He's a close protection professional who specializes in working with public figures and operating in challenging and non-permissive environments. On today’s show, Elijah Shaw sits down with JT Brown to talk about mindset and training. What type of mentality is required to work with a client that is operating in unstable and insecure environments? What is the industry perception versus the actual reality?

Tune into this week's show to get JT's opinion on those questions, and we also discuss...

• How to be strategic ahead of being reactive?
• As a protector, how do you get to the top of the 'food chain?'
• What are the 'laws of the jungle' that allow us to perform in any environment?
• What are some best practices for 'staying off the menu' and not becoming prey?

More about JT:

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More about the Circuit:

The Circuit Magazine is written and produced by volunteers, most of who are operationally active, working full time in the security industry. The magazine is a product of their combined passion and desire to give something back to the industry. By subscribing to the magazine you are helping to keep it going into the future. Find out more >

If you liked this podcast, we have an accompanying weekly newsletter called 'On the Circuit' where we take a deeper dive into the wider industry. Opt in here >

The Circuit team is:

• Elijah Shaw
• Jon Moss
• Shaun West
• Phelim Rowe

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We already cannot be time with age, so if that's the case, why would

you do yourself even more disjustice by not taking care of your body?

Right.

1, 2, 3, and,

all right, so short circuit, a little spinoff of the Circuit

podcast, at which me, Elijah Shock.

Cause I'm never around.

I'm gonna do my own little mini podcast and I decided that I

could, since I'm doing a podcast, I could bring my friends up and so,

so welcome to the Short Circuit podcast.

My guest today is JT Brown.

He's a close protection professional who specializes in working with public

figures operating in challenging and non permissive environments.

Today I wanna talk about mindset and training, and the training that's required

to work with a clientele that's operating in these areas, as well as the industry's

perception versus the actual reality.

But first up, welcome to the show, j.

Thanks for having me.

It's,

it's good to be here.

Yeah, bro.

Uh, we've been trying to make this happen for a while now, trying to

get these schedules in alignment.

Yeah, we've been, uh, kind of playing phone tag on this one for a while,

And then of course, the thing about this is, you know, so

nobody's under any type of illusions, man.

You talk all the time and we, you know, we talk offline and we talk about things

that, uh, you know, are of interests, of concern and, and, and how to better

ourselves and succeed in the industry.

And so that's one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the show.

Was because like those, those things that come up in our conversations, those

nuggets, like those are things that I think other people should hear, because

they're gonna find value in those things.

And so, that's why I wanted to have you on the show.

So bro, thanks for, for taking the time to come on over here.

Rap with me a little bit and, and, you know, we could get it figured out.

Okay.

I

definitely appreciate you grabbing me.

Nah, no

worries.

So anyway, this is short circuit.

Uh, I wanna start off with something that's like a tradition on this end here.

Uh, so before we dive into the heart of the conversation, we've got these

three rapid fire questions that we do.

And so they don't require a lot of thought.

In fact, I just want you to kind of say the, you know, kind of the

first thing that comes to mind.

Um, you know, one day I'm gonna take all these questions, the answers that

everybody's given, the Mark James, the Kevin Geese, and, and, um, And

then we're gonna like, maybe break down that to a whole separate topic.

Yeah.

But the, the first one is, what's your favorite thing about the industry

to experience life outside of the

box?

Okay.

Yeah.

Tell me what you mean.

Come on.

When I, when I say that is coming from, uh, inner city in Chicago,

you, you get built into a box.

Certain things you won't really believe that's even magically real.

Gotcha.

Um, so the, the industry just lets you kind of see the world.

It's allows you to do that.

Okay.

I get that.

That's, that's a, that's, that's a plus for the career path, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So now I gotta flip it a little bit.

Okay.

And I'm gonna say, what's the, you know, the worst thing about the

industry to you, You know, what, what, you know, I don't wanna say like,

what do you hate about the industry?

But like, you know what definitely needs improvement.

Well, how

I look at it as, as an industry base, the only thing that I hate that

is, it's not a collective whole as

how it should be.

