Christine Brennan is an award-winning national sports columnist for USA Today, a commentator for CNN, ABC News, PBS NewsHour and NPR, a best-selling author and a nationally-known speaker. Named one of the country’s top 10 sports columnists three times by the Associated Press Sports Editors, she has covered the last 18 Olympic Games, summer and winter.

They discuss:

:45 - Her proudest achievements as a sports journalist over the years

3:17 - Saudi Arabia: The sportswashing debate; Greg Norman's horrendous comments & potential players accepting blood money

7:44 - China: What about its horrible human rights record & how are leagues/organizations/journalists responding

11:10 - Women's Tennis Association: Leading the way by pulling out of China over Peng Shuai & the clear message that sent.

13:02 - More on Saudi: The Ladies European Tour (LET) is playing in Saudi Arabia and has six total Saudi sponsored events on the schedule. The LPGA has controlling interest in the LET. What does this mean for women's golf

19:37 - How different would the LPGA & WTA be if Billie Jean King had been a golfer & Nancy Lopez had been a tennis player

33:11 - Pay Equality: women's soccer, golf, ice skating, etc... and why is paying the men & women so important

42:57 - Brittney Griner: Is the story of her being held as a prisoner in Russia for 100+ days now getting enough attention

48:52 - Transgender Athletes: Where does she stand on the discussion and how does she see it playing out

56:37 - Learn More: Continue this discussion with Christine or reach out if you're an aspiring journalists and have questions @ ChristineBrennan.com

right in it's said okay in three to one episode two of like it is and

i am so pleased to have a woman who has no issue telling it like it

is she's educated she's smart she is talented the credentials we could go on and on

christine brendon columnist for us to day contributor for a b c c and n n

pr we could go literally i could here like tiger woods announcing your accolade but look

i admire people who have guts and people who ask the hard questions and that's certainly

what you've done throughout your career when it pertains to that what are you most proud

of

thanks so much for having me on you

at least it's great to be with you thanks so much for having me on your

podcast and gosh you know i don't i don't usually stop think or look back

now

having so much fun and

we

living the adventure of a lifetime now and i'm so lucky to be able to still

be doing this all these

it's

years into my career

dirt

just just loving it more

i

today than the day i started but i guess of

oh

course every now and then i think

okay

often i think of things in the past and and

i

things that

guess

have

it

happened

was

and i guess i would say that being the first president of the association women in

sports media

oh

way way back in a previous century

i

nineteen

did

eighty eight

ah

to nineteen ninety and starting the scholarship internship program for w s m which we

start

call awesome starting the scholarship internship program that has awarded scholarships internships and

what

monetary awards to close to two hundred women now and two of those are scholarships that

i fund in my late parents names and and i also

m

have my alma

a

northwester n i do a ton of mentaring and also have a couple of fellowships there

and so i would hope

and

just giving back and and if i am

work

a role model or

i've

can be a mentor i've done a lot of that talking to s t and so

i probably do more talking

a

to students than i do talking to athletes and that's fine with me certainly at this

stage of my career so just

you

just helping those wonderful young p well try to get a foothold get a start

i

in this adventure of lifetime

that was the

as i said and just hopefully have the career of their dreams as i've had the

career of my dreams

what

so

you talk

i think

about

that's

mentoring

probably thing

young

i protest

people

about

unfortunately i'm nowhere close to student age but you've been a mentor to me it's been

i have to say to be able to talk to you and seek your advice in

your council and your wisdom look i think any woman who's been in this career in

this business in the sports world it isn't always easy but to see somebody like you

i recently saw where you introduce s a trail blazer and you certainly are you're still

young you have a lot of time left and we hope that you continue for a

long time because i for one love reading your columns

oh

i

h

love the way that you give your opinion and mainly because it's just full of factual

education for your readers and with that being said you recently wrote a column and i

love the fact that you tackled this on saudi arabia issue the crown prince and the

billions and billions of dollars that they are now putting into sports washing relate to cover

up this horrible human rights record how bad is it

i think

at least i think it's it's terrible

tell

and certainly that calum you're referring to was the latest of many terrible

yeah

headlines just one def doesn't even begin to describe it obviously but p r nightmare

i

also doesn't begin

i

to describe it but just the absolute cluelessness of people like phil michelson and so this

particular

i

column that you're referring to greg norman

all a

where of course

then

he said we all make mistakes slugging off of course the dismemberment murder and dismemberment of

jamalkoshogi a couple of years ago by the man

who

that he's now in business with two obviously try to start this sad golf league it

i mean that one was was such shocking and awful thing

o

for greg norman

self

to say that i dare say the column basically wrote itself i wrote that that night

after coming home from an event

a

and my editor got in touch i had seen

um

the news alert on what norman said m it is just oh it's awful it's awful

i

one hopes that this whole sody thing just you know goes

what

away just blows up just disappears for whatever happens to it

i

but that that educated or at least semi smart men worldly men like greg norman and

