Interview with Gretchen Winkler about The Knight School Journal and the Cyberhawk Universe, and a creepy discussion of modern information gathering using everyday items.

Hosts: William Sikkens, Bill Snodgrass, and Gretchen Winkler

Welcome to

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User Friendly 2.0 with host Bill Sikkens,

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technology architect.

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And this is User Friendly

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2.0 I am your host Bill Sikkens

and joining me Bill and Gretchen.

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And how are you doing this week dude.

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All right

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okay.

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Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it.

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I want to ask you that again, Gretchen.

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Hopefully it'll go well,

but we are going to be interviewing you

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a little later in this segment on Cyber

Hawk, which is now out.

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So, hopefully you're ready for that.

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So we'll see how that goes.

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Coming right up your second half,

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we're going to be talking

about some creepy stuff

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about all the things

that might be watching you.

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So it's going to be worth

listening to that too.

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But before we dive into any of these

signs, let's go ahead and jump into

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this week's news.

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All right, all seasons of

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canceled NBC reboot to stream on Netflix.

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Yeah, so this is referring to Night Court

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going to be streaming on

Netflix beginning next month.

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And honestly,

I don't know why NBC canceled it.

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I like the original version of Night

Court, and this one seemed pretty cool.

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What little I've seen of it.

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So yeah, yeah, this is one of the nice

things about having streaming services

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like this is because a lot of things

that wouldn't get out there

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that are decent, but for whatever reason,

usually behind the scenes get canceled

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or changed or whatever you can still get

to, which is kind of cool.

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Something about new media that I like.

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So yeah, it's going to be coming up here

on February 3rd is when it starts.

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I don't know if it's all going to drop

or if it's going

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to drop a little bit at a time, but we

will find out and let you know when we do.

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Quantum entanglement speed is measured

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for the first time,

and it's too fast to comprehend.

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So this is an interesting topic.

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And Gretchen,

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when you do the research,

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sometimes I think you're coming up

with things to try to see if

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if you can explain them,

if we can't, you know,

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so, all right, so

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quantum mechanics and all the stuff

that gets goes along with this,

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you know, stuff being a scientific term,

I think for some of these science,

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it's interesting to see because,

quantum physics, like in Star Trek

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The Next Generation, they talked about it.

It was sci fi.

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It was a theory at the time.

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And now we're able to prove things.

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So to talk about this

a little bit in the time I have,

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we need to talk about

a very small segment of time

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that is very,

very difficult to understand,

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which is one billionth of one billionth

of a second or a nanosecond.

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And what this is talking about is a mode

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where a substance,

there's different words for this,

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but just for a brief explanation,

the substance is in a certain state,

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but the state is duplicated

in two different physical locations.

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So when you change it in one place,

it changes it in the other.

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And it doesn't matter how far apart

physically these things are.

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I can think of the top of my head

and some interesting technologies

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that you can create or something

like that.

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Now, being able to measure this,

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especially in this kind of a time frame,

is something a little bit subjective.

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And one of the other things is, quantum

physicists have still not been able

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to figure out the origin point

of these two different things.

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So, again,

quantum entanglement, it's a phenomenon.

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It's something that's actually starting

to be provable now.

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I think the best way to sum

this up would be to think about

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if you had two coins and you flip one,

and the other one always does

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the exact same thing,

even if it's a distance away.

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So kind of a, you know,

10,000ft view way to look at this.

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Okay.

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I'm just kind of curious to see,

what, what you are going

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to how you're going to explain that.

All right.

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VR gaming system

with all mobility debuts.

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I thought this was really kind of. Yeah.

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And this is something straight

out of Ready Player One.

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Anybody that hasn't seen that movie,

it's worth the watch.

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You're on a platform

that spins and turns for your VR headset,

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and, it has some safety features

so that you don't fall

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off the platform,

which is probably a very good idea.

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All I can say to

this is I want one like now.

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Yeah. You did. It

looked cool. I'll put it.

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You know,

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it's modern technology

and I'll put it in between my Pac-Man

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and my Wizard of War arcade cabinet

to have a little bit of diversity.

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NASA launches

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research program

for students to explore big ideas.

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Yeah,

so NASA does these different programs,

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and it's a challenge for students

to get some prize funding for things.

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But also have a chance to be able

to interact with NASA, people from there,

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sometimes even facilities

and that different type of things.

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And what this is talking about here

is, a research program

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that has two different directions,

and it's called orbit

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Opportunities and Research business

innovation and technology.

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I would not want to have to be

the person that makes up these acronyms

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and then have to figure out something

that actually means them.

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As you can

tell, that's happening sometimes. Anyway.

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So this is something where basically

what they're challenging university

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college students to do

is develop next generation solutions

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that would benefit life on Earth

and in deep space exploration.

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It has a prize of up to $380,000

in total funding.

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Now, one person

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is not going to get divided into teams,

and there's a whole program for that.

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There's two tracks that go along with

this one called the Earth Track,

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which requires a team

to select a NASA owned patent and develop

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commercial or nonprofit applications

addressing real world problems from that.

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So this could be a lot of different

things,

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from natural disasters to health care

and so on.

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The other track,

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which is the space track, is one

where you get to look at concepts.

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You want to look at concepts

that are aligned with NASA's current

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and future missions.

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So going back to the moon,

Artemis would be a program

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that's an example of this.

Eventually Mars and so on.

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Either direction

you go, it would be something fun

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to be able to participate in.

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And we will have the link on our website

and our social media

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go dot nasa.gov and you can go there

and just search for the orbit program.

