In this Christmas bonus episode of Best Book Forward, I’m delighted to welcome back Matt Cain MBE for a catch-up on everything he’s been up to since we last spoke.

It’s been quite a year for Matt, from receiving his MBE at Windsor Castle to sharing the powerful story of coming out again as autistic. In this conversation, we talk about what those moments have meant to him, and how they’ve shaped both his life and his writing.

We also revisit his beautiful novel One Love, and Matt gives us an exclusive glimpse into what he’s working on next and it sounds absolutely brilliant.

Of course, no episode of Best Book Forward would be complete without some irresistible book recommendations to add to your festive reading list. Here’s everything we discussed:

📚 Books by Matt Cain

• One Love
• The Secret Life of Albert Entwistle
• Becoming Ted
• The Madonna of Bolton
• The Castle of Stories — coming soon

✨ Books Mentioned

• The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis
• Kiss of the Spider Woman by Manuel Puig
• Thomas Hardy: The Time-Torn Man by Claire Tomalin
• The Invisible Woman by Claire Tomalin 
• The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller
• One Day by David Nicholls
• The Homemade God by Rachel Joyce
• The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry by Rachel Joyce
• The Light a Candle Society by Ruth Hogan
• So, I Met This Guy by Alexandra Potter

I really hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I loved recording it.

Tomorrow, I’ll be sharing another festive conversation in The Christmas Chapter series, catching up with another wonderful past guest.

In the meantime, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review Best Book Forward, and don’t forget to tell your friends it makes a huge difference in helping new listeners discover the show.

See you tomorrow, and happy listening. 🎄

Listen & Subscribe Now:

https://best-book-forward.captivate.fm/listen

To stay in touch with Best Book Forward news please follow me on Instagram @bestbookforward or visit my website: https://bestbookforward.org/

Welcome back to another Christmas special of Best Book Forward, the podcast where I talk to authors about the books that have shaped their lives.

It's kind of like a bookish version of Desert Island Discs.

Today, I'm delighted to be welcoming back Matt Kane, MBE, author of the Madonna of Bolton, Becoming Ted the Secret Life of Albert Entwistle, which and one Love.

Matt joins me today to catch up on what he's been up to since we last spoke and to find out all about his incredible year, from accepting his MBE at Windsor Castle to coming out again as autistic.

We'll catch up on what he's working on, what he's been reading and loving this year, and we'll also find out which of his characters he'd invite to his ultimate Christmas drinks party.

So, without further ado, grab your mulled wine, pull up a comfy chair, and let's give Matt Kane a warm welcome back to the show.

Matt, welcome back, and thank you so much for joining me on Best Foot Forward for a Christmas special.

It's very good to be back at Christmas.

I'm just slightly embarrassed, Helen, because it's dark in here.

So I've set up a ring light, and you can see it reflected in my glasses.

It's Christmasy.

It's Christmassy.

It is.

I'm just gonna own up to my vanity having a ring light.

You could say it's the baubles from your Christmas tree reflecting.

My husband won't let me have a Christmas tree.

What?

I know.

Well, he's Jewish, and so certain things he just doesn't like doing.

And actually, the thing about a Christmas tree is I've always gone home to my family for Christmas with my husband.

Now, it's not that he objects to celebrating Christmas, but so for me, Christmas starts when I kind of leave and go home.

Yeah.

So I don't actually mind that.

It's fine.

It's fine.

But, yeah, this is as Christmassy as I get with my ring light.

It's perfect.

It's perfect.

So we recorded in November, and One Love was released in January, which is when the podcast went out as well.

Can't believe it does feel like it was yesterday.

But should we start off by giving everyone a little flavor of what One Love was about, just in case they've missed it and still need to pick it up?

Yes.

Right.

Have I got my elevator pitch ready to go?

They bond by exploring their sexuality together in the gay village.

But what one of them doesn't realize is the other one is secretly in love with him.

And 20 years later they go back to Manchester for Pride weekend, which is a four day weekend.

And over the course of those four days everything comes to a head in ways that neither of them could have predicted.

And yes, it's my love letter to Manchester.

It's about the blurred boundaries between friendships and romantic and sexual relationships which I really wanted to write about ever since reading One Day by David Nicholls, which I loved.

