Having heartache because you’ve reached the end of the road with a coach/mentor, vendor, subcontractor, or employee in your business?
You’re not alone! It’s difficult for many to say a “loving goodbye” in business. And as business advisors, we’ve witnessed many entrepreneurs add “drama” to what was otherwise a great working relationship.
That’s why we’re bringing this topic to the table,
Head over to iwannacollaborate.com and let us know what you took away from this conversation.
Music credit: The Funkster by Sweet Spot
A Podcast Launch Bestie production
Hello and welcome back to the Eavesdrop on Us Podcast.
Jessica T:I'm Jessica.
Jessica T:Hey, I'm Susan, and this week we are gonna talk about, I don't
Jessica T:know if I've ever, it's like the theme of like our, our podcast.
Jessica T:I don't think I've ever heard anyone really talking about this, but, but
Jessica T:this week's topic is like The thing that I don't think a lot of people
Jessica T:talk about, 'cause we always talk about like finding new customers and building
Jessica T:new relationships and onboarding, like everything that happens at the beginning.
Jessica T:But this week we're gonna talk about how do you say goodbye?
Jessica T:How do you sort of wrap up or end a business relationship?
Jessica T:in the context of we're talking about An amicable end.
Jessica T:Not like, you know, something went horribly wrong, but like, a
Jessica T:relationship between like, you know, a coach and a client sort of has
Jessica T:reached its natural end, or Yes.
Jessica T:If you're working with a vendor and it's like, we've kind of reached
Jessica T:the end of this relationship.
Jessica T:You know, how do you, how do you do that professionally?
Jessica T:That's what we're gonna talk about this week.
Jessica T:Right?
Susan:I love it.
Susan:I love it.
Susan:And you know, it's not even a relationship, sometimes
Susan:it's just a transaction.
Susan:Oh, okay.
Susan:It has come to an end and you say thank you.
Susan:Right?
Susan:Mm-hmm.
Susan:And so shall we just dive in because I'm at the bit to dive into this.
Jessica T:Yeah, go ahead.
Jessica T:So what prompted you to, to want to talk about this this week?
Susan:It's an observation that I've had.
Susan:something that I consistently come back to as a woman in business.
Susan:men, this is not necessarily an issue.
Susan:I think this is one of those issues where we can say, men approach this differently
Susan:than women approach it differently.
Susan:You know, it's, professional services as opposed to just pure transaction.
Susan:You go into a store, you find an item off the shelf, you pay for it, you go.
Susan:Right.
Susan:Um, whereas the owner wanted to keep coming back, hence relationship, whereas
Susan:sometimes it's just transactional.
Susan:I came in, got what I needed, and I went on my merry way.
Susan:You know, no harm, no fo but for those of us, like you, myself, attorneys,
Susan:business advisors, folks that work in the professional services.
Susan:You could even say, dentists, doctors, so on and so forth.
Susan:But I, I
Jessica T:was gonna say like From a service standpoint, it could be, yeah,
Jessica T:between the service provider and the client, but it could also be between
Jessica T:the service provider and say a vendor or someone who's a subcontractor.
Jessica T:Yes.
Jessica T:Regardless.
Susan:And that, that's really where I was going.
Susan:To your point.
Susan:you know, this is not an isolated instance.
Susan:So your question at the beginning was, where have you seen this?
Susan:What, what's prompting you to wanna talk about this?
Susan:And it really just comes back to, how do you say, a healthy loving goodbye.
Susan:you know, how do you share gratitude?
Susan:And I have consistently, over 27 plus years, witnessed
Susan:some very unhealthy goodbye.
Susan:Where the experience was on par, it was really good.
Susan:And without going too far off the mark here this is a lesson I'm bringing
Susan:from our military family experience.
Susan:You know, we were never in one place all too, but certainly not from
Susan:more than two and a half years.
Susan:So you knew there would be a farewell.
Susan:You knew that there was going to be a goodbye at the end of that experience
Susan:of living wherever we were and over and over, I witnessed people either go
Susan:through it gracefully or just a hot mess.
Susan:And then I saw that mirrored into when I went into corporate the same
Susan:darn way, which was so fascinating because I was, I was in, you know,
Susan:middle management going into upper manager C-suite, so, Transitory too.
Susan:You know, it's not in one of, because everybody's moving up in their position.
