Shownotes
Hi there and a very warm welcome to Season 5 Episode 52 of People Soup – it’s Ross McIntosh here.
P Soupers - I've got a treat for you this week - a few weeks ago I had a chat with an NHS Doctor who is also a Best selling Author, TV Doctor, Bafta award winner and P Soupers - he's only been on Strictly too! It's Dr Ranj Singh. In our chat we talk about how accustomed he is to receiving feedback, his mindset of exploring new opportunities, his creative sidestep into media and writing books and his role as sleep and wellness ambassador for Furniture Village. We talk about his value of helping others and explore the universal topic of sleep from a variety of angles. Of course - Dr Ranj also selects his song choice and leaves us with a top tip.
People Soup is an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioural science, in a way that’s practical, accessible and fun. We're all about sharing the ingredients for a better work life from behavioural science and beyond.
There is a transcript for each episode. There is a caveat - this transcript is largely generated by Artificial Intelligence, I have corrected many errors but I won't have captured them all! You can also find the shownotes by clicking on notes then keep scrolling for all the useful links.
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Transcripts
DR RANJ AUDIO
[:[00:00:06] Dr Ranj: when I was growing up, we, we grew up in a fairly traditional household. I will say my parents are both Sikh and very much one of the core tenets of their faith is service to others. And I think I've kind of been brought up in that environment to, always think of the value and importance of helping others, whether I'm doing that through my medical job, um, which is very much a direct approach with people, or whether it's promoting health topics on television, or whether it's doing campaigns with, organizations.
[:[00:01:01] Ross: P supers. I've got a treat for you this week.
[:[00:01:31] we talk about his value of helping others and explore the universal topic of sleep from a variety of angles. Of course, Dr. Ranj also gets to select his song choice and leaves us with a top takeaway. For those of you who are new to PeopleSoup, hi, hola, welcome to the community.
[:[00:02:16] Thank you
[:[00:02:23] Claire Stafford from York said, I really like this Ross. Carrie came across as so genuine, and it was so clear to see that she was epitomizing what it was to be human. And, as always, your support, curiosity, and genuine interest was so apparent.
[:[00:03:00] Dispatched by my 89 year old dad, Big G, in the Global Distribution Center in the Northeast Powerhouse. What more of an incentive do you need to write a review? The first bookmarks have been dispatched, so Dad is now on the edge of his seat ready to prepare the next batch. Enough excitement for now. Get a brew on and have a listen to my chat with Dr. Ranj Singh.
[:[00:03:31] Dr Ranj: Thank you so much for having me.
[:[00:03:45] Dr Ranj: I'll take that as a compliment.
[:[00:04:03] Dr Ranj: That's, I mean, that's pretty much most of my CV there, I think. Yeah, that's, I'd say that's fairly, fairly accurate.
[:[00:04:30] Dr Ranj: Yeah, I've, I've, I've had a quite a varied and eclectic career, I would say.
[:[00:04:53] Dr Ranj: Yeah, there was that, that one, that was quite a while back. We did that, um, just. I think it was about 2019. That was, I'm very lucky. That was a Sunday Times bestseller. And then, um, just as we came up with the pandemic, I wrote a, growing up guide for young boys called How to Grow Up and Feel Amazing. And that became a Sunday Times bestseller as well.
[:[00:05:18] Ross: Blimey. And there's a collection for kids as well, a three book set with titles are A Superhero Like You, A Superpower Like Mine, and A Superfamily Like Ours. Blimey. And then, as you've already mentioned, How to Grow Up and Feel Amazing, The No Worries Guide for Boys. And I was reading the reviews of that this morning, and it was like tremendous.
[:[00:05:42] Dr Ranj: Thank you so much. I'm just. One, grateful to have had the chance to do something like that, which I'm really passionate about. And secondly, very, very thankful to people who read them and found them helpful, I hope. Um, and getting nice reviews is always, is always lovely.
[:[00:06:05] Dr Ranj: Yeah, that was, that's a mind blowing amount. but, um, yeah, I'm extremely grateful to those people for leaving those reviews, because it's nice, I think for me, it's always lovely to get compliments, but for me it's nice to get feedback. To, um, am I, am I barking up the wrong tree here? Or is there something I could do better?
