In this episode we hear Stacey and Adrian's story. They moved at short notice to Dubai, UAE and have navigated having a young family along with developing both of their successful careers.

They tell us about making difficult decisions, how they coped in the early stages of their dual career-ing, the feelings of parental guilt and share how things have developed so that they are both able to encourage each other and push each other to grow their careers.

They share how they collaborate and communicate on the day-to-day and the longer term to make it work.

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I'd really like to welcome Adrian Stacy to the podcast today. We've just been talking off the recording about one of the reasons I wanted to speak to you both was that when we were all living in Dubai together, I would always look to you guys and think there's a couple that really seem to be working it out well together.

Um, both of you've got your different careers and I'll ask you to tell me a little bit about those in a moment. Uh, I was really interested to find out a little bit more about how you work, make it work between. The two of you. So, but just to, just to get us started, I'm wondering if you could just tell me a little bit about how long you've been in Dubai and about where you're, where you're working at at the moment, what, what stage of your career you're at.

Kate: Yeah, I know that's something you've been speaking about for a while and you did your qualification as well during the time that you've been in Dubai. Or was that before?

And I decided that I wanted to do a bit more than just support one individual and decided that HR was, I really enjoyed, I had a lot interested, so I decided to better myself and learn a bit more it.

Guest (Adrian): Uh, I work as in Financial Advisor industry rule, self-employed really. So, although I work for a firm, the, the firm just essentially provide the framework, which allows you to sort of plug into it and, and operate from within it. And, uh, I've been doing that just coming up to seven years. I'm just about to approach the eighth year doing that. I haven't quite done it the entire time that we've been here, but, uh, the bulk of it, if you like.

Kate: Yeah. Do you mind me asking what, what brought you into the country?

Guest (Stacey): Really, it was,

Guest (Adrian): Yeah. I mean, as I said, I was in the military, so it was a sort of easy transition job for me. You know, work as a training consultant, but in a civilian capacity, but for the military is quite an easy, um, or, well, not easy, but an easier transition to civilian life, as they say, than, you know, out on your own.

Yeah. Suppose so. I guess it was, I, I guess looking back, it's probably the path of least resistance job wise, but, but just involved. Less scary than going to work in a bank!

So yeah, so that's how we ended up.

Kate: Okay. And what happened for you at that appointment, Stacy? What was the career kind of implication for you?

Yeah. Uhhuh, um, within, um, I think within four weeks we'd organized this great big wedding and then, um, you had to do a tour in Afgan, didn't you?

Guest (Adrian): Yeah. Yeah.

Guest (Stacey): And then by the time he got back from Afghan, I was like seven months. I was just finishing up my, um, my role in the UK knowing that I was moving out here.

Kate: Yeah, absolutely. I hear you. Um, so how so. Sorry, I'm gonna sound really nosy, but I'm totally interested and it's really nice actually, that I haven't heard all of this before on various nights out that we've had.

Um, but when you were sort of saying, you know, um, ‘I was losing my marbles’ and ‘I wanted to get back into the workplace’, what did that mean in terms of the household and what did you need to do to kind of make that happen for you so that both of you carry on?

Guest (Stacey): Um, To be honest, I actually find it very, very difficult to start with.

Guest (Stacey): It was quite difficult in the first instance to find a job here. Um, we didn't have home help at the time and, um, As a, as a, as a, a young mom with young children, you naturally want, um, part-time work, which just does not exist here as you know, as you know, Kate. Um, so I kinda got thrown straight in the deep end, um, into fulltime work.

I came across a maternity position, maternity cover position at King's School. I think Hugo was five months old at the time, wasn't he? And it's, and because I've been looking for something for so long, I kind of felt that I had to kinda grab it with two hands, even though I wasn't 100% sure about going back with Hugo being so young.

We, um, Hugo, he actually was in nursery very long hours, which was, he used to be able to stay until 6:00 PM to be able to drop him off at seven in the morning. The guilt that you feel as a parent is just horrific.

