Shownotes
Brendan Dekora is an engineer and mixer with credits with artists such as Trent Reznor, Foo Fighters, Steven Wilson, and Muse.
In this episode, you'll learn about:
- What You Need to Know as a Freelance Engineer to Align with your Clients
- Why “Vibe” is More Important than Skills
- How Authentic Content can be One of Your Best Tools
- Tips for Remote Mixing and Collaboration
- How to Navigate Moving into the Co-Production Role
- Drum Tuning and How to Get Great Drum Sounds
- How Being in a Major Music City Can Shape Your Career
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🌐 Website: https://www.brendandekora.com/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brendandekora/
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Credits:
Guest: Brendan Dekora
Host: Travis Ference
Editor: Stephen Boyd
Theme Music: inter.ference
Transcripts
The ultimate goal is for your clients to become your friends,
Speaker:to work on projects that you would listen to their music whether
Speaker:you worked with them or not. That's engineer and mixer Brendan Decora. Brendan's worked with
Speaker:some of the biggest names in rock, including artists like Trent Reznor, Foo
Speaker:Fighters, Stephen Wilson, and muse. Since Brendan and I both started
Speaker:our careers at iconic Los Angeles studios and have since moved to be
Speaker:freelance, I thought that could be a great topic for discussion. So this one
Speaker:is about everything. Freelance, from finding clients to remote
Speaker:collaboration. We get into stuff like why big credits don't matter as much as you
Speaker:might think. Credits don't matter big, you know, stuff you've worked
Speaker:on. At the end of the day, doesn't matter because there's still going to be
Speaker:a mountain of people that want to work with you because you are who. You
Speaker:are, when to consider what types of gigs are actually in line with your
Speaker:goals. There's so many projects that I took on in the past
Speaker:that, you know, I did because it was a great opportunity. But
Speaker:looking back, it wasn't a great career choice. And why it's important to have
Speaker:clear communication and understand expectations when working remotely. If
Speaker:you're expecting the mixer to add doubles or create harmonies
Speaker:or change arrangements or those, like, those things are
Speaker:production choices. If you're a freelance engineer or producer or want to make the move
Speaker:to become a freelancer, then you're definitely going to want to stick around for my
Speaker:interview with Brendan Decora.
Speaker:So there are a lot of people that want to transition to engineering production full
Speaker:time. You and I both worked in major studios and now are lucky enough to
Speaker:do that. What's your advice for someone that has a job? Maybe
Speaker:it's music related, maybe it's not. And how to, you know,
Speaker:become a full time freelance engineer. I mean,
Speaker:it's kind of an ongoing process, honestly.
Speaker:Okay, fair enough. I agree. I. The biggest thing that I've learned
Speaker:recently is it's about the relationships.
Speaker:It's about your personality. You know, you think about, you know, oh,
Speaker:I wanna. I wanna niche down on a genre, which is very important,
Speaker:but a lot of times people forget that it's about niching down on a
Speaker:certain personality type as well. And that the idea that, you
Speaker:know, the ultimate goal is for your clients to
Speaker:become your friends. Yeah. To work on projects that you would
Speaker:listen to their music whether you worked with them or not. Yeah. You know,
Speaker:that's the ultimate dream of every ideal client is
Speaker:that. And so it's figuring out how you
Speaker:can show that to the world, how you can
Speaker:show your personality, show your
Speaker:preferences, your musical tastes, that kind of thing. Because
Speaker:it's similar to, like, a session drummer, for example.
Speaker:There's a thousand session drummers out there that can do the job.
Speaker:Right. Why would they hire this guy? Because they're cool.
Speaker:Because they're a good hang in the room. Because they have cool ideas, they have
Speaker:unique perspectives, that kind of thing. It's all those pieces that
Speaker:really set it apart from the rest. Niching down on a
Speaker:personality type is like, I've never heard anybody phrase that
Speaker:that way. That's so true, because there's a
Speaker:lot of great situations where I've been where you just, like, don't want to work
Speaker:with the person. Right. You know, and the music was cool and it came out
Speaker:good, but everybody knows that, like, once we walk out the door, we're not gonna
Speaker:work together. We didn't really like each other. Right. Obviously, that can't
Speaker:be every gig, of course. How do you approach trying
Speaker:to tap into finding people that
Speaker:you relate with? It's something that I've been working on
Speaker:myself even recently, to be honest.
