When Will Laurenson first started Customers Who Click, there was no strategy deck or detailed launch plan — just a deep curiosity and a desire to learn from great marketers.

Five years later, his podcast has crossed 500,000 downloads, featured over 260 guests, and become a key part of his consulting business.

In this episode, we unpack the lessons behind that journey:

• Curiosity over control — how letting go of a fixed plan led to better conversations
• The value of pre-calls — why building comfort and fit before hitting record matters
• Over-prepping kills flow — what Will learned about staying present in the moment
• Good questions > smart answers — how listening properly changes everything
• Podcasting as relationship-building — the unexpected business growth that follows

If you’ve ever wondered how podcasting can do more than just share stories — how it can actually drive business results — this episode is packed with takeaways from someone who’s done it for five years straight.

🎧 Listen to Will’s show: Customers Who Click

💬 Connect with Will on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/willlaurenson

Hey there, I'm Sadaf Beynon and this is Pod Junction Podcast, the show where business leaders share how they're using podcasting to grow, connect and build their brands. Today I'm talking to Will Laurenson host of Customers Who Click podcast.

He is also a customer value optimization consultant with over 10 years experience helping brands convert more customers and keep them for longer. Will, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

My pleasure. Will I came across a recent post of yours on LinkedIn where you shared 10 lessons from five years of podcasting and you covered everything from consistency to curiosity to relationship building to listening well. It was a really great read. I really enjoyed it. And so today I'd like to unpack some of those lessons with you and explore what they show about how podcasting can drive real business growth.

How does that sound? Awesome. Okay. So when you launched Customers Who Click, your podcast, you didn't have a grand plan, just curiosity and a list of people you wanted to learn from. So looking back now, do you think that not having a fixed agenda actually helped you to create something more genuine?

Yeah, absolutely. Sounds great.

Yeah, I think so. And it is something I learned over a couple of years as well. And that's how we've got to where we are with the podcast format as it is, which is quite an open conversation. quite high level questions that I prepare. Whereas I did go through a period where we would get on an intro call, we'd have a chat about podcast and what their specialty was or what their interest was. And so I would prep some questions based on that.

And it, and it sometimes felt that we were trying to guide the conversation away that actually it didn't really feel like we wanted it to go on the, on the actual recording. so, and, and, you know, I've had more calls recently where, again, we, do the intro call, but now it's just a bit of a chat and you know, what would be interesting to talk about. And I just often find that half the stuff we say we'll talk about, we don't talk about.

Hmm.

And sometimes one thing in particular just takes over and we run the episode on that. Or other times something comes up during that episode and we go down that route instead. And I've just found that's a far more comfortable way of doing it, especially with guests who may not have done many podcasts. so kind of making this open, what do you want to talk about is much more comfortable for them rather than saying, all right, we're going to get on the episode and we're going to talk about...

your UGC ads or your A-B testing on the website or a specific conversation that I might want to have and I might find useful, but actually it doesn't lead to good conversations.

Yeah, one of the other things actually this reminds me of that you said in your post was pre-calls. So the value of having those. then do you do your pre-call? Is there certain information you're trying to get out of that potential guest? Or are you talking about what you might, yeah, just break that down for us a bit.

Yeah,

I guess there's two parts to it. Firstly, to be honest, are they qualified? Should they be on the show? And there's a few ways I look at that. Partly it's, we have a good conversation? Do we get along? The first time we're ever actually meeting each other, do we actually have a comfortable conversation? Because I think that is really important and most of the time we do.

Mm-hmm.

I can always tell when I'm thinking, okay, even on this quick intro call, we don't really seem to be getting along that well. are we going to have a good conversation on a podcast? And the second part is kind of that more business qualification, really. Are they at a brand that's big enough to be able to have a conversation that we want on our podcast? Or are they coming from that very much a...

