Shownotes
Ann Ensenbach is back for her second appearance to share what's happened since moving Apex Group to the Carolinas.
The company now has multiple locations and three divisions - manufacturing machining, research and development, and military armor products.
What started as one smaller location turned into acquiring a company that was going out of business due to tariff impacts and dependency on outsourced products. Their loss became Apex's gain, allowing them to continue jobs and bring more opportunities to the area.
Ann's focus is mass manufacturing with minimum runs of 5,000 units proving that high-volume production doesn't have to be outsourced.
Five percent of everything Apex makes goes into a foundation supporting tiny homes for foster kids and scholarships for veteran groups.
We talk about culture transformation when acquiring talent, why recognition tied to money works better than public praise, how tribal knowledge and assumptions slowly kill industries, and why leaders need to understand that people who don't feel cared for won't care about company goals.
Highlights:
- How acquiring a workforce from a company going out of business requires clear communication about values and putting the right people in the right places.
- Why recognition programs that focus on cash bonuses and financial incentives work better than public acknowledgment.
- The biggest slow killer in industry lack of adaptability and tribal knowledge that assumes things can't change from how they've always been done.
- How mass manufacturing with runs of 5,000+ units can be done in America despite assumptions it must be outsourced.
- Why giving employees retirement contributions automatically regardless of 401k participation creates opportunities younger workers can't afford on their own.
Make sure to subscribe to Blue Collar BS where we talk about the real gaps between generations in blue collar work and what it takes to lead across different age groups in today's trades.
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Transcripts
Welcome back everyone to this episode of the Blue Cowler BS podcast. What's going on, Brad?
Brad Herda (:Not much, Mr. Doyle. How is the beautiful Detroit Motor City area treating you this fall season?
Steve Doyle (:I mean, it is beautiful. It's sunny. It's Friday. is Friday. It couldn't get any better for a full day. It's sunny, you know.
Brad Herda (:It is Friday. I will go with that. It's a it's a margarita. It's a margarita night before before golf tomorrow. So it's all good.
Steve Doyle (:You know it might be a little a little hot apple cider with a little something something in it that's what I'm
Brad Herda (:Little pumpkin spice latte for you, huh?
Steve Doyle (:No PSLs here. No PSLs. Maybe we just might straight, just do some straight bourbon. That's, that's more of what it might end up being tonight. So yeah. So who do we have on the show today, Brad?
Brad Herda (:Perfect, awesome.
We have a returning member of our show making her second appearance originally from episode one on one on one and in Simbac owner founder of Apex who has three different divisions in her organization. She has her manufacturing machining or side of it research and development and then also military armor and products and things like that. And last time we talked, she was in the process of working on trying to build out this
Steve Doyle (:Mmm.
Brad Herda (:community of redevelopment area in the Carolinas and now she's back to kind of give us an update as to what's all going on so and thank you for coming back
Ann Ensenbach (:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, I think. So give us an update in.
Ann Ensenbach (:It has been so amazing. I do have to say coming from the Midwest, which is where I was born and raised, coming down to the South was such an amazing treat for me. Being able to really get to know the culture, get to know the workforce, couldn't be more impressed with it. I fell in love with the Carolinas immediately.
spent some time in Georgia, actually incorporated my company in Georgia back in the day. And it's really kind of cool to be able to kind of come back close to those roots and to be able to establish it. Originally, we were going for one location, much smaller setup to begin with, and now we have multiple locations that we're acquiring and continuing to grow.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Thank
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Hey, go big, go bigger, go home, right? I mean, what's the
Ann Ensenbach (:You know, honestly, you really have to. There's just so much opportunity. And now is the time to really cease it. Workforce hasn't really been stronger in the last decade. We saw such a trend down. And now that interest and that...
opportunity is there again and we're starting to see that new revolution of industry and to be a part of that is amazing and I really think that
sticking to what we really wanted to achieve, which was a place where we can produce, create new technologies, be a bit disruptive, but continue on the traditional ways in regards to quality standards and really bringing back that American made gold standard that we held for a very long time and being a part of that is huge. So
Steve Doyle (:it.
