Having heartache because you’ve reached the end of the road with a coach/mentor, vendor, subcontractor, or employee in your business? 

You’re not alone! It’s difficult for many to say a “loving goodbye” in business. And as business advisors, we’ve witnessed many entrepreneurs add “drama” to what was otherwise a great working relationship. 

That’s why we’re bringing this topic to the table, 

• Why it’s so difficult to say “goodbye” (this one stumped us!) 
• How to avoid adding drama and negative emotions to the end of a working relationship (and what to do instead)
• The simple shift we started using with our approach to business relationships (and you can use this, too)

Head over to iwannacollaborate.com and let us know what you took away from this conversation.

Music credit: The Funkster by Sweet Spot

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Hello and welcome back to the Eavesdrop on Us Podcast.

I'm Jessica.

Hey, I'm Susan, and this week we are gonna talk about, I don't

know if I've ever, it's like the theme of like our, our podcast.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone really talking about this, but, but

this week's topic is like The thing that I don't think a lot of people

talk about, 'cause we always talk about like finding new customers and building

new relationships and onboarding, like everything that happens at the beginning.

But this week we're gonna talk about how do you say goodbye?

How do you sort of wrap up or end a business relationship?

in the context of we're talking about An amicable end.

Not like, you know, something went horribly wrong, but like, a

relationship between like, you know, a coach and a client sort of has

reached its natural end, or Yes.

If you're working with a vendor and it's like, we've kind of reached

the end of this relationship.

You know, how do you, how do you do that professionally?

That's what we're gonna talk about this week.

Right?

I love it.

I love it.

And you know, it's not even a relationship, sometimes

it's just a transaction.

Oh, okay.

It has come to an end and you say thank you.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

And so shall we just dive in because I'm at the bit to dive into this.

Yeah, go ahead.

So what prompted you to, to want to talk about this this week?

It's an observation that I've had.

something that I consistently come back to as a woman in business.

men, this is not necessarily an issue.

I think this is one of those issues where we can say, men approach this differently

than women approach it differently.

You know, it's, professional services as opposed to just pure transaction.

You go into a store, you find an item off the shelf, you pay for it, you go.

Right.

Um, whereas the owner wanted to keep coming back, hence relationship, whereas

sometimes it's just transactional.

I came in, got what I needed, and I went on my merry way.

You know, no harm, no fo but for those of us, like you, myself, attorneys,

business advisors, folks that work in the professional services.

You could even say, dentists, doctors, so on and so forth.

But I, I

was gonna say like From a service standpoint, it could be, yeah,

between the service provider and the client, but it could also be between

the service provider and say a vendor or someone who's a subcontractor.

Yes.

Regardless.

And that, that's really where I was going.

To your point.

you know, this is not an isolated instance.

So your question at the beginning was, where have you seen this?

What, what's prompting you to wanna talk about this?

And it really just comes back to, how do you say, a healthy loving goodbye.

you know, how do you share gratitude?

And I have consistently, over 27 plus years, witnessed

some very unhealthy goodbye.

Where the experience was on par, it was really good.

And without going too far off the mark here this is a lesson I'm bringing

from our military family experience.

You know, we were never in one place all too, but certainly not from

more than two and a half years.

So you knew there would be a farewell.

You knew that there was going to be a goodbye at the end of that experience

of living wherever we were and over and over, I witnessed people either go

through it gracefully or just a hot mess.

And then I saw that mirrored into when I went into corporate the same

darn way, which was so fascinating because I was, I was in, you know,

middle management going into upper manager C-suite, so, Transitory too.

You know, it's not in one of, because everybody's moving up in their position.

Right.

So you're not usually in one position for ever so long.

So how have you seen it in your experience, Jeff?

You know, people saying goodbye.

I'm curious in your world.

You know, since the

thing that comes up for me.

'cause I agree.

I think that saying goodbye.

Hard.

It reminds me of when I had graduated high school and we were all going

to college and there was the, yeah.

We all made it so dramatic, like there were so many tears and it was so dramatic.

It was like, we'll never see each other, you know?

And

I think some of, and you saw each other the next day,

well, the next like break that we had, but, but I think some

of it was our age and you know, we, none of us had really gone

through something like that before.

But you know, the thing when you were talking about that, that really

came to mind is, I think this is emblematic of just, this is a sweeping

generalization of our society and our inability to sort of let things

sort of close on a positive note.

Like it was good.

It was great.

