Welcome to Inside Sales Enablement, Season three, where we take a leap into the enablement time machine and...

> Take a look back with those who played a part in enablement history.

> Pause in the present and hit on a few modern themes

> And then shift our focus to the future and what it may bring for enablement teams.

Hello and welcome! I'm Erich Starrett. I started out as an ISE "Insider Nation" devotee of Sales Enablement Society founding father Scott, Santucci, and trailblazer Dr. Brian Lambert. I then collaborated with them to build OrchestrateSales.com, the global home for the podcast and related resources for Enablement Orchestrators and sales enablement history.

Why? Well as a sales enablement history nerd with a passion for the continued elevation of the profession. I see it as the Sales Enablement Smithsonian and, more specifically, an opportunity to serve you - the global enablement community.

Together, we will revisit the wisdom of the treasures therein as well as uncover some new ones with a series of special guests, which may even include you.

The foundation of cross-functional and enablement orchestration was established in the three founding principles signed into existence by the hundred-ish fore-founders of the SES back in Palm beach in 2016, for which this week in the studio is the seven year anniversary.

So in celebration after a year of hiatus, we're knocking the dust off the orchestrate sales.com property.

In the first episode we had Sales Enablement Society founding father Scott Santucci as our special guest, focusing on before the SES and how it almost didn't even exist.

Today, Scott rejoins me in the orchestrate sales studios, as we land alongside the a hundred-ish, fore-founders in Palm beach, back in November of 2016, where, and when the Sales Enablement Society officially began.  

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

VoiceOverGuy: 00:00:02

Welcome to the Inside Sales Enablement Podcast.

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Where has the profession been?

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Where is it now?

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And where is it heading?

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What does it mean to you?

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Your company?

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Other functions?

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The market?

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Find out here.

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The Inside Sales Enablement

Podcast starts now.

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Erich Starrett: Hello and welcome

to inside sales enablement.

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Season three, where we take a leap

into the enablement time machine

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and take a look back with those who

played a part in enablement history.

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Pause in the present and hit on a

few modern themes, and then shift

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our focus to the future and what

it may bring for enablement teams.

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Hi, I'm Erich Starrett.

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And I started out in the inside sales

enablement audience, listening to sales

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enablement society founding father

Scott, Santucci, and trailblazer Dr.

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Brian Lambert, and then collaborated with

them to build orchestrates sales.com.

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The global home for the

podcast and related resources

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for enablement orchestrators

and sales enablement history.

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Why?

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Well as a sales enablement history

nerd with a passion for the continued

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elevation of the profession.

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I see it as the sales enablement,

Smithsonian, and more specifically,

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an opportunity to serve you the

global enablement community.

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: 00:01:27

Together, we will revisit the wisdom of

the treasures therein as well as uncover

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some new ones with a series of special

guests, which may even include you.

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The foundation of cross-functional and

enablement orchestration was established

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in the three founding principles signed

into existence by the hundred-ish

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forefounders of the SES back in Palm

beach in: 2016

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the studio is the seven year anniversary.

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So in celebration after a year of

hiatus, we're knocking the dust off

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the orchestrate sales.com property.

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In the first episode we had sales

enablement society, founding father

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Scott Santucci as our special guest,

focusing on before the SES and

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how it almost didn't even exist.

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Today, Scott rejoins me here in the

orchestrate sales studios, as we land

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alongside the a hundred ish, four

founders in Palm beach, back in November

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of 2016, where, and when the sales

enablement society officially began.

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Scott.

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, but let's get in a time

machine and head to Palm Beach.

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So back to the article, thinking through

how we keep the organic nature of

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spreading whatever it is we were doing,

but also trying to find a way To have

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strength in numbers, I was inspired by

the Continental Congress the colonies

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used in 1776 that ultimately led to

one of the most unusual documents,

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the Declaration of Independence.

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We resolved to have a meeting where

we'd invite delegates representing

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all of the flavors of our community

and put it out there on LinkedIn.

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Given the emergent nature of the

role, we decided we're going to

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Build an organizational model

completely in support of our members

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experience and designed for growth.

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In other words, we're not going

to build silos and go down the

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path more chosen that's broken.

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Going back to that point in time, you

ended up landing in founding positions.

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Before I dive into those, anything

you'd like to say about the

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Continental Congress, how that landed

in that outcome, and is that what

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you envisioned from the beginning?

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Scott Santucci: Okay, so If we know

our history, our founding fathers

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made the Declaration of Independence,

then they fought a very long war, they

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won their Declaration, they won their

independence, they created this government

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under the Articles of Confederation,

and then they created a Constitution.

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design of how to organize would

be more akin to the Constitution.

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We're not there in that story.

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We're in the hey, how do we get A group of

delegates from different states together

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and convene to decide whether or not

we're going to declare independence and

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declare independence from who for what.

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So this is step 1 and all the

prerequisites before and why would

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we even do this in the 1st place?

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That's not how you do meetings.

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That's not how you set up groups,

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so if you go back, I said, okay,

I'm willing to put my political

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capital in my high paying management

consulting job with a bunch of other

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stuffy management consultants to

carve out space in this really

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stuffy thing to get 20 people there.

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Let's work backwards from that from

what that experience needs to look

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like to make that a good good event.

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Our goal was to get 20 people there.

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We're going to double down on the

social media lessons learned that

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I never would have learned if I if

Jill Rowley didn't challenge me and

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we didn't compare notes afterwards.

