My sister Becky and I are letting it all out about being that 'chaos friend.' You know, the friend who's always in the center of a mess? Spoiler alert: I found out I'm one of them! We get into the nitty-gritty of how this realization has changed the way I look at myself and my relationships. We're diving deep into our personal coping strategies, health hiccups, and how all of this ties into our mental well-being. We also talk about how hard it is to keep our problems to ourselves because of the fear of being 'too much.' But guess what? It's okay to acknowledge our limitations. It's a struggle to make decisions that don't end up in chaos, but we're learning and growing every day. Remember, it's all about accepting ourselves, managing our anxiety and understanding that we're not alone in this. We hope this chat brings some comfort to anyone out there who might be a chaos friend or know one.

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Welcome to sharing the middle, where we explore the messy metals

2

of life by telling our stories and

learning from each other's stories.

3

I'm Lacey, your friend in the

middle and today we're continuing.

4

To tell my story through conversation

with some of the people in my life.

5

This story is with my sister, Becky.

6

And we talk about being a chaos friend.

7

I tell a little bit about it in

the actual podcast, but I want to

8

get, give you some more background.

9

I saw a.

10

Post from the social search

engine diem about what to do

11

when you have a chaos friend.

12

Who is.

13

Taking up a lot.

14

Of your life.

15

And I realized, oh no,

I am the chaos friend.

16

And I also realized that my sister, Becky

has been the chaos friend, my entire

17

life as well, that person, that things

are always happening to no matter what.

18

And that Ooh.

19

They're going through a lot

and there's only so much you

20

can do that kind of thing.

21

Becky.

22

And I get really deep in this one.

23

And I learned a lot about my

coping mechanisms through life.

24

And More ways that I've always

tried to make myself small.

25

To be the most palatable

version of myself.

26

So it's a deep conversation

that I hope you either.

27

Get a little bit more empathy

for your chaos friend.

28

Or have a little bit more.

29

Insight into what's

going on in their mind.

30

And if you are the chaos

friend, we see you.

31

We feel you, my friend.

32

All right, let's jump right in.

33

Lacey (2): In true Chaos Friend,

fashion, we are starting 25 minutes

34

later than our assigned time because

we've had to update each other on the

35

chaos that is currently happening live.

36

Becky: huh.

37

Yep.

38

Lacey (2): this, episode, the idea of

it came from a post That I saw on, Diem,

39

and it's, it was about being the not

chaos friend, but having a chaos friend

40

and the friend that stuff just always

happens to, and I was just like, oh.

41

I am now the chaos friend , like I

could go down the laundry list of all

42

of the chaos I've had in the past year.

43

And then I thought,

who's my OG chaos friend?

44

It's technically my sister.

45

My sister Becky is my OG chaos friend.

46

And I just thought, then

let's talk about it.

47

Let's talk about what it's like

to be the chaos friend, why we

48

think we're the chaos friend.

49

and all those different things.

50

So I'm welcoming once again, my dear

sister, Becky, to sharing the middle.

51

Hi, Becky.

52

Becky: I'm gonna try not to yell today.

53

Really hard.

54

Lacey: You're breaking up a little bit,

55

Becky: Oh no!

56

Lacey: Yeah.

57

it literally says Network, is struggling.

58

which I'm just like, yep.

59

Fits

60

Becky: on

61

Lacey: on brand.

62

Becky: Okay.

63

I said I was going to

try not to yell today.

64

But.

65

Lacey: My question for you,

Becky, , when I asked you to do this

66

podcast with me, your response was

to laugh and say, yes, but I'd like

67

to hear a little bit more about that

reaction and what you were thinking.

68

Becky: Said, the idea that you, one

day realized you were the chaos friend.

69

And that was like a, ooh,

like it's almost like a sting.

70

that you experience when you look in

the mirror, when you're like, Oh God,

71

I'm the one always bringing the problem.

72

and so when you said Hey, do

you want to talk about that?

73

And I was like, how much time you got?

74

that is something I could talk

about in so many ways for so long.

75

But.

76

That was my reaction and that's

how I was like, yeah, hey,

77

let's just put it on the table.

78

Let's just put it out there.

79

Why not be vulnerable?

80

Lacey: Yeah.

81

So I do wanna define

Chaos friend a little bit.

82

It's the idea that there, you always

have that one friend who something's

83

always happening to, whether or

not, I think a lot of people will

84

think of it as they're making it up,

but in reality, it doesn't matter.

85

I would argue that I am not making it up.

86

Becky is not making it up.

87

but, that it's just, It's challenging

to be that person's friend, and after

88

I read that, I actually sent a video

to some of my friends, and I was

89

like, I'm sorry I'm your chaos friend.

90

I, I feel bad when somebody asks

me how I am, and I'm like, well,

91

Becky: I'm here.

92

Lacey: I'm here

93

Becky: I'm here is my answer.

94

You said, we're not making it up.

95

We're not making it up.

96

But, we're making it happen in other

ways, which is real hard to face.

97

Because that, you have to straddle

the line of accepting responsibility

98

of your choices without the shame

of, I'm doing this to myself.

99

Because shame itself just brings

so, so much chaos that is unhelpful.