Mm-hmm.

still getting started. We're still trying to figure things out. And so they haven't got as much to actually teach. And that's what we're looking for on the show. We're not doing founders stories and the background of the business. It's nice when that comes up and we'll have a quick chat about it if we've got a founder on, but that's not the purpose of the podcast. so I want to make sure that listeners go away with something they can think about. A new

Mm-hmm.

idea for some ads or a new way of approaching a certain type of marketing. I wasn't going away thinking, that was really interesting. Why haven't we thought of that? How do we go and do this for our brand? yeah, below a certain size, you don't really have those conversations. that's really the point. Actually, that's part one, isn't it? That kind of qualification. And part two is simply just making sure that we've actually had a chat.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

We've had a chance to talk over the questions, talk over the format and stuff, if they are someone who's a bit newer to this sort of thing. But also, so that first time we meet each other is not three minutes before I hit the record button. I think that's really, really useful and it helps those conversations when we're getting on a call and it's, hey, good to see you again, rather than, that's what you look like.

know, that's what you sound like and that sort of thing. yeah, I've always found that works really well. yeah, just sometimes those intro calls really set the tone for things. I've actually got one recording on Thursday with someone who I think is going to be a really, really good call because we got along really well. He'd gone off and he'd listened to the podcast in advance and actually really liked it. And we ended up sending each other a gift.

You

You

after

that call as well. And I normally try and do something for people. I'll try and do an introduction or make a recommendation or something as a little thank you. yeah, I ended up sending him a book recommendation because he said he was really into marketing books. And he sent me ⁓ a sample product from the brand as well. that's one of the best examples of an intro call where it's gone that well. But I always feel like that's a really good positive sign.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas if I get someone who, you know, some people sometimes feel a bit guarded and maybe they're not sure what's going on or to be honest, maybe they are expecting me to pitch them. And actually that it's not, there's not really a podcast or whatever, know, we do get that. And some people do see them kind of lighten up and relax a bit and we just start having a chat. But there are always some people who I think we're just not going to have.

Yeah.

conversation are we, it's probably going to end up as a bit of a Q &A. That's not the conversation I want. yeah, we don't move forward.

Hmm.

No, I absolutely agree. And I mean, you and I both know I don't do a pre-call for Pod Junction podcasts, mainly because I speak to podcasters who are used to being in front of the camera, being in front of the mic, used to talking. And the topic of the conversation is what they're already doing. So I usually find that quite an easy thing. But I,

agree and appreciate how important pre-calls are because I do them for other podcasts that I'm involved in. And you're right, it's about finding that fit, not just an interpersonal fit, but also the caliber of the guest for the sake of the audience. So as you said, the value that they're going to get out of it. You were talking about sometimes like you find people that are quite guarded and you're like, this is not really going to work. I have to say there has been a

Yeah, exactly.

couple of times when I have proceeded after the pre-call to actually have them on the show, a different show. And I've been actually really surprised going into the recording. was like, oh, I'm just not sure how this is gonna go, but I'll just have to try and see. But come out the other end and found it to have gone so well and had a connection with them and have carried on conversation with them since. Have you ever had those?

Yeah, absolutely. think maybe I was a little bit harsh when I explained it, but I guess on those calls, if the other person, if they do seem keen to record the episode, then normally it does actually go well. And I don't know, maybe they're just busy or maybe they were just a bit nervous because they hadn't met me, didn't know what was going on, or maybe they were expecting a pitch.

Yeah.

Hmm.

For whatever reason, that first into a call might have just not been as smooth as I would have liked, but it always seems if they are keen to book the recording, then it's probably going to go well. Whereas some other people who...

almost like they didn't even want to be there in the first place. You get a bit of a feeling for them. Sometimes to be what I'll do is if it sounds good, I'll book the podcast there and then and get it in the calendar. If I'm not so convinced, then I'll get my assistant to reach out and we'll arrange it.

There are some people who kind of just walk away from that. And it's just a bit of a, cool. And they're happy to go. There are other people who are, you know, I've even had some people say, you know, if you've got your calendar, let's just book it now. And again, it's that kind of, okay, well, you seem actually interested in it. You're almost willing to go down the, I guess, slightly more...

not exactly complex, but it feels like almost a tougher route to say, let's get the calendars out now. Let's sit here, find a time and get it booked as opposed to send me a link and we'll get it sorted, which sounds like it should be nice and easy. I feel like the people who are willing to say, let's get it booked in and almost sometimes push for it. This is all making me sound quite bad really. don't have many people pushing to have to do the call, but you get what I mean, right? There are just people who seem

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

No.

