In this captivating episode, host Dan welcomes Greg Hatem, a multifaceted musician, composer, and producer from Baltimore, Maryland. A Berklee College of Music graduate, Greg discusses his prolific musical career spanning multiple bands and genres from post-punk to avant-folk, alongside running a curiosity shop specializing in natural history items. The conversation explores Greg's experiences growing up queer in Baltimore, the city's vibrant artistic community, and his thoughts on creating art that transcends identity while remaining authentically connected to it.

Key Topics:

• Greg's musical projects across multiple bands and genres
• Growing up queer in Baltimore and Catholic school experiences
• The unique artistic environment of Baltimore's music scene
• The relationship between queer identity and creative expression
• Finding community and authentic connections
• The significance of representation in music
• Greg's curiosity shop and Ouija board museum
• Creative processes and emotional connections in music
• Thoughts on trans rights and inclusivity in the arts
• Creating your own artistic world as a form of empowerment

Episode Timeline:

00:00:13 - Introduction to the show and host Dan Hall

00:00:39 - Introduction to Greg Hatem and his Baltimore background

00:01:44 - Greg's current musical projects and curiosity shop

00:02:22 - Childhood experiences growing up in Baltimore

00:03:17 - Finding supportive people and navigating identity

00:04:47 - Thoughts on inclusive music scenes and accessibility

00:05:15 - Early connections between queerness and music creation

00:07:17 - The importance of representation in queer music

00:08:31 - Experiences in Catholic school and family support

00:09:55 - Discussion of Baltimore's unique artistic environment

00:11:48 - Connections to John Waters and Baltimore's character

00:15:03 - Overview of Greg's various bands and music projects

00:17:06 - Advice to his 15-year-old self about patterns and growth

00:18:47 - Reflections on pursuing music as a career path

00:19:29 - The Ouija board museum exhibit in Greg's shop

00:21:59 - Discussion of Greg's gateway track "Planet"

00:26:18 - Perspectives on trans rights and artistic freedom

00:28:14 - Message to listeners feeling disconnected or isolated

00:29:15 - Where to find Greg and his music online

Resources Mentioned:

• Greg's Audio Network (Greg's website)
• Greg's bands: Natural Velvet, Moth Broth, Curving Tooth, and Lawsuit Choir
• Upcoming album from Natural Velvet
• Moth Broth's remix collaboration with Shoo Shoo
• "Planet" - Greg's recommended gateway track
• Curving Tooth's album "Crank Me Up"
• The Bazaar curiosity shop and Ouija board museum (3534 Chestnut Avenue, Baltimore)
• John Waters' film "Pecker" (discussed in relation to Baltimore)

Guest Information:

Greg Hatem is a multi-instrumentalist, composer, and producer based in Baltimore, Maryland. A graduate of Berklee College of Music, he creates and performs music across multiple genres including post-punk, avant-folk, and experimental rock. Greg plays in four different bands - Natural Velvet (drums), Moth Broth (electric autoharp), Curving Tooth (arrangements), and Lawsuit Choir - while also producing solo material. In addition to his musical endeavors, Greg owns and operates The Bazaar, a curiosity shop in Baltimore's Hampden neighborhood featuring natural history items, antiques, and a museum dedicated to the history of the Ouija board, which was invented in Baltimore in the 1890s.

Connect & Support:

• Visit Greg's website at Greg's Audio Network
• Listen to Greg's music on Spotify and other streaming platforms
• Check out his bands: Natural Velvet, Moth Broth, Curving Tooth, and Lawsuit Choir
• Visit The Bazaar curiosity shop and Ouija board museum at 3534 Chestnut Avenue in Baltimore
• Contact the podcast at inthekeyofq@gmail.com
• Visit inthekeyofq.com for all previous episodes
• Subscribe and leave a five-star review to help others discover the show

Spotify playlist can be found HERE.

The podcast is on Instagram (@inthekeyofq) and Facebook (search: In the Key of Q).

