From longer life expectancies to career interruptions, women face distinct financial challenges in retirement. Fortunately, you can help bridge the gap with tailored strategies that empower women to retire on their own terms. Amanda Stahl, Director of Longevity Planning at Raymond James, shares how.

It’s interesting, John, when thinking about women and retirement and conversations that I’m having with financial professionals, the needs and women’s longevity tend to come up frequently in conversations where it’s, you know, caregiving and and socialization and the networks that women build. And it tends to be very similar. But also there are some nuances and differences that women will face. And I think it’s just very interesting as we think about the changing landscape, to help financial professionals think about how to engage women in these conversations. I don’t know if these are discussions that you’re having with financial professionals or things that you’re thinking about, either in your life or as you and Lisa have your retirement conversations. But, uh, it’s something that’s been top of mind for me.

Oh, for sure. Well, right now we’re, uh, we’re in our later 50s, which puts us in prime candidate range for caregiving, uh, which to a certain extent, we’re involved with and always thinking about that. Um, but also, you know, when, when we do work with and some of the research that we do when we talk about life expectancy now for 265 year olds, is that one of the two has a 5050 chance of living to age 92. I mean, it’s 5050 that one of the two will live longer than age 92, and I usually don’t have to remind people what gender is favored there. Right? So especially when we think about our female clients, and I’m sure a lot of financial professionals observe this now as their book grows older, oftentimes you’ll see that more and more people will be by themselves. And it wouldn’t be surprising the majority of those people aging by themselves oftentimes are women. So thinking through the full gamut of retirement possibilities about, uh, will I be with a partner or will I be alone? Do I have children? Do I not have children? These are all part of that planning conversations.

And it becomes more and more complex. And I think having those discussions is so crucial. I know that for a couple of the women in my family, the longevity is 104 and 106, respectively. So I’ve got a lot of caregiving potentially ahead of me. So it’s definitely top of mind for me. So a very important conversation, and I’m really excited to have this discussion with Amanda today.

Well, yeah. And for those of you who may not have ever gotten to meet Amanda Stall, Amanda works with Raymond James, but I know we’ve worked with Amanda for, gosh, years now. Really thinking about taking longevity planning from mere theory into putting it into practical use. And that’s what I always love about the things that Amanda and her team are working on. So it’s an honor, really, to have Amanda on our podcast today, just to update us on what she’s seeing in the world of planning, and in particular with those planning items. Upmost importance to female consumers.

Amanda is the Director of Longevity Planning at Raymond James, connecting financial advisors with longevity planning resources to help clients and their families plan for the caregiving and health care needs related to longer lifespans. She is part of the Raymond James Global Wealth Solutions Diversity and Inclusion Committee. She is a mentor with the Raymond James Emerge Mentoring Program, and she was a member of the 2022 Next Chapter Leadership and Action Group by the Execution Project, the Money Management Institute, and Financial Advisor magazine.

Hi, I’m John.

And I’m Julie.

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing podcast.

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let’s go.

Amanda. Welcome to the Human Centric Investing podcast. We are so excited to have you here with us today.

Hi. Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

Well, Amanda, for as long as we’ve known one another and been working in this field of longevity and retirement, we’ve had ongoing conversations about how retirement may be different for many women as opposed to their male counterparts. And so that being the focus of our podcast today. Uh, maybe you could kind of get us into the orbit of how we should be thinking about our female and female clients as well as their male counterparts, but really, initially with the focus of, uh, the jobs of the longevity and how they differ for women. So let me start you there, and we’ll carry the conversation on from here.