Mm. I do.

bit more interested in it and those conversations are going to go well and the people who kind of, yeah, they just don't seem as interested and a bit guarded. They're the ones who, yeah, it normally isn't as good a conversation.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

yeah, you're right. And I guess the other aspect of the pre-call as well would be to prep the guests as well. So give them enough information of, you so that the conversation can be quality conversation for both of you and your listeners.

And

yeah, and you know, as you said yourself, like with this podcast, if we're talking about my podcast, which is something I think about every day, right? So, and I, I write LinkedIn posts about it. So that's something that I'm quite comfortable to chat about. And as, as we did at the start, I said, if, you know, whatever, if we're just having a chat about podcasts, then cool. Let's, let's go. can, I can do that. Whereas, yeah, you know, even a head of marketing or head of e-commerce.

Yeah.

who are my target audience for the podcast, I do feel it's really beneficial to chat through the topics with them and what sort of conversation I want to have because a number of people do email back or message back when we do the outreach and they say, thanks for getting in touch. Is there a particular topic you want to discuss? And I just explained that it's a very open conversation. It's more about what you're interested in and what you want to talk about.

Hmm.

rather than trying to force it into specific topics that we want. Some people point out, basically recognize that we are a CRO agency and they'll say, we're not really doing much AB testing or I'm not involved in that too much. So I wouldn't be able to have that conversation. say, it doesn't matter. That doesn't have to be what we talk about. Obviously it'll be the thing that interests me most because that's what we do and that's what I do. But yeah, it's more.

Yeah.

what's interesting to them because that's where we're going to have the most interesting conversation.

Yeah, and actually what you're saying there reminds me of something else you had in the post about over prepping as well. You don't want to, you you want to keep that balance between ⁓ being prepared and also, staying present.

Yeah. Yeah. So I always give people, was it four questions? Yeah. Four questions that are the general questions that I try and ask everyone. But then it's very much about the following up, for more details or asking something related to what they've said. And yeah, again, that's what drives the best conversations because it's, I think, guess,

Hmm.

Yeah.

fact that I can have a conversation. I'm a marketer. I've done this before. I've been in-house as well. I know this stuff. And I've had all the conversations on the podcast to pick up ideas from other people as well. So I'm capable of having that discussion as well, which I find really helps. I've been a guest on some podcasts and it's basically been a Q &A. And people have just run through a list of 10 questions. It's not interesting for me as the guest.

Yeah.

can't be interesting for the host either, right? But it's not as interesting as a guest to just give that response and then not get some sort of follow-up or some sort of comment back related to it.

Hmm.

Yeah, I guess just to know if they resonated or if it landers. Yeah, it's just nice to have something.

Yeah.

It's almost like I'm sat here going, I don't know if I'm saying the right thing. ⁓ Do you agree with me? Do you disagree? I don't know. And I get the feeling you don't have a clue either. for me, there are probably other people who are happy to just do that podcast and route through the answers and stuff. For me, I get bored of that very, very quickly. yeah, don't...

Yeah.

assuming I stay professional for the episodes and stuff. I can tell that I'm rapidly losing interest and now I'm giving probably shorter, sharper answers because I'm aware it's not interesting for me.

Ha

Yeah, yeah, you just want it done and over with. Will something else you talked about in your post was consistency. And I mean, the fact that you've gone for five years, is it 260 odd episodes strong? What is it that has helped you stay consistent and keep showing up week after week, even when life or business got busy?

So, funnily enough, you mentioned consistency, but not being as consistent at the moment. We went to two episodes per week this year, and that has been tough to keep up. Really tough. And so I'm re-evaluating things for next year. We'll either go back to one a week or we will find some different types of episodes that we can do in the gaps, basically. But I think the biggest thing for me

Mm-hmm.

that's really kind of kept, probably kept it going from, you from the start really is not doing it as seasons. I think if I had done that first season and booked it as a, you know, eight episodes or whatever, I have a really strong feeling that would have, it would have ended there because, you know, it's, it's content marketing, right? It's, it's kind of a brand piece. It's, it's a bit more long-term.

