In this episode of the Reframing Design podcast, hosts Rainey Richardson and Casey Brand take you inside Four Hands in Austin, Texas, to explore the brand’s design philosophy and evolution. They talk with three of their brilliant team leaders, Brooke, Josh, and Adam, about blending art and functionality to create furniture that transforms spaces. From hospitality projects to home interiors, they share the innovative designs and strategic moves that have elevated Four Hands from its beginnings to a leading name in furniture design.

Whether you’re a designer, homeowner, or design lover, this episode takes you inside the creativity and artistry that make this furniture brand a true standout

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Hi, I'm Casey.

And I'm Rainey. Welcome to the Reframing Design podcast. If you're a new designer, a seasoned designer, a homeowner, or a home enthusiast, you are in the right place.

We are going to talk about all things design. Our stories, our opinions, our experiences, and we're probably going to chase a few rabbits down a few rabbit holes.

But one thing we can guarantee, we will not talk about politics.

Hi.

Hello.

Hi. So we're not doing the other voices. We're not doing those. Okay.

So I'm like, where are we and.

Why aren't we doing the voices to take us? We're somewhere so special.

Yep.

We teleported into the most amazing place.

Oh, my gosh.

It's Disneyland.

It's is.

It's Disneyland. Where are we?

We're at Four Hands in Austin, Texas.

Austin, Texas.

And if you don't know about Four Hands, the brand, you are going to learn so much today. So fascinating.

Socks will be knocked off for sure. And if you don't know forehands, you probably do know forehands. You just didn't know that you know them.

Because you're going to see things that will make you go, oh, my gosh, that's Four Hands. I love that chair. I love that table because they're in the best places. And so many just nuggets everywhere, so.

And their brand is so recognizable. I mean, it just really is recognizable.

Probably more than other brands, I would have to say. It's very specific but not boring. I mean, it's not just a seeing that. It's just specific to them.

And it's so on point every season, and it's in all of our projects. Right.

So we're excited to be here and we're gonna have great guests that we're talking about in just a minute. But first, I'm wondering, what's your win today?

Well, besides being here, which is huge, but I got to drive here from Oklahoma, which from a parents weekend and at OU with the baby and your teeny, tiny, tiny little. My little 20 year old, he's just. Yeah, just a weekend with the kids is always something. We talk about this all the time.

Whether it's work or family, it's always our win. But this one was extra. We had some nugget time and I did something.

He's a junior now.

He is a junior.

That just is mind blowing.

It's crazy.

I remember when you drove him up.

There and cried, like, didn't come home for two weeks. I mean, I couldn't see myself go walking back into the house without him. So, yeah, it was really neat.

And it was funny because his roommates, like, they are. You know, everybody had to bring furniture and their stuff and so pieces from four hands, which is great that it's here, but they are in his room.

And so there's talk about furniture now that maybe wouldn't have been in a typical boys dorm room, but because of what we get to do, they're all more aware. So I love that. I know.

And I heard you play bags and all kinds of things.

Oh, yes. I suck at bags. I need to learn. But fun attack. Okay, so tell me yours.

So I think for me, when I was thinking about my win for today, we are coming up on a year of doing our podcast together, and there has been this major shift where we all of a sudden have people reaching out to ask us if they can be on our podcast. And when we did sort of our dream board about what this would turn into, I don't think we ever imagined that being a thing, especially at this stage.

And so we just had somebody really kind of famous reach out to us. And. And we're trying to make a way to make that work with travel and all the things. And so made me really proud of us.

That is a huge win.

And to celebrate and within that year, and I do think we're gonna be able to change how we do this podcast to be able to do these things, which we hadn't even anticipated needing to do. But now we've got these people who aren't maybe drivable to get to or aren't in Houston.

And so now we might be switching it up a little bit, too, on how we reframe how we do our podcast so we can accommodate that.

Exactly.

It's so exciting.

And then we have this stunning piece of art. We've learned a lot about this artist recently. His name is Reese Truesdell. Truesdell. Thank you for that. Reese Truesdell.

He shows at Round Top in Texas, which, if you don't know about Round Top, you need to. He's from Kansas City and studied at OU Boomer Sooner. And so this piece is just awesome. As we were walking through the art.

Oh, the art studio, which you guys.

Are gonna hear all about, this piece of art, like, stopped us in our track. So.

And if you go to YouTube, so you can see it, but it. You can also see that it matches Raini in a way that, like, is undeniable.

So.

So I'm trying to figure out how to steal this.

I don't know, maybe in her purse later, but it's stunning.

Yeah. I'm obsessed.

So now we get to introduce you to three of the most fascinating, fun people and the reason that we're here. So.

Yep.

Thank you.

We're going to be bringing on Adam and Josh and Brooke, and so we're going to set up the studio and then be right back at you. Yeah. The energy today at four Hands has been. And the culture and the vibe and everything has been so amazing. And so should we have you.

I think we're going to have you guys each introduce yourselves. Brooke, Josh, and Adam. And tell us what you do.

I can start. So I am the director of curation and artist relations over at the art studio side of Forehand.

So I get the opportunity to work with artists, help develop the art for the brand line and some of our customers and, yeah, just generally get to play with art.

I mean.

Sorry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that too. What do you do? I play with art. That's not your husband's name, is it?

If only. That would make us much better.

Pieces of art.

That's worse.

Oh, good God. What a great way to.

Yeah.

Okay. Professional. Let's see. I am Josh Jarbo. I am the senior vice president of sales at Forehand.

So I'm over all the sales teams and managers and the revenue aspect of the company and dip my fingers into a little bit of everything.

Love it.

Awesome. I'm Adam Dunn. I'm the senior vice president of design.

So I set all creative direction and look for the brand, and then my team does all of the product development design that we bring to market.

I mean.

I mean.

Yeah.

Yeah. I want all of your. Yeah, that's it. We're just going to let you go. Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you even. So well. Do you want to share a win? Yeah, we have a win from you guys because, I mean, it's hard sometimes when you're doing what you're doing.

Yeah.

Go to market. So is there anything.

Yeah, I have a personal win, actually. So, like, my oldest son, Benny, his soccer team just, like, smoked the competition this weekend, which was amazing.

So it's like the first time their little team has actually kind of clicked, and it was awesome. They were undefeated last year and they were just losing everything this year, and they just killed it.

