India.Arie's "Summer" stands out as a genre-blending gem, and this week’s episode explores the song's instrumentation via the collaboration of Rascal Flatts and legendary bassist Victor Wooten. India.Arie's takes a detour from her classic R&B into a lighter, almost country sound, combining light harmonies, creative chord progressions, and orchestration with a summery, cross-genre appeal.

In the Mailbag section, we respond to insights about essential music industry terminology, offering practical advice for musicians navigating showcases, bookings, and collaborations. We emphasize that clear communication and humility are more valuable than jargon alone. This segment is packed with real-world tips for artists at any stage, making it a must-listen for those looking to strengthen their professional toolkit in the music business.

Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu819TDx0E
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/7wib8BDGImkvksc7GD42al?si=8e5510f0c2b64bc5
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/summer-feat-rascal-flatts-victor-wooten/1443496621
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B073GTX2TJ?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_mMuSSRHzJE1NhChrO0PguOK4a&trackAsin=B073GVGDWK

Other links

• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4uCOVpr4NcWT5SGWlZEnnw?si=8j8p7QwlQxmTNNFwFMvCeg
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
• Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/57132299c0b9470dbd67fcab0b41db79sune?ref=dm_sh_LYPlw2RWiTdf09DUmvLHjqGve

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?

Trist: Sometimes there are artists who you kind of expect a certain

Trist: thing from them.

Trist: And then there's an occasional song that they do that's just a

Trist: little bit off the beaten path from their normal thing.

Trist: That is what we're doing this week.

Trist: It's a song called "Summer" by the artist India.Arie.

Elaine: Ooh.

Trist: Smack dab in the middle of

Trist: summer here, as we record this

Trist: episode.

Trist: So I thought about this one.

Trist: I love this track.

Trist: And, hopefully you'll like it too.

Elaine: All right, so before we get into it, can you remind us how we're

Elaine: listening to music as a part of The Musician's Loupe?

Trist: We here at The Loupe really encourage you to find the best

Trist: listening situation you can.

Trist: If you need to get out the good headphones, listen in the nice

Trist: quiet space, go for a drive if that's where the good stereo is.

Trist: Lots of great ways to just

Trist: listen to music in an easy way,

Trist: but it's not always the absolute

Trist: best.

Trist: So treat yourself to a better listening situation if you can.

Trist: And as always, we appreciate that you're listening to us

Trist: regardless, but if you have a moment to improve it, go for it.

Elaine: Feel free to pause the episode, go and listen to those songs and

Elaine: we'll be right back.

Elaine: And we are back.

Elaine: Oh, wow.

Elaine: That was so delightful.

Elaine: I will say that that is not what I expected.

Elaine: I have only heard of India.Arie

Elaine: before. I've

Elaine: actually not heard her music. And

Elaine: so I don't know. Is

Elaine: this representative? Her

Elaine: voice is great.

Trist: Yeah. She is pretty versatile,

Trist: does a lot of things, but at

Trist: least the things I know from her

Trist: are a little bit more

Trist: traditional kind of contemporary

Trist: R&B tunes.

Trist: so just the lighter, I think it's very summery sounding.

Trist: I always think of summer when I just hear the vibe of the

Trist: acoustic guitars, the chords, the background vocals.

Trist: It's kind of sparse.

Trist: It's not an overly produced thing that maybe some of her

Trist: tracks can be.

Trist: I do like that it is different from her normal stuff.

Elaine: I see.

Elaine: I love the quality of her voice.

Elaine: It was very husky and yet pure.

Elaine: And then there were these harmonies that you were talking

Elaine: about that came in.

Elaine: I actually almost didn't hear

Elaine: the third harmony for the first

Elaine: time I listened to it, and it

Elaine: wasn't until I was really

Elaine: listening to where the harmonies

Elaine: came in that I was like, oh,

Elaine: wait, there's another voice in

Elaine: there.

Elaine: And one of the things I was

Elaine: listening to was, oh, sometimes

Elaine: there was a harmony on the

Elaine: right.

