94 - How Selling Without Calls Revolutionized This Consultant’s Approach

Host Vit Muller sits down with James Kemp, the offers and growth strategist who walked away from the corporate grind, failed forward, and flipped the consulting model on its head. James shares how he built multiple $1–3M/year consulting businesses by rejecting traditional high-ticket, call-heavy sales—favoring clear positioning, simple delivery, and selling “on the back of a doc.” He breaks down why everything up to $10M comes down to the offer, how to compress time with AI, and why identity—and the courage to pivot—often matters more than tactics.

James also unveils Virtual JK, his AI replicant trained on his frameworks to help consultants and agencies craft high-converting offers, scale to 3k/week and then 3k/day, and eliminate friction in sales and fulfillment. Expect blunt truths, unconventional playbooks, and highly practical advice you can implement today.

About James Kemp

James Kemp is a renowned offer strategist and growth consultant who has generated $22M+ from his own offers and advised behind the scenes on some of the largest offers online. He pioneered selling via simple Google Docs, popularized weekly payment models, and today runs an ultra-lean business from Bali and New Zealand. James helps agency owners, consultants, and creators “get paid to exist” by packaging their skills into scalable offers—and now, through his AI replicant, Virtual JK, which compresses time and increases leverage for clients worldwide. Previously: led product/marketing to $121M for a daily deals company, launched and exited multiple ventures, and collaborated with leaders like Sam Ovens and Taki Moore.

Highlights 🔥

Key points we talked about in this pilot episode!

• 👉 [00:02:00] James Kemp's Journey - James shares his story from door-to-door sales in the UK to scaling a daily deals business to $121M, and eventually simplifying his business model to work just two days a week.
• 👉 [00:05:00] The Art of the Pivot - Discussion on the importance of pivoting in business, optimizing what works, and aligning it with personal life goals.
• 👉 [00:06:00] Selling on the Back of a Google Doc - James explains how he transitioned to selling offers via Google Docs instead of traditional sales calls, focusing on clear offers and weekly payments.
• 👉 [00:08:00] Identity and Business Constraints - Exploration of how business identities can create self-imposed bottlenecks and the importance of breaking free from these constraints.
• 👉 [00:10:00] Coaching vs. Consulting - James and Vit discuss the differences between coaching and consulting, and how to effectively package and monetize each.
• 👉 [00:13:00] Virtual JK and AI in Business - Introduction to Virtual JK, James' AI replicant, and how it helps scale offers and streamline business processes.
• 👉 [00:40:00] Building a Business That Supports Your Life - James emphasizes the importance of building a business that aligns with and supports the life you want to live, rather than escaping into work.

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More info about this episode:

• Type: Audio (Explicit )
• Link: https://podcast.highlevelexperience.com/episode/how-selling-without-calls-revolutionized-this-consultants-approach
• Authors: Vit Muller
• Copyright 2024 vitmuller.com | highlevelexperience.com

it's interesting compared the offers, everybody's like doing

like slick funnels and all that.

And then there's James who is there.

Fuck all that you can just sell on the back of a dock,

do you want to, say a little bit more

Yeah.

fuck.

All that is the consistent theme of, every kind of s-curve I've been through.

What is coaching anyway?

I'll give you two definitions that are useful for people,

coaching is helping people find the answers within themselves that

they actually already possess.

,consulting

is just telling them what to do,

And now you are rolling out this new product where you're

gonna leverage the heck out of ai and you call it, virtual jk.

He is me, but he works a lot harder than I do.

he's a replicant of me.

what goes into engineering

good offer

promise, time and price and, the outcome is a binary offer.

why people have those objections when the solution is.

In front of them

predominantly because people think in identities,

like the internet kind of fucked us where we see people who are far

the reality is that most people don't make it to the future

because they don't start today

is your day busy?

You're the only thing in my calendar today.

Hello everybody.

Welcome to another episode on the High Level Experience Podcast.

Our guest today is somebody who walked away from the corporate world, failed

at building a consulting business, and then flipped the entire model

on its head, going on to build not one but $2 million dollar consulting

businesses by rejecting everything

most people are thought about, sales, marketing, and growth.

He's the guy who says, most consultants are stuck running on “hope marketing”

- hoping the phone rings, hoping referrals come in while he's built

systems that predictably attract, qualify, and close clients at scale

with as few as 65 clients and just a couple of days of work per week.

And what's really interesting is his entire philosophy challenges the

traditional grind, no cold calling, no chasing, no guesswork, just

positioning, leverage, and what he calls.

Getting “paid to exist” in your market.

Please welcome to the show, James Kemp.

Thank you for having me.

Great to have you on the show.

James, I've been following you for a while.

I've been a big fan of, of Taki Moore and what you've been doing.

That's how I've, found you, while back.

'cause I was part of Taki thing and you're doing work with him, so, mate,

I, yeah, I've been, I've been impressed with, what you've been putting out

there and, things stood out because like in this space, digital marketing,

like us agency owners, at least for me, it's been like that anyway.

my feed on Facebook and that's kinda like dimensional where

I'm at, where I'm hanging out.

It's just full of other marketers.

And it's interesting compared the offers, everybody's like doing

like slick funnels and all that.

And then there's James who is there.

Fuck all that you can just sell on the back of a dock, So it's

interesting and obviously that's been working just from what I've seen.

but for the guys don't know who don't know you, do you want to, say a little bit

more about who you are and just so they can do a bit of an understanding before

we dive into all the good questions.