Yeah.

long-term piece. And as I just started the agency, I obviously wanted sales and clients and not really that much came from the podcast. I know that people listen to it, right? I've sent cold emails or cold LinkedIn messages to people and they've said, I listened to the podcast. So I know that my audience is listening to it. And as I've discovered with my newsletter as well, my newsletter itself drives

know, a couple of calls every now and again. But when I send out an email direct to people as you know, as me from me as opposed to newsletter, that drives 10 times more calls. But because the newsletter is doing well and doing its job. So I think in the in those early days, yeah, if I'd if I'd done eight episodes and then taken a month break or whatever, I think it would have died then.

Fantastic.

I don't think I would have had the drive to keep reaching out and booking episodes in. Now it is a lot easier. We obviously get more inbound. We've got a lot of outbound stuff working as well to drive guests. We've got some referral stuff in place as well for it. So we're doing fairly well at getting guests in. But I think the fact that my schedule is every single week, I think that's good. It keeps me...

keeps me going, keeps me driven, it keeps me thinking I've got to have something ready for this week.

love that. I mean, listening to you talk and just reading more of that post, which I've had the privilege of being able to see, you know, it sounds like it was curiosity that first got you started. But it's consistency what's keeping you going. And that's great, because so many people struggle with that.

Yeah. Yeah. mean, initially it was, I need to build a network. need to build some, some relationships, partnerships and stuff. You know, I'd been, I've been in-house before, but I hadn't been like in the industry. Like, you know, no one knew me when I, when I really, know, when I started the agency. So I had to do something and I managed to reach out to some people who, who did sell into the industry. You know, there were, there were SaaS or they were agencies who I knew.

Yeah.

So they were my first guests. And then from there, I, you know, every now and again, got the odd brand or managed to get someone to invite ⁓ someone brand side onto the show. And yeah, now the outreach is far easier because I can, I can send messages to people and say, we've had this brand, this brand, this brand on, we've had this many episodes, this many downloads. You know, it's a proper podcast. This is not something, you know, it's, it's not some

Hmm.

Interesting.

Obviously saw

that you had episodes, there was a podcast, but I did think you were probably going to pitch to us. And so if that's the state of things in the industry at the moment where people are super guarded, then yeah, I've got to find a way of standing out.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. No, that's really smart. Will, something else you posted, so this is around hosting and being a better host. Something else you mentioned in your post, which I loved, was the idea that good questions matter more than smart answers. So what have you learned about the art of asking better questions?

I guess it helps that I don't script the questions. So I don't have to worry about that too much and if a question is going to flop or not. I find myself normally ask if I'm going to ask a question, it's because there's something either more to dig into or I'm interested in something I've said and I want to dig in further. And I think again, that's the key thing, that desire to just

dig deeper into their answers a little bit to really understand what was going on there, get the guests talking more. Obviously, if I'm showing that I'm interested, I'm excited, that gets the guests going a bit more as well. So I think that again, you know, just contributes to a podcast. But I think I do, I think I do actually do this a bit more naturally now that I've done so many episodes. I do try and ask questions that

I think my audience would want to know. So even if I think I know it, or if I think, well, this is obvious, I get it, that makes sense. There are a few times, not a few times per episode, but yeah, every now and again, I definitely know that, I notice that I'm asking a question that I know the answer to, but I want this person to explain because I'm

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure there'll be people out there who don't know this or don't know about it because they haven't come across it. And that's something I've just learned through basically running the agency as well. just the number of sales conversations I've had where people have not known certain things that I've thought were pretty obvious. And it's because I've done this for so many years. I've been running the agency almost six years now. I was in house before that.

