Sasha Gupta of Cheeky Zebra, designs and sells fun and cheeky greeting cards for real life.
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Today on the podcast I'm talking to Sasha Gupta of Cheeky Zebra. Sasha designs and sells fun and cheeky greeting cards for real life. It was such a fun conversation. Sasha shares why she quit law to start selling cards, how she creates them, despite having very little design experience, and her varied experiences of wholesaling her cards. I absolutely love how open Sasha is. She also talks a lot about her family and the role that they play in her business.
Listen in to hear Sasha share:
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Welcome to the, Bring Your Product Ideas To Life podcast, practical
Vicki Weinberg:advice, and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products.
Vicki Weinberg:Here's your host Vicki Weinberg.
Vicki Weinberg:Today, I'm talking to Sasha Gupta from Cheeky Zebra.
Vicki Weinberg:It was such a fun conversation.
Vicki Weinberg:Sasha shares why she quit law to start selling cards, how she
Vicki Weinberg:creates them, despite having very little design experience and her
Vicki Weinberg:varied, um, sometimes quite amusing experiences of wholesaling her cards.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, she talks about how she was doing that initially.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, what's changed and you know, now she's doing by her own
Vicki Weinberg:admission really, really well.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, and I think you'll be really interested to hear about her journey.
Vicki Weinberg:I absolutely love how open Sasha is.
Vicki Weinberg:She also talks a lot about her family and the role that they play in her business.
Vicki Weinberg:I think you'll really love this conversation.
Vicki Weinberg:And I'd now like to introduce you to Sasha.
Vicki Weinberg:So hi, Sasha.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much for being here.
Sasha Gupta:Thank you for having me.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, I'm so excited to talk to you.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, can we please start by you giving an introduction to yourself,
Vicki Weinberg:your business and what you sell.
Sasha Gupta:Yes.
Sasha Gupta:Hi so I'm Sasha.
Sasha Gupta:Our business is called at Cheeky Zebra.
Sasha Gupta:I say our business it is pretty much my business, but it's
Sasha Gupta:become like a family business.
Sasha Gupta:And by that, I mean, my nan helps me pack cards for free.
Sasha Gupta:So we sell fun and cheeky greeting cards for real life
Vicki Weinberg:perfect.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And we'll talk a little bit more, a bit later about the role your family plays
Vicki Weinberg:because I follow your Instagram story.
Vicki Weinberg:So I know your Nan is a huge part of your business.
Vicki Weinberg:Well, we definitely, definitely we'll talk about that.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, but let's start right at the beginning, Sasha, and talk about how
Vicki Weinberg:and why you started Cheeky Zebra.
Vicki Weinberg:Cause I know that I did see that you quit law to get started.
Vicki Weinberg:So I'm just really fascinated in the backstory if you don't mind sharing.
Sasha Gupta:No, of course.
Sasha Gupta:It's funny you say that literally every time I get into a taxi, so
Sasha Gupta:I'm Indian for anyone listening.
Sasha Gupta:And literally every time I get into a taxi, I normally
Sasha Gupta:have an Indian Taxi driver.
Sasha Gupta:And the first thing they say is like, what do you do?
Sasha Gupta:And I'll be like, oh, I've got a greeting card business.
Sasha Gupta:And they'll be like, oh cool.
Sasha Gupta:And then we'll get talking.
Sasha Gupta:And they'll end up telling me about their kid and be like,
Sasha Gupta:so what did you do at uni?
Sasha Gupta:And I'm like, oh, I did law.
Sasha Gupta:And then they'll be like what have you done with it?
Sasha Gupta:So, yeah, I, um, I studied law at uni and then I went on to do
Sasha Gupta:some corporate jobs in London, and then I actually started doing law.
Sasha Gupta:I came back home and I did law.
Sasha Gupta:Uh, I think I worked at a law firm for a couple of years.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and I started doing Cheeky Zebra at the start on the side because.
Sasha Gupta:You know, when you just know something's not for you.
Sasha Gupta:And I just always wanted to do something more creative.
Sasha Gupta:And like, when I was younger, I'd always, wanted my own business?
Sasha Gupta:I remember I used to tell everyone I was going to have a fish and chips shop.
Sasha Gupta:I was so proud of myself that I was going to do fish and chips.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and then I actually, the truth is I saw a Facebook ad for
Sasha Gupta:another card company and they were doing like funny greeting cards.
Sasha Gupta:And I literally just remember thinking, oh, I can do that.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and then that was literally it like, um, I think.
Sasha Gupta:I had also gone through a break at the time.
Sasha Gupta:So I just decided that I was going to start doing breakup cards.
Sasha Gupta:My first little range was like a bunch of break up cards.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and so I did this also while I was doing law, um, on the side.
Sasha Gupta:And then eventually I decided like, I can't do this anymore.
Sasha Gupta:So I quit law and I gave myself a year to give it a really good shot.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and now it's four years later, I think.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, wow.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, I think that's right.
Sasha Gupta:You know, your brain's like trying to do the math in your head, but yes,
Sasha Gupta:I fingers crossed it's been alright.
Vicki Weinberg:So how did you teach yourself to design and print cards?
Vicki Weinberg:Because I know that you do them all yourself, um, and
Vicki Weinberg:I can't make it out Sasha.
Vicki Weinberg:Do you hand draw them or do you draw them online?
Vicki Weinberg:Um, how, how do you do it and how did you learn how to do that?
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, that's a really good question.
Sasha Gupta:So, um, I taught my, I say I taught myself how to use Photoshop, but I find
Sasha Gupta:that anybody who could properly use Photoshop and sees me play around with
Sasha Gupta:it, finds it really triggering because I'm playing not doing it properly.
Sasha Gupta:Um, but I used to, when I was actually in law or any corporate
Sasha Gupta:job I've had, I used to, whenever I was on the phone, I'd open up paint.
Sasha Gupta:You know, one, um, and I would just draw like endless pictures.
Sasha Gupta:Like I'll be on a really serious call and I'd just be like,
Sasha Gupta:kinda in rainbows and cakes.
Sasha Gupta:So like, um, I've always enjoyed kind of drawing the stuff.
Sasha Gupta:So what I do at the moment is a lot of my cards you would notice
Sasha Gupta:are kind of text-based, that's purely because of I'm not a graphic
Sasha Gupta:designer, but, um, and if there are illustrations, there'll be really simple.
Sasha Gupta:And I what I tend to I used to just draw them on a sketch pad,
Sasha Gupta:take a picture and scan it into Photoshop and then color it in.
Sasha Gupta:Um, but then now sometimes I'll buy images.
Sasha Gupta:And then what I've also done recently, because I wanted
Sasha Gupta:it to do cards with people.
Sasha Gupta:And I can't do people.
Sasha Gupta:And then I found like this way on Photoshop, where you can kind
Sasha Gupta:of take an image and then you can kind of distort it and like make
Sasha Gupta:it more of an illustration style.
Sasha Gupta:And then I can like go over it a bit and change it a little bit.
Sasha Gupta:So yeah, I've managed to kind of get around.
Sasha Gupta:That way, but I definitely wouldn't say that I'm a graphic designer by any means.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, but that's like clever that you found that way to do it.
Vicki Weinberg:And I also love the reference to paint because that's so like 19, I dunno, 2000.
Sasha Gupta:I feel like kids now won't know what paint is.
Vicki Weinberg:No, I don't think they will either, but I really
Vicki Weinberg:appreciated that reference because I used to love paint as well.
Vicki Weinberg:Wow.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, so that's really cool.
Vicki Weinberg:Okay.
Vicki Weinberg:So you had this design, so how did you learn how to like, cause I know
Vicki Weinberg:you do your own printing don't you youdon't like outsource your printing.
Sasha Gupta:So that was a massive learning curve.
Sasha Gupta:Um, so when we first started our cards, like when I say first started,
Sasha Gupta:I mean, like I'd sell them to like people I knew and I got a piece of
Sasha Gupta:A4 card and I just fold it in half.