Elaine: Sometimes there was a harmony on the left, because there was this

Elaine: usage of stereo in the recording that I thought was, oh, okay,

Elaine: I'm now in the midst of space and I can hear these voices

Elaine: coming in where the lead was coming in from the center.

Elaine: And then I had the harmonies

Elaine: coming in and right and left

Elaine: that gave me the sense of, oh,

Elaine: okay, there's actually multiple

Elaine: people here.

Trist: Very cool.

Trist: And those background vocals also

Trist: being from country band artists,

Trist: Rascal Flatts.

Trist: The main lead singer, and I feel like both the other guys are

Trist: there very sparsely in places if you're really listening for it,

Trist: but primarily I hear Gary LeVox, the lead vocalist of that band,

Trist: I feel like I'm hearing him mostly with her.

Trist: And it's a perfect sound for the song.

Elaine: It is.

Elaine: And I was actually really

Elaine: surprised because I was like,

Elaine: Rascal Flatts?

Elaine: And I thought about it.

Elaine: I'm like, eh, that actually makes sense, from a feel

Elaine: perspective, because it does have a little bit of a country

Elaine: feel to it, I'd say.

Elaine: And

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: the instrumentation was very

Elaine: similar to what I've heard from

Elaine: them before.

Trist: Sure.

Elaine: And so yeah, but I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Elaine: Rascal Flatts with India.Arie

Elaine: like, huh, this is a crossover

Elaine: that I didn't know we needed.

Elaine: And

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: so it was surprising from that perspective.

Elaine: One of the other things that I

Elaine: listened to and that really

Elaine: delighted me was the chord

Elaine: progression, because

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: it wasn't typical country.

Elaine: It wasn't typical even pop, because you had all of these

Elaine: different really creative changes in key and tone and I was

Elaine: like, oh, now we're back in the original key. Oh,

Elaine: now we're in this other key. And

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: it didn't sound very forced, but it was repetitive.

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: Right.

Elaine: So it was

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: one of those things that I was really interested in hearing and

Elaine: listening to again.

Trist: The changes are great.

Trist: I think you described it well, they're different, but not

Trist: difficult to listen to.

Trist: They're not trying to be weird, they're just kind of of quirky

Trist: and delightful, I think.

Trist: I really enjoy the chord progression of this tune.

Elaine: Can you talk a little bit more about the orchestration, because

Elaine: you had talked a little bit about that at the very beginning

Elaine: of why you chose this song.

Elaine: But there's

Trist: Yeah,

Elaine: a little bit more in there too, right?

Trist: Well of course, it's like acoustic instruments.

Trist: There's like some acoustic guitar.

Trist: There's some fiddles, mandolin, kind of bluegrassy.

Trist: Again, a little bit more of a texture of like what a Rascal

Trist: Flatts tune might have.

Trist: It almost feels like it could be

Trist: on their album and she's a

Trist: guest.

Trist: Other than the fact that she's

Trist: carrying the whole lead, and she

Trist: wrote it, and it's her song, and

Trist: it's on her album, but it feels

Trist: like it fits a lot more of their

Trist: music even than hers, in some

Trist: ways.

Trist: And also kind of cool that the

Trist: upright bass that you hear on it

Trist: is Victor Wooten from Bela Fleck

Trist: and the Flecktones, which is a

Trist: candidate definitely for an

Trist: episode.

Trist: I've thought about having them so frequently that I had to try

Trist: to remember if I've chosen a song of theirs or not yet.

Trist: But we'll have to wait for that.

Elaine: I definitely saw his name on this and was like, why does he

Elaine: sound so familiar?

Elaine: And then I looked him up and I was like, oh, that's why.

Elaine: Because

Trist: And it's.

Trist: And

Elaine: he's

Trist: it's not to.

Elaine: an OG.

Trist: And he's not too frequently playing upright.

Trist: He's incredibly well known for his antics on the electric bass,

Trist: and he's incredible at that.

Trist: But occasionally you will see a session or something that he's

Trist: on that he's playing upright.