Although this is very different and although actually what it also has, this is also about that kind of special time at university a couple of decades ago when you used to go away and there'd be a kind of freedom to express, explore yourself without anybody at home knowing what you were doing.

And actually for gay men, for queer people, that was quite useful.

So yeah, that's one love.

And since then we actually sold the TV struck film rights, which is very exciting.

Although to be honest, you never quite know like when you tell people you've sold the TV and film rights, the development rights, people think it's going to happen.

I think something like 1 in 10 books that are optioned actually get made into the film or TV series.

So I see it as a nice kind of bonus but I don't get too excited in case it doesn't happen and my hopes are dashed.

How lovely, David.

But it is, it's nice that it's been recognized because it is a beautiful.

And actually just hearing you talking about it again, I was like, oh, I could pick it up again actually it's been.

I didn't realise it was quite so long ago since I'd read it actually.

What's been the response like from readers to it?

Everybody has.

It's interesting actually because you get a real flurry when a book is new and in promotion and you're posting about it all the time.

But the interesting thing about this book is, is even a year later, 18 months later, whatever it is, I'm still getting messages on social media from people.

So you get comments all the time.

But what's really nice is when somebody messages you directly because they felt such an intense resonance and they felt the need to contact the author.

And I keep getting that with One Love.

So yeah, it's great.

I must have done something right.

Well, it's a really emotional book, isn't it?

I think.

Whereas, you know, Ted and Albert were sort of lighter still lovely and joyful.

But there was a lot of sort of deep feelings, wasn't there, in one loaf.

So I can see that people probably.

I remember when I read it, I was voice noting you, wasn't I, on Instagram as I was reading it, like, oh man.

So I can see that people.

That's lovely.

I love that people are contacting you for that.

No, you're right.

I think I always put everything of all of myself and my heart and soul into every book.

But I think I was drawing on more personal experiences with this one and I think it does give it an edge.

You know, when it's kind of cutting through, people just feel it a bit more deeply.

I think so, yeah.

I mean it's been great and it only came out in America a year.

My books in America are a year behind here.

Oh, interesting.

Which is, yeah, a bit weird, but so it only came out in America about four or five months ago.

So it still feels quite new.

Yeah.

Well, anyone who is listening who hasn't read it, definitely pick it up because it is, well, all of your books, you know, I'm a huge fan so I would always say pick it up.

You've always been so supportive.

I love you, I love your books, I love everything that you do.

So I was so excited when you said yes because I know you're busy working at the moment.

I know you're so disciplined when you're working, unlike me.

So are you able to share a little sneak peek of what you're working on at the moment?

What's going on with you?

So I have written a new contemporary novel.

I don't know when it's coming out in the UK yet, but because we are sticking with the same publisher in America, I do know it's coming out in America next June and that is set.

So I married a man who has a second home in Italy which is this absolutely gorgeous.

Married very well.

You did.

I would recommend is a thousand year old farmhouse with about 40 acres of land, an olive Grover vineyard, the ruins of a castle.

It's gorgeous.

It's the most romantic, gorgeous Tuscan farmhouse and I have set my next contemporary novel there.

It's about two gays obviously I wanted to write about.

I like to write about people who aren't young, who've lived a bit and loved and lost.

And I wanted to write about family and different forms of family.

And this is about two gays who meet in their 40s and one has been married to a woman and has three kids.

Oh, interesting.

The other one inherits this very old farmhouse in Italy from a great uncle he didn't even know existed.

So there's some whole murky family drama going on.

And he and his new man of about a year go out there for the summer to do it up with the three kids who can't stand their dad's new boyfriend.

And over the course of the summer, their relationships evolve as my central character, who inherited the house, finds out through going through his great uncle's stuff what the story is, why he didn't know about this man, why he went to live in Italy.

And there's a past tense timeline that reflects on what's going on in the present.

I love it.

I'm really excited about it.

And it's.

It is about family bonds.

Step, step, parenthood, blended families through a queer lens.

Because if you.

I sometimes think if you look at universals through a queer lens, they can just have an added intensity that is still.

There's still of interest to everyone, but there's just that added intensity.

So I'm really proud about that book.

It's coming out in America next June.

I don't quite know yet.

In the uk, we're just working all that out.

And in the meantime, I am writing a historical novel, so something very different.

That's why I've kind of not been doing.

You are the only person, Helen, I would speak to on a podcast.

