What does it really mean to be financially independent—and how much control are women giving up without even realizing it?

Financial expert, attorney, former banking executive and Never Date a Broke Dude author Pattie Ehsaei joins me for a sharp, funny and unapologetic conversation about money, marriage, power and the financial decisions that can shape a woman’s future.

We get into the difference between looking wealthy and actually building wealth, why money can quietly become leverage inside a relationship, the complicated reality of prenups, financial dependence, retirement, and why even smart, successful women can have major blind spots when it comes to their own finances.

And because Pattie never misses a good pop-culture money lesson, we also break down what the very public relationship splits of Dorit Kemsley and PK Kemsley, Lisa and Lenny Hochstein, and Kyle Richards and Mauricio Umansky reveal about money, assets, financial independence, and what can happen when a marriage ends.

We also talk about the cultural double standard around women wanting financially successful partners, whether financial equality is possible when one person earns significantly more, and why reaching midlife can be the moment you finally ask yourself:

Where is my money—and how much control do I actually have over it?

In this episode:

• The difference between appearing rich and actually having wealth
• Why financial independence is about more than income
• Money, power and control inside marriage
• The financial risks of relying entirely on a partner
• Prenups, ownership and protecting yourself
• Why successful women are still judged for caring about a partner’s finances
• The biggest money mistakes women make in midlife
• Whether it’s ever too late to start building wealth
• What financial freedom can look like after 40 and 50
• Why having options may be the ultimate form of wealth

Pattie is also the author of Never Date a Broke Dude: The Financial Freedom Playbook and is known online as the Duchess of Decorum.

Follow Pattie:

Instagram: @duchessofdecorum

Website: PattieEhsaei.com

If you loved this conversation, follow The Iconic Midlife wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe on YouTube, and follow @theiconicmidlife and @redcarpetroxy on social media.

And come back Thursday for Pattie’s game episode:

Rich Move or Broke Move?

I’m giving her financial dilemmas where the answer is definitely not as obvious as it sounds.

The Iconic Midlife

Hosted by Roxy Manning

New episodes weekly.

Do you think that we are measuring wealth the wrong way in our culture?

Absolutely.

Do you know that 63% of all millionaires have never made over $100,000 a year?

They've gotten there because they invested and they watched what they spent.

They weren't buying Ferraris, they weren't buying Lamborghinis.

When I see someone pull up in a Lamborghini or Ferrari, I automatically know they don't have any money.

I have a client who's worth $3 billion.

He pulls up in a Honda Civic.

He, he's wearing flip flops, shorts and a T shirt.

You would never know.

Broke has very little to do with what's in your pocket or your bank account.

Okay.

Broke is a mentality.

It is someone that doesn't meet your ambition, drive, or work ethic.

I've known men that have more money than God and have been broke.

Looking wealthy is different than building.

Oh my goodness, where did we go wrong in that?

Like, it's almost more important to look wealthy.

Yes.

Than to actually have it.

Yes.

Let me tell you, the first tip is that you are better with money than your husband, as most middle aged women do not have the confidence to start investing.

But women have been proven to be better investors.

What if the person you're dating has plenty of money but is still completely broke?

And what if some of the things you've been taught to associate with wealth, designer bags, beautiful houses, expensive vacations.

Actually tell us almost nothing about whether someone is financially secure?

My guest today has built a career saying that they things about money that most people are too polite to say.

Patty ASAI is a financial expert, attorney, former banking executive, and author of the brilliantly titled Never Date a Broke the Financial Freedom Playbook.

Known as the Duchess of decorum on social media, she's become a powerful voice on money, ambition, relationships, and financial independence.

The delivery that's smart, funny, and unapologetically direct.

Today we're talking about the difference between looking rich and being rich.

Whether money inevitably creates power in relationships.

Why successful women are still judged for wanting successful partners.

The seductive new fantasy of financial dependence.

And what happens when you reach midlife and suddenly ask, wait, where's mine?

Patti asai, welcome to the iconic midlife.

Welcome to the iconic midlife.

Patty, it's so good to see you today.

I'm so happy to be here.

Oh, I'm just so thrilled to be thrilled, you know, you could come in.

I'm so glad we're meeting each other face to face.

I know because we've known each Other for a little while.

And, you know, I'm always keeping up with you, so you're doing so many great things.

Congratulations on a hundred thousand followers on Instagram.

So much.

Thank you.

What a great accomplishment.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

I know you were celebrating.

That looked really fun.

What did you do?

Let's do it.

Yeah.

You know, I. I've had a million followers on TikTok for.

For years.

But, you know, the audience on Instagram is just a little different, you know?

So when I finally broke through where my content started to break through on Instagram, was super excited.

Yeah.

So excited.

Do you find that you have to put, like, different content up in each.

Place, 100 different content.

And, you know, most people don't know this about TikTok.

Unless you are engaging on the app a lot, they won't show your videos.

So, yeah, your video could be the best video, but if you're not engaging on the app, they don't show your videos to anybody.

Yeah.

Instagram's not like that.

Wow.

That's a fact.

Yeah, that's a fun fact.

I mean, I did.

Because it's so hard to often, like, split your time between all of these.

It is channels when you're also working.

I have a day job.

I'm a creator.

Like.

Yeah, it's impossible.

Yes.

And what a crazy day job.

I mean, finance.

You're an attorney.

You've got, like, many things going.

So how do you keep it all straight?

Yeah, it's really hard, especially now, because I'm building a whole new platform.

It's called get your 50.

And what it is, it's helping married women protect themselves financially in their marriage.

And it.

It doesn't mean take half of what he has.

Okay.

It just means that if something were to happen to him tomorrow, you don't want to end up on the street.

So I'm developing this and, you know, like, building out a whole platform and brand is so time consuming.

So I have my finance job during the day, and then I have to create content and then after, I'm doing a podcast, so I have to build that out.

So it's really, really hard, especially now that we're older.

You know, like when I was in my 20s, like this.

Right.

Didn't matter.

I'm gonna be 55 next week.

And happy early birthday.

Thank you.

Thank you.

But, yeah, you feel it.

You feel it in midlife.