Did. Has he gotten a goal this season?

Yeah, he's real good. He's an aggressive little dude.

Oh, does he have, like, a dance that he does after the goal?

Yeah, they all do that. Like, Messi Thing.

Yes. Where they run.

Yeah, they all do. Messi's a soccer player.

That'S just in.

Oh, my. Dude, what does this mean?

Yeah, yeah, my grand. I have twin grandsons that are. I have twin grandsons that are eight and they play soccer, and so it's the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Love it. It's a great age. Okay.

Okay, Josh, what's a win?

Well, I think this is work related, but it's brand new too. So just this past Friday, we had the. The first round of training for the new product introductions that are landing in High Point.

So we do it remotely because we have everybody interacting and typing in the chat and there's all kinds of clapping and hearts that go on. And it's the first time that a lot of the sales team and a lot of even some of the marketing teams are seeing some of the new introductions.

And so we get so excited about that and everybody just really gets, you know, geared up for High Point and super pumped for market.

I love it.

That still is with me.

I love that.

That's a good one.

It was a really good one. And Brooke brought it home at the end with some new introductions. No one was expecting.

Art's always best for last at the end of a presentation. But yeah, we had some great mural introductions and some new artists, so we're excited for everybody to see that.

Also, just general great product that's coming out for launch.

Exciting.

What's your win?

My win this weekend was the first weekend and I'm not breaking or anything, but I haven't been home much. I've been traveling a lot. I actually we just got to go on a great PD trip to Paris and London and then I had some family time in Montana.

So honestly, it was just nice to be home and got some friends time in and yeah, went out in Lockhart on Friday night. So they've got like a great first Friday. And so that was just nice to meet you.

Got to have some time with your two puppies.

Yeah, and a little time with my doggos, for sure. Love that.

And yes, love it.

Incredible.

So I'm interested in really understanding and I think, Adam, this question would be for you. What is the origin story of four hands? Like, how did it start?

Yeah, Forehands is actually a lot older than I think people realize. Like, next year we're hitting 30 years, which is like, super cool.

That's how old we are.

Just thinking you were all born at the same time.

Yeah.

Six years after high school graduated, I was like, graduated?

No but we're hitting like our 30 year anniversary which is great. And the company started really, really small. So Four Hands originated as like an antiques dealer.

They're bringing in one of the clients from all over Mexico and Asia and then they just continually evolve, which is really great. And actually the story it started by two people. Their four hands were the ones that started a company.

There it is.

And there it is. Yeah. And so it's actually a really cool. So we started off as this really small boutique y curator of like cool things.

And then over time we've just grown. We've joined our grown our product development team, our design chops and we've just kind of evolved over the years.

Interesting.

Started here in Austin.

It was in like a tiny. Honestly like when you walk around this building like you don't really get the feel for how small it was because like it's pretty big now. Right.

But like it was started in this tiny little trailer and there's maybe like two people in the company who are still there who are here with us now.

I was going to ask that question and who are they?

One is Lakshman who is in our India office. He's like our country manager and he's amazing. He just said 25 years or something like that. And Renee.

And Renee. Oh yeah. Renee is one of our key accounts managers and also a dear friend and she's at 23 years at the company.

That is amazing.

There's a lot of tenure at the company and particularly when we're talking to and attracting new talent. That's one big feather in our cap.

Yeah.

And that kind of was going to be. So the culture you guys do have here, it's very intentional. More I feel like than most companies that I've heard about.

Even just the process of how to get a job here because I was trying to get one and I wasn't accepting that out there. But so can you speak to that and what you guys do for your tinker? Because it, it's. You feel it walking through. I mean you have a kitchen that's.

Got stocked for the kitchen. I can't even. Yeah, no, it's pervasive. It's like comes out of the walls, it comes out of the people. It comes.

Yeah, yeah. You feel like you're in a very small company and it's massive.

And I think we can all add to that because it is so layered and it is so many things but it definitely starts at the top. You know, we do have what we believe in. We do have a Vision. We do have core values.

You know, we really believe that people are in conversation with that it is positively impacting your emotional state when your surroundings are beautiful.

And so that it's really purposeful that the furniture that we make is serving that for our end consumers, for the customer, ultimately, there's a vision that we really want to be at the leading edge of design and of quality and of customer experience and to really come through with that. And then we have core values, too. Which of the core values my favorites are probably value the whole person.

You know, it's really important to us that when people come to work, they're bringing their entire selves to work, you know, and they're collaborating with everything that they've got, which is one of the reasons, as you've walked around and have seen, the environment is so beautiful and inviting. It's a place where you want to come and you want to spend time here, and we will feed you well.

And I think everything is on brand. I mean, the cubicles, the. It just everywhere you look, it's like, oh, that's four hands.

And it's really. It's really from this onset of got to go to the art studio, which I cannot wait to. But there's nothing here that you guys have not made or created.

And I think that that says a lot, because I don't know about too many other manufacturing places that are furniture based that wouldn't maybe bring in something that wasn't maybe theirs. Or even your cubicles, like you said, designed, built the desks, everything is not as you. And so it really. Do you use it?

It's super custom. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like we were able.

That was the coolest part when we were transitioning and, like, rebuilding this whole space, that we really have the opportunity to make it reflect our culture and, like, who we are as a brand. And you're right. Most companies don't get to do that, right? You walk in here and you're like, oh, I'm forehands. You know what I mean?

You can really tell. And I think a lot of that too. Just adding on to Josh, it's like, ownership's really big here, right? That's, like, kind of my favorite thing.

We're still real startup y. Do you know what I mean?

Even though we're big, there is this, like, big startup mentality still, where it's like, you're allowed to take ownership of your area and drive through ideas and create positive change, and they really want you to do that. For him, it's a lot of like self starting and responsibility. Like, I know my team's like, they travel a lot.

So I'm just like, if y' all want to like hang out in Bali or whatever for a weekend because you're in Indonesia, that's totally cool. I know you're going to get back to me. I mean, bills, right. So it's like you can.

And the inspiration that comes from that, right. Like, that is priceless.

It's totally great. So I feel like so much of it is like being knowing that it's not just allowed.

It's expected for you to take ownership and really drive results yourself.

And even to the point that they're. They're using the software that they're comfortable with. I mean, I don't know that just that did something that was mind blowing.

