In this latest episode of the podcast 'If I were the Minister for Education', I explore the recent happenings within the Irish primary education system, discussing the aftermath of SET allocations and the implications this had on schools and teachers. The episode also delves into the issue of Irish school buildings being gifted to private religious bodies and assesses the impact of this decision. Finally, I explore why the Scottish see the Irish education system in such a positive light, primarily referring to Ireland's performance in PISA tests. Show notes available on Anseo.net

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-7:

Hello?

2

Hello.

3

You are very welcome to if I

were the minister for education.

4

A regular podcast where I explore the

world of the Irish primary education

5

system and tell you what I would do

if I were the minister for education.

6

This is Simon Lewis here with a trip

around the first half of February.

7

In this episode, I will be exploring the

SCT allocations and the aftermath of that.

8

I'll be looking at how schools are

being gifted to private bodies and

9

why the Scottish think work great.

10

But for all the wrong reasons.

11

I hope you enjoy this episode.

12

And if you do, please

feel free to subscribe.

13

By going to anseo.net on

subscribing ties as a podcast,

14

or even my regular newsletter,

which I send out every fortnight.

15

To tell you all about what's going

on in the world of the Irish primary

16

school system and what I would do if

I were the minister for education.

17

So let's get on with it on,

see what has been featuring in

18

the Irish education system and.

19

It's first.

20

Is set allocations.

21

And for those of you who are

watching this on video, you'll

22

probably see a very cross.

23

Looking principal, if you haven't.

24

If you can't see, and you're just

listing in here, you could be assured

25

that principal is looking very

across the deed and with good reason,

26

because the set allocations for.

27

For those of you who

don't know what they are.

28

These were the hours given to schools to

help children with traditionally called

29

learning support or resource hours.

30

If you're very old, they

might be known as remedial.

31

Of course you don't use that

language anymore, but sash stands

32

for special education teaching.

33

And the allocations are based at

basically every school is allocated

34

a certain number of hours per week.

35

Which they can use to have a certain

number of teachers to teach the

36

entire caseload of children with

additional needs in the school.

37

The definition of what special

education at needs at is these days.

38

And 2024 has broadened

a lot since this began.

39

It used to be just literacy and

numeracy needs, but that's now

40

extended to all sorts of needs,

whether they be behavioral needs,

41

emotional needs, sometimes care needs.

42

Despite that being the job

of special needs assistance.

43

And every single need between that.

44

And.

45

I suppose why our principal here is very

cross is because the allocations this

46

year have changed and not for the batter.

47

Open till 2017, we had a model where

children were allocated hours, depending

48

on the diagnosis, our disability,

they might have if they had autism.

49

Or if they would receive five hours

per week of extra tuition or extra

50

help, if they had done syndrome,

it was three and a half hours.

51

And around 2012, 2013, Ruairi Quinn when

he was minister for education because

52

of the recession cut those by 15%.

53

And then in 2017, the set allocation

model came about where so weird.

54

Strange kind of algorithm, which

nobody quite understands and nobody

55

can access because it's protected

from freedom of information requests.

56

Was given out to every school.

57

And weirdly enough, I don't know

how this formula or this algorithm

58

was developed, but almost every

school seemed to get roughly the

59

hours they were getting before 2017.

60

What an algorithm that it was so

clever to be able to do that based on a

61

number of criteria, which included the

child's gender, the children's gender.

62

So girls schools weren't getting as many

hours as boys schools are mixed skills.

63

You also had complex needs.

64

You also had literacy and numeracy

scores, which which was a bit scandalous

65

really at the time, it's still the

scandalous because we only started

66

sending our standardized test results

67

With the promise that they'd only

be used for statistical purposes.

68

And low and behold, they are now.

69

Even back then, they were being used

for about some of the allocations

70

now in 2024, but they have been used

for about 65% of the allocations.

71

I've been given.

72

So they're certainly not being

used for statistical purposes.

73

And of course there were a couple of other

variables within the allocation model.

74

There are including whether you're a

disadvantaged status and things like that.

