Teachers are burning out. Classrooms are becoming harder to manage. And children are struggling to regulate their emotions in school. In this episode, clinical psychologist Dr Marianne Trent speaks with educational psychologist Dr Adam McCartney about what educational psychologists actually do in schools - and how psychological thinking can help transform behaviour, emotional regulation and staff wellbeing across entire school systems. Using real case studies from UK schools, we explore classroom behaviour challenges, teacher burnout, SEND pressures and practical emotional regulation strategies that help children and teachers thrive. Whether you're an aspiring psychologist, teacher, SEN professional, or simply curious about how schools support children's emotional wellbeing, this episode provides a powerful look at psychology in action.

Useful Book Mentioned in the Podcast: Gabor Mate, Hold on to your kids: https://amzn.to/4uhX30i

Highlights

1. 00:00 Why teacher burnout and behaviour challenges are rising in schools
2. 01:21 What educational psychologists actually do in schools
3. 04:27 Case study: a school system in crisis and how psychology helped stabilise it
4. 06:08 Why role confusion in school staff fuels burnout and conflict
5. 09:59 Supporting distressed pupils while stabilising the wider school system
6. 13:04 The power of systemic thinking in educational psychology
7. 14:38 Why reflective practice is essential for teachers and school leaders
8. 17:30 Case study: a “difficult” Year 4 class and emotional regulation
9. 19:11 Observing classrooms and understanding teacher dynamics
10. 22:14 Teaching emotional literacy through the classroom “corners” strategy
11. 25:23 Why teacher relationships regulate children’s nervous systems
12. 29:04 Why children sometimes seek attention from teachers
13. 31:59 Doing better when we know better in education
14. 32:03 What education might look like in the age of AI
15. 33:32 Why creativity, connection and collaboration will remain essential skills

Links:

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-mccartney-afbpss-647ab1221/

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Teachers are burning out. Children are struggling to regulate and increasingly whole systems are being pushed to breaking point. I'm Dr. Mariane, qualified clinical psychologist, and today I'm joined by Dr. Adam McCartney, an educational psychologist who works with schools at a systemic level. Together, we explore how educational psychologists actually think about behaviour, burnout, and regulation, and why supporting adults is often the key to supporting children. We're using case study examples to unpack what works, what doesn't, and how change really happens. Hope you find it so useful if you do, like and subscribe for more. Hi, welcome along to the show. I'm joined today by Dr. Adam McCartney, who is an educational child and community psychologist to give him his full title. Welcome, Adam.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for being here. We have been chatting in the DMs, so to speak, for what seems like many a year. And we will come on to think about you and your podcast and the work that you do later in the show. But for now, could you give us a little bit of an overview about what an ed psych does, if that's okay?

An Ed Psych's job is a bit like a piece of string, how long you want it to be. We have, in recent years, been almost shoehorned into this assessment process, mostly due to the SEND crisis. So we do a lot of assessments, statutory assessments. So anyone listening has probably watched the news at some point. There's been a crisis within SEND. My belief is that we are much more proficient if we get to tap into how we see the role. And one of the key things for me is working systemically. So I've spent the last four years trying to get that within skills and hopefully talk about that today. And I believe the power of educational psychology comes when we work through the school systems and the adults that occupy those systems.

Amazing. Thank you. I'm also reminded we had an earlier episode on the podcast where we were joined by another child and educational psychologist, Dr. Michelle McDowell. So if anybody wants more of an overview about career journeys and what that all looks like, check that out at the end of this episode. But today we thought it would be really nice to build on a similar concept to an episode I did with Dr. Jo about occupational and organisational psychologists, where we took more of a kind of vignette approach so that people are really getting a feel for the nuts and bolts of the kind of problems that an educational psychologist might come up with and how you think creatively to solve those. So you have a lovely Northern Irish accent, but you actually do practise and work in England. And we're talking about kind of state schools, I think I'm right in saying in England.