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I had to first figure out how

to explain this meeting to the

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management consulting people and see

whether or not we could get a room.

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what would that cost us.

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How do I prevent it from other partners

they're using it to try to pitch,

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how do we give it that distinction?

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How do we set up what the things are

and how do I help people realize that?

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Okay, we have to work in a lightweight.

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Creative way, but these are business

people that are going to be really annoyed

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if we don't, be buttoned down to, how

do we balance those particular things?

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So that got really stressful.

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But along the way we would put things

out and there were two key incidences

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that I thought were pretty unique

between . September and November.

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So people are like what's the agenda?

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It's I don't know.

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How am I supposed to

know what the agenda is?

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I don't know yet.

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You're either going to come or

you're not going to come, right?

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So he says, what does the meeting?

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And I said, I don't know, Terry.

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It's going to be this and this, and

we're going to cover this and it's

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going to be this kind of format.

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I'm going to run it just like the sales

and the ones that we did at Forrester.

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And . Okay.

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I'm in.

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Okay, cool.

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And that was from, he was

going to fly in from amsterdam.

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Think of the commitment that guy is taking

and the fact that he's doing it and he

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has to explain why he's going to do it.

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And he doesn't even have an agenda.

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Erich Starrett: I'm having empathy for

you thinking, wow, , this guy's doing this

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and I don't know what's going to happen,

but you put all the cards on the table.

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You did not overset expectations,

people trusted you and wanted

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to be a part of that experience.

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And they made the bet.

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Scott Santucci: But I think that the

thing is that it's the shared risk.

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That's important, right?

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Be aware that some of the people

here are flying in and they're taking

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some risks to anybody who was in

that 100 or are involved in that

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we're taking some degree of risk.

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, there isn't a button down approach.

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This is brand new.

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Jen Marie did a lot of

work to, organize it.

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Nicole did a lot of work to support it.

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Raul did a lot of work.

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We had a special role for Jen

Burns that I'll talk about later.

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I love her role that she had

in that founding meeting.

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We invited Gerhard see what happens

but I think where it really got a lot

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of momentum, and this is something

that , maybe you could broker this.

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Okay.

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I've begged for years for Bob Britton to

just talk about this one little issue.

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He said, Hey, I like what this is.

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It's the land of misfit

toys and it about it.

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And what that did is it validated a

lot of the things that we're doing.

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And in that moment he was just being Bob,

being designed or engineered or whatever.

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And the spike that we

had in activity was huge.

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So we went from a situation from,

worrying about whether 20 were going

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to be there to suddenly we've got 40

people who are committed . Now I'm

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having conversations annoying the

hell out of the events people at AGI.

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The room that you were going

to give us isn't big enough.

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Do I have to cap attendance?

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Then we go from were goal was 20

we get to 40, then we're at 50.

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We got to change venue again, who's

going to get who's going to feed

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these people, all these expenses and

people are getting anxious as hell.

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What kind of signage do

we need to have these?

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This is the feedback that I'm getting

on the . On the AGI side, should we

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escalate it to the management team?

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Then we get to 75.

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We had a hundred people show up

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. thE other thing too, is

that the conference..

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Some people were flying in early

that night, . Some people were in

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there for the sales enablement thing.

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And some people were, we're

here for, the AGI thing.

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And the crowd of people that

knew me from Forrester, it

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was a different vibe than the.

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Sort of a corporate vibe of

a management consulting firm.

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I'll let you imagine

those differences there.

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Shouting.

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Hey, Santucci

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so what happened is that Brian

arranged for everybody to meet

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beforehand for a breakfast beforehand.

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So people came in, with

a really great attitude.

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And how we ran that meeting was I first

gave a presentation, maybe I can find

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that that was about 20 minutes that

just went through, here's the history.

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And then we had three

positions that we took.

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There's the North star is

the VP of productivity.

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The 2nd, 1, is that we

recognize that there's a lot.

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Of flavors of it, and we

need to be inclusive of the

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flavors, not stomping them out.

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Is in order to make it work within a,

the latticework of a, of an organization,

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it's got to be set up and managed and

run like a business within a business.

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ANd I think that was by far the most

popular topic among among those groups.

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Zero debate about the definition because

since this is a about a vision and a

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North Star, there's no debate what

happens with definitions is they

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become grounds to exclude people.

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My turf.

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This is what it is.

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Absolutely.

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And when you debate that

all you do is argue.

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You don't, you don't

create consensus that way.

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So none of that was occurring.

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It was, this is a position.

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Do you agree with the

position or don't you?

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Yes or no.

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And debate it, argue it because we're

going to put it on paper and we're going

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to, we're going to take a position here

that the hundred of us are representing

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all the people who aren't there.

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So that's how that meeting worked.

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The first topic was, if we do

this, what will our mission be?

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And then had a draft.

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For people to react to, I learned from

that example that I shared with you

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about the VPs of sales on one side and

the VPs of marketing on the other side.

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Give somebody something for

people to react to rather than

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a clean white sheet of paper.

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Each table, I think there are about

eight tables there, had to come up with a

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position for each one of those different

parts, and then argue their position or

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state what their reaction was to that

position statement, and then we would

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say, okay, what about these elements do

we agree, and then whichever table had the

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best one, we sent them out in the room to

write it up, Moved on to the next topic.

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So the format was in each

one, it's like a gate.

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It was a mini agenda within an agenda.

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Hey, here's the frame of reference.

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Here's how we got here,

then here's the first topic.