75

But in 2024, so 2017 came along.

76

They were reviewed in 2019

77

And essentially what we

found out over those years.

78

I did a bit of research on this as.

79

The other is but we found at that

particularly developing skills that

80

were being absolutely screwed over

on last week's podcast, explored

81

all the statistics around that.

82

So you can have a look at this.

83

We're moving on now, because since

then the allocations were published and

84

they got rid and they caught, this is

again as always there's cuts when it

85

comes to special education in Ireland.

86

In the guise of, oh, increases, we've

87

there's never been any more resource

hours being given to children.

88

But in reality, because there are

more children with additional needs.

89

It is a cuts by stealth.

90

And I guess.

91

What really, has annoyed.

92

Most people is the area of complex needs

been just simply gone from the allocation.

93

So if you have had a school with lots of

children with complex needs you wouldn't

94

be getting the hours this time for them.

95

So 33% of schools, a third of

schools experienced a cost in

96

their allocation this year.

97

And this really has caused a lot of

consternation and a number of agencies

98

have called have been in touch about this.

99

The national principal's forum

were talking about it and they were

100

talking about the cluster games.

101

And I'll talk about that now in

a second, but a principal here

102

in Westmeath, my region is in the

Midlands and it's been without.

103

I was a NEPs psychologist

104

Our allocation is insufficient

given our school's needs.

105

And I feel so frustrated and sorry

for the children and their families

106

on a principle in Roscommon next door.

107

We're very disappointed that

pupils with complex needs were

108

not taken into account in the new

model for calculating allocations.

109

And really this a press release

from the national principal's forum

110

goes on and on about how awful the

system is ending with Laura Kelly.

111

Who's a principal and came to Kilkenny.

112

Who wrote a very long sent a statement

or sentence but just to summarize

113

it, the list is on ending about this

is about our jobs as principals.

114

The list is on ending and you

have to department field it's okay

115

to continue to load on roles and

responsibilities to principals.

116

I am utterly overwhelmed.

117

The job is not sustainable.

118

And what Laura was talking about here

was something that has become known as.

119

The cluster games, or as I know us.

120

I don't really have a name for

it, except I do, except for

121

something that's a bit rude.

122

Eh, Basically.

123

I shit show.

124

What it is if you can imagine

every principal is a pigeon.

125

And the department of education

has tossed out a few breadcrumbs.

126

Basically when the SET allocation.

127

Ours come out.

128

Principals have to fight over

the hours to make up clusters.

129

Okay.

130

Clusters of 25 hours

to make up a full post.

131

So if you're a school with 20 spare

hours, I allocated, you're desperate

132

looking for another school with

five hours to make a marriage.

133

And the trouble is with this model

and why I call it a shit show

134

rather than the cluster games.

135

Although the cluster gain is

a very good analysis because

136

it is a death match really.

137

Is that every school that goes into this,

it's trying to save a teacher, trying to

138

save a teacher from the dreaded panel.

139

And the dreaded panel is basically

a safeguard for any permanent

140

teacher who might lose their

job due to falling numbers.

141

And they get put on a panel so

they can have a permanent job in a

142

school close by apple principals.

143

Really don't like losing

teachers to the panel.

144

There's lots and lots of reasons

why they say this is true.

145

They say that they put it

invest a lot of training.

146

They invest a lot into relationships.

147

The person who's there builds up a big

relationship with the children and to

148

lose that person can be a travesty.

149

If they become a minor player,

let's say in the marriage, but what.

150

Th the impact.

151

Of principals basically fighting over

these breadcrumbs in a desperate bid

152

to become the base school is that they

will kill each other and they will

153

fight with each other and they will fall

out with each other over these hours.

154

And.

155

Really it's it just doesn't work

156

over a small amount of resources

with no no way of making it work.

157

W I developed but I didn't develop at all.

158

A teacher developed with that

with a bit of help for me.

159

A set cluster guy ag tool, which allows

schools to log in and try and find

160

other skills that might match with them.

161

But to be perfectly honest at

the What it works really well.