And so anything we speak about in terms of standard of education, anything like that, that is we're speaking from an English school perspective and narrative. I think I might be saying that you work with both primary and secondary schools, but actually you work up to 25 years of age. So you're thinking quite holistically about someone's education as well. Is that right, Adam?

That's absolutely right. We try to think about the child's journey right into adulthood. And quite often you can't just make that cutoff at 19 and say, okay, you're all ready for it. Sometimes you need an extra bit of provision, and that's why we work with people right up to 25 if they need the support.

Amazing. And actually when we think about our brain development, our brain isn't kind of considered complete until we've got our full frontal lobe capacity, which I believe kind of happens around age 25. So I love that you're all geared up to be able to support people until that age. I was very much a different person at age 18 than I was 25, and the way that I thought and interacted with the world and education was different as well. So with no further ado, shall we kind of tackle our first vignette?

Yes, please.

A primary school experiencing acute instability. The head teacher had left suddenly, early career teachers were close to resigning. Senior leaders were holding risk rather than leading, and teaching assistants were angry and disengaged after feeling consistently undervalued. Morale was visibly fractured. At the centre of this was the perception that the needs of two boys with significant emotional needs who had become positioned implicitly as the problem. Their distress was being absorbed by the whole system, creating fear, resentment, and burnout. Okay. So in this example case study, how would an educational psychologist begin to tackle this problem, Adam?

This is one of the trickier problems that an educational psychologist will come across because it's not very often you see a full school system in crisis. You'll see aspects of the system in crisis. And what was interesting for me was that it was rooted in these two boys as being the issue. And I simply asked, "Can I have a look at the whole school? Just let me walk around and talk to people. " Because I had a suspicion that a head teacher doesn't suddenly just leave unless something's gone awry. And thankfully they were okay with that. And so what I did is I took a holistic approach. I was like, these systems, these different classrooms, although they may not talk to each other the time, they're having an impact on the resources available. And you said in the vignette there, it was visible. The TAs were distressed and it was having an impact on them and they would move around the most within a school.

And my first clue was whenever I was walking through the hall and I seen someone crying. That doesn't usually happen day to day. You might get stressed, but you don't get tears. So after speaking with them and helping them come around, I got my first nugget. I was like, "Okay, people are feeling like they have to work outside the remit. People are feeling like they have to work outside their skill zone." So I then went and spoke with each of the teachers right from reception, right through the year six, and started to unpick what was going on for them. Why was this happening? And there was a few themes that came from that. One of the key themes was several of the teachers felt their skillset weren't being used. Most notably, there was one teacher who had a really strong background in supporting social, emotional, mental health.

She worked in a pre-bill referral unit, but she was kind of like left to the sidelines because her class didn't cause disruption, but they didn't invite her out in order to support the teachers who were struggling. And so she felt undervalued. And then you had a SENCO, special educational needs coordinator, trying to hold everything together and trying to find some way to get the teachers on board to support these two boys, and it wasn't happening. And then you had the TAs, different levels of skillset, different ... Some would see themselves as I work with the more able students in order to get them to be the high achievers. And others were saying, "I work with those who are emotionally vulnerable, taking out more pastoral role." And it became quite obvious that the role was not clear. And that bred resentment and some felt that they were having to step into the teacher role without any preparation or others were feeling like my skillset isn't being valued here.

Then I went and spoke with some of the senior leaders and they were going, "I'm senior leader by name. I don't actually do anything differently than the other teachers, but I would like to. " And I remember one of the teachers spoke to he had about 17 years of experience, not ridiculous. I was like, "Shirley, you be in a great position to mentor people and how do you set up classrooms and things like that. " And he's like, "I'd love to do that. " And then we had some teachers who were just on the verge of burnout and disengaged. There was a few nuggets of light in there. There was one teacher who still had the passion for creativity and she'd have her children doing all different sorts of things within their learning journey. The thing it took me the most was there was a group of kids outside drawing on the windows.