You do, you know, and it felt like also I felt like in my 20s, I felt like tiny time was just like, like abundant.

Like, it's always there, you know, like, there's always more time.

Always more time.

Now I feel like time is becoming more limited.

It's much more valuable than it ever was before.

Do you feel that too?

Absolutely, yes.

I. I feel like, you know, time is just.

It is something that is so valuable because I pay attention to it.

You know, when you're in your 20s, you're just like, all over the place.

But now I'm like, okay, I have this amount of time and I wanna spend it with people I love, with things that I love doing and things that make me happy.

Yes, absolutely.

And, you know, I think I know somebody who you don't wanna spend it with.

Broke dudes.

Yes, broke dudes.

Yes, broke dudes.

Which is so amazing because if anybody follows Patty on social media, you know what I am talking about.

Yeah.

I think it's so great.

Your book, you know, never date a broke dude.

I mean, talk about putting it out there and just, you know, like, the way you explain it to makes so much sense.

But for those who might not know your definition of broke.

Yeah.

Can you tell everybody that's listening and watching what broke means to you?

Yes.

Broke has very little to do with what's in your pocket or your bank account.

Okay.

Broke is a mentality.

So when I say never date a broke dude, and it's not necessarily even a man, but it is someone that doesn't meet your ambition, drive, or work ethic.

That's what broke means.

So you don't want to be with someone that has a broke mentality?

Because I've known men that have more money than God and have been broke.

Broke mentality meaning being cheap.

Right.

Or spending, spending, spending and not having any money left at the end of the month and waiting for their next paycheck.

So it's really about your mindset.

So do you think that we are measuring wealth the wrong way in our culture, like in the society and the world?

Absolutely, I think.

Yeah.

And I think that we need to really talk about the mentality of a wealth person, wealthy person, versus a person who makes a lot of money.

Because do you know that I think it's.

63% Of all millionaires have never made over $100,000 a year.

Yes.

Really?

Yes.

They've gotten there because they invested and they watch what they spent.

They weren't buying Ferraris, they weren't buying Lamborghinis.

So those are the true wealthy people.

Those are the people that aren't broken.

The people that.

I'm telling you, my finance job When I see someone pull up in a Lamborghini or Ferrari, I automatically know they don't have any money.

Automatically, yes.

Yes.

The guy that I have a client who's worth $3 billion with a B, he pulls up in a Honda Civic.

He's wearing flip flops, shorts, and a T shirt.

You would never know.

You would.

How did he make his money?

Well, he started.

He started investing, and then he started buying investment properties one after the other, and then he started buying commercial real estate, and instead of blow his money on, you know, the cars or the watches, he reinvested it in properties, and now he's worth $3 billion.

Wait, that's amazing.

So people, are they leveraging what they have to be able to continue, like, scale up like that?

They do, they do.

But you also need to have down payment money.

Right.

So.

And that's where he had his down payment money instead of.

He had plenty of money.

He could have blown it on something else, but he just kept all of it so he could keep having down payments for the next property and for the next property.

Yeah.

So interesting.

It's like everybody has their own path to wealth, you know, once they get there.

Right.

I love hearing all these stories.

What do you think it changed for us?

Because maybe, perhaps like before things became, you know, all over social media and, you know, talk.

The talk about the looking wealthy, you know, looking wealthy is different than building.

Oh, my goodness.

Yes.

So where did we go wrong in that?

Like, why is it that, you know, it's.

It's almost more important to look wealthy to.

To actually have it?

Yes.

Let me tell you, on social media, the people that look wealthy are typically the brokers people.

Let's look at the housewives, for example.

You know, I do a lot of housewives content.

Please bring it.

Yes.

The housewives, for example, they all act like they're so wealthy and they don't have a pot to piss in.

And the second that they lose a job or the second that they miss a paycheck, that's it.

They have to file bankruptcy.

And it's happened so many times.

I mean, Kim Zolciak, Nene Leakes.

So many of these housewives.

Dorit recently, right?

Yeah.

Dorit crazy.

Like, she makes a million dollars a year and she can't pay her mortgage.

Yeah.

How does.

How do you.

What do you think went wrong there?

I think what went wrong is Dorit is delusional and that she doesn't understand that you can't rely on somebody else to pay your mortgage because she Kept saying, PK said that he is going to pay it.

Well, if PK's not paying it and the house is in your name, the mortgage is in your name.

That's your credit on the line.

You are responsible.

If you didn't intend on paying that you should have never ever put it in your name.

Have it put in his name.

They didn't want to do that because I think he had like credit problems or something like that.

But still.

And she knew that the house was in foreclosure.

She kept saying that.

I didn't know.

I didn't know if the house is in your name.

Trust me.

They hunt you down.

They tell you your house is not, you're not making payments.

We're foreclosing on your home.

So she knew and she didn't care.

There.

Yeah.

That, that to me is kind of crazy because I would think that that would give me so much anxiety.

Right.

Like heart palpitations, you know, like how do you still go on and shop and do everything else?

Just, just a few weeks ago she was on a three week European vacation.

Yeah.

That's so irresponsible.

That is so irresponsible.

And that's why she's.

She's going to end up on the street, I'm telling you, eventually.

Do you think so?

Yes.

She will not be able to sustain this because her mentality is a broke person's mental mentality.

She's.

Yeah.

She spends everything she makes and everything.

If you've seen her, it's like everything has a label on it.

Come on.

Like, you know, I'm sure you have friends that are very wealthy and I have friends that are very wealthy.

I have friends that are billionaires and they never wear a label.

They never talk about the stuff that they have.

You know, they never talk about my private jet or my Birkin, whatever.

And Dorit's all about the labels.

And that's a broke person's mentality.

And it's tacky.

Yeah, it's.

It's so tacky.

When you think, think too with children involved that you would want to look out for what?

Right.

You know, and that's what I'm saying.

She has two kids.

Like their house, their.

The roof over their head is so important when it comes to your children.

That should be your first priority.

Right.

Not going on three week trips to Europe.

Right.

You know, you have to start paying off your house.

And she just refused.

So crazy.

Yeah.