162

To a point it relies on Goodwill

from principals and I've argued.

163

In one of my blog posts, which

I, if you want to read at, you'll

164

find it in the show notes at that.

165

I don't think principals really,

I think what principals do is they

166

leave their principles behind they

are not very kind to each other.

167

It's a real example of the lack

of collegiality within the system.

168

The sat allocation hours and pigeon show.

169

Is really shows me the lack of

collegiality within our profession.

170

And I understand why, but I understand

the system is designed to do this, but any

171

calls or any ideas that we are collegial

with each other are absolutely on.

172

True.

173

I was I've spoken to, I would say

I've spoken to dozens of principals

174

in the last couple of weeks and

some of them quite upset because.

175

One in particular is a principal

who in, in some other parts of the

176

country, I won't say where it is.

177

It's not fair.

178

Just in case I don't want to identify

them, but basically they were just assumed

179

that their local, their neighboring

schools would form a cluster when.

180

When they looked at the list

of schools, the schools within

181

her area, they're small schools

182

.

The three of them matched exactly the 25 hours.

183

The person waited after the

bank holiday to contact them.

184

And when she rang them, I've given

away their gender there when she

185

rang and said, oh no, we're sorted.

186

We got sorted over the bank, holiday

laughter high and dry, but that's

187

the kind of stuff that's going on.

188

And I find it I find it horrible

and I don't like it and I don't

189

think we should be engaging in it.

190

I think the department of education should

be dealing with all this sort of stuff.

191

I did write a blog post called

spilling the tea on sat allocations,

192

a guide for disillusioned principals.

193

The idea of that a while as if

you were still looking for hours

194

and there are still, and this is

we're going to the third week here.

195

There's still a lot of principals

as still looking for hours,

196

looking for the scavenger hunts.

197

And I shared the app that

was done by a dark onion.

198

Who's the person who made the tool.

199

And you can have a look at that.

200

And I've given some ideas of what you

can possibly do because when you've

201

been really screwed over by your

neighbors or by your other by other

202

principals who just go off and do.

203

Their own thing.

204

I just think, This these little

tips here might help you.

205

One of them is do nothing.

206

Just let the departments

sort out your problem.

207

I think after, I think if you've

made a good stab of it, you

208

need to let the department of

education sort your problems.

209

And they do and they

can't, and I've done it.

210

And it really does work out.

211

You may end up with a part-time teacher.

212

You may even end up finding

a cluster somewhere dot.

213

That might work for you that you

didn't realize, but it will work out.

214

And my advisory was, when you

finished hazing, you're out.

215

You're a fan of your fellow principals

and getting I'm getting over the.dot of

216

the disillusionment of this whole thing.

217

You might just consider do, accepting

the fact that this is an awful thing.

218

Maybe joining me in my request.

219

To principals to stop

engaging in this nonsense.

220

To be honest.

221

I don't think people are going to, the

other thing that's come out of this.

222

As I said, was the allocation model.

223

Losing the cluster hours.

224

And a few statements came out about

dash the national principal's forum.

225

As I said, came out criticizing the

fact that they've cooked complex needs.

226

Which has made lots of 33% of schools

lose a significant amount of hours.

227

The charity inclusion Ireland has

also sat there absolutely disturbed

228

by the fact that this has happened.

229

And I also was in the newspaper,

the Irish examiner at the, by the

230

allocation of special education

teachers, which is wholly inadequate.

231

In my view.

232

So really a lot of news and

special education teaching world.

233

I'm I have to say it's been an absolute

shambles and it still remains an

234

absolute shambles and very upsetting for

principals around the country who just.

235

Couldn't find a partner.

236

And the people that are most

disadvantaged, this are inexperienced

237

principals, new principals

who haven't built up these

238

networks, who CA who aren't, who

actually trust the system still.

239

To be fair, a nice and good.

240

And obviously the other people you feel

very sorry for, and most importantly,

241

a one should say are the children

who are basically getting fewer

242

resources for their increasing needs.

243

And it really.