For example, look at how many TV shows exist and how many movies exist.

And it was like, well, there's the, the sequel to the sequel to the sequel.

Like we can't just.

We have such a hard time saying Thank you.

This was amazing.

I was like, we just can't let it go.

So I, I think that when it comes to, in terms of what we're talking about

right now, business relationships, we generally have a very hard

time letting, oh, it's awful.

Letting go and sort of seeing that something has come to its natural end.

You know, I see this happen a lot with, for example, I.

We spent a lot of time in the, in the coaching world, which is, you know,

there's a coach, a mentor, and clients, and I know we've been in groups where,

you've reached the natural end of working with that particular coach

and, and you're like, oh my God.

Like it becomes this like, dramatic thing of, well, I think it's a

interject.

I think I'm really being over overly optimistic there.

I think it's almost a 70% handle it.

It's the 30% that just make it hot mess.

Dunno how to say,

don't dunno how to say goodbye, you know, hot mess.

And I, I wonder why I think it's, it's, I don't have the answer to it

necessarily, but it is an interesting observation of why there is drama created

when you've reached the end of it.

It's like why does all a sudden there need to be, is that what's gonna

make it easier for you to part ways?

I often, I do come to that conclusion.

I really genuinely do.

Often I end up there or my conclusion around that when someone's

chooses, as I would lovingly say.

general sweeping way of saying drama and drama, but you know, they chose

drama and drama because it makes it easier to say goodbye if there's, oh,

you, you did this then blah, blah, blah.

It's easy to say, well, goodbye, you know, versus Thank you for serving.

We did a great thing here.

I'm moving on.

And I think it's really a mature way to approach it.

I think it's also experience with it.

men do have a higher likelihood of learning how to just say

thank you and I'm moving on.

Women do not have that professional experience.

And for whatever reason, we tend to go into the relationship like, well wait.

Whoa, whoa, it's done.

Wait a second.

I'm not ready for it to be done.

But the services are done.

Mm-hmm.

But wait a second.

I'm, I'm connected to you.

I'm not gonna wait.

What?

What?

So there's a little of that.

Well, if I create kerfuffle some trauma and drama, it's, well, can

help me understand what you mean by trauma and drama?

'cause that's a general statement.

It's a very general statement because it really depends

on the individual delivering the whatever, because in all

likelihood, everything's fine.

It's okay to graduate from services.

You know, you mentioned coaching and you know, if you've been coaching

with somebody more than three, four years, You because kind of and

your senior in high.

I'm.

You would agree as a former teacher in a high school setting, I mean, if somebody

was there for four years, what would you say in the four, you know, in 12th

grade for four years, what would you,

oh, time to move on.

Time to go learn something new.

Time to spread your wings.

And that, that's why I was saying, I think in some, in that specific instance,

it's the, this is familiar to me.

It's the emotionality.

It's familiar.

This is safe.

It people know me.

Yeah.

And then it's the unknown of like, well, what's gonna happen next?

So I think some people are like, you know, I'm gonna stay put and, you know,

but, but I think in the context of what we're saying is, saying goodbye,

positively moving on to whatever the next experience, the next relationship,

the next ven whatever, coach, mentor, vendor, you know, team member,

Or school, just going back, you've decided actually I will go get that

M B A or I will get that PhD, or, you know, I hope most folks will never close

the door to learning and experiencing more, you know, so that's one thing I,

I, I really make a point of teaching in our programs, but and it never fails

to amaze me, where usually it's the.

Well, and, and so I think to go back to the question of like what,

when you say trauma and drama, oh yeah.

That can look like, for example, you reach the end of something that's been largely

positive and it's the nitpicking of things as things are kind of wrapping up.

It's, it's the, oh my gosh, did you remember how well

actually you didn't do this?

Or like, this didn't happen?

It's the nitpicking of things that happened months ago.

Yeah, right.

It's the sending of long-winded.

Emails.

ghosting.

all of a sudden you've kind of just like disappeared or the

other person has disappeared depending on where you are in that.

perspective, but I think that's what it can look like.

And I think it's easier for people in some instances to do that.

it's very easy apparently for them, because now I'm the bad guy or you are

the bad guy, or the other is the bad guy.

It's not that, and there's the key here, right?

This is something that it really fascinates me.

There's no good or bad guy here, but there's this.

You did this and you didn't do that.

So now obviously we have a good guy and a bad guy involved here.

You know, one side as opposed to the other side, the other, if you will.

Whereas honestly, it's just it.