phil michelson

world

they've lived you would assume

ye

that their eyes have been opened to the world would say these things and do these

things obviously fill several months ago he apologized

ah

but

i

and then of course disappeared and who knows what his care or and

ever

what his reputation will

just

be and how he will ever reclaim

and a

it which is terrible and awful because i actually kind of liked phil and i certainly

oh

always enjoyed seeing amy michelson i never would have a meal with him or anything like

that but just

of

as journalist talking to a golfer and and his spouse

just awful

and but

the

yeah it's it's just awful the arrogance of these

that's

men

it

the the sense of entitlement

money

um and you know

i

how much

think

money it's not enough to make millions and millions in your this case your home

whoever

country

he

if it's phil or or whoever else

yes

obviously grego

take

and

as

s made

well

millions in the united states as well

i

as of course being from australia

really

so it's

you know

it's really you know as a journalist i dive in

yeah

as a human being i shake my and obviously i'm going to stay on it as

as many of us are

m

i'm certainly not alone on this one i've been on loan on other topics maybe in

golf or one of the very few on a certain subject that a feeling we'll get

to but in this one there's

oh

so many of us and i'm i'm

yeah

very proud and happy that there are many voices being so critical of greg norman and

phil michelson and anyone else who i said it's blood money

i

pure and simple is just awful and

do

we should scream it from the roof tops its reprehensible behaviour and thankfully the game of

golf which hasn't done a great job over the years of calling out reprehensible behavior

go

in other ways racismsexism misogeny et cetera at least this in this one we're seeing it

and how about roy malcaroy i mean what

yeah

a gem he tinues to be the voice of reason such a class act i found

him to be that way on other topics as well and

yep

for him just to be that voice of reason thank goodness for him and

to

then thank goodness

yeah

for tiger woods speaking out and others who have done that so i'll stay on top

of

i have

at least

no

i

doubt

promise you

and unfortunately

and i know many of my colleagues

i think

will

as you mentioned

as well

it's going to continue to be a story that they're not going anywhere they continued invest

more in sports now it's gaming i mean literally billions and billions of dollars i always

find it interesting because i tweeted about it last week and when people make comments and

they try to compare it to china they try to compare it to other regimes and

these repressive oppressive situations i have my own thoughts on it i want your thoughts in

terms of that seems to be the number one thing that people fight back with is

why aren't you calling out china

well

well on that one i think i've got a good answer i just spent a month

and i know you're not saying that i'm not i know you're just asking the general

question kind of teeming me up so

i

i

just

can hopefully it is down the fairway i just spent a month in china of course

ah

for the covering the olympics in february and i think the authorities in china hate me

that

so and i of course i'm thrilled

by

about that

i

the russians despise me i know this because my website according to my website person is

just getting pounded by russian hackers and chinese hack hackers and other whatever they do and

you know my words bring it on um yeah in china every day i was critical

of course of

oh

the way that they handled horrible way they handled punctual the tennis player who disappeared

to

the world's

the

biggest met story ignored

did that

critical of the international impi committee just laid

i

into them quite

no

a few times thomas back not just in us at a column but c n n

an a b c as you alluded to and others p b s news hour

and it just

and m and just of course criticize china every moment i had every chance i could

uh people naturally asked so well then were

do

you censored or worried about that well no

what

because i'm credential with an olympic credential

a

and so the international limpid committee control that so there was also no dark alley to

get kidnapped from because we're no dark alleys because we were in the bubble and you

literally went from your hotel had two hotel

o

c n n hotel

service

in us to a hotel and car service or

is

or busses

ah

that were bubbleized and man press center and then the figure scanning venue or the opening

or closing ceremonies and that's

i felt

that's

sad

that's all you could do so

and i

i felt safe as could be and

dark

i feel of course completely guarded and honored have the first amendment and to have

i

the leadership of the news organizations

more of

i work for and nothing was going to stop me or others from speaking out so

anyone who says well

oh

oh that terrible christine brendon she's critical of starting arabia but she's not being critical of

china just google at folks and they'll you have steam coming

at

out of your computer and

on

my

ackhebucket

my track record is pretty good on that even going back to critic and la bron

james when he failed miserably to speak out appropriately for the protesters in hong kong protesting

i

of course for democrat in the wake of that n b a story with darrell more

nd everyone can look that one up but oh no i think i'm about as consistent

well since

as

you

the day

use the

is

golf

long

metaphor

i'm

we'll

proud

follow

of that

up with it you did hit it straight down the middle that was absolutely perfect from

from my experience in my background obviously being in the in the golf world and

uh

you know i've covered all it's been my focus the last several years has been with

