Environmental, social and governance (ESG) is a term used to represent an organization's corporate financial interests that focus mainly on sustainable and ethical impacts. Despite the war on “Woke”, ESG is here to stay and not just for large public companies. Christy Cook, an expert who focuses on ESG for small to medium size businesses, joined the podcast to talk about the subject and shed some light. Christy is an amazing resource, as is her business – InvestHER Strategies. We talked about the importance and permanence of ESG and some other issues, including:

• How to incorporate ESG into the fabric of your business
• Top 3 ways to scale from an ESG perspective
• Why ESG matters for businesses of any size
• BONUS: we covered some truly inspiring prompts for a daily journaling practice

I hope you enjoy this podcast as much as I did. Using our businesses to create an economy that works for everyone is why we’re here. If you are thinking about scaling your business, ESG is clearly crucial. So is IP, and if you want to know more about how to grow your business through your IP, contact me.

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Team Dklutr production

Hello everyone.

Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast.

I am very excited for my guest today.

Christie Cook.

Hi Cristy

Christie.

Hi, Erin and everyone

. Erin Austin: I'm super excited for

are very timely, but this one is particularly so because of some current

events around, Christie's expertise.

So we're are going to dig in.

But first Christie, would you introduce yourself to the audience?

Audience Yeah, sure.

So Christie Cook, as everyone has just been notified.

Yes.

I've been in the corporate sustainability space for about 20 years now, working with

large corporates, consulting, and I have really found my passion here recently.

and my goal is really working to help startups and small, medium business.

To incorporate ESG, it's really important.

They're less resourced and, hugely important.

And so I'm excited to get to use that expertise to help folks.

And, my company is named Investor Strategies, so yeah,

you'll find this audience is also, we're kind of full of of big

company people, refugees I'd say, who are using our expertise that we learn

there and translating it for a different audience, who doesn't have, in-house

people either in-house council or in-house ESG experts, which is, what

I love to do with these episodes.

So, ESG, just to repeat it for the audience that stands for

Environmental Social Governance.

So in my former life, you know, working with public companies, E S G was a big

topic, and certainly something can be covered in, public filings and the like.

Mm-hmm.

great.

And that's something we hear a ton in this smaller business entrepreneurial world.

but it's certainly in line with the mission of this, podcast, which is

to create a more equitable economy.

And so we're gonna talk about the concepts as they apply to this audience.

But first is a bit of background.

Tell us how ESG shows up in those larger public

companies.

Oh my goodness.

The large public companies, huge.

and in many cases they've been working on this for some very long time, some

20 years, you know, it's evolved from the words corporate responsibility,

corporate social responsibility, sustainability, and while each

of those are actually different.

Basically the common thread is that large corporates have been

doing things around the environment and diversity and the governance

of those issues for a long time.

in many ways, and where it's showing up now specifically too, is a lot in

supply chain that's mostly related around carbon as well as, human

capital, how people are being treated.

and so those are some very common ways.

It's showing up right now.

. and, you know, ESG really started how it emerged.

Really a framework for looking at, risk and performance really

from a financial standpoint.

So, if someone's investing in a company, what are the risks

associated in those three categories?

And it gives 'em a framework to really look at.

. And what we're seeing now too is just an evolution of doing it for many reasons.

One's political pressure, political meaning from their

board or even from customers.

so that's one way that companies are experiencing that right now a lot of

regulatory compliance is happening and, again, The war for talent,

you know, attracting and, retaining those employees and also really

looking at growing your business.

right now if you're gonna grow your business, you've gotta

be prepared to talk about the things you're doing around E S G.

it's starting to be required in RFPs, so request for proposals.

if you're gonna bid with a large corporation, you can see that as well.

So those are a couple of ways.

It's showing up in the world right now and a little history of how we

are, where we are in a high level.

Yeah.

Well that leads me to recount a story that I heard recently from a friend,

and I'll make sure I don't get it wrong.

He said this, this was about his decision to change his

major from economics to English.

Mm-hmm.

, he said the great Milton Friedman came to my college and

addressed the economic club.

He was bragging about his pivotal role in Nixon's wage and price controls.