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And we'll have the direct

link out there for you.

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Lucasfilm reverses course,

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suspends future manned oversight plans.

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Tell us about the right women.

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First,

I want to say because this question comes

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in, I still don't have enough data

on Kathleen Kennedy.

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We will give you that when we do.

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We haven't been able to here

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has been somewhat tight

lipped about that at this point.

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You know, again, if when you hear it's

come out, it's a couple of days away.

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So we'll see what happens here.

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But anyway, what they're talking about

here is the Amanda verse was something

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that was kind of a focus and has been

for Star Wars The Mandalorian.

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Of course, there's a movie coming out.

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There's a number of spin offs

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that kind of go along with this

that are in the same season.

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Now, Gretchen,

you would be more able to speak to that.

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It's episode six and seven.

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I think that this mainly is between

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I don't

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know, I you

know, I don't know what it's referring to.

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Yeah. That's that's what I've been here.

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What they're trying to wedge it

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into a certain timeframe

within the Star Wars universe.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's

where they ended up going.

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You know, again,

I am not the expert on that.

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But anyway, what they're talking about now

is that they are shelving

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that idea, or at least

pausing it to continue going on.

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Mandalorian and Grogu

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are still being talked about, the movies

coming up, and I think there's another,

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season of Ahsoka

that's either out or about to come out.

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It hasn't come out okay.

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I've been waiting for it.

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That's that's this year, I think.

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Anyway, outside of that,

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they're kind of pausing things

and looking at some other stuff.

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There's a new Star Wars movie.

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I mean, later this year, you know,

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So maybe they're focusing

a little bit more on that now,

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but it'll be interesting

to see where this all goes.

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And if there's changes in management,

this could also affect this directly.

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You know, as far as,

as far as all that's concerned.

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All right.

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Well, we've got something

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that's sort of different

and not different today,

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and that is that

we're going to be talking to an author.

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That's the part that's not different.

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We have had a lot of wonderful authors

on the show over the years,

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and it's amazing

to check out their experiences.

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But today we're going to be flipping

the script here a little bit,

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and we're going to be talking to Gretchen.

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So Gretchen, you normally are our co-host

and still are, but,

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today we're going to be flipping this

around a little bit

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and asking you

some questions on your book.

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How does that feel? Ooh, okay.

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Woo hoo!

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I guess that's a good enough answer.

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I already promised you

I wouldn't be Korben Dallas.

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And,

that's a character from The Fifth Element.

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Yes, yes.

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No, I know,

but but not everybody does, so.

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Yeah, that'll be great.

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That means that we'll probably be able

to actually fit this interview

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in the time slot for the show, which is,

which is, you know, a positive thing. So.

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All right, well, let's go ahead and start

kind of at the beginning of this.

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For listeners who may not know it yet,

how would you describe yourself

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as an author and what kinds of stories

are you drawn to telling?

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Well, let's see,

I like stories where the reader

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is taken on a journey by the characters

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so that you

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think you're reading along and,

and the characters take you

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on some kind of, journey,

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whether it's science fiction, fantasy,

or maybe even a mild mystery.

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I'm not a mystery writer, but sometimes

I'll put surprises in my stories.

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And,

I want you to go along with the character

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and just, you know, experience

what they're going through.

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You know, it's interesting

you say that we're going to dive into this

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a little bit more here in just a second,

but I know some of the reviews

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we're already seeing

is that your stories have depth

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as a comment that, is being made a lot.

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And I think that's a positive thing.

Obviously.

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So we'll we'll circle back to that here

in a little bit.

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But let's go ahead and talk about this.

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Now, we've talked about cyber hockey

before obviously on the show here

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and kind of discuss the process of

getting to this point as you were writing.

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But let's go ahead and talk about

the cyber hockey universe.

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So I don't think

we've ever actually focused on this.

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What kind of a world is that

and what are the readers stepping into?

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Okay, Cyber Hawk,

I would say it's contemporary,

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but it's, it's a positive contemporary

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where it's science fiction and,

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you know how Star Trek had a positive

bent to it with the tech?

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That's where.

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Yes. Yeah, yeah.

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Original Star Trek. Okay. Next.

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And so okay, so,

that was that positive idea

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of how technology can be beneficial.

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But there are undertones in my stories

that, make it

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perhaps science fiction,

a little bit of fantasy.

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There are some scary moments.

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So it's kind of hard for me to decide

where does it really fit in?

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It doesn't seem to fit in one one box,

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which actually

probably makes it more interesting.

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Now, you released a year ago,

a little over a year ago, a novel letter,

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which was basically a little tiny

short book that was just establishing

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some of the characters and there was a lot

more interest than we expected into it.

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But your first book

that you've actually put out,

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this full length is a book

called The Night School Journal.

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And this is something that,

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I know from my own standpoint,

you've been writing for a long time.

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It feels personal

and intimate when you read it.

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So I'm going to ask you two questions.

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What inspired you to tell this story,

and did it always fit in the cyber hack?

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Okay, I'll answer the easy one first.

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It was not originally meant

to be part of cyber Huck.

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Okay, let's see.

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Why did I write it?

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Well,

I belong to an organization of knights,

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and there's not a whole lot

for us to do here in the United States.

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And one of the goals

that you and my husband

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had always thought

that education was super important.

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And I wanted to describe my ideal school

or knights.

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And I thought, it's going to be boring

if I just write up

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like a business type thing.

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Nobody's going to read that.

They're not going to remember that.

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And everybody knows about Hogwarts

from the Harry Potter universe.

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So it's like people talk about it,

they remember it.