Susan:Right.
Susan:So you're not usually in one position for ever so long.
Susan:So how have you seen it in your experience, Jeff?
Susan:You know, people saying goodbye.
Susan:I'm curious in your world.
Susan:You know, since the
Jessica T:thing that comes up for me.
Jessica T:'cause I agree.
Jessica T:I think that saying goodbye.
Jessica T:Hard.
Jessica T:It reminds me of when I had graduated high school and we were all going
Jessica T:to college and there was the, yeah.
Jessica T:We all made it so dramatic, like there were so many tears and it was so dramatic.
Jessica T:It was like, we'll never see each other, you know?
Jessica T:And
Susan:I think some of, and you saw each other the next day,
Jessica T:well, the next like break that we had, but, but I think some
Jessica T:of it was our age and you know, we, none of us had really gone
Jessica T:through something like that before.
Jessica T:But you know, the thing when you were talking about that, that really
Jessica T:came to mind is, I think this is emblematic of just, this is a sweeping
Jessica T:generalization of our society and our inability to sort of let things
Jessica T:sort of close on a positive note.
Jessica T:Like it was good.
Jessica T:It was great.
Jessica T:For example, look at how many TV shows exist and how many movies exist.
Jessica T:And it was like, well, there's the, the sequel to the sequel to the sequel.
Jessica T:Like we can't just.
Jessica T:We have such a hard time saying Thank you.
Jessica T:This was amazing.
Jessica T:I was like, we just can't let it go.
Jessica T:So I, I think that when it comes to, in terms of what we're talking about
Jessica T:right now, business relationships, we generally have a very hard
Jessica T:time letting, oh, it's awful.
Jessica T:Letting go and sort of seeing that something has come to its natural end.
Jessica T:You know, I see this happen a lot with, for example, I.
Jessica T:We spent a lot of time in the, in the coaching world, which is, you know,
Jessica T:there's a coach, a mentor, and clients, and I know we've been in groups where,
Jessica T:you've reached the natural end of working with that particular coach
Jessica T:and, and you're like, oh my God.
Jessica T:Like it becomes this like, dramatic thing of, well, I think it's a
Susan:interject.
Susan:I think I'm really being over overly optimistic there.
Susan:I think it's almost a 70% handle it.
Susan:It's the 30% that just make it hot mess.
Susan:Dunno how to say,
Jessica T:don't dunno how to say goodbye, you know, hot mess.
Jessica T:And I, I wonder why I think it's, it's, I don't have the answer to it
Jessica T:necessarily, but it is an interesting observation of why there is drama created
Jessica T:when you've reached the end of it.
Jessica T:It's like why does all a sudden there need to be, is that what's gonna
Jessica T:make it easier for you to part ways?
Susan:I often, I do come to that conclusion.
Susan:I really genuinely do.
Susan:Often I end up there or my conclusion around that when someone's
Susan:chooses, as I would lovingly say.
Susan:general sweeping way of saying drama and drama, but you know, they chose
Susan:drama and drama because it makes it easier to say goodbye if there's, oh,
Susan:you, you did this then blah, blah, blah.
Susan:It's easy to say, well, goodbye, you know, versus Thank you for serving.
Susan:We did a great thing here.
Susan:I'm moving on.
Susan:And I think it's really a mature way to approach it.
Susan:I think it's also experience with it.
Susan:men do have a higher likelihood of learning how to just say
Susan:thank you and I'm moving on.
Susan:Women do not have that professional experience.
Susan:And for whatever reason, we tend to go into the relationship like, well wait.
Susan:Whoa, whoa, it's done.
Susan:Wait a second.
Susan:I'm not ready for it to be done.
Susan:But the services are done.
Susan:Mm-hmm.
Susan:But wait a second.
Susan:I'm, I'm connected to you.
Susan:I'm not gonna wait.
Susan:What?
Susan:What?
Susan:So there's a little of that.
Susan:Well, if I create kerfuffle some trauma and drama, it's, well, can
Jessica T:help me understand what you mean by trauma and drama?
Jessica T:'cause that's a general statement.
Susan:It's a very general statement because it really depends
Susan:on the individual delivering the whatever, because in all
Susan:likelihood, everything's fine.
Susan:It's okay to graduate from services.
Susan:You know, you mentioned coaching and you know, if you've been coaching
Susan:with somebody more than three, four years, You because kind of and
Susan:your senior in high.