Well, do you think it would have made a difference?

I don't, I don't Know who name is on the deed of the house, but it is just hers.

Would it have made a difference if he was also on the deed, do you think?

As far as.

Well, no, because the mortgage indeed are different.

So whoever's on the mortgage, who signed for the mortgage, that is the person that's responsible for the.

She's the only one on the mortgage, too?

Yes.

Oh, I thought it was just.

No, no, no.

She heard the house is in her name, in the deed and the mortgage.

Both are just in her.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

He doesn't have any responsibility to pay.

The only reason he's paying that right now is so his kids don't end up on the street.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

Oh, wow.

And he.

And he asked her to move to a smaller home with the kids, and she refused.

He said, I'll pay for it.

Move to a smaller home.

I'll pay for it.

And she refused to do it and she refuses to pay for the house.

It's like, if that is not delusional and entitled, I don't know what is.

While still spending money elsewhere.

Yes.

Right.

I mean, it's just.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

So let's reverse it.

Let's say.

Let's say it's a husband and wife.

Maybe he's the one that's on the mortgage and the deed of the house and, you know, maintains control over that.

But the wife isn't.

Should.

Let's say she's 10, 15, 20 years into the marriage with kids.

Whatever, you know, is happening, should she be worried about that?

Oh, absolutely.

That's something that so many women get screwed and they don't understand is that they're never on the deeds to the house.

And, and a lot of them contribute actually financially to the mortgage.

Even if they're not on their mortgage, they contribute financially to the mortgage.

Right.

And then something happens to him and they don't get the house.

They literally get kicked out.

So it's so important to make sure that you are on the deed of your own home.

That's really important.

And you have to be joint tenants in common with Right.

Of survivorship.

Most people don't know that.

They're like, okay, well, I'm on the deed.

Well, what does it say on the deed?

If you don't have right to survivorship, that means that the house isn't necessarily going to go to you, and that's going to go through probate.

And when it goes through probate, you are left to a judge that you don't know.

That has unhealed issues.

Who's going to decide what you get?

And you never want that to happen.

Never want that.

You need to lock that shit down before something happens, right?

Absolutely.

Everything, Roxy.

Everything.

I can't tell you how many people, for example, they work in their husband's business for years.

Like Alicia from Housewives of Rhode island, she.

Her.

Billy's business, she put on tv, Right.

She's using her platform to build it.

It was her idea to do Pizza Mama.

It was all her idea.

And she didn't have 1% of ownership interest.

Not one.

Because she had worked there, maybe even did some, you know, financial.

That doesn't matter.

So.

It doesn't matter.

It does not matter.

It doesn't matter how much time you put in.

Doesn't matter how many hours you put in.

What matters is who has ownership interest.

Yeah.

And if she has no ownership interest, she doesn't get a piece of it.

So.

Okay, let's say things go awry in a marriage, right?

Like.

And you just, like, you know, you guys are calling it quits.

You don't have the ownership.

Is there something you can do either before you file or maybe right after you file that can kind of try to help the situation for you?

Yes.

So.

So you ask, first of all, you ask to be put on the ownership of the business.

Right.

And the house and all of that.

Right.

You asked to do that.

If he refuses to do that, then you consult a lawyer.

Then you consult a lawyer.

And you do this before you file.

Right.

You consult a lawyer.

You make sure that you can get stuff in your name before you file for divorce.

Okay.

Like, you need to have that.

Because once you file.

That's it.

Yeah, once you file.

Yeah, it's.

It's like once you file, the assets are protected, meaning that he can't just go blow all the money or things like that.

But before you file, you have to make sure that you protect yourself so you're not fighting it out.

Okay, well, let's say throughout the whole marriage, you know, one person is a breadwinner.

Yep.

Do you think.

And whether that be the man or the woman, you know, whoever that is, do you think it's fair that they have more power and control in the marriage based on that?

It depends on what the other person has given up.

So let's just say the man is the primary breadwinner.

Right.

And the woman is not.

Now, has she given up her earning potential?

Has she given up her job?

Is she taking care of the kids?

Is she taking care of that?

I mean, that's work, right?

So in that sense, it should be 100% equal, but it never is because he who controls the gold makes the rules.

I always say this, and money is power.

Money is just power.

And when you're not making and controlling your own money, you don't have ultimate control over your own destiny because he can pull that money away from you at all times.

He can dangle that carrot in front of you at all times.

Unless you have your own money, you have no options.

That's the problem.

That's the problem.

I know a lot of women especially don't like to approach the topic of money, you know, talking to their husbands and significant others and marriages.

But it is important to do so.

How should somebody take that step?

Like, what do they say?

Yeah, I think a lot of women are nervous to ask their husbands for what they deserve.

I think we women are like that anyway.

You know, what we do is we so quickly give up our financial security because we don't want to make him mad.

We don't want to start a fight.

We don't want him to feel emasculated.

You know, fuck that.

You need to protect yourself in your marriage.

And you don't need to come at it in a contentious way, right?

You simply say, honey, I love you and I trust you, but if something were to happen to you tomorrow, I'm not protected.

So can we make sure that I'm protected?

Meaning my name is on the deed, or I own part of the business, or you have a life insurance policy.

Right.

With me as also as the owner of the life insurance policy.

Because, Roxy, this is what people don't understand.

They think being the beneficiary of the insurance policy is.

You're the beneficiary, right?

No, no, no.

Because being the beneficiary, he can remove you at any given time and the company will not notify you.

Or if he lets the insurance policy lapse, you'll never get notified.

You'll never know.

So you want to actually own the insurance insurance policy on his life and let it be a million, or about 5 million, I would say.

And honestly, on a guy in his 40s, right, an insurance policy like that, 20 year term costs between 50 to 100 bucks.

It's not a lot.

So you sit down and you say, this isn't about you.

I love you.

I trust you.

This is about me feeling protected.

In.

In our marriage, if something were to happen to you, I want us to keep the house.

I want the business.

To be ours.

So let's sit down and let's figure out what I need to be put on, whether it's the deed or whatever.

Do we have an insurance policy?

And I go through this.