I'm, I'm a woman of a certain age, which addressed the problem of inflation

by intentionally throwing the country into a recession in the q and a.

I asked him, since the government intentionally caused the recession so

as to benefit the many, what was the go?

Moral obligation to those who lost their employment due to the recession.

His answer was there was no moral obligation.

I knew then that economics was not for me.

And you know, this was the seventies I'm thinking.

But today, more than ever, you know, consumers care.

Yeah.

Employees care.

All the things you just said.

And for better or worse, our corporations and our employers kind of reflect the

way that we view the world, right?

Yes.

And, to share our values.

So one, why is this still.

of controversial.

Uhhuh, and two, do you think that corporations, as he was talking

about the government, do corporations have a moral obligation regarding

the externalities of what they do?

Great questions.

It's so exciting too, by the way.

You know, I think one of the things that's happening right now, obviously

you used the word controversial and it's true, but why is it controversial?

It's controversial because we're hearing things and we're seeing 'em in the news.

We're seeing things on social media, and the biggest takeaway

to know is everyone can have.

Agenda and different agendas, but the solid takeaway, no matter

what, E S G is not going away.

Okay?

That's the bottom line, and that's what people need to know.

There can be different, people in groups that, are supporting a

certain interest here or there, but please know it's not going away.

a couple of things about why it's not going away and why you need to

prepare, because I always, look, I've been in corporate sustainability

for a little over 20 years, and.

When I'm looking to see what's happening in the US I start looking

abroad and what I normally see is there's about a three year lag time

between what's happening in the UK or the EU and it coming here to the US.

and we are in that timeframe right now, and the EU has some strong regulations

that have been in place for some time.

And 2024 is the first year of reporting that these large corporations are

going to be doing this for 20, 25 year.

. And frankly how we see that showing up here in the US is really in two ways.

One is large corporates, they're global.

They have to comply with these regulations, and what that means is that

it comes here in the US and it impacts others all within their supply chain.

So if you're working with a large public, which is where

it really starts in most cases.

It's there, you're going to have to be prepared for it.

So the opportunity that I see for small and medium companies right now is,

it's not required, but you're gonna start to feel pressure, particularly

from these large Publix, get ahead of it, figure out what you need to

do, and you're gonna be better for it and stronger in the long run.

So that's really the first thing of how I see things happening.

I think the second part of that, and how we're seeing this come to fruition though,

is we now have, this, carbon accounting, this carbon disclosure requirements.

It's in the SEC right now.

It's a rule that has been out for, a while now.

It's still in comment period.

But what it's going to require is very similar to what's happening

with the eu, where large publics are gonna have to disclose.

and likely that'll start about 2025.

And, you know, everything's a little bit of a guess, but that's where it's coming.

So again, it's not going away.

Yes, there's a lot of people that have a lot of different opinions on it,

but the takeaway is to get prepared, because it is coming and we have an

opportunity to do some really cool things.

I asked myself this like, one of the things is I think if you ask someone,

Hey, do you want your company?

Do you want the economy to do well?

Do you want people on the planet to thrive?

Yes, is the answer.

So this is why ESG matters.

It's why sustainability matters and why people in companies can take part in this.

And, one other part, kind of to your question.

You asked about companies, and I really touched on that a lot.

But you're also seeing this in government and it's really a crossover

of how it impacts, corporations as well, because we've got executive

orders that are out requiring this.

So if you're a company that's looking to work with the government, you're

gonna be required to do this as well.

So, multi-pronged approach that's happening here in the us.

. Erin Austin: Yeah.

I you mentioned a couple of things.

You know one about how the EU is leading the charge on a number of issues.

You know, we saw this with data privacy.

Yes.

Where they had much, greater data, privacy issues over there.

Over here.

Still, taking your information, doing whatever the heck we want to with it.

And finally, that caught up with us.

and we really haven't caught flatfooted, frankly, because we

don't have a nice federal law.

We've got all these different state laws, which are a bit of a mess.

but to be able to, say that you can comply at that highest level definitely

gives you a leg up . And then the other thing is being part of that

supply chain, you know, as someone who reviews, contracts from, big corporates

to, smaller service-based businesses and the size of them, I actually.