Sasha Gupta:I didn't realize that you shouldn't be folding card in half yourself.
Sasha Gupta:That crease line is a mess.
Sasha Gupta:I'd like, I don't know if anyone's ever tried this, but
Sasha Gupta:you won't get a pretty crease.
Sasha Gupta:So I, um, I then learned like, oh, I need precreased cardstock okay.
Sasha Gupta:That was fine.
Sasha Gupta:And then it was.
Sasha Gupta:A nightmare, trying to figure out what printer.
Sasha Gupta:Um, so I just did loads and loads of research, um, and
Sasha Gupta:just loads of trial and error.
Sasha Gupta:Like for a period, we had like textured card and that would print awfully,
Sasha Gupta:or it was too thin or it was too.
Sasha Gupta:So I think it took me about six months and a lot of wasted money because every
Sasha Gupta:time I thought I found the right stock.
Sasha Gupta:I did this really stupid thing where I was like, that's the right one.
Sasha Gupta:I should bulk buy it.
Sasha Gupta:And it's like, well, no idiot.
Sasha Gupta:You should test it, but you spend all this money on stock.
Sasha Gupta:Um, so yeah, it was just a lot of trial and error and we
Sasha Gupta:still like have issues now.
Sasha Gupta:Like last Valentine's day, we did go on like desktop printers and we had
Sasha Gupta:a thousand orders a day and it was a nightmare because they couldn't cope.
Sasha Gupta:So each time we kind of level up, it's another case of.
Sasha Gupta:Figuring out what the next best solution is if that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that does, do you have to find, do you
Vicki Weinberg:have more than one printer now?
Vicki Weinberg:I know that's a really bad question,
Sasha Gupta:but now we've got three printers.
Sasha Gupta:Um, so if, when we're really busy, it's a lot easier.
Sasha Gupta:And like my granddad, he gets up when it's like, Valentine's
Sasha Gupta:day, he chooses to do this.
Sasha Gupta:I do not force it he insists, he bans me from being near the printer.
Sasha Gupta:Cause he thinks I'm bad luck and he'll start at like six in the morning
Sasha Gupta:and he would like get his three printers going and it will have them
Sasha Gupta:kind of like all printed by say 10.
Sasha Gupta:So it's just like four hours of him just like standing at the printers.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, wow.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Sasha Gupta:It's intense.
Sasha Gupta:He gets really angry.
Sasha Gupta:If you get near him, he doesn't want my help.
Sasha Gupta:He's like, get out like.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, that's commitment.
Vicki Weinberg:And you print your cards on demand don't you, which I
Vicki Weinberg:think is really, really smart.
Vicki Weinberg:And have you always done that or did you just like used to print
Vicki Weinberg:off cards and hope they'd sell?
Sasha Gupta:Uh, so originally I use a company called I think I'm shouting
Sasha Gupta:them out because they're really good.
Sasha Gupta:They're called, um, The Imaging Centre and like, I know a lot of
Sasha Gupta:people get their stuff printed, but.
Sasha Gupta:So what we did that at first, but I found it really hard for that reason.
Sasha Gupta:I didn't know what was going to sell.
Sasha Gupta:I have over a thousand designs, so I literally don't know what's going to sell
Sasha Gupta:until I put them on platforms like Etsy, Amazon, and the ones that take off will
Sasha Gupta:take off or I'll do them on Facebook ads.
Sasha Gupta:And again, just don't know till we test.
Sasha Gupta:So once I decided to print in-house, it just made it easy because it means
Sasha Gupta:that we could offer so many designs.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and it just doesn't matter to the customer.
Sasha Gupta:They get more choice.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and we're not limited as to like what we can give them because
Sasha Gupta:then we're not holding stock.
Sasha Gupta:So if I know it's Valentine's day, for instance, and we're
Sasha Gupta:going to run a Facebook ads, which I hope go well this year.
Sasha Gupta:And if we know like what our traditional bestsellers are beforehand, we might
Sasha Gupta:print a couple of thousand, just so cause we know they're going to go
Sasha Gupta:but, I've learned the lesson now, if I just won't print it, unless I'm
Sasha Gupta:like a hundred percent sure, whatever.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:And it's also nice as well, but I know that you can print messages
Vicki Weinberg:inside the cards as well as it's like, I guess that's another benefit
Vicki Weinberg:of printing them for the customer is that you can put what they want in it.
Vicki Weinberg:And that's really nice as well.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Sasha Gupta:It allows us to, occasionally we don't do it too often because it
Sasha Gupta:does take so much time, but like a couple of the designs that we can
Sasha Gupta:change the name on the front as well.
Sasha Gupta:But even like figuring out this is so silly, but even figuring
Sasha Gupta:out like how to print a message inside a card was so difficult.
Sasha Gupta:Like I kept flipping the paper the wrong way, and then like
Sasha Gupta:having to like teach my granddad.
Sasha Gupta:No, we flip it.
Sasha Gupta:This, it was like, it was such a minefield, but like eventually we kind of
Sasha Gupta:got our heads around it and I would say operations are quite like quite slick now.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:It sounds like you've made massive progress since you just first started
Vicki Weinberg:out like selling cards to your friends.
Vicki Weinberg:So how do you, how have you, do you think apart from like all the trial
Vicki Weinberg:and error that you've done, what else have you done that you think has
Vicki Weinberg:helped you grow to where you are now?
Sasha Gupta:Uh, a few things to be really like that the truth is hire
Sasha Gupta:a really good Facebook ad manager.
Sasha Gupta:Like I'd be lying if I said that that wasn't the biggest
Sasha Gupta:thing that grew our business.
Sasha Gupta:I think, um, I hired Carly Stringer does our Facebook ads and like, I only
Sasha Gupta:hired her to prove that they didn't work just to tick it off my list of
Sasha Gupta:like things that don't work for us.
Sasha Gupta:And we did every day cards with her and we lost money, like quite a lot of money.
Sasha Gupta:And then we did.
Sasha Gupta:Father's day campaign.
Sasha Gupta:And I think we made like 17 grand in revenue for three weeks, which was
Sasha Gupta:huge considering like, ah, our average item is £3.95, like that's a lot.
Sasha Gupta:And that's when I was like.
Sasha Gupta:Oh, wow.
Sasha Gupta:So basically Facebook ads is something I continually invest and try it
Sasha Gupta:and that's been like huge for us.
Sasha Gupta:Um, so that was probably one of our biggest growth things.
Sasha Gupta:But then the other things have been like, um, social media.
Sasha Gupta:So definitely showing my face on Instagram.
Sasha Gupta:Cause a few years ago I was terrified of showing my face.
Sasha Gupta:And if anyone sees my Instagram, now you won't believe it because
Sasha Gupta:what I do is show my face and let's be, but, um, I found that kind of
Sasha Gupta:showing more of the personality and the people behind the brand.
Sasha Gupta:It can be a bit, well, for me, it was quite scary, but actually that's been
Sasha Gupta:really helpful because people like to buy from people and they actually are
Sasha Gupta:interested in like your story and stuff.
Sasha Gupta:That's really helped us.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and also Pinterest, weirdly, um, I did, uh, I spent at the start
Sasha Gupta:a lot of time pinning and a lot of time, like setting up a scheduler.
Sasha Gupta:And actually that brought us in a lot of organic traffic that we
Sasha Gupta:weren't getting from anywhere else.
Sasha Gupta:So that's been really helpful.
Sasha Gupta:So I'd say those are the three things that's definitely helped us.
Vicki Weinberg:Well, that's so interesting.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And do you know you're the first person I think I've spoken to, who's mentioned
Vicki Weinberg:Pinterest, which I find really useful.
Vicki Weinberg:Is that still working for you now?
Vicki Weinberg:Do you still get traffic for your pins?
Sasha Gupta:Yes, I do.
