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Self-leadership
Episode 611th January 2024 • How to Take the Lead • Lee Griffith and Carrie-Ann Wade
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What is self-leadership?

Why is it important?

How do you practice it?

These are all questions we discuss in this episode of How To Take The Lead.

Self-leadership is about how you show up as a leader and this can mean many things. It might be the boundaries you set and communicate. Perhaps it is how you are using your time and what this demonstrates to those around you. And it could be you need to prioritise your wellbeing.

Creating the conditions for your success - whatever you have determined that to be - requires you to be intentional in your self-leadership. This episode will give you practical advice and tips to support your self-leadership journey.

Resources and helpful links

About How to Take the Lead

How to Take the Lead is a show exploring all things leadership.

Every episode we explore a different part of life as a leader, questioning everything we've ever learnt and sharing a few of our own stories along the way.

If you want to learn how to do leadership your own way, join hosts Lee Griffith and Carrie-Ann Wade as they debunk myths, tackle stereotypes and generally put the leadership world to rights.

Get involved

If you enjoyed this episode why not subscribe to the podcast. We would love it if you left us a rating or review and feel free to share the link to this episode with anyone else you think would find it interesting.

If you want to watch this episode, subscribe to our YouTube channel to make sure you don't miss out.

And you can be a part of our Substack community, where you can get extra bonus goodies, network with a community of leaders and get direct access to us both.

We're also over on Instagram for more behind the scenes, news and views.

Plus if you want to work with us to challenge and change leadership in your organisation get in touch by dropping us an email howtotakethelead@gmail.com or DM us on the socials.

Transcripts

Lee Griffith:

You think back to the early days you'll take the

Lee Griffith:

lead, we'd stop on a cocktail and we'd put the words in writes

Lee Griffith:

and now I stop on a cocktail and I'm fast asleep on the sofa

Lee Griffith:

within about five minutes. Welcome to how to take the lead

Lee Griffith:

the podcast where we challenge the myths and stereotypes of

Lee Griffith:

what it means to be a leader today, and help you to succeed

Lee Griffith:

in post without compromise.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm Lee Griffith and I'm Carrie Ann

Lee Griffith:

Wade. And together we will be your guides question everything

Lee Griffith:

we've ever learned about leadership, sharing our

Lee Griffith:

experiences along the way and inspiring you to make a real

Lee Griffith:

impact in your role visit how

Lee Griffith:

to take the lead.com For show notes past

Lee Griffith:

episodes and join our community

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: enjoy this episode

Lee Griffith:

welcome in the giggles listeners do not need to know what the

Lee Griffith:

start of trying to record this episode is felt like for the two

Lee Griffith:

of us. But let's crack on. Just that was almost that newsreader

Lee Griffith:

moment when that's what I was doing right.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to this episode of how to take the lead

Lee Griffith:

with me Carrie-Ann and the lovely Lee. Hello, Lee. How the

Lee Griffith:

devil are you?

Lee Griffith:

I'm I'm okay. I am I wish I was like turning up

Lee Griffith:

with the yay, go 2024 We've got this you can manage anything

Lee Griffith:

vibes. But um, but listener, I'm going to be honest, I'm not

Lee Griffith:

feeling it. I'm a bit tired. I've registered it's gonna be

Lee Griffith:

quite relevant this this episode. Because whilst I do try

Lee Griffith:

to practice all the things we're probably going to preach today.

Lee Griffith:

Even then it can still all go a bit a bit awry. It just needs a

Lee Griffith:

bit of rice sometimes doesn't it? And and you know what? I'm

Lee Griffith:

loving what you are practicing. They're

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: being open, transparent and honest. So

Lee Griffith:

you're doing all the things that we say we want leaders to do. So

Lee Griffith:

thank you for sharing. And sorry to hear that you're feeling a

Lee Griffith:

bit jaded. I too am feeling a bit lackluster on the energy

Lee Griffith:

front. I'd love to say it was too much partying, but it

Lee Griffith:

absolutely isn't.

Lee Griffith:

No, no. What is a party at that age. Now, you, you

Lee Griffith:

think back to the early days, you would take the lead, we'd

Lee Griffith:

stop on a cocktail and we'd put the voting rights and now I stop

Lee Griffith:

on a cocktail and I'm fast asleep on the sofa within about

Lee Griffith:

five minutes.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: No cocktails for us. I've got my cup of tea

Lee Griffith:

at the ready not a g&t to record this episode. Anyhow, this isn't

Lee Griffith:

what the listeners have tuned in to Aris talking about. But

Lee Griffith:

before we get into the good stuff of this episode, I'm just

Lee Griffith:

going to remind people where you can find us engage with us, tell

Lee Griffith:

us what you think leave us ratings or reviews. So we are on

Lee Griffith:

all of your favorite podcast platforms. So whichever is your

Lee Griffith:

desired listening platform of choice, you can find us there,

Lee Griffith:

you can visit the website how to take lead.com where you can sign

Lee Griffith:

up to our substack community where you can get engaged in

Lee Griffith:

conversations with other like minded leaders. And if you are a

Lee Griffith:

paid up member of that substack community, with every episode,

Lee Griffith:

you get some extra special exclusive content with prompts

Lee Griffith:

and tools and tips and resources and all sorts of things to help

Lee Griffith:

you to actually put into practice some of the things that

Lee Griffith:

we have talked about in the episode. And for those of you

Lee Griffith:

who are dulcet tones or not enough, and you'd like to see

Lee Griffith:

our faces, we are also over on YouTube. And of course we are on

Lee Griffith:

Instagram, if you want to engage with us on the socials. Have I

Lee Griffith:

forgotten anything? Lee?