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What would our charter be?

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I didn't come up with it, the 100

people in the room came up with it.

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Erich Starrett: Everyone's DNA was in it.

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was in it.

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Yeah.

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I love it.

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Scott Santucci: Yeah.

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Each table had their

like a tournament, right?

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Each table reacted to it.

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Each table talked about it.

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We all agreed.

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And then then we assigned

one table to go write it up.

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We also had people meeting outside to

say,, how would you set up chapters?

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What would that look like?

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Daniel was out there cause he already

got told he was going to be a chapter

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leader, but Jill Guardia was there.

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Carol Sustala was out there.

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If we did it, what, how would

it, how would you make it work?

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So the main topic were

these three positions.

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So the next position was,

Hey what are the flavors?

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In other words, what's the

scope of sales enablement?

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We had some discussion there we talked

about different viewpoints, how we

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in Virginia were being welcoming of

marketing people, product people,

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anybody who had a hand in driving

more sales, anybody we wanted to

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welcome as part of this discussion,

we didn't want to exclude anybody.

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We didn't want to say one group

knows more than the other.

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And the guy who runs the technology

marketing leaders group, Mike lock

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in front of everybody, one person by

himself, and he scolded everybody from

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being not inclusive of marketers enough.

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And I'm like, amen, brother.

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I agree.

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This is too heavy on sales

mechanics or whatever.

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We're never going to

build an inclusive group.

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If we don't have more tentacles

to be inclusive or even the word

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choices to make people that way.

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I love that he challenged everybody on

that and he was , 100 percent right.

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So what do we do to accommodate

these particular views?

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Is it reasonable that anybody's

going to be able to be the VP

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of sales productivity, which

is what the end state goal was.

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Are we going to be able to promote

and elevate the role if we don't

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have the ability to work among

and within an organization?

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Of the hundred people there,

I'd say 40 of them were VP

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level folks, major corporations.

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And none of them thought that's doable.

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You can't make this a function that

you wall off so well because You

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can't connect into the matrix of

how big corporations are organized.

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You have to be a fabric.

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You can't be a silo.

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We had some tough times.

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We had one guy stand up and say.

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Hey I disagree that we can

be the VP of productivity.

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If we put that out there,

I'm going to get fired.

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That's when I thought Robert

Peterson shined the most.

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He basically said, so you're just going

to basically say that all organizations

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have to be organized the way that

they're organized this way forever.

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That doesn't make sense.

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You can change your

organizational structure.

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That's in your control, right there.

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There's the value of having

an academic in the room.

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Because if somebody in a corporate

environment won't ever think

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they can talk that way, but it's

ridiculous to think that you can't

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ever change your organization because

you can, it's in your control.

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And by the way, in that moment,

Sheevaun said, I'm going to do that.

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I want to do that role.

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That's going to be my role.

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Erich Starrett: And she proved it.

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Scott Santucci: Yeah.

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She, and she's proved it right.

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She said that in that room right there.

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And another person that really was

exciting to me around that space

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and time was Chris Kingman, and

he challenged us all saying, you

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guys are a bunch of old people.

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He didn't say it this way.

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Okay.

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I'm just paraphrasing.

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Erich Starrett: You have

creative license, Scott.

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Go.

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Scott Santucci: I do get creative license.

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But clearly everybody knows

if you're listening to us,

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I'm bragging on him, right?

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Of course.

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Yes.

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But he says, Hey, you guys

are a bunch of old people.

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You're not representing the

voices of any millennials.

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I'm like, damn, you're spot on.

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He's exactly right.

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How do we create more room

to have those voices heard?

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Erich Starrett: What about were there

key players that spoke out in the

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sales enablement is a cross functional

problem and to be successful should be

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run as a business within a business?

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Scott Santucci: I talked about

Mike challenging everybody

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, you're being exclusive.

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You're not factoring in marketing.

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I very much agreed with that.

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I think after that, the

discussion about business within

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a business had so much energy.

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Each table had their own spin on it.

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And each table had their

own way of talking about it.

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That was additive.

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: 00:17:13

In group public environments,

it gets presented as one way and

304

: 00:17:16

people debate how that won't work.

305

: 00:17:20

But what happened in the room was

this is a great foundation and on,

306

: 00:17:26

on this foundation, I can change

this out or swap this in, but I

307

: 00:17:31

can still make the foundation work

308

: 00:17:33

instead of it's an answer.

309

: 00:17:35

It's an architecture.

310

: 00:17:37

And because of this architecture, this

allows me to do these kinds of things.

311

: 00:17:42

And with people with a large span

of control is really helpful.

312

: 00:17:47

So the debate wasn't debate.

313

: 00:17:50

It was, yeah, and you could do this

and we could build this on top of that.

314

: 00:17:54

And this structure has to be here

and you have to bound it this

315

: 00:17:56

way because of these reasons.

316

: 00:17:59

It's not a creative debate to let

everybody have their own answer.

317

: 00:18:05

It was because this is a architecture,

the boundaries create the things

318

: 00:18:12

to enable success to happen.

319

: 00:18:14

If we embrace the constraints of

this, it allows us to do way more.

320

: 00:18:20

If we keep tweaking it and debating

it 80 ways to Sunday it's worthless.

321

: 00:18:24

So I wouldn't say there was any one.

322

: 00:18:27

It was so collaborative.

323

: 00:18:29

If anything.

324

: 00:18:30

I had to be really mindful to

to stop the conversations and

325

: 00:18:36

say, so what do we agree on?