Yeah.

fuck.

All that is the consistent theme of, every kind of s-curve I've been through.

So, yeah, the story started, the more interesting part of the story started,

16 years ago in the uk, knocking on doors trying to run my first business.

I ran a little finance company and I was selling door to door

and, Knocking on doors in the cold English winter isn't very much fun.

so self-taught myself WordPress and then, Google ads at the time

and started generating the leads that I used to door knock for on

websites and then selling them.

So my first business was reselling, finance leads in the uk.

And then, a little financial wobble happened in the world.

And, all my customers went outta business overnight and

got into the daily deals market.

ran up to $121 million in sales where I ran product and marketing.

got out of that, started consulting.

Went, was like, I have to go to people's offices and sit there kind of like a job

and tell them like clever things that they kind of don't do and went fuck this.

and met a young kid called Sam Ovens at the time and he said, Hey, you

can do all that on the internet.

I was like, Hey, I know how to take things in person and sell them on the internet.

package my first program, e-commerce engine, working with e-commerce,

stores, helping them scale.

ran that up to just over a million bucks.

And then, again, fuck this comes into the next equation.

and then five years ago, around, a certain global pandemic, had to change

countries very quickly and return to New Zealand and, started writing all

my offers in a inside a Google Doc, rather than doing sales calls and

those things just outta necessity.

and ran that up, to a couple of hundred thousand a month.

And, kind of innovated on a few things that I was taught through mentors like

Travis Sego and Guy, and assembled a system, that worked super well for me.

And then when my marriage ended three years ago, decided to,

cut that down even further.

Let go of my team stopped doing services.

I had 3 GHL white labels that I'd partner with people on and just cut

down to two days a week and ran that up in public, to, to 3 million a year.

And, and here we are.

So the, the theme is do something, find that there's probably a better way that

works better for my life, because that was the consistent theme all the way through.

and then, and then work out a way to, to optimize for life and then, and

then get paid to exist along the way.

I bet it's freeing too when you pivot.

Yeah.

It's difficult though, right?

the art of the pivot and, I'm sitting in my office here, there's

a whiteboard over there and, twice a week I get people in this who fly in

from different parts of the world or, a local here in Bali where we have

quite a big, online kind of community.

and everyone's trying to pivot to some degree because they

want more or they want better.

And so, the art of the pivot is, is taking the essence of what you've

already got and works and is successful, and then optimizing it for something

that works better for you and ultimately for the people you serve.

Yeah, it sounds something interesting you said, when you

were, when you moved back to New Zealand and you changed to selling

on the back of the dock, rather than doing Zoom calls out of necessity.

What did you mean by that?

the first lockdowns, that happened in New Zealand meant

that I was literally working in a garage underneath, a house that

we were stuck in for five weeks.

so had two young kids in the house and literally was basically in a cupboard.

at the time I didn't think it was an appropriate place to, be

this kind of high authority, high ticket closer on, on a Zoom call.

because, everything had gone from doing sales calls to, doing it face to face.

And so went, okay, I can make this offer, manually, through a Google Doc.

and that was when I really kind of pioneered, the way that the offers are

financed because I flipped it on its head and, and then really innovated

around weekly payments, which is something I've become known for and has

unlocked tens of millions of dollars out of pe out of audiences and offers

that people already have just through financially engineering them properly.

And so, there was necessity, forced necessity, and then make it work, which,

life has a way of doing that, doesn't it?

Yeah, that's impressive though.

So okay, I can't get on Zoom.

It doesn't look representable.

It's I'm in a cupboard and probably noisy and all that.

So you just put in at a Google doc.

And it's working.

What?

What makes it work?

Everything up to $10 million a year comes down to the offer.

And, the pattern that is happening along the side of my observations

that, of the things I've executed is a lot of folks get really stuck in the

identity of the business they're in.

And then they just run this script and this playbook and

it constrains them in it, for

said, sorry, I'll just jump in there.

'cause this just reminded me an episode I had Johann Nogueira Walt Bayliss.

And, we talked and, they were talking about how they pivoted from

white little suite to, to AI X up.

And then, that was back then anyway, and I was saying, yeah, like some

people have business and they're just too emotionally attached to it.

They don't, they don't let go of it.

And I was saying this is a tip from mate of mine who runs,

he's a CEO here in Canberra.

He runs, innovation center.

And one of the 10 rules of innovation is you gotta know when to kill the puppy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And one of the puppies is people's identity, you at the top of this, at

the top of this, of this show, you said you're an agency owner, right?

And just that choice of identity.

It puts you on this conscious and unconscious in many ways, path.

That means that you do things that an agency owner does.

You act like an agency owner, you speak like one, et cetera.

You talk to other ones who do the same things.

And I've never been good at playing with the other kids.

I've always, throughout my life, attempted to return back to myself in terms of

that I am me and that is my identity.

And every time I've felt myself getting dragged into a place where, hey,

you're a, you're a high ticket closing consultant, you know that, that means

that you do things a certain way.

You have to be selling something expensive on a Zoom call.

The way you present this big price up front, and then you put the, and an agency

owner actually does a lot of things.

And it has a lot of, you have a lot of modalities where you deliver value,

and at the end of the day, when you have skills, you just deliver value

through those different modalities.