golf i look at china and like i don't really i don't think that the l

p g will go there this year i think that there will be certain because of

what happened keep them out however saudi arabia is actually sponsoring golf events the government is

sponsor they're putting their money into it china isn't doing that in an our sport in

the game golf you have the blue bay l p g their sponsor by companies not

the government so it's a big difference but yes you're right and and you regularly call

out everybody which is why i pay us a today my monthly subscription to be able

to read every time you call them out up players like louis

thank

state

you oh

sure

yeah also i don't an i was gonna say don't mean to catch you off but

of course let's keep in mind the women's tennis association showing the way for everyone by

pulling out of china over the punctual you know fiasco and just the horrible way she

was so there is an example of a league tennis

i

circuit you know an association

not

just doing the right thing losing money

that

not

was

an easy

done

decision to make but the right decision

hi

and that was done by the t

i

a at the height of the punctual controversy back in what november december so it leagues

can do

actually

this

fine

there can be ethics

that

right you can actually find wonderful ethical behavior and for those who might be saying oh

it's a w t a and this you know how can the ba or the p

a

g a well it's moved the decimal point one way or the

a

other i mean r ex for sale

o money

w t a that was that's a huge amount of money

so

that could be potentially

i

lost and so percentage wise that's obviously

the

woman's tennesis does great pays the women obviously

and

better than women's golf does

you in

and

art

and that's because of billyginking fighting for it

he

versus no one fighting for it in women's golf obviously

okay

um in that terrible history of the way women have been treated in golf and so

no but but going back to this you know this is the w t a doing

that was devastating for their business and they still did it okay you're a p g

a you're up n b a

that's where

how are you going to handle this and and that's where again maybe i should say

p g a but you're

the

up you know you know phil and you're up greg norman and whoever else went surgiobaba

whoever else is apparently interested in this thing

every question

le westwood you know

i

okay they deserve every question because we've seen an example the w t a doing it

in tennis with china and literally pulling out their business and so it really does happen

and

i don't know if you're aware

i think

of this

we should

but

remember

companies

that

are starting to take an interest to recently ups announced louis ustayson and le westwood were

being dropped as long time ambassadors because of their affiliation and desire to play in the

live golf league okay you talk about women's organizations and you're right it makes a big

statement when the w t steps up and does something like that issue that i think

actually i'm surprised it hasn't been exposed more it hasn't been talked about more is the

l p g a now the l p g a doesn't have direct ties to this

sally league it doesn't have direct ties to the ram co series which is also funded

by the sad government however the l p g does have controlling interest now of the

l t and the l t has six aram co events i think christine this is

about to be a big story first of all in golf a lot of people avoid

these stories it's not being talked about i haven't heard

yeah

the l p g a commissioner address it yet and i don't think that she's a

seen it because nobody's asking i am really curious what this next phase is for the

l p g a in terms of their partnership with the l t the south arabia

events their player now wearing the sody logo what would your advice be what how do

you see this playing out for the l p g a

we

let you're certainly correct that the media coverage is nowhere near what it should be on

the lpgtour and that means coverage that doesn't mean positive or negative it means you cover

it and the chips fall

by

where they may and the story

i

pop

try

up or you do the recording and you break a story and that's what you do

um so you know those who cover the l p g a i'm sure of course

we want to see the l p g do

that's

well and succeed

that

but that's not our job description our job description is to report things and engulf both

men's and women's tours i mean encourage everyone to be journalists and not

a

on the take and not taking their free rounds of golf and

oh

that's appalling to me that that happens at the masters

yeah

and i guess other places as well and i think

yes

it does affect coverage we can i know all that

my

if you like because that's just you know again that's not my background at all and

it's not the background of journalism um and

o

so

o

i think that there is a tendency in

she

the golf world to not be as tough as journalist as we see for example in

the olympic world

uh

not even close i mean it's almost different professions

that

um

i

and it does appall me when i see that off side and again the hand outs

the free bes people on the take and then they're supposedly covering the support and so

i say that as a prelude to you know whether you're covering the

just

pa and you wanted to succeed you know of course but that doesn't mean if you're

a journalist

and

you've got to report stories

the

and i gree with you as much as the l p g is nowhere near on

the financial footing of the

it

p g a tour or any man's tour

the

um

older

you

players

know in terms of sponsorship for even even

yes

older players senior

i

players and whatever on the men's side

a

um you do you have ethics or not i'll

ali

go back to the w t a

o that

and the wa just pulling out of china and saying that's it

and

over punctuate i understand that the l p g a has a lot of things to

look at in that bottom line is important and it's been fighting for years to get

tournaments right

it

and to fill the schedule and to

she

be world wide but yeah they shouldn't be playing in

oh

saudiarabia and they shouldn't have saudyarabia as a sponsor i understand there might be people might