326

: 00:18:38

What will we publish?

327

: 00:18:40

Because we still had to write

up, the things we agreed on.

328

: 00:18:45

Then before we go, everybody

has to sign this document.

329

: 00:18:50

So we made this thing in the

back that everybody had to sign.

330

: 00:18:54

And I also had a rule.

331

: 00:18:56

It must be unanimous.

332

: 00:18:58

Oh, that's great.

333

: 00:18:59

Whatever we agree on, we have to document.

334

: 00:19:03

That's why people in the room

went and documented those things.

335

: 00:19:05

We assembled it together.

336

: 00:19:08

Then we have to read it out.

337

: 00:19:10

We have to have a unanimous agreement.

338

: 00:19:11

But before we do any of that, we

have what my favorite role was.

339

: 00:19:16

I mentioned Jen Burns.

340

: 00:19:17

Yeah.

341

: 00:19:18

Jen Burns role the entire time

wasn't really to participate.

342

: 00:19:24

It was to take notes for

people who weren't there.

343

: 00:19:28

Her job was to challenge all of us

collectively from the point of view

344

: 00:19:33

of people like her, in the room.

345

: 00:19:36

And I, I just think it's a stroke of

genius because Jen's a little bit cynical.

346

: 00:19:40

Anyway, you'd never know it meeting

her, but she is, and to give her this

347

: 00:19:45

kind of cynical role to challenge us

and be combative, and she was so great.

348

: 00:19:52

It's you guys said this and this,

what the hell does this mean?

349

: 00:19:55

And she was, she played the

role perfectly and I was like,

350

: 00:19:58

these are all great points.

351

: 00:20:00

Do we agree that we're now

just speaking our own language?

352

: 00:20:03

Let's answer her questions.

353

: 00:20:06

They're legitimate questions.

354

: 00:20:08

Let's answer them.

355

: 00:20:10

And it was great because it made

things even tighter, which facilitated

356

: 00:20:15

the, okay, let's go through.

357

: 00:20:17

Have we been thorough?

358

: 00:20:19

Did we do this?

359

: 00:20:20

Did we do that?

360

: 00:20:21

Did we do this?

361

: 00:20:22

Do we unanimously agree on these things?

362

: 00:20:25

And we got unanimous agreement.

363

: 00:20:27

Great.

364

: 00:20:28

Now what I'd like you to do is based

on that, go sign that document because

365

: 00:20:31

you guys all did it and that you're

assigning this, you're committing

366

: 00:20:35

yourselves to making this work.

367

: 00:20:37

And that was the meeting.

368

: 00:20:39

Erich Starrett: That's phenomenal.

369

: 00:20:41

I would love for the museum to have

the signed document and the Jen

370

: 00:20:47

Burns notes, the bad cop notes.

371

: 00:20:50

Scott Santucci: But we have some

pictures of one of my favorite

372

: 00:20:53

pictures is Jen's with the

microphone sort of challenging us.

373

: 00:20:57

Erich Starrett: Scott, what a neat peek

into the room where it happened literally.

374

: 00:21:02

Do you feel like they apply today?

375

: 00:21:05

Scott Santucci: We did publish, what

the rules were for the meeting and

376

: 00:21:08

people were expected to read periods.

377

: 00:21:11

So would I say.

378

: 00:21:12

That meeting format is applicable today.

379

: 00:21:16

100%.

380

: 00:21:17

Would I say giving people

pre reads and having well

381

: 00:21:20

documented rules before meetings?

382

: 00:21:23

Absolutely.

383

: 00:21:23

I think that's important.

384

: 00:21:25

And the forcing function of saying,

we're going to accomplish these things

385

: 00:21:29

and no one leaves until they're done.

386

: 00:21:32

I would say having a gated process

to follow definitely is something

387

: 00:21:39

that is is very important.

388

: 00:21:41

And then you could say, what were

the outcomes on the three positions?

389

: 00:21:43

Are the three positions still valid?

390

: 00:21:46

I think the point is just

like you would critique.

391

: 00:21:49

Okay.

392

: 00:21:50

The Declaration of Independence

says nothing about how the

393

: 00:21:53

country is going to be organized.

394

: 00:21:55

It basically just says, hey, king,

it's silly that you have power.

395

: 00:22:02

We think that power, we

think God gives us the power.

396

: 00:22:07

And we think that the, that a good

ruler is at the consent of the governed.

397

: 00:22:12

And these are the reasons

why we think you're a tyrant.

398

: 00:22:16

And because of that, we break up.

399

: 00:22:18

That's...

400

: 00:22:19

That's the gist of what the

Declaration of Independence is.

401

: 00:22:22

When those people signed it,

they were committing treason.

402

: 00:22:25

What happens to you in 1776 is

you get drawn and quartered.

403

: 00:22:30

So by signing it, they're

signing their death sentence.

404

: 00:22:32

These people came to a meeting where

thEy didn't know what to expect.

405

: 00:22:37

Some people from their time, some

people made the risk of of doing

406

: 00:22:41

it, and they signed their names to

something they had the courage . We

407

: 00:22:46

created the right environment

so that the debate could occur.

408

: 00:22:49

They argued and they allowed

the best ideas to emerge.

409

: 00:22:53

Erich Starrett: The formalized.

410

: 00:22:55

Three positions of the society.