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So why don't I tell the story,

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about a school for knights?

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And,

the reason why it feels very personal

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and intimate is because what I did

is I took,

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the experiences that I observed

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from my husband's life as a child of,

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divorced parents who did not divorce

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friendly, they hated each other.

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So I took my experience

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and observations from what he went through

and put it into the story

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so that there was something interesting

going on while

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I'm describing the school,

and it just kind of went from there.

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Okay.

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Now, when

we started, you were talking about picking

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with your characters,

taking, readers on a journey.

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What emotional journey?

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What journey in general

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do you hope the readers go on

when they read the Night School Journal?

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That let's say that

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not everything is as it seems.

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Be open to learning, be open to change.

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And that maybe as you investigate

the world around you,

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you might discover

that there is something more going on

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in your life, or maybe in the lives

of the people around you.

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It's a growth story.

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And so what are you writing now?

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First of all, I'm gonna ask you,

how long were you working on that?

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Because I know this one

went a little longer than most.

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And was there a moment

while you were working on it

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that you kind of realized,

hey, this is working?

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Let's see.

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Alright.

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It started like many years ago.

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I think it was about 2012.

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And I warned people in the book,

that it's set in a time,

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technology has changed greatly

since when I wrote that story originally,

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and it was just something off the cuff,

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and I hadn't really planned it.

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And,

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wow, now I just forgot

where my train of thought was.

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Remind me, what were you wanting to know?

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Or basically at what point,

you know, during this process.

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And I already knew

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you had started a number of years ago,

which is why I ask a question that way.

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But during that time, was there a point

where you were, you know, said, hey,

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this is actually going to work out

as a book or, you know,

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I think we're going in the right

direction.

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I oh, I really didn't know.

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And I did something that I never do.

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It was, a seat of the pants type book.

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I just started writing, and I,

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we defined that it's

somebody who doesn't plan.

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They just sit down and start writing stuff

and no outline.

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No. Okay. And that's not me.

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I at least I was smart enough

to write down

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the descriptions of the characters

I always keep, like,

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a spreadsheet

or a notebook with the characters

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and,

descriptions of them, personal attributes,

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relationships,

so that I can refer back to them.

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So this I,

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I just kept enjoying the story,

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but then I wrote myself into a corner and,

I couldn't go any further.

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So that was the reason

why it took like ten years to finish.

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So, yeah, the name of the book

is The Night School Journal.

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Is it actually written as a journal? Now?

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Yeah, yeah.

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You know,

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because that's a definitely a question

that you would look at at the title.

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It does create a, strong connection

to the character, a character sorts.

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And that type of a thing

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that this change the way

you approach the character development.

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Now, I know

you said you wrote it off the cuff,

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but you've written other things,

so how would it compare?

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Well, this one's told from mostly.

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I wanted to give it

from a child's perspective.

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You know, he's Kyle, is he?

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He's not a little kid,

and he's not yet a teenager.

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He's in that in-between stage where,

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you know, he'll see a pretty girl

and think, oh, she's really pretty.

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Why am I thinking about her?

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Let me go get my comic books.

You know, he's right.

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So I try to describe the world

from the way

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he would see things, his parents actions.

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He hated being waiting for

to hear from the school.

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And it drove him crazy.

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And it made him bored,

and he was restless.

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And I wanted you to experience

that boredom

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and restlessness it while he was waiting.

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So hopefully,

hopefully I was successful in that.

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I have to see what the

what the thought is.

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The book is available now.

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It's just been published.

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As we said

earlier, Syracuse.com is the website.

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You can also find it at Amazon

or at user dot show in our shop.

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So that's book number one.

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Let's move on

and talk about book number two,

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which is actually the first one

in the Cyber Hawk series, if you will,

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from my understanding,

called Rise of Heroes.

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And it's a different feel.

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Very different feel when you read the two,

do you see

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a compliment in the Night School Journal

within the same universe?

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And let's talk

just a little bit about that.

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I don't know.

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I just felt like they were both,

like, set in the real world

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where I do with quotes around there,

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because there is science fiction

and fantasy elements in it.

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And, they just it just seemed

why not bring these characters in?

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I had originally hoped to do,

the Night School Journal is a trilogy,

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and I lost the ability to do it,

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and I liked some of the characters

that I had started to develop.

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So I thought, why not?

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Why not bring it into the cyber

hawk universe?

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Okay.

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I mean, that sounds,

you know, amazing to me.

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And it does work, by the way,

a spoiler alert

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on that for anybody that when you read it,

you'll figure that out.

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Let's do a little bit behind the scenes.

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What does your writing process

actually look like?

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Are you a planner?

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I know you said you

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didn't do that for Night School Journal,

but for the others you do.

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Do you plan on

do you discover the story as you go?

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Some combination? How do you work that?

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Let's see,

I would have to say I'm a planner,

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but I plan loosely with basic concepts

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and if I have something that goes off

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or off of the main story or off of it,

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I will like, evaluate it thinking, okay,

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is this going to add to the story

or is it going to take away from it?

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So if I feel like it's going to build

and give more depth to the story,

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I will keep with that, you know, side

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side story or side development.

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So I'm basically a planner, though.

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Okay,

I'm going to work something out at YouTube

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before we kind of move ahead here.

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Rise's heroes,

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without giving too much away, can

you give us just a synopsis of the book?

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It's an introduction to a group of heroes

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that would be a very, very.

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And there's cool technology

that's introduced.

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Yeah. Okay.

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All right,

well, we'll leave it at that and move on.

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So you have another one

you're working on right now.