244

As a shambles.

245

And I think I've ranted enough

about dash I've in the newsletter.

246

I've linked several articles

around the sat allocations

247

and the criticism around it.

248

I have yet to meet a school.

249

That's happy with the allocations.

250

Let's move on and see

where we're going next.

251

We're moving on.

252

To something called gifting schools.

253

What though?

254

And.

255

Here it is how much money is being gifted

to religious bodies by the Irish state.

256

I don't know.

257

Many people who listen to this.

258

Ah, no, that I am someone who

believes there should be a complete

259

separation of church and state.

260

The reason I believe that as many

people know is because when the,

261

when a private body runs a school,

whether that's a religious body or

262

not religious body their ethos has to

permeate throughout the school day.

263

On the impact of that in 90% and actually

96% of cases is that is a religious ethos.

264

And in 90% of cases,

it's the Catholic church.

265

And in 5% of cases, it's

the church of origin.

266

So there's a Christian ethos in about

95 to 96% of schools, which means that

267

throughout the day of every school

day, Jesus is in the room with you.

268

And some of you might not think that's

a bad thing, but for someone who does

269

not worship Jesus, It's entirely.

270

at best inconvenient and maybe.

271

Just annoying really that every, so every.

272

It feels every five minutes.

273

You're having to worship someone

that you don't believe in.

274

You don't believe, you

don't believe his message.

275

And I suppose if you're a teacher

in these skills, you probably might

276

not believe in God yourself yet.

277

You're expected to be a missionary.

278

And if you don't.

279

If you're not a missionary for the

Catholic church, because you are a

280

missionary, when you work in a Catholic

primary school or in a church of

281

Ireland school or any religious school.

282

You have to impart the word of

your religion onto the children.

283

It's part.

284

If you're in a Catholic school,

you must pass on the word of Jesus.

285

And I know a lot of the Catholic.

286

People out there, the people who

represented Catholic buddies say

287

no, we're only inviting the children

to take part in the Catholic faith.

288

I don't want an invitation.

289

I'm not, and children, aren't looking

for an invitation to the Catholic faith.

290

If their parents are not

raising them as conflicts.

291

And it's really not, it's not okay

to be inviting people who aren't

292

Catholic into the Catholic faith.

293

It's I just can't.

294

It's, I can't think of an analogy, but.

295

Because it's such a bizarre thing.

296

Why would anyone think it's okay.

297

To try and try and converse

children in a public school.

298

It just, it makes no sense.

299

People probably don't see it that

way because it's so normalized.

300

99.7% of teachers in Ireland, outside.

301

That's all you often

say are white and Irish.

302

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-9:

And those that are at 95%

303

of them are Christian.

304

So a lot of this stuff is invisible.

305

To add these people who don't

think they're being missionary.

306

Sure.

307

It's only a few prayers

insured, what harm and sure.

308

We're very inclusive.

309

We allow children into the school.

310

Don't we end sure.

311

If they're sitting at the back of the

class, what are, and all that kind of

312

nonsense that go on now, the Catholic

church have survived a huge amount.

313

I would suggest.

314

For example, the big one really

they've survived systematic sexual

315

abuse of children, and they're

still allowed to run schools.

316

And I have nerdy given up on

thinking, how can we, and I'm not.

317

I've nothing against Catholics at all.

318

If people celebrate their faith

in any way, shape or form,

319

that's absolutely up to them.

320

And I have no problem with people's

celebration of faith of any sort,

321

but I don't think the institution of

the church should be running schools.

322

Forget the sexual abuse because it's

so emotive and people will excuse

323

it and all sorts of different ways.

324

But this is something that I came

across that I thought was just amazing.

325

How much that demote of money that's being

gifted by the state to religious bodies.

326

And in this article where I basically

did a freedom of information request.

327

Finding out how much money does

the state spend on capital school

328

projects, a building school buildings,

they build the schools and then they

329

basically give the building to the

Catholic church or the church body.

330

Four with few conditions.

331

Certainly no conditions that No,

no conditions have any merit.