Sasha Gupta:Um, I've been actually it's on my list right above me here.
Sasha Gupta:It says Pinterest in capital letters because, I have
Sasha Gupta:like, not scheduled for ages.
Sasha Gupta:And then, but even though I have not scheduled for ages, I would
Sasha Gupta:say we get 300 000 views to Pinterest our Pinterest account.
Sasha Gupta:And from that I get uh, a good few sales a month from Pinterest organically,
Sasha Gupta:still, even though I'm not pinning.
Sasha Gupta:So like when they go viral, they kind of stay in the atmosphere somewhere and it
Sasha Gupta:keeps bringing us traffic and sales back.
Sasha Gupta:So it's been so helpful.
Sasha Gupta:Um, I would say that I get the most benefit from it though, when
Sasha Gupta:I've got a scheduler running.
Sasha Gupta:So I use tailwind and when I've got pins like scheduled in the
Sasha Gupta:background, then, then it definitely helps our sales, especially for
Sasha Gupta:when things are a bit quieter.
Sasha Gupta:It's nice that you've got something kind of working for you
Sasha Gupta:without having to think about.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:I guess it does.
Vicki Weinberg:I guess Pinterest is, I know it's a search engine, but I guess it's
Vicki Weinberg:also kind of social media and I think it is true, isn't it?
Vicki Weinberg:That the more consistent you are, the more views you get and the higher you
Vicki Weinberg:rank in the algorithm for them and all of that, I suppose it probably the same.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, I think so.
Sasha Gupta:I think the way I would see as a search engine and not as a social media,
Sasha Gupta:particularly, I know some people use it as branding, like as a name, but
Sasha Gupta:I, my most controversial Pinterest tip that helped us the most was I pin
Sasha Gupta:competitor products which I know a lot of people would probably not do.
Sasha Gupta:I think it's counter-intuitive, but actually I found that really helpful
Sasha Gupta:because it teaches Pinterest to associate your products with the same stuff.
Sasha Gupta:So it teaches Pinterest that like say this is a funny birthday
Sasha Gupta:card that does really well.
Sasha Gupta:You can pin that one.
Sasha Gupta:And then you pin your own.
Sasha Gupta:Pinterest was like, oh, this board's already full of like, other funny
Sasha Gupta:birthday cards so Sasha's pin must be a funny birthday card too.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and I've actually found, like having that approach to it
Sasha Gupta:has been like the biggest game changer for, us for Pinterest.
Sasha Gupta:I definitely helped raised our traffic.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:That is so interesting.
Vicki Weinberg:I think, yeah, that sounds like a scary one to try, but I'm so pleased
Vicki Weinberg:that's worked for you and I think though that in a way they, we
Vicki Weinberg:shouldn't all be scared of competition because it's always going to be there.
Vicki Weinberg:So I guess acknowledging that yes, there are other people that sell
Vicki Weinberg:funny birthday cards, for example.
Vicki Weinberg:I mean, people know that anyway, so yeah, it does make sense.
Sasha Gupta:I probably am getting other people, having traffic to
Sasha Gupta:their sites too from pinning them.
Sasha Gupta:But every time we pin, it's almost like you get more authority for your own pins.
Sasha Gupta:So it's sort of, I just don't think about it, but I don't know if
Sasha Gupta:it's obviously different if like, you know, we have so many cards.
Sasha Gupta:I think it's maybe, I don't know if the same strategy would work for
Sasha Gupta:other products, but I definitely think it's something that people
Sasha Gupta:shouldn't be afraid to try.
Vicki Weinberg:That was really interesting.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And I've never spoken to anyone.
Vicki Weinberg:I think I'm feeling like I need to get a Pinterest person on at some point.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:I've heard that pinterest can be great for products, but you're
Vicki Weinberg:the first person I've spoken to.
Vicki Weinberg:Who's gone.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, actually it has worked.
Vicki Weinberg:So that's really interesting.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah definitely I want to talk to a Pinterest person.
Sasha Gupta:I'm always quite scared that I'll tell them what I do and they'll be
Sasha Gupta:like, that's not what you should be doing, but it is what's worked for us.
Sasha Gupta:So practice or not.
Sasha Gupta:If it's worked for us, I'm kind of like, you can't really
Sasha Gupta:tell me that it hasn't worked.
Vicki Weinberg:And coming back to your social media, which I will link
Vicki Weinberg:to your Instagram and in the show notes for this episode, actually Sasha.
Vicki Weinberg:Cause I really, I love your stories.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, and I found you I can't remember if you found me or I found
Vicki Weinberg:you, but we found each other on Instagram and I love watching you.
Vicki Weinberg:I think your story is so funny and so engaging and yeah, I'm definitely
Vicki Weinberg:not gonna buy cards anywhere else.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, you've convinced me that you are, that, you know, the
Vicki Weinberg:world's best card company.
Sasha Gupta:Literally, I've learned that if you say something
Sasha Gupta:enough then it just becomes true.
Sasha Gupta:It's fine.
Vicki Weinberg:One thing I loved seeing in your, in your well, your stories and in
Vicki Weinberg:your social media in general is like the role your family plays in your business.
Vicki Weinberg:I think it's so sweet.
Vicki Weinberg:I think your Nan is so funny.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, do you want to talk about sort of how your family involved?
Vicki Weinberg:I mean, you've mentioned your granddad's a bit and your Nan.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, I think so.
Sasha Gupta:I am really lucky.
Sasha Gupta:I have like a very supportive family.
Sasha Gupta:Cause I know like sometimes when you're starting a business
Sasha Gupta:can be really difficult.
Sasha Gupta:I'm not saying that it was easy for me to explain to my granddad.
Sasha Gupta:Who's like a quite strict Indian man or who was at one point to be like,
Sasha Gupta:Hey, I'm quitting law to sell cards like that wasn't the easiest thing.
Sasha Gupta:But, um, basically what happened is when I said I was going to take a
Sasha Gupta:year to give it a full, basically my granddad actually said to me, he
Sasha Gupta:pulled me aside and was like, you're obviously not happy doing this law thing.
Sasha Gupta:You seem to like this card thing it's actually seems to be making
Sasha Gupta:you some money, so you can do it.
Sasha Gupta:So I always say, I gave myself a year, but the truth is my granddad
Sasha Gupta:was like, you have one year and if you don't sort it out, you have to
Sasha Gupta:go get yourself a job, basically.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and so what happened was with my family involvement is like, so first
Sasha Gupta:I think my grandparents were like, this is like, my gran's always been
Sasha Gupta:really sweet, sweet, and supportive, but I think they were like, this is
Sasha Gupta:this cute thing that's Sasha's doing.
Sasha Gupta:And then when the Facebook ads happened and we suddenly started getting like
Sasha Gupta:300 orders a day for father's day, I think everyone was a bit like, oh, okay.
Sasha Gupta:This might be a real thing.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and then from there.
Sasha Gupta:They just, because I needed the help, they, everybody chipped in.
Sasha Gupta:So like my auntie, um, my grandparents, like everyone, like
Sasha Gupta:chipped in and then as it's grown.
Sasha Gupta:My grandparents actually have a travel agent and they don't have a lot to do.
Sasha Gupta:They just sort of keep it open for something to do almost.
Sasha Gupta:So now it's like this weird thing where it's become.
Sasha Gupta:Something that they enjoy doing for something to do.
Sasha Gupta:So it sort of gives them purpose, but I never want to say it like that.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and it's become more of a family business.
Sasha Gupta:Like now my gran helps pack the cards.
Sasha Gupta:My granddad prints the cards, um, and they do it alongside their own
Sasha Gupta:job and they very much love it.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and it's funny because they have their travel agents downstairs
Sasha Gupta:and like they'll have customers.
Sasha Gupta:And my gran will say to them customers like one minute,
Sasha Gupta:I'll come to you in a minute.
Sasha Gupta:I'm just packing this order that.