For example, an agency owner does tons of consulting and agency owner does quite

a bit of coaching of the people in the business because a lot of the problems the

agency is asked to deal with are actually people problems rather than technical

or marketing or operational problems.

They're problems of the mind and the soul, right?

And so I've just been, good at slipping my way out of the constraints.

A lot of people put themselves on where they say, I'm a consultant,

and they assume that identity.

I'm a coach.

most online coaching, no coaching happens, like most of the business coaching world

is actually consulting because it's giving people systems, methods and repeating

them and telling them what to do, right?

And so, along my journey, I've just been able to, to help people deliver skills,

accumulate skills, coach, consult, mentor, deliver services along the way

in the mix of getting people a result.

And that's allowed me, both a lot of freedom, but also one of the most

efficient businesses on the, on earth because it's me and a virtual assistant.

Because I can monetize every single skill I've got in the most,

effective way possible to me.

That's brilliant.

This is a good segue, monetization, and leverage.

So your skills, your experience, and the craft of coaching.

What is coaching anyway?

It's just getting from somebody, from A to B, like just get them to

figure out, 'cause you're not force feeding them what they should do.

I'll give you, I'll give you two definitions that are useful

for people, because coaching is helping people find the answers within themselves

that they actually already possess.

Yeah.

consulting

,consulting

is just telling them what to do,

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They are very different when you deliver and sell them, because

coaching, can take a lot of time because you have to allow the person

to come to the conclusion or the answer themselves so they can move forward.

Consulting is.

Do this, do you have the resources and tools and, skills

and, et cetera to do this?

No.

maybe I can supply them.

and so, my, my preference is to coach in person and I can

consult in any way possible.

I can consult with massive leverage through, now nowadays, my AI replicant

all the way through to, consulting in a room, set standing on a stage

and telling people what to do.

but I found both for myself and the people in my world that those

distinctions are very useful because you can actually then package those

up and monetize them appropriately.

Yeah, it's important to understand those distinctions

too, because sometimes everybody likes to call themselves a coach and

they're actually consultants, maybe.

so yeah.

That's great.

And with, do you find with coaching it's more like you have to apply in,

Ethical way, apply a little bit of NLP as well as opposed to consulting, right?

'cause it's just information consulting, presenting.

And then also it's just a nice segue, right?

So if you get somebody on the coaching side first just to get their, get them

to come to realization, get them to actually own their new choices, whatever,

then they might come for the consulting.

Because now okay, cool, like I'm ready, I get it now.

That's what I need to do.

Okay, how do I do that now?

And that's like nice swap into consulting.

yeah.

So the business model is lane, it's effective.

And now you are rolling out this new product where you're

gonna leverage the heck out of ai and you call it, virtual jk.

Virtual jk.

I've, I watched your video.

He is me, but he works a lot harder than I do.

I was chuckling, I was having a laugh yesterday.

I was looking on Facebook.

You put up a post and it was like, virtual JK just gave me a roast.

I don't know what the caption was, but it basically got roasting you

on a couple of things actually.

Funny, but do you wanna just elaborate what this whole thing

is and how did this come about?

Yeah.

15. the thing I've been known for over, over a decade is offers.

I've sold 22 million of my own.

I've helped, behind the scenes on some of the biggest offers that people know about.

And when AI came out, I was, how do we, how do I sat six months on the sidelines

looking at it going, how do we use this?

And for me, the process of developing or, building an offer or, or

optimizing, one is quite time consuming.

It had to happen on Zoom or in person, and it could take hours to actually.

Understand the audience, understand, the positioning, the context, the pricing,

the deliverables, et cetera, et cetera, to package something that was truly scalable.

And, the first AI tool that we built was called the offer printer, which was just

taking the hundreds of millions of dollars of offers that I've been involved in and

actually documenting and feeding it into AI to help someone develop an offer.

So I could go from spending two or three hours with someone developing an offer

to that happen in about eight minutes.

when we launched the tool to, to my client base, and I've got quite a large client

base, so, I've got a good testing ground.

they just wanted more stuff because they'd taken one process from hours

or weeks or in some cases months, and condensed it down to, a few minutes.

And so they wanted more and then they wanted, you are the guy

who writes an email every day.

How do I do that?

how do you think, how do you, and so, we accidentally on purpose built a platform.

And then, of a suite of tools, just a lot of people have.

And then I was using school at the time and people were flicking across,

back and forth between the school community features and then going

on Zoom, to, to my weekly, community calls and then going in the tools.

And I was like, this sucks.

So we built community features, then we, when, then we took

the whole, training library and then built it into the platform.

Then we had took everything that we had off our WhatsApp channel

and put it into, community chat.

And, and then September last year we had a full fledged platform and

then people said, can I have one too?

And, 15 people have licensed it, to date, in different ways, which

is really fun and innovative.

And then along this journey, over the past, only relatively recently, the

past three months, I've realized that virtual jk, which was, my do it all.

AI Clone actually was an entity.

it's a thing.

It's alive that people are talking to.

there'll be 60 to 70 people talking to him right now.

And, then when I saw the, we've got 535 active clients in there,

and, on any given day there's about 200 active users on the platform.

He's doing stuff now that I don't wanna do.

I love Facebook ads.

I think the most powerful thing in the world.

I hate running them.

I hate talking about them.

I hate writing them.

I love to see the results from them.

But I'm kind of done, un unless the circumstances are right,

kind of like consulting and, but.

Virtual JK loves it.