say i haven't done a ton of investigating on this so i am not the greatest

expert this by any means lisa but i will never ever avoid a question of yours

or anyone's

oh

and i'll give my best shot

ah

at it um

i

find other places to go and

the

and i understand i

right

understand it's

but

not necessary apples to apples right but be better than that and follow the example as

i've said now several times in the women's tennis association

that

and just don't

as

do business

up it

with bad people and you know it

do

would be interesting moving forward

we know

is the next

the

generation so

i put

you know

off

we know that your sweet spot for

we

golf

have

in people the consumers whatever probably at thirty five to seventy or

a

seventy five right in terms of those watching mostly white men right watching and buying the

products and buying more golf balls and

as

get new irons and and you know a new you know rescued club and this and

that

it

and you know golf vacations whatever right and buying the cars that they see advertised in

the financial this is they see advertised what happens when that group moves

ever

on

do

moves through

and

to the next you know wherever it's going

the

and and

i

and then

she

up behind it

funny

of course comes the

i

teenagers now and the twenty somethings the ones who are living in a world that we're

living in we're talking this

no

week after the horrific

m

shooting at the elementary school

whatever

in texas and just a week and a half ago

i

whatever whenever that was may fourteenth actually was the buffalo shooting and the tragic know horrifying

murder

a

of those wonderful people in

that

the grocery

generation

store

going

and on and on it goes well that generation is growing up and we're also we're

just seeing them have a different sense of social just that doesn't men theyre ll going

to gravitate to golf in fact many probably

this it

won't gravitate to golf because of its inherent

do oh

sexism and racism over the years and also you know whatever country

h

club et cetera et cetera we all know and by the way i love golf i

played it my whole

h

life but

a

um you know what kind of push will that be on entities like the l p

g a like

we

the w a like the

lack

n b a like the p g

every

a tour like individual golfers who want to go off and do whatever they want to

do the world is going to i think we're going to see more and more social

interaction social justice social conscience these young people have grown up with

care

covid right they've grown up with donald trump as president for

all

four years

that

the supreme

s

court league an abortion

why

throw it all in the mix and people are probably saying why is she talking about

this

that on a podcast where

cause

we're talking sports or ostensibly sports

i

because it's all in our connected folks and it's one big world

yeah

out there and that intersection between you know the world of sports and our culture is

now a twelve lane super highway might be sixteen line super highway

you

and so i think the pressure will continue to be put on on various leagues and

whomever who are doing business with in the case of the sods

i

murderers and obviously just reprehensible

you mentioned

leadership from

a couple

that

of different

from that

things

country

there so i'm trying to figure out which way i want to navigate but i want

to start here because you said something to me several months ago that i think is

m

it it made me ponder and it was one of the reasons i wanted to start

this christine i haven't told you this but it's i thought i'd get you on here

and tell you this in fact last week i had brittany line come on and she

was my first guest and i told her about what said and look i'm going to

say this and when i grew up playing golf nancy lopez was my childhood hero so

i mean no disrespect to nancy i think it's part of her culture it's the way

that she grew up you said to me can you could i imagine if billy gen

king had been a golfer nancy lopez had been a tennis player and i can't tell

you how many times i've thought thought about that the last year or so since she

said that to me so i want to turn it around to you what do you

think it would be like

the

m

love

m

he

and the important thing to say as you just said i love nancy lopez i have

known her for years as you have described i'm sure you know you know he known

her for years and i think she's lovely and consider friends you know her acquaintances and

certainly

yes

always have had a wonderful

i

conversation and time chatting with each other and i remember when

oh

she was on the cover of sports illustrated and when she won those five tournaments in

a row

you

and

woman

the story about her dad and my dad was so thrilled that this young woman was

just coming on taking the golf world by storm and this story about her dad and

the the whole of course the athelic background i mean it's a fantastic so all odo's

to nancy lopez this is not nancy lopes bashing this is

like

i get so what if so

right

so might take it as we are bashing her we are not it's just a fact

yes

that she and billy gen king are very different people

and

and um

so long

in the world of golf i understand

right

the sense of just

i

go

do

along

and you are

to get along

able

right

to go

or get along to go along whichever

we

one it is

a

when you are getting table scraps and when

a

there are clubs there are

no

locations

allowed

where people play the game quite a few

to

of them

that

that say no women are allowed and of course now

that's

in this

it

case i'm talking about any club

yeah

all male clubs that discriminate could you imagine swimming pool in this country that wouldn't allow

katie

yeah

ladeki to dive in right now sounds ridiculous right because but that's what we're talking about

there's

like

still

this

clubs

go

today

to

right that won't let a woman

the

wouldn't

mild

let nancy lopez drive up there you there's

i

one a few miles from a burning tree right um but obviously the big one of

and

course was

my

against a national and

a

so i understand the mindset people like nancy and others

certain

who've come after

fireplace

her who um there's certainly some real fire brands obviously who've come after her