When we learned that today.

Yes, she can work on this, but he likes this and vice versa. That is gracious. As I'll get out, right. That you're not forcing this other thing because it is creative and we do do it so differently.

It's true.

So it's threaded through everything.

Totally. The results can be the same, but how you get there can change based off of like your skill set. Right. And that's not a big deal.

As long as you're bringing cool results, you're good to go.

I love that. And so, Brooke, we got to go to the art studio that was the first place we toured this morning. And to say mind blowing.

Seems like those words aren't enough to conceptualize how we felt when we walked through there. Can you speak a little bit about. I think you were here and sort of started that whole branch or really took it and grew it.

You've been here for eight and a half years. Will you talk about that and what you do and then sort of where you see yourselves going next?

Yeah, well, I was there when the art studio became part of the Greater Four Hands company. And that was about eight and a half years ago. But the.

The reason being was because Matt Briggs and the president of the art studio had been working together for many, many years.

And it just was like this perfect point in time where just like the marriage and the growing opportunity for art in the home space and especially with Four Hands just was really like the right time, right place, and it's really skyrocketed.

Everything that we've been able to do with the art program, everything from the technology which you guys got to see, so the amazing suites of printers and scanners, all of the Craftsmen that we have in house to really be bringing that to life. But we're doing it all on demand and producing it as the customer orders it.

But it still feels like it's on brand and something that we're trying to push, working directly with artists, we're trying to work with independent and emerging artists, but also content providers so that we really have a wide variety of options and offerings for people.

And with your artists, from what I understand, you have some artists who, you know, most artists, you know early on or even midway through their careers still have to supplement with other jobs and careers because art doesn't always, but you guys have now have resident artists that are able to not have those other jobs.

One of my favorite stories is an artist, Eileen Fitzgerald, that we work with.

She's here locally and she's one of the first artists that like as when we merged with Four Hands or became part of Four Hands was one that I reached out to and she was working as a full time nurse, but she was doing art on the side, really wanted to, you know, be able to be a full time artist. And it was the mailbox money. So all of our artists get paid a royalty.

So we're, you know, that's part of just working with us is the exposure, but also just you get paid like, you know, they're doing all the work, like they're putting in the effort up front and then we're just get to be the vehicle to take it out to the world and support these people.

But Eileen's work started picking up and getting traction and it was just that gap, that bridge that she was able to then become working a full time artist so that she can focus on her original artwork and then she gets that mailbox money from us to help supplement her family. So it's for me, like that's like the exciting stuff is really helping support these artists and get their names out there.

And just like the support from like our sales team, our marketing team, like everybody gets so behind it and they're like part of the Four Hands family, the ecosystem.

We get to know the artists. You know, they come to market, they come to trainings with the sales team. We get to know them and we get to watch their art transform over time too.

Like Eileen specifically, you can see a difference in her art from when she went from full time.

I mean, from my perspective, art is so subjective, of course, but like her new introductions that we're bringing to market are just so lush and vibrant and full of so much vitality in life. You can tell that she's pouring so much passion into it. And part of that, I have to believe, is because she's a full time artist now.

I love that. So how do you. How do you find. How do you find the artists? I mean, you, I'm sure, are exposed to so many artists and so many different types of art.

How do you go? That's for me. Is it the person? Is it the art? Is it both?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a combination of things. There's so many great resources for finding art and artists.

I mean, like, Adam and I are constantly, like, scouring, like, Instagram and things like that. And that algorithm will definitely help you.

Out if you want it to send me cool art.

But it's even just like going out to shows like Reese. We found Reese at Roundtop. You know, just like, inspiration's really everywhere. But now especially I'm getting referrals from pretty much everyone.

It comes out of the woodwork, but other artists will refer other artists, which I also love, because then they're supporting each other. It's not meant to be a competitive space, but love. Yeah.

And so speaking to that even. So what we got to see, which, you know, you say 3D printer, you say these things and you're like, meh. What? Okay.

Yeah, that's cool.

I have one of those in my eyes.

Sounds good.

And then you see it and like, the one that just is the shocking is it's on wood and the. What is it? Seven layers of different. The texture and just everything that is done in there.

We were like, we didn't want to keep following because we were just so stuck on leech, like, and it was like we lost our tribe because we keep going.

We knew y' all were going to put leashes on us or shock collars. It was aware. Arcasian rainy day.

Yeah. There's a lot of shiny objects.

So for murals even, and which you have here in your showroom.

Mind blowing.

Mind blowing.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And I think the other interesting thing for me was that you guys get 400 finished pieces out of the door a day. That is from custom framing.

It gets sanded and painted, and the artwork is printed and it is matted, and it is put in the frame with glass and it is intentionally wrapped with cardboard that is wrapped to that exact specification of that piece. And it's labeled and it goes out to a client. I am like. I am like.

So I would have been impressed if you had said five and when you said 400, I still have not Been able to wrap my mind.

I was waiting for the clown, like.

For you to go.

Just kidding.

Because it was so clean and tidy and. And there was just no frenzy.

No. With the intention.

Nice. Like, everybody's just genuinely like, anyway, this.

Is what I'm doing.

And I think that ties back to, like, the culture thing is, like, it carries over from building to building, and we have, like, super smart people who run our production operations over there, and, like, they're just constantly working on more efficiencies. When do we invest in more technology?

So that printer suite that you guys saw, I mean, those are smart people figuring out, like, what's the right time to make those investments. When are we leveling up our technology?

Because the intention is for the artwork, these fine art reproductions, to look as close to an original as possible. Well, they do. Sick. Thank you. Yeah.

And so that's, you know, part of that is us continuing to know what we're doing and getting better at it and learning from our mistakes or learning from. Just like, there's new technology coming out every day, and we just want to be right there, ready to use it.

Because, like, that Swiss Q technology, we're probably one of the only art manufacturers in the US that now have five, you know, so that's like, you know, like.

But, you know, where that's also, I think part of four Hands is just constantly being like, you know, leading that, trying to find that edge and just making sure that we're. We're using it appropriately.

Kind of that startup mentality. You're always just charging constantly. Yeah. Instead of that comfort zone.

Well, it's so cool with the art studio, too, because the technology really drives our level of creativity over there, which is kind of backwards, kind of what you think about it. But we're able. We're looking for techniques that we're not even sure if the printers can do. And so we have to go and ask, like, can we do this?