Dan

Hello and welcome to In the Key of Q with me, Dan Hall. By day, I'm a documentary producer and director, but by night I'm a Queer podcast producer who loves music. So with this show, I want to celebrate Queer musicians and their music from all over the world. This week, I'm speaking to a Queer composer and producer. He's a multi-instrumentalist and a graduate of Berklee College of Music.

Dan

He writes, performs and releases under several bands as well as a solo artist. His genres range from post-punk to avant folk, and since the pandemic began, he's released six records under no less than four different record labels. He joins us from his home in what is one of my favourite cities. It is, I think, probably the only city in the world I've ever actually made a pilgrimage to because I'm a mass of John Waters fan, and so it is incredibly exciting for me to welcome Greg Hatham to the show.

Dan

Greg, hello!

Greg Hatem

Hey Dan, thank you so much for having me. I didn't realise you were such a John Waters fan.

Greg Hatem

I'm just a big Queer kind of weirdo person who makes a lot of music here in Baltimore. I, I play in four different bands and I make music by myself as well. And I play shows all the time. I, I just really love the music scene here in Baltimore, and I love being a part of it.

Greg Hatem

I love going to see shows here. It's kind of my life, but when I'm not making music, I also own and operate a curiosity shop. We sell all kinds of natural history stuff like bones and butterflies, antiques and weird things like that too.

Dan

And what was your childhood like? What was a young Greg's world in Baltimore?

Greg Hatem

Oh, it was it was great. I, I spent my early childhood in Baltimore City proper, and then my, my parents moved out to the suburbs sort of area, where my dad's family was from. And I grew up a pretty, normal sort of life. I was, definitely a Queer little kid, but I, and it was sort of like a suburban kind of environment.

Greg Hatem

I went to, like, a Catholic school for a long time and all that kind of stuff. But I don't know, the thing about, like, being a Queer person is just that you can adapt to situations and you can apply yourself in ways that, it's just sort of like you have to, you know.

Dan

And we've heard often from other guests on the show that there have been issues of isolation around the Queerness or rejection or, or just religious disapproval, but it sounds like you managed to potentially circumnavigate all of those issues.

Greg Hatem

Well, you kind of find your people. You find your friends that aren't that aren't, that aren't going to hold you to that kind of weird standard or like some religious thing or whatever you find people that are accepting and those are the people that you still talk to you today. You know, it's like those are the kinds of connections, and you might not have found them so easily if you weren't in such a polarising environment.

Greg Hatem

I think there's a lot of, Queer music that isn't just for Queer people. You don't have to. You don't have to dim your lights so that other people can shine, you know, like like we're all in this together. And people love Queer music, whether they're Queer or not. And, I love straight music. It's cool. Whatever.

Greg Hatem

You know, it's like, just because there's little enclaves that exist within the community doesn't mean that there aren't that they exist in a vacuum. You know, there's so many communities in Baltimore, and I learn things from other, other people all the time, you know, and, just the fact that they have their own thing, their own thing going is no threat or barrier for entry for anyone else.

Greg Hatem

I don't think the same is true of Queer music completely.

Dan

And I think this idea that scenes have to be exclusive is is just nonsense. But that doesn't mean that we can't mark those scenes.

Greg Hatem

That's true. Exactly. Yeah. No, no. And I think it's it's good to know the context and to know someone's point of view and where they're coming from and their life experiences. I think it's great for that to inform music and to be able to recognise that.

Dan

Fantastic. And for you, where did your Queer story really begin?

Greg Hatem

You know, you're not the same as everyone else, but you're not. It's not like, it's still you're still living in harmony with everyone. It's not, I didn't feel ostracised, but I also didn't feel like, I don't know, it's, I probably through music when I was a really young child, once I learned that I could tape things off the radio with concerts and stuff for Game Changer or, like, I think I had a karaoke machine when I was like maybe six and my parents had and there was a double tape deck, so you could dub things and you could, you could essentially make a multitrack recording by using the microphone and

Greg Hatem

one of the tape inputs onto the to dub on the tape, you know what I mean? So you could sing over it and record it. But of course, I wasn't singing karaoke songs. I was like trying to make weird music that I maybe thought I had remembered from a previous life was, I don't know how to explain.