Lee Griffith:

No, no, I think that was pretty, pretty robust

Lee Griffith:

in terms of housekeeping.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you very much say housekeeping done,

Lee Griffith:

let's get on to the topic for this episode of how to take the

Lee Griffith:

lead. And it is something that I think we have referenced before

Lee Griffith:

in other episodes of the podcast. But I'm not sure how

Lee Griffith:

much of a full and well rounded conversation we've had about it.

Lee Griffith:

But I wanted us to focus a bit of time and energy on talking

Lee Griffith:

about self leadership today. And I think it's a term that we're

Lee Griffith:

hearing a bit more of now. Self leadership is a thing. And I

Lee Griffith:

just thought it would be helpful for us to talk about what we

Lee Griffith:

think self leadership actually means what that looks like, and

Lee Griffith:

why it matters. So that was the first question I was going to

Lee Griffith:

pose Lee for listeners of this episode. What actually is self

Lee Griffith:

leadership? And when you look it up, it's really interesting

Lee Griffith:

because if you Google self leadership, so I did a bit of a

Lee Griffith:

Li and put it in Google. There are actually all sorts of

Lee Griffith:

different definitions of self leadership. So for the context

Lee Griffith:

of us having this conversation, how would you describe self

Lee Griffith:

leadership?

Lee Griffith:

So for me in the context of being at work, I

Lee Griffith:

always say it's how are you creating the right conditions

Lee Griffith:

for either high performance or to be successful, however you

Lee Griffith:

might define that success to be. So I think for me, and I love a

Lee Griffith:

bit of self leadership, it's one of the three things that I focus

Lee Griffith:

on in the work that I do with my clients. And I always say, it's

Lee Griffith:

all the stuff that you perceive to be leadership for others, but

Lee Griffith:

doing that for yourself. And it starts in a premise that you

Lee Griffith:

can't lead others well, if you don't know or can't lead

Lee Griffith:

yourself to begin with, it's that it's almost like, you know,

Lee Griffith:

when you're in an aeroplane, and they say, you've got to do your

Lee Griffith:

oxygen mask first, before helping others. That's how I see

Lee Griffith:

self leadership, you can't lead others if you don't know how to

Lee Griffith:

lead yourself well. So there's a whole load of stuff in that

Lee Griffith:

which I'm sure we'll get into what actually makes up your self

Lee Griffith:

leadership style. But as a headline, I think it's all about

Lee Griffith:

the conditions you're creating. And it goes hand in hand with

Lee Griffith:

personal leadership strategy, which we've spoken about in a

Lee Griffith:

previous episode, and your communication style. Those are

Lee Griffith:

the three things that I think are completely like inter woven

Lee Griffith:

linked cocked bucketed,

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: whichever Slayer action you want to use,

Lee Griffith:

but I love that, and I absolutely loved what you said.

Lee Griffith:

And it really resonated with me, Lee about, it's all the things

Lee Griffith:

that you do to lead others, but doing it for yourself. I haven't

Lee Griffith:

actually paraphrase that perfectly, because you said it

Lee Griffith:

much more eloquently than that. But absolutely. And it's a bit

Lee Griffith:

like that age old saying, isn't it about taking your own advice,

Lee Griffith:

and it's often easy to give everyone else really good

Lee Griffith:

advice, but much harder to take it for yourself. So there's

Lee Griffith:

something for me about being intentional in that space,

Lee Griffith:

around creating those conditions, and putting things

Lee Griffith:

in place that enable you to feel like you're taking some level of

Lee Griffith:

control over that self leadership. So I think that's a

Lee Griffith:

really helpful context to kind of frame the conversation today.

Lee Griffith:

And you specifically mentioned, actually, when you started that

Lee Griffith:

conversation about self leadership for you in the

Lee Griffith:

workplace means, and I appreciate that some level of

Lee Griffith:

self leadership you can do in your personal life as well. But

Lee Griffith:

I was wondering, why does self leadership matter in the

Lee Griffith:

workplace? What's, you know, what's its significance in that

Lee Griffith:

particular settings? Obviously, that's where we're talking about

Lee Griffith:

being a leader in that professional space?