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Oh, Cyber Hawk unveiled villains

will be the second one in the series.

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Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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I know you're still in the process

of creating it.

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Yeah, but,

how does that work in everything?

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Well, you gotta you gotta know who

the bad guys are in the story.

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Agree?

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If you don't know who

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they are, you're going to have a problem

and it's going to be boring.

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So unveiled villains, obviously,

by the title, I'm unveiling the villains

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so that the reader can know who are

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the cyber hawks going to be engaging with.

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And that's what

that's that's the goal of this one.

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The first book is heroes first.

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Second book is villains.

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So tell us which one was more challenging

the heroes or the villains?

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And,

what was a fun component or something

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that you think of

when you think of putting this together?

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Okay.

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One of the challenges

of developing villains

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is that

you have to think about their motivations.

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I'm not a super villain.

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I don't walk around doing

mean things to people.

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So I had to really think about

what is their motivation.

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You have some classic bad guys

from Star Wars.

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You have Darth Vader, fallen hero

who hates himself,

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and you have, Count Dooku,

another fallen hero

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who feels like he's been betrayed.

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So he's always trying to convince others

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that he went off on the dark path

for a good reason.

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And then you have, Emperor Palpatine,

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you know, Darth Plagueis,

I mean, Darth Sidious.

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And that guy is just plain evil.

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But they all have different perspectives.

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They all have different motives of

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what happened to them, why it happened.

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And so when I do The Unveiled Villains,

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I've had to really think about

what are these guys motives?

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You know, what's making them tick?

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Why do they do the things they do?

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So that's

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it's been fun, but it's it

it's, it's a challenge.

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Like we said earlier, Cyber Hawk

heroes.com is the website,

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for the series.

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And everything about it

also offers a place for you to sign up

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and get information on what's new,

kind of ahead of the game and all of that.

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So that's where you can find Cyber Hawk.

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Where would you recommend a reader start?

Should they start with the first book?

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Do they start with my school journal?

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Should they start with a novel letter?

What?

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Just tell us a little bit about that.

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You can read the Night School Journal

just by itself.

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You know, I would suggest

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getting the novella, the origin story.

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It's kind of nice because it gives a nice

preface for, Rise of Heroes.

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But you could read Rise of Heroes

by itself as well.

446

So, no,

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I don't really think you have to read them

in any specific order.

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What do you think?

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Well, I think that

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I would assume Rise of Heroes before

unveiled villains when it's out.

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I mean, yeah, progression. Right.

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You know, I agree with you.

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I think that

I think that you can read this either way.

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They do complement each other,

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but it isn't like you have to read one

before the other in order

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for the other one to make sense,

which is sometimes the case with books

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that are in a series.

And this isn't like that.

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So I would say with me,

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I'd pick up the one, you know, that

I just kind of sung out to me the best.

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And having read both of them,

that would be both.

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Yeah.

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You know, not that I have an unbiased

review here or something, but it's mean.

463

She's my friend.

464

I got to be nice to her, you know?

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You know,

466

but I look at it more from a standpoint

that, you know,

467

large companies are helping market

and that kind of a thing

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and are looking at

this is something that actually

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is something that they like

and they think is going to be good.

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So more than, you know, my opinion on it,

whatever that may or may not be worth,

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it does seem like the general reception

so far has been very positive.

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And,

you know, getting out there and jumping in

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and I think this is going to be something

great I'm looking for.

474

I haven't read Unveiled Villains yet.

475

I'm looking forward to seeing that

when the time comes.

476

I think of that in any way or like

the rest of them have, it's going to be

477

it's going to be really good.

478

Is there anything else

you want to tell us?

479

Nope.

480

All righty.

481

Well, send your questions

and your comments.

482

User friendly dot show is the place to go.

483

We are going to be back after the break

talking about some creepy stuff.

484

We'll be right back.

485

I always feel like I'm in the Twilight

Zone and I always feel some,

486

but it's fun to be and I love new props.

487

Oh, I always feel so bad.

488

Is what you mean to me.

489

Is it just.

490

We're not cool.

491

Welcome back.

492

This is user friendly 2.0.

493

Check out our website user friendly

dot show for everything user friendly.

494

Let's see how many times I can say

user friendly and under a minute.

495

Best place to go though?

496

How about user friendly 2.0 bill.

497

Gretchen, is that good enough?

498

I don't know, user friendly 2.0 user

friendly, user friendly, user friendly.

499

Anyways, let's move on from that.

500

But user friendly natural boy

a user friendly dot show is the website

501

to go finish your questions,

your comments, your ideas.

502

We love to hear from you.

503

And if you don't know the name of our show

at this point, well, that's on you.

504

All right.

505

So we're actually hitting a topic here

today

506

that has been a lot of questions

507

We touched upon this in some of our Q&A,

508

but I wanted to do a little bit

more of a deep dive.

509

And that is how everything is tracking us.

510

And where I really started getting into

this was two things.

511

I am do some expert witness stuff

and was working on something with that,

512

dealing with how phones crack

and that kind of a thing,

513

which was somewhat eye opening.

514

And one of the other things, Gretchen,

I know you and I are both considering

515

new cars, and I haven't been able

to find one that doesn't track you.

516

So from that standpoint,

we started digging into things

517

a little bit, and I just wanted to see

where this is really going

518

because a lot of the questions

that were coming in, if they're, you know,

519

valid in the information

that our listeners have is accurate,

520

which seems to be in

a lot of cases, is kind of scary.

521

So I thought we can dive

into some of the direct examples

522

of surveillance

and some of the things that are coming up.