Ann Ensenbach (:What ended up happening was...
we found a company that was unfortunately going out of business. They were impacted by the tariffs and they, like a lot of companies, and this is actually why APEC started was because of the dependency on it, were dependent on those outsourced products and it ended up being where they couldn't get that for that cost.
price point that they needed. And that's just unfortunate. We've seen it a lot. it, their loss, unfortunately was our gain. allowed us to be able to work on acquiring their workforce, being able to continue those jobs on continue those opportunities there, but also bring more jobs into the area.
It's been really great and seeing, you know, new developments come up, which means, you know, even more people are coming into the area. And if we can be a small part of being able to bring more work, more interest in that, then that's just better for everyone all the way around. It's been, it's just been a huge transformation for us. We've really grown.
Brad Herda (:So the acquisition of talent, right? I've been part, I've been on the, I've been on the, both the acquiring side and the acquired side of that equation. how have you worked on culture transformation and things? Cause I know that you have a very high expectation and a very, proud expectation of what you guys do and what, what's expected and
Not every organization has those same standards. So how have you worked that integration or that change or transformation of, of acquiring human capital?
Ann Ensenbach (:Well, really let because like I said, we were able to pull in, have the access to that workforce that was already existent there. It really comes down to having that clear voice on it and making sure that you're having that communication where everyone and the team understands that value of that position, finding the right people, putting them in those right places. And you can, as someone who has an amazing talent, and unfortunately, we've run into this where there's just so much skill set there.
but they're very difficult to work with or they make it a very difficult kind of workplace to be in and Apex is a very adaptive and very growing environment and we encourage input and insight and you you have to have
that ability to communicate that. And as long as that is clear and you keep that communication open and you say, is what we are about. We wanna make sure that we are keeping this consistent across the board. And that consistency is really where you're looking at keeping that culture there. And that's important, because when you start...
expressing what you think that culture should be and you start putting the the wrong people in those wrong places. That's when you start getting into conflict. You start getting into turnover and lost hours because of people calling in sick because they didn't want to
deal with with that type of thing and it's really paying attention, keeping that communication open and saying, hey, what is really going on and actually being there. That's the important thing is you can't understand what's going on unless you're there with it. And that's.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Did you happen to any internal champions that kind of helped solidify that culture shift?
Ann Ensenbach (:Everyone really contributes in their own way and we're still so new on it. There's a lot of rising stars and we're really, because of that, actually put together a campaign to be able to recognize those people and to be able to give, I mean, we already give a tremendous amount of benefits. We have some packages that are extremely competitive and that's important because you have to provide those opportunities where people can
Steve Doyle (:Is it?
Ann Ensenbach (:have a life outside of work, right? And that's the important thing I've noticed with my generation is finding that work-life balance and you have to find that.
Brad Herda (:Correct.
Ann Ensenbach (:as an owner of a business or as a manager of a business, you have to find that sweet spot where everyone's getting paid well, they're happy with it they don't have those stresses at home being translated into work. Because if people don't feel like you care about them and what they're going through, they're not going to care about what you're trying to accomplish with your company. And that's really, I think,
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Correct.
Ann Ensenbach (:the biggest lesson I'd like to, if anyone takes my advice, that's the one thing I would recommend is just communicate, understand who you're working with, make sure they understand you and you have those reasonable expectations being met on both sides.
Brad Herda (:So what type of, because recognition is always a sticky situation, right? Because sometimes you might make a recognition that somebody didn't want to be recognized in public. You might have folks that think, well, if you recognized him or her, how come I didn't? I worked on that project too. How come you're picking them and not her? So how have you gone through to kind of
Ann Ensenbach (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Thank
Steve Doyle (:you
Brad Herda (:develop your recognition programs because that's always a situation that many business owners, they want to, but they haven't found or they, they, they don't know enough people have been successful at it. So how have you started your process and creating success with it?
Ann Ensenbach (:Right.
Ann Ensenbach (:Well comes down to cash, comes to money.