Kate: Yeah. Good. So the, I mean, that sounds like it was a bit of a transition as soon as you knew that it was a permanent role, but up until that point, everything had to kind of stay temporary and transient.

Guest (Stacey): Yeah. Yeah. Literally, I got offered the role and we literally, I think we looked at, went to sort off in houses that weekend.

Guest (Adrian): Um, I know it sounds. I don't want to sound really sort of crass saying, oh, it's really hard to parent and work at the same time on, you know, there's boatloads of people that successfully do it, but, um, yeah, we really struggled with it, didn't we?

Guest (Stacey): It wasn't anything that we were going to change. Um, I think it was at that point that we really felt the not having family here, um mm-hmm. kind of scenario. And that's when it kind of, that's where, that's what sort of made it very difficult for us and we didn't have anyone that we could completely rely on to help us with the children.

Guest (Adrian): Yeah. It seems, you know, we're speaking on Zoom now, right? And you know, I now work quite a lot from home and work on Zoom all the time and can be flexible, but although it was only sort of five or six years ago, you’d never heard of Zoom, it was, everything was more rigid and in person and less able to be, um, you know, a bit more flexible with it.

Kate: And your hours were kind of around the school hours as well, so you were kind of, you, there's no, there was no flexibility there either, Stacey?

Guest (Stacey): No. You had to be in and out at the, at the same time.

Kate: Um, I remember when first arriving in Dubai (pre pandemic and everything was face-to-face) spending a lot of time driving around to meet clients. Which you just don't, you don't do now, but it does offer that kind of flexibility either like, oh, I'll have my last meeting of the day at home rather than I'm going to be across town at 5:00 PM and trying to get back for a pickup, or whatever it might be.

I think that's what I'm hearing you say.

Guest (Stacey): Yeah. Yeah. That's essentially what happened. Yeah. Um, I mean, at the time you just, it wasn't that long. I mean, It was a few months, wasn't it? It was six months or something.

Kate: Yeah, it's quite a long time with little people, isn't it? With yes. Little ones and lack asleep and all that kinda thing.

Yeah, you were going to say Adrian, you were looking…

Guest (Adrian): I was just going to say that my transition happened quite early on in that period. So it is a separate entity, its own, um, it was pretty near the beginning really, wasn't it? I think we've already been here about 18 months.

Kate: Right. Ok.

Guest (Adrian): It wasn't like I was doing that at the same time that this was going on.

Kate: It wasn't all staggered. But what do you think makes it work for you now, if you think about like when you, well, I suppose ask you a different question. Do you sit down now and talk about your careers and what's going to happen next?

Guest (Adrian): We talk about yours, don't we?

I'm just taking it as it comes.

Kate: Yeah, that's okay. I suppose I, I'm kind of curious as well. Do you see yourself staying in Dubai? Do you think you move again?

Guest (Adrian): No, we'll stay here.

Kate: You'll stay? Yeah. Forever and ever?

Guest (Stacey): Is there a forever home do you think? We’ll certainly need to see our careers out here, won't we?

Um, but certainly for our working lives. Yeah, I don't, I don't really see us moving.

Guest (Stacey): Um, also, we'd like to see the children through school. The kids have only ever been here, right, so this is their, what they know, I think we always speak about this quite regularly, don't we? About where the children will end up. And I obviously, um… cause I have a feeling that I'll end up in the UK personally.

Guest (Adrian): The world is a big place.

Um, we were joking the other night that he could be the President, which is like quite a scary concept. Well, I could see him, I could see him going, ‘Oh, I could be’ You, you open up so many different opportunities when you kind of give them the international experience as well, or it's what they know, isn't it?

But there's not that level of, there's not that sort of mindset amongst them. Is there? So, I don’t know, maybe they do go back to the UK. Uh, I would, I'd be surprised if they, if they pick that as a…

Kate: I think you already see secondary education, higher education coming along so much in the UAE, don't you?

In terms of the universities that are available and, which even 10 years ago that wouldn't have been the case, like people would've sent the children home to get that higher education. So yeah, it's a whole different thing.

