Kasim: 00:00:11

I am honored today to have my good buddy, my business partner in

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: 00:00:16

the Driven Mastermind, the 250 million

webinar guy, or if you prefer, the

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quarter billion dollar webinar guy.

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: 00:00:23

Jason Fladlin.

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Jason, thanks for being here.

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: 00:00:26

Awesome.

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: 00:00:26

It is a pleasure, my friend.

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the way that I've described Jason

to other people it's like going to A

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schoolyard fight, knowing that your

big brother is going to show up.

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Anytime I ever have to do anything when

Jason's there, it actually, it makes

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me lazy, It hurts my growth as a human,

because I just know Oh, Jason's got this.

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Jason's going to be able

to answer the questions.

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But the amount of value I've seen you

provide, we're on a Wednesday call

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every single week together for 90

minutes and you just melt people's

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faces with the shit that you know.

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And so I'm super excited to

have you here on the podcast,

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providing value to our listeners.

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Appreciate your time today.

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If I can serve and help, then I'm happy.

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Yeah, I have no doubt you can.

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And Will, speaking of, we always like

to start off with a nugget, quick hit

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value, just so people feel like they're

getting something out of the gate and

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we're not wasting their time with banter.

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Do you have something that you

think the Perpetual Traffic

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listener would benefit from?

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I think so, yeah, the metaphor.

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It's weird, I take this for

granted, Qasim, but looking back

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at all the major record breaking

campaigns we've done, we've always

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had some sort of solid metaphor.

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that the end user could wrap their

heads around instantaneously.

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And I was just working with a

consulting client the other day, and

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we were going through her webinar,

and I'm just like, you're metaphors.

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. If you could have a metaphor here, then

everybody could understand this right now.

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Here's what happens when we're

teaching concepts to people.

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They don't know them, so it's an unknown.

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can try to teach things that are unknown

that they don't have any real experience

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with or understanding of, and you can see

how that's really hard to teach, right?

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Or we can link it to something

that is known, and then everything

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becomes much easier to understand.

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And so I was working with her

through metaphors and the rule

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set that I have with metaphors.

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Because sometimes people come

up with good metaphors, but

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then they create objections.

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So I have another client.

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they came to us with a metaphor for this

roadmap for a course, and they're like,

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these are the 10 flags you're going

to plan as you climb up the mountain.

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And I'm like, ah, I wish we could redo it.

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It's too late.

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They'd already shipped it out.

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But the metaphor of a mountain is you

could die climbing to the top of it.

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It's hard.

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So that create an objection.

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So we're always on the hunt for the

greatest metaphor that doesn't create

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objections, that's easy to understand.

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And when people say, Oh, now that

I get this, I can relate it from a

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known to an unknown and they learn

more and it's more persuasive.

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With the right metaphor.

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So my business partner and I

will spend an hour like for a

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product that we're launching on

just the perfect metaphor for it.

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One of the things that impresses

me about you so much is the amount

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of time you're willing to spend.

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You shared something with the mastermind.

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It was a week or two ago.

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You're working on a webinar and I

forgot what the ratio was, but like

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for every minute of webinar, it's

however many hours of research.

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. So the funny thing was I have about

maybe a minute in this webinar of

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we're talking about using Shopify

as the e commerce platform.

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So we're helping people to

get started in business.

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And one of the components is

the framing is storefront.

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By the way, notice I call it

storefront, not e commerce site.

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Storefront is something people are

more aware of E commerce site.

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There are many metaphor, if you will.

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And I'm thinking, how do I

present Shopify best foot forward?

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Easiest to understand.

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Somebody can accept it immediately

and not get confused by it.

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So I'm doing this research.

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And one of the articles I find in my

research was by you, remember that?

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And you had an article on like the 15

reasons why Shopify is the best e commerce

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platform or something along those lines.

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And so I'm synthesizing all of

these little bits and pieces.

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It's like a ransom note where you

cut out every little letter from a

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magazine and you glue them all together.

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I'm trying to compress that

in, and that is for maybe a

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minute of runtime in a webinar.

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for that particular thing, I've

spent 15, 20, 30 minutes just

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figuring out how I can make the very

best minute of that presentation.

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Now, Qasim, I have the luxury of doing

that, because I've been able to Build

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my business in a way where I can stay in

my unique ability as much as possible.

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Not easy to do.

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And it took me about 15 years to

figure that out, but I pretty much

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just focus on a couple things.

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The main thing that I mostly focus

on is the webinars when it comes.

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Time to block and tackle, if you

will other than that, it's, strategic

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partnerships with people who have the

best products that we can build the best

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marketing and the best funnels for them.

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So the main thing I get to

focus on in most of my working

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hours is creating webinars.

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So I have the luxury of spending 50

to 100 hours developing a webinar.

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Because I don't have to do all the

other stuff that most other people

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have to do in their business.

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Here's one more little

interesting thing for you.

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So Perry our business partner

in Driven, he mentioned about a

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copywriter called Daniel Throstle.

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And he's Oh, I think he's the best.

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So I went and signed up

for his list one day.