Vicki Weinberg:That's so funny.
Sasha Gupta:And so, yeah, no, it's, it's really fun.
Sasha Gupta:And like, we're really, I'm really close to them.
Sasha Gupta:So like, it's nice for me to also be able to spend that much time with my nan.
Sasha Gupta:We do the cards together.
Sasha Gupta:It's quite fun.
Sasha Gupta:And like putting on my social media, I really enjoy, but I'm
Sasha Gupta:also like very mindful that she's like the queen of the show.
Sasha Gupta:So if she doesn't want to do it, then I'm not going to like
Sasha Gupta:shove a camera in her face.
Sasha Gupta:Um, she is hilarious and she is a Savage.
Sasha Gupta:She like pretendes to be so sweet and it drives me insane,
Sasha Gupta:but this woman bullies me.
Sasha Gupta:She's like 70 and she's.
Sasha Gupta:Um, but it's funny as well as some of the cards are quite rude.
Sasha Gupta:And I used to think like she wouldn't understand them, but I caught
Sasha Gupta:her one day laughing to herself at one of the really rude ones.
Sasha Gupta:And that for me was like a really turning point in my life.
Sasha Gupta:And I was just like I'm not, I'm not going to discuss that with her.
Vicki Weinberg:Did you just assume it all went over her head?
Sasha Gupta:Genuinely, I think I asked her cause on my Instagram,
Sasha Gupta:every so often I'll do a chat with her, we'll film a chat together.
Sasha Gupta:And I asked her, I was like, what do you think of like these rude cards?
Sasha Gupta:Do you understand them?
Sasha Gupta:She was like, I wasn't born yesterday.
Sasha Gupta:I was like, well, okay.
Vicki Weinberg:Where do you get inspiration for your cards, by the way?
Sasha Gupta:Uh, just life.
Sasha Gupta:Like, I think I'm one of those people where a lot of the things in the
Sasha Gupta:cards of things that I would, that I would say in there very much in
Sasha Gupta:my voice, if that even makes sense.
Sasha Gupta:Or like sometimes like my friends will like have an idea or message me about,
Sasha Gupta:what about, have you thought about something like this, but generally like,
Sasha Gupta:they're just, I'm quite like, um, I give compliments in quite a sassy way.
Sasha Gupta:Like they're very backhanded, but it's just like who I am as a person.
Sasha Gupta:So I think a lot of it just comes from like, just how I would speak
Sasha Gupta:normally, if that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that does make sense.
Vicki Weinberg:And I guess I can see as well from some of your newer cards that like
Vicki Weinberg:yours take like cultural things, you know, things that are going on.
Vicki Weinberg:Like, um, I'm trying to think of an example.
Vicki Weinberg:So I've seen your Squid Games cards, for example, cause that's
Vicki Weinberg:kind of a thing that's happening.
Sasha Gupta:That's definitely been newer.
Sasha Gupta:That's been since I wanted to try something different and I
Sasha Gupta:never thought I could do the pop culture cards on the count of
Sasha Gupta:like, not being able to draw thing.
Sasha Gupta:But since I found like these Lyft app thing that kind of helps you
Sasha Gupta:turn it like a photo to a drawing style, I was like, oh, I'm in.
Sasha Gupta:And so since then, it's been really fun to be able to play around with.
Sasha Gupta:More of like topical pop culture type cards.
Sasha Gupta:That's been really fun.
Vicki Weinberg:And do you have cards that come in and out of the range or
Vicki Weinberg:like once they're there, are they there forever because you were mentioning
Vicki Weinberg:early, you've got over a thousand cards and that's a lot to keep track.
Sasha Gupta:It is a lot of spreadsheets a lot, but, um, no, I think this is
Sasha Gupta:a difficulty and I actually want your opinion on this because if you go to our
Sasha Gupta:website, like, I, I sometimes think the ranges can be a bit big, but now I feel
Sasha Gupta:like separated them out into mini ones.
Sasha Gupta:It's not too bad, but I always have this view of like, if it's one
Sasha Gupta:person's perfect card and they've bought it, I don't want to get rid of.
Sasha Gupta:Because even if it just works for one person, at least they've managed to
Sasha Gupta:get that card that fully significantly matches their situation, even if it's
Sasha Gupta:quite niche, if that makes sense.
Sasha Gupta:But if like I have, so I tend not to, if there's some, cards that are like
Sasha Gupta:really out of date that I will get rid of them because it's like, if the
Sasha Gupta:joke's a bit dead, like I've got a card.
Sasha Gupta:That's like Netflix, you're the chill to my Netflix.
Sasha Gupta:And I feel like that was kind of a thing years and years ago, but less so now.
Sasha Gupta:So I think maybe a couple of years from now that might make the cut, but
Sasha Gupta:generally, um, I would say they're quite evergreen and obviously these topical
Sasha Gupta:ones that we've just spoken about, like for Squid Games and stuff, that's
Sasha Gupta:different they all have an expiry date, but otherwise I kind of think like if
Sasha Gupta:they work, then I'll just keep them up.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, I would say, say, I think as well.
Vicki Weinberg:I think the main thing is when you've got a massive range is just, like you
Vicki Weinberg:said, they need to be easy to find.
Vicki Weinberg:I think as long as people can find the card that they want, and they're
Vicki Weinberg:not just like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, then I think it's fine.
Vicki Weinberg:But as you said on your site, the cards are really well organized.
Vicki Weinberg:I think people would know where to go.
Vicki Weinberg:And I mean, let's face it as well there are card shops probably have an even
Vicki Weinberg:bigger range of cards, but it's just like, it just comes down to how you
Vicki Weinberg:categorize them and break them down.
Sasha Gupta:I think having your own website is magic for that, because
Sasha Gupta:actually I can have an unlimited amount of cards provided there, like packaged
Sasha Gupta:in the right way because I still look at cards and I'm like, oh, actually my
Sasha Gupta:home range is missing a bit more sass or like I could do with a few more
Sasha Gupta:funnier birthday I mean a baby cards.
Sasha Gupta:So I think I'll always.
Sasha Gupta:Loads of cards, but when we did wholesale, that was tricky because I
Sasha Gupta:realized then that shops don't care.
Sasha Gupta:They don't want to like go through a thousand products.
Sasha Gupta:So I did just have to like massively cut it down.
Sasha Gupta:Um, but I just went with the bestsellers for each category.
Sasha Gupta:So it didn't feel too painful.
Vicki Weinberg:That's actually, that's a nice segue.
Vicki Weinberg:Actually.
Vicki Weinberg:Let's actually talk a little bit about wholesale, cause I know that's
Vicki Weinberg:something, um, that you've had quite a journey on, shall we say?
Vicki Weinberg:Um, and I know it's something you started and then stopped and then
Vicki Weinberg:have just recently picked up again.
Vicki Weinberg:So do you want to talk about home wholesale and sort of where you
Vicki Weinberg:started and where you are now and what's happened in between and I
Vicki Weinberg:might interrupt and ask the questions.
Sasha Gupta:Of course, please do so.
Sasha Gupta:I've always been skeptical of like trade shows and stuff.
Sasha Gupta:Cause I just thought, why am I going to spend two grand
Sasha Gupta:for no one to buy my cards?
Sasha Gupta:That was like very much my attitude probably wasn't right.
Sasha Gupta:Um, I've been since working with Therese, the wholesale collaborative,
Sasha Gupta:no what's she called Small
Vicki Weinberg:Business Collaborative.
Vicki Weinberg:She was actually, um, I'm just going to mention on a podcast episode
Vicki Weinberg:recently, which I'm also going to link to in the show notes, because I think
Vicki Weinberg:you'll, don't mind me saying Sasha.
Vicki Weinberg:she's amazing when it comes to wholesale, she knows everything.
Vicki Weinberg:She's got some great advice.
Vicki Weinberg:So I'll link through to that.
Vicki Weinberg:Cause I think that's really relevant.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Sasha Gupta:She completely changed my life wholesale wise.
