Are you struggling to find balance between ambition and a fulfilling personal life? In this compelling episode of Seek Go Create, host Tim Winders sits down with Hal Donaldson, founder of Convoy of Hope, to discuss the pivotal moments that reshaped his life and leadership journey. From a personal health scare to a life-changing encounter with Mother Teresa, discover how Hal's experiences can guide you toward a more purposeful, faith-driven approach to success and service. Tune in to explore the profound insights on leadership, humility, and the power of prayer.
"Balancing ambition and personal life begins with investing time in family and God." - Hal Donaldson
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Hal Donaldson is the president and CEO of Convoy of Hope, a renowned faith-based humanitarian organization. Under his leadership, Convoy of Hope has distributed over $2.5 billion in aid globally, focusing on poverty alleviation and disaster relief. Recognized by Forbes as a top charity, the organization partners with churches and businesses to create lasting impacts. Hal is also a respected author, notably co-writing "What Really Matters," which explores balancing personal care and serving others. His personal journey, shaped by early poverty and a life-changing encounter with Mother Teresa, drives his mission to serve the poor and elevate local communities.
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1. Balance Ambition and Personal Life:
2. Importance of Humility in Leadership:
3. Value of Prayer and Discernment:
4. Sustained Engagement in Humanitarian Work:
5. Shared Governance and Accountability:
These lessons, drawn from Hal Donaldson's experiences and insights, provide valuable guidance for leaders in both personal growth and organizational effectiveness.
00:00 Introduction to the Interview with Mother Teresa
01:49 Hal's Background and Achievements
05:26 Convoy of Hope's Mission and Impact
08:41 Personal Reflections and Leadership Insights
18:04 The Power of Asking Questions
28:06 The Importance of a Solid Heart Foundation
30:44 Defining Success: Then and Now
31:59 Balancing Ambition and Obedience
41:41 The Role of Governance in Leadership
46:18 Disaster Relief and Global Programs
50:19 Writing 'What Really Matters'
54:18 Final Thoughts and Reflections
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Want you to interview mother Teresa for our book. In the course of
Speaker:that interview with mother Teresa, she turned the tables on me, and
Speaker:she simply asked this question. Young man, let me ask
Speaker:you, what are you doing to help the poor and the suffering?
Speaker:And I figured I shouldn't lie to her. I need to tell her the truth.
Speaker:And so I did, and I said, I'm not really doing much of anything.
Speaker:And she replied this way. She said, well, everyone can do
Speaker:something. Just do the next kind thing that God puts in front of
Speaker:you.
Speaker:What drives a person to tackle global poverty and hunger head
Speaker:on? Today, we're joined by Hal Donaldson, president and
Speaker:CEO of Convoy of Hope, a faith based organization
Speaker:recognized by Forbes as one of the top 50 charities in the
Speaker:United States. How a steered convoy of hope to distribute over
Speaker:2,500,000,000 in aid, impaction,
Speaker:and action. Listen in on our conversation as we
Speaker:explore the depths of what really matters in serving
Speaker:both ourselves and serving others while
Speaker:attempting to fulfill God's call in our lives. These things
Speaker:are deeply woven into Hal's latest book, What
Speaker:Really Matters. Hal, welcome to seek, go, create.
Speaker:Hey. It's great to be with you, Tim. Thank you for the invitation. Really grateful.
Speaker:Great to have you here too, Hal. And I and I've gotta admit, you
Speaker:are I'll use the terms kinda weird. You're kind of a rock star, but you're
Speaker:kind of a a a silent rock star. I
Speaker:I I got your stuff across my desk. I saw the book title. I said,
Speaker:yeah. We want him. And then I started doing a research. I said, gosh. This
Speaker:guy has a a lot going on. So we're gonna have a great
Speaker:conversation. But let's pretend for just a moment
Speaker:that, let's say we met outside of your domain,
Speaker:maybe outside of Church World or outside of nonprofit, etcetera.
Speaker:And you just bump into somebody and they ask you what you do. What's
Speaker:what's your typical response when people ask you that?
Speaker:Yeah. Well, first let me just say, I'm going to tell my kids tonight that
Speaker:you call me a rock star. They're going to be very impressed with that.
Speaker:But, yeah, I, I went out like I'm on an airplane, for example, and,
Speaker:the person sitting next to me asked that question. Typically we'll say, I am,
Speaker:president of a charity that is feeding children all over the world,
Speaker:responding to disasters all over the world. And we really specialize
Speaker:in mobilizing and activating churches and bringing
Speaker:them together with businesses to really make a lasting difference in the
Speaker:lives of people who are hurting or impoverished. What's the
Speaker:response you typically get from that? Tell me more, and they want to go a
Speaker:lot deeper. Like we start talking about our women's empowerment initiative
Speaker:and the tens of thousands of mothers every year that we're
Speaker:helping start businesses. And they wanna talk about the farming
Speaker:initiatives. Again, training tens of thousands of
Speaker:farmers and families every year, helping them increase their yields. So they wanna go deep
Speaker:and wanna understand really where it all came from. How did it all
Speaker:start? That's one of the questions I get quite a bit is, how did this
Speaker:all start? You know, I was interviewing a pastor recently,
Speaker:and we were talking about the same thing. And he said, you know, there's some
Speaker:people that might have a little bit of an edge to them when
Speaker:he mentions that he's a pastor. But my guess is
Speaker:that regardless of spiritual background, regardless of where they are in the
Speaker:world, I would guess you don't get anybody go, oh,
Speaker:I can't can't believe you. Feed the hungry, take care of the
Speaker:widows. I mean, it's pretty foundational needs based
Speaker:stuff. Correct? Yeah. It is. And, you
Speaker:know, I like to say this that, hey. Christians don't have a
Speaker:monopoly on compassion. We don't. And we really encourage
Speaker:people of all faiths. We encourage people who aren't religious,
Speaker:don't believe in God, to be compassionate. So yeah, it's been
Speaker:a, it's been a great conversation starter, Tim. I've met people where they
Speaker:become lifelong friends and just because they believe in what we
Speaker:do and, they may not necessarily believe in God yet.
Speaker:But they are on a journey, and they certainly are interested in the
Speaker:ongoing conversation. So that's certainly, been my
Speaker:experience. Yeah. And I I love that. I love it. Because and as Christians, we
Speaker:read that in scripture. I think sometimes we read in scripture
Speaker:what we are to do as Christians, and we look for other things to do,
Speaker:like correct other people or I went to bible school for a
Speaker:few years, beat people over the head with a bible, something like that. But I
Speaker:love the foundation of what you're doing. To to I tell you what I'd love
Speaker:for us to do during this conversation because we've got a lot of leaders listening
Speaker:in. We talk leadership. I've read through the book and and a lot
Speaker:of the themes there so resonate with a lot of our topics we've been having
Speaker:recently. But I think before I go any further,
Speaker:I wasn't as familiar with Convoy as Hope as I would have liked
Speaker:to have been. And so kind of to get
Speaker:started, I know I mentioned a few things in the introduction, and those are
Speaker:numbers and stats. But what and this may be general because
Speaker:I wanna talk specifically operations and leadership things later.