Susan:I'm.
Susan:You would agree as a former teacher in a high school setting, I mean, if somebody
Susan:was there for four years, what would you say in the four, you know, in 12th
Susan:grade for four years, what would you,
Jessica T:oh, time to move on.
Jessica T:Time to go learn something new.
Jessica T:Time to spread your wings.
Jessica T:And that, that's why I was saying, I think in some, in that specific instance,
Jessica T:it's the, this is familiar to me.
Jessica T:It's the emotionality.
Jessica T:It's familiar.
Jessica T:This is safe.
Jessica T:It people know me.
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:And then it's the unknown of like, well, what's gonna happen next?
Jessica T:So I think some people are like, you know, I'm gonna stay put and, you know,
Jessica T:but, but I think in the context of what we're saying is, saying goodbye,
Jessica T:positively moving on to whatever the next experience, the next relationship,
Jessica T:the next ven whatever, coach, mentor, vendor, you know, team member,
Susan:Or school, just going back, you've decided actually I will go get that
Susan:M B A or I will get that PhD, or, you know, I hope most folks will never close
Susan:the door to learning and experiencing more, you know, so that's one thing I,
Susan:I, I really make a point of teaching in our programs, but and it never fails
Susan:to amaze me, where usually it's the.
Jessica T:Well, and, and so I think to go back to the question of like what,
Jessica T:when you say trauma and drama, oh yeah.
Jessica T:That can look like, for example, you reach the end of something that's been largely
Jessica T:positive and it's the nitpicking of things as things are kind of wrapping up.
Jessica T:It's, it's the, oh my gosh, did you remember how well
Jessica T:actually you didn't do this?
Jessica T:Or like, this didn't happen?
Jessica T:It's the nitpicking of things that happened months ago.
Jessica T:Yeah, right.
Jessica T:It's the sending of long-winded.
Jessica T:Emails.
Jessica T:ghosting.
Jessica T:all of a sudden you've kind of just like disappeared or the
Jessica T:other person has disappeared depending on where you are in that.
Jessica T:perspective, but I think that's what it can look like.
Jessica T:And I think it's easier for people in some instances to do that.
Susan:it's very easy apparently for them, because now I'm the bad guy or you are
Susan:the bad guy, or the other is the bad guy.
Susan:It's not that, and there's the key here, right?
Susan:This is something that it really fascinates me.
Susan:There's no good or bad guy here, but there's this.
Susan:You did this and you didn't do that.
Susan:So now obviously we have a good guy and a bad guy involved here.
Susan:You know, one side as opposed to the other side, the other, if you will.
Susan:Whereas honestly, it's just it.
Susan:We ended the road.
Susan:We're good.
Susan:You got this, I gave that, I got this, and you gave that.
Susan:I wish you all the blessings and the joy in your next journey.
Susan:You know?
Susan:I have to say 80% of the folks we work with usually are
Jessica T:fantastic with that, well, I just had a really positive experience
Jessica T:recently with a client who wrapped up in June, and it was very clear.
Jessica T:I love that it was very clear that this particular client had.
Jessica T:We, we accomplished what you needed to accomplish as far as what I
Jessica T:specifically was able to help this client with, you know, we mm-hmm.
Jessica T:We reached our goals, we tackled what we needed to.
Jessica T:Oh, and this, it was clear that this particular person needed something.
Jessica T:You know, the next step that I.
Jessica T:Yeah, was not in my scope of expertise.
Jessica T:And so I just remember we had our last call and it was very positive.
Jessica T:You know, it was such a model of like how to wrap things up and she,
Jessica T:you know, they said, thank you so much for such a positive experience.
Jessica T:You know, I've really gotten so much accomplished.
Jessica T:And I think I just, it was clear to me we had reached the positive end of this and I
Jessica T:just said, you know, what's, what's next?
Jessica T:What are you working on next?
Jessica T:Where are you going with this?
Jessica T:And it was see, love.
Jessica T:It was love.
Jessica T:It was moving it in that direction.
Jessica T:That's, and I think some of that, you know, From a business owner, right?
Jessica T:'cause right.
Jessica T:We're talking business owner and that's a, the example of the client, but it's
Jessica T:like not looking at the, the finality of things like a rejection or this person
Jessica T:doesn't wanna work with us anymore.