100

Lacey: coming.

101

I do agree with you and we'll talk

more about that in a lot of ways.

102

Like I know, especially for me with

health, my health, my physical health

103

is very much tinded to my mental health.

104

that doesn't mean, that I'm making it up.

105

It just means it is a huge factor.

106

but then, like last year there

was a period of time where it was

107

like our grandma died and then we

were moving and then my dog died.

108

And I'm like, Nope.

109

I'm not taking ownership

for a start with that.

110

Becky: are not.

111

And if all of those things

happened in one year, nobody

112

would call you the chaos friend.

113

It's all the other stuff that

makes you the chaos friend.

114

Lacey: That is true.

115

I do.

116

But I do.

117

I want you to explain that

more because I understand it.

118

I don't know if a listener who's not

a chaos friend could understand it.

119

Becky: I don't know.

120

so you, those things were all

outside of your control completely.

121

you guys needed to move.

122

That was just gonna have to happen.

123

grandma dying, completely

out of your control.

124

there is absolutely nothing we can do.

125

Pets passing away.

126

I guess the argument there would be

like, you could choose not to have pets.

127

I don't know.

128

I would say that it is absolutely

worth having a pet and the

129

challenges that come with them.

130

But I think that when I look at some of

the things that have come to me and I work

131

backwards to look at where did this start?

132

It certainly starts with a choice

that I made and choices that I made

133

to continue those things happening.

134

when I think back to what I called

135

Like I go back to 2017 and I'm

like, what did I do that year?

136

And I go back and I'm like, Oh my

God, it was like every single month

137

Lacey: see it,

138

Becky: made a choice

139

to maybe just extend

myself just a little more

140

and maybe I shouldn't have.

141

I will say I was,

142

successful and it was like, I'm

going to be successful in every way

143

Lacey: moment.

144

Becky: I, don't feel bad for

wanting to be successful.

145

and I don't think any of those choices

individually were poor choices.

146

I think at some point in time

I needed to go, wait a minute.

147

And maybe this isn't something I need to

take on right now, but I think I was so

148

frantically just trying to do, or really

I, what I realized the other night, after

149

talking to my youngest, is that I think it

was what I was running from was anxiety.

150

Like I was trying to.

151

I outdo my anxiety by

having something to do

152

Lacey: Just

153

Becky: like our other sister, right?

154

the stuff starts to spill over.

155

If you pile so much on,

the plate is gonna break.

156

And maybe it was one too many

scoops of, the mashed potatoes.

157

Maybe, the roll was just

one too many carbs, but

158

Lacey: too many.

159

Okay.

160

Becky: one too many is, any one of those

things could have been the one too many.

161

So back to 2017.

162

I, January, I decided to get my,

Zumba certification, which alone

163

should not have been an issue.

164

Me learning how to do Zumba would

have been great for my body, right?

165

Lacey: Absolutely.

166

Becky: then I decided to leave the job

that I had because there was chaos there.

167

and then I started my own private practice

again, not a terrible decision on its own.

168

we had the pet saga, which is

something that half in my control,

169

half out spiraled completely.

170

but I could have chosen not

to do the pet thing at all.

171

And that wouldn't have happened.

172

Lacey: Yeah.

173

Becky: Jimmy toured his Achilles that

year, we went to, Zincon, and so it was

174

like an additional trip, yeah, the Zumba,

conference, so the, it's the arranging

175

of that and being there and right.

176

It's.

177

It's an extra trip that goes

with all of the anxieties of it.

178

and then I think like somebody

else started playing another sport.

179

it was just like I go through

the whole year and I'm like,

180

Oh, and then this happened.

181

And, oh yeah, Belle had to

have that surgery that year.

182

And there was just so many things that.

183

No wonder my body broke.

184

It was like, we're done.

185

We're done.

186

We're out.

187

No more.

188

We have given you signs.

189

Lacey: huh.

190

Becky: I started that, that

fall, I started having a headache

191

that I couldn't get rid of.

192

And it would be like mild, or it

would creep up into a migraine.

193

And it was, it just, I

couldn't get rid of it.

194

And that was obviously a sign

and I just powered through.

195

I remember going to work and I

would have a cancellation and I

196

would be so excited that I would

have an hour to just lay down.

197

Lacey: but at

198

The time, did you feel stressed?

199

this is something that

I'm still working through.

200

if someone was like, are you stressed?

201

Would you have said yes?

202

I

203

Becky: had this conversation

when he's just don't overdo it.

204

And I just started laughing.

205

And he's like, why is that funny?

206

I was like, cause I don't

think I know what that is.

207

I don't think I know what that is.

208

And he's just if it's

too much, don't do it.

209

And I'm like, but what's too much.

210

And he said, your body, and I was like, I

don't think I know what my body is like.

211

I think I programmed myself very early

in life, not to listen to my body

212

Lacey: Very much Yes.

213

my body's always been my enemy,

214

Becky: and I received praise for not

listening to my body Over and over again.

215

And

216

Lacey: How

217

Becky: Oh, geez.

218

wow.

219

My brain is going this and

this and this and this.

