This podcast episode delves into the profound interplay between meditation, yoga, and holistic health, featuring the esteemed yoga instructor and Ayurvedic practitioner, Maisie Agassam. We explore the origins of her journey into holistic practices, which began in her formative years, leading her to the renowned Sivananda Yoga Farm. Throughout our discourse, we address the common experience of loneliness that some individuals may encounter post-meditation, emphasizing the importance of balanced practice and community engagement. Moreover, Maisie elucidates the essential principles of Ayurveda, highlighting its invaluable role in promoting physical and mental well-being. The conversation culminates in a reflection on the significance of embracing traditional practices while navigating modern interpretations of yoga and mindfulness.

Takeaways:

• The podcast emphasizes the importance of honest conversations regarding mental health and mindfulness.
• Maisie Agassam's journey into yoga and meditation began during her high school years, driven by a quest for deeper understanding.
• Meditation can lead to feelings of loneliness if not practiced in balance; community and guidance are essential.
• Participants in meditation practices may experience emotional challenges, indicating the need for a supportive teacher.
• Yoga and Ayurveda are intertwined, both serving to promote overall health and the pursuit of moksha.
• The podcast advocates for a holistic approach to well-being, integrating Ayurveda with meditation and yoga practices.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Mind Garden
• Sivananda Yoga Farm
• Ayurvedic

Hey, guys, welcome back to busy free Mind Podcast, a space where we open up honest conversation about mental health, mindfulness and everyday balance.

Today we are going to record in a beautiful, peaceful, surrounded by nature and good energy place, which is called Mind Garden in Folsom, California.

My guest is Maisie Agassam, a wonderful yoga teacher and massage therapist who specializes in Ayurvedic healing.

Maisie has spent years studying with the Shivananda Yoga Farm, and she brings a beautiful blend of yoga, Ayurveda and holy holistic wisdom into her classes and treatments here.

And I'm so grateful to have her with us today.

And it's going to be a really inspiring and grounding conversation.

Let's do it.

Amazing.

How did you come into this field, like meditation?

What inspired you or what attracted you to come into this space?

It starts in high school for me.

I just wasn't doing very well in high school.

And I always had this vision, like, I need like a wizard in a castle to tell me all the secrets of the universe because I just wasn't happy with what I was being offered.

And so actually in my early 20s, I was lucky enough somebody had just mentioned the Sivananda Yoga Farm.

And I was like, I think I have to go there.

And I went there and Swamisita Ramananda was teaching a dance meditation retreat.

And so I would hear her lectures and the evening meditation and satsang, and I was like, this is exactly what I've been wanting to learn my whole life.

So I found my wizard and my castle there, and I went back and I studied more.

I went to my teacher's training course, advanced teachers training course there, and then would continue to go back.

And then once I had a kid, I brought my kid with me and just, you know, there's so much to learn.

And so I just keep on learning.

I just love it so much.

So, Maisie, why do some people feel lonely or disconnected with the world after meditation?

Feel calm.

I feel peace when you feel lonely.

What's that?

Yeah, that's a good question.

You know, when we practice meditation, we go away from everything and everybody.

We go into a dark room, we close our eyes, we're in the dark.

You know, our route is different.

We're maybe not going to every party anymore.

And then you're left alone with your thoughts.

And the thought is the past are coming up and you're cringing and maybe thoughts of the future are there and you're worried or anxious or maybe there's some emotional trauma that you haven't fully digested yet.

So you know, when you have a really good meditation practice, it shouldn't feel like that at all.

So I think it's important to have a teacher to teach you so that you have a balanced practice.

You know, and especially if you have some time to get away and go on a retreat, then you're in a community of like minded people.

You guys are practicing together.

When you practice in a group, it actually helps your meditation because there's much more energy.

And then it could be that you're practicing meditation too much and you have to go serve your community and to selfless service.

Get involved in a little bit.

You know, there's this idea that we have to like go be away from everything in order to practice.

And that's not true at all.

Hopefully you'll have a good teacher that will teach you the four paths of yoga.

Karma yoga, which is selfless service.

Bhakti yoga, which is surrender.

You have more connection to God.

Is the third one.

Rasha yoga.

Thank you.

And Diana yoga.

You know, it's a more full experience.

Yeah, but aren't you missing the fun in the world?

Yeah, I mean there's this idea too that okay, if you go practice meditation, then you're just boring.

There's no, no fun anymore, no excitement.

And that's not the case for me anyways.

You know, when you practice meditation, first you're building your concentration and you're building a lot of mental strength.

Strength.

And so you have a lot of energy.

When your mind is focused on something, you become really happy.

And then, you know, all your daily routines become a little bit more energized.

And then when you have a good meditation practice, you feel connected, more connected to the world and so you're able to meet people at a different level.

You feel happy for no reason.