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, well, I think it matters, because how

Lee Griffith:

you show up matters as a leader. So if you're turning up and

Lee Griffith:

you're chaotic, in the way that you work, you're going to create

Lee Griffith:

stress and chaos amongst your teams. If you don't have

Lee Griffith:

boundaries, you're probably not going to respect boundaries of

Lee Griffith:

others, which can cause resentment, and erodes trust. If

Lee Griffith:

you don't look after yourself, you're gonna burn out or

Lee Griffith:

variation of that eventually. So everything that you do to

Lee Griffith:

yourself, sets a tone and sets a precedent for your team. And it

Lee Griffith:

gives a really strong message about your expectations and

Lee Griffith:

standards, and basically contributes to the culture that

Lee Griffith:

you're creating. And so that's why I think it is so so

Lee Griffith:

important, because it's it says so much.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Absolutely setting the tone actually was

Lee Griffith:

exactly the the phrase that I'd written down when I was thinking

Lee Griffith:

about this having this conversation, it's that role

Lee Griffith:

model. And isn't it other people around what behaviors are

Lee Griffith:

acceptable standards, all of that kind of stuff in the

Lee Griffith:

workplace. And I'm sure we've all got examples of and probably

Lee Griffith:

more examples of the bad times than the good times, in fact,

Lee Griffith:

whereby, you know, I recall working for a leader, I think

Lee Griffith:

I've used this example before, back in the day of the

Lee Griffith:

Blackberry, when the little light used to flash when you got

Lee Griffith:

an email, and there was almost some sort of unwritten rule that

Lee Griffith:

had been created, by the way that that leader operated and

Lee Griffith:

the tone that that leaders set that if if they decided to send

Lee Griffith:

you an email at 930, at night that you would respond. And

Lee Griffith:

actually, you know, there was almost this culture within the

Lee Griffith:

team that when when they contact us at hours, even if we're not

Lee Griffith:

on call, we better respond, because otherwise tomorrow is

Lee Griffith:

going to be such a hideous day because the way that leader will

Lee Griffith:

treat us will be really bad. So there is something in there

Lee Griffith:

isn't there about that role modeling, but it's so easy to

Lee Griffith:

find the bad examples and sometimes harder to find the

Lee Griffith:

good ones. Yeah, well, the

Lee Griffith:

flip of that is I do I am noticing more and more

Lee Griffith:

often with people's email signatures. Was this to the

Lee Griffith:

email signatures where they go, you know, I might be sending

Lee Griffith:

this outside of normal working hours, but I don't expect you to

Lee Griffith:

respond outside of your normal working hours. That's really

Lee Griffith:

clear about I'm doing what works for me, but that doesn't mean

Lee Griffith:

that works for you. similarly, there was a chief exec that I

Lee Griffith:

was in touch with. And I got a auto response back when I sent

Lee Griffith:

him an email. And it told me that he only checks his emails a

Lee Griffith:

couple of times a day. And this wasn't the most effective way to

Lee Griffith:

get ahold of him. And therefore, you know, you can either wait

Lee Griffith:

for a response, but if it's urgent, this is how you get in

Lee Griffith:

touch. And I think it's that real clarity. It sets the

Lee Griffith:

boundaries, it's clarity in your communication, it's about the

Lee Griffith:

standard that you set and that you expect from others. And if

Lee Griffith:

it's, I do think, I feel like I'm more aware and noticing it

Lee Griffith:

more and more from people.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I love

Lee Griffith:

that actually about the out of office like auto response, I

Lee Griffith:

think I might give that a go. That's really, I really like

Lee Griffith:

that. That's good. And, and for me is well, it's like all my

Lee Griffith:

ANOVA go on properly to talk about some practical things that

Lee Griffith:

you can do, because you've set boundary setting. And that's

Lee Griffith:

something that I'm really passionate about, and a big part

Lee Griffith:

for me around around my own self leadership and then role

Lee Griffith:

modeling that to other people. But I also think there's

Lee Griffith:

something in there for me around the wellbeing piece. So while we

Lee Griffith:

are talking about self leadership mattering in the

Lee Griffith:

workplace, I do think it matters because it is about your own

Lee Griffith:

well being but also the well being of the people that you're

Lee Griffith:

leading, and actually how some of what you might be

Lee Griffith:

demonstrating through self leadership is about

Lee Griffith:

prioritizing, you know, personal well being maybe your mental

Lee Griffith:

health over some of the other things that certain leaders

Lee Griffith:

organizations might deem to be more important. And as you've

Lee Griffith:

said, that all impacts on the culture and the tone of your

Lee Griffith:

organization, that then as we've talked about, in other episodes

Lee Griffith:

of how to take the lead goes on to influence performance, and

Lee Griffith:

all of that kind of stuff. So hugely important for sure. I was

Lee Griffith:

going to move this on a little bit, though, because we've given

Lee Griffith:

a couple of examples about what self leadership might kind of

Lee Griffith:

mean, and why it matters, but is self leadership something that

Lee Griffith:

can be learned because I think with all of these things that we

Lee Griffith:

kind of coiner, I'm going to do a li now dualism coined a phrase

Lee Griffith:

or coined a term for and self leadership feels like a term

Lee Griffith:

that's maybe kind of come from that self care space, which has

Lee Griffith:

been quite popular way to describe a certain way of being

Lee Griffith:

is self leadership, something that people can learn? Or is it

Lee Griffith:

something that kind of, you have to sort of have to be about more

Lee Griffith:

naturally in order to demonstrate it? So yes, I

Lee Griffith:

think it's something you can learn. But I

Lee Griffith:

think it's also something that's always a work in progress,

Lee Griffith:

you're never perfect at it, because you adapt and change

Lee Griffith:

your context in which you operate in adapt and change all

Lee Griffith:

of these things, almost like shifting sands around you, which

Lee Griffith:

means you're constantly having to check in and evolve and

Lee Griffith:

understand. And so, yeah, I think it is something that you

Lee Griffith:

learn, I think, is also inextricably linked with your

Lee Griffith:

vulnerabilities and where you feel most exposed in the way

Lee Griffith:

that you lead. And therefore, it requires you to have some

Lee Griffith:

courage to work on it. And to tackle it, you need that self

Lee Griffith:

awareness, you need to have acceptance of where there are

Lee Griffith:

challenges and areas of opportunity for growth, you need

Lee Griffith:

to have real practical management approach to tackle

Lee Griffith:

some of that stuff. And yeah, you need to have a growth

Lee Griffith:

mindset. So yes, I think you can learn it, but you need to come

Lee Griffith:

in the right headspace to accept that it is something that you

Lee Griffith:

need to constantly work on. Yeah. And I find it interesting,

Lee Griffith:

because a lot of what I said at the beginning, this is something

Lee Griffith:

that I work on with a lot of my clients, but I would say 90% of

Lee Griffith:

the time when the clients come to me regarding they don't come

Lee Griffith:

to me and I want to work on myself leadership, they'll come

Lee Griffith:

with a problem or an issue where they if they feel like they're

Lee Griffith:

not making the impact that they want to make in their

Lee Griffith:

organization in their team. And it will whittle down to self

Lee Griffith:

leadership in one way or other strategy and communication as

Lee Griffith:

well. But it we always tend to be working on this constantly.

Lee Griffith:

And it's how they manage their stress and the pressure of the

Lee Griffith:

role. It's it's about them getting clarity in what they

Lee Griffith:

need to do in their role and what they're asking of other

Lee Griffith:

people in the role. So yeah, it's it's an all encompassing

Lee Griffith:

thing that you need to embrace. And it's probably that was a

Lee Griffith:

long way.

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: And it's back to that point you made about it.

Lee Griffith:

It's those three things coming together, isn't it the strategy,

Lee Griffith:

the communication and the self leadership? So it isn't really a

Lee Griffith:

surprise to me when I hear you say actually, when you whittle

Lee Griffith:

it all down, the issues that you're working with with your

Lee Griffith:

clients can often come down to some sort of need in that self

Lee Griffith:

leadership space for that growth and that development and I am in

Lee Griffith:

agreement with you and interests. Sit in what you say

Lee Griffith:

about that growth mindset? Because I absolutely do think

Lee Griffith:

self leadership is something that can be learned. But it

Lee Griffith:

probably comes more naturally to some people than it does to

Lee Griffith:

others. If you are a person who, you know, is naturally curious,

Lee Griffith:

naturally wanting to constantly grow and evolve and develop

Lee Griffith:

yourself, and if you're a person who's maybe not as open to that,

Lee Griffith:

then you will probably find kind of thinking about self

Lee Griffith:

leadership a bit more challenging, and perhaps a bit

Lee Griffith:

more uncomfortable. And you talked about it's actually

Lee Griffith:

having that insight, isn't it really into the need to actually

Lee Griffith:

self lead and to grow and develop in that space. So

Lee Griffith:

without that insight, and that open mindedness, it probably

Lee Griffith:

will feel more difficult and like something that sounds like

Lee Griffith:

quite an alien thing to people. But I'm very hopeful that

Lee Griffith:

listeners of how to take the lead are in that growth mindset.

Lee Griffith:

And that's what they're, they're listening to the podcast, but

Lee Griffith:

so I was No, no, I was gonna say, and it does, it

Lee Griffith:

does feed back into the bigger question around when we when we

Lee Griffith:

say, you know, what is a leader and showing up as a good leader?

Lee Griffith:

And are you a leader, if you're not exhibiting certain

Lee Griffith:

attributes, and say that that self awareness, self growth,

Lee Griffith:

agenda almost is is a key part of being a lead? Or if you're

Lee Griffith:

lacking that, then do you have the quality to be a good leader?