Okay, So you mean almost like from a unity perspective, Is that where we're at?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

I see that when you see, when

you hear the word protector, you don't think individual, you,

you think group, you know, you can, you never will go to war with

just one soldier, so I would never.

I would never assume that multiple soldiers would, you know, be if, if

the Marines in the army have to go together, they're gonna fight together.

Not gonna, they're not gonna clash.

I get where you going with that?

That that's deep.

We gonna have to unpack that one day.

Um, okay, so here's the next one and it's, it's a little bit of a trick question.

Name one person, pass a present alive a.

That you would like to, or have liked to have provided protective services for?

So you can, you can just run the ga Anybody that you was like,

Man, I wish I, I had provided, you know, coverage for this person.

Firework, honestly, I would probably say Michael

Jackson.

Okay.

There you go.

See?

Yeah.

I'll probably say Michael Jackson.

All right.

Now that's interesting.

I, I'm not gonna get too wide because like I say, one day I wanna, take.

All the guys that have answered, or, and the ladies that have answered

and almost unpacked those, cause we've got 'em from across the board.

I mean, we've got Michael Jackson, which is the first, like Muhammad Ali.

I mean we, we had, Bishop Desmond Tutu.

I, I think we got a couple presidents in there.

You know what I mean?

You know, it . In fact, somebody said Jesus Christ.

And I was like, Yo, that might change history, but you know, whatever.

Like, it's the first thing that came to mind.

So, so one day we gotta like, you know, jump into all of those.

I'm gonna have to make a, a special topic about that, but now, you know, I

want to get into kind of the heart of.

Of why I wanted to talk to you today.

And as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, one of the things

that I know that you do is that you specialize in working with clients who

operate a non permissive environments.

And, and some people hear that and they immediately think of

places like Iraq or Afghanistan.

But, but I wanted to share a quick definition for our listers.

So the US Agency for International Develop.

Defines a non permissive environment as a nation or region within a nation

in which uncertainty, instability, inaccessibility or insecurity constrain

the ability to operate safely.

And you know, I gotta say this places around the United States like that, right?

Yes, sir.

Absolutely.

So, so I think, you know, again, everybody's given the same page because

they always thinking, you know, over in the sandbox and, and all of that.

But, you know, right here at home, there are challenging environments

and I'm of the mindset, which is what I want to unpack today, is that, all

protection isn't, Equal necessarily.

It's the same foundation, but you have to get specialized skills to

operate in certain environments.

You know, and I think this is one that people think, Oh, you know, you

know, we're in the United States, uh, you know, I'm a bodyguard.

I can move anywhere over there freely and, and un uh, you know, without restric.

And I don't necessarily know that that's true.

So I was like, Can I get JT on here?

We gonna talk about it a little bit.

So, So my first question to you, is this something that, again, me and you

talk about offline a lot, what's the mentality required to navigate in, in some

of those environments that might be, you know, you know, more challenging than a.

Um, the mindset that you have to go to when you're dealing

with these type of clients and going them type of environments

is a, a, a real lion type mindset.

And when I say a lion type mindset is because, you know, when you hear the

king of the jungle, you think of a lion.

And that's not always, He's not the smartest.

He's definitely not the fastest.

He's not the strongest.

But the reason why he is king is because how?

He moves in the jungle and how his aro, his, his, his power Okay.

Can expand out.

Okay.

You know, one, one male lion can protect the pride Mm.

How's long?

Okay.

So if you see multiple alpha lions mm-hmm.

I meant alpha lion mindset.

Cause you have to be an alpha lion to, to really be able to strive and

survive in this type of environment because people will read you and, fast,

fast.

Tell, Tell me what you mean about the, the read you part.

Well, you know, us as men.

All of us are lion and predators.

And everybody's their own predator.

Okay.

That's all right.

We, we talking about a lot of metaphors in the jungle, but I, I

get what you're saying is that the mentality is that you need to figure

how you can be top of the food chain.

Because, if you are not the top of the food chain, there's something

that might be bigger, meaner, stronger that's going to test you.

Absolutely.

So even what that being said is, that still is understanding yourself.

Mm-hmm.

And, and knowing what environments to put yourself in.