There's more laughter in your life.

And maybe you're just, maybe there is a little bit of, you know, you're changing your schedule.

You're not going to do the same things you used to do that you thought were fun.

You're enjoying more simpler things in life, which is good.

And you know, when we practice meditation, we're purifying and we're getting more and more veils are getting lifted.

Right.

So we get closer to our Anamaya kosha.

And actually you're chasing that feeling.

You know, you're like, how much yoga can I do this week?

So then I could go sit in the park and just feel blissful and not want to leave.

You know, when you have that feeling, it's like you always want to go back to it.

And so everything becomes more joyous.

And, you know, you can feel the breeze on your skin and it gives you a massage and you just don't want to leave.

Or you sit in a park and all the city noises become synchronized and you feel unity and connected, or, you know, you have spiritual experiences at a baseball game.

So I would say that it actually adds to life and it helps you live more.

So when we do meditation, one thing we want to get is calm mind, that's for sure.

But some people do meditation to get enlightened.

We hear this word often.

What is enlightenment?

And have you ever seen a person.

Who had enlightened before?

Yeah, that's a good question.

So the yogis have a word for enlightenment called moksha or liberation, and they actually have a map to get there.

If you want to go to Mosha, you follow the guidelines in the map.

Just like if you're going to go climb Mount Everest, you want to get to the top.

So you're going to go hiking, practicing your strength training.

You're going to talk to a professional and know what shoes you should buy, what's the weather like, and then what are the pitfalls or, you know, dangers to watch out for so that you can have a successful journey to the top of the mountain.

So the yogis have the guidelines in Mount Called To Eat, Glimpse of Raja Yoga.

So it's yamas niyamas, which is, you know, moral compass.

So you're.

You're telling the truth.

You're not stealing, no violence.

It's not to tell you, like, if you do those things, you're a sinner or you're bad or you're going to hell.

It's just there to ensure your success and to help you.

And then niyamas is observances, right?

It's a contentment, self study, surrender.

And then you have asana, which is the study pose.

So it's allowing you to have easy meditation practice where you could sit for hours in meditation.

Your spine is strengthened, your joints are lubricated, and it helps slow your thoughts down as well when you practice meditation or asana more often, which helps in meditation, right?

And then we have pranayama, which is the fourth one.

And then you're connecting to the source of your battery pack in the.

In the solar plexus.

And it's purifying the nadis, which is important if you're going to attain higher levels of consciousness.

And then what's kapala?

Withdraw the senses.

So when you are in the world, you're experiencing the world through our senses.

And we're so used to doing that.

You know, when you tell a little kid it's time for bed, they cry and don't want to go.

Right.

It's time for a bath.

You don't want to go from dry to wet, from awake to sleep, but once you get in the bath, they don't want to leave the bath.

They're having so much fun.

So it's a training of going inward that there's a whole inner world that we can experience.

And then after Prasvahara's dayana, which is concentration, so you're building your mental strength.

The mind tends to scatter and think about all different kinds of things.

But when you can bring it to one pointed focus, you're developing mental strength.

And then, you know, it'll take a lot of practice.

So you bring your thoughts back to the one point and focus.

And then they go and you have to bring it back.

And then meditation naturally happens.

It's like a state of consciousness.

And then after that, it's samadhi, final stage.

It's not final yet.

Then moksha is the final stage.

Right.

Okay.

And then so meditation happens, and then eventually samadhi, which, you know, the yogis say is indescribable experience of bliss and joy.

It's our true state.

And it's when samadhi happens, then moksha can happen, which is the merging of the superconscious individual state of consciousness with the cosmic consciousness.

And then you can.

There's two kinds, right?

There's the jivang mukti, which is attained in this life, and then the.

Which is attained after death.

So that's what enlightenment is.

Right.

And that's why meditation helps me get there.

But it's not just meditation, right?

Yeah.

And I think.

I think you could maybe see somebody on the street who looks like a homeless person, and you would never know that maybe they have a notion of bliss inside of them.

So you never know who you know.

I've been studying with my teachers for 20 years, and they've been practicing for way more than that.

And, you know, I would say that there's.

It's different when you're with them.

They seem to have abundant energy, you know, and someone can just like, intuitive.

Just a limitless, intuitive knowledge and empathy that I've never experienced with anybody else.

We have definitely a higher level of consciousness.

Maisy.

There are many types of yoga.

Very recently there is like puppy yoga, cat yoga.

And beer yoga.

So what is your opinion on those type of yoga?

Do you think those take away the traditional root of yoga essence from it?

Absolutely, yeah.

Have you ever done yoga?

No.

The concept itself is little weird for me because to me yoga and meditation goes hand in hand and it's the alignment of body, mind and breath.

I'm not a professional, but this is what I feel.

I don't know how they get that alignment with beer or with poppy and.