[:[00:06:29] Accustomed to receiving feedback
[:[00:06:39] Dr Ranj: yeah, interesting that I think I think it comes from me and my job as a doctor. We're very used to and very accustomed to getting feedback because that is how we improve. and our, our focus is always to try and be better and try and do a better job. so that culture is very much built into us, I think so.
[:[00:07:21] Yeah. Yes.
[:[00:07:35] Dr Ranj: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[:[00:07:47] So, very grateful for them. Now, there's one other thing. My research department is sometimes a little bit sketchy, Dr. Ranch. So, they've heard from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of Barbara Broccoli [00:08:00] that you're in talks to be the next James Bond.
[:[00:08:07] Ross: Oh darn it! I was not sure if you could say anything about it, but
[:[00:08:32] Everyone wants to be James Bond.
[:[00:08:47] Dr Ranj: who knows? Who knows? Maybe one day I'll try and stick it on the old vision board, as it were, the mental vision board, but for now, I can't say it's up there.
[:[00:09:03] Dr Ranj: Yeah, thanks Barbara, sorry to disappoint you if I have.
[:[00:09:20] Maybe just a couple of pivotal moments.
[:[00:09:48] So I grew up in Kent, a working class background, didn't really grow up with a huge amount. But knew I wanted to do something. So I was the first doctor in my family. [00:10:00] So, I don't really come from a very academic family. I actually come from a farming family. Um, so for me and well, for my parents, especially education was really, really important.
[:[00:10:35] I was a junior doctor for a while and I was doing it full time.
[:[00:11:01] Creative outlet and sidestep into media
[:[00:11:27] Try not to pass up opportunities
[:[00:11:53] happen because of it. Because I'd never dreamed of working in television. I wasn't trained to do it and I'd [00:12:00] never dreamed of, you know, getting a BAFTA or writing books. But I thought if the opportunity comes along, I'm going to do my best to see if I can make it work. And if I do, fantastic. And if I don't, then maybe it's just not meant for me.
[:[00:12:26] Motto in life
[:[00:12:49] One of my, you know, I, you mentioned it earlier. I work as sleep and wellness ambassador for Furniture Village. Furniture Village is a brand that I grew up with. Um, it's very much a family brand. I never thought I would end up working in that space, but I love the fact that they are basically in everyone's home and they are very much a part of people's everyday lives and I get to take my expertise into that space and my experience and knowledge into that space and try and do something helpful with it.
[:[00:13:36] I've done it for several years now. And I feel like we're really, really helping everyday people with everyday things. Albeit when you think, oh, but it's a. It's a furniture retailer. I was like, yes, but it's so much more than that. We, we're not just talking about products and items and furniture and things like that.
[:[00:14:05] Ross: So I guess it's the ideal arena to capture adults and to hopefully be of service to them, to support them in their, their well being and their sleep. It's like me, I work with people in organizations. I consider the, the organizational arena A great place to share skills and approaches and insights for adults that they maybe weren't taught at school.
[:[00:14:30] Dr Ranj: exactly. And sleep is the big thing that I started with the Furniture Village. It was, um, We spend a third of our lives sleeping, it's hugely important. But when we're stressed or when we're under pressure or when we got deadlines, it's the first thing we will scrimp on And I think we for that's because we forgotten how important it is and this was an opportunity for me to bring sleep back to the forefront, to Remind people of its importance and also to work with incredible organizations like the Sleep Charity who do wonderful work around sleep for all ages and people who are struggling with it and offer a free helpline for people for support.
[:[00:15:29] Ross: Yeah, and it strikes me that all of the strands of your career, from your work in the NHS to the sleep ambassador to writing books is all to be of service to other people, to support other people in, in wellness, which is quite a mission. And
[:[00:16:23] I do a lot of charity work with organizations to promote health campaigns. I do, um, a lot of work, for instance. As we've just talked about with sleep, it's all to try and make things better for people. And I think that's very much my, my, goal. My, my, how I get my sense of self worth and satisfaction and reward is, is if I've done something positive for someone.