411

: 00:22:58

Scott Santucci: This group of people in

relation to the topic of sales enablement

412

: 00:23:03

are saying these are our positions so

I would say that the sales enablement

413

: 00:23:09

society is built on those three positions.

414

: 00:23:13

Those three possessions are the

founding bedrock of what the sales

415

: 00:23:18

enablement society was built upon.

416

: 00:23:21

One, you're going to promote and elevate

the role with the end destination

417

: 00:23:26

to be the VP of sales productivity.

418

: 00:23:30

Two, there are four flavors of sales

enablement that have to do with

419

: 00:23:36

friction points between human resources

and sales, marketing and sales.

420

: 00:23:44

administration and sales

and finance and sales.

421

: 00:23:49

So these friction points exist.

422

: 00:23:52

The only way those friction points

can be resolved is if you look

423

: 00:23:56

at it through a business process

lens, not a departmental level.

424

: 00:24:01

lens

425

: 00:24:02

Position number three.

426

: 00:24:04

The only way to do that.

427

: 00:24:07

Is if you're building competencies

based on running your department

428

: 00:24:12

as a business within a business

429

: 00:24:14

said differently, what does it mean?

430

: 00:24:16

It doesn't mean sales enablement

is the head of training.

431

: 00:24:21

It doesn't mean sales enablement

only means this and it excludes

432

: 00:24:25

that sales enablement isn't defined

as a charter department and you

433

: 00:24:30

declare victory with a budget.

434

: 00:24:32

No,

435

: 00:24:33

you have to build a charter, you have to

run it as a business within a business,

436

: 00:24:37

you have to always find more ways of

adding value, you have to find more ways

437

: 00:24:41

of any more money, you have to find more

ways of satisfying your constituencies.

438

: 00:24:47

tHat's the contrast.

439

: 00:24:49

That's the bedrock of which the sales

enablement society was built upon

440

: 00:24:55

organizational structure, the concept of

an experience, all of that comes later.

441

: 00:25:02

100 people, 40 of whom were from

VP titles in huge companies.

442

: 00:25:07

60 from a variety of other subject

matter experts that you can go and trace

443

: 00:25:11

down, who those people were that sales

enablement, we take these three positions.

444

: 00:25:16

Erich Starrett: What

a great legacy, Scott.

445

: 00:25:19

And one that there's such opportunity

to still, it's still so relevant today.

446

: 00:25:26

What do you see next as the

founder and father of the society?

447

: 00:25:33

And how would you

encapsulate all of that?

448

: 00:25:36

As the walk away this is how

we can benefit from it today.

449

: 00:25:41

Scott Santucci: oKay.

450

: 00:25:42

So what I would say is.

451

: 00:25:45

I'm not really caught up in the founder

of sales enablement or anything like that.

452

: 00:25:52

What I am is focused on

solving a business problem.

453

: 00:25:58

The business problem is this companies

B2B companies spend an exorbitant

454

: 00:26:06

amount of money on sales and marketing.

455

: 00:26:08

They're not getting the return on that.

456

: 00:26:10

They focusing more and more on activities

and activities and getting further and

457

: 00:26:14

further focused away from customers.

458

: 00:26:17

The growth potential for any business

is to understand their customers.

459

: 00:26:23

Understand what their commercial

experience is and design

460

: 00:26:28

their system accordingly.

461

: 00:26:30

Given that if people were practicing,

because I've been practicing each

462

: 00:26:36

of those foundational principles,

what does productivity look like?

463

: 00:26:42

In order to have that conversation,

you have to have lots of debates with

464

: 00:26:47

operational people and finance people.

465

: 00:26:50

You can't just immediately just

walk up and say, here's a document

466

: 00:26:54

from Gartner or somebody and

says, here's what it looks like.

467

: 00:26:57

Give me stuff.

468

: 00:26:59

I believe that there are some

great metrics the building off of

469

: 00:27:03

that idea, I co created with TCB,

this concept of commercial ratio.

470

: 00:27:09

Anybody can adopt commercial ratio.

471

: 00:27:11

I

472

: 00:27:11

a hidden cost model to help

demonstrate quantifiably,

473

: 00:27:17

verifiably, and objectively what.

474

: 00:27:21

sales productivity looks like.

475

: 00:27:23

It is not subjective.

476

: 00:27:25

You can debate all you want to about

individual sales people or whatever.

477

: 00:27:29

None of that moves the needle.

478

: 00:27:32

So in terms of the bucket of what sales

productivity looks like there's been a

479

: 00:27:37

lot of great work that's done around that.

480

: 00:27:40

We can create space to have

those conversations and

481

: 00:27:42

share what those lessons are.

482

: 00:27:45

The next bucket . I think that

people have gotten so focused.

483

: 00:27:50

On defining a job and a department

and who owns what, that the idea

484

: 00:27:59

that sales is a team sport, if you

want caught revenue, that's great.

485

: 00:28:03

But revenue you have to factor in

a lot of accounting factor that in

486

: 00:28:07

that growth is a team sport is lost.

487

: 00:28:13

That most people are no, it's

about the MQL and sales won't do

488

: 00:28:17

this and marketing won't do that.

489

: 00:28:18

None of that is helpful.

490

: 00:28:20

The basic facts are, is that

what you do with your product

491

: 00:28:25

has a lot to do with sales.

492

: 00:28:27

What you do with finance and how you

measure things and how you set up your

493

: 00:28:31

organization has a lot to do with sales.