Can we do this? And that widens the breadth of art that we're able to bring to market. And all of that is being leveraged by the tech that they bring in.

It's really cool.

It's a really fun part of the product development process, especially because it's, like, right down the road, and so we can test and play and try new things. But, yeah, sometimes it's just like, oh, can we do that? We're like, we're going to try.

Well, adding to. We're never losing sight of the people and the craftspeople that are involved in the Production of it.

So there's the science piece, but there's also the art piece. So it's.

Everything is also hand touched, you know, so there's always an element of the person and the craftsperson and the human that's involved in that and, you know, to that point with the culture. And this is part of your interview process right now you're doing it.

But it is a long process, you know, to find the right people that share, to find the right talent that share the same vision.

I think the craft part is so important too, because, like, we always talk about art as being 50% content, 50% presentation style. And I feel like the content can be really, really great, but if you're not presenting it the right way, it doesn't become a product.

Do you know what I mean?

It might be correct.

Yeah. It might be like a cool piece of art, but it might not be a product that somebody wants to buy.

And so much of that presentation technique comes in through like the handcrafted details that we do at our studio.

Yeah.

And it's really like what drives it home. I think it's the finishing touch that finishes it.

Sometimes we'll be styling things out and we'll just do a quick little frame change and it totally changes the art.

Yeah. It elevates it. So, Josh, for you as senior vice president of people of stuff.

Yeah. Of many things. Right.

I got senior vice president of Bryan.

Yeah, you did. Excellent.

And what is the last part?

Sales.

Sales. Okay, so sales.

But what I see of you, and it's very personal, I know, to Casey and to myself, is the reps that we interact with on a daily, weekly or monthly basis, depending on your volume and needs. And our rep is Tristan.

And I know he's been with the company for 12 years, but we as a firm literally buy from forehand sometimes when we could source elsewhere, because we love Tristan. And I think that that goes back to you and your talent of understanding and recognizing who's a good fit.

So can you speak to sort of the origin of growing that sales team? Because I think they went from being Austin centric.

That's right.

To being all around the United States, if I understand correctly. And so can you talk about that and that journey?

Sure. Well, thank you for calling out Tristan. He's fantastic. And he is a four hands person.

He started off in our showroom, in our flagship showroom here that's open. And then grew into his account executive role, where you now get to enjoy him and everything that he brings to the table.

I Feel like he's gonna get a really big head. I don't know, Rosie.

I know.

For 12 years he's just okay.

Down here. He is the cutest.

Yeah, he is. He's a fellow ginger.

Fellow ginger. There you go.

Represent and protect each other.

But it was when I, when I first joined Forehands about seven years ago, there was, there were people that were based in Austin that were traveling long distances to get to their territories. And I felt strongly that people should be dedicated completely to Forehands for one. So they are exclusive reps to our brand.

So they're not carrying other brands so they can be very, very focused and carry our right. So you're not fighting with other, you know, lines that are in the bag or whatever.

And also that people lived in the territory that they're representing, not only because they need to be just a quick car drive away to be able to come and do a lunch and learn with you or drop off a sample or whatever your needs may be, but so that they understand that part of the world. And what is the design ethos? What is it like? Because what are show houses like in that part of the world?

Because if you go to a show house in Atlanta, Georgia, it's going to be very different from one in New York, that's going to be very different from one in la. And I always want the specialist, I want the person that's the expert for that territory and for that customer base and that look.

So how do you find those people?

It is not easy to tell you the truth. I mean, we do enjoy, we do have several people that have grown up through the ranks and have come from other departments and joined sales.

So they were already well versed in who Forehands is. They were already part of the Forehand's DNA and already understood what it means to be an aspect of a high functioning team at the company.

And so they could easily roll into sal. Otherwise. It's hard. I mean, it just is, you know.

To hire somebody in Idaho. I mean, how do you do that?

Right. For example, we recently hired somebody on the east coast in a mid Atlantic position who is fantastic.

And it took us almost two years, you know, to find this person.

Wow.

Yeah.

Like, so how did you know that was the one? Like, that's what I'm trying to get to.

Because there are a lot of salespeople that people cringe, you know, they walk in the door and you're like, oh my God, don't tell them I'm here. You know, like, I've done that. Here's that person. I'm gonna hide behind this column. I want.

When a salesperson walks into the door, I want your eyes to light up.

I want you to be excited to see that person because you know that they're going to be helpful, knowledgeable, trained, and have the answers for you, you know?

And this team, like, the sales team cares, like, they care so deeply about each other, about the product. Like, on the artist side, like, they really want to hear the stories behind the pie. They want to know that. Cause they want to pass that on.

And I'm just always so impressed, like, how much they truly care.

They do the value. The whole person piece, too. They're bringing their entire person to work. And that's also why it's specific to their region.

When you walk into our showroom, you could almost line up the reps and say, well, you're clearly Pacific Northwest and you're Florida and you're New York.

Which is great for the designer or the client that they're bringing in, because somebody with purple hair going into Idaho might not, you know, like, you just. You don't know what they're. The crossover. But LA is gonna kill that. Right. So it just helps. So for you guys working together then.

And you know, you guys are designing 18 month, 24 months.

Yeah, like, we're doing. Yeah. Creative direction comes out two years ahead, and design happens, like 12 months ahead.

And so when you finally get to show them and you guys have been looking at it for all these and sort of. So then their fresh eyes get on. Is that such a fun moment for everybody when you guys can see their reaction that they.

No, it's super exciting.

I feel like we have, like a couple touch points because after we finalize the season, so anytime we go to market, we do not launch the product without. Stop. Right.

Say that louder for the people in the back.

Honestly, it is really. We don't launch items in a testy way. Like, we believe in them. We thinned out the herd. We know that they're the best of the best.

And so we order and put inventory against every single item that we launch.

Wow.

Right? And so it's not. It's a real thing.

And this is four times.

Yeah.

So that's.

I mean, that's four times. Well, actually, we launch monthly. It's like four times a year. But then we have to speed to market track and new colors all the time.

But we always get, like. We get amazing feedback two ways from the sales team.