[:[00:17:04] Dr Ranj: do you know what? That's a very, very good point. I. Interestingly, when I was doing medicine full time, um, the hours are gruelling, the job is quite full on, it's quite intense, and I work in children's A& E and sometimes intensive care, so it's quite a full on environment to work in. When I was doing that full time, it, it was, was intense and at one point I burned out because of it and what I realized actually that I had to prioritize myself as well as other people otherwise I wasn't going to be much good and so by branching out and doing other bits and pieces, by doing a bit of media work, by doing a bit of writing and other bits and bobs that I do, um, I found that I might be working more hours than I was in totality, but because I, I enjoy things so much more and I'm more productive and useful, it doesn't feel like work anymore.
[:[00:18:22] I love, I love it now. Um, and it was all about adjusting my balance. That's how it was. So I get the energy from, and my passion because I love what I do. And that drives me forward. And then hearing from people who have found it useful, that drives me forward. And even though from the outside, it looks like a, it's a lot, um, from the inside, it doesn't feel that way.
[:[00:18:58] Ross: Well, amen to that. We're very grateful you're doing it. And how are you at setting boundaries between all your different threads of, of your, of your working life and your passion to. So just, just being range, just
[:[00:19:14] Recharge batteries - saying yes to everything
[:[00:19:16] Dr Ranj: absolutely. that's something that I think I've learned over time. I used to be a person that would say yes to everything. And I soon learned that actually you can't, you can't, you have to prioritize. if it's not a yes immediately, it might be a, a not yet. And then also being comfortable with saying no, because it's okay to say no, because.
[:[00:19:59] And also [00:20:00] prioritizing things that are good for me. So I think, um, for me it's very much movement is a big thing. So I don't like the word exercise because I find it intimidating. So any kind of movement, be that going for a walk, be that going for a gym class, or going for a dance, that to me is really important.
[:[00:20:47] and help me recharge, as well as, like you said, setting those sort of boundaries and saying, right, well, this is what I feasibly can do. This is what I can do, but not right now. And this is what I can't do. That's the way my mind kind of works.
[:[00:21:09] Dr Ranj: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
[:[00:21:35] Dr Ranj: That is completely understandable for freelancers, actually, because nothing's guaranteed. And I'm very much, I think, a freelancer now, in a weird way. Um, and there is that pressure to say yes to everything, because you never know when the next job might be. It may not be for a while, so you feel that pressure to say yes, because you don't know if you're going to get something else next.
[:[00:22:13] Ross: um, that's a really great lesson for us because I love the distinction between yes and yes but not right now. It makes us realize that the other person might be able to flex their agenda to, to fit it in rather than saying no. No. So yeah, it's, it's, it's tricky being a human being sometimes.
[:[00:22:35] Ross: Now, at Dr. Ranch, there's a question I ask all my guests about a song choice. And this would be a song choice that announces your arrival in a room, whether it's a virtual room, whether you're nipping to the supermarket, whether you're arriving home, or in your NHS job. And it would play, not forever. So it's not, you're not choosing a song forever, but for the next two to three months.
[:[00:22:59] Dr Ranj: Um, well, I'm, I'm a massive musical theatre fan and I'm a massive musical film fan. And one of my all time favourite films, movies and songs from it is, um, This Is Me from The Greatest Showman. It's such a rousing and empowering song. The message behind it is incredible. It's, it's, it's very much a, this is who I am.
[:[00:23:51] in, in spaces or situations where you may not have been like that, or you know, your experiences may have been [00:24:00] horrible and have knocked you down and, traumatized you and battered you, but it's still saying, well, you know, this, this is who I am. And this is what I'm bringing to the table and, and that's fine.
[:[00:24:15] The courage to be ourselves and role modelling
[:[00:24:24] and speaking to you, being a role model for others. Hmm. Hmm.