Speaker:But I think that a lot of it is
Speaker:in about the content that you put out, and
Speaker:showing that side of you to the world will attract those people
Speaker:anyway. I agree with that, you know, and so, you know, it's
Speaker:difficult, especially if you are working at, as an assistant in a big
Speaker:studio. You're the fly on the wall. Often you don't even
Speaker:allow to talk to people. Like, it's the engineer and the producer that are the
Speaker:main interface for the artists. Making that
Speaker:change of, you know, becoming the fly of being the fly on the wall
Speaker:to being the engineer producer, or whatever it is.
Speaker:It's a, it's a personality change as well. So it's a lot about, you know,
Speaker:everyone says this business is about psychology, but the more I've
Speaker:learned about psychology, the more I realize that that's actually true, you
Speaker:know, so it's interesting I drifted from your
Speaker:question, but, yeah, no, it's funny. I just had a conversation
Speaker:with some, uh, with somebody else who also has a podcast. We should tell people
Speaker:that you have a podcast. Uh, and we'll talk about that more later. And,
Speaker:uh, we were talking about the advantages of making
Speaker:content as, like, a music producer engineer. And you, like, really tapped into
Speaker:something about putting your real, authentic self out there,
Speaker:which is something that I've, like, pushed on the podcast for a long time.
Speaker:But I think that's super valuable now, because
Speaker:in our coming up, I would walk out the door. Capitol and
Speaker:Studio B, and walk into studio C and say, hi, you were at east west
Speaker:Glenwood place. You could do the same. Now you don't
Speaker:have that. Everybody's working at home. If people can find a way to
Speaker:understand who you are and if they click with you, I think that's just
Speaker:a really powerful, I hate to say marketing tool, but it's a
Speaker:marketing tool, and if you're authentic, it should be fun. I'm
Speaker:sure you enjoy doing your podcast. Exactly. Because they're hard. If you didn't enjoy
Speaker:it, you wouldn't do it. Yeah, for sure. Going
Speaker:freelance. Is there something that caught you off guard
Speaker:about being freelance? Like something that you didn't expect to be a big
Speaker:responsibility or a big challenge? I mean,
Speaker:other than finding a gig? Cause everybody would answer that. Yeah, of
Speaker:course. I mean, it kind of goes back to that
Speaker:first topic of, you know, figuring out
Speaker:the personality match. Yeah. And seeing,
Speaker:you know, and really kind of discovering what their vision is for the
Speaker:song and talking to the clients and figuring out how much
Speaker:they like the rough mix, even, you know, like so many times,
Speaker:you know, I'll get a project and I'll send over the
Speaker:rough mix, and I think it sounds pretty good.
Speaker:And they're like, yeah, this is. I hate this. This is totally the wrong
Speaker:direction. We need to go in this other direction over here. Or the opposite. You
Speaker:know, there's no rhyme or reason. Yeah. So it's figuring out, you
Speaker:know, where their. Where their journey is, what their goals are,
Speaker:and really trying to align with that as well. Yeah. Communication is
Speaker:probably the. I mean, everybody says
Speaker:communication is important, but I don't think, like, when you're starting out, like, when you're
Speaker:a runner at the studio and you're just, like, getting coffee orders, I don't think
Speaker:you understand to what level. Right. Communication is important.
Speaker:It's like, might as well be, like,
Speaker:vibe in a room. Communication,
Speaker:then maybe skillset after that, maybe. I don't
Speaker:know, but vibe in a room. So your experiences working in the big
Speaker:studios, when did you kind of, like, connect
Speaker:the idea that being the best guitar player, the best drummer wasn't
Speaker:necessarily why those people were in the room? Well,
Speaker:as you know, people come through the door and they're
Speaker:frankly not great musicians, but they're the nicest people
Speaker:you've ever met. Yeah. You know, it's like, they're super cool. They're super
Speaker:nice. And sure, they get the job done on their
Speaker:instrument, but it's about the hang. It's about the
Speaker:feeling of it. It's about the friendship about it.
Speaker:So that's obvious. If this business was about your
Speaker:skillset, then it would be a completely different world,
Speaker:you know, so very different.