One is after we do final investment For a season, we grab your sales leadership team and the merchants will walk through final investment quantities that we put on each item, engage sales leadership to understand if they're like that one, I think will do more, you might want to up that quantity. And so they partner together at that aspect. And then when we do training, which we were just speaking about, it's like a four hour meeting, right?

But we get all of this feedback from the sales team. You know, it's in startup, but we're.

It's a celebration.

It is a celebration.

We're like, it is.

All we heard was four hours.

I believe that that is. Everybody's one of their favorite times of the year.

It's four hour meeting.

So cool.

We have like hearts and stars or comments and people say, I know, hearts and stars sounds like a cereal, but it's like, no, but we get all these stars. We'll adjust our bike quantities based off of that meeting too.

Because it's not just the sales team that's in there, the planning team, the merchant team, the design team, the marketing team. And so when we get that in real time feedback, the product work is really good about taking action on it.

I love that so much.

It's so fun for your team to though hear to see the hearts and the stars and when it's coming through because you really have been working on it for so long and you. I know for our own projects we kind of, you sort of get a little bit like, yeah, well, we're tired so fast, right?

I know, so tired.

But then you get reinvigorated when you install it. So you're like, oh my God, that's right. This is beautiful. You know, a year later. So that must be fun.

Exactly. And I think as designers, we know that when we source something from forehands, it's going to come.

And I think 99.9% of the time it comes in perfect condition and it's high quality and that makes installs less stressful and the clients love the product. So I'm wondering, Adam, if you have ever chosen something, taken it to market and said this was a miss.

Yeah, totally. Do you know what I mean?

Do tell.

There's totally some things where you're just like, oh, God, what a dog. Do you know what I mean?

And like, you just see it and you're kind of like, when the editors come in, you kind of like kick it towards the corner or you try and hide it because you do get embarrassed. And I think that there are just like trends that we've all, like, kind of bought into over the years. Do you know what I mean?

No, I need you to tell me, like, one dirty dog that you're just.

Like, I actually have some good ones. Let me think about one. Well, one, I think a trend that I just regret in general is industrial. Like, do you know what I mean? If I. And I'm not kidding.

I've had nightmares about.

That was a while ago, though.

Do you know what I mean? Like, I hate a crank table.

You're done with them forever.

I don't ever want to see one again. And don't get me wrong, I get that, like, trends have to work their way into the middle.

And if you have a crank table in your home that you love, we also love it for you.

Love it for you. And you haven't seen it for as long as you've seen it. That's the thing.

Most people. If you drink on it, drink it high, drink it low.

Drink it middle, drink it show.

Don't get me wrong. Like, I say, buy what you like. I totally do. But, like, that I regret.

And of course, there's stuff that we're just like, you know, especially in hindsight, we're looking at possibly doing a fun thing for, like, our 30th anniversary. So we were looking at, like, ghosts of design past, kind of looking through all the archives, and there's a lot of things that are real. Yeah.

And we're just like, oh, we didn't always make the best decisions, but.

But with that stuff, that was when you were still doing the vintage pieces and nothing that you were technically designing or no longer.

Five years. I think we're five, six.

Yeah.

You were way far back. But, I mean, there are. There are some things that you're just like.

They were so of the moment, and I think that's what we're really trying to shift away from. It's not that those things weren't cool, because they did have a place.

I just don't ever want again to design a coffee table that you're going to hate two years from. Do you know what I mean? So, like, those things that are so of the moment, we just want to stay away.

Yeah. Yeah.

Josh, I do know that one of the pressure points is that designers want hand samples in hand of the finishes and the fabrics, and they're probably beating the reps doors down for that. How do you handle that?

Will Therapy?

No.

Vodka, right?

Whatever it takes.

No, I mean, it's a real need. You know, it's not a luxury. These are Things that you need to present to people. And we understand that.

What we're getting really good at is the textile sampling process.

So we are partnering with a third party fulfillment house right now that's helping us get to the place where, I mean, ultimately, you know, don't hold me to a timeline on this, but on our website, you will be able to order your own textile swatch and have that.

Super helpful.

Yeah, super helpful.

You can order it online now, though. So because we're producing the wallpaper in house, you can order a wallpaper swatch online.

I did. As we were walking through today, I wanted to just take my scissors. Is that okay to do when we tour?

Okay.

Okay, Perfect.

Okay.

But that does lead to this wall of red.

All the walls which we're going to B roll. You have to see it to see.

Except for that one.

It's a secret. It's a secret.

Top secret.

All of this in how you were discussing, like, the velvets are now going to be more of, like, performance fabrics, and everything you're doing is even more sustainable. So do you guys pay a lot of attention? Is that something you have done for a long time here? Is it a pretty green.

Yes. No, no. If you're trying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I definitely think so. With performance fabrics. Yes.

You're talking about cutting out the forever chemicals and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Sustainability is something that we're really talking about and have been for the past couple years.

It's a really hard subject to tackle without greenwashing. Right. And you also can't change your entire supply chain overnight. You know, those are just unrealistic things.

So we actually have someone leading a sustainability initiative in four hands. We've created very clear definitions on what that means for us. We've also never really shared what we're doing. That's so great.

We have responsible sourcing. Right. The way that we source product is responsible. So we've got really good social audits for all of our factories.

And there's all this stuff that we've been doing behind the scenes that we don't really necessarily talk about. And we're bringing that up to the forefront a bit more.

But to be fair, it's not something that you can just flip a switch and suddenly be sustainable, especially considering the industry that we're in. Do you know what I mean? But we're 100% taking steps forward.

I just got out of a meeting last week for a fall 26 release where we're developing special materials and new textiles and so it's definitely top of mind.

But I think, you know, we keep going back to culture and culture. But it sounds like this has been your culture just embedded in the whole time, I'm assuming. And, you know, it's getting.

And we're all just learning and getting better and knowing what we didn't know before. But you guys, I mean, even the woods for the frames and stuff like, that's source. All of the things you guys are already doing, it's not the imprint.

It seems less well for hands is. What I've always liked about Four Hands is it's a very responsible company. And in every aspect, we're good partners.

We treat our customers well, we treat our vendors really well. We have the best intentions in business. We're not cheats. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think Four Hands does that really well.

And honestly, that's a Matt Briggs thing. Right. You know what I mean? That comes all the way down from the top. But I think it's just a responsible place.

I love that.