she

she's not that personality but she's also came from a time when it was you really

a second class citizen as

i

a woman in

taking

golf

out

and so i

so

totally get not speaking out but that makes billy gen king even more

it

remarkable

is

because tennis

also of course

um was so of course more of a man's world the and billy gen when back

and of course we all think of bobby riggs and billy gen king which of course

no

was september twentieth nineteen seventy

early

when billy gen kame big bobby riggs a few months earlier

court

mother's day weekend that

number

same

one

year margaret court who

was

was then number one woman's

it

tennis player beat bobby riggs and lost to him that was the first of these

a

challenge matches these know bobby riggs doing his thing is the male show

as

and

well

his pig and it was very entertaining playing it up obviously as well he beat margaret

court and billy gen king has said to many people including me i've obviously interviewed her

many times and i know her pretty well she said while she knew at that point

she was going to have to take on bobby

yeah

and beat them um that's that's guts right that is that's that's courage that's fortitude that

is that is taking a whole sport on your back and saying all right i'm going

to take this guy on pressure galore and then it was five months four months and

she beat him in the astradome and you know like the whole nation was watching because

we all had three now we had three channels

the

back then and howard cosell was doing the broadcast on a b c and it was

just absolutely huge you know hall mark you know

i

the

do

first time i have ever seen a woman

i

on the stage with a man

take

in anything

later

political

oh

you know convention debate business leaders you know you you didn't see much of anything as

a high

a

school kid but

m

you now just see billy gene

m

on the stage with bobby riggs and then beat him a woman finally

and

you

there are

beat him and it's something extraordinary um and there are a lot of guys out there

maybe some will listen to this who go oh that was just pony it was an

exhibition it wasn't a big deal and i always say to them

m

well maybe to you it wasn't

h

a big deal but to me it was and and it was huge and every time

i

m

see billy i say you know what you meant to a young high school you know

was self more i guess in toledo hills toledo ohio what you meant and i just

trail off and she knows of course of course she knows so

that was

billy jean king had something in her

death

that was just extraordinary to just fight these battles and to take it on and of

course she's the

you

one

have

that

so

fought for equal pay

i

that's why the us opened tennis back in nineteen seventy three i think i've got that

right nineteen seventy three us open paid men and women equally that was the us tennis

no

association making that decision can you believe that in the nineteen seventies equal pay for men

and women in the us

did

open

that

um it wimbelten did that i think it was two thousand seven that's extraordinary um so

for me if you could see a fire brand show up

open

in the

up

world of golf

of

and say

women

open up these

kill

clubs

or

to women you're killing your sport

that

which is what they were doing which is

god

what now augustin national has totally understood and and fred ridley said as much you know

when i asked him that question at the master's about taking so long to have women

members and and you know he said we should have done it

what

sooner i mean huge huge statement of what a mistake it was so billy gen ould

have been right for the game of golf and she would have been a blessing

that

for game

up

of golf for the

i do

you know for the sex is leadership of golf to

what you used

get hit over the head

he

with a frying pan forty years earlier whatever fifty years earlier and but that didn't happen

and so i think part of it is lisa the are products of their environment so

nancy was a product

m

and is a product of

a

the environment of golf where you didn't rock the boat and billy jean also could have

chosen not to rock the boat but she of course her personality and everything

a

inside of her said i'm going to rock the boat i'm gonna gonna fight for equal

pay we're on strike until we get you know they have the great picture

and

of them holding up dollar bills as

they

now we're

didn't

professional athletes and

this is

you

a year

see the incredible money that women tend to often at the end of the year a

woman's tennis player will have made more than a male tennis

oh

player number one on the womens to our number one on the men's store or equal

almost equal and of course there's nowhere nearly like

a

that golf

ye

i think there's

i did

another huge thing that

the major

has to be mentioned

yeah

and that is that the majors

yeah

the grand slam tournaments are played in the same place for tennis of course the men

and the women are together

yeah

at of course

and

wimbledon us open you know ben french in rolling arrows and and that of course that's

i

been that way for a long long time while the men were getting the attention and

the women were getting you know that's that's great well all of a sudden here comes

billing king here comes chris evert you've

and

got great american stars they're winning tracy austin

lee

on

but

and on i gos martina avatalova her

first

story is incredible and

women

of course

are

that it comes a us citizen so for us audience the women are now taking charge

of winning and everyone's sitting watching wimbelven on breakfast at wimblvin on fourth of july weekend

oh

and so

where

it has what has that chance to grow where is of course in golf as you

well know the major tournaments for men and women are not in the same place obviously