Yeah, I think it's very far from the roots.

I think it's.

I feel lucky to have the Sivananda yoga lineage at the ashrams.

It's from.

The teachings are from disciple to student passed down like that since ancient time.

That's very important.

You know, it stays true to the text.

It does water down at all.

You know the sutra, the famous sutra from Patanjali, Hatha, Yoga prativika.

It's yoga chitta vrita and the radhaha which is, you know what you're saying, it's.

Yoga is the cessation of the thought waves.

I think it's loosely translated.

So if you're entertaining a dog or drinking beer, it's not possible.

And so.

And we live very busy lives.

So if you get a chance to be on the mat, it's time for you to go inward a rest deeply.

It's a heel.

Beautifully said.

Does yoga really help in body weight loss?

Yeah.

You know, there's a joke going around.

My teacher's training course called the hardest asana is getting up from the table asana because you know, we like to eat food and it's good, it nurtures us.

But you know, a lot of times we, we eat emotionally and so I think yoga helps heal our emotions and so then therefore we're not eating our emotions so much.

I think it gives us discipline, you know, so that we have the discipline what's healthy for us and what's not.

And then there are, you know, some asanas like standing forward bend.

That helps like reduce excess fat and things like that.

Okay, so it does help in baby.

Yes, I, I believe it.

It is.

It's a good, a absolutely perfect.

So there are many poses of yoga.

Is there any right or wrong way to do yoga?

Do you have to be in that alignment to do the pos?

It's like perfection.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't, I don't know if you're not perfect at yoga, you can sit next to me.

Cuz I am not perfect either, you know.

And I think in my mind, I think like oh, that looks really, really.

It feels really good.

I'm going to go to class and do that and I can't do it, you know, because we're not flexible enough or we haven't practiced enough.

But if you're doing it the best you can, you're going to get a lot of benefit and then every time you do it, you're going to get better and better at it.

Yeah, my bestial levels are so awesome.

Even that's hard for people.

They want to, they want to get up and move.

So what is your suggestion for three yoga poses for beginners?

I would say like if you want to practice just two or three poses, that sitting forward bend is really nice, stretches so much of your body and you know, every time you do it you can reach your toes more and more and then cobra is really nice and you're stretching your spine forward and backwards and that may be the spinal twist.

So now you're turning your spine, right?

Yeah.

What is your idea about Surya maskar?

Sun salutations.

Yeah, sun salutations.

This is important to warm up.

It warms up every muscle group in your body.

So it's important to do that so you don't hurt yourself.

Do we have to do.

Is there any repetition that you have to do or one set of sun citation is enough?

Yeah, I usually teach six.

So it's 12, right?

Yeah.

Usually a good amount, right?

Yeah.

As you said, warm up.

I'm asking to be how to do reps or just one full cycle of citation is enough.

Just one left and right side.

It's okay.

So how do Ayurveda meditation and yoga characterism.

Yeah.

So they're the same family, right?

Yeah.

I all have something in common which is to help you be happy, healthy and eventually the same moksha.

So I think that they offer each other a lot.

So you know, for example, they teach you how, they teach you maya.

What?

Maya is illusion.

Illusion?

Yeah.

They teach you Thomas, Rajas and Saba.

This is what we're dealing with here.

So then that way you can over comment a little bit if you are seeing some.

Maybe you're in your room and it's 10am and you're still under the covers and all your curtains are drawn and you have dirty food all over the table and you're depressed and you don't want to see anybody that is considered like temostic.

Right.

Tamas is inertia, dullness, easiness, ignorance.

Right.

And then maybe another person is waking up and you know, jumping out of bed.

They have a whole list of things they need to do.

They're identified with the outcome.

They're excited, they're passionate, they're moving all over the place.

So many thoughts going on, multitasking, right?

And then if we bring those people into yoga class, then yoga class is going to either uplift or calm down those energies.

And hopefully, if you have a good class to bring to Sattva, right, which is contentment, purity, harmony, happiness.

And so they work together like that.

If you learn about what it is, you have a better chance of dealing with it.

And similarly, maybe your knee hurts, you can't do asana the way you want.

So then you go slowly.

A doctor, I invite a doctor.

They tell you what foods to avoid or what give you some herbs or some oil massage and class.

So, you know, they're very helpful with each other.

So does Automate a cure diseases?

I would say, you know, if you're going through a Western doctor and you're having some disease that you're dealing with, it's very helpful.

It's a very much an aid to help you get through that and then to recover as well.

It's also a very good preventative medicine.

But I would never underestimate the power of it, you know, And I agree that they say in Sattva is health.

You can obtain health in Sattva.

Swami Vishnu Devananda writes in his book Meditations and Mantras that modern science shows that we can control cell, single cell in our body with our mind, and that we can control groups of cells with our mind, and that a positive thought uplifts and rejuvenates the cell, and negative thinking contaminates it.