[:[00:24:55] And I think I used to feel like it was a request. Being a role model is leading by example is but is about showcasing your best qualities. That's what it is. So it's, it's, it's, Permission to be, actually. And then for others to hopefully see that and find inspiration and strength and courage from it.
[:[00:25:45] Think of it as, look, look at what I'm doing. If I can do it, so can you.
[:[00:26:01] Dr Ranj: Yes.
[:[00:26:06] We live in a world of constant comparison
[:[00:26:31] And your fallibility and the fact that none of us are perfect no matter what we might see or hear And we're all just trying to do our best That's all that counts. That's all that's important. Um No one has got it completely right nobody has but the important thing is that you're trying
[:[00:27:01] Dr Ranj: Hmm yeah
[:[00:27:19] And people would say, Oh, me too. Or, you know, those people who are sending emails that. at strange hours and then other people are applying. It becomes this sort of culture in organizations sometimes. But, but let's, let's maybe start with the scale of the problem. Can you tell us anything about that, the scale of the problem around, around sleep?
[:[00:27:42] significant proportion of children and adults will struggle to sleep at some point. Um, and the figures are much higher than you might expect. And, A huge number of us don't recognize the importance of [00:28:00] sleep. We know that it's quite fairly well understood that sleep is a time when we rest and recover.
[:[00:28:30] Sleep is important
[:[00:28:58] It's when our brains form memories. It's how we develop our mental resilience and cope with the stresses and strains of everyday life. Sleep is active. It's never passive. It's like going to the gym for your brain. So you're doing that when you're asleep as well as all the other important things that your body is doing so we have to prioritize it.
[:[00:29:21] Dr Ranj: We have to start thinking about it more the more active your life is The more you're trying to do during the day the more you should be prioritizing your sleep because that's how you prepare That's how you recover and it's how you prepare. So if you've got a high intensity job then it's even more important.
[:[00:29:54] Ross: that framing that we don't treat it with the importance and [00:30:00] the attention it deserves. We maybe just sit at something where we could just collapse into bed at night and set the alarm thinking, oh,
[:[00:30:34] And if there is something that's stressing you out, maybe addressing that. is the way to improve your sleep quality, or it could be as simple as changing the environment and the circumstances in which you sleep. And small tweaks can make a really, really big difference. And that's very much something I have emphasized in my work with Furniture Village.
[:[00:31:08] Ross: Could, could you talk to us about the, uh, I'm a big fan of small
[:[00:31:13] Ross: I think that's the, the key to behavior change. And, could you talk to us about some of these small things? Give us some examples to bring it to life for
[:[00:31:21] Dr Ranj: Yeah, whenever we talk about improving sleep everyone thinks I need to sleep more I need to sleep longer. And that's not necessarily the case. We're talking about improving sleep quality. And I talk a lot about something called sleep hygiene. sleep hygiene is a term we use to describe the circumstances in which you sleep.
[:[00:32:06] So that means, you know, going to bed at roughly the same time, waking up roughly the same time, having a routine of wind down before you go to bed to tell your brain and your body that to signal to them that it's coming up to bedtime. Doing things like having a look at the environment that you're sleeping in.
[:[00:32:45] When was the last time I changed it? And is this mattress helping me sleep? Or is it about time? Because mattresses wear out. They do, they become less supportive and that can sometimes contribute to you waking up more or not getting deep enough sleep which is really important.
[:[00:33:01] Dr Ranj: And it could be as simple things like how much time are we spending on devices before we go to bed?
[:[00:33:34] It ups your stress hormones which are designed to keep you awake. all of those sorts of things, those little things that we can all do are really, really important and actually a lot of people may not think about them quite so much and think, oh, you know, I'll just have a quick scroll through my phone before I go to bed, but that might be the thing that's actually.
[:[00:33:58] Ross: hmm,
[:[00:34:11] Ross: that the other day and I couldn't find, I couldn't find my alarm clock, but I'm going to pursue, I'm going to pursue it because I know deep down that my phone is my constant companion.