He'll be there all day, all night, making you ads and like looking at your current,

we've integrated with, the meta ad library and those things and giving you hooks

and angles and telling you what's good.

And I'm like, this guy's amazing.

And so I realized along, especially over the past few months,

that he's a replicant of me.

He's not a clone, he's actually, a living, breathing entity that people are having,

in, in the back end of our platform, we've got a rich data conversational thing.

and people have said to me that they will have conversations with him

that they won't have with me, right?

Because he's endlessly empathetic.

He's patient, he's, occasionally rude and condescending, but, so am

I. But, the Replicant is developed into a fully fledged entity.

And now he's got his own Instagram channel, and now he's there.

So I'm just training him to be my next million dollar offer.

And, honestly, I'm like, I made a video yesterday and I'm sandbagging it, man.

We're already, we're already at a, we're already at a 15 KA week run

rate with, memberships, with him.

and he's selling, he's delivering, and he's shown me how do we com completely

remove funnels because he just helps people get a game plan from day one and

then says, Hey, this is a great plan.

Do you want to do it together?

Here's our membership options.

One of the membership options, the annual option and the lifetime option that

people choose includes a call with me.

So then we kind of co-work with them.

and yeah, it's, I'm most excited about the replicant because I, there's

so many skills locked up in people.

and this reference is what I was saying before in terms of I meet agency

owners who are amazing coaches and consultants, yet they don't do it.

And they're frustrated with that.

They don't sell it.

They do it naturally, but they kind of want to help more people.

They want to, really get under the surface of a lot of the kind of surface

level problems that agency owners and marketers have to deal with, that

they want to get more under there, but they're kind of constrained by that.

And a replicant throws the tethers off because you can actually work in

different levels, and I have a very simple three tier model now where

you pay a little bit of money and you work with virtual JK and a tiny bit

of me all the way up to you pay a lot of money and you work mostly with me.

And virtual JK does the work that neither of us wants to do.

And, I, that model works for a heck of a lot of people because, now ai.

Can do the things around consulting and execution, layer and delivery.

we've got a new way to, to address the market that gives us the depth

that we want as people who help people, but also the width that other

people want, who just want shit done.

They want, I want someone to run my ads, build my funnel and those things.

And now we've got, ai we can deliver on things that we couldn't deliver on before.

because the execution layer being eaten by LLMs

That's brilliant

and it's fun.

It's fun having a replicant, that's not me.

He can talk shit all he likes about my content and say things

and he can be very specific, right?

He is there to help people get a three K offer, scale it to three KA

week and scale it to three KA day.

He's trained to do that.

He will do it 24 7.

He can help thousands of people all at once.

And, he's focused.

I'm not that focused.

I'm just having fun along the way and getting paid to do it.

So

it's interesting.

I gotta tell you, this AI thing, I've been using it back in 2020, I think.

2021. I was using Jasper, right?

And then they renamed it because they had the shits with Marvel.

And then,

it was, it felt magical back in those days, didn't it?

it was, yeah, it definitely felt like I got a secret

weapon and nobody's talking about ai, so it's this is really cool.

but then, yeah, then the GPT came along and it's just really just open up.

And, last year I was kinda like, I guess a little bit same to like what you

were saying, like just watching it from afar for the first six months and like

trying to figure out what to do with it.

Because it was like, I, and this is all just, I'm just being careful

with where I put my focus and time.

And now, we're all like a little bit ADHD and like by nature as

entrepreneurs, so it's really easy to get.

Stack into all the shiny syndrome things, right?

That's all cool.

New tools and I've been like that for years and I'm just

trying to like self-manage.

So I was like just watching it and I'm, I'm very much entrenched in

the GHL ecosystem and people are doing and seeing what, like Mario's

putting out, like he's building, I don't know, like he's building crazy.

He's on another level.

but I'm just all watching all this and then going back to just, I've

got my own business here to focus on so I'm not gonna do anything.

and I haven't, now I'm definitely like definitely diving into a lot

more 'cause I'm just realizing there's also, a risk of inaction for too

long where you miss the opportunity.

'cause it is now very clear to me that it's just a massive opportunity

with just AI in general, like helping businesses implement it, whether it's

voice AI agents, chat bots, or in integrating CPS or all that other stuff.

I also feel like it's a, there's a window before it just becomes very

easy for everybody and they won't even need you for fulfillment at some point.

'cause things are getting really good.

I don't agree with that.

I think the window's a lot.

I think the window, the D for services and delivery, I think the

window's massive and never ending.

Yeah.

was a marketing director 12 years ago and people were selling, coming

to me and selling automation, right?

They're like, we can automate this.

We can automate that.

I know people are making millions of bucks a year before AI selling automation, and

now we're doing it faster and simpler and they're still selling automation.

It's just AI driven and enabled automation.

So it's the same as, admittedly there's more competition and it's

become commoditized that people still make money from building websites.

the unlock for me was when everybody was paying attention to the tools, which

is the best tool, and that's the same.

I still get asked to this day, what's the best social media

platform to get clients on?

And I'm like, the one you consistently post to

Yeah.

and it doesn't matter.

And AI is what's the best way to use ai?

It's to compress and accelerate a process you already do.

For me, it was just, what do I do first?

I spend a dozen hours a week writing offers, creating offers, optimizing

offers, getting feedback on offers, helping people think about offers.

So build a tool that compresses that.