Elaine: And I think it was very understated, his role as a

Elaine: bassist because my perspective of bassists is that they play

Elaine: such a supporting role and such a foundational role in music

Elaine: that a lot of the bassists that I know just have no ego when it

Elaine: comes to what they're playing.

Elaine: They don't have to be the most awesome, like, I'm going to do

Elaine: all the things in all of the music, but he does play what is

Elaine: appropriate for the song.

Elaine: And so I think in this one, I definitely heard a lot more of

Elaine: that where it was like, okay, he is supporting the voice, that

Elaine: he's supporting the music, he's supporting all of this stuff,

Elaine: but it is not front and center.

Elaine: Like it is not a Victor Wooten song with,

Trist: Well. Yeah.

Elaine: you know, that happens to have some vocals on it or happens

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: to have some other acoustic instruments on it.

Trist: Well, when he's going into a

Trist: session like that, what does the

Trist: track require?

Trist: I'm hired to come and do this thing.

Trist: Oh they wanted to play an upright.

Trist: Here's the feel.

Trist: Do this.

Trist: They're probably not asking him to do anything that makes sure

Trist: it's got your flavor on it or feels like you in your playing.

Trist: The fact that it's upright already makes it not necessarily

Trist: sound like him.

Trist: You might only notice the tone of it being Victor over someone

Trist: else If he's playing electric.

Trist: And that's just because you get used to the whole set of

Trist: electronics that he runs through normally, like, oh, 90% of

Trist: things he records sounds like this because he uses that pedal

Trist: and that thing and that compressor and all the stuff

Trist: that he runs it through.

Trist: So people who are tuned in to that, even if he's not being

Trist: showy, you might hear him say, oh, it kind of sounds like the

Trist: way that Victor Wooten plays.

Trist: Session players like that, even if they're a big name, most of

Trist: the really good ones know, well, I'm here to do this role.

Trist: Unless I'm told, hey, play that

Trist: thing that you kind of do on

Trist: that one song that everybody

Trist: knows.

Trist: Unless you're asked to do

Trist: something like that, you're

Trist: really there just to lay down a

Trist: track and support whatever the

Trist: quote unquote important thing

Trist: is.

Trist: So yeah, foundationally, his

Trist: whole role would be not to be

Trist: any different, just play what's

Trist: needed.

Elaine: I appreciate that, especially as someone who is a supporting

Elaine: instrumentalist, and my entire job is just to be a support as

Elaine: opposed to standing out.

Trist: Sure.

Elaine: So there were certain things that I heard in the song that

Elaine: I'd love to talk about.

Elaine: And these are what I would label as quote unquote moments.

Trist: Okay.

Elaine: So for instance, there was a break, I think probably two

Elaine: thirds of the way the song where all of the instruments cut out.

Elaine: And then there were just a

Elaine: couple of voices in there

Elaine: singing.

Elaine: Yeah.

Elaine: And earlier on, there were a couple of moments where you'd

Elaine: have a little bit of a pop of a violin or a little twiddle on a

Elaine: single string on your

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: guitar or a mandolin, whatever it was.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: Um, can you talk a little bit

Elaine: about what kinds of things that

Elaine: you heard in addition to that,

Elaine: that were maybe highlights of an

Elaine: instrument or something that

Elaine: just kept our interest or kept

Elaine: your interest?

Trist: Especially on a song like this, that is simple.

Trist: No one's really stepping out and doing anything.

Trist: So that's the key is little subtle parts like, oh, I have

Trist: this little thing.

Trist: So sometimes they might not have even played it out.

Trist: Maybe in the mix, someone just brings it up.

Trist: Or they just thought, oh, this is a little moment.

Trist: I have this little line and it comes in between the vocal, very

Trist: natural musical instinct would be to, oh, I'm gonna amplify

Trist: this little arpeggio that I play, since it's in between

Trist: these two lines of vocals.

Trist: Very natural, usually, for the

Trist: accompanying musicians to do

Trist: that.

Trist: I think a moment, that sticks

Trist: out to me is the end of the

Trist: bridge.

Trist: I love it because it just stops.

Trist: It's kind of moving.