there's

that was

the case of pinehurst a few years go

so

but that

i

wasn't

for

happening at the same time

i

and so what you had and this

ad

is kind of an inside journalism thing what you would have had well before i started

in the business you know like in the in the sixties or seventies again you know

well well before i got into the business but you would have had

it

cermogenly

then

you know male sports riders

a

i'm just of making this up but i think we can imagine this would have been

the case covering the us open

at

tennis

going

or wimbledin or whatever and the sports editor saying well go and cover billygen king or

go right about chris ever maybe before chris ever was chris ever right well that sports

writer who might have been like i don't want to cover women

right

sports he's in london right covering woman you're going to cover that right so you just

buy that proximity

or

just geography forced forced that to be covered in newspapers around the country and around the

world

a

and in golf you could easily have those same guys misogynistic guys sports writers again different

era

as

not today's guys um

i know

but you could have them saying well i'm not going to cover in fact i know

i heard it in

you

their

know

i heard them tell me this and in the nineties you know i'm not covering the

women's us open as we were standing at the men's us open right so so that

is

over

all part and parcel very long answer of this conversation though that if billy jenkin could

have crashed landed into this world i think

you

it would have probably

do

been twenty maybe

this

even thirty years ahead and it would have been the best thing to happen to golf

because as we both know now

i

golf is scrambling like crazy what's your biggest growth industry what's your on

what

tap

has

market

done gneration

women and

but

what have you done for generations you've put up a stop sign

not

saying don't come here do

a

not even consider

find

laying off go find something else and in the old days lissa they really had no

there were no other choices

the

became my dad sure his daughters as well as his son could play golf i play

a couple times a

always

year i've never i can always put myself well you know i'm not i'm not good

at all i don't practice but you know i can hit the ball and and i

know exactly what i'm doing out there tennis swimming et cetera i've always you know played

those

now

it's back in the

you

day you didn't

rate

have any choice now

on

maybe the greatest

earth

woman's

never

golfer on earth never picked up a golf club and she's playing on the u s

women's national socrat because there's so many choices

yeah

and moving forward since i'm on this you know on a role here you know what

golf you the greatest capitalists among

that's

us

the a

the the that's the leadership of golf right the stewards there the green jackets and the

stewards

o

of the game i'm talking

at

of course about men here almost exclusively they chose

do

sex ism over capitalism because of she'd

the

be

dog

selling more golf balls

dick

and clubs and clothing and rounds of golf

yes

if you had said in the the seventies yes

yet

we're going to have a gusto national is goin to have women members in the seventies

was

or eighties we're going to encourage women to play this game that would be the capitalistic

decision i'm a big capitalist and we all are i'm

yeah

sure you are and and you know i'm all for that that's america that's our country

and i want everyone to succeed and so to think about that

the

that these

lame

capitalists

door

chose not to make money they chose to slam the door on fifty percent of their

potential

obvious

participation participant

we don't watch

group right fifty

my

percent

god

of participants they said no we don't want oh my god got to be

ration

the dumbest business decision on earth and they did it willingly and they did it for

generations because of sex ism and missogeny

a

they

at

didn't

first

want women around them on the golf course

i

especially on sunday mornings or saturday mornings and look what it them now scrambling like crazy

bush

hoping hoping hoping that they can have the demographic push

in

that to to keep the sport vital moving into the now the thirties forties and fifties

in this country

i

and i think it's over i think they've already lost most of those women to marathon

half marathon palates soccer leagues valley ball leagues so many other options for those women and

those women will have disposable income the rest of their lives and would be great golfers

no

and instead yes some of them you get a few but not nowhere near the numbers

of half marathon mrathons all the other things i described and many many more so it's

a fascinatin i'm just absolutely fascine by this watched it happen it's like watching a train

wreck in slow motion

it always

how golf

amazes

is so

me

mismanaged

christine

its future

no i just yeah it's a subject that we could

so

probably

not that

talk

i have any thoughts

for

on

hours

that topic

and i always wonder who's married you mentioned burning tree i mean there are

yeah

still several all male clubs in the country who's married to somebody who is a member

at that golf course and that's part of what i talk about often or the women

don't stand up who don't fight for it and i get that for many women you

mentioned nancy lopez it was part of her upbringing part of her culture that's not the

culture now thankfully people like fred ridley i do think that he's genuinely trying to change

i know that he has two daughters i love what he said to you just the

admission of it and to say i wish that we would have i think about what

would against a national as much as i appreciate the fact that they have the female

amateurs there what could they do for the l p g tour unfortunately i don't think

it will ever happen i hate to be a nasayor when you look at and look

you recently guess this the us women sucker team and their six year battle for pay

quality you were recently on on a b c and d you talked about it and

i love what you said you said look they br in they bring in an audience

they're bringing in championships they're bringing in trophies you credited the men the young men for