332

I actually asked what were the conditions?

333

For a hunting it over as if there'd

be something, interesting, but

334

they're all just building relations.

335

They're construction related.

336

They can do whatever

they like and they do.

337

What they like is they

use them as missionaries.

338

They use them as someone we'll

call them indoctrination centers

339

if they wanted to be emotive.

340

But I would say their faith forming

institutions, which they are, of course,

341

the idea of a Catholic school and the

only difference between a Catholic

342

school and a school that is not conflict

is the form of forming of faith.

343

So if you go to a Jewish

school, The idea would be dirt.

344

That you would be for after you would

have faith formation in the Jewish faith.

345

And the difference between that

and a Catholic school is you'd have

346

faith formation and a Catholic faith.

347

So like that's the only difference.

348

Everything else is the same, but for

whatever reason, despite, and I mentioned

349

the national maternity hospital in

the, in this article, because if you

350

look back to the national maternity

hospital scandal I guess basically the

351

department or the state wants to build

a new maternity hospital and they were

352

going to build them on the grounds of St.

353

Vincent's hospital, which is

owned by the sisters of charity.

354

And the idea was that they

were build this sad hospital.

355

I think it was going

to cost 2 billion Euro.

356

Although I could be wrong on that figure.

357

Once that happens, they're going to

effectively give the building to the nuns

358

on a lease basis so that they would pay a

nominal fee every year after the building.

359

But at the end of the lease, the

building will belong to the nuns and

360

this made people really cross And people

houses of people took to the streets.

361

About it because they were afraid

and they were about this arrangement.

362

I didn't really, I don't know

if they minded the money.

363

I think they did a bit, but they

had what they said was the con.

364

There were concerns about possible

external interference in the operation

365

of the hospital, because you would

think they would look at schools and

366

say, but, because school buildings

are gifted back to the state and

367

religious interference certainly

happens, but that wasn't their thing.

368

They just, I think to be honest with you,

I think they have a problem with the nuns.

369

And if I think they were hunting

the priests, I don't know

370

how many people were being.

371

I wish I was.

372

I think Ireland has a very odd

relationship with the Catholic

373

church in terms of, they seem to

really dislike nuns in particular.

374

And I don't know why that is,

and maybe I'm wrong on that.

375

But there was a big thing about it,

if you see some of the posters in

376

the article I've linked to in the

thing, there's lots of signs that

377

are very disparaging about nuns.

378

That you probably wouldn't see if it was

generally about the Catholic church, but.

379

I don't know.

380

I don't know.

381

It's a bit.

382

It's a bit mad, but what I think about

whenever I see a school being built

383

is I just think there's another few

million Euro gone to the Vatican.

384

And essentially.

385

That's what happens?

386

The building.

387

Th when the department of education

build a building on the school land.

388

The state don't own the.

389

A school.

390

It is gifted to the diocese.

391

Which is a bit mad in my estimation.

392

So I wanted to find out how much it

was and the figure is roughly 500

393

million Euro in the last five years.

394

So every year it's about a hundred million

year old average that is just gifted in

395

buildings to the, to religious bodies.

396

People might say to me, oh

what about educate together?

397

And what about the other man?

398

They don't own any of the buildings.

399

It's only church bodies,

that own buildings.

400

And also, I suppose I didn't include like

the capitation grant that's given to keep,

401

not only did the department of education.

402

Sorry.

403

Give the buildings over.

404

They also add heat them and light them.

405

I keep them on upkeep them.

406

I it's bizarre.

407

It's like someone building

me a building a house.

408

Okay.

409

So a builder builds a house.

410

I say I'd like to live there.

411

And they said, okay, here you go.

412

There's a house for free.

413

And I go, thank you very much.

414

That's great.

415

I can you just pass me on

the ESB there so I can pay?

416

Oh no.

417

You don't have to pay any

of the bills in that house.

418

We're paying them for you.

419

Ah, okay.

420

Okay.

421

And do I have to do anything?

422

Oh no you don't have to do

anything at all, actually.