Trist: And when I'm hearing the bridge go, I feel like there's like two

Trist: more lines and it's just like, *sings* in the spring, *sings some more*

Trist: we're back. Like, just

Trist: kidding. We're not

Trist: going to do a big full thing. I like

Trist: that moment of that it felt like it was going to go on. And then

Trist: it just kind of stops abruptly. I really

Trist: like that.

Elaine: And I think that there is that stop moment as well at the end

Elaine: of the song, because I feel like the song doesn't end on the one.

Elaine: And so it feels like it just

Elaine: keeps on going, which I guess

Elaine: given the fact that it's talking

Elaine: about seasons, really is

Elaine: apropos.

Elaine: I wrote down that it ends on half a thought because I just

Elaine: felt like the musical thought wasn't finished at that point in

Elaine: time, but it just kind of ended on this five.

Elaine: And it was like, okay, if you just repeated the entire song,

Elaine: it probably would still work, which I guess in the context of

Elaine: seasons makes sense.

Trist: Yeah, I'm remembering that part.

Trist: I remember the first time I was like, oh, I guess they're done

Trist: with the bridge.

Trist: They didn't need any more.

Elaine: That was the end of the song.

Elaine: And so I'm like, okay, I guess you're done.

Trist: Oh yeah.

Trist: At the end as well.

Trist: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Elaine: Well, let's switch it up and

Elaine: talk a little bit about the

Elaine: lyrics because you said that

Elaine: India.Arie

Elaine: had actually written this song. I'd

Elaine: love to hear what you think about the lyrics

Trist: Um.

Elaine: first, because I know that I tend to go first a lot.

Trist: I don't even recall exactly.

Trist: I know this is a co-write, so there are, I think, two or three

Trist: writers listed as songwriters.

Trist: And I don't necessarily know who did the lyrics, but, as is kind

Trist: of usual, I think the reason, why you tend to talk about them

Trist: a lot is you pay a lot more attention to them than I do.

Trist: I don't absolutely ignore them, but I'm so caught up on this

Trist: song in the vibe and everything we've talked about so far.

Trist: I'm actually looking for you to enlighten me to what you found

Trist: in the lyrics.

Elaine: So I was definitely looking at this from, you know, the context

Elaine: of the seasons because obviously she mentions all four seasons in

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: order in

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: this particular song.

Elaine: But I was trying to figure out,

Elaine: and I don't think that I had a

Elaine: really clear answer to this as

Elaine: to how many characters there

Elaine: were.

Elaine: Because there was, first of all,

Elaine: the anthropomorphizing of the

Elaine: season.

Elaine: So, one for each.

Elaine: She talks directly to each one of the seasons.

Elaine: She says

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: goodbye, Summer.

Elaine: She talks about hello, Winter.

Elaine: And there's some description

Elaine: about other characters in this,

Elaine: but then she talks about this

Elaine: other person.

Elaine: And I

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: can't tell whether this person is actually the same.

Elaine: Like, oh, I love summer and the summer, we're saying goodbye or

Elaine: whether it's actually like a physical person, because at the

Elaine: end of the song, she talks about a kiss from my old friend.

Elaine: Been such a long time.

Elaine: Tell me how you've been.

Elaine: So I think that one way to read it is she's anthropomorphizing

Elaine: Summer as her friend.

Elaine: And she loves being with this friend.

Elaine: And then this friend goes away.

Trist: Totally.

Elaine: And so as

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: the friend comes back, it's like, hey, welcome back again.

Elaine: And so that march of the season, it could be that level.

Elaine: And as I was running through the alternatives here, one of the

Elaine: things that I thought of was like, well, maybe it's actually

Elaine: a person that she only sees in the summer and that's why she

Elaine: likes summer so much.

Trist: Mm!

Elaine: She's saying, hello, Summer.

Elaine: Look, here's my lover in the

Elaine: first time and maybe things have

Elaine: gone south or maybe there's just

Elaine: distance and this person comes

Elaine: back next summer College friend,

Elaine: whatever.

Elaine: And it's like, oh, now we're old

Elaine: friends as opposed to having

Elaine: this intimate relationship the

Elaine: first time.