And I feel like that's one of the biggest keys that I'm losing in our field is

that I see a lot of individuals mm-hmm.

thinking that, uh, it's more, you know, Instagram cool to

be around them, type of guys.

And really putting their self in harm's way because they're not built

for that type of predator mindset.

No, I, I, I, I definitely wanted to, to break

that down a little bit later.

So you're, you're touching on something that I wanted to talk about here.

Um, but before I get to that, because I, I've known you for a while now.

You know, I've seen how you move and it's, it's, And the other thing is, I think too

is that because it's calculated when you make a move, you stop and reassess it.

and it might be okay, now thinking back, I should have did this, this, and this, but

you're self aware enough to realize that.

And I think, I know that there's many in our industry.

that don't apply the strategy to the craft.

they're re they're reactive.

Yeah.

Something happens.

Okay, I can deal with that.

I, I got my gun, or I got this badge, or, or I did this in the past.

They're reactive to something.

Yeah.

However, there are people that think about, what the mission is.

What do I need to accomplish the mission?

And in this case here, if we're talking about operating in these, areas where

the environment itself can present a challenge to a high net worth individual

or to somebody who will have a dollar to their name, but because of where they're

at, at a certain place, at a certain time, So, So my question is to you right now.

How much of that mindset, you know, you mentioned being from Chicago and

from inner city, How much of that mindset is shaped by your upbringing?

I would say a hundred percent.

I see a lot of guys on the board say, Oh man, it's, no protectors born.

And I just always laugh at that.

Because, you have to be careful what you put out because certain people

think as a predator, and it's not a bad thing to be a predator because you have

to understand what land you land in.

So when I entered the protection field I would see that quote and what that

means to me is your upbringing was a very soft type of upbringing because

that means you never had to protect anything growing up in my eyes mm-hmm.

so.

Growing up, I have sisters, I have a mother, you know, I have a little brother.

Mm-hmm.

, um, and just myself, , it was Warrior School Warrior School.

Okay.

Uhhuh Warrior School.

Yeah.

AB absolutely.

I didn't grow up in the area of, of all the guns and everything like that,

you actually had to use your fist.

I appreciate that type of error because I feel like that's what

helps me shape myself in the career.

You know, I was never six, six, I would never be six, six and,

uh, I've never had a issue with me doing that my job, you know.

Okay.

Never had height, a size problem that you would hear nowadays with a lot of guys.

Mm-hmm.

. And I think that's just because of my upbringing.

Mm-hmm.

is that I was always brought to

have that mindset.

So let me ask you a question, staying on that topic.

So do you think, because some might feel their at a disadvantage, Because

of their height or their physicality that then they over rely on other things

and, you know, maybe in this case like the firearms and the weapons or, or even

maybe just even their mouth, you know?

Absolutely.

You know, you know, one of the things I was talking about, I

think it's what to Kevin Gee.

And we were talking about how people like to skip steps and cut corners.

As we train both mentally and physically, you can't skip steps.

So yes, you can back your way into a job, you know, right place at the right time.

And, you end up on an assignment, but the mindset still has to be there.

the physicality, the training, the conditioning, the endurance

has to be there because if not, when that moment of truth comes.

You'll get found lacking.

Absolutely.

And uh, that's the old shit

moment, , Right, Right.

When that old shit moment happens, I, I, How do you, how do you stand up to it?

Uh, you know, that moment of truth happens, you know that that's when

all the cards are on the tape.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Okay, so let's, I guess let's, let's stay on that, that topic,

because some people might.

When they hear the word predator, that has a negative connotation.

But, But I think how you're using it and how I understand it is predator

is that which is looking for a supremacy in whatever that area that's

in, Cause it has to prevail, right?

It's predators and as prey.

Mm-hmm.

. And then that's the cycle of life.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Okay, so let's talk about that environment.

So the world is, is divided into factions.

You know, Democrat, republican, you know, Muslim, Christian, whatever it is, it is.

Nature divides into factions.

And then there's subsections within those factions, And many a times.

Those subsections are at odd with each other and sometimes even violently.

So, yeah.

So, so here's my question.