220

one of the ones that pops up in my

mind that is one of those things

221

where you're like, but is that good?

222

Is that good that you can do that?

223

maybe we should talk about that.

224

when I dislocated my kneecap,

over and over and over again.

225

And it like, I think back and

I'm like, what were we thinking?

226

Like, why was I still on a

soccer field playing soccer?

227

If days ago, my kneecap was

not where it needed to be.

228

Yet I was back on the soccer field.

229

Why was that a good plan?

230

It wasn't, it was a terrible plan.

231

And the fact that I could dislocate

it, pop it back into place

232

myself, and then proceed forward

like that was an okay decision.

233

And I think for dad, he

was like, see, she's tough.

234

Look how tough she is.

235

Lacey: Yeah.

236

Becky: And I, even to this day,

people will be like, wow, that's hard.

237

And I'm like, that's fine.

238

I know I'm tough.

239

Okay, maybe I shouldn't be,

240

too tough,

241

Lacey: Yeah.

242

Becky: I, the endometriosis was

just messages over and over and

243

over again to not listen to my body.

244

Just take some more Advil, just

I was wearing, and this is one of

245

those things you're like, whoa.

246

They gave me these patches

that were lidocaine to put on

247

my abdomen to numb the pain.

248

Lacey: Oh, cool, cool,

249

Becky: Yeah, so the message is

not let's address the problem.

250

It's let's just make it so

you don't feel the pain.

251

Lacey: off

252

Becky: when I got hit by the snowplow,

the answer was to put a TENS unit

253

on me so I can return to work.

254

Again, let's not pay attention

to the problem, let's just stop

255

our brain from hearing the pain.

256

Lacey: Yeah.

257

Yeah.

258

Becky: kneecap, into, I'm, we're

talking 10 years, 10 years of my

259

life, and at that point, it was like

half of my life, was being told, just

260

don't listen to that, And it became

habit to the point where it started

261

to affect multiple systems of my body.

262

so I became very thin.

263

And boy, when I look back at some

of these pictures, I like, I'm like,

264

did anybody notice how thin I was?

265

And I remember people

telling me, you look thin.

266

but in 98 being thin was the thing,

267

Lacey: Yeah.

268

Yeah.

269

Becky: work.

270

How did you not notice that?

271

I just didn't need it.

272

It just wasn't a problem.

273

And not only that, not only did I

not eat and it wasn't a problem.

274

It was only when people

be like, you're lying.

275

about eating.

276

And they were like, are you anorexic?

277

And I'm like, I'm not making

the choice to be thin.

278

I'm not making a choice to not eat.

279

It was just, my body's not

hungry so I'm not feeding it.

280

Lacey: It's so interesting that

I have almost the exact opposite

281

experience, but have a similar

outcome of not listening to my body,

282

especially when it comes around food.

283

It's I've always been big, right?

284

literally the biggest person.

285

I was 10 pounds, 5 ounces when I was born.

286

I have always been big.

287

There's never been a time in my

life where I have not been big.

288

And listening to my body was like, Hey.

289

I'm hungry.

290

I don't, I've never had

a binge eating problem.

291

I really don't think I have

ever had an emotional eating

292

problem or anything like that.

293

For me, it was like, my body

is hungry, so I am eating.

294

Was I eating the greatest stuff?

295

Heck no.

296

I'm, I am who I am, but I don't think,

I was not eating differently than

297

anybody around me that I could see.

298

And I had the opposite problem

where listening to my body

299

meant my body was not The Right.

300

kind of body because I was the

opposite of thin, and not that, I do

301

want to say, mom and dad always were

trying to make sure I was healthy.

302

No one was saying like you're

fat or anything like that.

303

But,

304

I think at that time it was normal

to put your 13 year old on a diet.

305

and.

306

And that kind of stuff.

307

And again, everybody has great intentions,

but that's how I learned to not trust

308

my body is that I was listening to

it and I was listening to it and

309

it was telling me the wrong thing.

310

So now I don't trust it.

311

I'm not going to listen to it anymore.

312

so I was punished for listening to

my body instead of being rewarded

313

for not, if that makes sense.

314

Becky: huh.

315

But I think about how much I weighed

then, And I only weigh 10 more

316

pounds than Millie does right now.

317

Lacey: Yeah, I buy that.

318

Becky: Which, like, anxiety response,

flashing lights, there should be sirens.

319

Lacey: can I ask you, what

is your anxiety response?

320

Becky: what do you mean?

321

Lacey: feel like in your body?

322

Becky: I think that anxiety in my

body often does happen in my stomach.

323

Do I think it happens in other ways?

324

Yes.

325

But I think that's one of my first

indicators that I learned very on.

326

and I am watching my youngest go

through this process of, she's but my

327

stomach hurts, but my stomach hurts.

328

And I've been like, we're like,

I'm like, we're going to medically

329

get to the bottom of this.

330

And it was just the other day

that she said, I, my brain

331

is doing this all the time.

332

I'm always looking for the next

thing that I have to fix, the

333

next thing I have to avoid.

334

And I'm like, babe, that's anxiety.

335

and we went through the process of

discussing how anxiety can basically

336

gradually break you down and take your

life from you and eventually I told her, I

337

said, you're going to end up just in bed.