523

And the first one I'm going to talk about

is something Ford's doing,

524

and they filed a patent for this.

525

Now, keep in mind,

filing a patent doesn't necessarily mean

526

you're going to see the technology in your

neck or truck, but you certainly could.

527

And the idea of what this does

kind of illustrate some of these things

528

where anybody wants to look it

529

We get outside.

530

That is patent number

that actually takes care of this.

531

And what this has to do is it works

with your car's infotainment system.

532

So what the pen talks about is the ability

533

for them to have a technology

that is you're driving down the street,

534

let's say your stereo and your car is off,

you're describing,

535

and you drive past somewhere where

the company has a agreement with Ford.

536

It can turn on your stereo system

and play an advertisement.

537

So that

538

already is something that personally,

I would not like.

539

Oh, I don't like that.

540

That one bit.

541

Yeah.

542

You know, it just it's it's one of

those things, but it gets even creepier

543

because another part of this patent talks

about a thing that if you are having

544

is that you have a passenger in the car,

you know, more than one, and you're

545

talking about a given subject like, oh,

you know what?

546

I feel like sushi tonight.

547

The system is listening to you

monitoring what you're saying.

548

And we'll play a commercial

for a sushi place nearby, an offer

549

to put it on the map.

550

Yeah, I started to notice that going on.

551

Just in the house.

552

Yeah, yeah.

553

You know, but in the house,

you can turn off your marks.

554

Yeah, I can talk today.

555

Really? You're smart speaker.

556

That wasn't too difficult.

557

You know, and different things like that.

558

But when it's integrated

into your vehicle,

559

this is something that has changed

in recent years

560

because it used to be if you didn't

561

like your stereo, wanted to upgrade,

you would put in a new stereo

562

all these things are

563

now built into the system,

so there's no way to really turn it off.

564

And you can't take the technology out.

565

So if

566

something like this is in there,

or if it's not in there,

567

but the car receives over the year updates

so they can add it at a later time,

568

you don't have direct control over that.

569

And most modern vehicles in fact,

570

or any of the research I've done,

I think I'm

571

sure there may be one out there

that doesn't,

572

but pretty much all modern vehicles

sold in the United States have telematics.

573

And built into that is,

if you put a map in the navigation

574

system, keep track of that

to keep track of where you go.

575

And this type of thing

creates some real privacy concerns.

576

Let's say you're going to visit a relative

in the hospital, and they want to keep

577

their medical condition quiet.

578

Well, information from your car is sent

back to the manufacturer will tell you,

579

oh, you've gone to this hospital

this many times at this time, you know,

580

during the week

and on and on and on, stuff like that.

581

And then that information that's compiled

582

is being sold to data brokers.

583

So what ends up

happening is in a lot of cases,

584

the data is worth more than the vehicle.

585

And some manufacturers are even saying,

yeah, that's, you know, a big reason.

586

Part of what we're doing out here.

587

So what is happening with

some of these things

588

is your vehicle will track how you drive.

589

You might is an example.

590

You might have a perfect driving record,

591

and all of a sudden

you get a letter from your insurance

592

company, you're raising your rates well,

593

and you get in an accident

or get any tickets.

594

No, but the information

your car sent back to us

595

said you'd stop heart or you were driving

at times that we considered

596

dangerous,

like in the middle of the night.

597

Those kind of things. And

598

I don't think I like that, you know.

599

And that also makes me wonder,

are they focusing

600

now on this data

collecting instead of engineering?

601

A terrific vehicle?

602

Well, you know, it comes down to money.

603

And if there's no money

or even an equal amount of money

604

to be made off of selling the data,

605

that's certainly becomes an issue.

606

You know,

607

are they going to manufacture

the car properly

608

or are you going to develop the equipment

to do this monitoring?

609

And, you know, with modern cars,

I mean, you have cameras everywhere.

610

You have what?

611

We were just talking about

the audio pick up

612

and the voice recognition

and these type of things.

613

And it's very easy to do this.

614

And, you know,

one of the things that was said,

615

and I get back and probably

get some quotes and say, oh, you know,

616

just don't accept the agreements

when you buy your car

617

because you have to accept the terms

and agreements for all of this.

618

Okay.

619

I wonder how much of your car

would function if you

620

didn't accept any of the agreements?

621

Yeah,

I imagine you could start it. Maybe.

622

But I get on with the radio, even work.

623

I mean, I know it's.

624

And this type of thing

625

is something

that is really building itself out.

626

And we're starting

to see different things now.

627

Another topic that kind of goes along with

this is something

628

that we're seeing called automated

or automated license plate readers.

629

We're seeing this

in a lot of different towns.

630

So this technology has existed.

631

It's not new in the sense

of an automatic license plate reader.

632

So if you are in an area that has photo

radar or, you know, red light cameras,

633

or I'm sure police cars have the ability

to do this manner on their work,

634

you drive through and it read your license

plate and, would send you the ticket.

635

You know, that kind of a thing.

636

That part of it is irritating,

637

but it doesn't have the privacy concerns

that we're seeing in other things.

638

Now, we've talked about lock cameras

in the news recently, which are these

639

massive surveillance camera networks

that are in a lot of different cities.

640

One of the

641

other things going along with

this is there's private companies

642

mounting this technology, like a license

plate reader and just driving around,

643

picking up everybody's license plate, and

that information is being sent somewhere.

644

So now what happens

is, is between that and the flock cameras

645

and some of the other things

that are out there,

646

they can get a map of where you're going,

where you've been,

647

how long you've been in a place,

you know, all that kind of information

648

without

you even knowing that it's happening.