Sasha Gupta:So before I worked with Therese, I cold called.
Sasha Gupta:This is funny.
Sasha Gupta:Sometimes don't you find not knowing is great because it makes you just
Sasha Gupta:take action, becauseI didn't know anything about how it all works.
Sasha Gupta:I just caught a shop and I was like, hi, I've got really good cards.
Sasha Gupta:And then turns out they were a national store and they had 50
Sasha Gupta:stores didn't realize, um, and they were like come to our place.
Sasha Gupta:So I went to the place and I had some of the toughest conversations
Sasha Gupta:with I, and they were like, obviously everything will be barcoded.
Sasha Gupta:I was like, obviously didn't even know how you get a barcode.
Sasha Gupta:Okay.
Sasha Gupta:And I was like, sure, of course it'll be barcoded.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and then they gave me a price that I needed to get to
Sasha Gupta:and their price was outrageous.
Sasha Gupta:And I was so excited to have got the order because I think
Sasha Gupta:they would have liked 7,000.
Sasha Gupta:I took the price and I think, I can't remember it, but I made pennies a card.
Sasha Gupta:It wasn't worth it.
Sasha Gupta:I think for the amount of cards they ordered, it wasn't worth it.
Sasha Gupta:Like, I think I might've made a couple of grand in total, but the
Sasha Gupta:amount of labor and stuff, that was it, just, my family became a sweat
Sasha Gupta:shop and we got these cards out.
Sasha Gupta:So like ever since then, I was like, um, it was so funny because to the
Sasha Gupta:outside world, it looked so successful.
Sasha Gupta:Like everyone started seeing my cards, like in these shops everywhere,
Sasha Gupta:but for, from a bottom line perspective, it just wasn't worth it..
Vicki Weinberg:And presumably you had to print all those cards, put them in
Vicki Weinberg:envelopes packaged them up, put them in boxes, send them to these stores.
Sasha Gupta:It was awful Like we had.
Sasha Gupta:Uh, the first order was about, I think, 7,000.
Sasha Gupta:We were handpacking.
Sasha Gupta:And also we don't just put them in envelopes because when they're going
Sasha Gupta:to stores, you have to put them in cello wraps and our house is full when
Sasha Gupta:you, I don't know if anyone's ever had to do this, but when you seal a
Sasha Gupta:cello wrap, you've got these little flimsy bits that come off the end and
Sasha Gupta:you can never get them off your hands.
Sasha Gupta:And like, I think weeks after the order, I was still finding them like in cupboards,
Sasha Gupta:like just these little package bits.
Sasha Gupta:So it completely like took over my entire house.
Sasha Gupta:Um, And yeah, so it was, it was one of those things where it looked
Sasha Gupta:really shiny on the outside, but actually just wasn't worth it.
Sasha Gupta:So I was really cynical about wholesale.
Sasha Gupta:Then I started working with Therese and she was kind of.
Sasha Gupta:Made me see that it is possible to make it work profitably.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and it was interesting because selling to a normal people's fine.
Sasha Gupta:I obviously I'm proud of my cards.
Sasha Gupta:I think they're great, but it made me realize I had a
Sasha Gupta:lot of insecurity in myself.
Sasha Gupta:You know, when you're trying to sell to a shop, I started to think
Sasha Gupta:like, oh, oh, are cards even funny?
Sasha Gupta:Are they as good as other people's cards?
Sasha Gupta:And then Therese kind of said to me, like, Sasha, you sold 50,000 cards to people.
Sasha Gupta:Like online.
Sasha Gupta:So why is this different?
Sasha Gupta:Like, it will be fine.
Sasha Gupta:And I think it's really interesting, but once you get over, like the mindset
Sasha Gupta:stuff, um, touch wood, I think it's going to be really helpful because say so at
Sasha Gupta:the moment, I think we're hoping, I think the target is to hopefully get to like
Sasha Gupta:10 customers by the end of this year.
Sasha Gupta:Like regulars and it's not too far off.
Sasha Gupta:Um, but imagine I can grow that to 50 by like this time next year
Sasha Gupta:or a hundred this time, next year.
Sasha Gupta:And you realize like, it would take so much pressure off,
Sasha Gupta:like your income a little bit.
Sasha Gupta:So yeah, that's been a bit of a journey for me
Vicki Weinberg:and it'll put you in front of more people obviously as well.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, it all sounds good.
Vicki Weinberg:Have you, what have you learned about sort of like the process side of things?
Vicki Weinberg:So, cause I'm, I'm guessing, so if you do end up with 10 regular customers,
Vicki Weinberg:have you thought about what you might need to do differently in order to
Vicki Weinberg:actually fulfill those orders as well as fulfilling your everyday
Vicki Weinberg:orders you get through your website?
Vicki Weinberg:Cause it sounds like that could be, want to say a big jump.
Vicki Weinberg:I hope, you know, how, how, I mean that, I mean, in terms of the number
Vicki Weinberg:of cards you're having to produce on like a daily, weekly, monthly
Vicki Weinberg:basis, that could be a huge jump.
Vicki Weinberg:So have you thought about that at all?
Sasha Gupta:Um, not yet, because I think I'm a little bit like deal with
Sasha Gupta:it when it comes to at the moment.
Sasha Gupta:It's not too crazy because you to do a hundred cards, isn't too time consuming
Sasha Gupta:for us to manage, but I've had to put in separate processes to be like priority
Sasha Gupta:each day is to get today's orders done then it's the wholesale order
Sasha Gupta:afterwards, if you know what I mean?
Sasha Gupta:Because, um, so if we think of them as two separate things, and then
Sasha Gupta:I've got a system in place now, so like I kind of, I do need to make
Sasha Gupta:our invoicing system a lot smoother.
Sasha Gupta:Cause it takes me a long time to manually copy in each line
Sasha Gupta:of what everyone's orders.
Sasha Gupta:So there's definitely things that need to be.
Sasha Gupta:Fixed within that.
Sasha Gupta:Um, but also weirdly where I do have a system is more for the selling
Sasha Gupta:thanks to Therese than anywhere else.
Sasha Gupta:So now I use Trello and I have like a board that tells me like
Sasha Gupta:all of the leads and like they're all into different columns.
Sasha Gupta:So like this week is like contact.
Sasha Gupta:So one section is like, have contacted that after I've
Sasha Gupta:contacted to the first week.
Sasha Gupta:I put them in section two, which is like send a sample pack
Sasha Gupta:as, so it gives me a really.
Sasha Gupta:clear view what's really cool is what she's done is for my existing customers.
Sasha Gupta:I have like columns, like months.
Sasha Gupta:So when do each month, I know when the last ordered, so say somebody last
Sasha Gupta:ordered in November that I set a reminder on Trello to email them in January for
Sasha Gupta:Valentine's day, or if they last ordered in like August, I'd have a note in October
Sasha Gupta:to say, Hey, how are the cards going?
Sasha Gupta:By the way, we've got these new shiny Christmas lines.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and so actually I found that having a system for selling.
Sasha Gupta:One of the biggest, because you don't have time to second guess yourself
Sasha Gupta:when it's like already systemized.
Sasha Gupta:Does that make sense?
Sasha Gupta:You can't talk yourself out of like approaching somebody if it's in
Sasha Gupta:your diary to approach them about.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:And it sounds like, so first of all, it sounds like you weren't too
Vicki Weinberg:worried about contacting people.
Vicki Weinberg:You were saying you were just picking up the phone and not really know what
Vicki Weinberg:you were doing, but after you'd had some sort of, I don't want to say that.
Vicki Weinberg:I don't know if they were bad experiences, but let's say challenging experiences.
Vicki Weinberg:You can tell me if they were bad.
Vicki Weinberg:I don't know.
Sasha Gupta:Oh they were awful.
Vicki Weinberg:Did that change how you felt about picking up
Vicki Weinberg:the phone and talk to people?