423

In fact if you have a religious

belief, you can insist that anyone

424

that comes into your house must pray.

425

Ah, okay.

426

I, that sounds great.

427

And and what happens.

428

If I decide.

429

That I want to leave my

house and go somewhere else.

430

I asked don't don't don't worry.

431

Simon.

432

We will rent.

433

We will pay rent to you for that.

434

That's what happens.

435

It's really weird.

436

And I can understand it.

437

Madly enough I put this

out online madly enough.

438

People were defending it, like

defending it, like I'm calling me a

439

bigot because I was questioning it.

440

If I wasn't, I really regret not saying

like the state was funding McDonald's in

441

the same way, because there was a film

there about McDonald's how they became.

442

Hi, they became but they bought all

the land are at where the restaurants

443

are being built and then just

basically cleaned the restaurants.

444

It was very, it was a really

good film if you haven't seen,

445

I can't think of the name of it.

446

But it's essentially the same model.

447

I wish I really wish I had a van

started that whole thing saying,

448

oh my gosh, can you believe it?

449

That.

450

The state is basically funding

McDonald's ration there, but

451

building McDonald's restaurants and

gifting the building to McDonald's.

452

But anyway, I didn't.

453

Ah, how do I have.

454

I am assuming the people that would

have been very upset about it, but

455

because it's the Catholic church.

456

People seem to keep, take

that very differently.

457

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-10:

I tried to explain.

458

On Twitter, because I was getting

the same questions over and over

459

again, and being called anti this

anti that and all the rest of us.

460

And, I came to the conclusion.

461

That.

462

I probably can't, I'm not going to

get through to people on this one.

463

I'm not going to succeed.

464

I feel.

465

And I could be, I don't think I'm

wrong on this, that there's this sort

466

of cognitive dissonance for most Irish

people when it comes to the Catholic

467

church, I always give the example of

Sean Moncrief, who wrote an article

468

in the Irish times about how he ticked

no religion in the census box, but.

469

He is going to allow his

daughter make her communion.

470

And his reasoning was because he isn't

anti-Catholic as if that's the only reason

471

children wouldn't make their communion.

472

I also, gave other examples.

473

I, and I'm one of them was, I'm

not gonna mention his name because.

474

But I basically mentioned

this other politician.

475

Who basically was at the protest at the

national maternity hospital and talk.

476

And he spoke quite publicly about

how his, how he doesn't want

477

us, how his daughter was born.

478

On the, on a referendum day.

479

I think it was the the

abortion referendum and how he.

480

He was talking about it, like how

he'd hope that she sees a world

481

of a quality of away from the

interference of, the Catholic church

482

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

483

And then, and then in the same

article wrote about how he sends

484

her to a Catholic school because,

I can't even remember the excuse.

485

And anyway, I pointed that one

out as well, and he actually.

486

It's very bizarre.

487

He actually messaged me then calling

me disgraceful and disgusting,

488

and then started slacking me off

because I pay for my Twitter account.

489

I felt like I was a 15 year old in school

and the schoolyard bully was Coming on to,

490

it's not the first step marred interaction

of how this particular politician.

491

I certainly have questioned him

on a number of occasions and

492

not so much so that, I suppose

I was probably became annoying.

493

So he blocked me on

Twitter because I kept.

494

Annoying him over a thing he

did when he was in government.

495

And I was never abusive.

496

I just kept pointing out the fact

that when he was giving Asia bites,

497

It's something he could have actually

solved the problem when he was in

498

government and didn't and chose not to.

499

And the reason he didn't add do

it wasn't because he couldn't.

500

It was for another reason under.

501

Getting more and more tempted

to reveal the reason why.

502

As time goes on and as nasty as he's

being I can't, I have to admit,

503

I lost a little bit of sleep over

it because I felt intimidated.

504

By him.

505

Anyway, he owned, blocked

me for 10 minutes to hurl.

506

Mad stuff at me and then consequently,

block me on anyway, God, at

507

times I sound like I'm in school.

508

It's so immature.

509

I sometimes I find.