Lee Griffith:

Is the question isn't

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: it and it's that openness and transparency

Lee Griffith:

around that isn't it and I was saying earlier, it's it's easy

Lee Griffith:

to pick out all the times you've had bad leaders or challenging

Lee Griffith:

things have been happening. And it's hard to pick out the good,

Lee Griffith:

you know, more of the good things, particularly in this

Lee Griffith:

space. But I do recall working for a chief executive who

Lee Griffith:

absolutely, what I loved about working with them was that they

Lee Griffith:

were, they had the real insight. And they were really honest

Lee Griffith:

about the things that they found really difficult. And one of the

Lee Griffith:

things that they found really difficult was because they they

Lee Griffith:

got very operational, but that actually go, I know, I'm being

Lee Griffith:

too operational here. Because I have a tendency to move into

Lee Griffith:

that space when I personally feel stressed, because I like to

Lee Griffith:

feel that I'm in control. And I thought, well, even if they've

Lee Griffith:

not managed to always crack the fact that they're becoming a bit

Lee Griffith:

operational. The fact that they've actually recognized that

Lee Griffith:

in themselves as an area where they need to develop and they

Lee Griffith:

have that insight is a really good sign that they are somebody

Lee Griffith:

who is trying to practice self leadership. So there are good

Lee Griffith:

examples out there, it's just think sometimes easier to latch

Lee Griffith:

on to the to the more challenging one. But for me,

Lee Griffith:

it's definitely back to that point about being intentional in

Lee Griffith:

that space, really, like it's not something that just happens

Lee Griffith:

by chance, you don't know, it's just by coincidence that I'm

Lee Griffith:

focused on self leadership, I think you have to be really

Lee Griffith:

intentional and focused in that space.

Lee Griffith:

And because there are so many edits, as I said,

Lee Griffith:

right at the beginning, there are so many things that can make

Lee Griffith:

up your self leadership, there might be some stuff that you've,

Lee Griffith:

that feels pretty natural to you. And comes comes as a second

Lee Griffith:

nature, and then the things that you need to lean into. So you

Lee Griffith:

might be really clear on this is my leadership style. And this is

Lee Griffith:

my approach and my values and what I stand for. And you might

Lee Griffith:

have really poor boundaries, you might be a people pleaser, and

Lee Griffith:

that's, that's an area you've got to work on. You might be

Lee Griffith:

working in the weeds, and then that's demonstrated through

Lee Griffith:

micromanaging people and not being clear on what your setup

Lee Griffith:

is. And the type of schedule and rhythm that you work to. It

Lee Griffith:

might be that you're not that clear in how you're

Lee Griffith:

communicating said, but you might be clear on your

Lee Griffith:

boundaries, but you're not actually communicating it to

Lee Griffith:

someone. So there's so many different angles in which you

Lee Griffith:

come at it when you are looking at that self leadership piece.

Lee Griffith:

And some you'll be you'll be naturally great at and others

Lee Griffith:

will be a constant work in progress. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: the people pleasing and boundary setting is

Lee Griffith:

what really resonates with me. And it's something that I talk a

Lee Griffith:

lot about with people that I mentor. And interestingly, it

Lee Griffith:

seems to be the biggest game changer for people when they're

Lee Griffith:

struggling with self belief or confidence or having the impact

Lee Griffith:

that you talked about wanting to have in their team or

Lee Griffith:

organization or about really being able to demonstrate their

Lee Griffith:

value quite a lot a bit seems to come back with the people that I

Lee Griffith:

work with to that boundary setting bit and like you say

Lee Griffith:

some of it is the How comfortable do you feel in

Lee Griffith:

setting the boundary and some of it is about are you actually

Lee Griffith:

communicating to other people what those boundaries are, so

Lee Griffith:

you can really establish them and as a slight digression I

Lee Griffith:

actually saw something on social media earlier with Sharon Stone,

Lee Griffith:

talking about the fact that when she was what this is how she

Lee Griffith:

describes it, she said when I was a people pleaser, everybody

Lee Griffith:

helped me, like, everybody liked me. As soon as I started to put

Lee Griffith:

boundaries in place, less and less people liked me. But

Lee Griffith:

actually, I was okay with that, because other parts of my life

Lee Griffith:

became richer for me for having put those boundaries in place.

Lee Griffith:

So I think sometimes in that self leadership space, whether

Lee Griffith:

it's boundary setting or something else, you sometimes

Lee Griffith:

have to be okay with sitting in the discomfort of not quite

Lee Griffith:

getting it right, or working out what it is that you need to do,

Lee Griffith:

to progress. So we've started, I think, to work into this space a

Lee Griffith:

little bit now about some practicalities, because you've

Lee Griffith:

given a few examples working in the weeds boundary setting. And

Lee Griffith:

so I wondered, really, if you could start to describe what

Lee Griffith:

self leadership might look like in your daily life as a leader,

Lee Griffith:

because I think it feels like quite a grand term. And we've

Lee Griffith:

talked about needing insight and the opportunity to reflect and

Lee Griffith:

understand where you might, you know, need to do more in that

Lee Griffith:

self leadership space where you might naturally be doing okay.