Speaker:Very different. And obviously, we're not talking about, like,
Speaker:the classic studio musicians. Of course, the session
Speaker:players are the exception. They have both these guys that used to play, like, three
Speaker:sessions a day all through the seventies. Like, they have such
Speaker:a chill vibe. Right. And are just absolutely
Speaker:ridiculous. And I don't know if you've ever had this. I had it with
Speaker:it with Dean Parks. Yeah. And he was doing a
Speaker:nylon part, and I was, you know, I was putting the mic over here,
Speaker:you know, like, around the 12th fret. He was like, on this one, we do
Speaker:it here. And I was like, okay,
Speaker:you know where it goes on this one. Done. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, okay. That's actually an accidental segue to another question I had, which
Speaker:is the importance of getting the production and the sonics
Speaker:right from the beginning. Right. That's something that
Speaker:you and I have experienced working in big studios.
Speaker:We've seen people go down the rabbit holes of trying even different
Speaker:strats, not different types of guitars, different versions
Speaker:of the same guitar. Do you have any thoughts that you can share with the
Speaker:bedroom producer about the importance of making those decisions
Speaker:early and how that benefits the process in the long run?
Speaker:I think part of it is just a lack of knowledge on
Speaker:certain techniques and that, you know, oftentimes
Speaker:bedroom producers will try things out because they don't know,
Speaker:you know, the different tactics. They've never been to studios. They haven't seen other people
Speaker:do it. And so they're just kind of figuring out based on what they're hearing
Speaker:on records. And, again, with music, there's no. There's
Speaker:no correct answer. You know, there's a lot of times
Speaker:really odd things can work really great. Yeah. But
Speaker:often what's tricky is when people
Speaker:will send me a mix and they say, oh, okay, cool. I want this to
Speaker:sound like x number band.
Speaker:That's huge. And they've spent six months in the studio, and they
Speaker:doubled and tripled everything and have harmonies and have all this production stuff going
Speaker:on, and they send me a track with one guitar on it. Right. It's like,
Speaker:well, I can't. You know, this is so not the same thing. Not the
Speaker:same. Yeah. And so it's. It's a little bit
Speaker:tricky because, you know, oftentimes those people
Speaker:don't understand that's what that was, because they've never seen
Speaker:that. They've never experienced that. Yeah. And so it's about learning. And,
Speaker:you know, obviously we'll have conversations. We'll talk about, like, okay, well, if you really
Speaker:want this, then put some doubles on there at least, you know? You
Speaker:know, so we can pan it out, whatever it is. But
Speaker:I hesitate to say YouTube, because YouTube is
Speaker:such a. I don't hesitate to say it. There's a lot of amazing
Speaker:information on YouTube. There is. And I've learned a lot. Yeah. But there's also
Speaker:a lot of information that I guess it's hard to
Speaker:always know what information is correct or not.
Speaker:So it's difficult to know who to listen
Speaker:to, who to not listen to, you know,
Speaker:because on the other extreme, I've gotten projects where, you
Speaker:know, it's clear they. They watch YouTube a lot or
Speaker:try to learn a lot themselves. And they've sent me things with, like, every trick
Speaker:in the book. You know, it's like all these different, you know,
Speaker:techniques. It's like, oh, okay, they saw this video on this, or
Speaker:they, you know, someone told them to do this, and. But it's
Speaker:like everything all combined, and so it's like, well, if you just
Speaker:got great sounds in a room with a great player and a great
Speaker:instrument with a good sounding room, that would
Speaker:be better than all these tricks. Right. So it's,
Speaker:you know, sometimes the basics are more. More easy to get great
Speaker:results than all the fancy stuff, you know? Yeah. There's a lot of
Speaker:things I want to say about what you just said. Oh, okay. I wanted to.
Speaker:Let's go back to the YouTube thing, because you're probably watching this on YouTube,
Speaker:not you, but you. Right. There's a difference
Speaker:between information that's regurgitated
Speaker:and put out versus information that's based on
Speaker:experience. Right. And I think that's where the disconnect
Speaker:is, because it's not like, there's not a. There is bad
Speaker:information, but there's not a lot of, when it comes to, like, eqing, there's bad
Speaker:tricks. Right. But you're talking about people that maybe just haven't
Speaker:made records for 20 years. Right. You know, and
Speaker:also, the people that made records for 20 years
Speaker:probably aren't that good at sharing that knowledge in a way that
Speaker:connects with a hungry, wanna learn
Speaker:audience. Meanwhile, there's somebody else that can regurgitate that information in a
Speaker:format that people enjoy. Right. And
Speaker:so, yeah, I mean, I love you, too. I've learned something. We were talking about
Speaker:cameras before we started. Like, I've gone so deep down the rabbit hole,
Speaker:you can learn so much stuff for free. But I also want to touch on
Speaker:the fact that I think it's our responsibility
Speaker:as engineers and mixers in the room to
Speaker:educate people on what they want, which is you were touching on.