494

: 00:28:35

How you deploy your Salesforce and

how do you simplify what you're

495

: 00:28:39

doing has a lot to do with sales

496

: 00:28:42

and the role and responsibilities

that you cast and whether or not you

497

: 00:28:46

have marketing people actually in

the trenches doing things, or whether

498

: 00:28:50

they're just making stuff , on the

sidelines has a lot to do with sales

499

: 00:28:55

because, to customers, they

can sense the misalignment.

500

: 00:29:01

80 ways to Sunday sooner or later.

501

: 00:29:04

They're going to opt it, opt out if,

and they have so many other choices.

502

: 00:29:09

Then the third bucket would be running

as a business within a business.

503

: 00:29:13

That's not rocket science.

504

: 00:29:14

Somehow people take it rocket

science because they worry about

505

: 00:29:17

whether they're writing the

perfect charter statement or not.

506

: 00:29:21

Or they worry about all of these

things that don't matter and

507

: 00:29:25

they're not paying attention.

508

: 00:29:27

They're not right.

509

: 00:29:28

They're not envisioning it like

they're eight years old and setting

510

: 00:29:32

up their lemonade stand, what matters?

511

: 00:29:34

What kind of lemonade are you making?

512

: 00:29:37

Do you have two scoops of sugar in it?

513

: 00:29:38

Or do you have or do you have people

making so many different variations

514

: 00:29:42

of lemonade, you have no idea how

to keep track of your inventory?

515

: 00:29:45

Do you, do you get the

lemonade out to people on time?

516

: 00:29:49

Do you follow up and feedback with them?

517

: 00:29:51

Or do you just assume because it was

a hundred degrees out and they're

518

: 00:29:54

going, Oh, thank God for this.

519

: 00:29:55

That they, they think

your lemonade is awesome.

520

: 00:29:58

Maybe when it's 80 degrees out

and no one's there, maybe it was

521

: 00:30:03

because of other other conditions.

522

: 00:30:06

So there's all of these basic, simple

things that people just ignore that

523

: 00:30:11

if you're running your group as a

business, one of the business, you,

524

: 00:30:14

you can be not only adding more value

to the business, but you can also be

525

: 00:30:20

identifying functions that aren't adding

value to the business and, acquire them.

526

: 00:30:25

You can actually do hostile

takeovers and things like that.

527

: 00:30:28

There's so many things that you can

do if you're running your department

528

: 00:30:32

as a business with a business.

529

: 00:30:33

If you're just taking orders from

people and saying, I want to report to

530

: 00:30:37

the head of sales or I want to report

here, I want to report there because

531

: 00:30:40

they get me you put yourself at risk.

532

: 00:30:43

So I think though the wisdom and

the power of those three positions.

533

: 00:30:50

By staying constantly focused on building

out from them is a gigantic opportunity

534

: 00:30:58

to constantly doing what I observe

that's happening is a constant

535

: 00:31:02

reinvention of, name changes, or we

call it this, or we've always called

536

: 00:31:07

it that and constant disagreement.

537

: 00:31:09

You get nowhere.

538

: 00:31:10

You don't look serious to, to, to CEOs.

539

: 00:31:14

You become on the chopping

block for every CFO.

540

: 00:31:19

And I know these things because

I'm having these conversations

541

: 00:31:22

at the executive levels.

542

: 00:31:24

So I think that the opportunity really is

these are foundations to be built upon.

543

: 00:31:33

They're not just statements

out in the world that hey,

544

: 00:31:36

people aren't ordering that up.

545

: 00:31:38

That's not the way you build things.

546

: 00:31:40

In 1776, nobody thought that a group of 13

colonies were even going to win the war.

547

: 00:31:46

Let alone be the biggest

economic power in the world.

548

: 00:31:50

Erich Starrett: And the battle

continues seven years later, Scott.

549

: 00:31:53

Thank you so much for being a catalyst

for all of this and for your time today.

550

: 00:31:59

It's super meaningful to hear you,

especially on this anniversary every

551

: 00:32:04

time I speak with you, I uncover new

fascinating tidbits of enablement

552

: 00:32:09

history that inform such a huge

opportunity that still exists today.

553

: 00:32:15

Three foundational positions.

554

: 00:32:17

A gift that you and the collective

group and the collective

555

: 00:32:21

wisdom have given the world.

556

: 00:32:23

Maybe we can frame it up on

the way that you and the group.

557

: 00:32:28

Framed that first experience

around exactly that , the

558

: 00:32:32

experience that it's everything

there were seven Es of experience.

559

: 00:32:36

I believe that were the foundation

for that first global meeting.

560

: 00:32:41

That followed up about a year thereafter.

561

: 00:32:44

Would you consider that to be the

key element of that next meeting

562

: 00:32:48

as the three founding positions

were in this inaugural Congress?

563

: 00:32:54

Scott Santucci: Yeah, I think just

like the country had to figure

564

: 00:32:57

out they had to fight a war.

565

: 00:32:59

Let's not just gloss over.

566

: 00:33:01

Oh, Declaration of Independence.

567

: 00:33:03

And then there was the Constitution.

568

: 00:33:04

Along the way, a whole bunch

of people who were volunteers.

569

: 00:33:10

Somehow George Washington to keep

everybody together and keep them fighting.

570

: 00:33:15

Somebody had to provide that,

Thomas Paine gave him great things

571

: 00:33:18

of what they're fighting for.

572

: 00:33:20

And they did the impossible.

573

: 00:33:23

Then they had to figure out

how to govern themselves.