I. I have a whole class where I go through everything that women need to know to protect themselves and make sure all of that happens.

When you get the money on someone's life insurance, that money does not go through probate.

That does not go to his creditors.

His creditors can't touch that, and his will cannot override that.

So even if the will says something different, you still get that money.

So even if he were to take you out of the will last minute.

Absolutely.

So you would still get the life insurance.

You would still get the life insurance policy.

Oh, okay.

So that is one thing that the will cannot override.

Absolutely.

Okay, let's talk trust.

Because I know that that is so important too.

Like, I know that that's what we're in the process of doing, is putting our house and the trust and just even to make it just easier for our daughter, you know?

So how important is that?

And just if you could tell people.

How the trust is very important because it dictates what happens to the assets when someone passes away.

And there's so many things you can do in a trust.

For example, I'm giving half my money to my nephew.

Okay.

But in order for him to get the money, he has to have graduated from college.

Right.

Be in a master's program, have a job.

You're like, check all of these boxes first.

So.

And that's really important.

But the mistake that most people make with trust is that they don't understand that just having a trust is not enough.

You have to move assets into the trust.

So they'll be like, okay, well, I have a trust.

But they've never moved their home into the trust.

They've never moved their assets into the trust, their bank accounts.

So it doesn't.

It doesn't mean anything unless the trust holds assets.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So it has to physically already be in there.

You.

Yes.

What you do is you open the trust and then you put assets in the trust.

Okay.

Now, what do you think?

I've also been hearing, and I now I'm blanking on the name of the fund that you can start for your kids where you actually employ them.

And it's like a yearly, like, amount of money that you put in.

Yes, yes, you.

You can.

There's.

There's different ways and different funds for that.

But, yes, you can employ your children as, as a.

But you have to own a company.

Okay.

Okay.

You can llc.

Yeah, you have to have an LLC or an S corp or corporation, whatever.

And if you, if you have that, your, your child can be an employee, but they have to do work.

Right?

They have to work for you.

So your wife or your husband can be an employee and you can write that off as a, as a business expense.

That's really.

And then with that money it just continues, it just continues to grow.

Is that okay throughout.

And is it taxed if they take it out at some point?

It's.

Well, it, it goes in a tax free.

Again, there's a.

Four or five different accounts, so it really depends on which one you choose.

Choose.

But it goes, it can go in if it, this is the way to think about it.

If it goes in tax free, you have to pay taxes when you take it out.

If it goes in after tax money, then you don't have to pay taxes.

And so for all accounts, you should just think about it that way.

It's like if I am paying taxes before I put the money in, then when I take it out, that won't be taxed if I'm not.

But a 401k for example.

It's pre tax money.

Right.

If you want to take it out, you will be taxed on it under a certain age.

Okay.

Okay.

So that's kind of the way to think about it.

Okay, That's a good way to think about it.

Okay, let's go back to the asshole husband.

Yes.

How do you prevent money from becoming a weapon?

You prevent money from becoming a weapon by having your own money.

That's really the only way.

Okay.

And also making sure that you are on the accounts, that you have access to the accounts.

But honestly, that doesn't even mean anything.

And let me explain to you why.

Okay, so I, I had a friend, she was a billionaire, so she thought she was.

Okay.

She was living in Beverly Hills in this mansion.

She had a staff.

She thought they were so rich.

Her husband was a very famous surgeon.

Okay.

She never opened the door.

You know, she just thought they were rich.

So one day her, her housekeeper is sick.

She answers the door, someone says, you've been served.

She's like, what are you talking about I've been served?

She opens it up and she sees that it's, it's default judgments on their home.

Her husband had not made, had not made payments for over a year.

No mortgage payments.

No mortgage payments.

She goes to his office that she normally doesn't go into Right.

She goes into his office, she sees piles of.

Of service.

He hadn't paid the credit card, he hadn't paid the car payments.

He hadn't paid anything.

They were living beyond their means.

And she was on the account.

She just took money whenever she wanted.

But she wasn't paying attention.

She wasn't paying attention to what was happening around her.

Oh, my God.

So now is she financially responsible then, because she's on the account.

She's on the account she signed for him.

And this is what happens is women will just sign whatever their husband puts in front of them without even asking a damn question.

Even Kyle Richards talked.

Talks about how, like, Mauricio would put stuff in front of me, not sign it.

You know, you have to know what the hell you're signing.

Right, Right.

So what ended up happening.

Happening after she found out is the whole thing blew up.

They had to file for bankruptcy.

Their house went into foreclosure.

He could not get a job at a hospital anymore.

Because if you have financial troubles like this, no hospital is gonna.

Is gonna hire you.

They are living in a two bedroom apartment with their two kids in Van Nuys, and he is moonlighting at one of these urgent cares.

You're kidding me.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Yes, because she wasn't paying attention.

You.

I always say you have to inspect what you expect.

Yes.

Okay.

You got to pay attention.

You have to, on a weekly basis, look at the accounts.

How much money do we have in there?

What are they doing?

Is he pulling out a lot of money?

Where's this money going?

One of my friends, she.

She was married to this really rich guy.

I talk about her in the book.

She had.

She was.

Had.

She was going through cancer treatment, so she kind of kept her eyes off the.

Off the money.

And they had so many accounts anyway.

Her husband was giving his mistress $12,000.

A month while she's going through cancer.

Oh, my God.

She had no idea.

And that's money that could have gone to her kids.

Yes.

Or treatment.

Yeah, whatever.

Whatever.

Yeah, she's okay.

She's okay.

Thank goodness she's okay and she survived.

She's amazing.

But.

Yeah.

So this is the way money is used as a weapon.

As a weapon.

Look, going back to Kyle, since we brought that one up, Kyle and Mauricio of the Real Housewives in Beverly Hills, who do you think is gonna.

Are they gonna get.

Is he gonna get screwed in that divorce?

Like, how do you think it's going to work out for the two of them?

Like, do you think because they've been married so long, I don't think they have a prenup, right?

No, they don't have a prenup.

So what's going to happen, do you think, with, like, the firm and.

Okay, so if he's above board, okay, she will get half of everything, but that also includes half of the debt.