We ended the road.

We're good.

You got this, I gave that, I got this, and you gave that.

I wish you all the blessings and the joy in your next journey.

You know?

I have to say 80% of the folks we work with usually are

fantastic with that, well, I just had a really positive experience

recently with a client who wrapped up in June, and it was very clear.

I love that it was very clear that this particular client had.

We, we accomplished what you needed to accomplish as far as what I

specifically was able to help this client with, you know, we mm-hmm.

We reached our goals, we tackled what we needed to.

Oh, and this, it was clear that this particular person needed something.

You know, the next step that I.

Yeah, was not in my scope of expertise.

And so I just remember we had our last call and it was very positive.

You know, it was such a model of like how to wrap things up and she,

you know, they said, thank you so much for such a positive experience.

You know, I've really gotten so much accomplished.

And I think I just, it was clear to me we had reached the positive end of this and I

just said, you know, what's, what's next?

What are you working on next?

Where are you going with this?

And it was see, love.

It was love.

It was moving it in that direction.

That's, and I think some of that, you know, From a business owner, right?

'cause right.

We're talking business owner and that's a, the example of the client, but it's

like not looking at the, the finality of things like a rejection or this person

doesn't wanna work with us anymore.

It's like sometimes, like you said, the relationship, the, the working

relationship has reached its end.

Yeah.

How do you avoid seeing that as a sad.

Emotional.

I, I don't know.

Is that the right way of phrasing it?

It's, so, for

me, it's usually person with a very, the mindset of all or nothing.

Mm-hmm.

And customarily, when I see a person present with an all or nothing

mindset, they usually end up with nothing because it's really not

a healthy mindset, in my opinion.

Of course.

the clients that we choose to work with are usually where, you know,

they have an abundance mindset where sun is better than none.

You're not always gonna get a hundred percent.

And golly, I hope you, you know, we all recognize we're not always

gonna get a hundred percent in whatever we endeavor to do.

You.

So you have to understand how do you make lemonade with lemons because

you're not always gonna hit the mark.

So, to your point, you had a really positive.

Farewell.

Mm-hmm.

I appreciate you.

Thank you for the opportunity to work with you.

All this, so I wanted to share with you an experience that I've had where,

you know what, we worked really, really well together, and technically speaking,

the goals weren't achieved or realized.

Were they, you know, there was a bigger picture in play and I would argue that

they were, as you might imagine, but it was still a very healthy, I wish you well.

clearly you are ready for more, um, support or, you know, a next step.

and it was respectful.

And dare I say, appreciative and, It was a natural coming to the end.

It wasn't okay, client go drop dead.

You know?

Oh, you didn't renew with me, so the heck with you.

I never understood that.

I just don't understand that energy.

I never have.

So, coming back to the very original point, how do you say, a

healthy farewell in this instance?

It was just, I approached it where, you know, I understand we didn't

hit the mark a hundred percent.

We sure chipped away at it.

And I think that's a celebration for you.

You didn't quit on yourself in this process.

You stuck with it.

This is your first step towards that, achievement.

Yay you.

And they agreed.

They agreed.

And they're going on to learn other aspects about their business.

So they're gonna work with a financial advisor, and I think that's smart.

You know, they're gonna get over.

Resistances and the challenges they have around money and

forecasting for their business.

I think that's very wise.

I thought that was an evolved decision for themselves and the

business because I don't work on that.

So yeah, please.

More power too, man.

I, I think it's a terrific move.

Well, can we dig into which we haven't yet touched

on, why does this matter?

Like, why?

Why are we even talking?

Because we're acknowledging that saying goodbye is hard.

I think a lot of people know that.

I think it's complicated, especially when it's a service-based, relationship-based

kind of scenario to say goodbye.

But why do you care?

Why do you, Susan care so much about how we say goodbye?

Like that clearly stood out to you when we were talking about like, what

do we wanna chat about this week?

Yeah.

I.

I have to blow up the bridge behind me.

To me, it's an unfor error.

why does it have to be an all or nothing thing?

I don't understand that, number one.

Number two,

I don't understand why an individual would rather create trauma and drama around what

could be a very healthy experience, a very positive experience with what could be.

Just a simple thank you.

I, I didn't achieve a hundred percent

But

when there was hundred percent, when we did nail it, we did do everything.

See, that's what I'm digging into

because I'm like, well, we're always talk.

We're talking more about the like, wait a second, we, we crushed it.

We did great.