Dan

And when you're creating music, do you ever find emotionally that it takes you somewhere surprising that you weren't expecting?

Greg Hatem

When I'm playing with other people and we're, really jamming on something or like, improvising, that's when it sort of happens that way where, like, you just get a whiff of something that's, larger than the the situation in the room, you know, like, it's like, sometimes it's like a synchronicity kind of thing where, everyone just sort of gets on the same wavelength and we're just stuck in this place, and we didn't expect to get there, you know?

Dan

Why do you think it is important for us to see our Queerness and hear our Queerness? Why can't we just listen to, Springsteen? You know, I love Springsteen, so why don't we only ever listen to Springsteen and just translate his lyrics into our Queer experience? Change the keys to he's. Why should we? Why shouldn't we just do that?

Dan

What's the point in having Queer artists and Queer?

Greg Hatem

I don't oh, yeah, I know totally do that. But the in in of itself, you're you're way of, of squaring that with your, your personality. It's sort of, you're making something Queer out of it. If someone's like, this is who I am and it's different from you, don't you want to, like, figure out what that is?

Greg Hatem

And they kind of relate to it and be like part of that? Yeah. I mean, Springsteen is great. But we do need people like us to, to express themselves because, you know, where people do not.

Dan

Greg Hatem

Yeah, I went to Catholic school for 12 years. But, you know, I eventually, you know, had the had to come to Jesus talk with my parents, like, I don't know if I really believe all this stuff, you know? And I was like, 13 or something, and they took it really well and have been very supportive. And, they still sent me to the Catholic school.

Greg Hatem

I think I was the 13th person in my family to graduate from the Catholic high school I went to. So it's kind of like, that's still happening. Sorry, but we do see you and respect that you they didn't make me get confirmed or anything like that. So, I mean, you know, relationship with Catholicism is very complicated after 12 years of it, but, but, yeah, it's, it's probably not like the movies.

Dan

And why is Baltimore such a magic city? Well, what is it about the place?

Greg Hatem

It's, It's a really great place for. For art. Probably because, it's a lot cheaper. Well, it's it's getting more difficult. But for a while, it had been a lot like, cheaper than, DC and Philadelphia, which are two other larger cities nearby. And, it kind of was still maybe the only place in on the East coast in the US where you can really afford to live as an artist, or at least, it's easier to cobble together that way, you know, a lot of the, like, more corporate minded folks moved to Washington, DC.

Greg Hatem

So a lot of the artists and weirdos stay in Baltimore. It's kind of like we're like the weird cousin, you know? But it really it's a really fertile ground because there's, it's a combination of it being a small town and a big city, you know, there's like a lot of venues, a lot of bands, a lot of musicians, a lot of artists, a lot of galleries.

Greg Hatem

But everyone knows each other, and it's really the community's like, not that big. I mean, I would love it for it to be larger, but, it's like you still really know a lot of people in the scene. They know you. You go to each other's shows. It feels like a small town in that way. But there's just so many opportunities and so many musicians.

Dan

It's fantastic. And and it's amazing because John Waters, who I mentioned earlier, who's my favourite dancer in the whole world, I mean, I've always really admired his passion for his city and how his relationship with Baltimore, it feels very much like mine with London. And then I, I'm a I was born in London, so I'm from here and but I love it.

Dan

It doesn't mean I'm blind to it. It doesn't mean that I don't go out on the street and see the rats or see that the subway station is filthy, right? But you just love it anyway. And I love how he is like that about Baltimore.