their willingness to be a part of that to be a part of the change golf

is different because there aren't the ratings there isn't a tiger woods there isn't this a

couple of times a year i make the mistake of going to the to the official

earnings and i compare i don't compare one third and people always get up in arms

they think that i want equal pay like sucker again i understand the ratings differences and

there's always probably going to be the paid disparity because of that golf in terms of

earnings is kind of like the wealth gap in america it's getting bigger and bigger and

bigger that gap is and it's not really number one i mean you look at scotty

chefleri's one four times this year but if you go to the top or on the

female side jennifer cup she's made nine hundred thousand dollars which is good she's one of

major she's done well you have to go down to number one hundred on the p

g to her

oh

money list to get to one hundred

m

to get to where is at nine hundred thousand the one hundredth person has earned eight

hundred ninety six thousand dollars in this day and age of me to in this day

and age of these companies wanting to l eight women and on the golf side we

have c m we have k p m g we have a lot of companies that

are stepping up there's a wall mart northwest arkansas championship where the overall persis two point

three million dollars that's like me going into a wall mart and dropping a penny on

the ground what has to happen in terms of players speaking out executive leadership at the

l p g

hm

a to say look we're not asking for the world we're trying to close the gap

a little bit how do you do that without the rating without the revenue that the

p g tour has in your opinion

i was

of course the first thing i would do and

i

this is going to have everyone have you know running and wailing all the all the

guys who

oh

happen to be watching us here so i hope they can control their emotion

yeah

it is you know the us golf association

and

us g a is a national governing body and what we're talking about with socker of

course was the national governing body

m

how many times have we heard the commercial for the good

uh

of the game right

yes

s g a

we

m

wanted to do what

f

did

it really wanted

what

to do what soccer just did what tennis did back in the seventies as i described

earlier us tennis association and what us gymnastics does paying gymnast equally

a

what

all

us figure

art

skating has done michelle quan and male counter part male counter pat got the exact same

price money as michele kuan even though she was a far bigger draw that's an interesting

i

one isn't it for us figure skating us a swimming

i

alebdressell

first thing

kabiladecki equal prize money first thing the u s g

a

should do is pay the women equal to the men

i

at the us open

had

and i've even had former um well just to protect the identity

ship

of this particular person will say former leadership of women's golf

yes

in general

go

argued with me thirty years

a

ago against paying women equally at the u s open so i've been writing and talking

about

and

this for thirty years

i

and i said to this person i said i will just take your are on the

record comments

record

from you well just those off the record because if i report i like you and

we have a nice relationship if i report that on the record right now in us

a today you will be fired tomorrow there was one of the great leaders of the

women's game

that

arguing against equal pay now

things

that was in the

then

nineties and it was i had a big smile on my face as i said well

i

right

will put this off the record which like no journalist ever does right

we did

not looking for a pat on the back i just thought

it

well this is so ridiculous i can't even imagine you

to

said

go

it so as a human being we will

m

i will not quote you and get you fired or in trouble or whatever it was

going to be again and i'm not looking for a pat on the back it

yeah

just seemed like the right

good

responsible

for you

thing for me to do and that's one of the reasons i think i've been around

along and and have the relationships

don't

i do

like

even with people who hate me or don't like me or whatever they feel

oh

about me

so

anyway so

you want to be like

that's number one if you want to be like every other national governing body in the

united states s g a pay him equally what the argument is in that particular person

that day

one

in the nineties was telling me

this

this well it would skew our money list

is already

well then make a percentage of it go

maybe

to your money

don't

it's already the biggest

all of

prize of so prize money then maybe don't

fer

count all of it towards the money list i don't

you

know

really want

figure it out pay equal because if you really want to grow the game and that's

the reason like i mentioned figure skating a few minutes ago why did us figure skating

decide to pay the top mail skate are the same as michelle

i

quan when michelle an

oh

you're one of the rock stars of all

as

generations

a

and figure skating because i

why

was

i

told

make

by

sure

the u s figure skating leadership

point

they wanted to

it

make sure to encourage the boys to be able to continue to skate because they want

to

so

boys skate as well as girls so if you pay equally then mom and dad see

that your kid could make the

this

same money as michelle quan so this is where golf has failed miserably absolutely failed miserably

i'm sure people are just gonna just like tearing their hair out what equal pay for

the us open yes it's happening

like

at every other national governing body golf

a

is lagging behind

and

by obviously you socker just handled this and the golf should do it too and then

figure out the prize money and balance um and you guess what you're going to have

honey

mom's and dad's look at that

all

prize

down

money in that check say honey put that sacer ball down put that sofball bat down

put that volley ball down you put that cros stick down we're going to the driving

range and you will grow your game in a way that you never would before but

he don't see it this way again sexismsexism

yeah

sexisamlisa let's just say what it is um because otherwise in twenty twenty two the men