Mm-hmm.

doing and I've done basically everything in marketing. So I've had that experience. And there are obviously founders out there who have none of that experience at all. They've been in a completely different industry with their career. They've had a great idea. They've got the product, they're now selling it and they don't know this stuff. And so it is helpful to have those people explain it, especially the people who are at bigger brands. they're at that stage where

Yeah.

they are going into more detail on things and they have taken it to a next level.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I agree. you know, I think sometimes having people explain things to you from their perspective can actually be quite a learning opportunity as well. Because sometimes the way they phrase things can help you see it in a different in a different view. And maybe it affects the way you would relate to that. So I think that's a really smart approach. And I think also great for digging into their understanding of the topic as well, because

what might seem inconsequential to them actually might hold a lot of weight for you and your listeners.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

asking great questions shows the caliber of a good host.

But how has listening changed the way you approach your guests and even your clients in your business?

I think everyone wants to be listened to, don't they?

Hmm.

Yeah, you can tell you're a conversation with someone who almost doesn't actually care what you have to say. They're just supposed to ask the question. And then when you finish that question, they move on to something else and you think, oh, okay, did you not want to dive into that a little bit more? yeah, I think again, it all just comes down to having... It's just all about having a natural conversation, isn't it? If you were...

you were a colleague of that person, or maybe if you met at a networking event or something and you were talking about that, most people I would have thought would ask a follow-up question or make a little comment on it or contribute something to the conversation instead of just saying, that's cool. And then changing direction into something else. yeah, think it always helps plot. I think the key thing for me is I'm also listening out for

know, are their challenges? What are the wins and things that are going on that I can talk to them further about? But also these are things my clients might be experiencing as well. And also things that just generally, you know, other brands are thinking about as well. for the purpose of the podcast, I want to dig into that because it creates more value for the people listening, but also maybe a bit selfishly, I get to use that content on LinkedIn.

Mm-hmm.

talk about it, right? It gives me content ideas to talk about as well. So yeah, it's not just, I don't do the podcast just so that I can publish the podcast and post about it on LinkedIn once a week, once or twice a week. I'm doing it because there's loads of good ideas out there. And some of these people either rarely or have never done podcasts before and they're great at it. They've got some great ideas and so

Yeah.

Yeah, it's nice to be able to help them share that.

I agree. think. ⁓

asking good questions, listening well, and responding to them helps build that connection, which then goes on to build relationships. Like you were saying earlier on about the person you were doing the pre-call with, and you ended up sending each other gifts. And so you have that relationship there.

yeah, it's, I mean, it's the best part of it, really. I think, again, like coming back to that consistency, I think if I didn't enjoy the conversations, I couldn't do them. I'm not, I'm not really the sort of person who can do stuff because I think, well, this would be beneficial for the business or for XYZ reason, but I don't like doing it.

right.

Mm-hmm.

I think if I didn't like doing it, I would find something else to do. I would find something that I actually want to put my time and effort into because I'm going to get more from that. I'm probably going to do a better job at something that I enjoy, as well as actually wanting to spend my time doing it. So yeah, I think it's just really important to just enjoy the process really.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Will something else you said in your post was that your podcast has led to clients, referrals, partnerships, basically your whole network expanded from just, you know, having these great conversations.

So when you began to see that pattern, did you lean into it more strategically or did you just kind of carry on doing what you were doing?

Yeah, I think we've changed the questions a couple of times. And now I think we've settled on questions that work in many ways. And I think one of those ways is it creates a more natural conversation. So the guests are more comfortable because they just get to talk about what they want to talk about, which I think is really important. I've been on podcasts where I've been asked questions about stuff that I...

I don't have experience in. And I get it. If you're speaking to head of e-commerce, head of marketing, you probably think they're going to have experience in quite a lot of things, but they still might not want to talk about SEO or Amazon or they might just not do it, in which case it's not of interest to them. But as an agency, if you're interviewing me,

Hmm.

ask us about CRO, ask us about our podcast, ask us about e-commerce, don't ask us about, or don't ask me about SEO, Amazon and stuff that, you know, it's clearly not related to what we do. I think, yeah, sorting those questions has made a big difference. For the, you know, when we're interviewing agencies or tech, we can use the old format a bit more. we, you know,

Yeah.

we have those intro calls, pre-calls, it is basically, what do you want to talk about? What's the hot topic that you want to discuss in paid media or SEO or whatever it is they do? that's absolutely fine, because that's what they want to talk about and it's a specific subject. But yeah, I've just found it's far easier with the brands to just say, what do you want to talk about? Let's stick with that. I think that's worked really well.

can see that. think this leads into something else you said in your post about follow ups. And actually, I think you said there's gold in the follow ups that often the best insights come after your main point or your main conversation. So what's one of those moments that's really stayed with you? Something maybe a guest said after you'd...

finished recording.