338

Not going anywhere, not interacting with

anybody, not doing anything, because

339

there's always going to be a reason

that your anxiety is going to find.

340

and she's what do you mean?

341

And I was like, at what point do you

get so worried about everybody at school

342

that it starts to affect your body?

343

And then you feel sick.

344

And then you become sick, like

you're throwing up or whatever.

345

And.

346

It's because you've worked yourself sick

347

and she's Oh, that's a real thing.

348

Oh, hun, we

349

Lacey: You ask some

people, no, but yes, it is.

350

Becky: and this is Christ.

351

We came from somebody and the

people who we came from said

352

those words to each other.

353

Because they're like, yep, that's a thing.

354

You can do it.

355

And it really, that you can overwhelm

and tax your body by putting so

356

much mental strain on yourself.

357

It just makes sense.

358

And, and I think that

programming starts very early.

359

do I think that there's lots

of things that come into this?

360

Yes, I think there's a combination

of you have to be genetically primed

361

and set up for it, in the same way

that like, there's some people who

362

smoke and never get lung cancer.

363

And then there's some people who smoke

like five cigarettes in their whole life

364

and then they end up with lung cancer.

365

I think some of us are more genetically.

366

primed and then certain behaviors,

it's like just enough buttons get hit.

367

so I think that we are genetically

primed to have anxiety.

368

And I think we're genetically primed

to have a system that doesn't accept

369

nutrients the way it needs to.

370

And those two things

together equal Dysautonomia.

371

And Dysautonomia is Chaos!

372

Lacey: autonomic system,

which it's so funny.

373

Because, and I like, not ha ha funny,

but it is really interesting that we're

374

talking about this and it reminds me of

a time mom and dad were taking Joe and

375

I to the airport or we were taking them

some, we were going to the airport and

376

we were sitting there and we started

recounting our passing out stories.

377

So I had, I have several, mom said

one, dad said one and Joe's in the

378

back and at one point he just said,

You guys know that's not normal, right?

379

And so to me, I think that points to Oh,

that predisposition was on both sides here

380

and that's how we got to where we are.

381

Becky: Yep.

382

and I think that, like, when we look

at, geographically where parents

383

are from and where those families

came from, there's probably some,

384

genetics that play into place.

385

But I also think that there are some

learned behaviors that exist as part of

386

culture that then become a part of that.

387

So it's not a very simple,

just one, little fix.

388

It is like a system failure, if that makes

sense, that creates the system failure.

389

Going to reference the Allie conversation

when I'm like, gee, how many times in one.

390

like our, can we say, but

we don't talk about that.

391

Yeah.

392

So we don't talk about that.

393

we have feelings, but we don't talk

about those, bad things happen.

394

We don't talk about it.

395

once you get to the point where you

are shoving enough under the rug.

396

either the rug isn't gonna cover it

all, or, there's gonna be an issue.

397

You're gonna start tripping over it.

398

And what does that look like but chaos?

399

Lacey (2): Yeah, I, I,

400

it's funny that you

mentioned the Al episodes.

401

Becky and I are recording this on

the day that the Bradley, we have

402

a die young episode is released.

403

And, the amount of anxiety that

I have had today is Astronomical,

404

like my stomach has hurt all day.

405

Usually it doesn't get to my stomach.

406

I usually have a tight, it's not even

a tightness that I just have this

407

fullness in my chest that it wasn't

until like last two months ago that

408

my therapist was like, that's anxiety.

409

And I was like, oh,

that's not just normal.

410

but now I recognize

when it happens and it.

411

Becky: I have an experiment

I want you and Joe to do.

412

But go ahead.

413

Lacey: Okay, hold that thought.

414

and it's because of that system,

like you were talking about,

415

I'm not talking about things.

416

I'm like, oh my gosh, people in our

family are going to be so mad at me.

417

They're going to think that I'm

talking bad about them, that I'm

418

like sharing these family secrets and

airing our dirty laundry and all that.

419

And the more that I think about it, the

more that I'm like, literally nothing

420

that we said is not Easily public

record in a lot of ways, but I'm still

421

like, even still now, it's one o'clock

that posted this morning at six 30.

422

I'm still working through it.

423

Becky: You're like, now

what the shoe's gonna drop.

424

Now.

425

I wonder if so and so's

426

Lacey: Yeah.

427

I like, I keep checking.

428

Yes.

429

I,

430

Becky: It's okay, Lace.

431

Woosh

432

Woosh

433

Lacey: I am curious.

434

I have learned that my anxiety

is, sneaky that I got so good at.

435

Yes.

436

compartmentalizing it that I

stopped recognizing when It happens.

437

and that, that can't, there are times in

my life where that became more difficult

438

to do, like postpartum when I returned

to work, that was a really hard time for

439

me because I couldn't do my methodical,

compartmentalizing like I did previously.

440

and those kinds of things.

441

Becky: You had to create a

442

new compartment.

443

Lacey: yes., But still now I'm

still finding places where I'm like,

444

Oh, that was me compartmentalizing

my anxiety, wasn't it?