Steve Doyle (:Hahaha.
Ann Ensenbach (:Seriously though, the one thing that people really appreciate but never talk about is money, is their finances. So when you give someone a bonus or an incentive of some sort, they get recognized, they get that recognition, but it's not something that people are like, never before. No, if you give a big prize or you're your holiday,
events and you're giving away prizes and things like that. That's one thing. But when you're talking about consistent recognition, you know, it comes down to the communication too and letting people know that their value is really recognized. But you know, it's something you won't talk to everyone about.
Brad Herda (:Are you tying that into like.
Are you tying that into like quarterly or monthly or how are you setting up the baseline for that recognition?
Ann Ensenbach (:It depends on the department. We have different goals based off of our metrics that we want to hit, based off of our key performance areas that we want to monitor. And the ones that we really want to make sure are being constantly
approached with the proper.
I guess what's the word for it? Recognition would be you start looking at your production and you want to up production and you have certain departments in your production that you really want to make sure they're hidden and you know it's a hard goal to hit. Those are the people that you focus on first and those are the jobs that people graduate up into.
Brad Herda (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:So those are the ones that you more consistently get. And then as you go, there's always people that do things that you want to recognize in each department. Every quarter is what we're looking at for every department. And then there's certain departments that need that extra boost. And that's kind of where it sits.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm hmm. Mm hmm. From all of this move and the change and everything, what would you say is are a couple positive surprises that have happened along the way?
Ann Ensenbach (:I, you know, I, yeah, that, well hey, that's a big one. You know, that's huge. That's 100%.
Brad Herda (:She got invited back to our show.
Steve Doyle (:I mean...
Yeah.
Ann Ensenbach (:The biggest surprise that I had really was with myself and a lot of the goals that I had that...
A lot of people were like, you'll never achieve that. That's not a possibility. And we've been able to do that. We've been able to prove that out. that, just the biggest slow killer, sitting is slowly killing people, right? The biggest slow killer for industry is that lack of adaptability and communication and communicating.
that flexible nature because people make those assumptions. It's natural to make an assumption that, they're not going to want to do that because they're already doing it this way. And that's slowly killing industries, that tribal knowledge.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:And you know, no one's perfect. We're going to make mistakes. It's, it's just a given and really where the character comes from and why I'm so proud of my team is recognizing that and saying, you know what? You can make a mistake and still be really, really good at what you do. And, and that's kind of the, the, the best, I think, lesson I've learned from it. And the other thing is I was able to start a foundation and.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:On the last time was on the show, talked about the transitional program and helping those who are really trying to get out of one system or another and being able to provide opportunities for that. And we've been able to do that.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:And along the way, I've been able to actually create a specific foundation. And that foundation is being set up to work with tiny homes, communities, and other programs that are just amazing for foster kids and being able to sponsor some scholarships on behalf of different veteran groups. I do want to give a shout out to the Rocky Mountain Heroes Foundation out in Denver, Colorado.
Brad Herda (:Thanks.
Ann Ensenbach (:amazing group. are working with them to be able to sponsor some kids for some different events and some projects and being able to create that and be able to get that support and being able to allocate a specific amount of APEX to that because five percent of everything that we make goes directly into that foundation and that foundation goes right back into the community and that's
Steve Doyle (:of it.
Brad Herda (:Very cool.
Ann Ensenbach (:huge for me. mean, that's why I started Apex was to be able to make a difference. And that's why I wanted to be in the largest markets and be like, how do we make the most money possible to be able to, because I have big goals. I don't do anything small. And my biggest goal is to is to have the future people that are going to be in industry.
have access to that and to be able to continue education and to be able to provide retirement opportunities that no one else has. Like we have a fund that we put into automatically for everybody. It doesn't matter if they want to participate in the 401 care or not. And that way they have a retirement started. And I wish someone would have done that for me when I was younger because...