And even Swami Sivananda, in his book Blissful, says that meditation is a great tonic and it will save on your doctor bills.

He states that asana tones the internal organs.

Asana brings oxygen to the blood, it vitalizes the endocrine system, the thyroid glands, strengthens the spine and the brain centers, and then fills the whole body.

And he states all sorts of disease.

You know, he was a Western doctor, actually, and I think your interview with Dr. Manas, I saw that the other day.

It's wonderful.

And I think he does a really great job of explaining that.

Yes, he did.

Yeah, he gave a beautiful lecture.

It's like, I don't have to ask any question at all.

He's in a flow.

He was very clear, and it was a beautiful session.

Yeah.

So you work with him?

Yeah, I worked with him at the Shivananda Yoga Farm.

He used to Know that?

Yeah, he.

So there's retreats that we offer there, our way of retreat, rejuvenation retreats.

So you can go and get Abhyanga Ayurveda massage treatments and then you hear lectures.

Like Dr. Manas was giving lectures and seeing clients and I was doing the treatments and you know, my son was living there at the time.

And I would say, hey, Dr. Amanes is giving a lecture at 12.

Don't miss it.

Excellent.

And then the lecture.

So he's answering questions we always had.

So I love doing massages.

I love Shia, so Thai massages.

And these days massage centers also offer shirodhara and abhyanga.

Right.

So what is Ayurvedic massages really do?

And is it a lifestyle or a treatment?

Yeah, great question.

Okay, so Ayurveda massage.

You know, the ancients have discovered that there's a healing properties in warm oil massage.

And so they tell you to do it three times a week from childbirth to old age.

But you know, abhyanga, it's Ayurveda massage and it utilizes herbalized oil.

It's warm and it's a full body massage that moves with the lymphatic system and.

And it actually penetrates the seven layers of tissue.

So it's going into the blood, the blood plasma, the bone, bone marrow, reproductive fluids.

And it's connecting with the toxins there and loosening the toxins in the body for removal.

So it helps the body with the lymphatic prosthetic and the circulation process with detoxifying.

You know, because every day we have, you know, pollution and weird foods we're eating or digesting experiences.

And so it just helps aid the body.

And then it aids the body in creating hormones and it aids in the endocrine system.

It removes.

So you know, especially for vata dosha, it's going to nourish the tissue, remove arthritis and any stiffness in the body.

It helps aid in relaxation and the digestion.

You know, so so many numerous more benefits than that.

And you know, when people leave the treatment room, they're usually glowing.

They feel a sense of groundedness they haven't felt in a long time.

So it's an overall health benefit.

You know, I think that it's both a lifestyle and a treatment.

I think there's a lot of judgment involved too.

Like people will be like, well, she's Ayurveda and I don't do that, so I'm judged.

But it's really just there to support you.

It's the science of life.

Which is amazing.

You know, I think everybody should have an Ayurveda practitioner.

Just like when you're 40, you just get a mammogram or every woman has an obgyn.

And I think everybody should have an Ayurveda practitioner.

You should learn what your constitution is and what your imbalance is, you know, because like if you are having a lot of vata and your vata imbalance and you're drinking cold beverages or eating a lot of dried fruits or salads and then, you know, you're traveling a lot and then you suddenly just feel so much anxiety.

And so you go to the doctor and you get some anxiety medicine, right?

And so it's just treating the symptom.

It's not showing you what's the root cause.

Right?

So if you have a practitioner tell you, like, hey, I'm going to switch your cold water to warm water, you're going to have sweet potatoes and cooked green.

No more caffeine.

Drink tulsi.

You know, there's little things that you can change in your life and then all of a sudden you don't feel that anxiety anymore.

You know, maybe somebody has like pitta.

Extreme pitta.

And they're eating like drinking coffee and whiskey and all the heating foods and they're just having so much indigestion and they just steep pills to cover it up.

But, you know, there's things you can do to help remove some of that pit as you don't experience that.

And I think it's just beneficial if you can learn how to deal with it.

And you know, we're all going through so much in our life.

You know, we're traveling a lot, we have ups and downs in life or we're going through breakups or changes, moocs, losing a job.

And so it's important to have these remedies to help get through these things so that we can live healthy life.

Beautiful.

Thank you so much, Raisi.

It is.

It's very happy to see that a person from non Indian rules take the Ayurveda very seriously and following in life and giving a lecture to others.

I really feel so proud of you.

You are such an inspiration.

Thank you so much.

What a beautiful session with Maisie.

Some conversations leave a mark on the heart and this one did.

I'm so proud and amazed by how she has embraced an Indian rooted, holistic approach and shared it so beautifully.

Funny how it feels like it.

It should be the other way around, but it truly makes me happy.