Okay, so the agency has a lot of debt.

People.

People think that the agency is just blowing up because they're opening so many locations.

No, they're doing it on leverage.

So the agency has a lot of debt, and with real estate, as far as how it's been, they're not doing that well.

So, yeah, she'll get half.

But half of.

What does that mean?

Because she gets half of the debt and.

And here's where she's at the biggest danger.

And this is the way most women.

Most women don't understand.

They're separated, but not officially, not legally.

Right.

They just live apart.

In that instance, he can move assets at any given time.

He.

He can go through all of their money and there's nothing anyone would say about it.

Nothing.

They can't even go back forensically and try to.

Even if they do, it doesn't matter because you're still married unless you file for legal separation.

He can move the money and go through all the money without any repercussions?

Yes.

Okay, so that's why.

That's why she's in such a dangerous place.

Because if.

The second that you file for legal separation, that's when it's like, okay, you can't move money, you can't move assets.

We need to know, what do you have now?

You can't touch it.

You can't sell stuff.

You can't.

So that way both people are protected.

Right?

But since she.

She's just been willy nilly for the past, I don't know, three something years, Right?

Yeah.

I mean, he.

Yeah, he could be doing that and you would never know.

You would never.

Oh, my God.

And I feel like she kind of.

I mean, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, obviously, but, like, she seems very, like, open to him and they seem to have a good relationship, but you never know what somebody.

Oh, my gosh.

I mean, you never know.

You never know.

You think that things are going well.

You think that he's not going to screw me.

You think people will do crazy shit in times of desperation, especially if his company needs it, especially if something comes up.

I mean, this guy has already proved who he is.

I mean, he's Seen with a different 20 year old with their legs wrapped around him every other week on the street.

I mean, if that's not cringe, I don't know what is.

That is so cringy, dude.

I mean, come on, you know, so how could you even trust a guy like that?

He doesn't even respect himself.

He doesn't respect you.

How's he going to respect your money?

Yeah, that's a good point.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

Kyle, beware.

Oh, my gosh.

Yes.

Okay, well, then you look at somebody like that, you know, that had been married for decades that didn't have a prenup.

Should we be talking about that before we get married nowadays?

Oh, yeah.

Should everybody have a prenup no matter what their valuation, how much money they have?

Yes, because a prenup determines how your assets get divided.

Okay?

That's what a prenup does.

It just deter.

And you're not leaving it up to a judge.

Now, you know, some people will say, well, everyone has a prenup because the state decides the rules.

Yes, but it could be for you or against you.

Right?

Each state is different.

You do not want somebody else deciding how your assets are going to be divided.

And not to mention, not to mention how much money you are going to put toward lawyers when you're the ones that win, they're the ones that win.

When you don't have a prenup.

Yes, but when you have a prenup, it's like, okay, this is the way it is.

But this is what women should be careful for when it comes to prenups.

Okay, this is what screwed Lisa Hochstein.

Okay, From.

Oh, right, with Lenny.

Yes.

Tell me this.

This is, this is how she got screwed.

Okay, so she signed a prenup when he was worth a tenth of what he's worth now.

Okay?

And the prenup is a static prenup.

That means it's based on what he was worth 20 years ago.

What you're worth 20 years ago.

Like the moment you sign.

The moment you sign it.

Okay, so it says, if we get divorced, I'll get $1.4 million.

I think that was the case with her.

Like 1.4 million, something like that.

I don't remember.

But within those 20 years, his net worth has exponentially increased.

Right?

He now he's worth $100 million, but your prenup still says 1.4 million.

So when they divorced, he's like, f you.

Our prenup says you only get $1.4 million.

Bitch what are you going to do?

So she had to fight that.

She had to fight that.

And typically you don't win.

And she.

I mean, she went through hell with Lenny.

I mean, she went through hell.

But what you want to do is make sure that your prenup is not a static prenup, that it grows when he grows.

So you have escalator clauses.

Oh.

As his net worth increases, so does what I get.

Every child I have, I get more money or it expires after a certain amount of time.

The prenup has to grow when he grows.

If not, you are stuck at the guy maybe working at Burger King.

Right.

Any money?

Didn't have any money at the beginning of his career.

Of his career.

Now he's worth $100 million.

And you're prenups and says you get $100,000.

Go fight it.

Oh, yeah, that's.

That's really important because every.

I mean, you think that the trajectory is.

You keep making more.

No.

Wow.

Did she.

So she didn't get.

Did she get what she was doing?

She fought it.

I don't know exactly how much she got.

I think she got more.

But one of the reasons she got more is because she was able to show that a.

She worked in his office.

She helped build that office.

Although she didn't have ownership interest.

She helped build that office.

She put him on tv, right?

Yeah, he.

I mean, he did.

Yeah.

He was rich before then, but after he.

She put him on tv, he blew up.

He was like the boob guy.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So she was able to show that because of her contributions to the business, that the business grew.

And this is exactly what she was, you know, what she was doing.

So I think she got more than, you know, what was in the, in the original prenup.

Okay, but.

Huh.

But that, that was.

She just got lucky.

What about.

Okay, like somebody like Sonia Morgan from the Real Housewives of New York.

I've often wondered about how her divorce, you know, settlement panned out because she was living in that townhouse.

But it seemed like she was a little cash poor.

Like I, you know, what happened?

Do you think she got a big settlement?

Like.

No, I think what happened is that she probably got the townhouse that was worth a lot of money.

Right.

And.

And maybe for a period of time, she may have gotten.

I'm sure she signed a prenup.

Prenup.

I'm sure.

I'm sure of it.

I don't know.

They don't.

That's not something that people actually talked about.

Right.

But I'm sure she signed a prenup, and part of it was that she got the home, which was great.

Right, Right.

And he probably gave her a certain amount of money every month.

But once your children leave, you don't get that child support anymore.

So once they turn 18, or is it 21 or 18.

Right.

You don't get child support anymore.

And the reason that child support is given is, is so that the child can have the same living conditions when they live with one parent versus another.

Okay, so this is why Halle Berry has to give her dusty husband so much child support, because they want the environment for the child to be similar.