Speaker:And that goes back to communication. Be like, well, I can't give you
Speaker:the vocal sound that you want, right. Because it's
Speaker:just not here. But if you want to jump back, go turn your computer on
Speaker:and put a couple more doubles down, that's going to get you what you want.
Speaker:And I think that's something that
Speaker:is really important to do as an engineer, is to share
Speaker:that back with people and bring everybody up along the way.
Speaker:Yeah. And I guess one thing I wanted to say, too, is with the
Speaker:misinformation on YouTube, I guess there was one example recently
Speaker:where this friend of mine sent me this clip on
Speaker:Instagram that was about getting great top
Speaker:end in your vocal. Right. Okay. And so they basically went
Speaker:through keying the, you know, like a dynamic EQ
Speaker:keyed with a. With all the top, all the bottom end rolled off. And
Speaker:it's like, well, he's just made a deesser. And, you know, then you
Speaker:boost it after. It's like, it's not. It's not that complicated. You just put a
Speaker:deesser on it and turn one knob and then do the same thing. So it's
Speaker:like, things like that where, like, people are trying to get sensational, you know, like,
Speaker:oh, this amazing, really cool trick. It's like, well, if you just knew a little
Speaker:bit about how things work, then you see that that's not really. You
Speaker:know, oh, yeah, that reminds me of, like, some of the things that would come
Speaker:up when I was in school. Cause I went to engineering
Speaker:school, and it's like, let's make a deesser on the SSL
Speaker:channel, right? You have to figure out how to do it. Or like, let's. We're
Speaker:gonna record this in Ms. And you need to decode it, right? And you're like,
Speaker:you know, you pass your test and then you realize, like, I don't need to
Speaker:know these things ever again. This is pointless
Speaker:information. Now we're kind of touching on this. And this
Speaker:is another question that I had. Do you think
Speaker:that newer artists overweight
Speaker:the result of a mix? Are their expectations?
Speaker:Because you and I both do a lot of remote mixing, do they put too
Speaker:much weight on what they believe is going to be the outcome of that mix,
Speaker:whether that be a sonic change or even a popularity
Speaker:change? I would say yes, absolutely.
Speaker:It all depends on how much experience the artist has. I agree with
Speaker:that. Newer artists that may not have been through the process that don't
Speaker:understand there is a lot of that expectation,
Speaker:and I've even considered doing
Speaker:more production work because I get those clients
Speaker:that want me to mix something, but really, they need a producer
Speaker:and not a mixer. Yeah. And so, you know, it's
Speaker:about learning. I mean, it all comes with
Speaker:experience, really. Once you go through the process and you get a mix done by
Speaker:a professional, you can see what they can and can't do. And,
Speaker:you know, sometimes, as you know, you can take a
Speaker:song very drastically in another direction with a mix. It can
Speaker:go a very, very long. Way, and it can be a miss. And it can
Speaker:be a miss. Yes, we've all done that. Yes. But at the same
Speaker:time, it's, you know, learning that
Speaker:how much you want to change it with the mix. And, you know,
Speaker:whether that's, you know, if you're expecting the mixer to
Speaker:add doubles or create harmonies or change arrangements
Speaker:or those. Like, those things are production choices. Yeah. You
Speaker:know, like, one client I had recently,
Speaker:you know, sent me a some. I've
Speaker:been working with them, kind of helping them with production
Speaker:choices and say, okay, well, you know, is this guitar sound cool? It's
Speaker:like, oh, it's a little bit darker. Let's. You know, why don't you try this,
Speaker:and then we can go from there. Okay, cool. I'll change that and rerecord a
Speaker:bunch of stuff. And then. But they asked me about
Speaker:this process where they were going to, you
Speaker:know, add doubles and harmonies on all the vocals, on
Speaker:all the songs of. I'm like, well, yeah, I do encourage
Speaker:doubles and harmonies, but not everywhere. For every note of the song, like,
Speaker:you know, choose the chorus or choose certain things you want to highlight. You know,
Speaker:make those production choices right before you send it to mix, instead of sending
Speaker:me everything with everything and expecting me to chop
Speaker:through and create what you want based on that, you
Speaker:know. Yeah, yeah. That goes back to the. To