Great. I mean, we know that retirement affects women differently than men. Typically, women live longer than men. We all see the stats out there. Retirement savings, maybe time out of work, all the different financial aspects. But I think there are three main things that have a financial implication that advisors really need to think about. So caregiving. Um, being active and and socialization in retirement. And then also gray divorce. So if we want to start with caregiving, um, Raymond James client base split pretty 50, 50 men versus women, a good chunk of baby boomers, just like everybody else in the financial services industry. Uh, according to AARP., the vast majority of caregivers are women, average age 49. So kind of falling into that, you know, sweet spot for our client base, as I’m sure a lot of others. And so we really want to think about how we can support our women caregivers. And Doctor Joe Coughlin MIT Age Lab refers to women as the chief consumption officer. I see that in my life I buy the same brand of paper towels and laundry detergent that my mom always bought, and I don’t think twice about it. My female family members, my female friends, we’re constantly influencing each other and giving referrals for different professionals. And we really feel that if the financial advisor can provide that additional value to their women clients, particularly in that caregiving role, where you can really make an impact and help make their lives a little bit easier during a really stressful time. They’re going to go tell all their friends and their loved ones, um, what that advisor has done for them.

Amanda, I think caregiving is such an interesting topic because, you know, oftentimes we think of it at least initially and traditionally as, you know, a parent to a child. And then obviously, you know, as our parents age, then it’s up a generation. How about how are you thinking about it? For those that don’t have children, I think of myself, but I also think that I tend to give a lot of care to others. And so I think that there are a lot of maybe nontraditional caregivers. How do we think about that in terms of supporting that as well? Because I think there are so many different ways that we can support those, um, areas. Will you share with us some of those ideas and thoughts where financial professionals can, uh, you know, support their clients that maybe don’t have children but that are engaging in a lot of care in their lives?

Absolutely. I mean, I see that in my life, too. I don’t have kids at this point, but I’m the one getting the call from the friends to babysit because I have that bandwidth. Um, or, you know, getting called in from family members who who might need help and acting as backup and happy to do it. But it’s true. It really doesn’t matter what that family structure is. Women are in that caregiver role. And I actually just had a call with an advisor who joined Raymond James a few years ago and, and had a client from a past firm that they were still, you know, working with and trying to get to come over to Raymond James. And they didn’t have children. And the wife was really concerned about what that might look like as they age, who would take care of them, what’s the plan? And so we were able to go through what does that look like from where you’re going to live, who’s going to take care of you? What is that network? But then also taking it to the next level and actually referring them to a caregiving resource that we utilize where they can actually come into the home, do a full aging in place assessment, and then really act as backup. The senior care managers, geriatric care managers who can just keep in touch as people, you know, navigate the aging process and maybe down the road, if someone loses a spouse, they might need to be that emergency contact or might need help taking them to the doctor’s office. There are professionals out there that can act as those adult children. For people that don’t have kids or frankly, don’t have kids in the area, or their kids aren’t reliable, or they don’t want to ask their kids to help with that sort of thing.

So, Amanda, I know in your role with Raymond James, you’re talking to advisors every day. Uh, I know we’ve been at your conferences together, speaking to those same advisors. So how do you how do you guide an advisor? So I think of it like a Venn diagram. On one hand, I have an advisor who is trained in all the financial aspects of a person’s life, helping them plan and constructing the portfolio and all that. On the other hand, I have a client who’s now and fully engaged in the role of being a caregiver. Where do they intersect? Where would the where would the priority be? What can the financial professional offer that person who is in the role of a caregiver? They, in your view, will be most appreciated by the caregiver themselves.

I think that caregivers have a lot of stress, a lot of burnout. So just feeling seen and understanding that they have those additional responsibilities can really go a long way. It doesn’t have to be connecting them with a resource that could step in, although that would be great if advisors have access to that or they’re comfortable with that. It could be giving them a book, connecting them with other clients that they know are on a caregiving role, and kind of building a caregiver circle amongst their client base, if that’s appropriate. But these things have a huge financial implication as well. For those advisors that say, I’m not comfortable bringing that up, or is that going out of bounds? Is it taking a step too far? It’s really not. These caregivers are taking time out of work. They’re losing wages. They’re losing potential Social Security retirement savings. And they’re also spending a lot of their own money to help with those caregiving needs. So it makes perfect sense if they’re not comfortable going at it from their health care. More warm and fuzzy side. Approach it from the financial side. And how is this affecting your day to day? Do we need to build this into the financial plan and really helping them understand also what they’re spending? Because in those caregiving situations it can be very stressful, very reactive. And so they might just be paying bills and paying for things that they might not even realize how much they’re spending on a monthly basis.

