Summary:

Join Dr. Jim and Dr. Jill Ries as they explore effective communication strategies in small organizations. Dr. Ries, a seasoned educator and superintendent, shares insights on fostering transparency, building relationships, and applying the ladder of inference in decision-making. Discover how open dialogue and strategic planning can bridge execution gaps and enhance team collaboration. Learn practical steps for reshaping communication cultures, even in tight-knit settings, to boost student learning outcomes and community engagement. Perfect for leaders seeking to refine their communication approach and foster a thriving organizational environment.

Key Takeaways:

• The foundation of successful leadership lies in cultivating strong relationships and fostering a trusting environment among staff.
• Employing the "ladder of inference" helps in recognizing biases and broadening perspectives during decision-making processes.
• Effective communication requires both transparency and a consideration of various stakeholders’ viewpoints to facilitate alignment on organizational goals.
• In smaller educational settings, communication tends to be immediate, necessitating thoughtful preparation and clarity to prevent misinformation.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic

00:37 Jill Ries- A Journey in Education

01:53 Building Relationships and Leadership Philosophy

05:27 Effective Communication and Influence

08:19 Challenges in a Small District

13:29 Implementing the Ladder of Inference

14:55 Practical Applications and Impact

24:11 Advice for Superintendents

29:13 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Connect with Dr. Jim: linkedin.com/in/drjimk

Connect with CT: linkedin.com/in/cheetung

Connect with Dr. Jill Ries: linkedin.com/in/jill-ries-phd

Music Credit: Shake it Up - Fesliyanstudios.com - David Renda



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We know what happens when that doesn't occur. There's often an execution gap that comes out of that in today's conversation. We'll tackle how to create transparency and decision making. So you have more agility on the front lines. So who's going to be guiding us through this conversation? Today we have Jill Reese, who is joining us, and she's had over 30 years in the education space.

And finally superintendent Jill, welcome to the show.

[00:01:22] Dr. Jim: Looking forward to having this conversation with you and and sharing your perspective. I think before we dive into the the conversation and specifically focusing in on how you build transparency and clarity in decision making, I think it's important for the listeners to know and understand a little bit more about you.

So why don't you share with us some of those key moments in your life. your career that helped shape your leadership philosophy and how that connects with how you show up as a leader today.

There were many teachers in the department at the time that had been in the district and in the department for a number of years and had kind of been set in their ways. And he encouraged me actually at that time to help them break out of the mold a little bit help them begin to share their tools, their items, their lesson plans.

Honestly, it came down to that. And that we could be a more collaborative art group in terms of the district, because there were about 50 art teachers at the time in the district. And just work together, and that was instrumental. In addition, I had a principal at the time who just had an interesting way of making decisions, and I learned probably more from him at the time about things not to do in decision making, but helped me then discover what I needed to do in my own.

[00:03:21] Dr. Jim: One of the really interesting things about what you mentioned was your comment about there are some people in the organization when you were an art teacher that was set in their ways. And the reason why it caught my attention is that when I think about any sort of leadership role. Leaders come into organizations and you have frontline staff that might have been there for a while and they could have a tendency to just wait you out.

[00:04:02] Dr. Jill Ries: the building block for this, in my mind, is starting with relationships. And it's starting with relationships at the ground up. I'll give you, go back to the example I was sharing about working in the art department. I was by far the youngest teacher that joined the art department at that time.

And for me, it was about building relationships with people that had experiences that had a knowledge base that I didn't have, but also then building a relationship so that I could then share some of the knowledge I was bringing as a brand new teacher and some of the. Like strategies and lesson plans and things I was bringing as a new teacher, I would not have been able to be successful at that or be able to do that if I didn't take the time to get to know the person and develop the relationship with them first.

And the high school teacher said, so this is Pavlovian now, correct? And I said, no, that's not what I meant. But I had to really rethink even my language on it, too. Because I didn't mean to be guiding people in a certain way, but influencing people in a positive way that we could, like I said, build a bond together and then move forward together in the work that we were doing.

The language that we use can influence people in good or bad ways. And that particular example that you mentioned is one instance where a specific Language that you use impacted somebody in a way that you didn't intend. What are some of your suggestions when it comes to using language and exerting influence in subtle ways to make sure that you're moving people in the right direction without it creating a lot of friction?

So I, I took some learning from that, right. And thought, what are, how can I communicate differently or. Pre planned communication, so to speak, so I'm communicating the way I want to. One of the things that I've come up with over the years, and so, in these leadership roles, you also sometimes have to have difficult conversations with people, unfortunately, it's just the nature of the beast and scripting my talking points help me stay on point and help me focus the conversation in the way [00:07:00] that it's intended to be focused. So, I always tell people if I'm scripting and that I have, I have a script or whatever, and sometimes I even share it with them too because like I said, oftentimes when those difficult conversations.