I have ruled out everything else because I'm trying to get so immersed in this past period and this fictional world.

And that's what I'm doing at the moment.

I've no idea what's going to happen to it, whether it's going to work or what.

I'm about a third of the way through.

I'm sure it will.

And the one that's coming out in June, my husband's American, so I'm going to ask his family to send me a copy because I'm not waiting.

I will send you a copy.

I will send you a copy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I can't wait.

It sounds amazing.

And the historical one sounds really interesting as well, so thank you.

The one that's coming out in June, set in Italy, is called the Castle of Stories.

Oh, I love that.

I quite like that.

It's kind of romantic and atmospheric and.

Yeah, it's.

So I'm really excited about that.

But anyway, it's quite weird because when you're.

Usually when you're promoting a book, your head is in the new one and you have to kind of switch and that's what's going on a bit.

And I've got a whole other historical period to deal with, so it is a bit weird.

You will nail it.

I'm sure you will.

So, last time.

Sorry, thanks.

I'm just doing that, crossing my fingers.

Last time we spoke, we talked about how you weave stories so they're heartwarming and joyful, but also mixing diversity and, you know, celebrating.

Celebrating it.

Which brings me perfectly on to talking about your incredible news when earlier this year you were awarded your MBE for your services to LBGTQ Culture.

I was over the moon for you when I heard.

I just thought it was so well deserved and such exciting news.

So, Matt, tell us what that was like for you.

Thank you.

You know what?

I'm annoyed at myself now because it's framed in the downstairs loo and I should have brought it up.

I'm on the top floor now.

I should have brought it up to show you.

I. Oh, I'll tell you what I will do.

Wait there one second, hold tight, I'll show you.

We will hold tight because I'm sure it'll be worth the wait.

So this, Helen, is from the upstairs.

Lou, this is something that nobody has seen.

Show us, show us, show us.

This is something.

When you get an MBE, you get this certificate sent.

Oh, wow.

It's from Charles iii.

And there's also Camila's signature.

Wow.

So this is hanging up in the upstairs loo.

Isn't it brilliant?

I love it.

It's so amazing.

Anyway, nobody's seen that.

Well, thank you.

We're honored.

I was.

I was really excited.

So the truth is between us, right?

So you find out about five or six weeks before, and it was coming up to my 50th birthday, which is on the 27th of December, my birthday, and I was slightly down about turning 50.

So we'd arranged.

I said to Harry, my husband, the one who has a castle in Italy, which I would recommend, I said to him, can we go on holiday?

I just want to go away, away from everything and be on a beach and relax.

So we went.

We booked to go to Thailand.

And then at the beginning of December, I got a letter which says.

Which literally just came through the letterbox on a normal day when I went down for my lunch and it was.

I just couldn't believe it.

So I've got it here.

So it says, I'm writing in the strictest confidence to inform you that you are to be recommended to His Majesty the King for the honour of Member of the Order of the British Empire in the New Year's Honours list.

The short citation for the award would read because you have to tell them whether or not you're going to accept it.

Hence the conditional writer and broadcaster for services to LGBTQ culture.

This recommendation has been made by the Prime Minister on the advice of the independent main honours Committee, following an independent assessment process.

Can you imagine that when you go downstairs for your beans on toast at lunchtime?

So I was really excited and the thing for me is I grew up never imagining everybody hated me for being gay.

You know, I was just bullied and battered and the idea.

And gay men were social pariahs in the 80s.

The idea that I'd be getting an award for it, I nearly said from the King, but when I actually went, it was the Prince of Wales giving it to me.

You know, it just never.

People say, was it a dream come true?

It was beyond a dream come true.

I would never have been able to imagine it.

Gays didn't get MBE's for being.

For contributions to gay culture in those days.

So yeah, it was amazing.

It was brilliant.

It was so good.

And it's such a great story for other young gay men to look, you know that it's, you know, times have changed, look at you and everything.

But for you to be recognized, I think it was just really.

I was over the moon for you, Matt.

I thought it was just incredible.

So thank you.

But I slightly shot myself in the foot because when the news.

Cause you're not allowed to tell anybody.

So I was really excited about the news coming out.

I mean, I did tell my mom and Harry, but I was really excited about the news coming out.

I can't like something like six in the morning, I can't remember.

But I ended up not being here to celebrate.

But then we had the day when we got it and it was brilliant.