I think it was today, I, wrote a, piece about the, emergence of the

100 page MSA, which is Oh yes.

Cause of all these things that they want you to comply with and it

will be not at all unusual to have.

Entire exhibits about ethics, compliance and all these things and as they are more

required, I'm sure, at the public company level to report, their ESG, initiatives

that they will wanna make sure that everyone in their supply chain is clean.

You know, nobody wants to get caught.

thinking, I think it was a Cambridge Analytics that was a

couple years ago who Facebook was using and Cambridge Analytics.

doing all sorts of crazy stuff with data and they don't wanna get caught up with

that cuz the people will be canceled.

Right.

We know that information spread so quickly and people do.

protest with their wallets.

And so just be ready for that,

For sure.

Yeah.

And I, think you bring up two points I'd like to comment on is, I've

worked also with, an environmental tech company and one of our large

enterprise clients, is a large global, Web-based technology type company.

The very first master services agreement we had with them was three pages.

When we went through the renewal process, just the data and security was 18 pages.

Yes.

. And, yes.

It was part of, some of the more stringent.

Things around data and privacy and security of course,

which is also part of E S G.

Mm-hmm.

, by the way.

Mm-hmm.

not everyone thinks about that, but that is actually part of ESG is data

security, the protection of, identifiable personal information for people.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

but yeah, for sure.

So I just think that's so interesting and, if you really.

And part of it is my feed, my newsfeed, right?

The algorithms work.

But I probably see two to three stories every day about another company that

has, been fined or been identified for, not meeting some regulations

that they thought they were meeting or perhaps it was intentional.

There's a lot of different ways this happens.

but it's way more commonplace.

It really is.

So gotta pay attention.

yeah.

Speaking to the three page versus the, hundred page m s a, I've been working

with this one professional services firm for about 10 years, and at the very

beginning, most of their clients, like 99% of them would just sign the quote.

Like they'd send over a quote and they'd sign it and they'd

go and That does not happen.

Not anyone, not any longer

so speaking of the controversy, I just read an article,

about the co-founder of Home Depot, who was complaining about woke diversity in

his words, because it doesn't benefit the bottom line and that pursuing

these ideological agendas is at the expense of solid financial returns.

So do the number support his contention?

E S G doesn't benefit the bottom line.

No, is the short answer, but I think that the

important thing that anybody should take away is, I think you can find

a fact and an argument to that fact.

everywhere.

You can, I think in some ways it's, the quality of the assessment.

you can make data do almost anything if you want to, But at the same time,

I think that , the clear answer is, again, if we want people in the planet

to thrive, obviously we have to do it in a way that makes financial

sense because businesses have to be in business in order to do good.

So in no way is this saying that you should, do something at the expense of,

your business being sustainable in itself, that's definitely not what it should be.

But yes, the numbers show, That you're going to attract more talent.

You typically will retain that talent.

You are going to attract the customers that you want.

these numbers just prove it.

And another area that I would say that's, Emerging even more.

And as, as important as you're scaling up, I think, that's

a lot of what you talk about.

Right?

And I do too.

But when you're scaling up, it's important to realize and understand that financial

institutions are looking at E S G.

100% they are.

And.

78% of companies that have E S G are more likely to get funded.

and what I mean by the specific statistic is that 78% of investors are

looking to ensure that you have E S G in the foundation of your business.

And again, that's important because.

If you're trying to scale up, you're likely trying to get funding.

You need to scale a team.

Let's attract and retain that talent.

You need to have consistent revenue and growth.

Well, let's make sure customers wanna buy.

And you know what?

Let's avoid that regulatory risk and fines.

So have your E S G practices in place.

I know it's complex and it can get even more complex.

It can't, but you know what, it doesn't have to be that way.

So do something.

One other point, I would just say, and maybe this is my high horse, but I

hate this term woke and how it can be used in a lot of different ways, but

ultimately, don't we all wanna know more, more information is powerful.

so.

I hope I continue to learn more.

And you know, if you're going to call that term woke, I just think it's

intelligence, and wanting to strive to always learn something because I

learn something every day, frankly.

And, it's one of the journal questions that I ask myself every day too.

What did I learn today?