Come about they're easy to get off track, not only by yourself, but by the person you're having that conversation with. So scripting in my mind has been super helpful in guiding the conversation.

So I don't necessarily think of that from a scripting perspective. I think that's just more of a. Either role direct role play in your head or [00:08:00] just preparing for the conversation based on the audience and the message that you want to get out. Switching gears a little bit. I think one of the things that's going to be helpful in this conversation, when we're talking about communication is getting a line of sight into the district that you're in and what that lands district landscape looks like .

So this district though, brings its own set of challenges being as small as it is because. There is a very cohesive group but the expectations are a very certain way, and because that group is very cohesive and collaborative and professional, they also want things delivered to them in a certain framework [00:09:00] in a certain way.

And so coming into that was a great learning experience for me because this is the smallest district that I've worked in over the course of my career, but also then making a point to understand the climate and the culture and build the relationships and, and take care of those things. So we could move forward with that small, cohesive group.

I think it's important to note that no matter if you're in a large setting or a small setting, those same principles apply.

It sounds like you had to deal with some of that when you came into the district because you just mentioned that people are used to doing things a certain way. So before you start [00:10:00] impacting how things were done. What were the steps that you took to create the space for them to actually hear a potential alternative to the direction that that they're used to?

And so just having that opportunity for people to be heard and to have conversation was my start to building the relationships with the staff in the community here. I also, I, I monthly run superintendents chats for the community. So I build those relationships with the community also, and I do the same with staff too.

And I run those monthly chats with staff.

I would make the assumption that, Hey that's a, that's an easier task to accomplish in a smaller footprint. When you look at your effort at getting everybody on the same page, how did you tackle that?

Some of it was to do some planning for staff in pay. And those items also inform the work and help to build bridges with people. I think part of it is strategic planning, honestly, at the ground [00:12:00] level. So it's not only looking at building the relationships, but then building in a strategic plan with strategic initiatives to carry the work forward.

And so the board and the community and I and the staff all work together to create a new strategic plan. And then those, that plan is also aligned with school goals. And the goals that teachers then drill down into their classrooms. So, some of it is, honestly, this is an old thing, but having all the arrows point in the same direction versus all over the map.

[00:12:51] Dr. Jill Ries: Part of it with committees and work, and you are absolutely right. We all wear many, many hats. We do all kinds of different things. And [00:13:00] I'll give you an example. I was serving lunch the other day because somebody in the cafeteria was out, you know, so we all put on a different hat and we do what we need to to get the work done.

So really, it helps to give myself guardrails that I can then [00:14:00] transfer to teams. And one of the things is I do, do believe that as adults, we all have bias. We all have certain understandings. We've all been raised in certain ways. So we bring different understandings and ideas to the table. And part of that is looking at the system for clarity.

And for transparency and understanding where, like, if you are looking at a certain set of data, and you're looking at observing it through a certain reality, the determination of the actions and beliefs that come out of that are going to be a certain way. And so, if you understand the ladder of inference, and you look at it, and you say, this is my set of data.

Now, what if I look at it this way? Or what if I approach it this way? Then your actions and beliefs are going to come out differently. And one of the important things about that is taking multiple perspectives.

[00:15:00] Dr. Jill Ries: One of the things that we have in districts in Wisconsin is employee handbooks. And that came through some contract revision and negotiation stance that was put forward by the state. So, with our handbook, our handbook hadn't been revised in quite a number of years. And so, I took on the handbook revision by looking at several pieces of data we had in the district.

And when I looked at the several pieces of data, I had some certain actions and conclusions that I drew from that data. Where I thought we could make some changes in the handbook. Most of it was around, like, staff absences, substitutes staff days off, things like that. I had taken my thinking through the ladder of inference, but I was taking it in a certain light, to be frank.

And note that this handbook gets approved by the school board, so I did also share the data and information with the school board and help talk it through with them, too, because they also had different beliefs and conclusions that they drew from some of the data that was shared with them and some of the handbook feedback that was shared with them through staff.

So, it's re it was really important for me to take my beliefs through and my data through the letter of inference several different ways and several different times to get to the point where I could understand where staff was coming from and make a decision that would be palatable and workable for the staff and for the district and for the school board.

[00:17:18] Dr. Jim: So when you describe all of that, I think the area that's catching me by surprise is that you're doing this within a smaller organization. I wouldn't think you would have these sort of, communication challenges with an organization that's that's a small as it is. So when you look at putting the ladder of influence and inference into play.