Elaine: That might be a little bit more of a stretch, but I was just

Elaine: thinking through some of the alternative interpretations here

Elaine: because it talks about "we."

Elaine: I think I might be talking myself into this a little bit,

Elaine: but maybe it's just as simple as, hey, we were holding hands

Elaine: in June because we are friends or because I love you so much.

Elaine: And it's just a very clear,

Elaine: light hearted relationship to

Elaine: the seasons.

Elaine: A couple of other things that I

Elaine: thought were really interesting

Elaine: was the description that she had

Elaine: around each one of the seasons,

Elaine: where she talked about summer to

Elaine: the autumn wind, to frozen in

Elaine: this place, which she refers to

Elaine: multiple times, whether it's

Elaine: anticipating winter or frozen in

Elaine: this place, exiting winter as

Elaine: well.

Elaine: And during winter, watching the swirling snow.

Elaine: There are these different

Elaine: experiences that she paints as a

Elaine: part of experiencing each one of

Elaine: these seasons that isn't as good

Elaine: as summer.

Elaine: So that leads back into the summer after going through all

Elaine: of the seasons.

Elaine: So I just thought it was cute from that perspective.

Elaine: And maybe

Trist: Hm!

Elaine: having talked myself around it a little bit, I would go back to

Elaine: my original thing, which is like, it's not that deep.

Elaine: It's just a description of the

Elaine: seasons and how much she really

Elaine: likes summer

Trist: Right.

Elaine: as

Trist: See?

Trist: And

Elaine: opposed

Trist: that's

Elaine: to

Trist: why.

Elaine: something yet.

Trist: And that's why I ask you what you think about them.

Trist: Because I wouldn't have thought any of those things.

Elaine: The reason I got really confused is because she says at the end

Elaine: of "hello, summer," at the end of the song, "So lonely now."

Elaine: I'm like, why does she say she's so lonely now?

Elaine: Summer's back.

Elaine: Isn't Summer her friend?

Elaine: And that's, I think, where I was confused.

Elaine: So yeah, I don't have an answer

Elaine: for that, but I at least thought

Elaine: through it.

Trist: Awesome. That's great.

Trist: That's cool.

Elaine: Anything else you want to say before we wrap up the section?

Trist: No, I mean, that's it.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So with that, we are moving on to our next segment, which is?

Trist: Mailbag.

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: The mailbag.

Elaine: And if you would like to to get

Elaine: ahold of us, you can email us at

Elaine: [email protected],

Elaine: that is L o u p e. Or you can

Elaine: message us on either Instagram

Elaine: or Threads at

Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.

Trist: Please use that to let us know your thoughts about the song

Trist: this week, or maybe correct us or add some information that

Trist: maybe you know about that we did not include in the episode.

Elaine: So this week's mailbag is from Michelle Young, also known as

Elaine: @michelle.in.flow on Threads.

Elaine: And she writes in May of 2026, "Dear musical artists, it has

Elaine: come to my attention that many of you do not know certain

Elaine: industry standard terms.

Elaine: Here are a few that will be helpful if you're trying to book

Elaine: shows and industry showcases."

Elaine: And over the next couple of threads she actually talks about

Elaine: a number of them, such as draw, like what's your draw?

Elaine: What's your input list?

Elaine: What's your stage plot, what's your rider, etc. And so I am

Elaine: really curious, what types of industry terms do you think

Elaine: people need to know as they're getting into the music industry?

Trist: I would say what's more important than the terms are the

Trist: things that the terms describe, if that makes sense.

Trist: For example, I'm extrapolating a

Trist: little bit, but I remember, for

Trist: me and several of my friends our

Trist: whole life from music school,

Trist: what I learned, I would hear

Trist: someone talk about, oh, there's

Trist: this song that I heard on the

Trist: radio.

Trist: I have this recording of a song.

Trist: If someone asks you to have that

Trist: music be written down on paper

Trist: for them, that would be just a

Trist: "transcription."

Trist: Some people call it a "lift."