If you've got a client that's doing business in those areas, how do you

as the protector navigate the terrain so that you don't cause a fence?

You know what I mean?

how do you keep the piece.

So that you can meet the client's objectives, you gotta understand the lay

of the land in so many different area.

And, and see that's what goes back to just really understanding,

The mindset of a predator, but understanding how other predators think.

I've done plenty of, the video shoot where we're in a total different

neighborhood, the total different state, and you just have to understand

the land of the laws of the jungle.

And once you understand, And, each area has their own different land of loss.

That's how you can operate inside their jungle.

Mm.

And that's how you can make

things peaceful.

Got it.

So you, so you are saying

that within, the big picture, when you zoom in, we got the federal

government and you go down and you got the state government and when

you go down from that, you got the, the local government, you know.

So you're saying that you have to keep drilling down because if you are

operating at two high level, Right?

So I'm understanding That's right.

So that, so, so, so we have as protective have to understand how those

things have, we have to understand the politics of those places.

Right?

Yeah.

Now the, it's a, it's a catch 22 to understanding the politics

because, uh, it's a lot of things that's going on nowadays where people

are saying, the check in thing.

Me, myself, I don't believe in that.

It's a way you operate.

it's a way to operate for you?

Don't get abused when you are in movement.

If you quote unquote check in and everything like

that, you lose your respect.

Okay?

You're in.

That type of world.

And in that type of environment, all you have is your respect.

the people that tell you, Oh, we have these guns, and or, with

fighters that fit all, that will not matter in someone else's jungle,

you will be outgunned all the time.

You will be outmanned all the time.

Mm.

So the only thing that you will have is understanding just that aroma, you

know, under that six sense.

Yeah.

Like it's, it is understanding that, and understanding like, okay,

so when you come into these people, you, you're meeting them and you not

necessarily demanding your respect, but you have to walk with that

dominant walk of, of a, you know, you are an alpha cause other alpha's

gonna feed into that energy mm-hmm.

and gonna make them respect it.

A lot of times when most men clash you know, sometimes it's the ego

thing, but it's most of the time.

One guy is just feeling like he's an over alpha and the other one is just trying

to show like, Oh man, I am an alpha.

Okay.

Once you are in a point where yourself will understanding that you are alpha male

and you're conducting yourself and you're moving yourself as a alpha male, mm-hmm.

, you won't have to, you won't have to demand that because your

energy is going to spread out.

Okay.

Well, I I think that ties in to where I was going next,

which is, if our objective is to, to safely move the client from point

A to point B with the least amount of intrusion as possible mm-hmm.

, right?

Like that, that's the job well done.

Yeah.

But the more challenging and higher risk the assignment is,

and that could be caused body environment, the more difficult that.

And we, you know, we mentioned that, that moment of truth.

So what are some best practices because we talk about being predator

so that you don't become the prey when you're in some of these environments.

Like, how do we stay off the menu Yeah.

To keep our clients off the menu, Particularly when you're in a

place where these situations could.

Well,

one, your appearance is everything.

that's your appearance and from my perspective, your posture.

I know that's what I look at when I see any men.

I look at him, I judge him by his body.

Age does not matter to me.

Mm-hmm.

, um, I know 61 year old men.

And phenomenal fighting shape.

no phenomenal fighting shape, you know, so that, that tells me how

do you, how you treat yourself.

Mm-hmm.

, how you treating your body?

That's, that's just one.

And then your posture, you know, if you're walking and just head down and

everything like that, you kind of, let me know what type of man you are.

Mm-hmm.

. I mean, you, you can fake the funk Sure.

If you, if you learn the body language mm-hmm.

, you can really fake the funk.

So, so

what, what I'm getting from that is what you do is a lot

of scanning, Sizing people up.

But I mean it in the sense of you're doing it in analytical way and

whether that's in a textbook way or that's in an innate six sense.

Mm-hmm.

, you know, you're looking for those behavioral cues.

Maybe that's a.

the title of this podcast when we, we bring it back to, you know,

the animal kingdom or something.

But that's what happens, when you show fear mm-hmm.

to something that has a pre drive, it switches.

Right?