I thought, "Go, what's going on over there?" They were doing maths and I thought, "That's brilliant." She's find a way to make it more fun and engaging for them. And so she was very passionate about her role. And then I spoke with, well, the acting head at that point, who was very concerned about the impact on the community, about the role these two boys, because they got out into the community, these two boys were seen as the problem. And I first thought that came to myself is, "You can't fix a system in crisis without some stability." And it was a very hard decision that ... I mean, I say this in collaboration, but I don't think the school would have acted without my blessing. And it was to take those two boys out and do an intensive pastoral support. So they ended up being taught outside the classroom, which as an educational psychologist is really hard because we really live and breathe inclusion, but in order to get back to that point, they had to come out so that the teachers could have a bit of respite and stabilise that system.

And then it was about using what resources were available to upskill everyone and study the ship. So the first thing was get those boys sorted, have two skilled practitioners working with them. One was a very skilled teaching assistant in pastoral support, and the other was the Cenco herself, which is a big deviation from her role because you'd normally be trying to sort out EHCPs and review cycles. And I had a very tricky conversation with her like, "If you want to get back to normality, you need to change your role in the short term." And then we looked at the TAs and it was a case that they weren't having a space for reflective practise. They were very much going from crisis point to other crisis points and just trying to do the best that they could do. And with the blessing of the acting head teacher, I said, "I need some space with these people to have that reflective practise with a skilled practitioner who they can talk to about what they're doing day to day and the impact it has on the children." Which meant that then suddenly the senior leader who didn't have a role now had a space to give his expertise and listen to those coming through the pipeline.

And so he felt like he was being validated in his space and his practise. And then the teacher that I told you who worked in the PRU, I said, "You need to find some way of helping her feel like she matters in this system." And what they ended up doing was making her a senior leader. And I thought, that's a big jump from, you're sitting in the corner to doing that much to suddenly she was writing policies and things like that. And I went back and reviewed the case and everyone, now don't get me wrong, there are still issues, but everyone was in a better place. The Senko looks visibly more relaxed.

The teacher who did the pre work was just beaming because, although she had extra responsibilities, she got to muscle her creativity stuff. The senior leader that I mentioned, he was enjoying his supervision role and the other teachers just felt like everything was taken care of. Now, those boys still had issues and those issues, they didn't go away, but they were in a much better place and they were starting to come back into the classroom. And from my point of view, I felt like that was a huge win because one, I didn't actually do any direct assessment work. I only worked through the people. And what I did was I have my own consultation approach, it's called PIMS, which is psychologically informed management systems. And a key aspect of that is focusing on roles. And I was like, how does your role fit within this wider system?

How does it lead towards what is considered a shared goal? The shared goal in this case was creating a steady environment for education. And through consultation, I felt like I was able to empower everybody to do something small and meaningful to steady the ship. And for me, that is the power of educational psychology.

Absolutely. And you've so beautifully illustrated actually. I think the ecosystem of a school and how often our problem children can just be almost the product of a system that just isn't thriving. And I think what I was picturing is that everybody, other than the lovely teacher who had people drawing on windows, and I would be like, "I hope my child gets them as a teacher this year." But other than them, everyone else had had their drive just really diminished, really dipped. If we're thinking about compassion focused therapy theory, their drive was absent and they were just flooded in powerlessness and not able to feel a sense of satisfaction. And I think that's really, really important, especially when we're looking at careers where people are not being remunerated as much as they probably deserve. And so you need, I think, to be able to get that sense of job satisfaction, otherwise you quickly, you head towards burnout, don't you, Adam?

Very much so. And anyone who keeps an eye on the educational news knows that burnout is a really prevalent factor. There were some recent stats that said that 80% of head teachers experience significant stress, and about 60 of those or 60% of those think about, "Am I burning out? " And in my experience, the head teacher, once you see that happen in the head teacher, it filters into the rest of the staff team then. And so in our conversations within educational psychology, there's a big talk about the need for supervision for head teachers at least, designated safeguarding leads and teachers as a whole. Personally, I think anyone who has a professional background needs some sort of reflective space because we're all problem solvers. And in order to be a decent problem solver, you have to know yourself and you have to know what you're about.