445

I could be okay with not being the,

one who does sports in our family.

446

Like I can put that in a nice little box

and set it to the side because now I'm the

447

person who is good at school and I, am.

448

Student Senate president

and I'm all these things.

449

And so this box that I have

cancels out that box, but that box.

450

still has anxiety.

451

But this box has its own anxiety.

452

So even though I would like, put things

to the side, I would never deal with them.

453

So then that anxiety is still there.

454

Oh, I am considered overweight,

but don't worry, I'm pretty

455

and I'm fun and I'm nice.

456

So people like me.

457

but I still have that underlying thing.

458

I did such a good job at packaging

up the bad and being like, see,

459

I know that it's bad and I use

that as a way to trick myself into

460

thinking I wasn't anxious about it.

461

Becky: it was, see, I

have control over this.

462

It was like, see, this is in check.

463

This is in check.

464

Because if I keep this much in this box

and this much in this box, and as long as

465

the boxes don't mix, it'll never build up.

466

But you could only have so many

467

Lacey: Yeah.

468

For sure.

469

Becky: So I think when I look back

at, and I go back, you'd be like, yep,

470

that's how I dealt with anxiety then.

471

And that's how I dealt with anxiety then.

472

There was an entire, middle school where

I tell people I was hollow on wheels.

473

And that I'm lucky my parents don't hate

me forever , my whole way of managing

474

anxiety at that point in time was just

to do whatever I wanted in that moment.

475

if I just said yes instead of no.

476

then I would, I'd be okay.

477

there would be no anxiety.

478

There would be no second guessing.

479

There would be no debate.

480

If that was a good choice or bad choice,

there would be no debate in the moment.

481

So be like, just say yes, just go with it.

482

And I said yes to a lot of things

that I look back and I'm like, Oh my

483

God, you are so lucky to be alive.

484

Clearly that's not working for me

because I got in trouble all the time.

485

And then I was starting to get

anxious about being in trouble.

486

And then it got to the point

where I was like, I don't

487

care, fine, I'll be in trouble.

488

But it was going to

start to impact school.

489

And then I was like, no.

490

And that is probably some of

that programming early on was

491

that at school I was good kid.

492

I was never late.

493

Never got in trouble, never

confronted anybody, it was turned

494

in on time, if I felt like I was

gonna die, it was still gonna happen,

495

can just go back and look at it,

there's times where I just tried

496

to overload myself, if I was busy

enough, it wasn't gonna catch me.

497

I think there was a time also in

my early twenties where it was

498

instead of feeling my anxiety,

I went to bars with my friends.

499

and it was just like, we're

just splitting up steam.

500

We're just being 20 somethings.

501

We're just dah, dah, dah, dah.

502

But really what it was is that I

just didn't want to have the anxiety.

503

about really, cause I had a

very high anxiety job then,

504

and I couldn't have that.

505

So it's just like this idea that so many

times in my life I can see where I tried

506

really hard to manage the anxiety and it

was to do something or find one way of

507

coping and doing that like as hard and as

fast and as like 100 percent as I could.

508

Lacey (2): I think you and I, again,

are different but ended up in the

509

same place where a lot of yours was

bringing things in to you, right?

510

I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do

this, I'm gonna do this, and I

511

feel like mine was keeping things

in and not letting them out.

512

Becky: I felt very much growing

up nobody said this to me directly.

513

I'm not blaming anybody.

514

Nobody's like at fault,

but I felt very much

515

Lacey: Mom, we love you and you did great.

516

Dad, we love you.

517

Becky: but

518

Lacey: This is not a

reflection of your parenting.

519

Becky: and it wasn't even,

it just came from Rob.

520

This came from Amy.

521

This came like Society it was like your

feelings are too big that is too much.

522

You need to tuck that away You need

to shut that down No, like we are

523

not gonna tolerate all of that.

524

You need to just be smaller

525

Lacey: Oh,

526

Becky: And I remember feeling that way

very early trying to think of Oh, I'm

527

trying to remember something happened.

528

I can't even tell you what happened,

but I think back and I remember

529

them, everybody looking at me like,

no, you cannot be upset by this.

530

Oh my God.

531

You know what it was?

532

It was the mouse that got in the house.

533

When we came back, you surely you heard

the story of the mouse that got loose,

534

or somehow a mouse got into the house.

535

We had gone to Cincinnati at the time.

536

I think we lived in West Virginia.

537

We had gone to Cincinnati to

visit grandma for something.

538

We had come back.

539

Dad did not come with us,

but, there was this mouse.

540

And I remember thinking.

541

burn the house down.

542

there's no surely we cannot live here now.

543

that is a terrible idea.

544

And it was just, they all looked at me

like, no, we're just gonna catch it.

545

And I'm like, that sounds

like a terrible idea.

546

who are we to catch this mouse?

547

And, and I don't, it is one of

those things where I'm like,

548

this could have been a movie.

549

where we were, like, all in one room.

550

We were gonna go to bed and I think

mom went to get in the bed and I was

551

supposed to be sleeping on the floor

next to her and then the mouse like ran

552

right across something and like chaos.

553

there was screaming.

554

People are like jumping onto furniture.