Lee Griffith:

And I sort of thought practically, if you were

Lee Griffith:

listening to this, and self leadership is something that

Lee Griffith:

you've maybe not come across before, it might be quite hard

Lee Griffith:

to think about what that looks like for you as a leader. So

Lee Griffith:

have you got any thoughts or descriptions you can kind of

Lee Griffith:

give us as to what self leadership looks like in your

Lee Griffith:

daily life as a leader?

Lee Griffith:

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That was fairly likely, I

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: certainly have carry on, you've asked the right

Lee Griffith:

person.

Lee Griffith:

It's like a blue pizza. It's so fun. For me, I

Lee Griffith:

think. And I was thinking about this earlier. And has it changed

Lee Griffith:

when I left my corporate world and now run my own business or,

Lee Griffith:

or have my self leadership approaches been similar, but

Lee Griffith:

just the outcomes and outputs of change. And I think it's

Lee Griffith:

probably the latter. So at the heart of it is obviously who I

Lee Griffith:

am, what my what my style is how I want to be, and people to

Lee Griffith:

interact with me what they're going to get from me when they

Lee Griffith:

interact with me. So friendly, hopefully, that's how I come

Lee Griffith:

across, not too serious, but I will kind of call out the BS

Lee Griffith:

when when I hear it. And I can be quite direct in that effect.

Lee Griffith:

My values hopefully shine through, particularly integrity

Lee Griffith:

and authenticity, and all of that. So I've got my kind of who

Lee Griffith:

I am as a person, then I've got the, how do I approach work? So

Lee Griffith:

for me, that is, what's the type of work that I undertake? Who

Lee Griffith:

are the clients that I like to work with? Where do I want to

Lee Griffith:

invest my energy and attention day in day out in the corporate

Lee Griffith:

world that could be going back to that leadership strategy

Lee Griffith:

conversation that we had in a previous episode, the types of

Lee Griffith:

things that I really enjoyed and excelled versus what I didn't

Lee Griffith:

think I was that great at so clarity in that part. How I

Lee Griffith:

manage my day to day nurse, because I think that's a really

Lee Griffith:

important thing. So the boundaries around what days I

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work, I'm really clear on what am I working days in my

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business? And what aren't? What are my client facing days in my

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business? And when do I work kind of behind the scenes? What

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are the hours that I work, what's in and out of scope of

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the work that I do with clients and being clear with them from

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the outset so that I'm setting that context and clarity around

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what they can expect from me at what point and sticking to that

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if they try and challenge it in a really nice way. It's about my

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self care. So how I look after myself how I make sure I'm

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taking regular breaks, I'm eating well, I'm exercising

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again, when I was in my corporate world and I see this

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with some of the clients that I don't talk to. It's all well and

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good. You working really long hours, and being the first in

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the office and the last to leave and never taken a break and

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think it's you know, Hero mentality because you've walked

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down a sandwich and giving yourself indigestion but What's

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that telling other people? Yeah, and when you when you behave

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like that

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Carrie-Ann Wade: yeah, as well as telling other people that

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that's the expectation you have of how they'll behave that

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you're potentially doing yourself a disservice because

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actually that can be perceived as you've been some days not

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really that in control and can't manage their workplace and their

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priorities in the sort of focus say normal whatever normal is

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like the the normal hours or you know, way in which other people

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would do it. So absolutely that hero mentality is something that

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I've do really struggled with and I see a lot you know, with

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leaders that I work with in the comms profession if I'm honest,

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like breathing breathing I'm yeah doing like how busy I Yeah,

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and all of that, you know, that's not, you're not

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doing anyone any favors by saying how busy you are with

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time. It just shows you probably not really in control of what

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you're what you're working on, or you don't have your

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boundaries in place. See,

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Carrie-Ann Wade: and it can be quite disrespectful to other

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people actually, if you're coming across like that person

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who's always super busy, but too busy for you. Because I've got

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all these really important things to do. It can be very

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disrespectful of other people who might need some of your time

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and energy and knowledge for stuff. But you're just far, far,

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far too busy to, to give it to them. So I can see that. Yeah,

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got a lot of downforce to operate on that way.

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So I take the kind of who I am, how I'm showing up

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how I'm looking after myself, as the three things that I'm

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constantly checking in, and it is a constant check in is

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bringing awareness to all those parts, and bringing awareness to

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my, the emotional kind of intelligence part, how am I

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making other people feel? How do I feel? And is that something

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that I'm happy with? Does it feel aligned with what I'm

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striving to do? And

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Carrie-Ann Wade: do you know what I think you saying it, and

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we love, we're a singer threes today, I feel like you know who

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you are, how you're showing up, and how you're taking care of

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yourself is a really nice, fairly simple way to try and

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explain that. But I think it can be really easy for some leaders

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to feel totally comfortable in the space of who I am, because

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they've probably done a lot of work on personal values and all

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of that kind of stuff. But actually probably a bit more

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challenging in that space of how am I showing up? But also, how

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am I taking care of myself. And when you were talking there, it

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was making me think in that How am I showing up space about, I

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can already see that there might be people listening go? Well,

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it's really easy to show up in the way that these just

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described because she runs her own business. And she works for

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herself. And she has that autonomy and freedom of choice.