Greg Hatem

Yeah, it's weird because it has so many problems. Like a lot of, American urban centres. There's a lot of problems that need to be addressed. But it's also like, well, you're not going to get this anywhere else, so just deal with it. You know, it's like it's like we've there's, like this environment, this culture here that's just so, so inspiring.

Greg Hatem

So, rich and creative.

Dan

Totally. What just does the best work you can with what's there? And like you say, you know, you're surrounded by artists and creatives and and if the public transit system is terrible, then just go to the fantastic local music venues within a 20 minute walk.

Greg Hatem

Yeah. It's like going to, it's like going to a your favourite pub. It's dirty and they don't, you know, it's like not the cleanest and most sanitary and like friendliest place in the world. But it has that thing that you need. It has that like that energy that you are looking for and you just want to be in it all the time because it's like living at the perfect time, or at least, you know, it's like you just want to be, you know, you know, it's not exactly how if you were like, designing it from scratch, how it would be.

Greg Hatem

But there's just this, like, lived artist experience in the city that goes way back. And it's like a city of of inventors, of city of firsts, the city of innovators. The music scene reflects that film scene. It's just really, really rich, rich place now.

Dan

But I think that's one of the reasons why I love Packer so much. The John Waters film, because it felt like it was. It's an I know it's not one of the ones that people know that much, but it's because everyone's obsessed with with paint flamingos and female. Right. Its own female trouble. But I love to pack it because it's sort of, to me, seem to be a hymn to Baltimore.

Greg Hatem

Yeah. Pepper is, was filmed in and set in, the neighbourhood where my shop is. And, it's kind of like, sort of like a working class kind of neighbourhood that has had its, its share of problems, too. But, pretty well, pretty well depicted in Tucker. I'd say.

Dan

Wasn't their storyline about trying to get a liquor license but with pubic hair?

Greg Hatem

Oh, yeah. It says it right here in the liquor code. Pubic hair. It's like it's just plain illegal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, Yeah. Jones has always been a little obsessed with pubes.

Dan

Okay, then. Greg, we're starting to move towards the final third of the show now. And in the introduction, I talked about how you'd released a lot of records under several different record labels. Can you tell us a bit about those and why you've chosen to do it under all those different spaces?

Greg Hatem

Yeah. Well, I'm, kind of a scatterbrain sometimes when it comes to my output, and I am actually in four different bands and they're all very, very different. And, so, yeah, I, I find myself working in a lot of different genres, a lot of different, with a lot of different musicians. I'm in a, post-punk band where I play drums called Natural Velvet.

Greg Hatem

We have a new record coming out, hopefully later this year. And, then I also play electric autoharp in a band called Moth Broth. Very Queer band. Moth Braskem, if you want to check it out. We have a new record we're working on, and actually we just, we just, put out a single that's getting it remixed by the legendary Queer avant rock band Shoo Shoo.

Greg Hatem

So, we have a shoo shoo remix coming out for that song, hopefully very soon. That band's called Moth Broth. Then I also play in a band called Curving Tooth. I, do a lot of arrangements for my friend Liz, who I mentioned earlier, who, has been writing songs since the early 80s, and it's kind of like a, a re-examination and a retooling of her songbook from across the years.

Greg Hatem

That's called curving tooth, curving tooth.com. We just put out a new record earlier this year called Crank Me Up. Yeah. And then I also played another folk band called the Lawsuit Choir. I don't have a lot of I have a lot of, a lot of practice going on.

Dan

But, you know, besides that, you're not up to much.

Greg Hatem

You know, you know, it's what I do whenever I have any free time.

Dan

So have you. Wonderful. And all of this material, I'm guessing we can find on the usual streaming platforms.

Greg Hatem

Yeah, yeah. Just go on to your favourite spot to listen to music, Spotify, Bandcamp, all that kind of stuff for. We're there if you want to check it out.

Dan

Fantastic. What a talented chap you are.

Greg Hatem

Oh, thank you so much, Dan.

Dan

What do you think you would say to your 15 year old self about the world of of a Queer mind and, and your relationship now as an adult with that 15 year old?