555

and long story short, we end

up catching the mouse and.

556

there's discussion about what to do it.

557

And I'm like, but we

can't kill this thing.

558

And it was one of those things where

everybody's silent and then they

559

look at me and they're like, what, do

you want to take it to a pet store?

560

What do you think we're going to do?

561

It's 10, 11 o'clock at night.

562

And I'm like, but you can't kill something

just because it's gotten in our way.

563

we can't do that.

564

And it was like, how can you

have compassion for this mouse?

565

And I'm like, but it's a

being, we can't kill it.

566

And it's just like this,

you need to shut that down.

567

This is too much.

568

you cannot care about that.

569

and I just remember feeling that

Ooh, you gotta make that smaller.

570

Lacey: Yeah, I also, had too big

of feelings, to the point where

571

songs are written about my feelings.

572

Becky: God, the limerick.

573

See, and this is where you're

574

like, this messaging came

from multiple directions.

575

Lacey: yeah.

576

which, I can still

recite to this day, the,

577

Becky: could probably as

578

Lacey: also, really plays on,

on my body issues as well.

579

And I, again, not anybody's

fault, but, the limerick was,

580

hello, my name is Lacy Swiner.

581

I am the biggest little whiner.

582

If you touch me a little bit, I will

cry and something and Throw a great

583

fit, If you touch me a little more,

I will cry and scream just as before.

584

Becky: When I was mad and frustrated,

it was like, oh, you need to be hugged.

585

clearly what you want

right now is to be hugged.

586

And I, in that moment, and

the reason why, it was clearly

587

I did not want to be hugged.

588

And it's but that's the

messaging and I don't

589

blame

590

Lacey: and

591

Becky: I really think

592

we all got it

593

Lacey: it's, yeah, absolutely.

594

I do think that's part of the reason

why teenage boys will always be my

595

least favorite demographic of people.

596

I know that they're listening

to this podcast and are really

597

disappointed that they're, not my

key demo, but I really think it

598

started there.

599

For me, it was like, just

take it and internalize it.

600

Don't do anything.

601

and that kind of stuff.

602

And so I just, I, not that I push back

on your premise, that being the chaos

603

friend, isn't from you, like within you.

604

I Just I look at a lot of these

things and I'm like, I don't, think

605

I, I think I abstained from choices

and that's got me where I am.

606

And that by abstaining from choices

and by not saying things and being

607

quiet and making myself smaller and

trying to fit somebody else's mode

608

all the time and be the perfect

version that somebody else wanted.

609

Nobody else demanded, by the way, if

I got like an A minus, I was upset at

610

myself, mom and dad, never even looked

at my report card at a certain point,

611

because they were like, yeah, you're fine.

612

And so I just, the extent to

which it got to was very much my

613

internal doing and that by not

taking action, by not doing a lot.

614

of things.

615

that's how it fasted in me.

616

To become the chaos friend and

to have a lot of health problems

617

because your year is 2017 Minus 2022.

618

I think that my Anxiety and whatnot

really wore me down to the point where

619

I got a stupid Like cold type thing

and my body could never truly come

620

back from that and that's what stems

my chronic fatigue syndrome And then

621

all those other underlying things that

was already there of like dysautonomia

622

makes it more fun and exciting.

623

So that's why when anybody

is all what's wrong with you?

624

And I'm just like, it's not important.

625

I'm tired.

626

That's all you need to know.

627

I'm tired.

628

I'm doing my best.

629

I'm not predictable.

630

I'm sorry.

631

I know I'm constantly letting you down.

632

Trust me.

633

I've already thought of that too.

634

Becky: Whatever amount of mad you

think you are about this situation, I

635

am mad for you and I am mad at me and

dealing with my body doing what it's

636

doing while being mad at me for you.

637

You're welcome, I'm sorry.

638

Lacey: Yeah.

639

and I swear to God, if you tell me

to just stop, I will want to punch

640

you, because I can't just stop.

641

If I could just stop, I would.

642

But, I have no problem telling you the

things that you did to trigger it, though.

643

But I'll be quiet and not say them.

644

Becky: But, this stuff becomes

so ingrained, it's just too easy.

645

I moved furniture today.

646

Did I, should I have

moved furniture today?

647

Nope.

648

Probably shouldn't have.

649

But part of me is but what, am I

just going to stand there and stare

650

at it and watch it move itself?

651

I didn't move it alone.

652

these are the things where I'm like,

at some point in time where I have

653

to make a decision and I'm making the

best decision I can with what I have.

654

Did that decision lead to something

that went awry probably, I'm probably

655

going to be in physical, Oh man.

656

So a great chaos story.

657

in the middle of all of my existing chaos.

658

So what, like a month ago, three

weeks ago, I don't even know

659

how many weeks ago this was.

660

So I started having these kind of

like abdominal pains, which I'm

661

starting to wonder if it is either

bowel endometriosis or right.

662

The list of what this

could be gets extensive.

663

Could I have passed some

kind of, kidney stone?

664

Who knows?

665

Who knows?

666

But, the next day.

667

I go down the steps, and I am just

trying to do my morning routine, and

668

I'm making my coffee, feeling like a

normal human, all things considered,

669

and I go to get my dogs their dog food.