Makes sense.

I think the emotional drain is also an interesting aspect of this. I my family just I’m actually Thanksgiving Day experienced a loss. My grandmother, my mom’s mom passed away and, uh, it was actually a blessing. She had dementia and she had just fallen and broken her hip and her shoulder. Oh, wow. That bad combination. And and so she she passed. But what was really interesting, and this was just such a, uh, uh, interesting firsthand experience for, for me to watch was my mom has two brothers, one older brother, one younger brother, and they had gone through and sort of divided up the roles, responsibilities, um, for after my grandmother passed in terms of, you know, the funeral home and, and her continuing care home. And, yeah, every one of them had taken a different point of contact the bank, you know, so everyone sort of had their, their roles, responsibilities. But it was so fascinating is in the days that ensued after my grandmother’s passing, every single place called my mom, even though she was not listed as the primary, um, and and so she became somehow the number one contact for all of these details, whether it was the financial side, the funeral home, the continuing care home. And so for days and days and days, she was the one going through all these details, even though they thought they had this very detailed plan of, you know, one brother was going to carry the, you know, the torch on this one, and the other brother was going to be the lead on this. And so it was very interesting. And, and so it just it became this very draining process, even though they thought they had divided up. And so it just it is fascinating how much of a process it is on women, I think. And of course, she felt like she just needed to swoop in and take care of the details because the people were calling her. And, you know, let’s get this done in a timely fashion. And so it is just so interesting how a lot of these processes for, for women, I think, end up on their plate. And, you know, again, they need to be taken care of. And it’s not, uh, let’s watch and wait and listen type of a process.

Sometimes I think we can’t help ourselves, too.

Um, I think that is true. We’re not the best delegator, right?

Yeah. It may have been at a lot of appointments or different things with your mom. And so these different professionals knew her. And it’s always the eldest daughter, all of that that we see. Exactly. Hopefully they were able to still come in and help her a little bit. But it’s stressful. And you know, you’ve just lost a parent and then you’re dealing with all of this. It is a lot for anybody to take on.

So Amanda, I think what I heard you say, and I think it’s right, is even if many of us wouldn’t consider ourselves experts in caregiving, right, that’s not our core value that we offer to our clients. However, I think if we approach it from the standpoint of saying to our client that, look, if income needs change in any way, right from my past experience, oftentimes, you know, you may need to alter your work schedule or you’re you’ll be putting money out of your own pocket for things. That’s sometimes is an avenue to open the door, uh, just to hear that story. And I think I agree that many times it’s just about listening to the client and allowing them to share what’s on their mind. Um, and I want to change gears on you a little bit. You mentioned, um, again, with that female client in mind, uh, the importance of of being social, staying connected, being more active. How do you see that changing in the client base that you all serve?