510

Social media, it can infantalise you

a little bit when you're trying to

511

make adult conversations, you end

up, having people throw childish.

512

Nonsense at you.

513

Anyway, enough about my spots with TDS,

let's move on to the final story, which

514

I love, and this is a brilliant one.

515

It's why Scottish people

think we're a great.

516

I found add a story.

517

It wasn't a Scottish newspaper.

518

Why are Irish kids so far

ahead of Scottish pupils?

519

It's in this.

520

At P and J I think, which is a

Scottish news website of the year.

521

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-11:

This is a great story.

522

I love it.

523

It makes me remember like the obsession

with Finland that we all had for a

524

number of years, I suppose we still do.

525

We have a lot to learn from the fins,

but we have a lot to learn from lots of

526

other countries as well, but the Scots

are basically looking at why Irish kids

527

are so far ahead of Scottish peoples.

528

And they're focusing entirely

on the PISA scores because.

529

I don't know how we do it, and I'd

love to know the secret myself.

530

We seem to perform

really well in the Piza.

531

Tables, despite the huge

underinvestment in the education system.

532

So this journalist.

533

Ah, try to find out what that

reason was and do you know what

534

he did rather than, Asking.

535

Maybe people in the Irish education

system, I thought he might go

536

to the minister for education

or spokesperson New York.

537

No.

538

Instead what he did is he found

Irish people living in Scotland

539

and ask them their parents

they're not educators or anything.

540

I thought maybe they are educators.

541

I don't think they were though.

542

But they go on anyway.

543

She starts off by saying how great

we are at rugby compared to Scotland.

544

And that's another question that could

be asked, why are we so good at rugby?

545

For such a small country.

546

And I suppose you could, might

look at the education system

547

in a different way for that.

548

But let's stick to the script here.

549

Jeez.

550

I'm here.

551

Almost analyzing rugby.

552

I don't think I could

name two rugby players.

553

If you asked me, I'd say my

rugby knowledge is only dwarfed

554

by my lack of knowledge on GAA.

555

Anyway, let's see what

Scottish people think about.

556

The Irish education system one pro.

557

One person decided that teachers are much

more respected than Scottish teachers.

558

Now.

559

If you look at any headlines in the

newspapers over the last few years,

560

you will find that I would say that

is probably not true and probably

561

not why we do so well on PISA scores.

562

So an interesting us.

563

And last assessment.

564

I do think that is true.

565

We do have less assessment, but

so do the fins and so do quite a

566

lot of highly regarded countries.

567

And maybe maybe that's

maybe I'll give her one.

568

It's a point for that?

569

I think that's fair enough.

570

I thought one of the centers that

wasn't very fair here, teachers are

571

not respecting the same in Scotland.

572

Therefore, very capable students.

573

Don't go into teaching.

574

That's I don't know.

575

It's a bit harsh to say.

576

I think there's still a lot of people that

wants to go into, I think teaching is a

577

respected profession, even in Scotland

and Ireland, I'd say it's much respected.

578

Maybe.

579

I don't know.

580

They think anyway that the whole

system has gotten, it has to change.

581

At, but this is the one that

I thought was interesting.

582

It was their parents.

583

Parents.

584

Basically.

585

I take the responsibility

for the child's education.

586

Do you know that now there's

two ways of looking at that.

587

The first way is in the constitution,

parents have a right to choose whatever

588

school they want to send their child to.

589

And they are the first education now.

590

I don't really think.

591

That in, in the practice makes it

very much of a difference to anyone.

592

I think.

593

All that does is the complicates.

594

Our education system actually

makes our education system work.

595

I think.

596

We could have an even

better education system.

597

If we didn't have the system we

have, which is so fractured as

598

we've seen from the sat allocation

model and things like that.

599

And I actually think our, I think we're

good to find yourselves going down the

600

piece of tables because of the way.

601

We're treating children with additional

needs and the way we're treating.

602

Migrants the way we're treating we

w I suppose, as we become a less

603

homogenous society and we become, we are.