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And really easily get sucked into this space of like, I work

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for the big corporation or whatever. And I work for someone

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else, even though I'm a leader. And I don't have the opportunity

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to do that. But I would really challenge people, particularly

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those in leadership positions. But I think everyone to some

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level has a degree of autonomy around how they spend their

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working day, there will always be things that we are required

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to do and deliver. But the way in which we choose to do that we

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do have a level of control over and appreciate that varying

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degrees may be dependent on what your role is. But absolutely you

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can be choosing which meetings are of most benefit for you to

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be present at and turning down the meetings were absolutely

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there's no value add for you being there for you or for other

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people in the room. But some of that requires maybe, again, back

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in that uncomfy space, having some challenging conversations,

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because you're not just saying yes to everything, you're making

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some choices about how you are operating. So I was really

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intrigued by what you said about like kind of managing yourself

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and actually how you operate on a day to day basis. Because I

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think there would definitely be some people who would be more

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comfortable saying, Well, I don't have a choice. And I

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genuinely don't believe that that's true.

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But it's how you you know, if thinking about and

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you're right on the organizational front, it is

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different. Obviously, it's easier for me, running my own

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business, what I choose to do and how I choose to engage. But

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even when I worked in corporate and the work I do now when I'm

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supporting leaders to go through this process for themselves and

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for them to determine. And it's simple things like how am I

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given permission to my PA to be a better gatekeeper for me and

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to filter things because I'm being pulled into the weeds and

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people are trying to bypass process and procedure to come to

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me because they'll think I'll come and rescue. So if I've got

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clarity in what it is I'm trying to achieve, how am I enabling

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those around me to be supportive and give them permission to do

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the jobs that they need to do? When I when I worked in

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corporate, I'd be doing things like putting together not

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putting together putting aside half day every now and then

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where I would work just on strategy stuff. And I've seen

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many chief execs do that where they'll they'll spend a couple

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of hours, whether it's once a week, once a fortnight, where

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they are not at dinos closed door or they might not be on

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site, but they're doing that bigger picture thinking that

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only they can do. I used to put buffers around my meetings so

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that people couldn't just bounce me from one thing to another to

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another. And I'd be really grumpy about you know, if I

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wasn't getting my food.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: He's really friendly apart from when she's

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not had her lunch.

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But I would be you know, how am I finding time to

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get up and have a walk about and go and get some food and yeah,

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of course I would just sit over Sit and eat my lunch at the desk

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like most people do. At some point, sometimes that was free

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choice. And I would just be reading newspaper or catching up

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on something that was a different type of thinking, from

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the drudgery of the day to day. Sometimes I'd be making sure I

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was going out or going to sit in the canteen because I wanted to

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be more visible. And people see that I wasn't always just sat on

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my desk. So these are choices you get to make

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Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely and and you don't get to make them

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just because you're a leader. So some of the things you talked

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about, you know, sometimes people operate in chaos, and

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that that's not a good sign. And that's something that from a

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self leadership point of view you need to work on, it's really

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small changes. But really practical things have helped me

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to feel less chaotic in my working life and feel like I'm

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exercising some level of control. So I've completely

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changed the way that I write my to do list. So I used to be the

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queen of one massive, great big long list where something might

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randomly be crossed off in the middle of it. But I've added 10

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things on the bottom, and it's like never ending and now I do

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mining columns where I've got like my five minute jobs, my

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sort of half an hour tasks that need a bit more input from me.

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And then I've got like my projects, which require more

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time. And I couple that with time blocking in my diary for

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all of these different things. So like you say, you can't just

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bounce me in and out of meetings, because I blocked out

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an hour to do two of my 30 minute tasks on that day,

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because I know I need to get them done or have in my three

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non negotiables this week that I have to achieve, which I will

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prioritize over anything else that comes in that week. So

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there, there are lots of really practical things you can do, I

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think, to just help you manage yourself in a way that you are

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showing up in the workplace. But as you say, also role model to

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others, that it's okay for them to do that as well. And I think

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for me, that's a really important part of it. So while

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we are talking about self leadership and doing it for you

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today, I do think those points we made earlier about what time

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that sets in your organization, how you role model to others is

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really important, because that is about the culture that you

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start to create for sure.

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And I think it's even you we often talk about,

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you know, where's leadership going to go how a workplace

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changing the fact that you've got multi generations now,

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people are going to take different things in the way that

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you behave and act. And the fact that people may be working from

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home or working in a more flexible environment. Again,

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boundaries might look different ways of working might look

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different. How you look after yourself might be different.