Speaker:the communication. But I wanted to ask you about navigating
Speaker:that additional production. Like, when you feel like something needs
Speaker:a boost and you're willing
Speaker:and think that you're the right person for it, how do you navigate that with
Speaker:an artist to be like, I think we need an extra step in here. Are
Speaker:you open to working with me in this capacity? It's always a
Speaker:fine line because, you know, growing up in
Speaker:big studios like we have, we've seen producers and engineers,
Speaker:and there is a very distinct line between those two roles. There
Speaker:is. Or there was back in the day. Yes. Yeah. But now it's, you
Speaker:know, especially when people, like, we were just talking about with a mixer that they
Speaker:want to take the song further or whatever else, like, you
Speaker:know, there's ways where, you know, I'll always
Speaker:mention if I hear something that can
Speaker:help the song align with their vision a bit more, you know? Of
Speaker:course the artist always has veto power, right? It's like, hey, like, I have
Speaker:this idea. You said you wanted this reference, and you said you wanted it to
Speaker:sound like this. I think we need to do x, y, and z in order
Speaker:to get there. You know, do you want to go back and do this, or
Speaker:do you want to create this? Or how do you want to. Do you want
Speaker:to just not do it at all? It's all about how you phrase it and
Speaker:how you. How you walk that line with the artist. And if you
Speaker:say it in a way where, you know, you're just. Clearly, you're just trying to
Speaker:help the end result, you know, instead of like, okay, I'm just
Speaker:gonna do this, and then if you like it, cool. But if not,
Speaker:then I think it sucks, you know, like, obviously that's not the way to
Speaker:do it, but, you know,
Speaker:so there's. There's a fine line to walk. Yeah. Well, I think
Speaker:if. I guess for, for an artist or producer that's listening,
Speaker:I think if you're willing to share work in progress with somebody you're thinking
Speaker:about working with as a mixer and you're open to being like, hey, what do
Speaker:you think? Am I going to be able to get what I want? Right. That
Speaker:can be a really amazing way to split the difference. I know some people don't
Speaker:like to share unfinished work, but, I mean, would you agree that that can
Speaker:be a massive benefit to the final product if they're
Speaker:willing to have a conversation of, do you think anything's missing?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, it's difficult, too, because, you know,
Speaker:people will do that, but then I'm still
Speaker:just the mixer role. Right. So it's like, well, are you
Speaker:asking me to my production choices? Cause they're working with a
Speaker:producer. I don't wanna step on their toes. That's true. That's true. So one
Speaker:thing that I've actually started to think about recently is that, you
Speaker:know, I'm happy to do, like, co production.
Speaker:You know, like, if there's something I hear that could take it a little bit
Speaker:further. Cool, I'll mention it. But I'm not trying to be your
Speaker:producer. I'm not trying to, you know, take over the whole project and
Speaker:start because obviously producers start before a note is recorded. You know,
Speaker:they go through the songs and, you know, choose keys and arrangements
Speaker:and all that stuff before anything's done. So I'm
Speaker:not trying to do that. But if it's already to the point
Speaker:where everyone's happy and then it's like, oh, well, what if you do this one
Speaker:thing or these two things? Cool. Like, that's an idea
Speaker:that may or may not work, but I, I'm open to
Speaker:my creative input as well, you know? Yeah, yeah, no, I. Yeah, you
Speaker:don't want to, you don't want to step on, on toes. I do. I do
Speaker:agree with that. Since we're kind of talking remote
Speaker:collaboration, do you have any
Speaker:tips for successful remote mixing? Like, if
Speaker:you're, you're living in Indiana and you want
Speaker:to up your mix game, like, do you have, whether it be a
Speaker:technical thing or a communication thing, anything that you would tell that. That
Speaker:person we talked about a little bit before, but I am all
Speaker:about actually talking to people. Yeah, you know, it's easy to
Speaker:do remote mixing and just all over emails and texting
Speaker:and things get lost. Yeah. You know, I think we were
Speaker:speaking before we started recording that. You know, sometimes
Speaker:there's projects where the artist will, you know, say, oh, you
Speaker:know, can you turn the kick drum down? And then it's like, yeah, cool.