Speaker:But what in general would you like people to know about Convoy of Hope before
Speaker:we dive into talking about your book and leadership and some other things? Yeah.
Speaker:At the core of our mission is to really activate, mobilize
Speaker:churches, and to resource them. And, you know, I've I've found this to
Speaker:be true that thousands and thousands of churches that work alongside
Speaker:convoy of hope, it's really convoy of hope working alongside them.
Speaker:Our desire in every community in every setting is to
Speaker:really elevate the local church, lift up the name of Jesus. We're really
Speaker:not interested in building another charity. We're really
Speaker:interested in fulfilling the mission of elevating the local church. We
Speaker:believe that the church is God's answer to meeting the needs of
Speaker:humanity, both physical and spiritual needs. And so we are a
Speaker:supply chain to the church. There have been times where we have been asked
Speaker:to do other things outside of the church realm, and we have turned
Speaker:those opportunities down. They would have been fruitful financially. They
Speaker:certainly would have led to maybe more name recognition, but we
Speaker:didn't wanna leave what we believe God had given us as a mission.
Speaker:And the core value of Convoy of Hope is that it's about the
Speaker:local church. And so we have spent, the last 30
Speaker:years coming alongside thousands and thousands of churches
Speaker:and helping them be the hero in their communities and to lift up the name
Speaker:of Jesus. So, Tim, that's probably at the core of everything
Speaker:we do, is whether it's children feeding, women empowerment,
Speaker:disaster response, everything we do is to
Speaker:lift up the name of Jesus and to elevate the local church. The reason
Speaker:that that means so much to me, Hal, is
Speaker:because for some years now, I
Speaker:have actually been I don't wanna say critical, maybe
Speaker:cynical, but the local church has taken kind of
Speaker:a beating over the last few years for some time now.
Speaker:And some of its leadership challenges, some of its, you know,
Speaker:maybe culture and different and some of it maybe the the church has brought on
Speaker:itself. I haven't run across many people
Speaker:that are speaking in such a positive way
Speaker:hearing that. Well, that's and we give God the
Speaker:glory for that. It's why we've experienced rapid growth is because
Speaker:we we are tethered to local churches across the country. Yeah. And the and the
Speaker:good thing going back to something we talked about earlier, I actually
Speaker:think one of the things you may be doing is helping that local
Speaker:church stay on one of our biblical
Speaker:assignments, which is to feed and take care
Speaker:of and nurture and go out. You know, it could be that y'all
Speaker:come in and really provide that mechanism. Correct? That's
Speaker:exactly right. I think part of what we do is we remove all
Speaker:excuses. We're supplying the church
Speaker:with resources, know how, and we're helping them
Speaker:just really mobilize and activate their own people. And
Speaker:so, yes, that's, that's really our calling. And, I think there are thousands
Speaker:and thousands of churches across the country and around the world for that matter
Speaker:that would say that we've stayed true to that mission. It's
Speaker:we're really not interested. I know it doesn't sound like probably
Speaker:a wise thing to say, but I really am not interested in building another
Speaker:nonprofit or another charity. If that's all we do, then we have not
Speaker:fulfilled our calling and our mandate from the Lord.
Speaker:Yeah. That's excellent. I wanna come back to your
Speaker:role in the organization as we
Speaker:maybe wrap up. But what I'd love to do now is backtrack
Speaker:because when I when I'm interacting with people that I would
Speaker:call them, I would put them in the achievement oriented
Speaker:personalities, and I believe you would definitely fit into that.
Speaker:All of our guests really kind of fit into that. I I like
Speaker:to find out a little bit of the background that may have
Speaker:fed into that. From doing reading on you, I'm gonna mention 3 things
Speaker:that seem significant, and I will sometimes call them
Speaker:catalytic events that they really impact because I've heard you
Speaker:mention them as, you know, one when you were 12, one I think when
Speaker:you were able to interview mother Teresa, and then one when you had a health
Speaker:issue. I I think you were 50 years old at the time. I don't I
Speaker:don't there may be I think there were some others, but those were the ones
Speaker:when I'm just stepping back looking. Yeah. What do you wanna
Speaker:say about those as we lead into what really
Speaker:matters? Because I think all of those were significant, but anything I'm
Speaker:gonna allow you, whichever one you wanna choose or pick from there, if not all
Speaker:of them briefly. Yeah. I I I would
Speaker:probably combine those first two because they kind of work
Speaker:together. When I was 12, my parents were hit by a drunken driver. My
Speaker:father was killed. My mother was seriously injured. I was in the hospital
Speaker:for a number of months. Our family didn't have insurance. And so the
Speaker:man who hit them didn't have insurance. Our family was forced to survive
Speaker:on welfare and food stamps. We made it, we survived in
Speaker:large part because of the kindness and the generosity of a local church
Speaker:that wrapped their arms around us. And one family in particular, they
Speaker:allowed us to live with them in their single wide trailer for a year.
Speaker:As a teenager, I had a lot of, questions because I
Speaker:experienced the shame and the pain of poverty, but I also
Speaker:experienced the power of kindness. People put shoes on our feet. They
Speaker:brought groceries to our door. I think that's really where my
Speaker:love for the local church began because I was a recipient,
Speaker:But fast forward to adulthood and I thought the best way to
Speaker:escape poverty was through education. I worked my way through college or in
Speaker:several degrees. And in my twenties, I landed a job as
Speaker:a ghostwriter, helping people write their books. And
Speaker:I have a journalism degree and I began writing books
Speaker:and I got a contract that took me to Calcutta, India,
Speaker:where I met with some missionaries who I was going to write a book for.
Speaker:And they said, well, we want you to interview mother Teresa for a book.
Speaker:In the course of that interview with Mother Teresa, she turned the tables
Speaker:on me, and she simply asked this question. Young man, let
Speaker:me ask you, what are you doing to help the poor and the suffering?
Speaker:And I figured I shouldn't lie to her. I need to tell her the truth.
Speaker:And so I did. And I said, I'm not really doing much of anything.