Whether it's a statistic or something personal, but I think we

should always be striving to learn.

. Erin Austin: I love that.

I love that you journal about what you learned each day.

I try to, journal about gratitude.

yes, but, I learned today.

I like that one.

Sometimes they're surprising

but it's a quest to, Know myself better, be better, and do better.

And, if you're not asking yourself those questions, you can miss it.

And I think it's important.

It's been really eye-opening for me, so that's fantastic.

So let's talk about what you do specifically with your clients.

So who are they, what pain are they feeling that they say, I need to talk to

Christie, and how do you work with them?

Great question.

you know, the pain is in some ways what we've talked about already.

I'm really focused right now on startups that are scaling.

And the reason why is, you know, in a perfect world, I would love

to see more women and people of color receive more funding.

even.

Typically, these are businesses that are focused more on people in the

environment, which I care deeply about.

So it really aligns, to what I'm trying to do.

But ultimately, E S G is important for everyone.

So I am focused on startups and helping them build that fabric of E S G in

their company as they're scaling.

And again, I think it hits four business issues immediately.

better prepares them and positions them to get funding against

others and get more funding.

revenue growth through customers attracting and retaining talent,

and also that regulatory compliance.

And the way I try to work with these companies, especially the startups and

the small businesses, is, you know, They may not have the technical knowledge,

they may not have the expertise.

They're very focused on their core of what they're trying to accomplish.

So I try to make things as simple as I can by helping them understand the

most important issues that they need to focus on and how to implement those.

And what I have found is if you start your business in that way, , it creates

and fosters growth in those areas in the future, which is also important.

So that's kind of like, thinking about this, you don't have to

be doing this for 20 years.

We all start somewhere.

So start where you are.

And that's what I help clients do, understand where they are,

what the most important issues are, how to address those.

And where that comes down is it helps 'em understand.

How to talk about E S G, fluently and how it relates to their business.

Exactly.

Again, what to focus on, how to measure performance, because

that's really important.

You've gotta be able to talk to your customers, your clients, even reporting

on what you're doing, why as well as the investors and report progress over time.

So I try to simplify that for them and provide a model and process

that can be repeatable for them.

in a way, again, understanding the amount of time they have to focus on E S G.

it's not separate, but it's often viewed that way.

So I start by educating and it becomes a real fabric of who they are and

what they do as a company that's,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Integrating it as part of their operations and not exactly doing

this thing over there that you do.

Yes, yes, yes.

Absolutely.

You know, you mentioned something earlier, the switch from, the major from economics

and one of the things that's happening right now that's really impacting

particularly small and medium businesses, but, 20 years ago when I started in

this, there really wasn't a degree.

And sustainability or E S G.

Mm-hmm.

. And a lot of it was learning in your operations.

and applying that.

Well, there's a lot more of that today in that you can get different, more

certifications and different programs.

But what we're seeing is a lot more, College students coming

at this from a data standpoint

That's great.

especially with the amount of reporting and the requirements, it's imperative,

frankly, but what I'm seeing and how that happens, and especially

in small and medium companies, is.

You get these college graduates, they know some things, don't get me wrong, but now

you've put them in an organization where perhaps the C-suite and board want E S G.

They don't quite know what that means.

They can't provide the guidance on that.

And you have this person that's typically passionate about this topic, but without

guidance and leadership and where to go.

And so that's one of the gaps to some degree that I'm seeing mm-hmm.

. it's unfortunate because also that person who's doing the work, it's

a disconnect in the organization.

They feel like they're not quite accomplishing what they want.

Mm-hmm.

. And in the long term, if that person isn't successful, if they can't manage

a complex organization where you need all this buy-in, but no one reports

to you and it's not their day job.

Right.

It's difficult and it actually leaves a mark in the company of

maybe this E S G doesn't work.

. Mm-hmm.

kinda thing.

So that's one of the things I would.

Say that I'm seeing, I'm gonna be interested to continue to watch that

and see how it progresses over time and.

That's part of the reasons why I like to work with the companies.

I think mentoring the small and medium companies, mentoring these folks, helping

them understand, some would even call it soft skills, but how you navigate an

organization, how you create buy-in at a C-suite level and what you push for

and how you have different conversations are skills that aren't always taught.