Trist: When I moved to Los Angeles, I overheard a couple friends of

Trist: mine who had just moved, and they talked about the fact that

Trist: in Los Angeles they would often hear that called a "take down"

Trist: and they were joking about, "Yeah, when I moved, I had this

Trist: gal that asked me if I would do some take downs of her songs,

Trist: and I thought she wanted me to make the keys lower."

Trist: So

Elaine: That's

Trist: that's

Elaine: amazing.

Trist: a, that's an instance where, just knowing that that was the

Trist: term for doing a transcription, doing a lift, like writing a

Trist: chart for somebody, there's the music, but then someone wants to

Trist: read a sheet of music.

Trist: Will you transcribe it for me, do a transcription.

Trist: There's lots of different terms that, maybe when you moved to

Trist: New York, there's a different term that more people use.

Trist: So sometimes there are terms that just differ by the type of

Trist: music you're in or the geographical area you live in.

Trist: Maybe you go to Australia and

Trist: someone that does the same thing

Trist: calls it something else, and

Trist: with their awesome accent, but

Trist: it's more important to have that

Trist: skill of being able to do the

Trist: thing.

Trist: So if you move to LA and you

Trist: want to do that kind of work,

Trist: but you're not good at doing the

Trist: actual work, well, that's the

Trist: problem.

Trist: Not understanding that "take down" means what it means isn't

Trist: really a problem.

Trist: It's like a funny thing you can

Trist: chuckle about and you talk it

Trist: through, be strong enough to be

Trist: like, "Okay.

Trist: I have to admit, you keep saying

Trist: this word 'take down.' When I

Trist: hear that, I hear that you want

Trist: me to transpose something into a

Trist: lower key."

Trist: And then they'll probably just shrug, "Oh no, no, no, no, I

Trist: mean, I just have a recording and I want you to write down."

Trist: "Oh, okay.

Trist: That's what you mean."

Trist: Right?

Trist: Sometimes it's just negotiating,

Trist: learning, "Oh, that's what that

Trist: term means."

Trist: So more importantly is to have that skill, if that's a thing

Trist: that you want to do.

Trist: This person is presenting, there are certain things at a showcase

Trist: that you will want to do.

Trist: You'll want to have those certain chunks of information.

Trist: And maybe you've always called it one thing and someone calls

Trist: it something else.

Trist: It's not important to always know exactly the term.

Trist: It's more important to just have

Trist: your ducks in a row, have your

Trist: stuff together, have promotion

Trist: for them.

Trist: Here's a list of all the places we've played.

Trist: Here's our input list.

Trist: Here's how many people we usually take on stage.

Trist: Here's how much our shows usually are.

Trist: This is how much it costs if you do this.

Trist: All that stuff.

Trist: So having those things are more

Trist: important than the terms of

Trist: them.

Elaine: That's fair to say.

Elaine: And one of the things that she put as a caveat at the end of

Elaine: this thread was that, she's worked in tour management,

Elaine: booking, PR, and consulting.

Elaine: And so I think a lot of this comes from musicians that are

Elaine: just starting out, not understanding a typical type of

Elaine: lingo that is used pretty standardly across stages.

Elaine: And

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: I will say that to your point, there are a lot of things that I

Elaine: would say in certain contexts that don't even make sense.

Elaine: Like some of the things that I learned from other a cappella

Elaine: artists back when I was in my 20s, when I went to play

Elaine: primarily with instrumentalists or people who had worked in

Elaine: jazz, that was a completely different set of words.

Elaine: I'm like, oh, where did these words come from?

Elaine: I guess I understand, but like,

Elaine: whoa, that was not what I

Elaine: expected.

Elaine: And

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: then again, other people who have played more R&B, they will

Elaine: come in with specific ways of talking about things that I

Elaine: think are different than what I was used to, and having a

Elaine: standard set of language and knowing how to translate between

Elaine: them in your head is important, and also knowing when to stop

Elaine: and ask, like you

Trist: Yes.

Elaine: were saying and

Trist: Yeah, that's

Elaine: saying,

Trist: the key.

Elaine: Oh, this is what I'm thinking when you say these words.

Elaine: Is that what you mean?

