, keep going.
614
:Don't stop.
615
:Vicki Weinberg: Well,
thank you so much, Rosie.
616
:Thank you for everything you've shared.
617
:Before you go, um, I have got one
final question, which I don't think I
618
:prepared you for, but I'm sure you'll
have an answer, which is what would
619
:your number one piece of advice be to
e commerce businesses listening now
620
:wanting to get going with their PR?
621
:What's the one thing you
want them to take away?
622
:Rosie Davies-Smith: Um, I could
say imagery, but I've talked about
623
:that a lot, so it would be that you
are completely capable of doing PR.
624
:If you run a business, if it's just
you, or, you know, you're working
625
:with one or two other people.
626
:I can't tell you how capable business
owners are of doing their own PR, um,
627
:you have all the skills you already need.
628
:It's not rocket science.
629
:It's really, really easy.
630
:So yeah, I would say just kind
of, uh, start doing it so you
631
:can start building those blocks.
632
:Vicki Weinberg: Perfect.
633
:Thank you.
634
:That's such a nice
positive message to end on.
635
:Thank you so much.
636
:Rosie Davies-Smith: No worries.
637
:Thank you for having me.
638
:Vicki Weinberg: Thank you
so much for listening right
639
:to the end of this episode.
640
:Do remember that you can get the
full back catalogue and lots of free
641
:resources on my website, vickiweinberg.
642
:com.
643
:Please do remember to rate and review
this episode if you've enjoyed it
644
:and also share it with a friend
who you think might find it useful.
645
:Thank you again and see you next week.