Yeah.

To me it's like, seriously, you're going to get childlike after

all of this amazing performance.

Now with one former client, I did call it out because, Are you serious?

Are you really speaking to three months ago that you were annoyed

that you couldn't get this day in time to meet with me as one of the

reasons for not continuing working?

you're digging deep.

And meanwhile, we've taken them to two and a half million to, you know, knocking

on the door, 3 million per annum.

But that's another conversation.

But what that told me was it's really hard for this person

just to say a healthy goodbye.

I don't have the answer on this one, Jess.

I dunno why people do it.

I think that digs into like, there's probably wonderful

experts out there who are like, I can offer you the answer to that.

I think we've touched on like, yes, it definitely is difficult for people to say

a healthy goodbye, but I think when we think about the kind of work that we're

in, which is relationship based, it's yes.

You know, it's very much like we are the face of our business.

Most of the people we work with are the face of their business.

The implications of not being able to say a healthy goodbye.

it's unfortunate because then just taints the experience, I think.

Well, and I think also

it's so unsatisfying.

It's like, seriously, it's like you're diminish your achievements.

You kind crushed hit pinnacle.

Now you're gonna be childlike about this.

it leaves a little bit of a sour taste.

Do you think there are any like implications to, like, what

I'm trying to get at is, besides souring the relationship, what are

the other consequences of not being able to say a healthy goodbye?

Oh, I would go back to the feast and famine, at least from my perspective.

Yeah.

You know, you're gonna end up with much more, less.

Opportunity and experience and, it's very shortsighted, very, very shortsighted.

I trust and have learned from, 27 years of being in, you know, the people business

in one fashion or another, whether it was government, academia, or private industry.

When you work with people, it's an investment.

That person.

Sure, you're going for the outcome, but I've always been relationship

driven always a hundred percent.

Before it was the cool thing to say, we were always doing that, but I think,

you know, when people do it, I just get totally frustrated and I think why I would

encourage folks to take a look at number one, it's not a healthy boundary, you're

really lacking healthy boundaries because you're emotionalizing something where.

It doesn't, well, I guess that's not really the way.

See here, I get best not knowing why they would do it.

But, in your experience, what is it that you would've hoped they had done instead?

Actually, no,

I know.

Yeah.

I think it's, I think it's one of those where, you know, if the, if we're

speaking about the situations where it was in fact a positive exchange,

yeah, we did meet the goals and there were no challenges as far as, you know,

breach of contract kind of situations.

Right.

We're speaking to those kind of scenarios.

I think it's just from the coaching sort of service based perspective.

'cause that's the world that I'm heavily in right now.

I think the service provider could probably, Do better communication upfront

in terms of like winding things down.

I think sometimes people feel like, oh my gosh, we, I wasn't ready to

reach the end, or, you know, there's the, the fear that comes from it.

I think there's a better way that sometimes we can prepare our clients

for whatever that next phase looks like, because I think in so many

instances it's like, well, I, I feel that I've reached the end, right?

Because I, we've talked about this, I've worked on it in my

business, I've implemented it.

I don't know what's next.

And that's a little terrifying.

And again, this is all me just taking my best guess at it.

I think that's really

interesting.

No, I, I love the, the insight there from your perspective, because I do think,

you know, we can learn to be a bit more transparent with our clients in sense,

you know.

So let's talk about how we would handle that now.

You know, it's funny 'cause I do talk with people about how do you get into

limited partnerships and how do you say goodbye, it's much like how an

attorney would say, well, you're getting married, you thought of how you're gonna

divorce because, so, you know, and, and I think that is a lesson that we.

Our lessons with our clients, and I think that's, that's a productive

outcome of this conversation.

And

I think on the other end, right.

Just thinking about as someone who is seeking to work with the service provider

or working with the vendor, right.

Yeah.

We're, we're on, we're not the service provider, we're the client,

I guess, or the Yeah, the client.

From a client perspective, I think it's one of those where, When you

approach a situation, it's kinda like what I said about the movies.

You know, we kind of look at this like, we're gonna be with

this mentor or coach forever.

I'm gonna work with this vendor forever.

Oh yeah.

And we think about it as like, you know, that no one's going anywhere.

Nothing is going to change.

Like, and that sounds kind of crazy, but that's, that's how I think a

lot of people potentially operate.

And I think if we think about business as this, you know, you're

going to evolve and you're going to adapt and you're going to change.