649

And from that kind of a standpoint,

650

it I again, I can see where

this really creates a privacy concern.

651

So you have some

you know, and it's not even the police

652

necessarily that were doing it.

653

You have a private company

654

driving around a parking lot,

just getting everybody's

655

license plate numbers

and storing them and selling them.

656

I mean,

you know, that kind of a thing to me is,

657

not something

that I would consider a good thing.

658

Yeah. It's not appropriate.

659

Oh, you know, now

660

police departments and other companies

that are in favor of this kind of stuff

661

and are trying to promote are saying,

hey, you know, for crimes committed,

662

we can trace the car

that committed that crime

663

and we can watch and go

664

through the intersections and probably,

you know, catch the criminal.

665

Better.

666

And there are a few stories out,

there are probably more

667

than a few of where

this is actually happened.

668

But is the trade off of everything

about your life

669

being monitored and recorded

and sold somewhere?

670

You don't have control over where

that somewhere is?

671

I mean, I think it would be

even a little less of an issue

672

if it was going to law enforcement

and they were keeping it,

673

you know, in some secure database

or something.

674

There's problems with that.

675

But a private company having it

676

that has no real restriction

on what they can do with this information,

677

and they're able to,

you know, track all this stuff

678

and do all of these different

no expectations of ethics.

679

Yeah. That's what you're saying.

680

What about things like a stalker?

681

Yeah. You know, stalk somebody.

682

I'm going to go on.

683

And now I can,

you know, the license plate number,

684

and I can buy this information

and know where that individual is.

685

I mean, that's downright

scary when you think about it.

686

So this kind of thing

687

is creating some regulatory concerns.

688

But the law tends to be far behind

technology in a lot of different cases.

689

The next one on

this list is one where this has really

690

kind of push this ahead

a little bit too through.

691

And it's something you may have heard of

in the news.

692

It's a company called Clearview AI.

693

Now for anybody that's not familiar

with it, a 10,000ft view definition

694

of this is, Clearview

AI is a company that has built

695

one of the largest

facial recognition systems in the world

696

by automatically collecting or scraping

is the technical term for that.

697

Billions of publicly available photos

from the internet, social media, public

698

websites, image databases and so on

to create a massive database of biometric

699

face images that can be searched

to identify people using a photo.

700

Okay, so

701

what you have is a situation here

where again, you have a private company

702

and you know their arguments

well for getting pictures.

703

They're on the internet, you know,

they're already out there.

704

It's it's not private.

705

And now you take that and combine it

with some of the other things

706

that we just talked about.

707

With facial recognition,

you can track somebody's

708

movement pretty much everywhere

because you take this to the next step.

709

Most houses have surveillance cameras now,

and most of these networks are open.

710

They're sharing agreements.

711

I know with ring

you can opt in and opt out of it.

712

Although there's been some question on

about how effective opting out of that

713

actually would be, and I'm picking on

that, that one company, they all seem

714

to have these same type of things where

if the information stored are offsite,

715

then you do lose to some

extent control of that data.

716

And you take this to another level.

717

And this is where I really don't,

you know, have a problem or I really do

718

have a problem with this

and don't like it.

719

It's what I'm trying to say

is, what about minor children?

720

Their images are on the internet.

721

You have a stalker

or somebody that wants to do harm.

722

Well, they can take a system like this,

get a photo from somewhere off

723

a Facebook page or whatever,

punch it into the system.

724

And now with that

and some other very basic

725

information,

be able to look into your location.

726

There was a thing

that we did a few years ago,

727

and that was before

a lot of this information.

728

It developed where they were doing this

with a phone and just testing it out.

729

And with about three days

worth of information,

730

outsiders were able to figure out where

the child's bedroom was in the house,

731

where their desk was in the school.

You know, that kind of a thing.

732

Yeah.

733

And again, technology is agnostic,

but it's what you do with it

734

that becomes extremely scary.

735

And I look at these type of things

and it's

736

you know, you're trying to think,

well yeah, there's

737

positive sides to all of this

where you can catch the criminals.

738

And you can certainly argue

739

if you had a lost child,

maybe you could find them easier.

740

And probably that's true.

741

But again,

it comes down to without regulation

742

and the fact

that it's not just police departments

743

and stuff that are using this,

but private companies that don't have

744

restrictions necessarily

on what they can do with the information.

745

It becomes scary.

746

Now, like I said earlier,

they are starting to have some regulatory

747

pushback, and places

like the European Union in the UK

748

have very strong privacy rules.

749

In fact,

they've concluded that Clearview is

750

biometric database, violated EU

privacy rules because it, process

751

sensitive biometric data without consent

or transparency or consent.

752

You're not giving consent

753

because you don't know

that happening necessarily, you know.

754

And Dutch regulators fined the company

more than €30 million for collecting

755

images without consent and ordered

at least eight of all Dutch residents.

756

So there is starting

to be some restriction.

757

And on the UK there's some things

like that coming up, Australia and so on.

758

In the United States

there have been lawsuits

759

stating that this violates

760

state privacy laws like Illinois

Biometric Information Privacy Act.

761

There's similar things

California, New York and other places.

762

And this went to a class action settlement

763

where they agreed to provide equity stakes

plaintiffs instead of cash payouts.

764

So now they haven't been stopped

from doing this.

765

They've been hit in the wallet,

766

but they're almost certainly making

more money than whatever the fine is in.

767

In this case.

768

Yeah, we're going to give an ownership

interest of our company to the plaintiffs.

769

Well, that doesn't solve

anything other than making the players.