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:When you're coming up, especially if you're going to school or if you have kids, it is very hard to say, yes, I can put this money out of my check even if someone is matching it. So we do a match for those who contribute more, but we have a minimum that gets contributed for everybody. And that just goes towards looking towards that future and setting that example.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Well, here in Milwaukee, we just broke ground last week for 200. think it's 208 tiny home project for for veterans to be in this community. right. Small, small, tiny homes plus service area. Plus those things. They don't have to go very far as a transitional point for for our veterans to to have that safe space to reacclimate and do those things. So.
That's awesome that you're participating in that too. So thank you for that. It's because it's really important and it doesn't get talked about and it needs to be talked about more. So thank you for supporting organizations like that and doing all you're doing from there. One of the things, so ironically, one of the individuals we just recorded with earlier today, she's 22 and she is a welder right now for
Ann Ensenbach (:Yes.
Steve Doyle (:you
Brad Herda (:went to welding school, started college, went to welding school and welding. And her statement was, I need the opportunity for people to give us the chance and expect that we're not perfect. Right? So, so your point of having that chance to, to fail and learn and not setting perfection expectations, even though it's a strive and it's a goal and it's a stretch, but knowing that it's, we're dealing with humans.
Steve Doyle (:I think.
Brad Herda (:is really, powerful. So keep that message very loud and clear, because I think you're going to find a lot more younger people to attract if you keep that message going forward.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:So the question I have more on your manufacturing side, your gear cutting, correct? Gear cutting, correct, on your manufacturing side?
Ann Ensenbach (:What's that?
Ann Ensenbach (:We do all different kinds, but yes.
Steve Doyle (:Alright, what's your envelope size for gear cutting?
Ann Ensenbach (:man, you'd have to ask my engineers that question. I make composites.
Steve Doyle (:No, I'm curious just with all the machining that is typically done overseas or south of the border, right? Several of our audience typically are looking for those newer companies out there to help support in some of their gear cutting and gear manufacturing. So I was just curious to see.
Ann Ensenbach (:Right.
Ann Ensenbach (:Well, our biggest focus is mass manufacturing. We want to be able to provide an opportunity for those companies that need large quantities of stuff. And normally that's the stuff you get sourced in. It's simple parts, just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:You
Mm hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:And that's why we ended up getting so much space was because we want to provide that mass manufacturing opportunity. So really as a contract manufacturer, if the quantity is there, we'll do it. We have a minimum part run of 5,000 units. And that's small parts to really, really, really, really, really big parts.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Brad Herda (:Hahaha
Ann Ensenbach (:And you can tell I've been hanging around some little kids lately, I've been having a lot of fun. And we really can make just about anything as long as that need is there. So if someone calls me and says, know you don't normally do this, but can you do this? Those are the conversations that get me excited. I'm like, what do need me to do?
Brad Herda (:You
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:And they go, well, we need you to make this or that, but we need 20,000 of them or 200,000 of them. And I go perfect. You know, and that's really when, right, exactly. it's, very, very difficult to find that mass manufacturing capability or even capacity here in us made. And I really.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:When do we start?
Steve Doyle (:When do parts land?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:want to make that very clear that mass manufacturing doesn't have to be outsourced. There are solutions here we're not the only ones. It is very difficult to get that funded.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:to go to people and say, hey, I want to do mass manufacturing on this massive of a scale. Because all they do is look at you and go, OK, well, how big are your eyes compared to your stomach? Are you really sure that you want to do that? And he says, yeah, obviously, there's common sense that comes into it. If there's a part that ends up we make, we go negative on it, or there isn't enough sustainable
revenue on it to maintain it, then obviously, you we have to work out something on that project where it would end up being profitable. But, you know, not being able to have a solution and then companies shutting down because they don't have that solution here in the US and they can't afford the tariffs or they can't afford, you know, any of the other charges that would come with that. There's a last opportunity.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:in a lot of different industries.
Brad Herda (:Right? Yeah. That, mass manufacturing, usually if somebody has it, they're captive to two or three organizations and that's it. And nobody else is getting in. And because that those larger organizations didn't want to invest in their own vertical integration. it sounds like you are, working to create an organization that's large enough where you're not held hostage by one or two or three primary customers, but come one, come all. And this is where this, this is
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:We'll keep growing. We'll grow with it.