Speaker:Here's the version of the kick drum down. Oh, that's better. And then three days
Speaker:later, oh, can you turn up the low end on the cake? Like, well,
Speaker:I just turned it down. Like, yes, I can turn the low end, but, and
Speaker:it's just a slight miscommunication where if you get on a call with someone,
Speaker:I'll often do, like, a video call with high definition
Speaker:audio. There's numerous platforms to do that
Speaker:so we can work together and actually stream my mixed and to their
Speaker:studio and I can explain, like, oh, well,
Speaker:you asked for more low end on the kick, but really it's, you know,
Speaker:because they were hearing it in their smaller car or their phone or something and
Speaker:they weren't cutting through. It was like, well, it's, you know, it's, I actually need
Speaker:to do this. And so this is the correct solution,
Speaker:you know, that I think you should do. And so it's easier to just talk
Speaker:through those things in five minutes instead of like, oh, but I did this. We're
Speaker:going in circles, like, why are you. And then that's a miscommunication.
Speaker:And people are upset. And it's so much easier to just talk to
Speaker:people in person. Yeah. And it's about
Speaker:understanding the intention. I'm sure you've done this, but.
Speaker:I. Used to send an email like, oh, here are the five things. This is
Speaker:how I addressed your notes. And I don't do that anymore. I'm
Speaker:just like, hey, I hit all your notes. And then I made this change that
Speaker:I thought, like, if somebody asked for the vocal up, it might not necessarily be
Speaker:that the vocal needs to be louder. It might be that, you know, the guitar
Speaker:needs to be a little darker and the vocal needs a little bit more top
Speaker:or something like that. Because we all know if you send a mix with vocal
Speaker:too loud, you're never going to turn it back down once
Speaker:it's already too loud. The singer's always going to love it loud. Yeah,
Speaker:yeah. No, I think that's great advice. I think using tools. What was the one
Speaker:that you, I. Like to use one called session wire. Which I'm not familiar
Speaker:with. It's kind of like audio movers and zoom put
Speaker:together in one platform. So you have video chat. There's a
Speaker:talkback channel, and there's a high definition channel. Cool. And there's
Speaker:like an auto mute thing for the talkback. And it's. It's
Speaker:their whole goal with it is making it as if, you know, like, you're in
Speaker:the studio and there's a piece of glass between. They're just standing right there. You're
Speaker:talking back and forth. Play the music. It's really seamless.
Speaker:Nice. So I've been liking it a lot. Nice. I use something similar called
Speaker:authentic audio. Okay. Basically, we're talking about the same product,
Speaker:more or less. I'm not. I haven't used session wire, but you just described the
Speaker:features of authentic audio. Awesome. So I want to backtrack
Speaker:back a few minutes to where we were talking about, you know,
Speaker:getting it right in the studio. Right. If I remember correctly, you
Speaker:are a drummer, as that's your. My first instrument, yeah. Okay.
Speaker:Do you jump in when you're recording and get into drum
Speaker:tuning? Like, what are your thoughts on drums? Is one of those things that has
Speaker:to be, if the instrument sounds fucking great, the recording sounds fucking great.
Speaker:Yeah. Tips for great drums. Do you, what do you think? Do you get in
Speaker:there in tune? I typically don't. I mean, I'm at this
Speaker:point, I'm probably 95% of my work is mixing, but when I was doing
Speaker:more engineering, I was working in big studios, and so
Speaker:I had the luxury of working with great drummers that often even brought drum
Speaker:texts and all that where you didn't have to, you know, on
Speaker:rare occasions, yes, I'll get someone that comes in with the crappy sounding
Speaker:kit and I'll try to tweak it a little bit
Speaker:if the drummer isn't willing or capable or whatever to do
Speaker:that. But even that's kind of walking a
Speaker:fine line because I don't want to insult the drummer. It's like,
Speaker:oh, can you tune this up a little? And then they try and it still
Speaker:sucks. I'm like, well, could I do it then?
Speaker:What do you, you know, so it's walking a fine balance.
Speaker:But obviously, if you can get great sounding
Speaker:drums tuned up well and drummers that can play
Speaker:them well, that's 90% of the battle. I
Speaker:mean, obviously we have the luxury of working in these amazing
Speaker:studios, and so you push up the fader and it sounds great. It's not always
Speaker:the case, but drums is a large topic, so it's hard
Speaker:to answer this question. No, totally. I set you up for a big one.
Speaker:Let me share a story real quick. Okay. So I was on this project
Speaker:where there was, it was a. It was an interesting project because it was
Speaker:like lots of different bands coming in and playing on the same backline.