And, it's something that's incredibly valuable to the

work and the impact of the.

Yeah, there's definitely a transition that I've been seeing

for the last several years about the unsiloing of different departments.

You know?

Yes.

The legal departments just siloed.

You only talk to them if something goes wrong.

Communications is siloed.

You only talk to them if you got some messed cleanup or, for your

social responsibility group, you know, they're over there.

sponsoring some kind of charitable thing, . Right.

but bringing them all in at the earliest stages.

Yes.

So that they're all working towards the same goals there's definitely a lot of

that happening, which is great to see.

And I think that's more, but you know, the 21st.

Century model than the absolutely century model.

So that's great to hear.

Absolutely.

Well, that, that brings us too, the Hourly Exit podcast, , you know, helping to

build a scalable and saleable business.

And so there are a lot of ways you've talked about.

That would be instrumental in helping an expertise-based business.

That's mostly, you IP-based business scale.

Right.

so there's a lot of 'em you can cover.

So, talk us through like three of them, the top three that

you think might, might top

three actions that you would suggest.

Absolutely.

the number one thing that I hear is often, well, I don't know what to do or how to do

it . So, first I would just say I actually have some free resources for that.

So folks can look at that on my website if they like.

But ultimately, you've gotta do something, right?

So what do you do?

let's just say, we'll talk about one item in each category.

You really, for the environmental standpoint, you've gotta look at carbon.

because you are likely in someone's supply chain somehow, whether

you're service-based or goods based business, it's gonna be required.

So you've gotta start thinking about that.

and in the social area, always diversity, you we've gotta look at that and some of

the biggest ways, especially if you're looking at scaling, I would say make

sure your board is representative of a diverse organization as well as your.

Mm-hmm.

. But, that's important.

And governance, governance is how do you make sure you continue

to do things, in the way you're intending, you get no surprises.

The risk and, the thing

that, but I stop you on the governance piece Please?

Like, what is the connection between governance, which I think is just

like kind of corporate governance minutes and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And kind of sustainability,

This is what I think.

I think, FTX has been in the news a lot.

Ftx is, Sam Bankman Fried, right?

Yes.

And he is the guy who is in jail now, currently or I think he's actually home.

, yes.

Jail.

But, he's been arrested.

And part of this all has to do with.

How he managed the business.

Governance oversees the safety of that business.

Essentially, if there is good governance, those things

wouldn't have in theory happened.

Now how this applies too, that's like, bribery money laundering,

all these things should be basic.

of how you run an operation, a company

not committing crimes.

Yes.

It's not committing Fundamental, yes.

Is definitely part of sg.

and the governance is really some overseeing of that.

And so, That's a very businessy way of looking at that.

But the way it's evolving for E S G and, there's a lot of risk and I'll keep

talking about supply chain because it's one of the top risks that people are

thinking about right now and looking at again, because of carbon and because

of, human capital, how people are treated, throughout the supply chain.

But if you set a standard, you have to be able to.

Oversee it.

You have to have something that's measurable and you have to report over it.

And that's part of the governance and the oversight that happens.

and it's really an agreeing upon this is how we're going to do business

and understanding that those are your guiding principles of it.

That's how I think about it and the importance of governance.

You'll also see a lot of, data security, in governance as well.

It kind typically falls under that, but, again, that's, important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you for that.

So, You know, this is a very meta podcast.

You know, I am the female founder of an expertise based business, and I

am growing to hopefully sell someday.

So I must ask you, as the female founder of an expertise based business, are

you thinking about, selling it someday?

Is that anywhere on your radar?

Do you have an idea about what you might do if you weren't doing this

so interesting.

I definitely do.

And, I believe that, folks don't always agree with me because

E S G is very complex and.

I just think sometimes we overcomplicate things all right?

And I think it varies by where companies and people are in their

maturity, but I think that, part of what I am creating is this process

and this, repeatable, way of doing things that can really simplify things.

, and frankly, no one else is doing it right now.

No one else is helping the startups in small and medium businesses.

Maybe people don't think that's where the money is at, but my gosh,

that's where our world is and focused on, and that's a large part of it.