Speaker:And she replied this way. She said, well, everyone can do
Speaker:something. Just do the next kind thing that God puts in front of
Speaker:you. I returned to the States after that
Speaker:conversation convicted, feeling like I needed to have a
Speaker:priority change, began praying for God to do a work in my
Speaker:heart. And one day, Tim, I
Speaker:felt led to do something quite unusual. And I thought I was
Speaker:going to write a book about it, but I felt led to travel to 8
Speaker:cities in America and live in the streets for 3 days 3 nights. I
Speaker:went to Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, DC, New York, major cities.
Speaker:I walked the streets after midnight with a hidden tape recorder interviewing drug
Speaker:addicts and gang members, prostitutes, runaways, and the homeless.
Speaker:And I rode with the police on the midnight shift. And all I can tell
Speaker:you is that in the streets of America, God broke my heart,
Speaker:and he had to do a work in my heart before he could do a
Speaker:work through my hands. Came back after those
Speaker:trips, and I, again, felt compelled 30 years
Speaker:ago to load up a, pickup truck with $300 worth of
Speaker:groceries and and start passing an amount to, working poor
Speaker:families, actually migrant farm workers in Northern California. That
Speaker:was the sort of convoy of hope 30 years ago. God breathed on it.
Speaker:We went from pickup trucks to box trucks, to
Speaker:semi trucks, to a fleet of semi trucks, to
Speaker:warehouses around the world. And so in a nutshell,
Speaker:I combine that 12 year old experience and the love and the
Speaker:kindness I experienced really to the work that we're doing
Speaker:today. And one thing, you sort of mentioned it, but it's something
Speaker:that is on people's mind when they hear a story like that. And and I
Speaker:do wanna say, I have heard some interviews, and
Speaker:I've read more from your book. There there is more to the story. It's
Speaker:when when one says a something so
Speaker:quickly about father being killed in an accident and all that,
Speaker:I I don't wanna I don't wanna imply we're being flippant about that story at
Speaker:all, but it was significant. And so what I I wanna
Speaker:follow-up is ask, was your heart because many
Speaker:people go through disappointment. I interviewed someone recently. They said the biggest
Speaker:hindrance to success is discouragement and disappointment. And
Speaker:so to talk about I'm I'm really
Speaker:fascinated now at this stage of my life. I'm 60, and I'm going, what's the
Speaker:condition of my heart? And I used to never think about that. But what was
Speaker:the condition of your heart during that time, those those years?
Speaker:Yeah. I I asked the hard questions at
Speaker:beginning at age 12. You know? Is he a good god?
Speaker:Did he cause my father to die? Or is he
Speaker:impotent? Did this just happen by chance? So those were the
Speaker:hard questions that I asked of the team. And Bill
Speaker:Davis, Bill and Levadas, they're Levadas Davis, they're the ones that
Speaker:invited us to live in their trailer. So as a 12 year old boy, I
Speaker:was hurting and Bill Davis came and he put his arm on my
Speaker:shoulder. And he said, don't allow the tragedy of your youth to
Speaker:become a lifelong excuse because where you start
Speaker:in life doesn't have to dictate where you end. And those words I
Speaker:held onto Tim, I held onto them. And, I think they
Speaker:really helped me get through high school, which was very difficult.
Speaker:Because you're going to school without a sack lunch. You're going to school with holes
Speaker:in your shoes. Those were hard times and I had to start
Speaker:working at a very young age. I was the oldest of 4 children.
Speaker:And so I became the father of the home at age 12.
Speaker:Those were some really difficult times, But if it
Speaker:wasn't for the local church, I would have chosen a life of bitterness.
Speaker:I would have. I wouldn't be on this podcast with you. I'd probably be in
Speaker:jail. But again, the love, the kindness that
Speaker:that church showed me is something that changed my life. In
Speaker:situations that are challenging,
Speaker:would you say now that there are blessings that have
Speaker:come from what anyone would agree is a
Speaker:challenge, losing a father, your mother, you know, going
Speaker:through difficulty. What are some of the things in looking back that
Speaker:it's a blessing? First of all, you're able you you've got a story to
Speaker:tell. Right?
Speaker:Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I think, maybe a
Speaker:a lesson that I learned along the way. I think when I was younger, I
Speaker:wanted to try and apologize for God. I was trying to explain
Speaker:for God. People would ask me questions like, you
Speaker:know, why are good people hurting? Why are they going
Speaker:through difficult circumstances? And I think we make a
Speaker:real mistake when we try to explain it away,
Speaker:and we use slogans, cliches to try and explain that
Speaker:question away. I think we're much better off saying, you know, I don't
Speaker:understand why children are abused. I don't
Speaker:understand why women suffer, at the
Speaker:hands of their husband. I don't know why lives are lost in disasters.
Speaker:I don't know why. But this I do know, that there are
Speaker:some things we're not going to be able to understand until we get to heaven.
Speaker:And I do believe that he's a good God. I believe he's a good
Speaker:God because he took my life and he showed
Speaker:me his kindness and his goodness. And I've seen him through Convoy of Hope
Speaker:give 1,000,000 and millions of people, hope
Speaker:and restore their hope. I believe it. I will go
Speaker:to my grave believing he's a good God. And so I
Speaker:think as a believer, as a follower of Christ,
Speaker:I learned at a young age, don't try to apologize for
Speaker:God. Don't try to explain him. And
Speaker:when I got to that point, it really helped me. It
Speaker:relieved a burden. So now I don't approach my father's death
Speaker:with resentment. I don't understand it. Even now,
Speaker:I don't understand it. But I believe he's a good God, and I
Speaker:believe he has a purpose, for everyone's life.
Speaker:Yes. And I think one of the key things that I I hear is that
Speaker:and there's a really, really good chance that we will not
Speaker:totally grasp it. I think one of our desires is
Speaker:to control and understand. And as
Speaker:I mature, I think part of that maturity is just
Speaker:letting go of that desire to control and
Speaker:and rule and reign in my life and allow him to rule and reign in
Speaker:my life. How one of the things we have as a title here
Speaker:is kinda like a subtitle is the leadership journey.
Speaker:And Yeah. When we're talking about an organization
Speaker:that's 30 years old, has done all that convoy of hope
Speaker:has, and I think I saw 12 years of
Speaker:20% plus growth over the last few years. One of the things
Speaker:I love to know, we've got some young leaders. We've got mature leaders that
Speaker:listen in here of both for profit and nonprofit.
Speaker:What are what are some things you can share about your leadership
Speaker:journey along the way? Obviously, you were younger
Speaker:when you started and probably had some drive, energy,
Speaker:etcetera. Anything come to mind when I mentioned the leadership
Speaker:journey that you've been on? Sure.
Speaker:I'd like to tie it back to, the last, segment if I
Speaker:can. You know, I think as leaders, it's okay to ask questions.