604

The last module Sashi for quite some time.

605

But as we've calmed it even

less and less homogenous.

606

I can see by doing nothing by

treating our migrants and by

607

teaching our children traditional.

608

And needs with contempt.

609

I would say.

610

I think we're going to find

yourself slipping down bus.

611

They basically say it's all about higher

support, high respect for teachers.

612

I just, I don't get that.

613

I don't think so.

614

I, the other thing, which

I thought was bizarre.

615

Ah, I'm probably the funniest of the

mall was we've had a taste of prosperity.

616

The Irish people, we had the Celtic tiger.

617

So we know what it's like to get

a good education there for, to

618

be rich as the rules of a tour.

619

Then another Celtic tiger has passed.

620

Where we will continue to aspire to VIG

at, to be back to those consequences.

621

So basically education equals money.

622

It's a bizarre kind of conclusion.

623

I don't know where it's.

624

They said we had a taste of the

money and suddenly we're in a bit

625

of a decline and the bubble burst.

626

But in Ireland because we've had

a taste of what life could be.

627

Kids are more driven to succeed.

628

Now.

629

I don't know.

630

How much of this is true.

631

In fact, I don't think any

of us really true at all.

632

I honestly don't know why Ireland is the.

633

I think I tell you I'll

make my educated guess.

634

As to why Ireland.

635

Has is highly performing

the piece of results.

636

And I think it's actually

because of our autonomy.

637

I think we trust our teachers and

I think whether we respect them

638

or not, I think we trust them.

639

We trusted they're doing a good job.

640

I also think that we, I don't know, I'll

tell you this in a negative way, even

641

though it's going to sound negative.

642

I think we over teach literacy.

643

At particularly, we also, I don't

know if we over teach numeracy,

644

but we over teach them literacy.

645

To a point that and reteach it in

such a way that suits the PISA tests.

646

I don't think I think if we taught in a

different way, we might score lower in

647

the PISA scores, but we might actually,

pieces of limited sort of AB test.

648

I think.

649

When you see who's number one in there.

650

And that's one of the

Korean career in Republic.

651

I think isn't Brunner is it's

Singapore, but it's definitely a

652

country where you wouldn't want

an education system like that.

653

Where you have 30 plus children

crammed into a room and cram

654

teaching them all the time.

655

They're the schools that

are succeeding the most.

656

And I don't know, I prefer to

have a system that succeeds

657

for different reasons.

658

I think maybe we're good at

relationships and naturally.

659

Maybe that's something that we're,

we bring into our schools, but look.

660

I'm as bad as these parents in

this article, making these gases.

661

Rady and I suppose what I should be

doing is leaving them to the experts.

662

Both.

663

As I said, I think.

664

It's great.

665

They think we're gracious.

666

I have a taste of what people in Finland

must feel when the Irish were going

667

over saying my goodness, what's it

like to be a teacher in Finland while

668

the Scottish wants to learn from us.

669

And they're very welcome to come

over here, but they'll have to

670

get back into the EU so they

can do those Erasmus things.

671

What a pity Brexit, ah, Happened for them.

672

Anyway that are there, the three

things I, as three stories I

673

wanted to bring to your attention.

674

The sat allocations, gifting schools to

the various church bodies and why the

675

Scottish people think we're a great.

676

If you are interested in reading.

677

More of my thoughts.

678

I, you should subscribe to my newsletter.

679

And you can do that by going

to anseo.net/subscribe.

680

This podcast as well is available on

all your favorite podcasting platforms.

681

And I would love to hear your thoughts

and you can contact me at Simon out

682

of Shots on Nash or if you're on

Twitter still, I think there are

683

people are leaving their droves I'm

I probably will too, at some point.

684

If if you do, I'm still there anyway, and

you can DM me and I'd be happy to charge,

685

or you can join in the conversation if

you wish that's it for me for this week.

686

Thanks so much for listening.

687

I'll be back again in a couple

of weeks with more news up from

688

the Irish education system.

689

And look forward to talking to you

then all the very best bye-bye.