So the child doesn't say, I'm living in a mansion one day and I'm living in a one bedroom apartment without air conditioning the next day.

Right.

But once that is cut off, and then I'm sure that she, she got spousal support for a certain period of time.

Right.

But after that dies, you got to make your own money.

And the court determines how much money you get based on whether you can work.

Oh, really?

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

So if you're, you're competent and working, they're like, okay, a person your age, your level experience can make X amount of dollars a year.

They take that out of what they give you.

Oh, wow, I didn't realize that.

So they're only paying the difference, really,.

Of what they think of your income potential.

Yes.

They're like, what is your income potential?

Okay.

And whatever that is, they take that money out of the spousal support that, that you would get.

Oh, that's important to know, too, because a lot of women, especially, you know, maybe they quit working to raise kids.

Right.

You know, and they're dedicating 20 years to this whole process.

And then, you know, they end up getting divorced.

And here they are trying to find a job, and they have no skills.

Yeah.

And they have no skills.

Yeah, no, no.

No credit history.

Typically that.

They typically have no credit history.

So they can't even rent an apartment.

They can't even get a credit card.

They can't even get a car.

They can't even literally get a cell phone because they don't have credit history.

And if they do, they have to pay cash for it.

Right.

So no skills, no job, no money, no credit history.

Now what?

Now what?

Now what are you going to do?

Yeah, what do.

Okay, what do you say to a woman in that case?

In that case, then this is why I tell women they need to protect themselves.

You have to make sure that you're building your credit.

Right.

While you're in this marriage.

So you need to have a credit card and your name only.

And not his credit card.

Okay?

Not the shared.

Like, not the shared.

Because what could happen is he could have a credit card and name you as an authorized user.

Okay, but that doesn't mean that you're building credit if you're an authorized user.

You're not responsible for it either, by the way.

Oh, he would always be.

Yeah, he would always be responsible for it.

But you're an authorized user, so you're not building credit.

So you need to have a credit card in your own name that you use once in a while.

You buy $20 here and there.

Nothing big.

You don't.

It's something you're going to pay off at the end of the month.

Just so you're building credit.

You need to have an account in your own name at a separate bank that you guys have your other accounts.

Because if it's at the same bank, it shows up on the dashboard.

Oh, so it could be.

Oh, so you need 100% separate.

100% Separate.

You only have the password.

You don't put that password in the shared icloud and the shared password manager.

You have a separate account in your own name at a separate bank that only you have access to, and you fund that every single month.

Now people are like, well, I'm a stay at home mom.

How do I do that?

You are on your phone constantly going through social media.

Sell one thing, sell your clothes, go on poshmark.

Start selling that bike in the garage that no one ever uses.

You know, start selling your stuff and you start building little by little by little.

So you're saying it doesn't matter how much?

It doesn't matter.

Just so it doesn't matter.

Just so you have something.

And I call that fuck you money.

Every woman should have fuck you money.

And that is money.

That is six months of living expenses in case something happens.

And that necessarily doesn't mean in case you get a divorce.

That necessarily doesn't mean in case he screws you.

It means what if he falls over and dies?

And you at that, at that very moment.

Right.

You may not have access to the accounts.

You may not, or he may not have any money.

Right.

Not everyone has.

I mean, very few people are set after their.

Their husband dies.

Very few women.

Right, right.

No matter what they're worth.

Yeah.

No matter what.

Yeah.

So that money is money that's going to support you and your kids for six months While you can figure out everything else, that's what that money is.

So you need that buffer for absolutely 100%.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

I'm like, ah, I gotta get all this liquid.

Like, liquid.

Yeah.

Ready to go.

It has to be.

And you just put it in a high yield savings account so you're not earning zero.

And there's a lot of Internet banks that will pay you 4 to 5%.

Great.

You know, just do a little research on Google.

Okay.

Who pays the highest interest rates?

Just put it there and you just start building and you start building little by little.

You can even do data entry on your laptop from your sofa and make money.

There's so many side hustles you can get right now.

Yeah.

I mean, Uber.

Uber eats.

You make your own hours, like everything, right?

Yeah.

One of my friends, let me tell you, he makes $200 a day because he commutes to work.

So he picks up someone from his house and it's a long commute.

Commutes to work, makes $100 on his way to work, makes $100 back.

You're kidding.

$200 A day he makes.

Right?

That's.

That's $1,000 a week.

Oh, my God, that's like easy money right there.

$4,000.

And guess what?

He doesn't need it.

He's just like, why not?

He's like, that money.

He's like, I invest.

Do you know I make 15% on that money?

Oh, my God.

That's.

That's actually really smart.

He's not disrupting what he would normally do.

Nothing.

It's just.

He's going that direction.

He picks up a ride that's direction and a ride that wants to go to this direction.

That's so easy.

And you're right.

There's so many things you can do.

There's the poshmark.

There's like.

Yeah.

You know, the real, real.

You can sell back your old stuff.

Uber eats.

Uber, like just.

There are little things you can do and you can plug it into your own.

Yes.

Schedule.

Yes.

I mean, God forbid something happens, you know, because you can't tell.

I mean, you have no idea.

No.

You have no idea.

Right?

I sit across from hundreds of women that are shocked that their husband all of a sudden dies.

I mean, again, not even.

We're not talking about fidelity.

We're just talking about, like, unexpected deaths,.

Like a drop dead of a heart attack.

They have no idea what a password is.

They don't know where one account is.

They don't know who owns the House.

They don't.

None of that.

None of that.

Oh, my God.

What do they have to do?

Do they just have to start, like, do they contact.

They contact an attorney, and then attorney is like, okay, let's figure all this out.

And then you have the inf.

Of the kids, and then the other relatives don't want to come in because they have no idea.

Like, okay, is there a will?

Is there a trust?

Who gets what?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Oh, my God.

Okay, let's talk a little bit about leveraging, too, because I've been seeing a lot of this on social media where people.

People are saying, leverage your own assets to gain more wealth.

Yeah.

So how do we do that?

First of all, you know, let's say we own a home.

Let's say we've got some investments.

You know, how do we go about leveraging things to, you know, to build the world?