And I think education has been neglected for a long time sure. You being a clinical psychologist, it's prevalent throughout the NHS that you get decent clinical supervision. And I don't see why education needs to be different from that. I work with some very good community organisations around supervision, particularly for head teachers, and we're trying to get a research project off the ground. And what we're focusing on is that impact of, does the wellbeing of a head teacher translate into the wellbeing of the school system? Preliminary evidence says, yes, it does.

Definitely. And it's making me reflect that on times when I've kind of stepped in when people have been on long-term sick and I've offered ad hoc supervision to different disciplines in teams. And they've always just been like, "Oh my God, this is amazing. Why haven't I been having this before?" It's that level of attunement. It's that level of safe space. It's not just case supervision that so much of supervision can be about. It's about supporting that person optimally. And I think you're right. Everybody in every job where you're kind of working to support others, where that has an impact on you personally and professionally would really benefit from reflective practise spaces. So well done for curating and creating that space for them. And that will shape them. They may go on to become qualified teachers themselves or they might just stay long-term in a school and that will become part of their culture and they will prioritise that for other people as well.

So it sounds like a great piece of input there. Well done.

Thank you very much. It was a very rewarding piece of work.

Perfect. Shall we, with no further ado, have a look at our second case study.

Yes, please. Let's look at the second one.

A large primary school requested support for a year four cohort that staff described as constantly unsettled. Teachers were reporting high levels of low level disruption, frequent peer conflict, poor attention, and escalating anxiety across the class. Lunchtimes were particularly difficult with minor disagreements, quickly turning into tears, arguments, or withdrawal. Staff felt stuck. They were spending increasing amounts of time managing behaviour rather than teaching, and several described feeling ineffective and frustrated despite strong classroom practise. There was a growing sense that nothing works and concern that the class was becoming labelled as difficult. So Adam, let's imagine this has come into you across your desk. What are you going to be doing with this school, with this class?

This is one that I love getting into because one, it still feeds into the systemic work that I alluded to in the first vignette, although it's not as high pressure in terms of how they turn around a full system. And it allows you, we just spoke about supervision. It allows you almost to do an intervention through a reflective space. So what I often do in this scenario is I work with the teacher after observing their lesson. So typically, well, someone might correct me on this, but typically an educational psychologist, if they're going in to do an assessment on a child, you might spend 15 to 20 minutes observing a child. The first thing I do is spend an hour observing this class to get a feel for what the transitions look like, what the atmosphere is like, what the teacher is like across that Irishpan.

Are they pretty chill the whole time? Is there flare ups of behaviours and how they responded? What is the dynamics between the teaching assistants and the teacher? And what sort of communication methods are they using? Do they rely on verbal communication? Do they rely on lots of little structured interventions or transitions? Or do they rely heavily on visual communication, things like PowerPoints and timers and visual timetables, just to get a feel for it, not from a judgmental point of view. Different classes need different things. And then I would take the teacher out, assuming that they can get supply teaching in place, and I would have a really in depth conversation with them. And one of the frameworks I use within the PIMS model that I told you about is how to empower a teacher. So we look at control, role, and identity, and we start off with identity because that is the journey of how you became a teacher.

So it's simple questions of, what made you get into teaching? What was your journey like? Did you enjoy your teaching practise? Did you have many opportunities for reflective practise or were you kind of thrown in the deep end? We know nowadays that there's about four or five different mainstream journeys into teaching. Most teachers I speak to go through the PGCE route. And then there's also direct school, I think it's called, brought in by Michael Gove. And then you've got the traditional, I'm going to go and get a university degree, a teaching introduction. And those different journeys have different benefits and strengths and skillsets, and I get them to reflect on what they're really good at.What do you find that's strong about your role as a teacher and what do you struggle with? Now, most teachers who go through the fast track or faster track scenarios tend to struggle with the SEND side of things because you have to get into the mindset of a student who doesn't process information typically.