Greg Hatem

Yeah. I mean, I think, really something that I hope, I wish I had appreciated in a lot earlier or like, looking out for patterns, noticing patterns in, in your own behaviour and other people's behaviour in the world. Everything has, emotion to it. Unless you kind of like, recognise that and sort of don't try to fight it.

Greg Hatem

You know, when you, when you realise that there's a cardinal impulse that will start something, there's like a fixed impulse that will carry it on, there's like a mutable impulse that will change it, and it'll just repeat over and over and over again. Once you realise that everything starts, blossoms and then changes like that's the key to everything, and I didn't.

Greg Hatem

It took me a really long time to learn that. But it's something that I've applied to my music a lot. It's something that I think about with my personal relationships.

Dan

And do you think that 15 year old Greg would recognise the you now? Would he see that as an extension?

Greg Hatem

That totally, totally. I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do when I was 15, I just didn't. The path was totally different, but I ended up. I ended up in the exact same spot where I always wanted to be. But yeah, you never. I mean, you know, life has curveballs and whatnot, but, yeah, I think my 15 year old self would be pretty unsurprised.

Greg Hatem

I mean, hopefully, hopefully proud. But, you know, yeah, I think it's, Yeah, I think I've always kind of known what I wanted to do, and it's just been how to get there.

Dan

But I don't imagine choosing a career as a musician is an easy thing to do.

Greg Hatem

Yeah, I didn't I didn't ever really thought about it as a career, which is probably pretty foolhardy on my part. And at some point I was like, I don't know how I'm going to make money. I'm just waiting tables and just doing whatever and making a lot of music and feeling artistic. But I'm just, you know, how am I going to turn this into a life thing?

Greg Hatem

And that's when I opened the shop. I was like, you mean I can just, like, sell things to people and they'll give me money the same day? You know, it's like pretty wild. Yeah. We actually just just opened a, shameless plug here. Just opened a small little museum exhibit up above the shop. The the history of the Ouija board is it was invented here in Baltimore.

Greg Hatem

Dan

And is that likely to be a permanent exhibit? So say, for example, if someone hears this podcast. Yeah, I hope time.

Greg Hatem

Yeah, totally, I hope so. Yeah. We're on, on Chestnut Avenue in Hamden, in Baltimore. If you're if any of your listeners find themselves with some, free time, and want to learn about the Ouija board, absolutely.

Dan

Push a pusher. What's the full name of the store? And they.

Greg Hatem

Dan

That's absolutely fantastic. And, Greg, one of the main reasons I want to do this podcast is to raise the profile and voices of Queer music and Queer musicians. For those who do not know your music, I like to end the episodes with a gateway song. And the gateway song is really supposed to be something where it's the one track that you fail at because it's the perfect, perfect invitation into your catalogue.

Dan

Now for you, what would that song be and why?

Greg Hatem

I'm going to go with planet. It's a song that I, that I wrote a little while ago for originally it was written for a, charity compilation and to benefit, Trans Youth. The theme of the compilation was one-minute songs by 40 Baltimore artists who contributed to it.

Greg Hatem

So there's like a 40 minute record. But yeah, every song was one minute and there were 40 different artists. So I've written one, a one minute song for, for that project that I, decided, I think I could expand it into a longer track. And that's how I, came to to record the version that's on the record.

Greg Hatem

But, it's kind of one of the songs that I, I love. I put it in the category called, BLT. It's, which stands for Brave Little Toaster. Hear me out, hear me out. It's because every instrument is kind of like an archetype and has like, a role. It's very much like one of those where it's like you're casting a play or casting a, movie or something like that, where every different instrument has its own character, has its own point of view, and they're all kind of working in harmony together, kind of like in the silly movie Brave Little Toaster, when it has, like, the vacuum cleaner and the radio

Greg Hatem

and the lamp and the toaster, they're all kind of like they they bring their own, their own, they bring their own thing to eat to. But it's like they're all working together. It's just kind of a little microcosm, sort of of of the world maybe, or like of, like the human experience all contained within these characters.