So let's do that.

I am very interested in continuing to grow because I do think that.

Approach is slightly different in my processes.

and my biggest thing is impact.

So how can we have exponential positive impact?

And you can't do that without in my opinion and the way I like to guide

myself, but is looking to the future.

And part of that is, , how do we, again, scale into a large saleable

business and really excited about, just recently approached by an organization

that's really focused on that.

And so it's kinda exciting to mm-hmm.

think about it in that way, and even potential perhaps

sooner than later, but yes.

Wow.

That is exciting.

Well, you talking my language.

increasing impact by creating a scale of business.

We know that there's only so much we can do on a one-on-one basis, right?

And so at some point we have to expand beyond ourselves, whether it's through

employees, if that's your thing, or through some sort of, products or

other ways of, leveraging our talents.

And, so I love to hear that.

That is great.

So as we wrap, three final questions.

so, creating a more equitable economy is something that is

very important to us here.

And so is there a person or organization that is doing work in this area

that you'd like to share with the

audience?

Oh, absolutely.

So, the organization that I, wanna talk about is called Bandar.

Nlu and it well before this

in the show notes, everyone, so we can,

yes.

Awesome.

You'll see the website.

I love the organization for many reasons.

One, The founder is also a former boss, so I know her very well.

Mm-hmm.

I know what she's trying to accomplish and do.

So it's just really great.

But her name is Deborah Hecker and she founded Bandar and Belu

and she founded it because the organization really does two things.

One, there's waste reduction component.

And what I mean by that is, 85% of all clothing in the US either goes

to the landfill or is incinerated.

Mm-hmm.

, it's huge.

Mm-hmm.

and what she does is repurpose sorrys.

So sorrys are a traditional Indian and other culture, garment that is worn.

And she takes these garments and with a group of volunteers, they.

Animals and jewelry and purses.

Just really cool things that are repurposed that you can buy.

And it goes in support of improving graduation rates for girls in India.

Wonderful.

Because we know that if girls succeed, community succeed,

families succeed, they're, higher levels of thriving in the world.

And so it's a great organization.

I would just encourage everyone to go check it out.

. And I, I think one of the cool things that's happened recently in some ways is,

Tamara Hamlin, you know, he had, I think a GoFundMe for a couple of thousand dollars.

That's now over 9 million.

Yes, this is a small organization with dreams.

How about that?

So help, girls in India and reduce waste and check out Bandar and Belu.

I love that, that directly hits our theme, which is, wealth in the

hands of women can change the world.

You Cause women provide more for their families, for their communities and, some

people don't take space flights and with, with their , they, fund, school programs.

So that's another story.

uh, so I love that.

so.

anything new happening in your business?

And is there any kind of offer that you'd like to share that would be of

interest to, to the client?

Oh, great, great.

I'm so excited.

I forgot about this.

This is exciting.

So, yes, I do have a, it's new, it's here in the spring.

and so I have a course.

That is available particularly for startups.

to really help them implement the e s g practices they

need in order to get funding.

So check out my website, invest her strategies.

That's invest.

H e r mm-hmm.

. And I know the links will be Yes.

We'll be here Erin.

So thank you for that.

but that's, really what I'm focused on right now because, I just saw

an article this week, basically over the last several years.

3% of funding, a little less than 3% has went to women.

That's now down below 2%.

And so at 1.9% now, is an article I just saw.

So let's do some good things here.

Yes, let's implement some E S G practices.

Let's make sure that companies with, good ways of working are thriving.

So check it out and, I'd be glad to chat with anyone.

Yeah, the clients.

Right.

Clients that care about E S G are the clients that you wanna work with.

Those are the ones that Absolut great partners for you.

So yes, that is great.

So, we know we can find you@investorstrategies.com.

Where else can people find you?

You can find me on LinkedIn.

that's probably the best place to find me if you're looking to chat and, of

course my website, so, yeah, absolutely.

Awesome.

Thank you so much for being with us Christie.

So much wisdom shared.

Much

appreciated.

Thank you so much fun.

I hope that, the listeners get something out of this and, it was fun.

Thank you Aaron Aaron.

Hundred

percent.