And that's difficult, especially if you don't have ... In my case, I've got over 15 years of psychological background. I won't ask you, Mayan, how much you've got, just to be polite. And the impact that can have on one's ability to problem solve can be profound. Again, we said about supervision. Most teachers don't get the opportunity for high quality supervision, so they don't get to reflect on their skills as a problem solver. So this is the first space to do that. So that's the identity element. And then the role is, what should you be doing? Should you be doing something with these kids who struggle to process information or is it someone else's problem? And once you start to go through that journey and get them to think about, actually, maybe I should be doing something with them, and then they might be able to stay in the classroom rather than deferring to the SINCO or the head teacher or the assistant head.

They start to start to think about, okay, if I restructure the class, I've restructured the seating plan, I can start to work with these kids. One of the simplest ways to do it, because people tend to absorb psychological information better through experience, is I help them set up a transition plan. One of the things I do is I've adapted the zones of regulation for a whole class approach. And I say to them, "This is going to take up a lot of time, but it's a very, very useful method for understanding the emotional literacy and the emotional needs of your class." And it's where you put four different colours on the corner of the room, assuming you don't have a triangular room, but you put four different colours on. And green is for those children who feel regulated and ready for the next learning topic. Yellow is for those who are feeling a bit silly or a bit, not dysregulated, but on the verge of it and blue is for those who are feeling a bit low mood.

In red, this is the key bit. Red is for those who are on the verge of dysregulation or anger. And I say to the teacher, "Okay, you have independent strategies for yellow, blue, and green." So green is usually something curriculum based. I'm going to talk about history with a peer. I'm going to read a book that's curriculum based, something that's low demand, but slightly enjoyable. And then yellow and blue are sensory based or emotional literacy based. So it might be about talking about how they feel to a trusted peer or to a TA or teaching assistant who's available, or it might be, "I'm going to do some wall sits, I'm going to do some wall pushes, or I'm going to do something that's not distracting, but sensory regulating." And then I'm the red one, which is for those kids who are struggling to stay regulated, they sit with the teacher and it has to be the teacher.

The unfortunate thing about classrooms is every child knows the hierarchy of the classroom. They know the teacher is the leader of the classroom. And if the top of the classroom, the leader cares about you, you're more likely to stay regulated throughout the day. And this is the first thing it shows them. It's like, "I care about you. I'm giving you time." They sit and talk to me and that teacher learns to give them the words and how to regulate. They're also sitting with them and we know the adults can, helps the child be calm. And I say to teachers, "You got to accept your role as the third parent other than mommy and dad, typically mommy and daddy, you're the person they spend the most time with during the week." Usually, obviously there's exceptions. And not only that, that child then feels regulated and accepted and cared for, but the other children who are a little bit wobbly, but not to the point where they're disruptive, say to themselves, "That teacher cares about all of us because he or she is taking the time for the most tricky student.

If I become the most tricky student, I know they will take care of me. " And those things have soft, what we call soft systems impact, whereby they filter out and everybody's mood just starts to calm down. And it's heavy investment in the beginning, but as time moves on, those transitions become quicker and the teacher gets more and more back of the teaching time that they crave. And the best thing about this, I've done this across about 10 to 15 schools now, and about third of them have gone through the offstead window, and they've all come back as this was highlighted as good psychological practise that improves emotional literacy. So anyone listening who's a teacher, Ofsted loves this stuff. So if nothing else, at least it gives you that.

I love that. So the kids are physically moving around to those different coloured corners at the end of a task or activity. So thinking about whether you've done your book, your group discussion, and then literally at the end of every activity you're saying, "Right, it's time for our corners. Let's pick where we're at." Is that how it works practically? And if they're about to go out to break, how long do you give that, Adam?