I think that as people approach these retirement periods, people are often still retiring in their mid 60s. I personally think that’s going to change. I can’t imagine retiring in my 60s. I don’t see my father doing that. I think it’s it’s going to continue to get later and later for a lot of people. But with that said, they’re now looking at what is the next 20, 25, 30 years look like, all the things that you are in Hartford funds as such. Great job talking about to with MIT AgeLab and all the work that you do. So how can we really help our clients stay engaged, understand the importance of socialization? Tons of studies out there that show socialization has a huge impact on brain health, on longevity, even those that socialize just occasionally. It has a positive impact. So whether that’s connecting them with volunteer groups, thinking about encore work or part time work and retirement, or cool different new technologies to stay connected with the grandkids, we have a whole guide that we put together with different links to just help people think about what that looks like, because it’s not just travel and golf and hanging out with the grandkids. It might be for a couple years, but what does it look like after that? Um, and just some examples from my family and kind of the other side of the coin, my grandparents are in their 80s. My grandpa just turned 88. My grandmother was 85. She had a stroke in her early 60s. Never made a really full recovery whatsoever. Completely dependent for all ADLs. Not mobile unless she has help and he’s been her full time care caregiver for 20 plus years. Probably not what he thought his retirement was going to look like, and he makes sure they get out of the house every day and they go out to lunch. And when they come down and visit and are staying with my parents that are around my nephew and things like that, you can see in just a couple of days that cognitive change, because they’re so much more socially engaged, they’re having more conversations and dealing with a toddler and things like that. So you can see and loved ones and just on the day to day, what an impact it can make on people. And just I hear all the time, too, that a lot of times the financial advisor can be somebody number one. Um, so just checking in on them, encouraging them to get out, connecting them with other groups can be so, so valuable.

I think you’re right. And, you know, it’s interesting, I think the framework of oftentimes we think we’re retiring from something. Sometimes I think just having a slight shift in thinking, what are we retiring to? And, you know, and a financial professional can sort of have that conversation with a client to say, well, what, what what will those activities be and how will you fill your day? You know, and we oftentimes say, you know, we we see the statistics that, you know, the number of, of minutes or hours of TV watching goes up exponentially in retirement. And, you know, I don’t think anyone ever says, gee, I can’t wait to retire. So I can watch, you know, a hundred more hours of TV in a week or month or year, right? But unfortunately, if you don’t maybe have that mindset of, well, I’m retiring to be able to volunteer more and to be more engaged in my community and to spend, you know, three days a week with my grandkids and to go do X, Y, and Z. Oftentimes TV does become that filler because you don’t have that plan and that network and sort of that framework in place.

Totally agree. And it’s just thinking through what that’s going to look like. What do you enjoy? A lot of what you guys talk about too. Just thinking through how you’re going to spend your days. My dad works a lot. He’s a business owner. I don’t even want to know how many hours a week he is working. It’s scary. And so as he starts to kind of approach more of that transition time where maybe he’ll transition down to 40 hours a week and that might feel like a vacation for him. How will he fill some of that time? He really wants to coach basketball. So can he start helping, you know, being an assistant coach now as he’s transitioning and trying to take a little bit time away from work, and then maybe in retirement he would spend more time coaching basketball and things like that.

Amanda, from the advisors you work with, and I’m just going to float my own hypothesis by. You can disagree. Spin it however you like. But what I often what I observe is I think financial professionals sometimes underestimate the social role that they play in the lives of their clients. And I know one of the things that we see people get really engaged around, like you mentioned earlier, if they do some kind of a group event where there’s, you know, an opportunity for fun and socialization, maybe it’s a wine tasting, maybe it’s a charity event where all my clients get together, whoever’s available, and, and we do something for the good of the community. It always seems to me like those events go really, really well. And part of the reason is because of the social connectivity, which maybe isn’t as available to us when we’re a little bit older as it was when we were younger. Do you do you see the same kind of thing?

Completely agree. And I think, you know, post-Covid, the in-person client events are coming back now. We were we are we were on zoom a lot before. So, um, yeah. And it can be a great prospecting tool for advisors as well. It might feel like a lot to invest the time and money into events like this, but tell your I know advisors say you can come to this event if you bring a friend who you think would make a good client of mine different, different things that they do. So I totally agree with that. And it can just be a really great way to do the right thing for your clients and help them stay socially engaged and, and and talk about something different and new than they would they would normally talk about.

And on our topic of the of the female client and just even doing a monthly ladies lunch or something like that to allow clients to come together, it’s it’s not like you have to turn the world upside down, right? To, to kind of implement something like that.

Yeah. Block off your conference room, throw some coffee in there, let people come in and and mill about. We definitely see advisors that do that.