Jessica T:It's like sometimes, like you said, the relationship, the, the working
Jessica T:relationship has reached its end.
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:How do you avoid seeing that as a sad.
Jessica T:Emotional.
Jessica T:I, I don't know.
Jessica T:Is that the right way of phrasing it?
Jessica T:It's, so, for
Susan:me, it's usually person with a very, the mindset of all or nothing.
Susan:Mm-hmm.
Susan:And customarily, when I see a person present with an all or nothing
Susan:mindset, they usually end up with nothing because it's really not
Susan:a healthy mindset, in my opinion.
Susan:Of course.
Susan:the clients that we choose to work with are usually where, you know,
Susan:they have an abundance mindset where sun is better than none.
Susan:You're not always gonna get a hundred percent.
Susan:And golly, I hope you, you know, we all recognize we're not always
Susan:gonna get a hundred percent in whatever we endeavor to do.
Susan:You.
Susan:So you have to understand how do you make lemonade with lemons because
Susan:you're not always gonna hit the mark.
Susan:So, to your point, you had a really positive.
Susan:Farewell.
Susan:Mm-hmm.
Susan:I appreciate you.
Susan:Thank you for the opportunity to work with you.
Susan:All this, so I wanted to share with you an experience that I've had where,
Susan:you know what, we worked really, really well together, and technically speaking,
Susan:the goals weren't achieved or realized.
Susan:Were they, you know, there was a bigger picture in play and I would argue that
Susan:they were, as you might imagine, but it was still a very healthy, I wish you well.
Susan:clearly you are ready for more, um, support or, you know, a next step.
Susan:and it was respectful.
Susan:And dare I say, appreciative and, It was a natural coming to the end.
Susan:It wasn't okay, client go drop dead.
Susan:You know?
Susan:Oh, you didn't renew with me, so the heck with you.
Susan:I never understood that.
Susan:I just don't understand that energy.
Susan:I never have.
Susan:So, coming back to the very original point, how do you say, a
Susan:healthy farewell in this instance?
Susan:It was just, I approached it where, you know, I understand we didn't
Susan:hit the mark a hundred percent.
Susan:We sure chipped away at it.
Susan:And I think that's a celebration for you.
Susan:You didn't quit on yourself in this process.
Susan:You stuck with it.
Susan:This is your first step towards that, achievement.
Susan:Yay you.
Susan:And they agreed.
Susan:They agreed.
Susan:And they're going on to learn other aspects about their business.
Susan:So they're gonna work with a financial advisor, and I think that's smart.
Susan:You know, they're gonna get over.
Susan:Resistances and the challenges they have around money and
Susan:forecasting for their business.
Susan:I think that's very wise.
Susan:I thought that was an evolved decision for themselves and the
Susan:business because I don't work on that.
Susan:So yeah, please.
Susan:More power too, man.
Susan:I, I think it's a terrific move.
Jessica T:Well, can we dig into which we haven't yet touched
Jessica T:on, why does this matter?
Jessica T:Like, why?
Jessica T:Why are we even talking?
Jessica T:Because we're acknowledging that saying goodbye is hard.
Jessica T:I think a lot of people know that.
Jessica T:I think it's complicated, especially when it's a service-based, relationship-based
Jessica T:kind of scenario to say goodbye.
Jessica T:But why do you care?
Jessica T:Why do you, Susan care so much about how we say goodbye?
Jessica T:Like that clearly stood out to you when we were talking about like, what
Jessica T:do we wanna chat about this week?
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:I.
Susan:I have to blow up the bridge behind me.
Susan:To me, it's an unfor error.
Susan:why does it have to be an all or nothing thing?
Susan:I don't understand that, number one.
Susan:Number two,
Susan:I don't understand why an individual would rather create trauma and drama around what
Susan:could be a very healthy experience, a very positive experience with what could be.
Susan:Just a simple thank you.
Susan:I, I didn't achieve a hundred percent
Jessica T:But
Susan:when there was hundred percent, when we did nail it, we did do everything.
Susan:See, that's what I'm digging into
Jessica T:because I'm like, well, we're always talk.
Jessica T:We're talking more about the like, wait a second, we, we crushed it.
Jessica T:We did great.
Susan:Yeah.
Susan:To me it's like, seriously, you're going to get childlike after
Susan:all of this amazing performance.