[:[00:34:28] Ross: and head on the pillow looking at the screen, it's just such an unhelpful
[:[00:34:50] Who knows? The most common thing people do is they ruminate. They will lie there and think about it and hope that sleep will get you and you will fall asleep. It doesn't happen. The best thing to do in that situation, rather than stressing over trying to get back to sleep at that point, thinking, Oh, it's three o'clock in the morning.
[:[00:35:31] Actually, it does. It breaks that cycle. So if you are stressing about something in bed, and then you start stressing about thinking, I need to get back to sleep and I'm getting frustrated because I can't sleep because I'm stressing. Get up and do something else. Just do something to take your mind off it, and then come back to bed and try again.
[:[00:35:54] Ross: So we're interrupting that rumination
[:[00:36:08] Ross: right. I think that's something, I mean it's something that affects all ages. My dad is 88 and the other day he was saying I woke up in the night and it was something about his home support arrangements and he said it always seems much worse in the middle of the night.
[:[00:36:42] You're much better off thinking about it when you've got a rested, fresh head than it is in the middle of the night when you're going to be tired, anxious, stressing and focusing on the negatives.
[:[00:37:06] Dr Ranj: Yeah.
[:[00:37:12] Dr Ranj: Um.
[:[00:37:13] Dr Ranj: one of the things that I talk a lot about, and I spoke about earlier, is movement, physical activity, exercise, and the benefits that has for sleep. So the thing about, the more active you are during the day physically, whatever movement that might be, you will sleep better in the evenings. And that's because one, your body is tired and wants to rest.
[:[00:38:27] Sometimes people do that because that's the only time they have, but try to do those earlier in the day and do more relaxing activities in the evening. If physical activity is something that you want to do, and I'd certainly be an advocate for something like that.
[:[00:38:56] Dr Ranj: yeah.
[:[00:38:58] Ross: Is that kind of counterproductive,
[:[00:39:00] Dr Ranj: now and again, actually, a nice lie in is really helpful, I think. And it's nice, and it feels like a bit of a treat, and you're doing something nice for yourself, and allowing yourself to have that permission. Now and again, that's absolutely fine. If you find yourself having to lie in every weekend just to cope, then that's your body trying to tell you something.
[:[00:39:43] So if, for instance, let's say you're lying in for two hours on a, on a Sunday, why don't you add 30 minutes a night on four nights of the week? Um, and try or maybe adjust and you should, if you're going to adjust your sleep times, you should try and do it in 30 minute intervals because that tends to be a bit [00:40:00] more realistic, but maybe add 30 minutes a night on if you can to your regular sleep during the week.
[:[00:40:17] Ross: Hmm. I like those, that 30 minute interval concept. Great. Now it feels like the conversation has been rammed full of tips and you've been very generous. Is there any final thing you'd leave for the listeners to, to really help them think about their well being as a whole than their sleep?
[:[00:40:59] And It's very easy to let that stress overwhelm us and take control. Just simply sometimes sitting down and thinking, what can I do for me to help me cope with the world around me, whatever that might be, sitting down and doing a bit of self care. And not thinking of it as selfish. It's self preservation is what it is.
[:[00:41:53] something that makes you feel good. That's never a wasted activity. It's never a wasted [00:42:00] opportunity. It is something beneficial. It's something healthy and it's something that you will thank yourself for. So whatever that might be today, thank you. Take a moment, take 10 or 15 minutes and think, what do I need right now to help me feel good?
[:[00:42:27] Dr Ranj: Yeah.
[:[00:42:41] We really love what you do.
[:[00:42:44] Ross: That's it, pea soupers, my chat with Dr. Ranj in the bag. I'm so grateful for Ranj joining me on the show. My mum would have truly loved this episode. Please do check out Dr. Ranj's work. He is doing so much to support people, especially folks who are marginalized. Now, PSupers, we need your help. We want to reach more people, so
[:[00:43:10] you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, we'd love you to do three things.
[:[00:43:22] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.
[:[00:43:59] [00:44:00] So, they've heard from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of Barbara Broccoli that you're in talks to be the next James Bond.
[:[00:44:16] Ross: Oh darn it! I was not sure if you could say anything about it, but
[:[00:44:41] Everyone wants to be James Bond.