So again, it's one of those things that's along as a piece of string. The first thing they have to do is they have to teach them the system. So the teacher has to dedicate time to be like, "This is how we're going to do our transitions." And they have to pick the best time to do that. And what I say to them is you do the transition for a cognitive load change or an environmental change. So an environmental change is coming in from break time, as you alluded to. A load change is when you're going from say English to maths, because for some kids, that's an easy transition. For others, that's the end of the world because they absolutely hate maths and they need some check-in. And as time goes on, you can usually, you might be able to drop some of the cognitive load changes like going from math to art might not be a big deal for the class.

So they go, "That's fine. We can drop that one." But you will learn that over time.

If you do it until the last kid who sits at red, so say for example, three children are sitting with the teacher, once that third kid is ready to return to the lesson, then the transition's over.That's the rule. And that can be difficult for some teachers to swallow because they're thinking, "I'm falling further and further behind with the curriculum." The sad reality is you're going to fall further and further behind with the curriculum if you don't do this, because this is a time investment. It's not a quick fix.You're looking to the spring and summer terms in theory that you will get that time back and your teaching will be much more on point, for lack of a better term. And that's how you manage the transitions. I

Would love to be a fly on the wall for one of these corner exercises. It sounds so powerful. In thinking a little bit about psychology and behavioural reinforcement, I could see that one argument about why not to do this might be that actually I'm going to choose red because I want that time with my teacher and then that will be reinforced or I'm going to kick off because I want that special time with my favourite teacher or I've not seen them for a week. Could you talk us through why ultimately, hopefully that doesn't happen, Adam?

The first thing is to flip the question is, if that does happen, is that a bad thing? Because if you want time with the teacher, you want to feel close to an adult, you want to feel like you have a relationship with them. The chances are that child has some other underpinning emotional need and the other chances are you'll be able to manage that transition very quickly. And if you try to put up the barriers, as I know you must go to this corner, then that child feels rejected, which defeats the whole purpose of it. The child has to feel accepted. And it could be as simple as a high five if younger kids might need a cuddle and then the teacher just says, "Okay, you feel like you're regulated or you feel like you're ready to return to learning, go on. " And they've had that connection and that's what children are looking for.

They're looking for that connection. And if you look at them neurologically, there's always three things that I always have My mind for children who struggle to regulate. And that's sensory development, language development, and relationals development. And if they're seeking out the relational stuff, probably give it to them because they don't feel regulated or they feel funny. It might not be obvious to us. But the thing is you're quicker to get back to the lesson if you give them that, that you care.

Thank you. That's incredible. And it reminds me, if anyone's interested in this kind of approach and this way of thinking about attachment, there's a really wonderful book. Well, I think it's wonderful, perhaps I'll ask your opinion on it if you've read it, by Gabor Mate called Hold Onto Your Kids. And it's really, really lovely. It's about the idea of emotional collection. And that applies to schools and education, but also me as a parent. Are we emotionally collecting the children that we are around or are we just expecting them to respect us and follow our rules? And I really love that idea. Is that a book you're familiar with, Adam?

No, but I'm starting to feel like I'm repeating what they've said. I swear I haven't stolen their ideas.

Shows that you know what you're talking about. And it's a nightmare when someone says, "There's this great book. Have you read it? " You're like, "No." It doesn't say anything about that you haven't because you're already talking the talk and walking the walk. But I think if anyone else is interested in this and they're not already in ed psych, they might well find it helpful to listen to that or to read a copy. I was telling you before we hit record, I tend to listen to workbooks, whereas actually you very much more prefer fact books and reading those, reading those. So we're all different, aren't we? And actually maybe as students, we'd have been different as well. It's just that I think the world wasn't quite as accessible when I was growing up. I'm 42 at the time of recording. And had I been able to listen to things more, I think that would've helped me loads, but it just wasn't.

But I think we're doing better now. We know better.

I think you're absolutely right. We definitely know better now. And the world is much more accessible. And I know we've gone through two vignettes, but the big thing that's coming through the pipeline is what does education look like in the world of AI? And teachers are trying their best to unpick what that looks like. The number of times I've gone in the school conferences and there's one teacher who's been pegged with, "I've got to do the AI session. I don't know what I'm doing." And I feel for them because nobody really knows what they're doing when it comes to AI or what it's going to look like. But the bottom line is it's going to have some sort of impact. And what people don't realise, or not everyone realises, is that relationships actually still are core to our journey through life, our journey through education.