Speaker:And even if those questions may feel harsh, God can handle
Speaker:it. One of the things I do, Tim, is I write my questions down,
Speaker:and I, tend to put them in my wallet. If you were to look at
Speaker:my wallet today, you would see that I have several questions for God that I'm
Speaker:asking, and just so God can handle it. And so as leaders,
Speaker:it's important that we're asking the right questions and we're not afraid
Speaker:of asking those questions. Asking the right questions
Speaker:is not a lack of faith. I believe it actually is faith
Speaker:when you know who to ask. And so, you know, I carry those
Speaker:questions with me and I'm asking God those questions every day. So that'd
Speaker:be one thing I would say. A lot of people are paralyzed by the fact
Speaker:that they have unanswered questions. We don't need to be paralyzed
Speaker:by unanswered questions. In my case, I don't need to be
Speaker:paralyzed by the magnitude of the need out there in the world. God wants
Speaker:me just to do what I can do every single day to wake up and
Speaker:do what I can do. And I think as a young leader, I thought that
Speaker:I had to work at 125%.
Speaker:And if I didn't, that I was really disappointing God. I
Speaker:wish in my early days that I had prayed more and worked less.
Speaker:Honestly, if I had, I probably would have saved myself a lot
Speaker:of grief and a lot of challenges along the way. The last thing I
Speaker:would say is probably make sure that you're living under
Speaker:the right expectations. If you are,
Speaker:ambitious and you want to accomplish something for God,
Speaker:that's beautiful. We all should be that kind of person that wants to
Speaker:do what God's asking us to do. But a lot of times we're living
Speaker:under the expectations of other people. It could be a spouse. It could be a
Speaker:child. It could be an employer. And those expectations
Speaker:are unrealistic. And as a result, we work at
Speaker:125% to try to achieve our goals. I think
Speaker:when I was in my twenties, I put up on pedestals people
Speaker:who had the loudest voice, who had the largest network, who
Speaker:were the most seen. In retrospect, I
Speaker:wish I had put on pedestal people who were the most humble,
Speaker:people who were the most loyal, the most faithful and kind.
Speaker:Because what happens is as a young person, you have a tendency to
Speaker:try to emulate what you see and what you idolize. And you
Speaker:begin to work so hard to achieve what they've achieved, but
Speaker:that may not be what God's called you to do. And so know,
Speaker:in retrospect, I wish I had just tried to emulate and idolize
Speaker:people who are just faithful. And and, I think you've
Speaker:got some examples in the book. And that's the reason I even do a podcast.
Speaker:I love asking questions. I've even, in my quiet time, said, God,
Speaker:are you okay with my questions? And I I think he's told me, I love
Speaker:it that you ask questions. That's the way I wired you. But do do you
Speaker:have any examples of, I'll call them an
Speaker:audacious question that somebody listening might go, oh my
Speaker:gosh. I can't believe Hal asked God
Speaker:that. I mean, anything come to mind when I say that?
Speaker:Sure. Oh, yeah. Many. Many. Because, I would
Speaker:approach it this way, that if if I have the ability to, answer those
Speaker:questions or to fulfill those questions, then they're probably
Speaker:not the right questions for God. The questions I ask God
Speaker:are things that I can't do on my own and my own
Speaker:ability. I'll give you one. So, you know, about 4 years ago,
Speaker:we felt like that it was time for us to consolidate our
Speaker:offices and our work into one facility. And, you know,
Speaker:I wrote down in my wallet, a little piece of paper in
Speaker:my wallet, I said, God, how on earth do we
Speaker:raise $70,000,000? Because, you know, we didn't
Speaker:wanna take children out of feeding lines. We didn't wanna take women out
Speaker:of the women's empowerment program. We didn't want to stop our community
Speaker:festivals across the United States. So God, how do we
Speaker:continue to do that and to grow that, and simultaneously,
Speaker:how do we raise $70,000,000 So that
Speaker:was my question. All right? Because, again, that's
Speaker:beyond my ability. I could not do that,
Speaker:but God can, and God showed us how.
Speaker:And so I felt like the Lord answered me, and it
Speaker:was how to knock on one door at a time, just
Speaker:one door at a time, and ask people to help.
Speaker:And we did, and God did it.
Speaker:You can't take credit for that. You can't reach for the
Speaker:glory. God did it. And there are many examples. There are
Speaker:more personal examples of relationship issues that have,
Speaker:come up through the years. I discovered a long time ago, God is a
Speaker:great reader. He reads. He reads really well.
Speaker:I love the imagery of you writing it down and putting it
Speaker:in your wallet. Wallets generally, and
Speaker:this is symbol little symbolism here is where we keep our
Speaker:money. You know, we we keep credit cards, maybe some pictures
Speaker:of, you know, family and all that. I've got kind of a lean wallet myself
Speaker:right now, and I love the imagery of you taking your
Speaker:questions for God and inserting it in there with
Speaker:those those typical financial things that are in a in a
Speaker:wallet. How what what do you
Speaker:what if someone were to ask
Speaker:and I don't know if it's changed over the years, if it was early on,
Speaker:if it was different, and now it's it it it's different than that. But
Speaker:what would you say are your superpowers? What are some things that
Speaker:God gifted you with
Speaker:that are they come natural to you?
Speaker:Yeah. You know, someone asked me one time, you know, what do I want
Speaker:written on my gravestone? And I said, I'd like it to
Speaker:say that I treated everyone the same, everyone the same.
Speaker:And again, I come from poverty. I come from
Speaker:inferiority and brokenness. And it
Speaker:helps you it prevents you from getting full of yourself. And
Speaker:when you get full of yourself, you no longer hear God's voice. You don't hear
Speaker:it with clarity. And so, yeah, I think that's
Speaker:probably the most important thing. And, Tim, if you're my friend,
Speaker:I make it my goal to give you more than you give me.
Speaker:So if there's anything that God's blessed me with, it's, a
Speaker:desire for friendship. And I think when you have
Speaker:that approach to life where every person is valuable
Speaker:and everyone is a child of God and you want to be their friend,
Speaker:you become like a spiritual magnet. And people wanna hang
Speaker:out with you. They wanna be with you because they sense that you care,
Speaker:that you value them. So I've never said that
Speaker:before to anybody, but I kinda feel like that's one of the things that God
Speaker:has built upon is just a love for people. Yeah. And there's
Speaker:it kinda goes back to that heart issue we were talking about earlier is I
Speaker:I think hard hearts repel.
Speaker:Hard hearts repel, soft hearts attract. And and
Speaker:I and I think that layers in to what you were saying, which is
Speaker:interesting. I'd written the word humility next here on kind
Speaker:of my my list because you had brought it up earlier.
Speaker:And I and I don't wanna the way I'd like for the us to
Speaker:discuss humility because I believe what you just said is a
Speaker:description In some ways, maybe it's a character trait of humility.