I’ve even noticed that if you think about pre pandemic at those types of events, people would come in, they would sit through the event and you know, right as the presentation would wrap up they were out the door. Right. It seemed like people had places to be. And now when people gather all of a sudden the presentation will be over and it’s an hour and a half or two hours later and the venue is shutting off the lights and closing the door, and they’re like, okay, folks, if you need to leave, we’re closing the restaurant. Please, please step out. So I think it’s just a sign that people are yearning to be together, right? That that connection, that engagement, it is really special. And I think that it’s it’s really something that if you can provide that environment for people to to have that connectivity and build those friendships, it really is something that is valued and appreciated in lives.

Completely agree, especially on the topic of longevity and MIT age lab. They want to stick around and chat. It is such an engaging topic, a little bit different from the market update, so I would encourage advisors to mix things up. Talk about something different and see what kind of client engagement that they might get.

So Mandy, you mentioned gray divorce and I’ll lump widowhood in with it. Because really in either situation we’re talking about losing a relationship. And I’m just curious, how do you guide your advisors, what resources do you make available to them to help them navigate what can be a really emotional situation that has not only emotional but also financial consequences?

Yeah, I think that’s a great opportunity for them to really be able to take another look at the financial plan. Um, we also work with a company called Ever Plans, where somebody can go in and organize and store all of their life information, anything and everything you can think about, from legal to health to what’s your favorite family recipe to elder care living wishes. And I think as somebody takes on a little bit more independence, whether that is great divorce or widowhood, it can really help them feel empowered knowing that all the information that they need to manage their life is in one place, and that they can then share it with their loved ones. Whereas in the past, maybe they relied on their spouse or their partner for part of that. Um, just having everything organized in one place can be so, so valuable. And then also thinking about the caregiving, the health care, even things like Medicare. Uh, just to help them feel like they have the resources that they need to manage their life independently.

Amanda, for financial professionals that maybe haven’t brought these conversations to the forefront historically, especially with their female clients or prospects. How do you see them most successfully starting to integrate them into conversations you know, can be hard to start to have these conversations again if it hasn’t been part of the process. Could you give some ideas to our listeners again, if they’re if there’s someone listening and saying, you know what, this really is something that I need to or would like to focus on, but it doesn’t necessarily feel as natural to me as I would like. Where would you start? How how have you seen those financial professionals successfully integrate this conversation into what they’re doing?

We see a lot of our advisors that are heavy users of our financial planning software that are having a pretty seamless, um, time transitioning and bringing up this conversation and including these conversations with their clients because, like we talked about, all of these things have a financial implication. So when you’re in the financial plan, thinking about things like housing, okay, let’s look at a housing goal. Do you love your home? Do you plan to stay there? A lot of people say, oh, I never want to leave my home. Do you want to downsize? Vast majority of adults want to age in place. So if somebody says, I want to stay in my home, let’s look at some different goals. We have a whole guide that we publish with different averages for things like bathroom remodels or even just annual home maintenance, so that people can understand what that might look like. And from there, they’re thinking about the longevity piece of Will I be living here independently? Um, you know, what is it going to take for me to do that? Do I need to make modifications to the home? Also, conversations around do I have family nearby? Do I want to move in with my adult children eventually? Have you told them that all of these different things and those conversations, too, can make a great introduction to the next generation? If you’re working with a woman client who maybe has adult children and you want to help them, think about what that plan for their eventual living situation is going to look like. So really within the context of financial planning is a great way to do it. And then also client events. Just making them aware of the topic of the resources that they have available to them as the advisors client. And it is a great way to really get the conversation going and getting the wheels spinning for people. I think sometimes clients can be a little bit resistant to thinking about aging, but aging is such a privilege. And so how do we help them do that successfully and be proactive versus reactive to make what can be a stressful time a lot less stressful? You have that plan in place, and then you can just trigger the plan versus having to figure it out as you go.