Why is it particularly helpful in a smaller organization?

And that's not bad because I'm not, not open to change. But it does create different levels of work. And so, I'm open to doing that and I'm open to revisiting things. But the truth of the small organization is that communication happens almost instantaneously.

[00:19:04] Dr. Jill Ries: So, it's interesting that you say that because I, I probably had four or five revisions before we got it right. There is some truth in the fact that you have 1 chance to get it right, but that goes to the, the flexibility of the organization and, i, I guess it is that it's the flexibility of the organization.

It's important that from my lens, it's important that people know that I will be transparent and take feedback to possibly retool and bring out another example or bring forward another charge, because having those four or five revisions to the handbook and to what people had concerns about showed that, but.

I believe that happens in a smaller organization, maybe even more than it happens in a larger organization. Because of the tightness of the communication channels.

So how did you deal with that sort of pushback when people are realizing I used to know about this sort of stuff and now I'm closed off from it. How did you deal with that without creating hurt feelings because they're feeling left out at this point?

But that is something that has to be built over time and built with some specific strategies, or it won't take hold.

[00:21:16] Dr. Jill Ries: So, I believe in being having an open door, being fully in front of people and being transparent. And we had a situation where we had gone through negotiations for teacher salary very, very late. The first year I started and we went through a negotiation conversation and people were very unhappy.

So we had happened to have a staff meeting the next day and I just, I knew people were unhappy and I wanted to hear what they were unhappy about. So I stood for 45 minutes in front of staff and just said, tell me what your concerns are. And so we just openly talked and I took down the concerns .

I'm here to listen.

So how did you balance out the request for feedback? With the understanding that not every bit of feedback is going to get acted on in terms of a resolution,?

So just being clear with people about the, the sort of division between those things. Like, there are things, I've been clear with them that I will come and ask for feedback and talk to you about. There are things that I cannot do that on. And there are things that go through the board and that are board decisions that happen because they're board decisions.

And just being straight with people about not trying to not be transparent with them, but there's things that can't be shared.

So you have tighter communication that is more effective. How would you framework this out?

Honestly, I hired a new principal in this whole last couple of years, too, and bringing in a new principal who understands school goals and understands school improvement and school processes and bringing that person in to align. The arrows again and bring in the processes and practices that we need.

So for me, it's about aligning the practices from the district, but then also aligning the practices from the school to connect back to the district strategic plan. And all those things in my mind make the connections go in the same direction.

[00:25:56] Dr. Jill Ries: I try to be transparent and take feedback. So I get [00:26:00] positive feedback from people in the trenches on this. But also we've seen a shift in our student learning and a shift in our increase in our student learning outcomes, which is at the bottom of the end of the day what we're really about.

So we've seen a positive shift in that. And in terms of parent communication and community connections, we've seen. A shift in some areas up in some areas that we still need to work on, but we gather data every year on that. So, I have an understanding of where we need to continue working.

Based on what you've done through your career, what are the key things that they need to keep in mind as they try to implement the ladder of influence and influence within their district?

So part of the beauty of using something like the ladder of inference is it helps you, gives you the opportunity to take your thoughts and your ideas through the ladder of inference and look at different sides of an argument. And one of the things that I've noticed is we have people all over the map on, on opinions, decisions, things like that.

And so I would just advise people to really take a serious look at it, because I do believe that when you do that, it helps you grow your own practice. The other part is for the district. As you practice those traits and you practice learning through the ladder of inference, sharing with people what you're doing and why you're doing it.

And I think that is really crucial to helping the organization also understand that and start to do that work. Now, again, as I've talked a lot about relationships and transparency and those pieces, those are part of not only building up the ladder of inference, but just good practice that help to communicate with people on a level where you can bring forward something like the ladder of inference.

[00:28:59] Dr. Jill Ries: Really, it's [00:29:00] probably my email. If you want to connect with me in terms of the school, we also have a very robust district website and access to myself through the website and through our reception office

The big lesson that stood out to me is that there's a lot of elements of stoicism that takes that are built into this approach that you're talking about. When you're talking about building relationships, looking at data and also, I Seeing how that data impacts multiple people from different perspectives, the key thing and all of that from a you perspective is that you have to disconnect in a lot of ways from your reaction to what is being said and try to incorporate that as objectively as possible.

Emotional when you apply your own biases to it. So that's what I took away from this conversation For those of you who've been listening to this discussion We appreciate you hanging out if you like the conversation make sure you leave us a review on your favorite podcast player if you haven't already done so make sure you join our K through 12 leadership community. And then tune in next time where we'll have another great leader hanging out with us and sharing with us the game changing insights that helped them build a high performing teams.