and women

i've already

who

to

run the u s g a

it should

should

be

have already thought of this and they should be leading this and mike an maybe i'll

get m call or talk to him at some point why isn't he done it and

it's because again it's kind of like nancy lopes being unable to speak up right even

if she wanted to because table screw so women get table scraps and that's okay and

golf

a

and i'm happy to just say call it what it is because i've covered so many

other sports and so fortunate to cover you know the olympics since nineteen eighty four it's

just absolute blatensexism it's awful and it should

a i

stop

love

and you're killing your game folks and i love your game i love golf i don't

hate golf i love golf as far as the then the free enterprise ide right the

which is not what we're talking about with the u s g a that's a non

profit

so

all

now

those ngbs are non profits so now the

that

l p g

is

a the p g a m

and

that

so

is business and so i am you know i would hope that more more companies would

want to get valedpromenica actually headquarter in my home town of toledo is now going to

be the presenting sponsor

oh

of the us women's

that

open that's a very big deal and that's a new thing for the u s g

a

i

so you know i think i'm hopeful i'm very much a glass half full person not

have empty i'm very optimistic about everythin and i'm hopeful over

women

the next

are

ten

running

to fifteen

on

years

at

as women are running the country as more women run for president more women in the

senate house et cetera more women coaching women you know leader in all ways running universities

more and more women in the

a line

c suite of whom we've played sports because of title line i'm hopeful that we'll see

more of that but i'm not going to tell a business what do other than

i

i would hope that you would see the incredible opportunity to appeal to women

this

obviously women have been and will continue to be the ones making the decisions in the

household whether it's single women whether it's women who are

whatever

married

it

divorced

might be

women who are widowed

out

whatever it might be i think it's you know the numbers are extraordinary about the consumer

decisions made by women and

what

more and more women are going to say hey i want to see a woman playing

golf for i want to see a woman playing sports not just a man we're seeing

that than ever before

just think

and i am really really

i

happy to see them say

i

that

don't

some of the things that the advancements were seeing i don't know that i would have

really expected them so soon and i know a lot of people

rain

are saying what so soon but we have been so ingrained with men's sports which i've

covered my whole life the vast majority

i

of sports i've covered men sports obviously n f l et cetera but we're getting there

and we're getting there pretty quickly and again it's that younger generation that i mentioned earlier

that's pushing pushing on on guns pushing on abortion issue pushing on all these other things

when agree to whatever you feel

there

i'm not making a political statement i'm sang they're

that's

there an they're goin to be talking about this and that same kind of thing that

ten year old today when she's a thirty

think

year

she's

old with a your old daughter i think she's going to wonder five year old daughter

to see nothing but women's sports and she will be making the buying

i

decisions in that in that family in twenty years from now in that little scenario that

i just came up with so so you got this companies

as one

need

so

to get with the

recently

plan here pretty

told

quickly

me

i would

and

think

they've

i

made

hope

a big

anyway

commitment to women's golf he said not only do i care equality and care about pay

equality and raising this it's also good for business and they're doing a lot of functions

and involvement with the l p g a and and making a big statement because of

it and really making a big differ it's for the tour in general okay i know

you only have a little bit of time so i want to ask you two more

questions away from golf their big stories right now and one of them i don't think

is getting enough

sure

attention and that's the writin grinder issue it's still on going where almost one hundred days

she's been in russia why is it not talked about more

i can

yeah you know lisa i think it has gotten a fair amount of attention that the

story obviously

focus

being the story briney grinder of course

i

being the focus i've talked about it quite a bit

more

i think and i think it's it's getting more attention

there

and i think

that

maybe that's maybe the good news there

what is

that i agree with

this

you

thing

when it

i

happened

didn't

i was

find

actually

out

in basing

go

and we didn't find out

i

for a couple of weeks

the

one presumes it was because the authorities the us was trying to work behind

a

the scenes to resolve it before came out right which makes perfect sense

thing

back channel

five

what have you that didn't

she

work and of course at the exact same time that that she's being

please

arrested

don't

for allegedly

no

bringing cannabis into the country we don't even to

yes

if that's true or not you know of course we have no idea

oh

we can't believe russia as far you know you know anything on any topic ever i

mean putting the awful horrors that he's unleashed

i then

crane it's just it's just you know it's it's just reprehensible

great

on every level

we

puttin you know one of the great one of the worst but evil villains

that

of any time history so but as that

yeah

is happening as he's invading ukraine this happens so you know any

the way

any hope

does

for a quick solution

he

clearly went away because now you've got russia obviously in a war against a sovereign nation

that that it started to you know to attack

um

that country and

i

so

think

so that certainly

i

didn't help um i think but

it just

but over

a

time i really do believe that the story is getting more attention i agree

o

with you it has