Speaker:But what I'd love for you to if you could expand on, earlier you
Speaker:said you wanna be around people that are people of
Speaker:humility. You wanna surround yourself with that. And and
Speaker:one of the things I've noticed with myself and and I think you contrasted
Speaker:that with people that are loud public figures. They, you know, they
Speaker:were charismatic and things like that, and that might be a word you didn't
Speaker:use. It's a word I use. Yeah. I believe I'm better at it
Speaker:now, but I think years ago, I struggled with identifying humility
Speaker:in others, maybe because I struggled with it myself. But
Speaker:how do you gauge humility in
Speaker:others? Yeah. It's probably a lot different
Speaker:than what people would assume.
Speaker:They assume that if you're an introvert, you're humble.
Speaker:They assume if you are kind, you're humble.
Speaker:I think it's different than that. I think each one of us has
Speaker:an aura about us, and that
Speaker:aura speaks volumes. And and
Speaker:rarely do you have to use words for people to know whether or not you
Speaker:are someone who is full of themselves or not,
Speaker:whether that person is aloof? Do you have a humble aura
Speaker:about you? I think it's that's where the Holy Spirit comes
Speaker:in. I think it's the Holy Spirit that really reveals
Speaker:what that individual is about and what he or she is
Speaker:about. So at least that's what that's been my
Speaker:experience, Tim. Really has been. I wanted to follow-up with what you said about
Speaker:the heart, and I I do believe the heart is the foundation that God builds
Speaker:upon. And if the heart is flawed, God
Speaker:can only build so tall because it will
Speaker:collapse under the ego of that foundation. And so
Speaker:I think it's imperative that you really have a heart after
Speaker:God. You have a heart that's solid because that is the
Speaker:foundation that the Lord will build your business, your church,
Speaker:or your organization around. And what's interesting about that over the last few
Speaker:years, the Lord has been working on me. I had my father passed away, and
Speaker:we've had some situations in in family and
Speaker:all. And also even with COVID and things like that. I asked a
Speaker:lot of questions of the Lord too. It's like, Lord, what is going on here?
Speaker:What's happening? And he kept bringing me back to
Speaker:thinking eternally. And that from an eternal
Speaker:perspective, the condition of my heart is the most important thing.
Speaker:And for for a guy who's an industrial and systems
Speaker:engineer, time is important. Deadlines are important. I
Speaker:I work with leaders and leadership teams. You know, I I I can
Speaker:get to thinking about a lot of other things,
Speaker:and, that reminder is is very healthy.
Speaker:I have found when I force myself to
Speaker:overlook that character trait of humility and do
Speaker:business with people or interact with people that
Speaker:may not have that character foundation. I'm not saying
Speaker:anybody's perfect. We all have, you know, flare ups and situations. But
Speaker:can you talk a little bit about that, especially touching all the people you do
Speaker:with your organization? How important is it to work
Speaker:with people that have some humility?
Speaker:Yeah. I think it's important to work with people who are like minded,
Speaker:who understand the mission. There are a number of organizations,
Speaker:individuals that we've chosen not to work with, not because it
Speaker:wouldn't be profitable, but just because we know
Speaker:that eventually there's gonna be a train record. Let's find people
Speaker:who are like minded, who are after the same things,
Speaker:who aren't after the credit, who aren't after personal gain, but are
Speaker:after the mission. I could give you many examples of that, where we've been very
Speaker:careful to make sure we align ourselves with people who we believe
Speaker:in. And I like to say it this way, that if we're not willing to
Speaker:hand them the microphone in front of our constituents and our
Speaker:donors, then they're probably not someone that we want to be working
Speaker:with. That's, for me, a litmus test. Will I hand them the
Speaker:microphone k. And let them talk? One of the things
Speaker:I'll ask it this way. How are you
Speaker:defining success today? And then
Speaker:maybe go back in time. I don't know if it's 30 years ago or 20
Speaker:years ago or I I think at the age of 50, we'll talk a little
Speaker:bit about the catalyst, I think, for the book. Yeah. But how are you
Speaker:defining success either then or now in contrast if it's different?
Speaker:Yeah. It's much different. Like I said before, in the early days, I was certainly
Speaker:self reliant as opposed to god reliant. I thought I really
Speaker:measured success by the accolades of other people, not necessarily,
Speaker:the favor of God, but the accolades of people around me.
Speaker:That's a really dangerous path. In the book, I say
Speaker:that, success is more dangerous than failure. It is for
Speaker:that simple reason, is that you can get full of yourself, and you
Speaker:can begin to rely on yourself and not be willing to even give God a
Speaker:vote when you're trying to make decisions. And so, yeah, I would definitely
Speaker:fall into that category. But again, that goes back to my childhood.
Speaker:I'm trying to escape poverty. I'm trying to escape inferiority
Speaker:and trying to escape all the things that I hated as a
Speaker:teen. And so, you know, that compels you to do things that you probably
Speaker:shouldn't do. And so along the way, you know, I guess I've learned
Speaker:to use restraint and, to give God a vote. Success
Speaker:for me today is something that I'm sure that many people already know.
Speaker:It's obedience. It's obedience. A lot of people are after a
Speaker:balanced life. I'm after an obedient life. Because
Speaker:if you're obedient, you're going to be balanced. If you're doing what God's asking
Speaker:you to do, you will live a balanced life. And so for
Speaker:me, success is equal to obedience.
Speaker:And what are some if I'm around you
Speaker:either as your wife or I know you've got children or people that are
Speaker:in your close circles, what are some ways
Speaker:or clues that they know that you're being obedient? Either
Speaker:practices or anything like that? Because
Speaker:obedience is a word we use quite a bit in church circles, and I'm
Speaker:not sure that a lot of us translate that to a practical day to day.
Speaker:What does that look like for you? Yeah.
Speaker:Typically, what they'll my wife and my children, we have 4 daughters,
Speaker:and they will identify this. They'll they'll identify
Speaker:the fact that I am that my schedule is outrageous,
Speaker:and they're willing to tell me that. They will,
Speaker:that I look tired and, you know, or,
Speaker:hey, dad, you're not around. You're just you're traveling too much. It's
Speaker:those kind of things that let them know that, you know, I've gotten out of
Speaker:balance, and I'm not living in obedience. I'm living in an
Speaker:ambition and, you know, reckless ambition is a very dangerous thing
Speaker:as well. And I certainly have lived through that in my lifetime.
Speaker:Mhmm. I remember during the nineties, I was
Speaker:extremely proud and prideful of the fact that I
Speaker:lived off very little sleep. There was a picture
Speaker:that our, daughter did. I think it was in kindergarten
Speaker:or something where she was a family picture, and
Speaker:my dad's eyes were red.