Brad Herda (:This is what this is what it's going to look like along the way, which is, I will say, a very ambitious approach and one that not many are willing to take. So like you said earlier, big dreams, big aspirations and your abundance mindset through the entire process has been nothing short of spectacular as much as it's as long as it's been as many losses as there have been wins.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:Um, your positivity along the way has been nothing short of fun to, to have as we've kept the conversation going along the way. So, um, that's a big part of it a big sign for leadership. Um, so if people are considering working for Apex and for Anne and her organizations, um, you need to go back and look at some things and listen to a few past episodes and the things she's been doing. Cause, uh, her leadership is second to none from, from what you're trying to accomplish. So thank you for.
Ann Ensenbach (:Thank you.
Brad Herda (:keeping the industry and growing the industry as well, because that's what we're here for also is to keep the industry moving forward.
Ann Ensenbach (:Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It's been a lot of work, a lot of good with the bad, and that's, you know, that's life. And I sleep really well, not for a long time, but I sleep very well, usually about five, six hours.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:How are your sleep habits?
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yeah, it's all good.
Brad Herda (:About 20 minutes of the crack. I'm good.
Ann Ensenbach (:It's only going to get a little crazier. We are launching out a couple more products in the spring. So it's going to get pretty hectic here come April into May. then one of my very favorite shows is Soft Lake down in Tampa, Florida. Looking at launching out a new platform there. I'm very, very excited about that. That's in May. And then really just...
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:Being able to continue on on those expectations and some people do think that I look at the world through rose-colored glasses and I prefer to do that. I see the dark. I just choose not to focus on it. And it's hard.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:That is a fantastic statement.
Steve Doyle (:Yes. Because it is a choice.
Ann Ensenbach (:And I mean, I've had people try and take apex from me. I've had people try and take my technology. I've had, man, every troll you can imagine. And it is mine. It's all part of the game. And if you're really in it, just, you see that and you go, okay, that's cool. Good for them. And then, you know, this is not going to interrupt what I'm doing. And I believe in what my goals are.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:And I believe that what I'm doing is for good. And as long as I'm doing for good, I don't care if anyone's watching me. I don't care if they're trying to take my stuff because at that point I know I'm doing something right. you know, and kudos to them if they get it, because that means I failed at protecting it, you know? It's all part of the game. It really is. And business is very, very competitive.
Steve Doyle (:Absolutely.
Ann Ensenbach (:Especially you get into defense and you get into products. There's a lot of ego and and that's okay
Steve Doyle (:yeah.
Brad Herda (:So if people are looking to be part of the Apex family, do they go? How do they find you? Is there just a general Apex site that has all the things on it? Or are all three entities separate? Or how does that work?
Ann Ensenbach (:We do have on the Apex group, that's Apex with two A's, the apexgroup.com. There's contact us, feel free to send me a message over. I've quite a few really great candidates from that. Otherwise, feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm more than happy to take a look at that. I love LinkedIn. It's one of my favorite platforms. That's how we met.
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Ann Ensenbach (:And I love it because it gives it all right on your profile, your resume, what you're about, your credentials, your companies, and those that you work with. And I just, I really appreciate that. That's a great way to really reach me. That goes right to my phone. Otherwise, through our apex group.com website is perfect as well.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Okay. And then for the last part of the show, we have a new segment. It's called, it's rapid fire. So we're gonna ask you a few questions, kind of rapid fire format here and just go with the flow and see what the answers come back as. All right. You good? Let's see here. What's the dumbest thing you've ever heard in a meeting?
Ann Ensenbach (:it.
Ann Ensenbach (:Well, I know it's taken over half an hour, give me two more minutes, I'll get to the point.
Steve Doyle (:you
Ann Ensenbach (:That one will stay with you for a long time. That one should have just been an email. It really should.
Brad Herda (:I like that.
Steve Doyle (:I like that.