And I also think, even if you didn't know about the sustainability piece, I think that's part of what you feel from the brand. It is. It permeates. And I think you already know that that's important because you feel it.

Yeah. And because, you know, you. You guys take the stuff from your library that's no longer and you give ut, you donate it all.

Like, this could very well just end up in a landfill.

It'd be easier to throw it in a dumpster.

It would be less complicated. But it's cool that somebody gets to use it.

It's incredible. And it goes are for the better. And then it just breeds just that relationship you're giving to them.

And those students get outta school and they already know Four Hands. They know it's a good folder.

So where do the samples go? To ut. To which department?

Merchandising.

Yes, merchandising.

Not fabric merchandising. I'm sorry. Like the merchandising departments over there. So they have like a tactile sense of things when they're using it.

That's really neat, though.

So back to you, Josh. Actually, I want to start with you, and I would like for you to define the forehand brand using three words.

Authenticity, intention, and is good vibes one word?

Yes, it is. I love that.

Off the top of my head, that's. That's, you know, not rehearsed.

But I think a lot could go into that, you know, and even Casey and I were talking about what's the next word for authenticity, because I don't want that to get overused. But it is a. There's a sensibility about it that you guys are experiencing while you're here, right? So I hope that it does come through.

What about for you, Brooke? What would be your three words?

That's a good question. I think the first one that pops in my head is creative and then supportive and open.

I like those. Those are good. Adam?

I would say, like, true is, like, a good one for me. Definitely creative and thoughtful.

I like that.

How would you define four hands, Kasey? Three words from a designer perspective.

I'm gonna take one from each. Cause you can see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good.

From a designer perspective. Supportive. You've said that, but it is genuinely supportive. Fun. Your pieces evoke fun in spaces, so you can go all in or you can have one.

Just this really cool chair that just stands on its own. And I think there's something's really neat about that. With a brand and cohesion, there's a beautiful.

There's no question everybody got ready in the same house, but it's not matchy matchy, you know? So it's. Yeah, those are my three. What are yours?

Um, well, I was gonna. Since I started with a question, I was just gonna kind of tell my.

Experience.

Because when I first found four hands, and I think this was 12 to 14 years ago, it. Y' all were still in the tiny, tiny, tiny little dungeon space. You know, now it's so to see you guys evolve.

But your brand, I would always think when somebody said four hands, I would think bachelor paddle. Like, that was what popped into my brain a long time ago.

And now four hands, no matter what the project, it doesn't matter if it's on the coast or it's a $4 million house in River Oaks in Houston, Texas, or it's anywhere in the projects we've done out of state, we always have four hands pieces in them. And I think, for me, those pieces look found. They look storied. They have this, like you said, authenticity to them.

So that would definitely be one of my words. But it's a very important brand to our firm, and if you look at our photos, you will see that.

And so it's been an amazing thing to watch from a designer side, so.

I completely, completely agree.

And having seen your pieces years ago in some of the, you know, the stores, like in Houston, you know, high fashion, we were able to find, which is fantastic because clients want to sit and touch and, you know, it does help them, but then to see where it is now and what you do for designers. But you still have the end user in mind. And so I know White Label was sort of the beginning of you, but.

Yeah, and can you talk about that a little bit? Because now you guys are all in four hands, but there's still a little bit of your, you know, your original.

Well, we. We were never. We were always like the brand behind the brands for a long time. Right. We never really wanted four hands to be a name.

Everything was White Label. We let our customers kind of like come in, grab the furniture, merch, however you want.

Can I pause you for just a minute? Can you explain what White Label is to the listener?

Sure, sure, sure. So White label is product development done by a brand that is under the flag of another brand. Right.

And so it's sort of essentially like, we'll make this for you, but you can call it whatever you want and you can put your name on it, and that's no big deal. And we were still making all these really cool assets and doing all these great things. We just gave them to everybody, you know what I mean?

Which is we still do, like, we'll share all of our assets, but we were never really looking for our brand to be a part of the conversation. We were really happy playing behind the scenes. And so we. But we ended up getting cool people that, like, y' all are cool.

Why aren't you not talking about this?

I think it was a combination of kind of critical mass of people understanding forehands as a brand. Once we did get out of the.

Bachelor pad phase, it was a lovely phase. It was just a niche.

I mean, everything got us to where we are now.

There's a lot of crank tables.

There were.

But it sort of caught up with us at the same time that we really wanted to step forward as a brand and we really wanted to engage with, you know, the editors. We wanted to get to know the design community at a whole different level, which includes the shelter publications and participating in show houses.

And people wanted to use our brand, you know, so our customers were telling us that they understood our brand, they had pride in our brand, they wanted to pass that on. They had customers that were coming to them and asking for forehands.

So it kind of met right at the moment where we were wanting to do it and the demand for it happened all at the same time.

Made sense.

Yeah. A lot of magical alignment stuff happens around here.

Our high flying discs are just everywhere. But when it. But you guys were designing this furniture with other people's names on it.

So since it's such an interesting, because some of your brain, I mean, I don't know if you're allowed to say, but there were some big names that would be surprising to people to know that maybe that wasn't their. You know.

You probably cannot share that.

What I'd like to say is if you own a piece of furniture, there's a really good chance it came from us.

I love that. In the last 30 years. I love that. So another part of your brand is that you are so generous.

And I think that generosity, Josh, comes through in how you deal with designers and designers who have big time firms, those who are just getting started. And your brand does some very cool things to support new designers. Can you speak to that?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we consider ourselves trusted advisors. You know, we're business consultants.

So we can work with a designer that's just starting out, you know, out of his or her home and whatever needs they have, and we can help guide them along and tell them, hey, you know, here's what I know about the next steps of your business expansion, what that looks like from my experience. And here's how you grow with forehands, and here's how you unlock more benefit of working with forehands as you grow.

So we can not only help them grow, we grow with them.

And I think to start to open an account, there's no minimum, right?

There is no minimum which is so gracious. I mean, we try to make it as easy as possible.

I mean, to your earlier point, you know, I know that for design firms, you can get the best product in the world, but if it's very difficult to work with that company and it's causing you and your client extra stress that nobody needs, then no more.

Right?

So we want to not only be the best design, the best value, the best quality, but also the easiest and most pleasurable to work with, the most reliable. All of these things that are gonna make your life easier, make your clients more happy, get you more referrals. Everybody wins.