Speaker:Yeah. And the teacher even asked her, said, oh, you know,
Speaker:your dad's eyes are red. She goes, well, that's what color they are. They're
Speaker:red all the time. And I was
Speaker:somewhat prideful of that, about how
Speaker:little sleep I needed. And, you know, and some of
Speaker:us have even said absolutely silly things, Hal. Like,
Speaker:I'll sleep when I die, and, you know, I'm doing the things
Speaker:that God needs me to do so he can equip me. But I think when
Speaker:we use words like ambition and success and
Speaker:achievement for people that describe people like
Speaker:you and others, there's other a lot of others out there, there are
Speaker:words that can creep in like like hustle
Speaker:and, you know, like you mentioned
Speaker:earlier, a 120%. And and and I've even
Speaker:I've even observed that a lot of people kinda
Speaker:have some addictions related to that. That's a strong word. But
Speaker:we can be addicted to busyness, to achievement,
Speaker:to more. My addiction was more, truthfully. It
Speaker:wasn't drugs. It wasn't I just was addicted to more.
Speaker:Are there any of those that you've identified that that you had? Because
Speaker:someone doesn't do 30 years just
Speaker:cruising along. There's something that's making that motor, that
Speaker:engine inside them run, and it may not always be healthy.
Speaker:Yeah. I think for me, it it was it is to this day.
Speaker:Again, a love for people and a desire to help
Speaker:people escape poverty. It's, all these
Speaker:things that we all believe in. But even in doing
Speaker:good things, we can overdo it.
Speaker:I found myself I'm traveling all over the world, Tim. I'm in Afghanistan,
Speaker:Indonesia, Philippines, Africa, South America,
Speaker:all over the world to feed the hungry and, you know, to
Speaker:help them escape poverty. But I was doing things that God
Speaker:wasn't asking me to do. And meanwhile, I
Speaker:was missing amazing opportunities to invest in my children
Speaker:and my wife's. And so again, just because you're doing
Speaker:something really good, it doesn't mean that God's asking you to do
Speaker:it. That certainly was the case for me. I think for a lot of
Speaker:times, a lot of people, and I have the opportunity to talk to a lot
Speaker:of leaders and pastors, And I think a lot of it is, less
Speaker:about ambition and more about boredom that they're trying to,
Speaker:really run away from boredom and to keep their life
Speaker:occupied. And I think that's one of the things that I have
Speaker:experienced that I I've learned to, maybe enjoy the quiet a
Speaker:little bit more and the time with God,
Speaker:or with my wife or with my daughters and just to
Speaker:enjoy that and not take it for granted. And I think there
Speaker:are a lot of leaders that are they're actually running away from boredom maybe
Speaker:more than they are ambitious. I I know I I think it was the
Speaker:age of 50 you had a bit of a health scare. But is some of
Speaker:that also just age or maturity
Speaker:or things like that? We're just finally
Speaker:getting it? Yeah. I I really do think
Speaker:so. And I think the older you get, the more you realize what
Speaker:really matters in life, you know, going back to the title of the book.
Speaker:But yeah, at age 50, I found myself,
Speaker:laying in a hospital bed with heart issues. They had to put 2 stents on
Speaker:my heart. And laying there, I just really felt convicted that I was trying to
Speaker:do too much, but God really made that very clear I was trying to do
Speaker:too much. When I was released from the hospital, I resigned one of my
Speaker:jobs. I stepped off of 8 board of directors. I canceled 2
Speaker:book writing contracts, and I gave really focus to
Speaker:Convoy and to my family. And I can tell you
Speaker:the irony of all of that is that when I made those decisions,
Speaker:God began to do so much more than I ever could. You know, one of
Speaker:the thing there's 2 biblical stories that pop in my head
Speaker:here, and then I'll I'll pose it as a question. But
Speaker:I've I've studied the gospels quite a bit, and with the background I
Speaker:mentioned earlier, hustle, hustle, grind, grind, you know, that some of
Speaker:us have lived through. I don't
Speaker:see that Jesus ever really hustled that
Speaker:much. We could tell had about 3 years
Speaker:ish for his, what we would call his ministry.
Speaker:They walked everywhere, didn't cover much really ground.
Speaker:Obviously, he never got on an airplane. I guess so.
Speaker:Right. Right. And, and I never I
Speaker:haven't found a scripture where it says, you know, and Jesus, you know, yelled to
Speaker:the disciples, alright, guys. You know, pull up the tunics. We gotta pick it up
Speaker:and put it down to get over to Capernaum here. I just I
Speaker:never see that. And so that's one example. And then I I I
Speaker:recently interviewed a pastor, Troy Grambling, where he'd written a book called
Speaker:Potential, and he used the story of Moses. And
Speaker:and as best we know, Moses spent 40 years in
Speaker:the palace, 40 years on the backside of the desert, and then 40
Speaker:years with the people of Israel. And during
Speaker:that 40 years in the desert, it seems as if he did nothing.
Speaker:And so I pose this as a question to a high achiever.
Speaker:Big organization. We have a lot of list
Speaker:leaders. Is doing nothing an option
Speaker:at times? Definitely.
Speaker:There are times when doing nothing is better than doing something. But most
Speaker:of the time, doing something is better than doing nothing.
Speaker:And I use Jesus as the marvel because when you
Speaker:look at his life, he didn't heal everyone. He didn't feed everyone. He
Speaker:didn't meet every need. What did He do? He did what His father
Speaker:asked Him to do. And that's why prayer is such an important
Speaker:component of our lives. You can't meet every need,
Speaker:but you wanna do what God is asking you to do. And
Speaker:so that's why you need to be willing to work and to help
Speaker:and to do the work to help people. But you also need to back that
Speaker:up with prayer so that you make sure that you're doing the right thing at
Speaker:the right time. Yeah. One thing that jumped out at me while I was reading
Speaker:through the book also is and this is maybe transitioning
Speaker:into a little bit of a leadership discussion around how you've operated
Speaker:at at Convoy of Hope. I I
Speaker:I coach for profit businesses and I also work with some leadership teams and
Speaker:some ministries. And I have found that it is
Speaker:very difficult for some people to operate in a
Speaker:board structure with a board. And and I kept
Speaker:seeing story after story of you interacting with your
Speaker:board. And I think it relates to what we just talked
Speaker:about. How do you know when to do something, when to do nothing, and
Speaker:things like that. I think I I definitely am not taking away from prayer, but
Speaker:if if the board is praying and if you're praying and all of that. But
Speaker:I I would love for you right now because there are people listening in that
Speaker:they think that having a board is just a legal structure and
Speaker:you want them in place and you don't want them to ever get control over
Speaker:whatever because they've seen stories like that. And then and then they also don't
Speaker:really consider them sounding boards and things like that.