Yeah, it was.

But you were celebrating in Thailand, I'm sure.

Totally, totally amazing.

So, as if that didn't make the year big enough, then in June you also did something which again, I was just heavily applauding.

I'm so delighted where you decided to, to come out again as autistic.

And I just thought the timing is exactly what the world needs right now.

So could you tell us what, what it was that made you decide to do that and what the reaction has been to it?

The Reaction has been unbelievable.

So I was only diagnosed 25th September.

I can remember because it's my sister's birthday, my mum and Dad's wedding anniversary, 25th September last year.

And basically, you know, I'd had certain things I was struggling with.

There's lots of positives, lots of positives, but there were certain things I was struggling with that led me to want answers.

And because there was more awareness around, I started to think this may be an issue.

And I was diagnosed as autistic and ADHD on the 25th of September last, last year.

And basically one of my nephews, my second oldest nephew, was at university and struggling for various reasons, and he started to get investigated and was then diagnosed autistic.

And I just thought how ridiculous that, you know, I didn't know it about myself, but I've known and loved him since the day he was born, and I didn't even know it when he was struggling and had to drop out of one university and started another, you know, And I thought the reason people don't know is because there isn't enough awareness and people don't quite get what it is.

You know, they think they have certain stereotypes and a lot of those don't apply to me, you know, so they'll talk about autistic people being cold and having no emotion.

And actually, the truth is you're either hypo emotional, which means you don't feel emotions as much, or you're hyper emotional.

You just don't have what's considered to be the range of regular reactions in between.

I'm hyper and I struggle to manage my emotions, which actually, when you're writing is brilliant because you can manage it when it's on the page.

And to feel emotions really intensely is a gift.

And actually, when you said about me being very disciplined, I am very disciplined, and I actually think my autism really helps for that to be really rigid and organized.

I've got the adhd, which sets off sparks of ideas and creativity flying everywhere, but then I'll knuckle down with the autism and I will always see through.

I'm very rigid in my thinking, whatever idea I go with.

So, yeah, it was the idea that there was a lot of misunderstanding around it, you know, so I did want to combat that.

That's why I came out and I did a big article in the Guardian and then I went on Lorraine Kelly, which was fantastic, and I said to Lorraine, please, can we speak about the positives and how it's helped me?

And she said, yeah, of course we can.

And that's all we did.

We only spoke about the positives.

But that's what's needed.

Right.

Especially at the moment.

There's so much negativity and sort of scaremongering going on at the moment.

And we're a very neurodivergent family as well, so we sort of try to look at, you know, the positives, but also we do see things as strengths, you know, the hyper empathy as well.

I agree.

I think it is a strength.

It's like, yes, it can be draining for you and sort of difficult to manage, but I just thought it was brilliant.

I love doing that.

He's great, isn't it?

It was brilliant.

And I loved that you used the Harvey Milk quote, come out, come out, wherever you are.

I was like.

I just felt like I was walking down the high street, and exactly where I was walking down the high street, I was like, yes, that's what we need.

We need people to come on, be proud.

Well, that's what Harvey Milk said in the 70s about gays.

He said, if everybody comes out, there was this rallying speech, come out, come out, wherever you are.

Said if everybody comes out, then straight people won't be able to demonize us because they'll see we're just like them and we're real people.

And, you know, and I thought, it's the same thing with autistic people now.

If we all came out, people would understand it better and there couldn't be any demonization.

So that's what I.

That's why I did it.

Yeah.

And it's had.

You know, it has had amazing responses.

You know, I mean, not across the board.

I have had some negativity.

But that's partly why you do it, isn't it?

To combat the negativity.

So I can't say that was a surprise.

Well, people's thoughts need to be challenged.

I think people do still sort of see, you know, see it and they don't understand.

I get really frustrated when people talk about autism.

Like, oh, you know, they'll talk about my child, like, but he's so social.

I'm like, yes, that's.

He's not.

You know, they don't all sort of fit in the same mold.

Just celebrate each person for who they are, what they are, and the way they.

They live.

Don't make it harder for.

And it's hard enough getting through life anyway, isn't it so.

But no, I thought it was brilliant.

Do you think, Matt, that it will change the way you approach your writing and your characters, having your diagnosis?

That's a good question.

That's a good question.

Well, I think it's been informing my writing the whole time.