Susan:Now with one former client, I did call it out because, Are you serious?
Susan:Are you really speaking to three months ago that you were annoyed
Susan:that you couldn't get this day in time to meet with me as one of the
Susan:reasons for not continuing working?
Susan:you're digging deep.
Susan:And meanwhile, we've taken them to two and a half million to, you know, knocking
Susan:on the door, 3 million per annum.
Susan:But that's another conversation.
Susan:But what that told me was it's really hard for this person
Susan:just to say a healthy goodbye.
Susan:I don't have the answer on this one, Jess.
Susan:I dunno why people do it.
Jessica T:I think that digs into like, there's probably wonderful
Jessica T:experts out there who are like, I can offer you the answer to that.
Jessica T:I think we've touched on like, yes, it definitely is difficult for people to say
Jessica T:a healthy goodbye, but I think when we think about the kind of work that we're
Jessica T:in, which is relationship based, it's yes.
Jessica T:You know, it's very much like we are the face of our business.
Jessica T:Most of the people we work with are the face of their business.
Jessica T:The implications of not being able to say a healthy goodbye.
Jessica T:it's unfortunate because then just taints the experience, I think.
Jessica T:Well, and I think also
Susan:it's so unsatisfying.
Susan:It's like, seriously, it's like you're diminish your achievements.
Susan:You kind crushed hit pinnacle.
Susan:Now you're gonna be childlike about this.
Susan:it leaves a little bit of a sour taste.
Jessica T:Do you think there are any like implications to, like, what
Jessica T:I'm trying to get at is, besides souring the relationship, what are
Jessica T:the other consequences of not being able to say a healthy goodbye?
Susan:Oh, I would go back to the feast and famine, at least from my perspective.
Susan:Yeah.
Susan:You know, you're gonna end up with much more, less.
Susan:Opportunity and experience and, it's very shortsighted, very, very shortsighted.
Susan:I trust and have learned from, 27 years of being in, you know, the people business
Susan:in one fashion or another, whether it was government, academia, or private industry.
Susan:When you work with people, it's an investment.
Susan:That person.
Susan:Sure, you're going for the outcome, but I've always been relationship
Susan:driven always a hundred percent.
Susan:Before it was the cool thing to say, we were always doing that, but I think,
Susan:you know, when people do it, I just get totally frustrated and I think why I would
Susan:encourage folks to take a look at number one, it's not a healthy boundary, you're
Susan:really lacking healthy boundaries because you're emotionalizing something where.
Susan:It doesn't, well, I guess that's not really the way.
Susan:See here, I get best not knowing why they would do it.
Susan:But, in your experience, what is it that you would've hoped they had done instead?
Susan:Actually, no,
Jessica T:I know.
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:I think it's, I think it's one of those where, you know, if the, if we're
Jessica T:speaking about the situations where it was in fact a positive exchange,
Jessica T:yeah, we did meet the goals and there were no challenges as far as, you know,
Jessica T:breach of contract kind of situations.
Jessica T:Right.
Jessica T:We're speaking to those kind of scenarios.
Jessica T:I think it's just from the coaching sort of service based perspective.
Jessica T:'cause that's the world that I'm heavily in right now.
Jessica T:I think the service provider could probably, Do better communication upfront
Jessica T:in terms of like winding things down.
Jessica T:I think sometimes people feel like, oh my gosh, we, I wasn't ready to
Jessica T:reach the end, or, you know, there's the, the fear that comes from it.
Jessica T:I think there's a better way that sometimes we can prepare our clients
Jessica T:for whatever that next phase looks like, because I think in so many
Jessica T:instances it's like, well, I, I feel that I've reached the end, right?
Jessica T:Because I, we've talked about this, I've worked on it in my
Jessica T:business, I've implemented it.
Jessica T:I don't know what's next.
Jessica T:And that's a little terrifying.
Jessica T:And again, this is all me just taking my best guess at it.
Jessica T:I think that's really
Susan:interesting.
Susan:No, I, I love the, the insight there from your perspective, because I do think,
Susan:you know, we can learn to be a bit more transparent with our clients in sense,
Susan:you know.
Susan:So let's talk about how we would handle that now.