And then I'd eliminated 10 hours a week in my total hourly, my effective

hourly rate, which, I measure in terms of the quality of business I'm running.

shot up, essentially five x and I'm like, okay, what process can

I apply it to next to compress?

And so when you run process for yourself and for other people, it doesn't

matter what, is it the best tool?

Is it the market opportunity, et cetera.

If you save time and you save energy and compressing a process you already do,

and you turn around and package that, you're better off tomorrow doing that

than you were today because you've got the scarce thing back, which is time.

And it kind of gets us back to the idea of selling on the back of a dock.

You've streamlined the process instead of having funnels to go through and all

the different friction points and touch points to go through to just one dock.

Interesting.

it all, the benefits are just indirect.

one of the metrics I've come up with over the years is offers made.

And the problem or the challenge, if you like, with high ticket closing

is that you can only make as many offers as you can get on calls.

So if you can own, if you've got a sales person and they can do 20 calls

a week, and you can get 20 book calls, you make 20 offers with a document

for the sa with the same funnel on the, with the same levels of traffic,

you can five or 10 x that, right?

So you go from 20 offers a week to a hundred or 200, and

if you've got a good offer.

What happens?

You sell more stuff, right?

And it's just maths.

And, in many cases, people are manufacturing bottlenecks because of

that identity issue, where they're going, this is the way it's done because

that's the way it's done, because I'm an agency owner or I'm a coach.

And you're like, and I'm like, okay, if you say so, but, I'm here to help people

and I come up with ways to do that.

Can we talk about the offers a little bit?

Ka pick your brain on this just a little bit.

for the guys listening as well, what goes into engineering a

good offer like bird's eye view.

promise, time and price and, the outcome is a binary offer.

I, 10 minutes, 10 minutes before we got on.

I invited someone to my mastermind in the Sovereign Society

and it's 400 bucks a week.

You get two calls with me, you get a one-on-one onboarding call with

me, and we hang out three times a year in, different countries.

And you can come to my house six times a year when I open the doors to the

Bali Blueprint and the plan is to build a million dollar solo business.

I can, if I can make that offer in a Facebook message and attach a price to

it, and someone can say yes or no, 99% of people are gonna say no, and 1% of

people are gonna say yes or even less.

then that's the criteria of an effective offer.

And so it has a price, it has a timeframe, it has.

Deliverables and those things when you're getting into the, is this right for you

piece and, it has a goal or an outcome.

And then when you think about other ways you can, engineer something,

you can have guarantees depending on if people know you or don't.

you can have, you can have, different types of pricing that, reflect

the risk that people are taking.

but ultimately the offer has a promise, it has a price, and it

has a timeframe that happens over.

So how would you get to that point where you're pitching

that, that offer, in that message?

Obviously you don't go straight up and just dropping that on the first go.

There's a bit of a fluff in front of it.

Like the sell by chat thing, isn't it?

It is not fluff it's truth.

Sorry.

Yeah, I've been, yeah.

yeah, I'm, bringing.

Bringing the truth onto the table, which is the individual.

In my Facebook messenger, we agreed that he wanted a million

dollar a year profit, solo biz.

He could run on his own before any of that happened.

So when you agree that this is what someone's desire is through

conversing with them, I want this.

Then you ask the magic question when you help people is do

you want some help with that?

And if they say yes, you give them the offer.

So, and this offer to society, over the next year, we'll work together to build

you a million dollar profit solo business.

You can run from anywhere.

We get on a, we get on a one-on-one call to get a plan.

We've got a couple of Zoom calls a week with me.

They're at these times and these times, because the logistics start to come in.

It is 400 bucks a week, or if you want to pay quarterly or annually,

you get these things as well.

Oh, by the way, we also can hang out up to nine times a

year because that's a benefit.

It's a bonus if you like.

And this is what we do it and it's, do you want it or not?

I like

And even at that stage when someone says they want it, it

doesn't mean they're gonna buy it.

right?

Yeah,

And so if someone says no, then that is healthy

because they're not ready.

They don't trust you or trust themselves.

Or there's things they have, they feel they have to do before they do this and

actually pursue the thing they want.

So you, you'll get an objection, I've got some clients that I

don't want to work with anymore.

And I've gotta tidy up those before I move into this.

So I have a quite a large cohort of people who are coming from agency land

or corporate consulting land where they have to tidy up stuff before they can

feel they can like fully, focus on that.

And then I can say, I understand, where you're coming from.

It's if you can give me three hours a week, we can build some clients alongside

of that to get that rolling so you're not turning one thing off and turning another

thing on, which is quite stressful.

So a closer would probably call that an objection handle.

I just actually describe the reality of what's actually gonna happen.

don't burn everything down to the ground and then have to start up again.

Let's get something running alongside it and actually, you're making 20

grand a month corporate consulting.

let's get 20 grand a month of online consulting to, to replace

that so there's no financial stress on you and you can keep moving.

Right.

It's funny, when I was personal trainer, I had, sometimes

like somebody would inquire and or I would follow up and trying to get

them on one-to-one personal training.

And if they were like, really unfit for it was, it happened a few times.

It's like weird one, it's yeah, I really wanna start training with

you, like the offer and all that.

I just need to, lose a little bit of weight first, and then I'll

like, I'll touch base with you.

It's what?

It's like the whole thing of what I'm offering is gonna help you.

Why do you, like, why is it that, is it, I wonder, like why people have

those objections when the solution is.