⁓ after finished recording.

Yeah.

Do you know what? can't. And that's the thing that really annoys me because I need to find a way of doing this a bit better. So when I'm on a normal call, so the pre-calls or just any call really, I have my fathom note taker in there recording the conversation. I don't have that in my podcasts. And what's quite annoying is the number of times we finish the podcast and then

Don't answer it if you can.

Mm-hmm.

We've had a bit of a follow-up conversation about something and there's been some great ideas there and it's not recorded. So I think either what I need to start doing is not stopping the recording until we're actually ready to say goodbye or stop the recording, but then immediately start it again as a second take. So I get the full recording, but then I also get a basically essentially a second recording, which is the post-call bit.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And yeah, maybe I just get into a habit of that. when I press the button again, I'll just say to the guest, look, I just, I like to record the end of these calls just in case something else pops up and, and, you know, we have some other good insights or, if there's anything, know, if anything I can do for the, you if I need to do an introduction or recommendation or something like that, just making sure that's actually recorded. And we can, we can watch the recording or take the transcript from it. So that's.

Mm.

Yeah, know there are a number of times when I've said to a guest, know, I really wish I'd been recording that so I'd had that saved. And likewise, actually, sometimes at the start, we will do a bit of a, you know, not with every guest, but every now and again, there's a bit of a, you know, are you happy with the questions? Do you want to go over anything again? And we will start to have a little bit of a chat about some of the topics and things that are going on.

And then it actually starts to quickly turn into some pretty good stuff that should be the episode. And I have to say, let's stop. Let me, let me start the actual recording and then let's, let's get it in there. think again, like that's, that's the sign of a good, like a good relationship. That's the sign we're going to have a good episode. And also I think that's, that's again, shows the value of doing the pre-calls because if we hadn't done the pre-calls that

Yeah.

little chat at the start wouldn't have happened.

and it's also, I mean, it's great for yourself as the host, but actually, if this is someone that you might eventually end up doing business with, having all those multiple touch points is such a huge asset.

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. I've been thinking about that as well, because I'm really trying to get into this habit more and not just with the podcast guests, actually with everyone of, you know, what's something I can do for you after this conversation ends and we go away, you know, is there a recommendation I can make or an introduction I can do? And that's valid for, you know, agencies I speak to, other partners, it's valid for tech, know, tech partners I speak to. Any conversation there's...

something I can do for that person. And so I do want to get a little bit better at basically reviewing the actual podcasts again for anything they said that we might be able to help with, even if it's an introduction or whatever. Because often when I ask the question, they say no, know, but partly because it's unexpected, right? you

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

know, if you're having a chat with someone and they suddenly say, ⁓ is there anything you need help with? Can I do any introductions for you or make any recommendations? You haven't got anything on your mind at that time because you weren't thinking about it. So if I can, I think it's going to be really valuable if I can pull that out of the call and say, well, you mentioned this, I know someone who can help with that. Would you like an introduction? I think that'll go down really, really well.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's really smart. I like that. Will, thank you so much for joining me. And congratulations on five incredible years of customers who click. That's really great.

Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.

You're very welcome. But before you go, if our listeners want to reach out or find out more about you, where can they go to do that?

Best place is normally LinkedIn. So it's just Will Lawrence on LinkedIn or customerswhoclick.com.

Awesome. And to those listening, thank you so much for being here. All the links Will has just mentioned can be found in the show description. Do reach out and connect with Will and go find that LinkedIn post and have a read of it. It's really good.

And if you're listening and are curious about using podcasting as a strategic tool to grow your business, build authority or connect more deeply with your audience, I hope this episode has given you fresh insight into how consistency, curiosity and relationship building and conversation can turn a podcast into a true growth engine. Thanks again for listening and bye for now.