770

Oh, I'm going to get money for it now.

771

So, you know, I'm

not I'm not gonna fight it anymore. Yeah.

772

At least that's how I would get

kind of understand that, you know,

773

that makes it sound like they're trying

to make the plaintiffs now hope a war.

774

Yeah, yeah.

775

Part of the act.

776

So you know, they know about the look

at these different things and

777

it's just a situation where I

778

think that this is going to get worse,

probably blow up at some point.

779

You know, figuratively hopefully.

780

And then, you know,

there'll be enough pushback to actually

781

get some kind of an outcry on this.

782

And, you know, from my own standpoint,

we don't,

783

you know, present

any legal information stuff,

784

but there is certainly

a legal component of this.

785

And since laws vary from state to state,

and you know, getting some expertise in on

786

that would be beneficial in seeing

what direction this type of thing,

787

you know, it's actually going to go

or actually is going to head.

788

So I don't know.

789

So now we're looking at

our cars are cracking us,

790

our phones are tracking us,

which we kind of already know that.

791

Although the one thing I do have to say

is in especially Apple

792

on their phones,

they do lock this stuff up

793

and they do give you the ability

to opt out.

794

So does Google.

795

But what's happening is

the law enforcement is subpoenaing

796

these companies to get information.

797

So one example of that I can now talk

about is a situation where there was

798

a crime committed at a post office

or federal property, right.

799

And the person that committed

the crime was seen talking on his phone.

800

So the government subpoenaed from Google

all of the records of everybody

801

that was in about a one mile radius,

because that's about as small

802

as you can get out of this post office

at that time within a certain, you know,

803

from this to this

and to see exactly where they were.

804

So they got a list,

you know, and doing a dragnet of innocent

805

people like that is not something

that is normally allowed.

806

And I can't speak to

whether that's legal or illegal.

807

But I certainly, in my layman's opinion,

would think that it

808

probably is, and it'd be interesting

to see where that went.

809

I believe that one's in court right now,

810

but you're looking at this type

of a thing.

811

Well, what about other things?

812

You know, it's getting your house.

813

There's lawsuit

going on in Texas right now about this

814

type of thing about televisions,

smart TVs, tracking what you're doing.

815

Yeah.

816

So do they have a camera that's facing you

while you're watching the television?

817

No, at least I don't think so.

818

Although I think I might go

take my television apart

819

after recording this today

and find out for sure, but,

820

but what they are doing with the smart

televisions

821

is they're monitoring

what you're watching.

822

So part of the equipment that's in the TV

823

is able to analyze

and know what is on the screen.

824

So whether that's something

you're watching

825

through a streaming service

like Netflix or something

826

or smart apps in the television,

or even if you plug in a VCR

827

and watch a videotape of your,

you know, wedding from 40 years

828

ago, it's able to understand

and figure out what all this stuff is.

829

And then that's sent back

830

to the various companies

and used to sell advertising

831

or sold to data brokers or whatever.

832

Again,

there's not a lot of control over that.

833

And again, opting out of it,

I have an LG television.

834

It's a little bit older one now,

but it is a smart TV.

835

And after reading about this initially,

I did go down to see what

836

would be involved in turning this off.

837

Now in that particular one on that,

an easy way to do

838

it was unplug it from the internet

and take it off the Wi-Fi.

839

And there's also a way to get in there

and switch it off,

840

not accept the ingredient, agreements

and that type of thing to do it.

841

Now, of course, in doing that, your smart

TV will no longer function as a smart TV.

842

Now, I'm not that worried about that

because the input I use

843

comes from other places,

so I wasn't really using that anyway.

844

You know, a fire TV.

I'm sure that's a lot safer.

845

You know, sarcasm sign.

846

I have a funny feeling

that we were again to that,

847

and I think I might see what information

is actually being sent out there,

848

but as soon as I did

that, it wouldn't update software anymore.

849

Obviously,

all of the smart features weren't working.

850

I was still able to input.

851

One of the things

that really bugged me about

852

is it also disabled my remote

screen sharing.

853

So a lot of times I'll use my tablet

and if I'm watching something,

854

send it to the screen over,

you know, a remote thing

855

that they have set up a smart you,

an Android.

856

There's an equivalent in Apple

and that was disabled for some reason,

857

even though that's not an online thing

as far as the television is concerned.

858

And even saying, well, you know,

the tablets online, well, not necessarily.

859

I could be watching a video

that's on the tablets, internal memory,

860

and nothing's on the internet.

861

That still won't work

because it's been disabled,

862

you know.

863

So again, I ask the

864

question, like we did with the cars,

I want to buy a new television.

865

I'm going to need to pretty soon.

866

I'd like a 4k, OLED.

867

That's not a smart TV.

868

Well, you can guess what

the response to that was.

869

If I can find one.

870

I don't think they exist, you know?

871

In fact, the only way that I was able

to figure out to do that,

872

which would cost a lot of money,

is to buy something like a 4K.

873

Sign panel, you know, like something

you'd see in a store or something of that.

874

You can see the tuner in it,

875

and you could do it that way, of course,

something like that.

876

So in the thousands of dollars

where the televisions 2 or 300.

877

But then ask yourself,

why is there a price difference?

878

Because when you buy the television,

that's the token thing.

879

They're selling your information.

880

That's how in a lot of cases,

they're really making their money.

881

So I don't know,

882

what are your guys's thoughts on all this?

883

I really don't like it.

884

I mean, it's just

885

as we said, it's invasive.

886

I agree, you know,

I don't know if you take this further.

887

It's it's just something that's

going to get worse and it's reined in.