Sasha Gupta:Definitely, definitely.
Sasha Gupta:Like I said, one person the chat was doing really well.
Sasha Gupta:Then I told him that I'd need him to pay pro forma invoice
Sasha Gupta:instead of 30 daycredit terms.
Sasha Gupta:And he swore at me and hung up and I was like, oh, okay.
Sasha Gupta:So that one was pretty shit.
Sasha Gupta:Then I had, um, yeah, not making people out of the monsters.
Sasha Gupta:I'm really not like most people are lovely, but after doing, I imagine
Sasha Gupta:when you're calling and calling and calling like, you know, you've had like
Sasha Gupta:30 phone calls in a day and they will no, one's really been that interested.
Sasha Gupta:It, it does make you feel a way, but I think I had to like, realize,
Sasha Gupta:like, it doesn't matter, like there's like however many shops in the
Sasha Gupta:UK, even if I can get 2% of them.
Sasha Gupta:Then I would be happy, like I would making loads of money.
Sasha Gupta:And so I had to realize that I almost started telling myself that
Sasha Gupta:every person that said no, I'm just closer to the person that said yeah.
Sasha Gupta:And almost just like not well, so I don't know if this is true for you.
Sasha Gupta:I know you had your own business but like trying not to see
Sasha Gupta:it as a reflection of you.
Sasha Gupta:So people said no to the business.
Sasha Gupta:I'm like, they said no to me.
Sasha Gupta:And it's like, well,
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, I think that's a really good attitude thinking like every
Vicki Weinberg:no is getting close to a yes, because, and I really resonate with what you said
Vicki Weinberg:about taking it personally, because when it's your products and you've designed
Vicki Weinberg:them and you've put like your heart and your soul and your time and your
Vicki Weinberg:money and everything else into them, it does feel like they're rejecting you.
Vicki Weinberg:So if they say, no, I don't want your, your things.
Vicki Weinberg:It does feel like you got like.
Vicki Weinberg:This is, you know, the saying no to me, but then not, of course, you
Vicki Weinberg:know, it might just be that they've already got their own stocks of cards
Vicki Weinberg:or whatever the product is that it is really hard not to take it personally.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, and yeah, and, and not to take, but for me, anyway, I remember feeling like
Vicki Weinberg:when I was getting nos for anything, I just used to feel like, oh, they don't
Vicki Weinberg:like me, but it's nothing to do with you.
Vicki Weinberg:And like, I think once you get sort of your ego out of
Vicki Weinberg:the way, it really does help.
Sasha Gupta:It's weird because it's like, obviously in that situation,
Sasha Gupta:you're upset because you're.
Sasha Gupta:Your ego, if anything is diminished, it's not like you're being
Sasha Gupta:arrogant, but it is the case.
Sasha Gupta:It's still, you need to just get your ego out of the way in the sense of, it's
Sasha Gupta:not about us, but like I found that hard.
Sasha Gupta:I didn't necessarily have but even like friends, like when I was like,
Sasha Gupta:oh, they're just, they don't love like they're not super interested in my
Sasha Gupta:business or they don't love my cards.
Sasha Gupta:I felt really like sad.
Sasha Gupta:And then I realized like my friends are dentist.
Sasha Gupta:I don't call her and be like, how was picking teeth today?
Sasha Gupta:Like, I don't do that.
Sasha Gupta:I've never done that.
Sasha Gupta:So why just because I've started my own business.
Sasha Gupta:Do I expect that same level of thing.
Sasha Gupta:Um, so I have to deal with it with that.
Sasha Gupta:And then I had to deal with my ego with wholesale tier and just be like,
Sasha Gupta:you know, you're just not going to be everyone's cup of tea in the same
Sasha Gupta:way that I don't like everything, but that doesn't mean I hate people.
Vicki Weinberg:Does that make sense?
Vicki Weinberg:For me is I really don't like it when people don't respect what you
Vicki Weinberg:do, because it's your own thing.
Vicki Weinberg:And they kind of think you've got like a, I'm saying little in air quotes.
Vicki Weinberg:I think you've got like a little business or a hobby and they don't take it as
Vicki Weinberg:seriously as if you were employed and you could be doing exactly the same thing.
Vicki Weinberg:But if you worked for Clintons, they take you really seriously.
Vicki Weinberg:But because it's your own thing, they're like, oh yeah, Your little hobby or
Vicki Weinberg:your little side business or whatever.
Vicki Weinberg:That's what I find quite offensive.
Vicki Weinberg:Other than that is fine.
Sasha Gupta:I get that a lot.
Vicki Weinberg:Do you?
Sasha Gupta:No, no.
Sasha Gupta:I think I can understand what caused, why that would like not
Sasha Gupta:be okay because they are just dismissing your kind of livelihood.
Sasha Gupta:But like, I definitely get a lot of that but I don't know.
Sasha Gupta:There's something a bit like unhinged about me, but whenever someone's like
Sasha Gupta:that with me, I just sort of enjoy it.
Sasha Gupta:I just kind of like save it in a bank of my head of just like motivation.
Sasha Gupta:And I'm just kind of like, yeah, that's fine.
Sasha Gupta:That's really good.
Vicki Weinberg:Possibly it says you've got more self confidence than I do.
Vicki Weinberg:I think to be honest, it hasn't happened to me for a long time, but when it did,
Vicki Weinberg:I used to take severe offense to it.
Vicki Weinberg:So yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:Maybe emotionally.
Sasha Gupta:I mean, I've had a lot of therapy as well
Sasha Gupta:although
Vicki Weinberg:I'm really pleased that that doesn't get you that because
Vicki Weinberg:I feel like it's really like having your own business is hard anyway.
Vicki Weinberg:And when like everyone around, you isn't, even if they're not being
Vicki Weinberg:dismissive, if they're not being fully supportive, it can be hard.
Vicki Weinberg:So I'm really glad that you don't have those feelings about.
Sasha Gupta:Did you ever have people have like quite intrusive questions
Sasha Gupta:that they wouldn't ask you, if you didn't have your own business,
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah like how much you earning.
Sasha Gupta:And I was like, when I was working in law, you never
Sasha Gupta:once asked me how much I earn, but today you're going to be at lunch.
Sasha Gupta:It'd be like, how much money have you made this month?
Sasha Gupta:How much money have you made bitch?
Sasha Gupta:Do you know what I mean?
Sasha Gupta:It just felt a little bit like, excuse me.
Sasha Gupta:I just wonder if that was the same for you.
Sasha Gupta:Like just this thing of when you start a small business, people just
Sasha Gupta:suddenly think that the other it's a weird, like perception shift in
Sasha Gupta:terms of questions that you got.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, I know what you mean.
Vicki Weinberg:And like the generous part of me that it does feel like some, I think part of
Vicki Weinberg:it is genuine curiosity because I think, I think there are lots more people who
Vicki Weinberg:would like to have their own business to do their own thing than actually do.
Vicki Weinberg:And so there's a part of me that thinks that some of these questions
Vicki Weinberg:are like, they're going, I wonder if I could do that, but would I make
Vicki Weinberg:enough money to cover my mortgage?
Vicki Weinberg:You know, you know, like I think part of it is I think part of it might be
Vicki Weinberg:that, I mean, some of it, it, I think it kind of depends on who's asking you
Vicki Weinberg:know who's asking and where they're coming from, but I do I think a lot
Vicki Weinberg:of people that I speak to, I think are more, I think are coming from a place
Vicki Weinberg:of oh I would quite like to do that.
Vicki Weinberg:And they're just trying to suss it out, trying to think,
Vicki Weinberg:okay, is she making a living?
Vicki Weinberg:And you know what I mean?
Vicki Weinberg:And I kind of get that?
Vicki Weinberg:Um, because I think that is such a scary thing to do.
Vicki Weinberg:And.