Guest (Stacey): Do you know what I found here really important? It's who you know, not what you know.

Kate: Okay.

Guest (Stacey): Yeah. Um, I mean, I found Kings, for example, because of somebody that I knew here and, um, she very kindly put me forward for the job there. Now, whilst it was only a temporary role, as I said earlier, the reason I'm where I'm now is because of that role and I'm very, very grateful for that.

So, I think networking is very important here.

Um, I don’t know if, again, it's generic but I always, whenever I speak to people back in the UK, I always feel like I work a bit harder. Okay, over here, I feel like the hours are, um, are longer and for both of us, and, you know, a lot of people at home will not be happy if they're working evenings or uh, or weekends, whereas that's pretty standard for us, isn't it? Certainly for me. I guess, people often don't like doing that, but it's one of those things, if you don't do [00:20:00] it, then it's not really the kind of place where you can expect to keep it with a pack if you don't. Yeah. It's a bit, um, cutthroat, I suppose. And you just get left behind. But yeah, like networking and, and hard work are probably good things.

Um, uh, so I'm kind of wondering between the two of you, how do you make it work?

Guest (Adrian): Do you mean do we think that needs to happen?

Kate: No. No. It doesn't sound like it to me, but I'm interested in how, like, how you sort of work it between the two of you so that you can both sort of progress as you need to, so you can both thrive in your careers.

Guest (Adrian): Yeah. I don't know, really, I mean, we have help, right? That's, I guess, that's really important to highlight that we do have help. So there's a lady that lives with us that helps with the sort of running of the house and stuff like that. I think it would be, life would be a lot harder if we didn't have that, right?

Yeah, and then a gentleman currently picks the kids up from school for us in an afternoon again, which saves one of us being dragged out in order to do that.

Guest (Adrian): So yeah, in terms of our time management, so our diary is quite boring. Stacey puts stuff into my diary and we just…

Guest (Stacey): :ike on a Sunday, we'll sit and just quickly go through our week, um, just to see if there's anything that we both need to be aware of or something the kids needs to havee done or.

Guest (Adrian): I think it's just, I definitely don't think one of us feels as though, you know, we're having to take a step back or whatever to let the, everyone crack on.

Guest (Adrian): Yeah. But, yeah, I think you just communicate right?

And, uh, and, and encourage and, um, yeah, just keep, keep going. I don't think it's. I dunno. I guess if you're just doing it, it's sort of normal life, you don't necessarily think it's, it's difficult, right? If you, if you're driving your car at hundred miles now and then you slow down to 50, it doesn't feel like you're going fast at 50 anymore, so yeah, that's just how we've done things so it doesn't feel like either of us needs to take a, um, foot off the gas at all.

Kate: Yeah. That's lovely. It, listening to you both, what I really noticed is that it just sounds like, I'm not saying it's easy because I hear that it's not easy, but the, the way that you make decisions and the way that you do it and what you've got in place allows you to do it some ease so that neither of you is feeling kind of, I don’t, hampered in their career.

Guest (Adrian): It just sounds really boring…

Kate: It doesn't to me. I'm like ‘Shared calendar? How do you do a shared calendar?’ and that you're always encouraging each other. It's like you're kind of, um, like you, it sounds as though you're building foundations so you can build each other. Rather than saying, ‘I'm gonna do this now’. It's like you're both, you're both able to move forward.

Guest (Stacey): Yeah. We've never pulled one another back in any way, have we? We encouraged and push each other to.

Um, thank you so much for coming on and sharing, um, kind of part of your story.

Kate: Stacey and Adrian seem to just make it sound easy, but really what they've spoken about in this episode is about making hard decisions, they've spoken about the guilt they felt was parents, the things that they were eventually able to put in place to make it work. They showed vulnerability around what that's actually been like, um, and shared with us what it's like to collaborate and to communicate, along with tips like linking your diaries, speaking about how to encourage and to push each other to do better, um, meaning that both of your