And people, coaches, mentors, vendors, uh, you know, other people are gonna

come into your business and help you achieve what you need to achieve.

And then you're gonna reach a natural end.

And that's just how it is.

That's just how it's, yeah,

I think celebrate it, to me, being a good, healthy hedonist.

You're not gonna take an opportunity to celebrate something away from me.

I, I've always approached things like, hi five, we did it.

This is great.

Thank you.

I appreciate the effort, the, and I'm speaking as a client.

This has been great.

I can't wait to come back other day.

And I can tell you straight up, we've been at this for nine years.

We're still working with vendors from the first year.

Yeah,

some, sometimes it's like we, we've needed certain individuals

and their skills are continually needed, but we've had various coaches,

we've had, you know, different types of vendors come in and out and they've

brought wonderful things to the table.

Yeah.

And it's the, Us saying thank you, but then the other person being

like, great, we accomplished it.

It's not a rejection.

In other words, the ending of things is not an emotional rejection

again, assuming that we're speaking about a positive engagement.

So lemme tell you about a positive thing that's going on right now.

I've, I've been working with this woman for.

think it's three and a half years.

We would've been going on to four years.

But we're both recognizing that, you know what?

You're ready to graduate.

You're ready to take that next step to another program, another perspective,

another skill, another voice, and we're coming at it rather organically,

to be perfectly honest with you, but it's also teaching me where,

yet again, this is a client because.

Three already in this situation, she'll be the fourth to, step into it.

But it's just once a month check-in.

You know, it's, you've been advised, you've been taught,

you know, this stuff, and.

Fly, fly butterfly, go do it.

And if you need an s o s or a soundboard, I'm available to you.

Love that.

So it's not, it's never like, I love that.

It's never a, we're ending things and we'll never talk again.

It's the all or nothing.

It's the, it's the looking at things from a perspective of let's celebrate

like all the amazing things we accomplished in the last three years.

That's, that's why I said earlier, I think as service providers in

that specific moment, we could show, here's what we've accomplished

and here's what's next for you.

Right?

You're mo you're moving in that next direction.

And so,

yeah, I just, I, I can't tell you how joy filled I'm so profoundly grateful

that it's going in that particular direction, and I think it's something

that we're both keenly aware of, but I think out of this conversation, I'm

getting clarity that that may be the model that I take on going forward.

I hope folks listening to this, may get something from that too,

you know, as to how can they, Take a positive step forward on that.

and honestly, if you're listening to this and you can help me figure out why

people choose to do such, let us know.

Help your sister out, man.

Just, you know, kick me a line or two in the comments

and let me know.

Well, to be fair, I feel like we should probably say like, this

doesn't, this isn't something that happens every day, but it, no, it's

perplexing when it does happen.

We're like, yeah, wait, why?

Why are you doing that?

maybe once a year.

And when it does happen, it, it sticks out like such a sore thumb.

we've also witnessed and heard, you know, lots of instances

from our own clients about that.

So, Susan, I, what would you say to someone who has gone through

that maybe as the service provider, like they've kind of received this.

Surprising kind of drama filled goodbye or just kind of soured at

the end when it didn't have to.

What would you say to that person?

I

am so deeply curious as to what your thought is on

that, and then I'll chime in

after

I was gonna flip it.

I was gonna say it to someone who is seeking to add trauma or drama to it.

No, just what would you do?

I think one,

it's if you truly, as the business owner, service provider,

did what you needed to do, right?

Mm-hmm.

You fulfilled on the agreed upon deliverables and you did that to

the best of your ability and you provided the best possible service,

and that's sort of how things end.

I think it's just having the awareness that it's hard for people to say goodbye.

Yeah, I think that sometimes it's easier for people, like

you said, toward the beginning.

It's easier for people to, do that because then they can just

move on for whatever reason.

I'm not gonna pretend to, to, to explain why they do that.

and then I.

I think it's just, if you did what you said you were gonna do in the

way you said you were gonna do it, you can rest your head at night.

And just know that like some people have to process closing a chapter, saying

goodbye, moving on in their own way.

And sometimes it does not come out the way that we thought it would.

I mean hundred percent.

Mm-hmm.

More.

perhaps more vulnerable in this.

And I'd be lying if I said that as a woman, it's a go-to, right?

It's easier in our head and we receive it.

I'd be lying if I didn't have that quick moment.

Oh gosh, what did I do?

Or what did I do?

And honestly, Either, either my soundboards around me will help me

get a little bit more grounding and tethering and kind of sorting it out.