Vicki Weinberg:Uh, when I started my business before that I hadn't, I'd already left my corporate
Vicki Weinberg:career and I've been doing something else.
Vicki Weinberg:It didn't, it wasn't a, as much of a big leap, but say you're like working
Vicki Weinberg:a full-time corporate job as you were.
Vicki Weinberg:And you're thinking of leaving that, that slightly.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, it's really scary.
Sasha Gupta:I mean, like I moved back home as well, which helped like, yeah, I can't
Sasha Gupta:deny, like I can't pretend that it isn't scary and I think you're right,
Sasha Gupta:actually maybe I'm being a bit cynical.
Sasha Gupta:Well, no, some people would just being nosy, but I agree that like
Sasha Gupta:there's those that want to ask those questions from that perspective.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:Cause it is so scary to do isn't it?
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Sasha Gupta:It's scary.
Sasha Gupta:I don't think as well, that it's a case of it doesn't work because obviously
Sasha Gupta:sometimes it doesn't always work, but, you know, there were times for
Sasha Gupta:me where things have gone horribly wrong, but I think if you're consistent
Sasha Gupta:enough and you keep at it for long enough, I don't know anyone where it
Sasha Gupta:hasn't, they haven't figured it out.
Sasha Gupta:Whether they've had to pivot a lot or not, like if they might've
Sasha Gupta:had to change a lot of things.
Sasha Gupta:But I think if you're willing to change and learn, I think
Sasha Gupta:you can kind of figure out.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, I think I see what you mean.
Vicki Weinberg:I think that's right.
Vicki Weinberg:I think that, like you said, even if it is a big, you know, even if it's
Vicki Weinberg:a big pivot, like a complete 180, I think that, yeah, if you keep, I think
Vicki Weinberg:there's a lot of sense of consistency.
Vicki Weinberg:Isn't there.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, And I was talking to a friend recent, he starts up a completely
Vicki Weinberg:different business and she's a few months in and we'll say, no,
Vicki Weinberg:she hasn't made a lot of money.
Vicki Weinberg:And I was saying, well, if you keep going, I truly, truly believe you will.
Vicki Weinberg:But the main thing is you just have to keep going.
Vicki Weinberg:And it's, I think it's getting through that hard, early stage
Vicki Weinberg:where you're not quite sure.
Vicki Weinberg:What's working.
Vicki Weinberg:And that's what I think that's when, I mean, we also make mistakes now, but I
Vicki Weinberg:think that early bit where you're making mistake after mistake, potentially.
Vicki Weinberg:I know noteveryone does.
Vicki Weinberg:I did mistake after mistake.
Vicki Weinberg:It's that's a bit where it's like, am I cut out for this?
Vicki Weinberg:Should I be doing it?
Vicki Weinberg:And I think if you can get through that, Then I think you, you
Vicki Weinberg:know, you do stand a much better chance, but I read the statistic.
Vicki Weinberg:I think a lot of businesses do, um, stop fairly early on.
Vicki Weinberg:And with some of them, I do feel like, and obviously everyone has their own reasons,
Vicki Weinberg:but I do think with some of them, if people sort of kept going, you never know,
Vicki Weinberg:do you, what might be around the corner?
Vicki Weinberg:Where if you give it another six months and not everyone
Vicki Weinberg:can can for various reasons.
Vicki Weinberg:But, um, I do think for lots of us and almost everyone I've spoken
Vicki Weinberg:to the beginning been really, really tough for different reasons.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, no, I completely agree.
Sasha Gupta:I think, I think back to the, when I first started, I quit law.
Sasha Gupta:I thought we had that kind of year to go.
Sasha Gupta:Those first three to four months were awful.
Sasha Gupta:Like, because nothing was fully kicking off to where it needed to be.
Sasha Gupta:And I had, like, I was working at my grandparents' office.
Sasha Gupta:I work upstairs and like they were watching over me and they could see,
Sasha Gupta:you know, now orders were coming in.
Sasha Gupta:And like, that felt really scary.
Sasha Gupta:And I remember that time, it was really hard.
Sasha Gupta:I kind of had.
Sasha Gupta:I have tunnel vision and almost not care about the results and just keep
Sasha Gupta:putting in the consistent action.
Sasha Gupta:I'm just focused on the action and not let my fear of the results kind
Sasha Gupta:of cloud me if that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that does make sense because I think everything takes
Vicki Weinberg:much longer than you think it does.
Vicki Weinberg:And you see people on Instagram and you feel like they've come out of nowhere but
Vicki Weinberg:they haven't have they they've probably been plugging away for years and you only.
Vicki Weinberg:You know, you've only just noticed them.
Vicki Weinberg:It's not that they've been an overnight success.
Vicki Weinberg:I don't think there's such a thing.
Sasha Gupta:I don't think so.
Sasha Gupta:I think it can definitely look that way.
Sasha Gupta:I'm sure people look at our card shop actually, because I remember when I was
Sasha Gupta:first starting, so I look at loads of people card shop and be like on they've
Sasha Gupta:just instantly come out of nowhere and they're huge and I'm sure, like we're
Sasha Gupta:not huge at all, but I think people might think like, oh, they seem to
Sasha Gupta:be doing like making more sales, like overnight and it's yeah, it's just not.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:And that's why I love having these conversations because I think it's
Vicki Weinberg:really good for people to hear that, you know, yes, you're, you know, doing well
Vicki Weinberg:now, but actually there have been those hard times, you know, in the outset.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think that's really important for people to hear that because sometimes it
Vicki Weinberg:can get, especially on Instagram, it can look like everyone's do better than you.
Vicki Weinberg:Everyone's further ahead than you.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, and not everyone shares the hard stuff.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, and to be fair, they're not going to, but I think I'm
Sasha Gupta:really glad that you do stuff like this.
Sasha Gupta:Cause I listened to things like this, just to remind me that same thing.
Sasha Gupta:And then I have to think about my own life.
Sasha Gupta:Like I love my gran to death and I love my family business and I
Sasha Gupta:love that we worked together, but sometimes it's infuriating at times.
Sasha Gupta:Like things will go wrong and like, you know, but that's just part of it.
Sasha Gupta:Isn't it.
Sasha Gupta:And it's both.
Sasha Gupta:Do you think it's easy to forget that when you kind of think only you have
Sasha Gupta:the hard stuff and then when you're looking at other people's businesses.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:You're really good about being honest about things like that,
Vicki Weinberg:actually, which I think is great.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Sasha Gupta:I have to be careful sometimes.
Sasha Gupta:So I'm like, there's only so honest I can be in for like somebody, like my
Sasha Gupta:grandparents like my gran will hit me.
Sasha Gupta:So like I have to try and find these like weird balances between like what's.
Sasha Gupta:Okay.
Sasha Gupta:What's not.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that must be like a fine.
Vicki Weinberg:Very fine line.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah.
Sasha Gupta:I do sometimes think I veer a little close to the edge.
Vicki Weinberg:So one final question, Sasha, if you don't mind, which is
Vicki Weinberg:what would your number one piece of advice be for someone else who wanted
Vicki Weinberg:to sort of start up their own business, particularly one selling products?
Vicki Weinberg:What would you say?
Vicki Weinberg:Um, that'd be something you'd want people to take away from this.
Sasha Gupta:I want it to be useful.
Sasha Gupta:So I'm thinking I'll be honest, practically for me, is it before Facebook
Sasha Gupta:ads kicked off about the best thing that I did for my business and it won't be
Sasha Gupta:the same for everybody, but as I felt, I felt I sold on third party channels.
Sasha Gupta:So to start with, um, putting yourself on whatever's right for
Sasha Gupta:you, whether it be Amazon cos I know you do a lot with that or Etsy or
Sasha Gupta:eBay, I sold on all three of those.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and that was probably the best thing I did because it allowed me to
Sasha Gupta:get money in fairly quickly with low effort and get kind of low costs and
Sasha Gupta:get an immediate answer as to like, does anybody want this which designs do well?