So as I said, things like hyper empathy, hypersensitivity, you know, feeling intense emotions, all that's been very good, as had the.

You know, I'm a big planner.

I like stories to rattle along, to have lots of plots and subplots and all that.

Actually, the autism and the organization really helps with that.

But one thing I did realize, Helen, is I have always wrote about the search for self.

Characters not understanding themselves, feeling different, feeling like they don't fit in, feeling wrong.

And I mean, obviously all my books are very different, but this is always in there, that they're working from a place of.

Of being ashamed in who they are, that they've been meant to feel towards a place of greater acceptance, greater understanding in themselves, greater pride.

And I thought I was writing this.

This was my central theme because of my experience as a gay man.

And the characters have a lot of.

A lot of my characters share that experience.

But actually what I think now is feeling disconnected from who I am, not quite understanding the entirety of myself because of my autism and ADHD that was undiagnosed for nearly 50 years.

That has fed into that theme and given it an added layer of depth which I didn't really know about.

And actually it's probably resonated with lots of readers for that reason, even if they.

Even if none of us quite knew what was going on, you know, I mean, people have said to me, oh, Albert Entwistle has to be autistic.

Other people have said to me, danny Baxter in One Love must be adhd.

I think both of them are probably true.

But what I would say is I probably couldn't have written either book unless I was, you know, I mean, it remains to be.

I kind of understand now how my brain works and I'm hoping that will make writing easier but.

And better.

But it remains to be seen whether I want to.

I think I will in, in the future, create characters who actually are openly autistic and adhd.

Because what's interesting is I can't give you examples because I'm knackered at the moment.

My cat woke me up at 4 o' clock in the morning.

My dog did.

What was your dog doing at 4 o' clock in the morning?

We've got a fox in the garden.

So he wanted to go and patrol.

Oh, my God.

So do we.

And it's the size of an Alsatian.

Massive.

You want to see this one.

We've had scrawny ones.

This one is a Whopper.

It's the size of an Alsatian.

I'm frightened of it.

And this is the period, Helen, we're recording this in October, finally, September.

October is when they find their territory that they're going to come back to all through the winter.

So you've got to get the horse pipe on and scare them off.

Well, we've just had this, such a random.

We had a badger in August who was driving Roddy crazy.

The kids quite liked it.

It's quite cool to see it on the camera.

But now the fox is here, so I'm like.

It feels like sort of.

I don't know what those, like little.

I can't think of the name of them.

The Bramley hedge in our garden.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We.

I used to love those boats.

I do anyway, because I'm so kn.

Because the fox and the cat, who's an old lady, woke me up being sick.

She woke me up being sick, even though she had an anti sickness tablet rammed down her throat.

She woke me up being sick and then the fox woke us up again.

So I'm knackered.

But that's why I can't give you examples.

But there is a trend now, particularly in TV drama, where they have characters who are so obviously autistic and they're playing them as autistic, but it's never mentioned.

And kind of.

There was that Australian drama Frisk.

There was some crime thriller recently.

Was it called Patience?

I can't remember.

There's quite.

I can't remember whether that one was.

But there's.

There's.

Anyway, there's lots where they have autistic characters and I thought that's kind of like J.K. rowling saying after the fact Dumbledore was gay.

Actually, if it's not going to be in the actual text, you're not doing anything to raise awareness and overcome stereotypes.

You're just saying it to get the kind of diversity points.

So I will deliver and at some point you can hold me to this.

Being from a neurodivergent family, I will do it at some point.

It's that same thing, isn't it, that come out, come out, you know, if you're going to put these characters in, like, let them be obvious to people and people learn from them and understand them and love them for who they Are.

Yeah.

Totally brilliant.

Well, I will look forward to that one, too.

Look at me.

I'm like, I want all the books, Matt.

Keep them coming.

Keep them coming.

I will.

I'm gonna have to test you here, Matt, because in my notes, I realized I haven't put all the authors down.

So you're going to need to be on.

On the ball here.

So when we recorded, you talked about the five books that shaped your life, and they were the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which was one of mine too.

Kiss of the Spider Woman.

Manuel Puig.

Right.

Thank you.

You're going to have to be on the.

On hand for these.

Thomas Hardy, the Time Torn Man.

Was that by Claire?

No, Clare Tomalin.

Claire, an amazing biographer.