888

I think.

889

And again, you know, the argument of, yes,

890

we can solve crimes and yes,

there are some benefits to that

891

and that type of a thing

for certain pieces of this technology,

892

again, versus being under surveillance

893

and tracked all the time, you know.

894

So where do you draw the line with that?

895

I certainly don't see any credible reason

896

to save anybody that your television

should be tracking what you're watching.

897

I mean, the only potential benefit

I can see from

898

that is making money

by gathering the data.

899

Otherwise, why would it matter?

900

You know.

901

Yeah.

902

The only the only reason

why I could see anything doing any, stuff

903

like that would be the actual streaming

service going,

904

oh, this person like science fiction

or this person likes documentaries

905

and then push, you know, offer

those shows to them.

906

But, but that's the streaming service,

not the television.

907

And see,

there's still a huge difference between

908

that to the streaming service that you go

on, you know, Netflix or Amazon

909

Prime or something and watch a video

and it goes, oh, you like this topic?

910

We're going to think other things

like that topic.

911

Okay. That's one thing.

912

But like you say,

that's coming from the streaming service

913

and that's something that's a logic thing.

914

We've talked about cookies

915

and websites following what you do to give

advertising that falls more on that.

916

And it's not something that's like either,

but it's a little bit different

917

than the television actually being able

to have the logic to figure out what it is

918

that's on the screen

and send it somewhere,

919

you know, those

those are two different things.

920

And the other thing of videos

is on most streaming services,

921

you actually can turn off the predictive

things like that.

922

So it doesn't save an ad token,

and then you still get advertising.

923

It's not the advertising,

but it is more generic.

924

If you turn off your third party cookies

and your web browser,

925

you'll find that you don't,

926

you know, have it where it's following you

and that type of thing.

927

You still have some control.

928

Now they in some ways make it

very difficult to find the settings.

929

Or for a normal person,

that's not some kind of an engineer

930

to even know what to do or how to do it,

or what they're looking for

931

that's done on purpose.

932

If they really wanted to make it simple,

it could simply say,

933

do you want your website visits tracked?

934

Yes or no?

935

You know, and then you would opt out?

936

I have yet to see that. But yeah.

937

And now.

938

So it is a situation where

I think this is going to continue growing.

939

We're seeing it on video games.

940

That's another big one

941

that the television tracks, what game

you're playing and how you're doing it,

942

all that kind of stuff.

943

The game software, because most consoles

are online now, are constantly

944

sending information back to, you know,

Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo or whatever.

945

And all of these things

end up in a situation where, again,

946

they're compiling massive databases.

947

That information is worth money,

so they're able to sell it,

948

which is, again,

where that type of thing is coming from.

949

So I don't know.

950

Well, for everybody listening this week,

I would love to invite you

951

to send in your questions.

Let us know that you're listening.

952

But we already do.

953

There's no need for that.

954

We'll just go with the,

the analytics and,

955

you, you know, that's the scary thing

is, is you're starting to see

956

where that kind of thing could be possible

in the very near future.

957

Yeah.

958

That's not,

you know, you take that and then you add

959

in some of the new technologies

with AI and computing capabilities.

960

And, you know, one of the reasons to for

961

this is going back to something

like license plate readers.

962

Not so long ago, it would have been

very difficult to have computers

963

that were capable of doing that

and had enough storage.

964

You know, at one time

storage was expensive

965

and all these different types of things,

and it's very recent

966

that all of that has changed

with, you know, massive data centers.

967

I like we just mentioned that

almost infinite, infinite storage space

968

and that type of a thing.

969

And I think that's also creating

a situation where a lot of this stuff

970

has really kind of, you know, grown up,

blown up in the last year

971

or two years, three years, and again,

getting the lore behind it.

972

And changing things is starting to happen.

973

You're seeing it out there.

974

But the other thing that I have to ask

is if I go by my, you know,

975

vehicle, my Mazda Subaru or whatever,

976

and I tell the system,

no, I don't want you to share data.

977

I want to opt out of all these things.

978

There's no way that I can definitively

know that that's actually turned it off.

979

Yeah, that's a software lock.

980

And you're relying on the manufacturers

honor

981

in a way to be able

to, to know that that's the case.

982

You know, I mean,

I wonder if maybe I can put a Faraday cage

983

around the transmitter or something

under the hood.

984

I wonder if that void my warranty.

985

I don't know, you just protecting it.

986

Yeah.

987

I'm just protecting, you know, Ian Blass.

988

Yeah. Yeah

989

I don't know I, I am somebody

990

that I love technology I always have

I mean you know things like have.

991

Net navigation in the car

and even Google Maps

992

and some of these type of things CarPlay,

Android Auto, all of that kind of stuff.

993

That's one thing.

994

But all of those things,

we have the ability to turn our phone off.

995

And, you know, you can't do that

if your car has

996

that the moment you hit the starter on it,

or worse than that, all the time.

997

And, you know,

this is where this person lives,

998

you know,

because we're able to look it up that way.

999

So next week we are going to be talking

about some common sense things

00:49:04,174 --> 00:49:07,344

that you can do to help limit

that's not maybe get rid of it completely,

00:49:07,744 --> 00:49:11,014

but there are a few different techniques

that you can use

00:49:11,515 --> 00:49:15,285

to be able

to make this a little bit less creepy.

00:49:15,786 --> 00:49:16,453

Until next week.

00:49:16,453 --> 00:49:21,491

This is User Friendly 2.0 keeping you safe

on the cutting edge, User Friendly 2.0.

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and does not necessarily

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