670

And it's in my garage, we have

this off to the side, blah

671

blah blah, it's in a container.

672

I take one step down the steps, and

It is like I'm standing on marbles

673

and my feet are now above me.

674

And I, it had that moment where

I'm like, Oh, this is not good.

675

then of course I land on the

steps and I have that moment

676

of that's first, Oh, crap.

677

And then it's this hurts.

678

And then it's breathe.

679

You're alive, right?

680

And then you have to do like the body

scan of like, how bad is the bad, right?

681

And immediately, and

this is so disturbing.

682

I am going, that hurts, but I've

been more hurt than that, which,

683

oh, when you go to the hospital.

684

They say on a scale of one to

10, how much does this hurt?

685

And they're like, if 10 is the

worst pain you've ever felt.

686

And I'm like, I didn't pass out.

687

I'm not kidding.

688

Like everybody's face changes.

689

that's the bar.

690

The bar is, did I pass out?

691

That's a 10.

692

Okay, so it's not a 10.

693

And they're like.

694

But you can stand the pain, and

I'm like, I can stand the pain,

695

but I also Dislocated my kneecap

and popped it right back in and

696

kept walking like it was normal.

697

Does this hurt worse than that?

698

Yeah, it does and then they

like their face changes, right?

699

They're looking at you like

700

Lacey: Yeah,

701

Becky: and then you're

like they're they're

702

thinking what psych person they have

to bring in this room but I People

703

are like, why, you were already

in a state of less than normal.

704

And I was like, yeah, but that's standard.

705

Like my every single day is less

706

Lacey: that's my new normal.

707

Becky: So I have to keep functioning

at that state all life stops.

708

Because I have three humans

and two dogs that depend on me.

709

So going down the steps and making my

coffee and feeding my dogs is literally

710

the bare minimum of what my day includes.

711

What I didn't anticipate is that the night

before, one of my kids, because we have

712

ADHD just running rampant around here.

713

Though, I really, I'm gonna say

it, I say it all the time, but I

714

swear ADHD people are my favorite.

715

But I think it's because they

have a freeness that I'm like, I

716

wish I could be like that, right?

717

I'm like, sure, why not?

718

And I'm like, you don't think?

719

For 45 minutes?

720

seven different ways that could go wrong!

721

And they're like, Nope!

722

I love the ADHD.

723

I do.

724

But.

725

There is a tax that comes with it.

726

. That day the text that came with it was

that when Xander spilled the dog food on

727

the steps He had forgotten by the time he

fed the dogs because that was the task He

728

was trying to complete that he had spilled

it and now there's the steps are covered

729

with dog food Which that day it happened

to also be Extraordinarily cold which

730

mean is now rock hard on a set of steps

that I am walking on Without thinking

731

and of course it's brown on brown steps.

732

all of this it just there.

733

There is no way I could

have not done that,

734

but that led to me being in bed resting

for several days and then there's this

735

whole, like, when you go to the hospital,

nothing ever good comes out of that.

736

So don't go to the hospital.

737

And then everybody's but why

didn't you go to the hospital?

738

And I'm like, cause if

I go to the hospital.

739

They do every freaking test under the

sun because they want to diagnose all

740

the things and They end up giving me a

bag of IV fluids and sending me on my way

741

Lacey: I am not actively

dying so nobody cares.

742

Becky: Yeah.

743

I went to the hospital and They were

like, there's inflammation here and

744

that could be arthritis, or from

this angle, we can't tell, but there

745

could be a fracture in the hip.

746

There could be a fracture

in the, in the spine.

747

But everything is intact, which means

like there's no immediate surgery needed,

748

there's no bones sticking out, right?

749

Which is what the emergency room is for.

750

They gave me a bag of IV fluids

and were like, take it easy.

751

I was like, clearly if I knew what take it

easy meant, I wouldn't be here, but okay.

752

And that's when Jason looked at me and

said, For the next three days, don't do

753

anything without asking me first, just

because I think you need help listening

754

to your body before you do something.

755

And I just laughed at him.

756

And he was like, you have a

service dog that does this for you.

757

And I was like, I do.

758

And I was like, poor Pele.

759

Poor Pele probably has anxiety

every time I leave the house.

760

He's Dammit, what she's up to now?

761

it's that, she goes again.

762

Lacey: Oh,

763

Becky: the chaos friend.

764

Lacey: And again, none of your

choices could have changed.

765

Anytime I have a birth, when I

go into labor and have a baby,

766

something really chaotic happens.

767

It's not my fault.

768

like I, I get hemorrhage, after a C

section and have to stay longer and

769

constantly almost pass out because I'm on

the verge of needing a blood transfusion.

770

Or they can do what's called a wet tap,

which is where they go too far through

771

your spinal cord and it creates a hole.

772

And then they have to go back

in a week later and pass your

773

blood over your shoulder.

774

To fill that hole, it's

called a blood patch.

775

There is no way I could have made

either one of those things happen.

776

Becky: I've had two blood patches.

777

Lacey: But that is,

Yeah, that is my reality.