574

: 00:33:27

There was a point in time that

some of them were willing to accept

575

: 00:33:31

the king of Germany to run them.

576

: 00:33:35

They couldn't run themselves.

577

: 00:33:38

And of course that caused

people to just lose their crap.

578

: 00:33:41

That's what led to the constitution.

579

: 00:33:43

So it's part of, it's part of like

really understanding how things work.

580

: 00:33:48

And how human nature works.

581

: 00:33:50

Okay.

582

: 00:33:50

The declaration that was great.

583

: 00:33:51

It was a great event.

584

: 00:33:54

Now, what do you do there

and follow up from that?

585

: 00:33:56

What are all the battles that happened

between, that was November 16th.

586

: 00:34:01

What about the next big event?

587

: 00:34:04

It's what can this group of sales

enablement people accomplish?

588

: 00:34:08

Can they accomplish growth objectives?

589

: 00:34:11

Because that's what we set out

to do in: 2017

590

: 00:34:15

these things, let's prove this

group of people can do that.

591

: 00:34:19

So how do you set up a charter with

the whole goal of running yourself

592

: 00:34:25

like a business within a business,

embracing the constraints that were

593

: 00:34:29

told to us are really empowering, and

then setting up an organizational model

594

: 00:34:34

to achieve growth objectives that no

one would sign up for beforehand.

595

: 00:34:39

The next topic really should be an

understanding of why the charter for

596

: 00:34:46

2017 was set up the way it was set up

because I just fundamentally do not

597

: 00:34:52

believe people understand or appreciate

why the things were done the way they

598

: 00:34:56

are, how they were set up 100 percent to

practice and build upon the foundational

599

: 00:35:04

things that were set out in that meeting.

600

: 00:35:07

So I think that's way more important.

601

: 00:35:10

The principles are secondary.

602

: 00:35:13

Organizational structures are secondary.

603

: 00:35:16

The goal is what are we

trying to prove here?

604

: 00:35:18

What's our purpose?

605

: 00:35:19

What are we trying to do?

606

: 00:35:21

And we're trying to demonstrate in

front of the entire world, we're going

607

: 00:35:24

to do an experiment just like the

United States is a big experiment.

608

: 00:35:30

It's the way they talked

about it,: 1776

609

: 00:35:34

We set ourselves up as

a big experiment too.

610

: 00:35:36

Can a group of people come

together and drive a growth agenda?

611

: 00:35:42

And the answer is yes.

612

: 00:35:44

That was exceedingly successful

based on the specific stated

613

: 00:35:49

goals that were set out.

614

: 00:35:51

What was accomplished during what

period of time with no money only

615

: 00:35:55

volunteer resources and part time work,

616

: 00:35:58

Understanding those mechanics is far

more important than what the principles

617

: 00:36:03

were and everything like that.

618

: 00:36:05

Erich Starrett: Got it.

619

: 00:36:05

So would you call that body of

work, then the constitution?

620

: 00:36:10

And do you feel like you accomplished the

constitution or is that still to come?

621

: 00:36:14

Scott Santucci: I don't know.

622

: 00:36:16

Erich Starrett: Fair answer.

623

: 00:36:17

Scott Santucci: what I would say

is our founding fathers had the

624

: 00:36:21

history that there were two things

that you had to do in order to get

625

: 00:36:27

the Constitutional Convention going.

626

: 00:36:29

One, you had to figure out,

did the law exist in the first

627

: 00:36:33

place and why would you do it?

628

: 00:36:35

In other words, what is our purpose?

629

: 00:36:36

If we're going to convene,

what purpose do we have?

630

: 00:36:40

Everybody had an equal vote.

631

: 00:36:42

So how do you get agreement on what

do you want to do in the first place,

632

: 00:36:47

Step two then is what is the

construct that you put together?

633

: 00:36:50

What is the organizational structure?

634

: 00:36:53

Our founding fathers, the first

part, there was no precedent

635

: 00:36:57

in history to sort out.

636

: 00:36:59

But the latter part they used models

637

: 00:37:02

Like Madison, who had the Virginia Plan

that most of it is built on, studied a

638

: 00:37:07

lot of other, he studied the Roman model,

he was very influenced by the Florentine

639

: 00:37:13

Republic he made some corrections and some

adjustments, he talked to his buddy Thomas

640

: 00:37:18

Jefferson, who's very much anti anybody

to where they get the checks and balances.

641

: 00:37:23

And they argued vehemently to

where no one group would have

642

: 00:37:27

more power than the other.

643

: 00:37:29

Because they knew that they wouldn't be

able to get buy in from everybody else.

644

: 00:37:32

They had all that precedent.

645

: 00:37:35

We had precedent from

other things to steal from.

646

: 00:37:37

But the big issue was how do you go

from having that meeting to, okay,

647

: 00:37:43

why should I listen to you and how

do you get volunteers to do anything?

648

: 00:37:49

And then how do you model out

the exact problems that you wanna

649

: 00:37:53

exist to solve in the first place?

650

: 00:37:56

So what I would say is

there's probably two parts.

651

: 00:37:58

Part A, how do you define how do you

move from a state that isn't working

652

: 00:38:04

to a state that's workable and give

it an identity when nobody even knows

653

: 00:38:08

the vocabulary to talk about it?

654

: 00:38:10

Just like.

655

: 00:38:11

How in the world would you come

up with a constitution when

656

: 00:38:15

a constitution didn't exist?