Trist: That's the biggest thing.

Trist: Just being strong enough to not,

Trist: "Wait, they keep saying that

Trist: term and I'm not sure," just to

Trist: be strong enough to be like,

Trist: wait, listen, I just have to say

Trist: this is weird, but when you say

Trist: it that way, I don't understand,

Trist: I've never heard it put that

Trist: way.

Trist: So maybe it's because of where

Trist: I'm from or, you know, making

Trist: light of it, figuring out the

Trist: way that you deal with such a

Trist: situation.

Trist: Plus, generally whoever you're asking is going to be thrilled

Trist: that you didn't just let it go by not knowing the information.

Trist: They'd much rather have you stop them and find out what it is

Trist: you're asking than just let it go because you feel too small to

Trist: get the description of the term, what they mean.

Elaine: I think a lot of times ego gets

Elaine: in the way where you're like, I

Elaine: should know

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: this thing.

Elaine: You know,

Trist: Right,

Elaine: I've been in this industry for such a long

Trist: right.

Elaine: time.

Trist: They're gonna think something of

Trist: me if I don't know what they're

Trist: saying.

Elaine: Exactly. And I would say the

Elaine: corporate version of this is

Elaine: acronyms.

Elaine: I

Trist: Mm.

Elaine: work at a company that has a lot of acronyms.

Elaine: And so we actually have a

Elaine: website internal to my company

Elaine: that is just a list of acronyms

Elaine: and what they mean, because it

Elaine: is so crazy here at this

Elaine: company.

Elaine: That

Trist: MM.

Elaine: being said, one of the things

Elaine: that we encourage people to do

Elaine: when they're new is just to ask,

Elaine: and say, we're not going to

Elaine: assume that you know anything

Elaine: and it's not going to be any

Elaine: ding on you if you ask the

Elaine: question.

Elaine: So please do ask the question.

Elaine: And I think it's a very similar kind of situation where you have

Elaine: to put aside your ego to make sure that communication is

Elaine: clear, because that's much more important when it comes to your

Elaine: playing in someone else's venue, or you're playing with another

Elaine: group that you haven't played with before, or you're working

Elaine: with a new PR person, or you're working with someone else, like

Elaine: you don't necessarily have to go in like, oh, I'm a hot shot.

Elaine: Really going in with that sense

Elaine: of humility of, okay, let's work

Elaine: together.

Elaine: This is the communication that it's going to take to be able to

Elaine: get our thing done and be okay with just taking the hit.

Elaine: If you feel like it's a hit.

Trist: Indeed.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: Well, is there anything else that you want to say about this?

Elaine: Any other terms that you think we should know?

Trist: None off the top of my head.

Trist: That was the first one that I

Trist: thought of when you brought up

Trist: this topic.

Trist: So we're

Elaine: All

Trist: good.

Elaine: right.

Elaine: So with that, we're going to wrap up this episode.

Elaine: But before we do, we want to encourage you to share an

Elaine: episode with a friend.

Elaine: We know that you all are music

Elaine: lovers, and if you listen this

Elaine: long through this episode, we

Elaine: know that you absolutely love

Elaine: music.

Elaine: And we also know that you know

Elaine: other music lovers, so please do

Elaine: share an episode, this one or

Elaine: one of the other ones from this

Elaine: season or last season with a

Elaine: friend.

Trist: And also, maybe you don't want to decide for them what they

Trist: might be interested in.

Trist: And we do have playlists, so there is playlists available of

Trist: the entire first season.

Trist: Please feel free to share that.

Trist: Let your friends see the variety of things we talk about.

Trist: If something strikes them and they want to check out an

Trist: episode where we ramble on about a particular song, great.

Trist: If not, you're sharing a pretty eclectic playlist.

Trist: I like to think it's a pretty good drive time playlist.

Trist: There's a lot of variety on it.

Elaine: So with that, thank you so much for joining us this week and we

Elaine: will see you next week.

Trist: See you soon.

Elaine: Ready?

Trist: I'm going to do this all over again.

Elaine: can I, can I say that?

Elaine: No, that one's too depressing