Yeah, I. I normally do not recommend that.

Okay.

Okay.

I normally do not recommend that because you're always borrowing against something.

Okay.

And what happens is that unless you already have a lot of money.

And this is why social media just gives the worst advice to people.

Because.

Because they say leverage.

Leverage.

Because if you're overly leveraged, for example, so you're always borrowing against something.

Right.

So, for example, this.

This way, it works.

You have your home, okay.

And you want to buy an investment property, so you leverage your home to buy that investment property.

Okay.

So now all the equity is out of your home.

Oh, it's now.

Yeah.

Oh, And.

And there's a lien against your house.

Okay.

Okay.

So you're already on thin ice right there with your home.

Yeah.

God forbid that investment property not work out.

Now you got to pay the mortgage for that property and the mortgage for your property.

Okay, now what?

Now what?

Right.

Sticky.

So that's sticky.

Or you have investment accounts.

Yes.

Could you borrow against your investment account?

Sure.

But most people are not seasoned investors.

Most people are not these money managers, Right.

They don't know what's going on, so they borrow against the investment account.

Okay.

They put that in a business that fails, for example, and then now they have to pay off that loan.

They borrowed against the investment account.

So the money that could be compounding year to year that you could be making is gone.

So you're even in a worse situation.

So they're like, be smart.

This is how the rich people do it.

Yeah.

Did you hear that?

The guy who wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

I remember that book.

He is bankrupt.

You're kidding.

No, it just came out that this dude who was telling everybody, rich dad, poor dad, leverage, everything, whatever.

Yeah.

Is like millions and millions and dollars in debt and can't get out of it.

Did he just over leverage himself?

Is that he over leveraged?

Wow.

Okay.

Over leveraged.

You gotta be smart.

Now, there are some exceptions to this rule, right?

You're never gonna be the exception.

I'm sorry that, you know, like, I value my money way too much to count on an exception.

You know, anytime that I've played with my money the way I wasn't supposed to, I've lost.

And I'm in finance.

Yeah, exactly.

You're like, I know this.

Yeah, yeah.

So where should we be putting our money right now, okay?

If we're a midlife woman, like, what is smart for us?

What you need to do is you need to open an investment account, okay?

At Fidelity or Schwab.

It's a free account, and I say, I'm not partnering with those people.

I'm.

Those are just solid places, okay?

You need to open investment account, and you need to start funding it every single month.

You need to set up an automatic transfer from your checking account to go to your investment account.

And that investment account should be buying ETFs and index funds.

ETFs and index funds are a pool of funds, okay?

They're a pool, which means that you're automatically diversified because that's the key to investing diversification.

Right?

Diversification and time.

So, so Easy Google the ETFs or index funds that have the best track record for the past 10 years, whatever those are, you set it up that you buy some of those every single month, okay?

And people.

And I want to explain this to people, because sometimes they.

That share, One share is $200.

You're like, I can't afford $200 a month.

That's okay.

Fidelity and Schwab, or whatever platform you're on, make sure that they allow you to buy fractional shares.

Because then you're like, okay, I can't buy a share a month, but guess what?

I can buy a quarter of a share.

And you set it and you forget it.

You don't touch that money until you retire.

But I always want to say this.

You never put money in an investment account that you can't let sit for at least 10 years, okay?

Because 10 years is what it takes to beat the cyclical nature of the stock market.

Mean, bull bear, like, up and down.

The stock market is going to go up and down.

Eventually it's going to go up.

And historically, if you're in the stock market for 15 years, historically, your chances of losing your money is zero.

Okay, so it's a time game.

If you don't need it for 10 years, that's when you start investing.

And you need to start investing.

That's the way you build wealth.

That's a good.

That's a good point.

Just let it go.

Don't you.

No.

Do not buy.

Yes.

Do not sell.

Yes.

Don't do that.

Because they're like, oh, it's going down.

You should probably sell.

And, like, you shouldn't do that.

No.

That is the worst thing you can do.

Every study shows.

Every study shows that people who actually have access to information about the ups and downs of the stock market do exponentially worse than people who don't have access.

Because people that don't have access don't touch it.

Yeah.

I have never touched my investment account.

Through the bear market, through the bull market, never.

Consistent, consistent, consistent, consistent investing.

Isn't that interesting.

I know.

It's like.

In fact, a lot of times people say, buy when it's down.

You know what?

You should.

You should actually buy when it's down.

There's a saying that says you buy when there's blood on the street, even if the blood is yours.

So, yeah.

So when it's down, isn't that interesting?

That's when you buy.

It's actually the absolute reverse.

People think, when it's down, you should sell.

No, when it's down, you should buy.

Yeah, you should buy.

That's the time.

Exactly.

That's the time.

Yeah.

Okay, so what do you think about Bitcoin?

So I have a position in bitcoin.

Okay.

You do?

Yes.

But that should not be your core investment strategy.

That's like something on the side.

Yeah.

Let me tell you.

Let me tell you what I did, Roxy.

About eight years ago, nine years ago, I put $5,000 in Bitcoin because I was like, that is $5,000 I am willing to lose.

Right.

You're willing to part.

I am willing to part with the $5,000.

If it goes to zero, it's not going to affect my overall investment picture.

Right.

So those could be side.

Side things.

Or for example, I have.

I have all ETFs and index funds except a few things.

Like I have a position in Tesla.

I also have a position in Planeteer.

I have a position in this other.

It's called Enphase.

But again, those are three or four positions.

Those are side positions.

That is not my main core portfolio.

And that's the way it should be for all crypto, anything that's not an ETF or index fund, that should be money that, okay, if I lose it, I'll be okay with it.

So that you can just, if you're.

Okay with, think of this, anything, any one stock can go to zero at any given time.

Tesla was about to go bankrupt.

Tesla, right?

Right.

When everyone's putting their money in.

Yeah.

Tesla was about to go 30 days from bankruptcy.

If an iPhone started blowing up in people's faces, Apple stock plummet.

So if Apple stock, for example, everyone says, buy Apple, buy Apple.

If iPhones started exploding people's faces, Apple stock would plummet.