In front of them

predominantly because people think in identities, right?

And so people

to

in.

the fat person thinks, and the fat person's identity, because they

have a fantasy of what it will be like when they lose weight.

And they're a fat person now because they don't do certain

things and they do other things.

And so they understand that there's a set of behaviors that go into this

new identity of a thin person that they're going to have in the future.

And they believe that's going to the gym and working with a personal trainer.

And then they think that they need to graduate to that.

And so they can't leave the old behaviors.

they feel that they have need to change the current behaviors rather than just

leave them behind and become that person, by default, by just doing those things.

And that, and by default going to the gym to lose the weight to become the

thin person because they've got the cause and effect the wrong way round.

And most people think like that.

They think that.

That the identity in the future is something that, that is,

that happens rather than it just arrives through shedding the old

one and putting on the new one.

the fat person turns into the thin person by going to the gym, but they

think that thin people go to the gym.

And so they've got the causality the wrong way round.

an agency owner pivots into, a more leveraged business, not by

killing all their agency clients and switching to group consulting.

It's by adding group consulting onto the side of it to get more

leverage and more time back.

And then they slowly become a consultant rather than an agency owner.

And so when people think in identities, they think that there's a line

between them rather than this kind of just switching, Seesaw, where

the behaviors just change over time.

That's a great answer.

Thanks for elaborating on that.

Now, how would you coach somebody through that process?

Um, minimum viable actions, right?

people have largely, if you start working with an agency client, right?

And, you're in lead generation and the local business has two

leads a week from their website.

When you ask them like, how many leads a week do you want from your website?

They're gonna say, a hundred or some absurd, success number.

Yeah.

all the agency owners, know what I'm talking about right now.

And they're gonna say some kind of absurd number because they think that success

looks like this because of reasons, right?

And the internet's like mind fucked everybody into what

actually good looks like.

'cause everything needs to be some unattainable exception, which turns

into this, massive demoralization scheme because no one's ever good enough.

And what all I do, as I say, would three leads a week next week be

better than what you got now?

Binary question.

if you answer no.

You're gonna struggle to work with them because they can't think on

any kind of rational level, right?

So you'd be ramming everything down their throat and you've then you'd be like, do

I actually wanna work with these people?

Because their expectation, the expectation gap is so big.

I don't think we can close it and enough time to develop a relationship.

And so when you say, would three leads a week, next week be better?

And you get a yes and you say, this is what we're doing.

And you shrink the time horizon to what would look good to you in a

time that you can actually imagine.

And that's probably tomorrow, next week or next month.

But what a lot of people sell is they go, in 90 days, we are gonna

be generating blah, blah, blah.

And they stretch the success gap out and then they go, why has no one crossed it?

'cause it's really fucking hard.

It's really hard for them to change and it's really hard for you to do that.

And they know that.

And so you've actually sold friction rather than just made it easy and

said, how about we get you three leads next week and this is how we start.

And that's one of the corollaries to why I use weekly pricing and

some of the time compression methods and pricing and payments.

Because you can actually shrink time horizons and get people moving.

And once they're moving all your only job is to keep them in motion.

And many of my most successful clients today, three years ago

were not unsuccessful because they were stuck or anything.

They just weren't in motion.

They were just doing a bit of this and a bit of that, and then

curling back on themselves and et cetera, and sabotaging themselves.

And all I did was like, Hey man.

Should we just put an offer together and put it in a dock

and get a client like one, right?

I've got, there's someone in my community right now, and he's like amazing, right?

He's exited a business, sold an e-commerce business, built another one,

sold it like track record you wouldn't believe in, but he's been looking at

the gurus and he thinks that unless you have a hundred people in your course,

in your community and you're having these Zoom calls with, all these people

going, rah, that it's not success.

So he is not starting.

And I'm like, dude, just get three clients.

That's a group.

' cause in his mind it's hundreds because people less good as him have hundreds

of people in their e-commerce program and the community and their, they avoid.

And I'm like, get three clients.

one or two of them will turn up to Zoom every Tuesday and you'll have,

a pretty quiet community, which means you can lead in and, and over

overserve them at the beginning, which helps you create material.

And then you've got clients to talk about results on the outside, which gets more

clients because success gets success and everything need that's successful.

Starts started somewhere and just needs to be in motion.

And, I've just got good at, at putting people in motion, but I've also got very

good at helping people see that actually the first step is just here, right?

If you didn't have a client this week and you got a client next week, that's a win.

If you're getting two leads this week and you get three next

week, that's winning, right?

So great offers, great content, et cetera, put people in motion

and they keep them there.

That's great.

I like that.

'cause it's like what you were saying before, like the internet kind of fucked

us where we see people who are far

a purple book.

There's a purple book.

It's up

Yeah.

That mind fucked everybody into stretching the goal out.

Isn't it the purple one or the, no, it's the

green one is the latest one.

The,

it mine fucked everybody into stretching the goal out and making

absurd guarantees and massive promises.

So it started this arms race and all it did was drag success into the future.

And the reality is that most people don't make it to the future because

they don't start today and in so many ways, coaching, consulting,

services, mentorship, anything.

Just putting someone in motion and keeping them there and big promises,

huge guarantees, and all these pieces, in most cases the way they're deployed,

served to do the opposite of that.

And I also think when it comes to successful business

is just oftentimes just doing the boring stuff over and over again.

And, not always be motivated by, um.

to keep in the motion is initially you wanna see some success and that makes

you want to keep going into motion.