778

and I just, yes, I have

decided to get an epidural, but

779

Becky: Yeah,

780

Lacey: does, so do millions

of other women, but only 1

781

percent of them get what I get.

782

Yeah.

783

Becky: to get here?

784

Yes.

785

I, do I wish it went this way?

786

No.

787

But if you were to ask me,

which one of those would you

788

go back and choose not to do?

789

Man, that would be hard.

790

Because it would be, did you

choose not to bet on yourself and

791

start your own private practice?

792

Would you have chosen not to do that?

793

And it's, I absolutely would

have chosen to do that.

794

That was one of the best

decisions I've made.

795

And a bunch of the people who were like,

ooh, I don't know, are now people who

796

also have their own private practice.

797

Because they realized that was

the best decision for them.

798

It has been the thing that has been

able to sustain me, even through this.

799

All of this medical stuff, like, it has

been the thing that has been able to, for

800

me to be the mother I am to the children

who need me to be this kind of mother.

801

could I do that again?

802

would I, what, not have Skye, or Husky?

803

no, I would definitely,

would, I wouldn't trade her.

804

would I have not done Zumba?

805

No, that was like some of the

most fun I've ever had in my life.

806

and I met some really amazing humans.

807

and I learned how to take care of

my body in a whole different way.

808

and I, would I give up

any of those things?

809

no, I don't think I would have.

810

I don't think I would have told

one of my kids that they weren't

811

allowed to play soccer, or that

they couldn't play basketball, or,

812

that we wouldn't try something.

813

And that's just because that's,

I think if you can, why not?

814

Lacey: Know, it's funny, I was not

the chaos friend until I got sick.

815

I was the chaos friend when I

was pregnant, but I'm going to

816

count that as when I was sick.

817

and and it's, I think it's because I

kept it all in and you can't keep it in

818

when you're pregnant because sometimes

you're literally puking every day.

819

and everybody knows you're pregnant,

so everybody wants to talk about it.

820

And then the same thing when I got sick,

like it became the change in my reality

821

and there's no way for me to ignore it.

822

And so again, it's just

really interesting for me.

823

I couldn't even tell you what I

would have released or not held

824

on to or anything like that.

825

Cause I always have just tried to do

what I thought I was supposed to do.

826

Becky: You do the best you

can with what you have.

827

if I keep living that way, and I

keep making choices based off of

828

the best information that I have,

then it doesn't matter what happens.

829

that I can look back and I'll be like,

I really legit made the best decision I

830

could with the information that I had.

831

And this is where I landed.

832

And I will figure it out from here.

833

Lacey: So here's a question for you.

834

What's the best way for someone to be your

friend since you are the chaos friend?

835

what can people do for you?

836

Becky: Just love me.

837

Just love me for me and let me be me.

838

And when I do something

stupid and then I look at

839

them and say, that was dumb.

840

They are like, mmmmm.

841

I don't like being told what to do.

842

I'm so thankful that I figured

that one out eventually.

843

just don't tell what to do.

844

If you want to ask me, do

you think you should do that?

845

That's fine.

846

But if you tell me not to do

that, I am going to think of

847

every single reason that I should.

848

And that's going to become the focus.

849

And that's because I, that's one of the

ways that I manage my anxiety is that

850

I have to stay in my own driver's seat.

851

Nobody else is going to

be in my driver's seat

852

because if I make a decision

853

Lacey: That's funny.

854

Becky: Consequences of my own choices,

but I do not handle it if I have to

855

have the consequences of somebody else's

choices, it does not go well for me

856

Lacey: I don't know if it's my

manifester nature or whatnot, but

857

I have a tendency to be like, don't

tell me what to do and people don't.

858

The minute they do, I

do the, don't tell me

859

what to do.

860

And then I don't entertain them anymore.

861

I don't know how that became just a

part of me, but I'm thankful for it.

862

But I have started saying to my

children, don't tell me what to do.

863

If you have a request, You can ask,

but please do not tell me what to do.

864

Becky: You are not the boss of

me Yeah, I say things like you

865

get to make those choices for you

I'm gonna make choices for me.

866

Are they always going to be the best ones?

867

No,

868

Lacey: thank you for joining me, Becky,

and sharing your chaos friend wisdom.

869

Becky: I just, this is me.

870

I am what I am.

871

I'm sorry.

872

And this is where, you know what,

Lace, you know what I would say?

873

If I'm too much for you, that's fine.

874

That's what I would say to somebody.

875

I get it.

876

If I'm too much for you, that's fine.

877

part of me wants to go find less,

878

that's fine,

879

but I, there, there are going to be

people that I am too much for, and

880

those people do not belong in my

circle because I will break them.

881

And I don't want to break anybody.

882

Lacey: We're already basically

slowly breaking down our

883

mother because of our chaos.

884

We don't need

885

anybody else.

886

Becky: my poor mother.

887

Trying real hard not to break my kids.

888

Poor Pele is probably like dogs are

not supposed to be able to do this.

889

The things he has

learned to be able to do.

890

yeah.

891

Lacey: Oh, thanks, Becky.

892

Becky: Oh, any time.

893

Talking is one of my

favorite things to do.