If you found Jeff Bezos was funneling money, Amazon stock would plummet.

Right.

So that's why you don't want individual stocks as your core portfolio.

Okay, what about AI though?

What about AI stocks?

Like anthropic and like all those other.

Yeah, I, those are still too risky for me.

Okay, so you're not investing in that yet.

I, I have not invested in any AI stocks.

So, like, waiting to see.

Waiting to see.

I, I, I do not want to lose my money.

I don't want to lose my money.

And I'm telling you, every time I have got.

There was a time I'll tell you the story so people can learn from the story.

I had about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to put down on a piece of property I was going to buy.

I had it in my, in my savings account.

I was getting 5% on it.

Okay.

And I was like, well, there was a delay.

I'm like, okay, Well I have three months from the time it's delayed three months.

So I'm not just going to get 5%.

Let me put it in the stock market.

Stock market was booming during that time.

Let me put it in.

I'm going to make 15% on it.

Okay.

I'll take it out in three months.

The first two months.

Great, great.

The last month, the month I was taking it out, the stock market plummeted.

I lost.

Yes.

I lost thousands and thousands of dollars.

Yes.

Because you never know.

Yeah, you never know.

You can't.

There's an investment strategy that works and short term investing is not it.

I didn't have 10 years.

Right.

That money I put in the stock market is not 10 year money.

It's money I needed in three months.

That's why you keep it in a savings account.

You don't put it in the stock market.

I know.

And we're at this point in life right now where we're kind of in the midway point, you know, so it's like, where do we put our money?

And it's like really, you know, you're thinking for the future.

You're thinking for, you know, maybe future generations for your, you know, well being.

Absolutely.

So this is all really good to know.

Okay, what are the three biggest tips you want every midlife woman to know about money?

Okay, the first tip is that you are better with money than your husband.

That's the first tip.

Because most middle aged women do not have the confidence to start investing, to start putting money, money away.

But women have been proven to be better investors.

Okay, so that's my first tip.

Second tip is know what's going on in your family about finances.

Know everything.

Okay.

Inspect what you expect, know how many accounts you have, what the estate plan is, where's the will, what are the passwords?

In my book, I, I list like all.

I have like a checklist of everything women need to know.

No.

Okay, that's, that's the second one.

And third, you need to start figuring out how much money you need for retirement.

Okay, how do we calculate that?

Okay.

Okay, so this is where AI comes in handy.

Okay?

Use AI.

Tell them how much money you make right now, what your expenses are right now, okay?

And then it will tell you, because at retirement everyone thinks you're going to be going on all these vacations and stuff.

You're not.

You need about 80% of what your living expenses are.

Right.

But everyone's different.

You may want to do that, I don't know, but AI will help you through that.

And then it, and then it will tell you how much money you need for your retirement.

And then it will tell you, then you, then you say, if I'm investing this money at 10%, that's average because the stock market gives you between 8 to 12%.

Okay.

At a 10% return.

If I invest this money for however many years you have to retirement.

So if you're 40, retirement is a 20.

At 65, you have 25 years.

Right?

However many years you have.

How much do I need to start investing today?

And I will tell you exactly.

It's a formula.

It's a formula, okay?

It's based on what you already, how.

You live, how you live now, how you want to live later.

Like some people are like, I'm going to sell everything.

I'm going to live in a one bedroom.

Okay?

That situation is going to be much different than someone who is going to want to keep their house.

Right?

So you just Tell AI what you want to do, how much money you need, how much money you have now, how much money you're spending now.

It will tell you exactly how much you need to invest every single month.

Okay, that's, that's a really good tool.

Yeah.

I saw thing Kevin o' Leary on social media.

He said in order to just be set, he actually gave a number.

And I want to know what you think of this number.

He said 5 million is where you are like worry free basically for the rest of your life.

What do you think about that?

He says that, but that's $5 million in cash.

Okay.

Not a lot of people are ever going to have liquid, liquid $5 million.

So he says that everyone's like, oh my God, what great advice.

Well, I help.

Yeah.

You think assets, right?

Right.

No, it's $5 million in cash.

Right.

Then what if you have $5 million in cash, you're probably earning some, you know, interest on that money, so you have enough to live and get by.

But even at 5 million, you're not living extravagantly.

You're living a good life.

Very middle class, intermediate life.

But yeah, to have $5 million in cash, most people are not, you know, middle class people.

Yes.

It just does.

You know, I call it these finance bros that just like, you know, give this advice and people don't think through what that actually means.

Right, right.

You have to really, like sit down and analyze that and like hear what he's saying.

Yes, exactly.

It's true.

Okay, Ms. Patty, how are you living iconically right now?

I am living iconically by starting my new platform.

Get your 50.

Like I said, where I am helping middle aged women protect themselves financially in their marriage because they're going to get screwed.

And this is what it's all about.

Yes.

100.

Can everybody find you?

Where can they?

I mean, I love your social media.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Obviously there too.

Thank you.

Yes.

So you can find me at Duchess of Decorum.

It's my handle on Tick tock and instagram or patty aside.com.

That's my website.

You'll find all my courses there.

Everything that I'm doing, it's all there.

Guys, go check her out because she has the best financial advice.

Plus she's hilarious and she always relates it back to pop culture, which I love.

So I'm always like, oh my God, who's she talking about today?

Yeah.

So good.

Thank you so much, Patty, for joining me.

I got to be honored.

Thank you for having me.

This is awesome, Patty.

You make talking about money a lot more fun than it has any right to be.

But beneath all of it, I think there's something really important here.

Financial independence isn't simply about how much money you make.

It's about agency.

It's about options, and it's about never having to stay in a job, a relationship or a life simply because you can't afford to leave it.

And if you love this conversation, follow the iconic midlife wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe on YouTube and follow me on social media heconicmedlife and redcorpetroxy so you don't miss what's coming next and come back Thursday because Patti is sticking around for a game of rich move or broke move.

And I've deliberately made these scenarios so complicated that even the Duchess of Decorum may have trouble picking a side.

And to everyone watching and listening, getting older is inevitable.

But becoming iconic is a choice.

I'll see you next time on the Iconic Medlife.