Susan:You know, it's funny 'cause I do talk with people about how do you get into
Susan:limited partnerships and how do you say goodbye, it's much like how an
Susan:attorney would say, well, you're getting married, you thought of how you're gonna
Susan:divorce because, so, you know, and, and I think that is a lesson that we.
Susan:Our lessons with our clients, and I think that's, that's a productive
Susan:outcome of this conversation.
Susan:And
Jessica T:I think on the other end, right.
Jessica T:Just thinking about as someone who is seeking to work with the service provider
Jessica T:or working with the vendor, right.
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:We're, we're on, we're not the service provider, we're the client,
Jessica T:I guess, or the Yeah, the client.
Jessica T:From a client perspective, I think it's one of those where, When you
Jessica T:approach a situation, it's kinda like what I said about the movies.
Jessica T:You know, we kind of look at this like, we're gonna be with
Jessica T:this mentor or coach forever.
Jessica T:I'm gonna work with this vendor forever.
Jessica T:Oh yeah.
Jessica T:And we think about it as like, you know, that no one's going anywhere.
Jessica T:Nothing is going to change.
Jessica T:Like, and that sounds kind of crazy, but that's, that's how I think a
Jessica T:lot of people potentially operate.
Jessica T:And I think if we think about business as this, you know, you're
Jessica T:going to evolve and you're going to adapt and you're going to change.
Jessica T:And people, coaches, mentors, vendors, uh, you know, other people are gonna
Jessica T:come into your business and help you achieve what you need to achieve.
Jessica T:And then you're gonna reach a natural end.
Jessica T:And that's just how it is.
Jessica T:That's just how it's, yeah,
Susan:I think celebrate it, to me, being a good, healthy hedonist.
Susan:You're not gonna take an opportunity to celebrate something away from me.
Susan:I, I've always approached things like, hi five, we did it.
Susan:This is great.
Susan:Thank you.
Susan:I appreciate the effort, the, and I'm speaking as a client.
Susan:This has been great.
Susan:I can't wait to come back other day.
Susan:And I can tell you straight up, we've been at this for nine years.
Susan:We're still working with vendors from the first year.
Susan:Yeah,
Jessica T:some, sometimes it's like we, we've needed certain individuals
Jessica T:and their skills are continually needed, but we've had various coaches,
Jessica T:we've had, you know, different types of vendors come in and out and they've
Jessica T:brought wonderful things to the table.
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:And it's the, Us saying thank you, but then the other person being
Jessica T:like, great, we accomplished it.
Jessica T:It's not a rejection.
Jessica T:In other words, the ending of things is not an emotional rejection
Jessica T:again, assuming that we're speaking about a positive engagement.
Susan:So lemme tell you about a positive thing that's going on right now.
Susan:I've, I've been working with this woman for.
Susan:think it's three and a half years.
Susan:We would've been going on to four years.
Susan:But we're both recognizing that, you know what?
Susan:You're ready to graduate.
Susan:You're ready to take that next step to another program, another perspective,
Susan:another skill, another voice, and we're coming at it rather organically,
Susan:to be perfectly honest with you, but it's also teaching me where,
Susan:yet again, this is a client because.
Susan:Three already in this situation, she'll be the fourth to, step into it.
Susan:But it's just once a month check-in.
Susan:You know, it's, you've been advised, you've been taught,
Susan:you know, this stuff, and.
Susan:Fly, fly butterfly, go do it.
Susan:And if you need an s o s or a soundboard, I'm available to you.
Jessica T:Love that.
Jessica T:So it's not, it's never like, I love that.
Jessica T:It's never a, we're ending things and we'll never talk again.
Jessica T:It's the all or nothing.
Jessica T:It's the, it's the looking at things from a perspective of let's celebrate
Jessica T:like all the amazing things we accomplished in the last three years.
Jessica T:That's, that's why I said earlier, I think as service providers in
Jessica T:that specific moment, we could show, here's what we've accomplished
Jessica T:and here's what's next for you.
Jessica T:Right?
Jessica T:You're mo you're moving in that next direction.
Jessica T:And so,
Susan:yeah, I just, I, I can't tell you how joy filled I'm so profoundly grateful
Susan:that it's going in that particular direction, and I think it's something
Susan:that we're both keenly aware of, but I think out of this conversation, I'm
Susan:getting clarity that that may be the model that I take on going forward.
Susan:I hope folks listening to this, may get something from that too,
Susan:you know, as to how can they, Take a positive step forward on that.