Sasha Gupta:So I think before you, cause like doing all your other marketing takes a lot of
Sasha Gupta:time to build, so wherever you can kind of bring revenue in kind of straight
Sasha Gupta:away, I think you should definitely do.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that's really good advice.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:I did the same initially I started off, I thought we were asked back
Vicki Weinberg:before I started off selling on Amazon.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, because like you say those, those marketplaces, whatever ones they
Vicki Weinberg:might be for your products, there's customers there, because the hardest
Vicki Weinberg:thing initially is getting customers to come to you wherever that's your
Vicki Weinberg:social media, whether that's your website, um, they don't know you.
Vicki Weinberg:They've never heard of you.
Vicki Weinberg:It's much, much harder to get traffic to your site.
Vicki Weinberg:Isn't it than it is to get traffic initially.
Sasha Gupta:And like, you should still a hundred percent, I would say, do your
Sasha Gupta:social media, but your social media is going to be frustrating in my experience,
Sasha Gupta:at least at the start, it's a slow build and it's going to be frustrating.
Sasha Gupta:So I would definitely make sure that you're getting increments where,
Sasha Gupta:where you can, and then still working on your social media, because at,
Sasha Gupta:at least as that building it's.
Sasha Gupta:You're still getting money.
Sasha Gupta:And also the customers that are coming to you from you, the platforms, you know,
Sasha Gupta:it's the basic stuff like giving them a thank you note that kind of references
Sasha Gupta:either your social media or your main website, and then bringing them over.
Sasha Gupta:But if you didn't, if I think back and I didn't have any of that kind
Sasha Gupta:of third-party benefit of traffic and it was just me doing my social
Sasha Gupta:media from scratch, I would definitely find that quite disheartening.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, I think you're right.
Vicki Weinberg:And I suppose at the same about website as well, I still think
Vicki Weinberg:if you start selling on Etsy, for example, have a website anyway.
Vicki Weinberg:Even if it's quite basic, you might not have everything on there.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, just have your own place as well, because while you're making
Vicki Weinberg:your sales on, let's say Etsy, you can be building up your website.
Vicki Weinberg:That's something you can do it in the background.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, yeah, you definitely don't need to have it all from day one.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, but like you say, you need to be getting some money from somewhere.
Vicki Weinberg:So yeah, I think that's fantastic advice.
Sasha Gupta:Um, and I guess the other thing is just kind of, it's
Sasha Gupta:like, I'm sure that you'll have people that talk about this a lot better.
Sasha Gupta:Like I am, and I'm sure you've made this cause it sounds like both of us, at
Sasha Gupta:least we didn't have the most confidence, like what we're doing at the start.
Sasha Gupta:Um, cause like also your own insecurity, et cetera.
Sasha Gupta:But the biggest piece of advice I'd give you is just like tunnel
Sasha Gupta:vision and just keep going almost like turn off the part of you.
Sasha Gupta:That's like, cause you don't really have time to explore the part of your.
Sasha Gupta:What if it fails, like you just, don't, it's a waste of your time,
Sasha Gupta:that entire thought process.
Sasha Gupta:And so just try and have as much tunnel vision as possible, and just
Sasha Gupta:keep focusing on the next task and the next task and the next task.
Sasha Gupta:And then like momentum will start to like build.
Sasha Gupta:I promise you it will build it feels like it wont but it will.
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, well,
Vicki Weinberg:that's fantastic advice.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And I'll also, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna add one thing to that and say
Vicki Weinberg:with that tunnel vision, try not to pay too much attention to what other people
Vicki Weinberg:are doing, because if you're constantly comparing yourself, I think that nothing
Vicki Weinberg:can drain your confidence, that looking at competitor on Instagram or whatever that.
Vicki Weinberg:But, you know what I mean?
Vicki Weinberg:However well you're doing, if you start comparing yourself
Vicki Weinberg:to other people, I don't think you're ever going to win that one.
Sasha Gupta:It can happen to me now.
Sasha Gupta:I'll see like, oh, the card shops are even okay.
Sasha Gupta:I'm a bit ridiculous.
Sasha Gupta:I'll see Moonpig and then I'll get really upset.
Sasha Gupta:It's like, well, they're Moonpig Sasha calm down but like, yeah, I just, I don't
Sasha Gupta:think it's a healthy, a healthy space.
Sasha Gupta:Like, I don't think it's beneficial
Vicki Weinberg:yeah, I don't, I don't know either.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think, and also I think my hope for you Sasha I would say as well,
Vicki Weinberg:and I'm sure you, like, you do know this, but for you, I think what you
Vicki Weinberg:can offer that Moonpig can't is great.
Vicki Weinberg:Cause they're like fake.
Vicki Weinberg:You mean what you do is pretty much the same.
Vicki Weinberg:You offer really good cards and you can offer the personalization and everything,
Vicki Weinberg:but what's special about you is that your card and that your personality
Vicki Weinberg:and there's like a face behind it.
Vicki Weinberg:And we see you and we see your nan and they can't do that and don't do that.
Vicki Weinberg:So yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:That's what I'd say to anyone.
Vicki Weinberg:Who's sort of comparing themselves to bigger companies, as well as it you've
Vicki Weinberg:got something that they can't have.
Vicki Weinberg:They're too big for that now, do you know what I mean?
Sasha Gupta:Yeah, completely.
Sasha Gupta:I'm really glad you said that actually, because somebody else
Sasha Gupta:had that's when I started out.
Sasha Gupta:Cause I was like, no, I don't want to show my face.
Sasha Gupta:it's like unprofessional.
Sasha Gupta:Like, and then somebody said to me, like, think about why you buy from people.
Sasha Gupta:And actually, when you think about it, chances are you do like buying
Sasha Gupta:from a business, you a small business where you knew the face and
Sasha Gupta:you're like, I like what they do.
Sasha Gupta:And so then you realize like, oh, well the people will feel the same way about you.
Sasha Gupta:So if you think about how, what you like to buy, why you like to buy from
Sasha Gupta:places that might help you like, realize like, oh, actually that is a thing.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And I also realize saying this to you.
Vicki Weinberg:I'm a little bit of a hypocrite, cause I'm really scared of to
Vicki Weinberg:put my face out there as well.
Vicki Weinberg:So I'm just probably reminded me that I need to start doing it as well.
Sasha Gupta:I actually really enjoy your content.
Sasha Gupta:You did.
Sasha Gupta:Um, what did you do?
Sasha Gupta:Was it like you did quizzes as well where, you could tell from
Sasha Gupta:like the branded the bottle and we had to work out what brand it was.
Sasha Gupta:Was it like something, but I also think it is worth saying that if
Sasha Gupta:you don't want to show your face.
Sasha Gupta:You can still build a brand online without doing it.
Sasha Gupta:If you're so against it, like there are ways to do it.
Sasha Gupta:Like you've had some really good, I really enjoyed that.
Sasha Gupta:And it showed me that I learn about what you did, but you
Sasha Gupta:weren't showing your face.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:I'll thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:But I'm still going to try and show my face.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, thank you so much for talking to me.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much.
Vicki Weinberg:Everything you've shared.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, I'm going to link free to everything that you do in the show
Vicki Weinberg:notes, so people can come and find you and find your cards and yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much.
Sasha Gupta:No seriously thank you I've had a great time.
Vicki Weinberg:Okay.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end of this episode.
Vicki Weinberg:If you enjoyed it, please do leave me a review that really helps
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Vicki Weinberg:If you think that they also might enjoy it, you can find
Vicki Weinberg:me at www.Vickiweinberg.com.
Vicki Weinberg:There you'll find links to all of my social channels.
Vicki Weinberg:You'll find lots more information.
Vicki Weinberg:Well, one of the past podcasts, episodes, and lots of free resources too.
Vicki Weinberg:So again, that's Vicki weinberg.com.
Vicki Weinberg:Take care, have a good week and see you next time.