Dan

What are your feelings around the. The controversy that there is around, trans debate? Just personally, for me, I don't as a as someone who's a cis man, I don't really think it's my business to have an opinion on, whether someone can or cannot be trans. It's their space. And it's their life. I don't think I have a right to tell them what to do with their bodies, and whether it's it's right or not.

Dan

I don't quite understand why this is such a hugely controversial issue. People like, oh, but what about sport for like, it's a fuck about sport and it's people's lives.

Greg Hatem

Yeah. And like and I mean I don't know, let them do their thing and then then be the judge like judge them on their art, judge them on their whatever. If you have to judge someone, like, let them at least tell their story how they want to tell it. You know, like, like so many people who cast judgement on trans folks are the same people that are marginalising them and making them feel unwelcome.

Greg Hatem

So, just let them be themselves and, let them make art. And then once you experience them as their true selves and their artwork, you'll understand there's no other option. This is this is who they are. And they're contributing so much to the fabric of our city and our country.

Dan

Absolutely. And I get incredibly annoyed the older I get that I still have to put on the radio or put on the TV and hear straight people having conversations about my rights, and it's like, why don't you fuck off out of my hair.

Greg Hatem

Look, or.

Dan

I'm not going to have my bed.

Greg Hatem

Yeah, get a Harvey Mason, make some art yourself. You know, I.

Dan

Think yours your versions is a lot nicer than mine. Mine is like, go fuck yourself. And you're, like, going to go and making a lot.

Greg Hatem

Just you think about all the wasted energy. It's like, yeah, you're only here for so long. You want to spend all your energy just hating on these people for no reason. Like touch grass, make some art, go outside. Like, you know, like like, engage in the world in a way that isn't so hateful. It's not that hard.

Dan

So what would your message be, then, for people listening to this? Anybody be like trans, be that Queer who are just like, fuck, I don't belong in this world. This world just doesn't fit me. It's it's everything is just terrible. I don't have any tribe. I can't find them. One more. You know, what would you say to them?

Greg Hatem

You just have to paint a different world. You have to. I mean, the world doesn't belong to one person. If someone has an opinion that you disagree with, that's not. It's their opinion. That's their life. You have your own life. You have your own world. You can make it whatever you want. You just have to have the like, internal fortitude, which is hard to like.

Greg Hatem

Build that up. You know, if you're if people are trying to tear you down all the time or if you grew up in a, in a situation that's hostile to your, to your identity, you know, but, you kind of have to find it within yourself somewhere to like, really, really understand that you are in charge of, of, your imagination.

Greg Hatem

And that's the way out of it.

Dan

And I think that's a fantastic way to wrap up this episode. Greg Haytham, thank you so much for coming and guesting on in the key of Q. It's been fantastic talking to you.

Greg Hatem

Thanks, Dan. It's been a real pleasure.

Dan

Not at all. And before we disappear, can you tell us where we can find you online?

Greg Hatem

Sure, yeah. You can go to Greg's Audio, Greg's audio network. All. Okay.

Dan

Fantastic. And your music is. We can find it on Spotify and all.

Greg Hatem

Them on Spotify. Yep. All this places.

Dan

Wonderful, wonderful stuff. And do you give my love to Baltimore?

Greg Hatem

When I show you have to come visit again soon, then.

Dan

Oh, I will do, I will do. I'll take you up on that. Yeah. Thank you very much, everyone, for listening to In the Key of Q. Thank you for giving up your time. And if you have enjoyed it, please do give us a five star review. As ever, huge thanks to Paul Leonidou, who composed our opening and closing music, and thanks to Moray Lang for his continued support in making this show.

Dan

Do you go back and listen to old episodes, listen to some of the good ones again, and also make sure you listen to our next episode. I will see you next Tuesday. Take care.