But then once you form a habit, then you just keep doing it.

It's like brushing your teeth, right?

You don't have to get a carrot to after you brush your teeth, you just do it.

I have this analogy I shared, a few times on, some of the other episodes.

I dunno where I got it from, but, like the habit formation is like

just rewiring your brain, right?

If you think like all the synapses and they're firing particular way, and like

now you're trying to do certain things differently, you have to rewire those.

So to what you're saying, like if you're trying to like be all the way to the end,

which is like the elephant, but it's hard.

it's not gonna happen overnight and it's gonna be really hard

but it's if you're driving the highway right?

It's like a lot of traffic that's like your current, how you're

wired for with your habits.

That's how you used to do things.

and if trying to do a new habit, it's, initially hard.

but over time it gets easier.

So if you were trying to get off that highway, you have to smash the

barriers and maybe there's like forest on either side of that and you have

to chop some trays initially and walk through the bushes and cut some grass

and it's gonna cut you up a little bit.

But then as you go over time,

Sounds hard.

yeah, but get this right Once you've done a little bit of a

path behind you, and that path starts getting a little bit longer over time,

the behind you it starts to grow again.

'cause nature, right?

So it's like your brain.

It's if you're doing a new thing and you stop doing the old thing,

then that, That firing in your brain just gets a little bit weaker

because the new one gets stronger.

So, So it's kinda like same thing.

So if you're walking through that forest, you're making a new path of the hit.

It's hard, but, behind you starts to growing and now you, it's

gonna be hard to go back as well.

so I guess, just gotta chop one, three at a time and, make wins.

it is, it is an effective analogy in terms of

just drop one tree at a time.

my observation is why people find it difficult is that.

they've actually got nothing else going on that's actually important to them.

And the business is escapism to a large amount of people in the online

world because they can disappear into this 21 inch high definition portal

for eight hours a day and pretend that their wife loves them and their

kids are well-behaved, and that the bank account isn't actually empty.

It's just temporarily drained.

And so a lot of people live in this fantasy of their business and what

they're gonna do and what they're gonna be without actually making moving

forward in it, because the shit around it isn't actually enjoyable to go back to.

And so I don't.

Build a business from building a business's sake.

I don't even build a business, I just make stuff and sell it on the

internet and then invite, a couple of hundred people to my house.

one of my houses, a few times a year.

But my life's awesome.

My wife's amazing.

My kids are fun.

My life is actually very simple.

We've, we take the dogs to the beach, we eat nice food, and we travel

for two or three months a year.

having another baby in three months, two months now.

so that will be four.

And everything I do serves that because I like it.

And my business, I made money in a business that fed a life before

that I didn't particularly like.

But it was fucking hard and I kept having to escape into it to engineer good

feelings inside the business of winning, of success, of money, of those things,

and then trying to keep that going when really, when I just sorted my shit out

and built a life that I wanted to live, that business became easy because it

fed the life that I actually wanted.

And that's not I love business.

I love talking about it.

I find it endlessly fascinating.

I think it's a wonderful personal development vehicle, but if your life

sucks, you can still make money, but your business is gonna be hard because you're

gonna keep having to escape into it, and you're gonna squeeze the crap out of it.

Until it's got nothing left, and then you have to go back to your life.

And so people who build, I can tell when someone's building a business that feeds

their life or they're building a business that feeds a fantasy identity that they

want to be known for on the internet, because you can be a different person

than actually, lining those things up.

And like I, use this analogy, I just use my head and my business

and I do it with heart because everything else is, is meant to be

there for me because this is my life.

Wow.

How many people do you reckon are like that, like f fit into that?

that example, I wonder, and then maybe all of

I dunno, man, I don't know.

I will say one thing, it's much easier as you get older because you just

can't afford to give as many fucks.

I'm 46 very shortly.

and you just can't afford to give, you just can't afford to give as

many fucks about stuff you did.

That's when you're in your thirties when it's like really

important and you're trying to do something and find your way up.

And then I think it gets easier with age, but, I'm flying to Korea in 24

hours to hang out with some friends and we live, the people that people

know and we live like that, and everybody's successful in their own way.

And, that includes financial success and material success.

But everybody's trying to optimize the life they live and

who is in it first before they.

Capable of chasing those things to their maximum.

I don't know how, I don't know how big this business gets, doing six figures a

month of recurring profit and it's great.

but I don't know what, I don't know what it's capable of doing, but I

know that if I live a great life that requires money to feed it because we

want another house, or we want more property, or we want to travel, it's

flipping expensive to fly business class with like soon to be four kids.

then I go back to the business and go, who can I help?

Anyone want anything?

What do you need guys?

and then come up with that.

But it feeds something and that's the point for me.

Brilliant.

I think this is perfect time to finish this interview, mate.

If.

and here I thought it was like, oh, we're just gonna nerd out on all the high

level stuff and talk about high level.

how do you use high level, by the way, in your business?

Do you still use it a lot or,

I copy and paste, something I write on social media into high level

and send it out as an email at the moment.

Right.

up until last week, we still used it to, process payments

and run an automation and payment processing and landing pages.

but we integrated Stripe into our platform, and we've built landing

pages inside the platform as well, so we can just deploy them, immediately.

so not a lot.

I loved high level.

My first, my first real foray into.

Monetizing everything and paid to Exist was, a high level

white label called Smart Alex.