So as you're sizing somebody up and whether you're doing that, in order to

best read that room, They're doing that in some way, shape, or form as well.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And as long as you understand that, then you can know who is gonna do what

and who is most likely to do it first.

So if you take that mindset and take it like you see a lot of guys jumping

on stage and everything like that, if you take that same mindset and

take it to a fan, And looking, Oh, oh man, he's, he's just keep rocking up.

You know?

Like, just pay attention to their body language.

Pay attention to, Oh, this guy, he's sitting in the back.

He's really not.

He's probably not gonna do anything.

You know, like you have to just, if you start paying attention to

people's body language, you start, um, analyzing the room, scanning people

just not being fixated on one thing.

Cause a lot of people just think when you hear threat, it's a gunshot or that,

that one type of threat, which that's not true.

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

I just think, uh, if they open up their mind with that and let it transition.

They'll be in better shape.

But it's not as easy to, to scan and read someone if you're not confident

in yourself and you're not showing that because while you're looking at them,

you're showing your own weaknesses or you

strengths.

So there's a seriousness to the profession that I feel is, is sometimes.

Particularly in kind of today's climate.

You know, we talk about the social media thing where perception equals reality.

Uh, okay.

Perception equals reality to reality slaps you in the face, you know what I mean?

And

That moment of truth happens.

Yeah.

And, and.

There's an exposure.

The problem is, is that you can't have this happen at the client's expense.

Because all of those things that you, you get a check for every day.

When nothing goes wrong, you can't say, Well, I had a off

day, or I had a bad day, right?

But one of the things you and I talk about offline quite a bit is making sure.

We figure how to, stay sharp how to keep our edge, Because that thing

that you're talking about, that you grew up with, that 6 cents you're

referred to that can get dulled.

You can, you can become complacent,

that opportunity gets presented, you know, and you flying around the world

on jets or whatever that is, right?

Or just your economic situation has changed and, and, and now all of

a sudden things are much better.

What do you do to kind of continue to keep that edge?

Is my question?

How you stay sharp.

So I train like it's real.

Going against and actually competing in different arts.

Okay.

And it's, I come from a marginalized background, but at the end of

the day, that is a business.

So what I did was I said, Okay, I need to see, can I compete?

If somebody's, if you're training in Brazilian jujitsu every day, that means

you should be pretty good at grappling.

Mm.

I need to know, can I compete with you?

Because in the, the real world, they're not doing that.

So if I can train and compete with somebody that's doing this

every day on a high level, mm.

I know that I won't be taken out in

the, in the, that you can, you can prevail over that.

I got it.

Okay.

Absolutely.

So

I take that in boxing, mo tie wrestling, every aspect because I have a

mindset of just always being hard to kill.

Sure.

Basically you can do all the caught as you want until you get punch in the nose.

That's when it's gonna tell you how you're gonna react.

Absolutely.

You know, also these guys, every guy that doing the nice.

It looks great.

I, I do agree.

It looks great, but what happens when you get cut?

Right?

Can you see yourself bleed and still go on with the attack?

Mm.

That stuff gets different, you know, So I see a lot of guys in the industry

they kind of downplay the hard skills.

And, um, I don't necessarily like the delivers of it because

I do agree soft skills is truly what matters in the industry.

Mm-hmm.

truly

does.

In terms of keep, in terms of keeping your paycheck, keeping your work out.

Absolutely.

Right.

Right.

But it's why the Secret Service has fitness tests requirements.

Firearm requirements re requires they have to stay in a certain

type of shape to stay in the field.

Mm-hmm.

, there's a reason for that.

And it's just now, just as your insurance, if you're not staying on

tip top shape when that moment happens.

Mm-hmm.

, you could have been the best gun slinger alive, but you have not

been training over a year and you just getting slower and slower.

Your step is getting slower and slower.

We already cannot be time with age, right?

So if that's the case, why would you do yourself even more disjustice

by not taking care of your body?

I agree, bro.

JT Brown.

Owner of Dog Pound protection.

DP Protection.

Thank you bro.

Appreciate you having taking the time to talk to me.

We gotta get you back on the show later man.

Thanks for having me.

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