And you must read her biographies of Nellie Turner, who was a mistress of Charles Dickens, who was.

And it's called the Invisible Woman.

And it's brilliant.

And there's another one which is even better about a mistress of a king, I can't remember which King William IV, possibly.

And she had 10 children with him and then he completely dumped her and she died penniless.

She does these kind of forgotten wronged women, but she did Thomas Hardy, who wasn't a forgotten wronged woman.

But that was really good.

Okay, I'll check those out.

Then we had the Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller and One Day by David Nichols.

So how does that list stand with you today?

Would you swap any out or.

Because it's Christmas and I'd be nice if you could add one more in.

Is there one that you would add to that list or are you happy with it as it is?

I'm actually happy with it as it is.

I think I feel like I need to give you another one now.

No, you don't have to.

But it's all right because I'll give you some recommendations.

Yeah, I mean, actually, when.

I mean, when I did that list for you, I did look back over my life and.

Yeah, I think that probably stands, actually.

I think that probably stands.

Well, I mean, three of them I've loved.

I haven't read two, but the three, I mean, one day I just still love.

And the Song of Achilles is just amazing as well, isn't it?

I don't think they had.

Wasn't it great?

So good.

And the music was brilliant as well.

Was it?

I loved all the music.

Yeah, it was brilliant because I fed that to the film.

Oh, the film was.

I know.

The film was really disappointing.

Yeah, the film was really disappointing.

Actually.

I was going to say something, but I'm going to stop myself because I don't like to slag off.

Fellow creatives.

I think if something doesn't work, it's not because they're a bad person.

They probably tried really hard and, you know, so it was their vision.

They saw it differently to what we did, and that's okay.

But we like the series.

Okay.

It was great.

It was.

It's brilliant.

Okay, so let's talk about what you've been reading this year.

Has there been any standout reads, anything that you've loved, would like to recommend?

I have this year.

Really enjoyed the Handmade God, the Homemade God.

Yep.

By Rachel Joyce, who I.

We've been reading each other's books and posting about them for ages and met years and years ago when I was a judge on the South Bank Show Awards and she won for the Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry, she won the Breakthrough Award.

But we'd never met since I was a writer and neither of us kind of properly remembered that.

And we met at the Women's Prize a few months ago and we had a really nice time.

She's great.

But actually what I was gonna show you is a little insight into how it works.

So, proofs.

Well, you know this Helen, but proof, she gets sent in advance.

And what then happens is they get the quotes from authors, so there's mine to go on the back of the real glossy hardback.

Oh, and I absolutely love this book.

It's about an older artist who dies in mysterious circumstances while on holiday with his new, much younger wife on an island in the middle of Lake Auto in Italy.

And all his adult children go out there to work out what happened.

And I just thought it.

Sibling rivalry has been a big thing in my life, and I thought its exploration of that theme was brilliant.

And it has an amazing atmospheric setting while I was writing, you know, a book, the Castle of Stories, with a hopefully atmospheric setting in Italy also.

So I love that also.

It's about kind of the power of art and the purpose of art, and I love that.

I thought it was brilliant.

You read that, didn't you?

And you really enjoyed it.

I read it.

I loved it.

And then I did it for my book club, and I listened to the audiobook, which Rachel read herself, and it is stunning.

It is so beautiful, the way she reads it.

And actually, at the end of the audiobook, there's an interview with Rachel Joyce and Sarah Winman.

And it's so good.

It is so good.

I want those two.

Why is it the two of them at the end of her audiobook?

Because Sarah Winman also narrated her still life.

So they talk about the experience of, like, recording their audiobook, but the two of them together, I was like, they need to have their own podcast.

They are just so interesting.

So definitely listen to the audiobook and make sure you listen to the interview at the end.

It's fabulous.

But, yeah, I love that book too.

Beautiful.

I love all her books.

And I'm excited because Harold Fry, it's coming out in the musical, isn't it?

I know.

And apparently she told me at the Women's Prize, it's brilliant.

And she's really, really happy with it.

So I'm looking forward to that.

She just reminded me.

I'm gonna make a note.

I need to book tickets for that.

Because I do absolutely wanna.

Because she invited me to.

It was on at Chichester.

I was invited to that as well.

I couldn't go.

Oh, we might have met.

Oh, I know.

That would have been fun.

I. I couldn't.

I couldn't go.