Brad Herda (:If you had a time. If you had a time machine, where are you going back to and why?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:I go back to 2010. I'd say bye to my late husband and I would let him know that we're going to be alright.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:That's awesome.
What's your go-to excuse when running late?
Ann Ensenbach (:I don't use excuses if I'm late. I mean, if I'm ever late, it's usually something out of my control, but I ever make excuses on that. It's up to me to make enough time to make sure that if something like that does happen, that I'm still not late.
Steve Doyle (:I like that.
Brad Herda (:I wish more people understood that.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. I wish more people did that.
Brad Herda (:coffee or energy drink.
Ann Ensenbach (:energy drinks will kill you.
Steve Doyle (:you
Brad Herda (:Go to Curse Word.
Ann Ensenbach (:F word.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Favorite candy.
Ann Ensenbach (:Actually, there's sugar-free Hershey's candy bars. I'm obsessed with them. They're so good.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:Really? Okay. early bird or night owl?
Ann Ensenbach (:Night Owl.
Brad Herda (:proudest fix it moment.
Ann Ensenbach (:Well, I'll give you this one. We had a tank that was leaking and I was able to fix it with some chewing gum and some duct tape. Yeah. And it was able to work for the next couple of hours until it had, until they could shut it down. But yeah, that was proud of that one. I'm not licking the diver.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, did it really work?
Brad Herda (:Are you serious?
Brad Herda (:Wow, okay.
Steve Doyle (:I'm a guy bird that thing. I'm a guy bird that thing. I love it.
Brad Herda (:what's in your lunchbox today?
Ann Ensenbach (:Yes.
Ann Ensenbach (:I didn't eat lunch today.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, same. Most overused phrase inside Apex.
Steve Doyle (:Ann Ensenbach (28:55.475)
What does Ann think?
Brad Herda (:Best pizza topping.
Ann Ensenbach (:Pepperoni.
Brad Herda (:nickname at work or on the job site.
Ann Ensenbach (:Miss Anne.
Brad Herda (:Favorite movie quote?
Ann Ensenbach (:If you don't know where to start, go back to the beginning. I think that's how it goes. Oh, if you don't know where you're at, go back to the beginning. And that's from Escanaba and The Moon Knight. Jeff Bridges movie. Or not Jeff Bridges. Anyway, sorry. One of my favorite movies of all time. For some reason, I'm having a brain storm. Favorite music?
Brad Herda (:where was that from?
Steve Doyle (:Hmm.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:It's all good.
Brad Herda (:That's because you're on the spot. Favorite music.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Yes, genre.
Ann Ensenbach (:rap? Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Really?
Steve Doyle (:Okay, what genre rap? Like what decade of rap?
Ann Ensenbach (:early 90s through late 90s, not so much into the early 2000s.
Steve Doyle (:Alright.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:And the last question, bucket list vacation location.
Ann Ensenbach (:I went to a place when I was in Australia, it was off of Fremantle Australia, Western Australia. And it's a beautiful place called Hillary's Marina. And there's all kinds of shops and everything there. But there's a ferry there, or you could take a nicer boat over to Rottnest Island.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Ann Ensenbach (:and that is the best place I have ever been in my life. No one inhabits it. You can't live there, you can stay there. I think it's up to two nights. Maybe it's three. But you have to be approved and all of that sort of stuff. But it is so beautiful there. I really can't wait to be back there at least once in my life.
Steve Doyle (:That's awesome. That's fantastic.
Brad Herda (:Cool. Again, and thank you so much for what you're doing and for rejuvenating an area in the Carolinas and bringing back manufacturing to the U.S. and letting OEMs and others know that it can be done and it will be done here in the U.S. and bringing that quality and that determination back. So thank you so much for what you're doing.
Ann Ensenbach (:Thank you. And thank you for what you guys are doing. It's amazing that you're highlighting us folks who are really trying to make that impact. You guys are just awesome and I really appreciate it.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, thank you.
Brad Herda (:Thank you very much. Have an enjoyable rest of your weekend. Thanks.
Ann Ensenbach (:Thank you, you too.