And so although we're bringing in this tool that's very fantastical and shiny, you still need those relationships. And that's why everything I talk about is learning through connection, collaboration. These are going to become the core skills next to literacy and numeracy because this is how you access not only the workplace, but the learning environment. This is how you come up with new ideas. No matter how good AI gets, the human ability to be creative is unparalleled. And if we create an education system that matches that creativity and that need for connection, then we're onto something that's, in my view, beautiful.

Adam, it's amazing. I could talk to you for hours. Your curiosity, your compassion, your kindness, and your passion for what you do just radiates out of you. So it's absolutely lovely. I've loved today. Could you tell us a little bit about your new podcast that you've launched?

Yes. Thank you for asking that. It's called Between Two Psychs with myself, Dr. Adam McCartney and Mike Lane, who's my co-host. And we met in a local authority when we were both working in the north of England, and we just stayed in touch. And as the years went past, we started to think, there's not a podcast that's out there that supports teachers in the way that we would support. So we put our heads together and we decided we need to do this. And we came up with between two psychs. And the whole remit of it is that we want to give digestible psychology that teachers and a budding educational psychologist can use in their practise. So we talk about things like identity. We talk about things like burnout. We talk about things like what we call challenging behaviour. And those who are interested in neurodiverse conditions, the first three episodes are dedicated to how school systems work around that from the child right through to the parents and leadership.

So we try our best to pick topics that are relevant to educational settings and give little nuggets of psychology that are applicable and can be applied without having to open up a million textbooks.

Fantastic. It sounds like a really great resource. Where can people get their ears around that, Adam?

You can get it on any of your normal channels, whether it's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. I think we're even on Podbean, I believe. So you can get us on there, just type it in. And if you follow me on LinkedIn, I am always pushing it. So you'll get a link sent to you and your DMs if you say hello to me. And yeah, so that's where you can find the podcast. And if you want to book a consultation with me, you can get me on my website at www.dradamcartney.com.

Fantastic. I will make sure that all of those details are in the show notes and in the description. It's been an absolute delight. It's been really lovely having you on the podcast, and I would love it if people would expand the comments with love and support for Adam. If you've got any questions, fling those in there too. If you'd find a follow-up episode with Dr. Adam and myself, interesting, let us know which area you'd find helpful for us to discuss. Thank you again for your time and wishing you the very best with your podcast, Adam.

Thank you. And thank you for having me on.

You're so welcome. Oh my gosh. I honestly feel so energised after my chat with Adam. I feel inspired. I feel hope for the nation's schools. How has it impacted on you? I would love to know. Are you watching this because you work in education or because you want to? Are you watching this because you are working with children and young people in a clinical capacity or trying to kind of understand what on earth an Ed Psych does? I would love to know if you found this content helpful. So please do drop us a comment on YouTube. You can drop any comments or questions on Spotify. And I'm on socials everywhere where I am Dr. Marianne Trent. If you learn really well with case studies and vignettes and you are wanting to progress your career in psychology, then I think you'd also really love the aspiring psychologist membership.

We regularly look at clinical vignettes and thinking about formulating and ways to think around the problem, kind of relevant research, all those kinds of lovely things. You can learn more or ask me any questions. The details are www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk. And if you're just a big fan of the podcast and the show and of the content I create, you can become a member for the podcast, which will get you early access either on YouTube or on Apple, or you can join to be able to get exclusive subscriber only content with behind the scenes musings from me. That is available on YouTube and directly on Apple or on Captivate where I host my show. Thank you so much for being here. Your time in listening to or watching the show is so valued and I love doing this for you and with you. Love any ideas for future episodes you'd find helpful.

You know where I am.

If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guys. With this podcast that you said you'll be on your way to being qualified, it's the aspiring psychologist with Dr. Marian.