I can't remember what I had on.

So, anyway, that was great.

My.

I'm gonna do two other quick recommendations.

Yeah.

The Lighter Candle Society by Ruth Hogan.

Somebody's just told me about this.

It's supposed to be amazing.

Brilliant.

It's about public health, funerals, when people die with no relatives or friends, and they're given a basic soulless funeral.

And this group of very different people come together.

They hear about what's happening in this town, and they are all drawn together to set up a society to kind of give them a proper funeral that actually has some.

Some, you know, spiritual soul.

And, yeah, it's lovely.

I mean, it's about death, but it's also about life and human connection, which Ruth Hogan always writes about so well.

And it is still very uplifting.

I loved it.

Is it out now?

It's.

So this is my proof, but it is out now in hardback and e book and audio.

And then the other one I don't have, because I gave it to Lorraine.

Kelly, as you do.

So I went on.

Lorraine.

So Lorraine Kelly's always been.

So.

She's an author, as you know.

And I loved her first book, and the sequel's coming out soon.

I think the Island Swimmer was the first one.

And Lorraine has always been really generous and read all of my books and posted about them and given me quotes.

Anyway, I read the proof, which I've not got, although I do have this mug I've just realized was a present from Alexandra Potter.

Can you read it or does it need flipping?

I'm clever, bugger.

Yeah, she got me this as a presentation.

Anyway, she's a friend and she asked me to read the proof of her new book.

We all know she's had a massive hit with confessions of a 40 something effort and the sequel.

So I met this guy.

Oh my God, you've got to read it.

The new book, it's brilliant.

It's about this middle aged victim of a romance scammer who teams up with this feisty, ambitious young journalist and they zip across Europe trying to track him down and to confront him.

And there's two brilliant central characters.

There's a fantastic.

You know when people tell you there's a twist and you're looking out for it all the time and you can then spot it.

You will never spot this twist coming.

It's brilliant and I think it's gonna be a mega hit.

The size of confessions of a 40 something F up.

So when I was.

So when I was on Lorraine Kelly, I said to her, oh, you must read this brilliant book that I'm reading at the mom.

I posted her my proof afterwards, which is why I've not got one to show you, but it's brilliant.

So I met this guy by Alexandra Potter.

Right, okay.

And that's not out yet.

That is coming out in January, actually.

So by the time your Christmas podcast is out, it will be.

I mean, you talk about, I sometimes say pre ordering and I think you lose some people because it seems like far in the distance, but actually all it means is ordering it and it just comes through your letterbox on the day.

It's.

It's like a gift to your future self.

Yeah, I like that.

I like that.

Well, what I sometimes do is I forget and then I'll see something.

I'm like, oh, I'm going to go and pre order that.

And then I'll see.

A few weeks later, I'm like, oh, I must pre order that.

And then the day comes, I get two copies.

I'm like, why have I got two?

Oh, which is why I do the giveaways then on Instagram with the one.

Well, you need to get, you need to either get a proof or a pre order of.

So I met this guy.

I think it's gonna be the mega hit of next year.

It's out in January in hardback, so.

And I think the paperback will Be by the summer.

Okay.

Apparently the publisher's really confident in it and I loved it.

So yeah, we have really recommendations.

Well you.

I always like your recommendations.

So they all sound brilliant, well bred.

We do have similar tastes.

I always like yours.

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

So I will definitely add those and I will look forward to reading them.

So I'm just conscious we've got a little bit more time.

Just a couple of questions.

So we're going to get Christmassy now.

So Christmas is the season of giving.

If you could give somebody who hasn't read any of your books one of them, which one would you choose?

And then also I'm kind of interested if you could choose somebody to give one of your books to to who would you like to read it the most?

That's hard.

That's hard.

So I think of all my books, Albert is the one that everybody seems to.

Everyone loves Albert.

Everybody loves it and they still come to me all the time and tell me about it and everybody loves it.

I, I would.

So that's the one that I would give also.

I've been thinking about it a lot.

People quite often say to me the scene where his cat dies, which isn't a spoiler because it happens early on and it's kind of the inciting incident that sets him on his journey.

He sets.

It's about a 60 something older man who sets off to find the lost love of his life.

A man he hasn't seen for 50 years nearly since time when the world was very different for men like him.

He's secretly gay, he hasn't been able to come out because of the trauma of having this relationship the way it ended.