Susan:and honestly, if you're listening to this and you can help me figure out why
Susan:people choose to do such, let us know.
Susan:Help your sister out, man.
Susan:Just, you know, kick me a line or two in the comments
Jessica T:and let me know.
Jessica T:Well, to be fair, I feel like we should probably say like, this
Jessica T:doesn't, this isn't something that happens every day, but it, no, it's
Jessica T:perplexing when it does happen.
Jessica T:We're like, yeah, wait, why?
Jessica T:Why are you doing that?
Susan:maybe once a year.
Susan:And when it does happen, it, it sticks out like such a sore thumb.
Jessica T:we've also witnessed and heard, you know, lots of instances
Jessica T:from our own clients about that.
Jessica T:So, Susan, I, what would you say to someone who has gone through
Jessica T:that maybe as the service provider, like they've kind of received this.
Jessica T:Surprising kind of drama filled goodbye or just kind of soured at
Jessica T:the end when it didn't have to.
Jessica T:What would you say to that person?
Jessica T:I
Susan:am so deeply curious as to what your thought is on
Susan:that, and then I'll chime in
Susan:after
Jessica T:I was gonna flip it.
Jessica T:I was gonna say it to someone who is seeking to add trauma or drama to it.
Susan:No, just what would you do?
Susan:I think one,
Jessica T:it's if you truly, as the business owner, service provider,
Jessica T:did what you needed to do, right?
Jessica T:Mm-hmm.
Jessica T:You fulfilled on the agreed upon deliverables and you did that to
Jessica T:the best of your ability and you provided the best possible service,
Jessica T:and that's sort of how things end.
Jessica T:I think it's just having the awareness that it's hard for people to say goodbye.
Jessica T:Yeah, I think that sometimes it's easier for people, like
Jessica T:you said, toward the beginning.
Jessica T:It's easier for people to, do that because then they can just
Jessica T:move on for whatever reason.
Jessica T:I'm not gonna pretend to, to, to explain why they do that.
Jessica T:and then I.
Jessica T:I think it's just, if you did what you said you were gonna do in the
Jessica T:way you said you were gonna do it, you can rest your head at night.
Jessica T:And just know that like some people have to process closing a chapter, saying
Jessica T:goodbye, moving on in their own way.
Jessica T:And sometimes it does not come out the way that we thought it would.
Susan:I mean hundred percent.
Susan:Mm-hmm.
Susan:More.
Susan:perhaps more vulnerable in this.
Susan:And I'd be lying if I said that as a woman, it's a go-to, right?
Susan:It's easier in our head and we receive it.
Susan:I'd be lying if I didn't have that quick moment.
Susan:Oh gosh, what did I do?
Susan:Or what did I do?
Susan:And honestly, Either, either my soundboards around me will help me
Susan:get a little bit more grounding and tethering and kind of sorting it out.
Susan:But I do do that inventory of, okay, to your point, did we show
Susan:up in what we assured we would?
Susan:Is there anything here that we fell short of the mark on?
Susan:I think
Jessica T:those are questions that people just in general
Jessica T:should be asking themselves.
Jessica T:We should,
Susan:you know, should, right.
Susan:I think this is being professional and introspective in your professional
Susan:commitment, but, I don't linger there too long and I, I certainly
Susan:don't do that while they're a jerk.
Susan:And the first thing I usually go to is Yik.
Susan:Okay.
Susan:did we have a misstep here?
Susan:What happened?
Susan:Somebody is expressing that they're really not comfortable and not liking
Susan:what's going on, then I usually go to, okay, do a self-inventory.
Susan:Did I, Make a misstep?
Susan:And if I feel really strong and confident in that assessment, then
Susan:it's usually a, okay, are they having a hard time with goodbyes?
Susan:Because we've reached the end, it's.
Susan:Sadly, it really does end up along those lines.
Susan:But then there were times where, you know, it doesn't, but more often it's
Susan:that, and I really do take a page out of the lesson from the guide on this one
Susan:because, boy do they teach us lessons in business because, being in finance,
Susan:being usually the only woman in the room.
Susan:You better learn a lesson or two.
Susan:And I did.
Susan:And I can promise you men do not do this.
Susan:If there is a client that you know, just kicks up dirt and
Susan:dusting, you know, well at the end.