Everybody wins. I love that. The clients, I mean, that's, that's the end result for all of us. The only reason we have jobs is the client and the homeowner, right?

So to make it easy for them.

And of course that easy for us means easy for them because we're not having to tell them we're so sorry that table, we're having to push back their install because it didn't show up.

Or these things or three weeks after install that, the tabletop is scratched up and come get this piece of furn. Like, those are the kinds of things that can make a designer just hate their job so much they want to quit. Or Thelma and Louise off the.

I mean, I just. Yes, those are the furniture.

But the emotion is real. But, you know, we live with the furniture ourselves.

We were talking earlier about we have an incredible employee program where we get to buy the furniture at an incredible discount.

Also generous.

So we are that customer too. We are also that needy customer. So we understand if it comes in and something is a little bit off, you know, we're relating to the customer.

We understand the way that people. We want to understand the way that people live and what makes their space more meaningful.

It's that.

It's just. It's a thread through your entire organization.

But even if we do get a call that the thing that something had gone wonky or that's the call that I'm like, oh, okay, cool. It's for hands.

Yeah. We call Tristan and it's. And it's right, it's done. It can't.

There's no question.

We'll take care of it.

You're like, wait, what?

Really?

This is gonna take the next six months of my life. So I'm up with you already, though.

Like, I don't want to come back to your house again.

Like, we're done. But that's like, oh, okay, okay, no problem.

That's okay.

Yeah, we can go. So what is next for Four Hands as a brand? And I don't know if you all three want to speak to that or somebody wants to take that, but what's next?

I mean, so many things. I can start off with one that I'm particularly enthusiastic about. But yeah, I mean, it is. We are busy people.

We are extremely busy and always trying to figure out the answer to that exact question.

But one that I can speak to, that by the time this podcast comes out we will have officially announced in the press, is that we're going into hospitality furniture. So we have.

Right? Yes.

People want to live in the environments that our furniture creates, and they want to live in those environments in hospitality settings and hotels and other contract settings. So we've already taken over a thousand of our existing and best selling designs and put them through contract taste testing.

Wow.

So we are launching at BDNY this November in New York with a booth for Four Hands Art Studio and a booth for Four Hands Furniture.

So we're two booths at bdny, which is a very Large footprint for any brand to be able to pull that off and be able to say at that market, we've already got over a thousand pieces in stock ready to go as opposed to. It's going to take us a year and a half to develop this for you.

And can I just say, I don't care if you're a commercial designer or if you're in the hospitality space. Here's what I'm telling you. Hospitality spaces are fugly.

And so all of us should be excited that we're going to be going to hospitality spaces that are amazing. And we're talking about hospitals.

That's right.

Waiting rooms for doctors. We're talking about all sorts of levels.

Of all of the above.

One of our mutual friends, Ariane, is doing a project right now for an assisted living facility that it's all about dignity and integrity and elevated living. And so she's populating it all with.

Four hands furniture and why wouldn't you?

Right?

I mean, absolutely perfect.

And it is such a perfect time for that. We just were talking and I think you're friends with or you all know Jessica Deuce, who is. You guys are part of her. Of vacation rentals as well.

Correct?

Yeah.

Which that is another incredible thing that you have done for designers because you help designers who deep, deep. Just not discounts.

Trade, trade, pricing. Great. Trade pricing.

That word and discount and authenticity. But she speaks to what that. And that's a new level for them. They're really going to start leaning into VRBOs that are accessible ADA.

Yeah.

And so it really.

This is.

What did she say something? Point 1.4 million people a year are researching ADA compliant like CRBOs.

I mean there is so for the massive market coming, who is really not sure how to design to that. This is just on the heels of it. It's just perfect.

Perfect timing.

So that's getting announced November, that is.

We've been on a press embargo on that until we officially start talking about it at October high point. And then after that quick follow, we'll have bdny. So we're going to be screaming it from the rooftops here very soon.

And what's next in art?

You know, I'm just always looking for more great talent to work with, but also just expanding into our current artist, Rossiter. Yeah, I don't know. Just good stuff is coming like always.

It's art.

It's always to piggyback off of the hospitality art studio is a big component of that. So we can do fully customizable projects qualified Customers can be part of that. Whereas we work with the 175 artists.

We have a huge library bank of work that may not necessarily be brand. Right. But we have stuff for almost every project.

But if somebody came in and they're like, I love this design and I've got this hospital or this. They can create their own. And you guys. Yeah.

And we have a team of art consultants that would curate the project because not all teams have that capability or that person on staff. So we'll take lookbooks or things like that and we can curate it. So just. I think that's an exciting part that we don't.

We've been doing, but now it's going to be really like a big part of, like, the conversation.

And just to point out, too, the wallpaper and the murals, those two are so exciting, so fantastic.

And some of the more pastoral looks that we've got coming out, some of the artists that we partner with, just blowing them up to these massive scaled art installations.

Oh, and didn't we have a recent project so that they ordered one of the. The patterns and are putting it all over a big project? Like, it's exciting. So it's just like.

And that artist must just be tickled. I mean.

I mean, yeah, all the wallpaper is.

Already tickled when they hear them now.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's just exciting to see that, you know, really getting out there in that way, too. And our artists are super excited about that too. Like, when they see their work in, like, comedy common space in a hotel, they get so excited.

Like, they'll text me and call and they're like, did you know this was here? And sometimes I'm like, no, because that's not my job.

But, like, yay.

Yeah.

What's next? I think this is the perfect place to end.

There's, like, so much good product stuff coming down the pipeline. But I think I'm really excited. So, I mean, we started. We did our first collab ever with Amber Lewis. Right. And that was awesome.

And also a little weird. Like, not really not weird. She's wonderful. But, like, not a part of our DNA. Right. Doing collabs or just not.

Like, everybody was just like, beforehand doesn't do collabs. And that wasn't true. I just don't know if we ever met the right person. Right.

That's it.

But it's been wildly successful and we have some amazing expansions happening next year that will be really exciting and just evolve the collection and tell, like, a much broader, more rich story. So I Think that will be really cool.

I love that.

That is so special. So with just really quick, because I am curious, when you are doing these collabs, is she. Because Amber Lewis and we have a.