Amanda, just briefly, if you could comment, I know beyond the financial planning tools that you all at Raymond James make available, uh, to your financial professionals. You mentioned a number of guides and things, but I know from the work that you’ve done that you’ve actually gone beyond just providing guides and things, and you all have vetted certain kinds of services that you make available for your advisors and your clients. Can you just briefly share with us kind of the areas that those services are active in?

Absolutely. So our most popular resource, and where I would recommend advisors get started in this, if they want to start working with third parties, would be Medicare. It is a huge value to clients and an easy extension from that Social Security conversation for you to be able to provide your client with a trusted resource to help them navigate their different supplement options and help them get signed up. We also work with a health care concierge that helps with second opinions, finding doctors, connecting people with specialists around the country. I mentioned, uh, Care Management Company, which is a national company with care managers located around the country that will actually come into the home do for aging in place assessments. And then we also work with Ever Plans, which I mentioned, a great place to store all of your information and share it with loved ones. And we also work with Ever Safe, which is fraud and identity theft protection. And they kind of take it to the next level with a layer of family financial caregiving so that clients can set up their loved ones, adult children, other trusted family members to receive their alerts alongside them. And that just really helps to stop fraud in its tracks before things can really snowball. And we’re constantly looking, seeing what else we want to offer to our advisors and clients. And next up will be an estate planning service where clients can pay a flat rate to get their trust in their will and other essential estate planning documents. Taking care.

That’s such a great overview. Thank you so much, Amanda. We really appreciate all of the insight. And those are such actionable steps. And we hope our listeners are inspired to continue these important conversations with all clients, but especially their female clients, as they navigate these important topics in their retirement and beyond. And because this is the Human Centric Investing podcast. If you’re willing today we would love to take you into something that we call the Lightning Round. Now, this is where we ask you some questions to get to know the human side of you. Amanda.

Let’s do it.

So, Amanda, would you rather spend time at a beach house or a lake house?

Beach house, 100%. I grew up less than a mile from the beach. I must be near the water. And I frankly don’t understand lake people. What’s under there? I don’t get it. I’d much rather do the beach for sure.

That’s so funny. Okay, on a scale of 1 to 10, how good of a driver are you?

I’d say maybe a seven and a half. I did just get a parking ticket. So I have to be honest with myself and with a parking ticket. Um, I would say a seven and a half, but I love road trips. I would rather hop in the car and take a road trip than fly somewhere if I could. Um, just grew up with lots of road trips and find it really fun. So, um. Okay.

Very important question. Er, Amanda, dark chocolate or milk chocolate?

I think. Dark chocolate. Heart health. Oh, no.

Yeah. Longevity. Yeah. Where you get it?

What’s the best age?

The best age. Yes, I, my best friend and I have a running joke that we’re going to peak in our 40s, so I’ll let you know. I don’t know yet, but, um, hopefully it’s it’s yet to come.

When would you rather watch a TV show? Uh, or let me rephrase this. Would you rather binge a TV series or watch a movie?

Um, I think binge a TV series and now in the streaming services have the one episode coming out at a time.

What’s the last one year binge?

Last show that I binged. Oh.

Um.

The Gilded Age on HBO.

Cool.

I haven’t seen it.

I have to watch it. I haven’t watched it yet.

Yes, that’s on my list. Okay. What’s the ideal outside temperature?

I mean, I’m a Floridian, so I would say like 82 degrees. I get a little chilly if it gets under 80. So, uh.

Well, we can’t thank you enough for joining us today on the Human Centric Investing podcast. And and for our listeners, you know, we know that clients typically aren’t going to their financial advisor asking about longevity and aging. So we know that bringing up longevity planning is such an effective way for advisors to position themselves and as a center point in clients lives and strengthen the relationship as truly a family advisor across multiple generations. And please visit Raymond james.com/longevity planning for a wealth of resources. Amanda mentioned several of them, and she and her team have put together so many amazing resources to help you in the conversations, to really have, you know, strengthen the the conversations as well as the the plan and the thought that you put behind this. So thank you again, Amanda, for all of the work that you’re doing.

Thank you.

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