657

: 00:38:16

And there was no basis on how to do it.

658

: 00:38:19

And you had 13 colonies acting like their

own, they were printing their own money.

659

: 00:38:23

They were all more or less

their own individual countries.

660

: 00:38:27

How do you get them to agree?

661

: 00:38:28

That's one problem.

662

: 00:38:31

The second problem then would be.

663

: 00:38:34

How do you construct it?

664

: 00:38:35

I would say those are the two biggest

missing pieces that are the most inclusive

665

: 00:38:41

to the entire sales enablement story.

666

: 00:38:44

Erich Starrett: And still being

defined and built as we speak.

667

: 00:38:48

So it sounds like the answer is, we

aren't at constitution as of yet.

668

: 00:38:53

Scott Santucci: I Would say that

the Constitution did exist in: 2017

669

: 00:38:59

I would say that post that people have

chosen to not, if you don't follow the

670

: 00:39:03

law if you don't set up the adjudication

process to evaluate things if you don't

671

: 00:39:08

put cases in front of the Supreme Court

there's the Constitution doesn't work.

672

: 00:39:13

I would say that's what's happened.

673

: 00:39:16

THere was a constitution.

674

: 00:39:19

I don't know what the name changes

and things like that, whether any

675

: 00:39:22

of those things have been changed

or whatever, or where we just go to

676

: 00:39:25

corporate bylaws and think that you

can just check checklist corporate

677

: 00:39:28

bylaws and think that's the same thing.

678

: 00:39:31

I don't know, but I do know that it's

directly related to the concept of

679

: 00:39:35

running a business within a business.

680

: 00:39:37

When you set up a business, you

don't just do checklists and say,

681

: 00:39:42

okay, we're a thriving company.

682

: 00:39:44

I would say categorically, there was

a constitution that was followed.

683

: 00:39:51

There was a power base

established that was followed.

684

: 00:39:55

It did work.

685

: 00:39:56

It worked exceptionally, exceedingly well.

686

: 00:39:59

And I would say in my observation it's

not being followed, discussed, thought of.

687

: 00:40:04

It's been ignored.

688

: 00:40:06

And I think these are the same kinds of

problems that prevent sales enablement

689

: 00:40:10

entities from thriving inside their own

companies, it's like a meta problem.

690

: 00:40:15

Erich Starrett: And it sounds to

me like a meta opportunity, Scott.

691

: 00:40:19

Scott Santucci: Correct.

692

: 00:40:20

Erich Starrett: For the society to

further solidify and regain authority.

693

: 00:40:25

Scott Santucci: Yeah.

694

: 00:40:25

Or it could just be like it

could be for just a group of

695

: 00:40:28

four people that, want to do it.

696

: 00:40:30

It, it doesn't need to be for the society.

697

: 00:40:32

Anybody can say, I want to dedicate or

learn more about the founding principles.

698

: 00:40:37

You got to go through the battles

and that's what the debate and the

699

: 00:40:41

cross referencing and the challenging

does is it turns an idea into

700

: 00:40:46

something solid, it transforms an

idea into an executable insight.

701

: 00:40:51

And then when you have stories about

how it works, then it becomes real.

702

: 00:40:56

Erich Starrett: Scott, I have an "ask."

703

: 00:40:58

I would like to raise my hand

to consolidate all of this.

704

: 00:41:03

I would love to get those

additional pieces of information

705

: 00:41:05

if you can find them.

706

: 00:41:07

My ask is the opportunity

to present those to you.

707

: 00:41:13

Let's call it the constitution and to

take a look at what would it look like

708

: 00:41:19

whether it's 4 people or 400 right to

reinvigorate what occurred 7 years ago

709

: 00:41:28

and, get a little bit more of the secret

sauce, the things that happened behind

710

: 00:41:34

the scenes, a lot of which you've shared

today, and maybe fill in some of those

711

: 00:41:39

blanks and have something that can be

offered out to the potential "we.".

712

: 00:41:49

Is that a collaboration you'd be

willing to do with me and to share that

713

: 00:41:53

history and create the opportunity?

714

: 00:41:57

Scott Santucci: Sure.

715

: 00:41:57

I would say that a good idea

might be, let's start with

716

: 00:42:01

from colonies to continent, continental

convention to declaration of independence.

717

: 00:42:07

Erich Starrett: Okay.

718

: 00:42:08

Scott Santucci: Get those things down.

719

: 00:42:10

You don't know that but you're mixing

too many things with the declaration.

720

: 00:42:14

There's so much there.

721

: 00:42:16

Saying, here are the foundational

elements, these three things.

722

: 00:42:20

Just because they're three and

because they're stated simply doesn't

723

: 00:42:24

mean they're not super powerful.

724

: 00:42:26

There's tremendous implication

in each one of those three

725

: 00:42:31

individually and then collectively.

726

: 00:42:34

Understanding the strategic

importance and impact of those

727

: 00:42:38

things is a really big deal.

728

: 00:42:40

A big opportunity.

729

: 00:42:42

Erich Starrett: You have my curiosity and

I'm excited to, I'll say unpack each of

730

: 00:42:48

the three and join you in that journey.

731

: 00:42:52

Scott Santucci: Awesome.

732

: 00:42:54

Erich Starrett: Scott, thanks so much for

your time again and happy anniversary.

733

: 00:42:58

VoiceOverGuy: Thanks for

joining us to become an insider

734

: 00:43:01

and amplify your journey.

735

: 00:43:02

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