Speaker:Okay. And it was like a project
Speaker:where it was a bunch of, like, newer artists
Speaker:and, you know, younger musicians, but it was
Speaker:with established producers. And so,
Speaker:you know, the whole day, you know, the producer and the engineer
Speaker:were trying to get it sounding great. The drums were
Speaker:not really that great sounding, and they keep cranking on the knobs and creep
Speaker:trying all these things and wasn't really that great. And then at
Speaker:1.1 of the producers that came in was a drummer,
Speaker:like a famous drummer. And just for fun, he sat down on the drum
Speaker:kit and started playing and it sounded amazing.
Speaker:So it's like, you know, like, well, that's the answer. Like,
Speaker:all these people were not playing hard or solid or
Speaker:it's, the player is a large part of the sound as
Speaker:well. And so that's, you know, I hate
Speaker:to turn it back on the artist, but at the same time,
Speaker:a large part of great sounding recordings is
Speaker:great performances. And yes, there is a lot we can
Speaker:do to fix things nowadays. We
Speaker:can tune things, we can time align things, we can do all that.
Speaker:But if the original source of the
Speaker:performance is not great, I mean, yeah, we can even put in samples if
Speaker:we have to, with drums. But even then, as a
Speaker:drummer, I honestly try to avoid using samples. Because
Speaker:to me, it starts to make it feel fake,
Speaker:you know? And obviously it's a balance. Like, if you keep them low enough, you
Speaker:can still, you know, have that natural sound, but then it doesn't
Speaker:quite. You can't quite change the sound enough if they're too low. Yeah. And
Speaker:so it's. It's always a balance. So I. You know, if I had to choose,
Speaker:it would be an amazing drummer in a great room, tuned well with,
Speaker:you know, obviously who wouldn't choose? Who
Speaker:wouldn't choose that tough, tough decision. It really is
Speaker:true that there is a lot, like when somebody is really
Speaker:honed in their craft, you know, the consistency that
Speaker:a great session drummer will hit the snare in the same
Speaker:place. Right. That's why, you know, you walk into a place like
Speaker:east, west, and somebody has, like, a U 67 on the
Speaker:snare and you're like, whoa, what's going on here?
Speaker:You have a session where the person's not going to hit a. That microphone, that
Speaker:drummer doesn't hit mics. You know what I mean? Yeah, but, yeah, the
Speaker:consistency that they hit with, or even guitars. Like, I've handed
Speaker:my guitar to a friend who's an amazing player,
Speaker:right. And I'm like, well, wait a minute, that
Speaker:sounds fucking amazing. Oh, wait, it's my
Speaker:fingers that aren't great. It's like, your fingers are different than
Speaker:mine. And the way that you hold those strings down is like. It just sounds
Speaker:so much better. Yeah. You know, there's so much. So much to just
Speaker:honing your craft. When did you come to Los
Speaker:Angeles? I came to LA in 2001. 2001?
Speaker:Okay. I came in 2006. Okay. Would you tell
Speaker:a young engineer in 2024 that it's a good idea
Speaker:or a bad idea to move to a major music hub like
Speaker:LA? When you look at the cost of laden and how
Speaker:tough it is to. Break in, I would say it's
Speaker:about where your career goals are. I like that answer.
Speaker:I think that there's a mountain of people out
Speaker:there that work in small towns, that have little
Speaker:studios, that work in their home studio or in their house
Speaker:or little local studios, and they all have great
Speaker:careers, frankly. And it's a different,
Speaker:different kind of life. You're probably not going to work with
Speaker:Beyonce or a super a list celebrity,
Speaker:right? That would be probably rare. But
Speaker:like I said, there's many people that have great careers, and
Speaker:so it's a little bit different because I would
Speaker:say it's different now as to early two thousands,
Speaker:because the prevalence of home studios has, you know,
Speaker:gone through the roof, exploded. Everyone has a home studio. Yeah. Or two.
Speaker:Or two. And quite frankly, you can get amazing results at home
Speaker:for a fraction of the cost of a big studio. Oh, yeah. And so
Speaker:that if anything has, you
Speaker:know, increased the argument for not doing this, you know,
Speaker:and just doing it in a small town and setting up a studio yourself and
Speaker:doing it. But the idea is that if you're doing it yourself
Speaker:and not working for a studio, you then have to learn all about business,
Speaker:because you're opening a business for yourself. Yeah. Marketing and everything
Speaker:else. And that's the same if you do it in LA or any of the
Speaker:big, big hubs, you know, because ultimately.