And it was, invented at the time because my, my, my Filipino assistant, Alex,

who's still with me after 11 years, people were like, where do I get my own, Alex?

How do I get Alex to do this?

How do I, and then I was like, why don't you guys just get

smart, Alex, because that's got everything that Alex does for me.

landing pages and workshop pages and payment pages and how to build a

course and all those things inside it.

And it was a GHL white label and had 260, recurring clients on it.

And, it was my first true understanding.

It was quite a while ago, true understanding of the people will tell

you what they want an Alex and I just re-conceptualized what Alex was and

packaged it up into a white label.

Yeah.

And, that's, that's been the theme.

But, the honest answer these days is I'm inside our platform.

We're just slowly replacing the things that we use high level for, in a, in an

AI first way rather than, rather than trying to, grab them from another place.

Yeah, it is an interesting shift that's whole, opened up a whole

new topic that we could talk about.

I'm seeing it, people vibe, coding things.

I've got a mate who's vibe coded his own very own CRM that's, in certain

ways better and in certain ways worse.

And then I wonder, do I wanna go down that path?

But then you rely on your own infrastructure and hoping that whatever

the vibe coded, code is is it gonna break?

Is it not gonna break?

So at the moment, I'm very happy to be with high

it breaks a lot.

So

I'm not doing what, I'm not doing what I'm

doing without real developers.

Right.

You wouldn't do it.

You wouldn't just vibe code it with your one V eight.

Yeah.

no, the flow is, I'm ideation, 'cause I know what I want

it to do and I know, and I'm the vision around what it, what I know

clients need and over what timeframe.

I'm ideation.

Then it's vibe coded and then it's handed to real developers to make

sure it's actually, production ready.

And, also infrastructure.

we average across our white labels, 30, 32.

A help desk, tickets a day, right?

tiny, there's technical issues, there's usability issues, et cetera.

Most people don't want to be in the software support game just the same as Mo.

Most agencies don't want to code their own version of high level because

how many times do you need high level support, et cetera, et cetera.

So five coating things for internal use is smart.

when you're condensing process that you've got, very few people are gonna have the

long term appetite to actually build and support and secure, by the way, which

a lot of people are missing, their own platforms and run that infrastructure

because it's a different game.

It's a different business and it's, it's, not gatekeeping it, but, people

should think very carefully about what they want to be in the business of.

I just wanna sleep at night knowing that there is 900 or so

developers looking after high level, and I don't have to deal with that.

And I just look after my customers.

That's what works for me.

And then

peace of mind's.

a very good investment, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I've got R'S feed into my Slack channel and I get those

notifications and it's okay, cool.

I'm in the loop and this is brilliant.

there's no way I would just wanna deal with that stuff.

So, yeah.

It's great.

alright, let's talk about, let's talk the guys about the, about

your offer, what we're doing here.

if you wanna pitch it and then, and then we'll wrap it up.

Just go to virtual jk.com,

Brilliant.

have a chat.

he'll get you a game plan and, the game plan is get an online offer

that you can put into a Google Doc.

Mm-hmm.

use the game plan tool to scale it to three KA week.

and then I show you how to take that to three KA day.

me and him, he's delivering the training now as well.

So my weirdly Americanized virtual accented voice keeps ma making

me kind of sound American, is delivering all the training as well.

And then I pop up once a week on a Thursday and jam with the, you get to jam

with the real JK if you want some help.

So I go to virtual jk.com and if you like the plan, then you can either go and do it

yourself or you can, use my tools to build it, use virtual JKS tools to build it.

See how weird this replicant stuff gets.

It's like him, me, he doesn't go on strike and he doesn't, he doesn't

have a union or anything as well.

So that's the main thing.

Nice.

Awesome.

James, thank you so much for, for being on this interview and

taking the time with this day and.

I don't even know.

Is it, is your day busy?

I don't even think it's busy.

You're probably not that busy.

You're probably like working out and having fun.

You're the only thing in my calendar today.

Brilliant.

I'll do, I'll do plenty of work.

I'll sit here very happily.

But, you're the only thing in my calendar, so thank you.

thank you.

Thank you for that, mate.

last piece of advice you'd like to give to the guys listening.

we got a lot of high level as agencies, entrepreneurs listening to the show.

any last message you'd like to leave?

Yeah.

Everything works, all the skills, all the experience, everything you've developed,

all the ideas, everything works.

just deploy them into a life that you want, that gives you

access and proximity to people that you want to spend time with.

And, if you do those things, then you can, you'll only do the things that

work for you, rather than feeling like you have to do everything,

that actually works in anyway.

I like it.

thank you so much mate.

Thank you so much again for being on the show.

And guys, thank you so much for listening to today's episode on

High Level Experience Podcast.

If you know any high levelers, that would benefit from listening,

please share this episode.

inside high level community, there's tons of questions people ask all the time.

There's new people joining the platform or existing people trying to overcome

certain problems in their business.

And these interviews, we have a lot of amazing guests and we cover a

lot of different angles, a lot of different things from technical to

strategy to, personal development.

If an episode has hit a chord and you know that somebody's asking for it, just.

Do me a favor, do them a favor, just drop a link in there.

Helps them out, helps grow the show.

More people listen and we all benefit.

and I can get even more awesome guests like, like James.

So thank you guys again, for anything like that, head over

to highlevelexperience.com.

Thank you again and have a great rest of your day, everybody.