Speaker:Talk about what a health because I perceive that you have a
Speaker:healthy board structure and relationship. Talk
Speaker:about that at Convoy just for people that may need some
Speaker:help in those areas. Yeah. Well,
Speaker:Tim, you're speaking my language because, I believe that
Speaker:governance is part of that foundation. And why is governance so
Speaker:important? Proper governance, what we call shared governance between the
Speaker:executive team and the board of directors. Why is that so important? It's because
Speaker:of accountability, but you do not want to build a ministry
Speaker:of this size around a personality. You really want
Speaker:to build it around a leadership team. And that's why I
Speaker:think board selection is so critical. Even if you are small,
Speaker:it's critical. And at convoy, we use a
Speaker:matrix of source. We want to make sure that we have adequate diversity
Speaker:and that can be gender diversity. It can be vocational, it can be geographic,
Speaker:can be denominational. And to make sure that we're filling in all the
Speaker:boxes, if you will. And so that kind of board
Speaker:selection is critical because if you select the right board members, it's
Speaker:going to prevent a lot of problems, down the road. You choose the wrong
Speaker:people. A lot of times churches, and I would say even organizations,
Speaker:businesses, they choose people who have the most money, who can give the most
Speaker:money. That's not criterion for a board
Speaker:seat. Really what you want on a board is people who are wise, who
Speaker:have a diversity of skill sets, and people who hear from
Speaker:God. That's what you're looking for. What they
Speaker:can give is really irrelevant. I think at convoy, you know,
Speaker:we've tried to live that out for many, many years. What's
Speaker:the relationship? Some people believe that a board is there for an annual
Speaker:meeting, and that's about it. But I I get the feeling there's a lot more
Speaker:there between not just you, but the leadership team that's the
Speaker:organization and then also the board. What are some of the rhythms or
Speaker:relationships that are there that you have that have led
Speaker:to y'all success? Yeah. Well, I think it's
Speaker:first really identifying what are the board responsibilities and what are the
Speaker:executive team responsibilities. So I think having a good understanding of
Speaker:that and how those two entities interact is critical
Speaker:on the board side. You know, that they are the keepers of the mission.
Speaker:They're the ones that have to make sure that the organization is
Speaker:staying on mission and not experiencing mission creed. The
Speaker:second thing that they are responsible for is fiscal responsibility,
Speaker:making sure that this is an organization that is financially
Speaker:sound. And because that will give longevity, that will
Speaker:allow the mission to continue long after current leadership
Speaker:is gone. And I think a third area would be making sure that the
Speaker:people that are a part of that ministry are well cared for, Making
Speaker:sure that and a lot of organizations, I think they leave that to the executive
Speaker:team. I believe that the the the board actually has a responsibility
Speaker:to make sure that all these people, there's 100 of people that make up an
Speaker:organization, in Convoy's case, 100 of thousands of
Speaker:volunteers, making sure that they're well taken care of.
Speaker:Those are just a few of the things. Obviously, they make decisions. They make fiscal
Speaker:responsibility type decisions on a regular basis, but I
Speaker:think it's caring for the people that's often overlooked. The
Speaker:reason that's such a good nugget for people to understand
Speaker:if you're a board member, I'm on the board of a few ministry organizations. You
Speaker:are also. And I think I've always looked at it as
Speaker:a fiduciary responsibility to, protect, oversee
Speaker:the assets of the organization. And I do think that a lot of
Speaker:people ignore the key asset of the people.
Speaker:So very powerful there. One other
Speaker:thing well, maybe not one other thing, but something that was just curious to
Speaker:me as I was reading about Convoy is I
Speaker:being kind of an operations guy, I'm a systems engineer, went to Georgia
Speaker:Tech, all that type stuff. I I look at an
Speaker:organization like Convoy, and I go, wow.
Speaker:They are doing a lot on what I would call a regular
Speaker:day to day basis, and then they have what I would call the
Speaker:response, the response,
Speaker:items that come up. And, and I guess even share
Speaker:some of the recent responses. But I would love for you to talk a
Speaker:little bit about overseeing, leading
Speaker:an organization that has day to day feeding
Speaker:x amount of people, that we're gonna do that regardless of what's happening in the
Speaker:world. And then a hurricane goes through and
Speaker:they're flooding in North Carolina and we wanna do something there.
Speaker:I don't wanna say 2 different mindsets, but there's 2 different operations
Speaker:in my eye mind that's going on there. Well,
Speaker:I think that's very astute, and that's accurate. You know, in our case,
Speaker:our disaster relief team is a separate division,
Speaker:and they are like a fire station. If we have
Speaker:dozens and dozens of trucks and different shower trucks and we have
Speaker:debris removal trucks and tractors, we got a lot of equipment, but
Speaker:it's like a fire station. They're ready to go at a moment's notice.
Speaker:Everything is gassed up. It's ready to pull out of the facility
Speaker:and they often do at a moment's notice. So I
Speaker:would say fire station. But here's the other piece of it I think that's really
Speaker:interesting is that we budget for the maintenance of those
Speaker:people and for the department and the equipment. But we don't budget
Speaker:for disasters. And here's the reason why, Tim, is because
Speaker:if you do that, you're going to be hoarding tens of 1,000,000 of dollars
Speaker:waiting for the next Katrina or the next Ukraine or the next,
Speaker:Helene and Milton. You know, you're gonna be hoarding 1,000,000 of dollars, and
Speaker:we don't believe that God has called us to do that. When our team is
Speaker:deployed like they are right now, they're in 6 states
Speaker:responding to Helene and Milton, and we don't want them worrying about
Speaker:money. Their focus is to lift up the name of
Speaker:Jesus, to elevate the local church, and to make sure that we're
Speaker:meeting needs, whatever that costs.
Speaker:That's really the goal, is go and do
Speaker:and represent Jesus in some very dark times, dark
Speaker:places. And we believe that if we are willing to do
Speaker:that, that on the back end, God will pay the bill. And he's been doing
Speaker:that for over 20 years since we've been involved in disaster response.
Speaker:And I think we're approaching it's near a 1000
Speaker:disasters that we've been involved in, everything you can imagine around the
Speaker:world and in the US. And I think last year alone was over
Speaker:70, 80 disasters that we responded to. But in
Speaker:H1, it's we're not we're not dependent
Speaker:on CNN, Fox, MSNBC. You
Speaker:know, we wanna be the first on the ground, and we wanna be the last
Speaker:to leave. Because a lot of times, organizations
Speaker:leave disaster zones because they can't raise any more money. We
Speaker:don't wanna be driven by money. We wanna be driven by obedience and need.