But I do do that inventory of, okay, to your point, did we show

up in what we assured we would?

Is there anything here that we fell short of the mark on?

I think

those are questions that people just in general

should be asking themselves.

We should,

you know, should, right.

I think this is being professional and introspective in your professional

commitment, but, I don't linger there too long and I, I certainly

don't do that while they're a jerk.

And the first thing I usually go to is Yik.

Okay.

did we have a misstep here?

What happened?

Somebody is expressing that they're really not comfortable and not liking

what's going on, then I usually go to, okay, do a self-inventory.

Did I, Make a misstep?

And if I feel really strong and confident in that assessment, then

it's usually a, okay, are they having a hard time with goodbyes?

Because we've reached the end, it's.

Sadly, it really does end up along those lines.

But then there were times where, you know, it doesn't, but more often it's

that, and I really do take a page out of the lesson from the guide on this one

because, boy do they teach us lessons in business because, being in finance,

being usually the only woman in the room.

You better learn a lesson or two.

And I did.

And I can promise you men do not do this.

If there is a client that you know, just kicks up dirt and

dusting, you know, well at the end.

they're fine.

they sleep through the night and they, they move on.

And I think there's something to be learned there, you know, I'd be remiss

if I didn't acknowledge it and say, huh, I wonder if there's, you know, a lesson.

you know, I always come back to I appreciate you and I appreciate the

opportunity and, you know, I hope that you're, you come to peace with this.

I look forward to reaching back to you in the future.

You know, I'll reach out to you.

This is not a goodbye from me.

This is just, I can't wait to cheer lead you in your next step.

And I think I'll be just as proud.

I think that, oh, you know what I was thinking, you know, what

will we say to the client that is sort of having a challenging time?

Mm-hmm.

With the prospect of.

Closing up that chapter, moving on to the next, you know, I

would say if you think about.

There's seasons and there's, things are not final.

You know, the, the vendor you start with is not going to be your permanent vendor.

The, the coach you work with right now is not gonna be your coach forever.

And I think if you think of things in that, more of that way, less permanent

and more fluid, and, you know, yes, you're gonna evolve and adapt as a

person and celebrate rather, which is, it sounds so much easier to

say, because I know also, like I, it

stinks going through it.

It does because it's also the bittersweet of like, oh,

I love this person and what they've done for, for me and the business.

Yeah.

And there's the bittersweetness about it, but it's also the celebrating of

like, wow, look at what we've done.

And yeah, I think.

If you look forward of like, there's a little bit of mystery

and unknown with where I'm gonna go next, but I trust in myself.

I trust in what this person has done in guiding me in my business and, you know,

I can, I can move forward more positively.

You know, and thinking about that, it's such a great way you frame that.

a colleague, Stacy Martino, Stacy and Paul have a terrific business.

and it's all about relationships.

So if you ever have a moment, check their materials out.

But Stacy taught we were in a program together and we were both students.

And Stacy mentioned, you know, employees aren't meant to be with

us for their whole lives any longer.

They'll be with us for a particular time.

And as we share space and history with them, let's be mindful as business owners.

So you're sharing just triggered that recall from that positive lesson from her.

And that's one that I actually share in our programs.

You know, just remember the days of staying with a company for 35 years

and getting a, you know, really nice watch at the end of it are long gone.

they're the exception, not the rule.

And so enjoy the employees that are with you during that time.

Celebrate their skills, knowledge, and abilities in that time.

I wanna take that lesson into folks that we work with because I think

there's a need in the marketplace for people to be mindful of this,

both in the business and externally.

To your point about vendors and colleagues and joint ventures and limited part.

Mm-hmm.

Such a great way to frame that.

Yeah.

So I appreciate you putting it that way and recalling Stacy's most

amazing lesson that, be mindful.

It's not always the, end, it's the journey how we want to have this journey

is a real powerful, powerful thing.

We, can make that choice to make.

I think we've uncovered, we've unpacked a lot.

I don't think we, we still have some questions, but I

think we talked, I have lots

of

questions.

Lots of questions,

but I do think, you know, the, the curious phenomenon of, Clients,

customers, vendors, partnerships, kind of ending on a sour note when

the relationship overall was positive.

I think we covered a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, you know, I wanna invite the, anyone kindly listening to

this, I mean, you know, chime in, teach us, share with us if you have

some insight and an answer to this.

I welcome.

Alright, and with that, Susan, I'll see you next time.