And again, like we were talking about, every project has four hands. And a lot of them recently have had the Amber Lewis piece.

Love her pieces.

They're so special and intricate. Is that. That there is a collab?

Yeah.

And do you guys determine depending on the table or whatever the thing is where that is going to be made?

Are you.

Are there specific artisans for each different piece? Or is it sort of. You guys are so global.

It's material driven. Right. So I feel like we kind of talked about this like, a little bit earlier, too. Like, I'm really bad at this.

Like, when I look at a table, I'm like, oh, I know where that was made just by putting the materials. Right.

And so if you want something to have, when you're talking about the design and how you want it to feel and what its presentation should be, that will sort of lead you to certain materials. And those materials lead you to certain regions. Regions, Right. Or certain areas of the world where you could manufacture it.

And so a lot of that just comes from, like, we know we want to mix hard and soft textures or we want to mix blah, blah, blah, blah. And so those ideas about how final presentation being will, like, lead us in that direction.

So you have 13 manufacturing facilities, I think, that you use around the country. Around the world. Country. So you said you could name them, so I'm totally going to put you on the spot.

So India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand. Let me go throughout Southeast Asia really quickly. So India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, China. Smaller now.

Mexico, Argentina, Poland, Romania, us. Us. What am I missing? I'm missing two.

Did you say Vietnam?

Where are they?

Yeah, Vietnam's there. Hold on, let me look at my shelves. I'm cheating a little bit.

You did Romania.

I did Romania. Did Poland. That's where we're at in Europe. I'm forgetting, too.

That's okay. We can poll it.

That's okay. We'll put them in the show notes.

Yeah, right.

It'll be a guess situation. It Gwen's a chair.

Chair. A sofa.

A mural.

A mural. An installed mural.

No.

Oh, my gosh. My heart feels so full.

Yeah. We're just so grateful. But truly that we would. We couldn't have imagined having a day.

I mean, anytime, but a whole day like this with you guys, it's been incredible. And so is there anything you wish we would have asked Her. Is there anything you really wanna share? Because we there, you guys.

I mean, there's this stuff. So to dive into all this.

Is there something we didn't ask?

I just love. This is not a question, but I just want to just love the fact that you're reflecting that back to us.

That, you know, what we really are trying to do is to understand your business and to light you up like you are. Like I said, when the reps walk in the door, I want your eyes to light up. And I've just seen you guys light up all day when we've been walking.

Around campus literally dancing. Right?

It's true.

It's true.

Literally spinning around dancing.

This is the moment. So we're walking through the halls, y', all, and we come up into this room where there's just this gigantic screen. It's like stadium size.

And it says, welcome reframing the art of interior design. It was like this huge. And we were like. There were angels singing in the background. There was fetty.

It was just a moment of a full circle moment of generosity. Because we talk about you guys so much just in general when we're doing projects. So to be able to do this.

With you, that was just so fulfilling for me and I know for all of us just to know that we can be in such. So in the weeds of the work. But to zoom out and see your response to it was.

It's cool to be reminded of all the amazing things we're doing. Cause we can get so into the weeds of the everyday stuff. But to like be here and enjoy this and get to share this with you guys has been really fun.

Sit back and celebrate how hard you have worked and what it does for the people whose homes we are in. It.

Yeah, it's huge. So I do have a personal question for each of you before we go. What is your favorite? What do we want to know? Favorite. Favorite cereal?

What is your favorite cereal?

So boring. I really like Raisin Bran.

That's not boring.

Raisin Bran Crunch.

Oh, see that crunch is. Yeah. So it doesn't get mushy right away. It gives you time to eat it. Okay. What about you?

I am not a cereal adult. I'm more of a smoothie morning guy. But my favorite all time cereal as a kid was Frosted Flakes.

Okay.

I think it was just a sugar.

We're testing branding here, you Lucky Charms.

Mine's gonna sound like old person and cereal, but Grape Nuts. But it reminds me of some envious.

I know, right?

But it's Just.

You're welcome.

I think it's a.

We just made a relative.

It's a texture, I just have to say. Come from the most artistic. Like, sad. Like, so hip. She's like grape nut. And let's all just go by stock now.

Let's go buy stock now. Because it's going through the rib.

Yeah, there's a hip one set.

You don't. Do you eat cereal?

No, I'm a smoothie.

You're just a smoothie. I know, because I see. So I have to tell y'.

All.

So every morning, Casey has this smoothie that she makes, and it has chia seeds in it. So you always know if she's just. She's got chia seeds. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. You cannot keep this whole mess intact. I swear.

Mine has kale, and as I'm making it, I'm like, this is the equivalent of a massive kale salad in the morning.

Like, is this.

Should I be doing this?

Is this a good idea?

I don't know.

By the time I get to the office, it's just gnarly in my cup.

But, yeah, so I drink smoothies, too, but if I have cereal, it's Lucky Charms. And that seems so fitting for today. Lucky Charms.

Oh, my gosh. We are so.

Thank you guys again.

Thank you. So we could not finish this off with just Rainy and I doing our.

We just had to be able to celebrate everybody who either drove into Austin, who helps us with all of our stuff, and then, of course, the team of four hands.

Yes. And to wrap this up, I also have to say, this is Tristan.

And when we were talking in the podcast about reps driving up and us wanting to flip out the lights and pretend we're not there, anytime we see Tristan, our team is like, oh, she. And so thank you, Tristan, for being our four hands on the ground. And we adore you. And we could not do this without.

Holly and without Mariana and Megan and Connor and Tom and. Oh, my gosh.

And Liz.

All of us back down the deal. Yes, everybody.

So thank you for listening to our podcast and, like, share. You can follow me at Rainy Richardson.

Interiors, I'm Cassandra Underscore Brand, Underscore Interiors, and we're on Spotify, we're on Apple. Wherever you get your podcast, please listen because. And watch this one. This one one was actually really worth it. Worth it. All right.

Just for Rainey's dress.

Bye.

Oh, my gosh.

That's a wrap for this episode of the Art of Interior Design. We hope you had a blast and found some inspiration to bring your dream space to life. Feeling inspired to start your own home transformation?

Contact us@helloeframingdesign.com we want to help you make it happen in don't forget to subscribe, Share and leave a Review this show was edited and produced by Truth Work Media. Until next time, remember your space is your story. Make it beautiful.