Susan:they're fine.
Susan:they sleep through the night and they, they move on.
Susan:And I think there's something to be learned there, you know, I'd be remiss
Susan:if I didn't acknowledge it and say, huh, I wonder if there's, you know, a lesson.
Susan:you know, I always come back to I appreciate you and I appreciate the
Susan:opportunity and, you know, I hope that you're, you come to peace with this.
Susan:I look forward to reaching back to you in the future.
Susan:You know, I'll reach out to you.
Susan:This is not a goodbye from me.
Susan:This is just, I can't wait to cheer lead you in your next step.
Susan:And I think I'll be just as proud.
Jessica T:I think that, oh, you know what I was thinking, you know, what
Jessica T:will we say to the client that is sort of having a challenging time?
Jessica T:Mm-hmm.
Jessica T:With the prospect of.
Jessica T:Closing up that chapter, moving on to the next, you know, I
Jessica T:would say if you think about.
Jessica T:There's seasons and there's, things are not final.
Jessica T:You know, the, the vendor you start with is not going to be your permanent vendor.
Jessica T:The, the coach you work with right now is not gonna be your coach forever.
Jessica T:And I think if you think of things in that, more of that way, less permanent
Jessica T:and more fluid, and, you know, yes, you're gonna evolve and adapt as a
Jessica T:person and celebrate rather, which is, it sounds so much easier to
Jessica T:say, because I know also, like I, it
Susan:stinks going through it.
Jessica T:It does because it's also the bittersweet of like, oh,
Jessica T:I love this person and what they've done for, for me and the business.
Jessica T:Yeah.
Jessica T:And there's the bittersweetness about it, but it's also the celebrating of
Jessica T:like, wow, look at what we've done.
Jessica T:And yeah, I think.
Jessica T:If you look forward of like, there's a little bit of mystery
Jessica T:and unknown with where I'm gonna go next, but I trust in myself.
Jessica T:I trust in what this person has done in guiding me in my business and, you know,
Jessica T:I can, I can move forward more positively.
Susan:You know, and thinking about that, it's such a great way you frame that.
Susan:a colleague, Stacy Martino, Stacy and Paul have a terrific business.
Susan:and it's all about relationships.
Susan:So if you ever have a moment, check their materials out.
Susan:But Stacy taught we were in a program together and we were both students.
Susan:And Stacy mentioned, you know, employees aren't meant to be with
Susan:us for their whole lives any longer.
Susan:They'll be with us for a particular time.
Susan:And as we share space and history with them, let's be mindful as business owners.
Susan:So you're sharing just triggered that recall from that positive lesson from her.
Susan:And that's one that I actually share in our programs.
Susan:You know, just remember the days of staying with a company for 35 years
Susan:and getting a, you know, really nice watch at the end of it are long gone.
Susan:they're the exception, not the rule.
Susan:And so enjoy the employees that are with you during that time.
Susan:Celebrate their skills, knowledge, and abilities in that time.
Susan:I wanna take that lesson into folks that we work with because I think
Susan:there's a need in the marketplace for people to be mindful of this,
Susan:both in the business and externally.
Susan:To your point about vendors and colleagues and joint ventures and limited part.
Susan:Mm-hmm.
Susan:Such a great way to frame that.
Susan:Yeah.
Susan:So I appreciate you putting it that way and recalling Stacy's most
Susan:amazing lesson that, be mindful.
Susan:It's not always the, end, it's the journey how we want to have this journey
Susan:is a real powerful, powerful thing.
Susan:We, can make that choice to make.
Jessica T:I think we've uncovered, we've unpacked a lot.
Jessica T:I don't think we, we still have some questions, but I
Jessica T:think we talked, I have lots
Jessica T:of
Susan:questions.
Susan:Lots of questions,
Jessica T:but I do think, you know, the, the curious phenomenon of, Clients,
Jessica T:customers, vendors, partnerships, kind of ending on a sour note when
Jessica T:the relationship overall was positive.
Jessica T:I think we covered a lot.
Susan:Yeah.
Susan:Yeah.
Susan:And I, you know, I wanna invite the, anyone kindly listening to
Susan:this, I mean, you know, chime in, teach us, share with us if you have
Susan:some insight and an answer to this.
Susan:I welcome.
Jessica T:Alright, and with that, Susan, I'll see you next time.