And I, yeah, that book really cuts through to people and I think this is gonna sound really mercenary.

The person I would give it to is I currently want to write a sequel to this book and I want to.

So I always, People always ask me and I couldn't, I didn't really have.

I didn't really have an idea and I have got an idea now and people often ask if I'll write a sequel and people are always asking about a film.

So everybody asks about a film and we did have a film deal for that book and sometimes they just don't quite happen and it didn't happen.

So I really want another one that happens this time.

So I would give it.

I'd be very mercenary and give it to the person who could make the biggest.

Somebody who could pot some celeb, who could post and give it another kind of rush of momentum and then I could get the film and the sequel off the ground is what I'd say, which is really about.

That's not really true to the sense of Christmas, is it?

That's okay.

I get it.

I'm happy with it.

If it made the movie as well, I'd be very, very happy with it.

So I know I would love that.

I would.

I would love that.

I would love that.

Okay.

And then finally, Matt, you're hosting your ultimate Christmas drinks party.

Anyone you invite, fictional or real, will say yes and they will turn up.

Who would you have at your Christmas drinks party?

I love this question.

You told me this in advance.

You told me this in advance and I thought about it and actually, I'm not going to invite Albert because he's not very sociable and he's quiet and he's a bit awkward.

I mean, he does come out of himself in the course of his journey to find his lost love, who I won't say whether or not he finds him, if people haven't read the book yet, but he's not the best party guest.

I'd have a quiet cup of tea with him.

I would invite to the party.

I would have them becoming Ted, which is about a middle aged man in a crap marriage with a horrible guy who dims his light and smothers his sparkle.

And he breaks free to finally put himself first and in particular to pursue his long suppressed dream of becoming a drag queen.

He becomes a drag queen called Gayle Force.

Love it.

So I would have Gale Force performing.

And do you remember the other queens?

There's this kind of riotous, bawdy group of queens.

There's Peg Leg, Pussy, Squat and Fanny Spank.

I'd have all them at the party.

Ted's friend, his best girlfriend, who I love, Denise, Love is her name.

I'd have her.

And then I would have the badly behaved, raucous characters from this book.

Danny Baxter, his name is.

And in this book, Charlie Matthews.

And Mike Brewer is his wild friend who drinks too much and sleeps with everybody.

So I'd have them.

And then finally I would let myself have two really fit men.

I love creating characters who are gorgeous, who everybody's gonna fancy because I can just kind of fancy them as I'm doing it myself.

So in this book it's Guy Faulkner.

Yeah, he's gorgeous.

And in this book it's the Polish painter and decorator Oscar Kozlowski.

That's who I'd have.

Drag queens.

That would be amazing.

Oh, I love that.

And you've got to come too.

I was like, I know.

Please, can I come?

Yay.

Perfect.

Make it happen.

Can we borrow Harry's castle for it?

Yes.

Well, we're actually selling it.

That's the sad thing.

We can't afford it.

Yeah.

So Harry and I mean, it's.

I mean, it's a massive privilege.

I'm not mourning, but Harry inherited it from his dad's cousin, which is where the idea for the book came from.

Oh, nice.

But it's gorgeous and amazing.

But, you know, we can't.

It costs like thousands and thousands a year.

We just can't afford it.

So we're having to sell it.

Although writing the book is my way of keeping it alive.

Yeah, in my heart.

But we can't end on a downer.

Actually.

No, we need to end on the drag queens.

Yay.

Gale 4's peg leg pussy squats and fanny spank.

Perfect.

Absolutely perfect.

Oh, Matt, it has been so wonderful, so joyous to chat to you again, so thank you so much.

It's always chat to you.

You are the only person I would come out of my full immersion.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

I honestly think I could have chatted to Matt all evening.

Isn't he so lovely?

I hope you enjoyed that too.

And how brilliant does his Christmas party sound?

I think we should all try and wangle invites to Harry's castle because it sounds like it would be one not to be missed if any of the books that Matt talked about in this episode took your fancy.

You'll find links to buy in the show notes below.

I know I always say this, but if you have enjoyed the show, I would be so grateful if you could take the time to rate, review, subscribe, and most importantly, tell your friends all about it.

Tomorrow I'll be back with another bonus Christmas episode and I really hope that you'll enjoy that one too.

Until then, thanks for listening.