Speaker:Mhmm. That's good. Because one of the other things that come to my mind
Speaker:is that in general, my observation, you can tell me if this is
Speaker:correct, people will often
Speaker:give to the event, especially the major event,
Speaker:sometimes more diligently than they will
Speaker:for that child that needs food every day.
Speaker:What can you say about that just when I bring that up?
Speaker:It's very true, and that's one of the reasons why we have a global program
Speaker:division, and we have a disaster, response division.
Speaker:And the reason for that is that we want the people who give the global
Speaker:program who are really sustaining that initiative to
Speaker:continue and stay focused on that. And if they wanna give a one time
Speaker:gift to disaster service in response to hurricane Elaine or
Speaker:Milton, for example, that's beautiful. That's great. A lot of
Speaker:churches, a lot of businesses, do that. They give the one time
Speaker:gift. And we thank God for that, because it's that giving that
Speaker:sustains us for the long haul. I don't mind telling
Speaker:you, there are disasters that happened 2 years ago. Convoy of hope is
Speaker:still there. We are still helping people put their lives back together,
Speaker:and it's sustained by the generosity of people. If you're doing the right
Speaker:thing in the wake of disasters, elevating local church, lifting up
Speaker:Jesus, meeting needs, we believe God will pay the bill, and as
Speaker:long as you're willing to stay, he will sustain you. We've seen him
Speaker:do miracles. Convoy of Hope is an organization through the years that
Speaker:just has experienced miracle after miracle.
Speaker:And we like to say around here, hey. We're just following the miracles.
Speaker:That's what we do. So how you are
Speaker:following the miracles and somewhere along the way, you've been writing, it sounds
Speaker:like, a good portion of your life, but yet
Speaker:you write something that's titled What Really Matters.
Speaker:And and it's a book that I I like the subtitle is how to care
Speaker:for yourself and serve a hurting world. How do
Speaker:you reconcile caring for yourself and
Speaker:serving and caring for others? I used to think that caring for
Speaker:myself was unnecessary, that basically
Speaker:almost abusing myself and traveling all over the world and doing all I was
Speaker:doing that. That was a necessary sacrifice in, in order for
Speaker:the mission to be fulfilled. And I guess I got to the realization
Speaker:where I, I, again, through the health crisis I had at age
Speaker:50, I began to realize taking care of yourself is not an act of
Speaker:selfishness. It's an act of selflessness.
Speaker:Because the healthier I am, the healthier you
Speaker:are, the more you're gonna be able to do for other people.
Speaker:And God does not expect us to run with an empty
Speaker:gas tank. We're gonna be able to do a lot more for people when that
Speaker:gas tank is full. So I think that realization was
Speaker:one of the things that happened at age 50 that has really transformed my
Speaker:life. Who is who would you say this book is
Speaker:for? Did you have an audience in mind as you were writing it?
Speaker:I did. I'll tell you what was happening, and and this is really what provoked
Speaker:the book. Because of Convoy of Hope's rapid growth, you know, I think
Speaker:35 on the Forbes list, I was getting a lot of
Speaker:calls from pastors and business leaders and organizational
Speaker:leaders, and they were wanting to know the secret sauce. And,
Speaker:invariably I would say, well, it's the heart. You gotta make sure your heart's sound.
Speaker:It's it's healthy. If your heart is healthy, then God will build upon
Speaker:it. And they would say things like, well, I get that, but what are the
Speaker:organizational adjustments that I need to make? I said, no, it's really about
Speaker:the heart, and that's where it starts. So I figured, Tim, rather than me just
Speaker:being a broken record, I just wanna write a book, and I'll just slip it
Speaker:in the mail to them. So now when I get those questions, just send them
Speaker:a book. The cool thing is I believe you've done
Speaker:some ghostwriting and writing for people, but you also had someone
Speaker:that helped you out with this book. And I think is it Lindsay? Did
Speaker:it tell me a little bit about that process.
Speaker:Yeah. Lindsay's my oldest daughter. She's a trained lawyer,
Speaker:and, she is an amazing researcher
Speaker:and a gifted writer her own her own right. She's,
Speaker:someone I'm really proud of. And the whole process was
Speaker:that, she and I put the outline together and she goes after
Speaker:the research and everything from scriptures to other
Speaker:things that we cite in the book. Yeah, she's been invaluable. And this is actually
Speaker:the 3rd book we've written together. And we have a system in place. And
Speaker:I don't know that we're going to do another one real soon, but we've got
Speaker:a system in place and she's really a benefit. Excellent.
Speaker:Well, I wanna share my favorite chapter is chapter 9. I've actually
Speaker:got page 153 pulled up. And one of our
Speaker:topics we just have constantly addressed here
Speaker:on seek co create is kinda taking
Speaker:care of yourself. And it really you you kinda go
Speaker:into sleep and things like that, which I talked about earlier. I used to have
Speaker:a, a a very, unhealthy
Speaker:badge of honor of lack of sleep. Sleep's important to me
Speaker:now. Rest is important to me now. I'm I'm not ashamed to
Speaker:say I like a good night's sleep, and I don't mind a nap every once
Speaker:in a while. Hal, at 60, almost 61 years old, I'm I'm good with
Speaker:that. So, anyway, excellent job with the book. I'm sure
Speaker:people can find it in all the places, Amazons and all. Anything else about where
Speaker:people connect with you or the book that you wanna share? If
Speaker:they want more information about Convoy of Hope, they can just go to convoy of
Speaker:hope, dot org. We look forward to hearing from them. Excellent, Hal,
Speaker:and appreciate all that you've done and appreciate you writing this book. I think it's
Speaker:valuable for leaders. I think it's a message that they all need.
Speaker:Every leader I deal with, they need to slow down, be more
Speaker:obedient, be still and quiet. How we're seek, go
Speaker:create, those three words. And I know with your
Speaker:scriptural background, you can guess where they probably came from, but I'm gonna
Speaker:allow you to choose one. This is my final question. Seek, go, or
Speaker:create, and why? Oh, I I I love the word
Speaker:create. And I I used to think, Tim, that we that,
Speaker:you know, we could create simply by making organizational
Speaker:adjustments. But I I think the older I've gotten, the more
Speaker:experience I've had. I I think you invite, you know,
Speaker:innovation. You invite creation by having, the right
Speaker:mindset, the right heart. And certainly, that's what we try to do at Convoy.
Speaker:So I love the word create. I appreciate people listening in. It's been a great
Speaker:conversation of depth for people of achievement
Speaker:mindset, people that are leaders, or someone that may even wanna
Speaker:help and support the, Ministry Convoy of Hope. We have
Speaker:new episodes here every Monday. We are on YouTube. We're on all the
Speaker:podcast platforms. Until next time, continue
Speaker:being all that you were created to be.