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Because you actually you might need to physically get away from

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your desk, if you just sat on Zoom calls all day, getting up

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and about and saying that's okay.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah. And there's something you mentioned

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earlier, and it was making me think about it. And he said

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about that flex based on different generations. But also,

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like things flex, because things different things happen in your

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organization, or in your role as a leader that you're not always

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going to have control over. But you might need to be intentional

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about how you choose to manage. And you know, some of that might

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be about how you're showing up. But some of it might also be

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about looking after yourself. And I know we've talked before

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about, you know, times when organizations are in crisis or

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sort of long term crisis and leaders feel like they just have

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to keep going and keep going and keep going. But actually that

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that bit that's more about self care is really important, isn't

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it, take a break, be able to breathe, reflect, like, have

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that opportunity to step away from something because

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fundamentally or be better in the long run for you to do that.

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So I guess I'm back back a bit to that hero mentality that we

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were talking about. But I think that kind of chunking it into

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the three is a really good way to start to look and assess kind

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of the areas where you're, you might be doing really well, but

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the areas where there's still a need for development. And think

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about the really practical things that you can put in place

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in your daily life as a leader. So I just noticed how long we've

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been talking for. And I knew this would be something that we

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would want to talk a lot about. But as is always our tradition

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with how to take lead. We like to leave the conversation with

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something there for our listeners. And I just wondered

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if this is a topic that interests the listeners, how can

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they start to develop further in this space? Have you got any top

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tips, resources, things you want to signpost, people to to help

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them really start to think about self leadership in a different

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way if it's something that they've not considered before?

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Yeah,

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I mean, rewind this episode and go back and

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listen again if some of the prompts but I think for me, it's

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starting from a point of clarity. So how are you leading

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yourself? And it's asking that question of When I'm leading

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myself, well, I am doing X, Y, and Zed. So being really

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specific of the things that that you think happen when you're

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leading well, and then ask yourself the counter question

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when I'm being ineffective. I am, X, Y, Zed, whatever that

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might be. And it's a good opportunity to get feedback from

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from people around you, as well to find out like how you're

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showing up well, and when when things might be challenged,

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because it might be certain contexts, it could be certain

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situations, it could be one of those particular areas we've

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covered in terms of self leadership. I think there's

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something about asking yourself, what might be getting in the way

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of you showing up as the type of leader that you want to be. And

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I do an exercise with my clients when we are working through

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their personal strategy. And one of the questions I always ask

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them is to achieve this, what will I need to do differently.

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And it brings some real clarity in some big ticket areas of

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where things might need to start to shift. And I would say this,

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but I do genuinely believe this, working with a coach can be

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really helpful to to ask those slightly more challenging

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questions. It's not about a coached won't tell you what to

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do. But they will help you to take ownership yourself of the

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need to change. And I think my final point is the thing that I

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talked about earlier, which is this is a constant cycle. So

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make sure you've got that regular check in with yourself

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and with others about how you're doing, have some types of goals

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so you can see the difference and your evidence in the changes

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that you're making. And look at how am I developing my skills?

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How am I developing myself awareness? How am I developing

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and growing as a leader? I'm

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Carrie-Ann Wade: loving the blankety blank style prompts the

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like fill in the blanks, and another nice reference for only

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some of our listeners might get. And I also think that is the

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killer question, isn't it that achievement question like what

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do I need to do differently in order to achieve this? I think

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it's such a good question. So I don't disagree with anything you

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said. And I'm actually really glad you brought feedback in

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because I think we ended up talking about feedback on pretty

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much every episode about Italy. But how are you doing that?

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Testing, I think is really important because what you

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perceive and what others are experiencing might be might be a

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bit different. And I guess the only extras I would add is in

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this space. For me. I have really enjoyed some of Brene

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Browns conversations, particularly around dare to

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lead. So the book, but she's on podcasts, she's TED talks, and I

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think she does provide some challenge in that space that

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isn't just about leadership, but is about self leadership. And I

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also think some of the things that we've talked about,

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particularly in the kind of how you're showing up and the the

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kind of self care piece how you're looking after yourself,

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are about habits and forming some good habits. So I would

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also recommend Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by

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Stephen Covey, if people wanted to read and I realized I haven't

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given a book recommendation for a while, so I thought I would

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throw those in to end the conversation. So I know we could

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talk about this. More I'm sure we'll revisit some of this as it

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is appropriate in future episodes. But I want to say

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thanks for sharing me I feel a bit inspired now to kind of

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revisit my own thinking around self leadership. So um, thanks

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for the mini coaching. For me today and for the listeners. And

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I hope people enjoyed this episode. And until next time,

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we'll talk again.

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See you unknown. Thanks for listening. Don't

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forget to hit follow to make sure you get the next episode.

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And if today's discussion resonated, please leave a review

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on Apple podcasts. We

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Carrie-Ann Wade: also have our substack community where you can

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get behind the scenes info, Ask Us Anything session and build

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your network with like minded leaders. Visit how to take the

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lead.substack.com To find out

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more. And if you want to work with us to

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challenge and change leadership in your organization. Get in

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touch by dropping us an email how to take the lead@gmail.com

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or DMS on the socials. Until next week,

Lee Griffith:

Carrie-Ann Wade: get out there and take the lead