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This was very early on when

we just first launched Driven.

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I started dialoguing back and

forth with him a little bit.

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And I end up running an ad on Daniel's

list and I don't know if that was

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the cause of it or not, but we had

a copywriter come through because

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that was my whole thing is like

nobody knows how to write copies

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specifically for webinar funnels.

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So I'm going to train you in

the hopes that maybe I can hire

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one or two of you in the future.

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Disclaimer, I do no hiring.

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My business partner, Wilson

Matos, does all the hiring.

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I, as in the royal we

of the company, hire.

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And Will's been showing me copy lately

for this new project we're working on.

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And it's really good.

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Usually when we have an in

house copywriter named Matt has

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worked with us for 10 years.

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Who's amazing, but he's

over booked very quickly.

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So now we need outside help for copy.

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And so Will's been sending me

this additional copy and I'm

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like, this is really good.

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And he's yeah, we got a new hire.

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And then Daniel emailed me like last

week and he was Hey I heard you're

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working with this copywriter named Paris.

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And then I'm like, are we, I

just knew we had a copywriter.

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I text Will and I was

like, is that who it is?

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And he's yeah, that's who it is.

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So then I emailed Daniel back and

I'm like, yeah, I guess we are.

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I didn't even know this.

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That's how hands off I am.

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That I didn't even know the name

of the copywriter that we hired

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to write the supplemental copy.

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And I told Daniel, I

was like, I'm grateful.

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The fact that I don't have

to get hands on, that I can

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stay hands off so I can stay.

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working on the webinar, which for

this client and this particular

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project is the highest leverage

value that I could possibly focus on.

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But I do that at the expense of pretty

much eliminating most everything else

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on a day to day basis in my life.

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Have you read 10x is easier than 2x?

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Yeah, so Benjamin Hardy is a, I

would consider him a close friend.

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He sent me an advanced copy of that

even before it was released as feedback.

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In fact, one of the

people in that book Dr.

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Alan Bernard I introduced him.

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To Ben and Ben end up using him as a

focal point for that book because Dr.

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Alan Bernard pretty much is the

torchbearer of theory of constraints.

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So the book, the goal Alan is

like the shepherd of that now.

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So theory of constraints is a different

way of looking at 10 X, meaning if

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you remove this one constraint, you

could 10 X or 100 X of business.

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I try to live that ethos as much

as possible that Ben talks about,

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I'm not as brave as Ben is on it.

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I really admire him because he's ruthless.

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Cause you have to sacrifice your

80 percent to focus on your 20%,

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but then you do that, you lock it

in and you get really good at it.

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And guess what happens?

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You have a new 80 percent that you have

to sacrifice and it just never ends.

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You just continue to hone and to

fine tune into and to narrow down.

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Yeah.

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Which is razor sharp, but it's

the most clinically effective

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tool anybody's ever had.

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Yeah.

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it's a matter of, and this

is something I struggle with.

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It's a matter of how much, how big

do you want to go and is it worth it?

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So I've eased off the

gas in my elderly years.

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I'm geriatric in the internet

business, been at it for quite a while.

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And I'm like, man, I'd rather get third

or second place these days but sleep

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well at night, then get first place,

beat everybody else and feel exhausted.

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But maybe that's a temporary state.

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Second place still makes a ton

of money, but it has to work

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half as hard as first place.

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That's how I'm feeling these

days where it's just okay.

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I'm not willing to make the sacrifices

anymore that I used to make it to

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get the edge that I used to have.

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So you get your edges in other ways.

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Now, with that said, like the

biggest edge you can have in

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your business is your reputation.

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And so I'm very fortunate and

you've seen this many times, right?

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Qasim, that just who I am when I walk

in a room does 90 percent of the heavy

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lifting in the rooms that we play in.

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So a lot of my work is done

for me and that's the result

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of the input of 15 years.

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of relentless pursuit of excellence.

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Yeah.

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that's not a small statement, man.

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I have seen it.

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It reminds me of, I was listening to a

Joe Rogan podcast and I forget who he

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was talking to, but they were talking

about how once a comedian gets to a

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certain level, They actually can't bomb.

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Yeah.

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Because people go knowing,

Oh, it's Chris Rock.

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I love Chris Rock.

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I've got 15 years Chris

Rock, embedded in me.

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So anything this dude says, I'm

going to laugh at because he

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has that context to draw upon.

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And it's not that he's not funny.

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He gets to be meta funny because he

has All of that history with you, and

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I feel like you have that same thing.

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You've planted so many seeds, and

you've trained so many people.

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Dude, is it fair to say you're the most

quoted person in Alex Hormozy's book?

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Yeah, that is fair to say.

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That's crazy.

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Hormozy's, what, easily the greatest

marketer alive at the moment, and you just

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did full on Multi day consults with him.

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He consults with you, quotes you.

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Yeah, pays me too.

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It's not like I do it for fun, right?

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And get paid.

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Yeah.

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That's gotta feel pretty good though.

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When Michael Jordan comes to you

and says, hey, I need a coach.

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Yeah, I like Tim Grover and that, right?

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I'm doing the strength training.